Statistically Speaking, We’re Mostly Casual You Know,  I Have Proof

Posted 2nd Oct 2008 03:25 PM by SirCastor1

While noticing the recent developments with the raid bosses in the Burning Crusade I thought about how this could possibly affect the player base.  Is this merely in response to the lack of Mana batteries and Heroism/Bloodlust Stacking?  Or are they making a push to get more people to see end game raids?

I think this is a step in the right direction when it comes to bosses if it’s to enable more players to see the content.  I understand that “hard-core” raiding guilds will quite possibly be upset with this sort of thing for the simple fact that less people will be “earning” it in their eyes.

Personally, as a casual raider (1-2 nights a week), I think this and the 10-mans are all great steps in the right direction.  According to www.WoWJutsu.com, just over 5% of RANKED guilds have downed Illidan Stormrage. 

That number seems wrong to me. Statistically, there are over 10 million ACCOUNTS, WoWJutsu has 4.5 Million ranked TOONS.  That means if each person has only one ranked toon, and personally I have 3, that approximately 2.5% of people who play this game have seen Illidan.  Not to mention Sunwell.  So Illidan’s number is probably closer to 1%-1.5%. 

While I think that hardcore raiders should be rewarded with something, I do not believe it should be that they see content that 98% of us don’t. 

In my opinion PVP is more the “hardcore” part of WoW.  And by PVP, I mean Arena, which does reward the best of the best and that’s super.  But 98% of the player base can’t afford 6 hours a day/night, 6 days a week.  Many of us have busy lives, families and jobs. 

While I don’t believe ALL the content should be handed to us, I believe the curve of the Burning Crusade was too steep and after Kara, there should have been a few more 10-mans along the difficulty of Gruul’s and Magtheridon’s Lair and moving into TK/SSC level difficulty.  Blizzard did well with this with the addition on ZA, which was a superb instance, with a great mix for the hardcore and the casual.  The hardcore could pound through it and get the bear mount while the casual could take their time and spend an hour downing 2-3 bosses a week for fun! 

I’m hoping WotLK is a step in the correct direction and will provide more casual players with the fun and enjoyment of raiding at our level and still keep the harder, last few 25-man raids for the hardcore. 

As a player, do you feel that WotLK might cheapen the experience by easing up on the difficulty? Or is this a step in the right direction?




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Twoflower
Posted 02, Oct 2008 05:30 PM
(0)
 

[QUOTE=Archkender;4159848]
This results in two scenarios for those of us who are still obsessed:
1) Farm gold obsessively and buy T5/6 tokens from high end guilds JUST to see the content of the raid encounter.
2) Violate the ToS and go on a private server.

you could also honestly realise that you have to put in some work if you want to be at the edge of endgame. You cannot expect to get to experience everything a game has to offer if you only put in casual time. A raid group is like a sports team, it needs training. Alot of training.

You dont complain at the Fifa that they should nerf real madrid so your hobby soccer club can play champions league…

the real top end of the raiding guilds spend 40 to 50 hours a week when they have new instances to discover. They made a choice, they have set their priorities. They should also be rewarded.

You on the other hand made your choice. You prefer real life over spending night after night in a raid instance. You get your rewards aswell ( or so i hope ). You have a better job, a family, whatever you chose to get in real life.

You cannot claim the rewards of both worlds if you choose to focus on one. That is not just in WoW, that is in every aspect of life.

Reply
 
Twoflower
Posted 02, Oct 2008 05:30 PM
(0)
 

[QUOTE=Archkender;4159848]
This results in two scenarios for those of us who are still obsessed:
1) Farm gold obsessively and buy T5/6 tokens from high end guilds JUST to see the content of the raid encounter.
2) Violate the ToS and go on a private server.

you could also honestly realise that you have to put in some work if you want to be at the edge of endgame. You cannot expect to get to experience everything a game has to offer if you only put in casual time. A raid group is like a sports team, it needs training. Alot of training.

You dont complain at the Fifa that they should nerf real madrid so your hobby soccer club can play champions league…

the real top end of the raiding guilds spend 40 to 50 hours a week when they have new instances to discover. They made a choice, they have set their priorities. They should also be rewarded.

You on the other hand made your choice. You prefer real life over spending night after night in a raid instance. You get your rewards aswell ( or so i hope ). You have a better job, a family, whatever you chose to get in real life.

You cannot claim the rewards of both worlds if you choose to focus on one. That is not just in WoW, that is in every aspect of life.

Reply
 
SirCastor1
Posted 02, Oct 2008 05:50 PM
(0)
 

But in your argument with soccer, its against another team, not against the refs.  Hence why I said, arena is where the hardcore should shine.  And at the same time from a player standpoint, I don’t feel like I’m getting my money’s worth if I only see 20% of the raid content because it requires 50-60 hours of my life.  I think the 20-30 hours is plenty.

From a business standpoint, and I can tell they think the same because they ARE going this way, Bliz is making the game more towards the casual crowd.  And do you argue that only 1%-ish of people have downed Illidan? I’m sure they are not happy with that figure, as the money they make depends on the 9,900,000(=~99%) casual players to make their money, not the 100,000 (=~1%) hardcore players.  So as I am done with this discussion because I am new to this site and do not plan to anger the old gods of Azeroth. Bliz is leaning toward the 99% and plans to keep going that way, as you can tell with the 10 mans, the recruit a friend program, then XP drops and the ease of use and fact that you no longer have to roll a specific class to get a specific spot in a raid.

Reply
 
SirCastor1
Posted 02, Oct 2008 05:50 PM
(0)
 

But in your argument with soccer, its against another team, not against the refs.  Hence why I said, arena is where the hardcore should shine.  And at the same time from a player standpoint, I don’t feel like I’m getting my money’s worth if I only see 20% of the raid content because it requires 50-60 hours of my life.  I think the 20-30 hours is plenty.

From a business standpoint, and I can tell they think the same because they ARE going this way, Bliz is making the game more towards the casual crowd.  And do you argue that only 1%-ish of people have downed Illidan? I’m sure they are not happy with that figure, as the money they make depends on the 9,900,000(=~99%) casual players to make their money, not the 100,000 (=~1%) hardcore players.  So as I am done with this discussion because I am new to this site and do not plan to anger the old gods of Azeroth. Bliz is leaning toward the 99% and plans to keep going that way, as you can tell with the 10 mans, the recruit a friend program, then XP drops and the ease of use and fact that you no longer have to roll a specific class to get a specific spot in a raid.

Reply
 
SirCastor1
Posted 02, Oct 2008 05:50 PM
(0)
 

But in your argument with soccer, its against another team, not against the refs.  Hence why I said, arena is where the hardcore should shine.  And at the same time from a player standpoint, I don’t feel like I’m getting my money’s worth if I only see 20% of the raid content because it requires 50-60 hours of my life.  I think the 20-30 hours is plenty.

From a business standpoint, and I can tell they think the same because they ARE going this way, Bliz is making the game more towards the casual crowd.  And do you argue that only 1%-ish of people have downed Illidan? I’m sure they are not happy with that figure, as the money they make depends on the 9,900,000(=~99%) casual players to make their money, not the 100,000 (=~1%) hardcore players.  So as I am done with this discussion because I am new to this site and do not plan to anger the old gods of Azeroth. Bliz is leaning toward the 99% and plans to keep going that way, as you can tell with the 10 mans, the recruit a friend program, then XP drops and the ease of use and fact that you no longer have to roll a specific class to get a specific spot in a raid.

Reply
 
Archkender
Posted 02, Oct 2008 06:05 PM
(0)
 

I completely agree with you Twoflower. I don’t think i should get the same gear and abilities as you (and other hardcore raiders) for the choices that i made. However, I feel that we should not be penalized by not even SEEING the content at all. I mean, that IS what we pay for after all with each patch release.

The work around that I hope would be available is like the idea that GTA4 used: completing the game based on storyline will give you 67-68% completion. To get to 100%, you must fulfill additional requirements (much like hardcore raiding in our case).

My analogy to the soccer game you propose also slightly differs: I want to be able to play a FULL soccer game with my buddies against other soccer enthusiasts in a local soccer field. We won’t get the glory or rewards that Madrid or any hardcore soccer team but at least we can play.

Twoflower, no worries, i won’t ever use the stupid "zomg! raiding == no life!" argument because likewise, me not having the TIME to enjoy my own hobbies (such as WoW) would also imply that i have "no life" smile. "Having a life" should be defined as being able to do what you want to have do—nothing more smile.

Reply
 
Archkender
Posted 02, Oct 2008 06:05 PM
(0)
 

I completely agree with you Twoflower. I don’t think i should get the same gear and abilities as you (and other hardcore raiders) for the choices that i made. However, I feel that we should not be penalized by not even SEEING the content at all. I mean, that IS what we pay for after all with each patch release.

The work around that I hope would be available is like the idea that GTA4 used: completing the game based on storyline will give you 67-68% completion. To get to 100%, you must fulfill additional requirements (much like hardcore raiding in our case).

My analogy to the soccer game you propose also slightly differs: I want to be able to play a FULL soccer game with my buddies against other soccer enthusiasts in a local soccer field. We won’t get the glory or rewards that Madrid or any hardcore soccer team but at least we can play.

Twoflower, no worries, i won’t ever use the stupid "zomg! raiding == no life!" argument because likewise, me not having the TIME to enjoy my own hobbies (such as WoW) would also imply that i have "no life" smile. "Having a life" should be defined as being able to do what you want to have do—nothing more smile.

Reply
 
Archkender
Posted 02, Oct 2008 06:05 PM
(0)
 

I completely agree with you Twoflower. I don’t think i should get the same gear and abilities as you (and other hardcore raiders) for the choices that i made. However, I feel that we should not be penalized by not even SEEING the content at all. I mean, that IS what we pay for after all with each patch release.

The work around that I hope would be available is like the idea that GTA4 used: completing the game based on storyline will give you 67-68% completion. To get to 100%, you must fulfill additional requirements (much like hardcore raiding in our case).

My analogy to the soccer game you propose also slightly differs: I want to be able to play a FULL soccer game with my buddies against other soccer enthusiasts in a local soccer field. We won’t get the glory or rewards that Madrid or any hardcore soccer team but at least we can play.

Twoflower, no worries, i won’t ever use the stupid "zomg! raiding == no life!" argument because likewise, me not having the TIME to enjoy my own hobbies (such as WoW) would also imply that i have "no life" smile. "Having a life" should be defined as being able to do what you want to have do—nothing more smile.

Reply
 
Xeodus
Posted 02, Oct 2008 06:46 PM
(0)
 

An interesting issue for sure. I also have absolutely no qualms with high end raiding guilds getting significant gear rewards for all their effort - as you say, we could all technically drop everything we’re doing in ‘real life’ and become hard-core raiders if we wanted to. Content wise though, it does seem like the casual players are being a bit ripped off as whenever an exciting new raid is announced, it’s unlikely they’ll ever see it. So - I think it’s a great idea to tune down the raids that the hardcore have already ground through once there are new, more difficult targets available. Who knows…maybe I’ll even get to see BT one day raspberry

Reply
 
Xeodus
Posted 02, Oct 2008 06:46 PM
(0)
 

An interesting issue for sure. I also have absolutely no qualms with high end raiding guilds getting significant gear rewards for all their effort - as you say, we could all technically drop everything we’re doing in ‘real life’ and become hard-core raiders if we wanted to. Content wise though, it does seem like the casual players are being a bit ripped off as whenever an exciting new raid is announced, it’s unlikely they’ll ever see it. So - I think it’s a great idea to tune down the raids that the hardcore have already ground through once there are new, more difficult targets available. Who knows…maybe I’ll even get to see BT one day raspberry

Reply
 
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