I REALLY like this new "rest state" feature

[Galron Kincaid]

It kills pointless "level grinding" and encourages more "adventurous" activities such as questing, exploration, crafting and also the use of alt characters.


(above all, it'll filter out powergamer jackholes)


Who's with me?

[Vagrant]

It will also give me more reasons to play my other chars. I can see it now, changing chars every 5 hrs or whatever it takes.

But all these radical new features were so unexpected!

[Gavin]

It kills pointless "level grinding" and encourages more "adventurous" activities such as questing, exploration, crafting and also the use of alt characters.


(above all, it'll filter out powergamer jackholes)


Who's with me?

Not me!

Sometimes, I like to play for 10+ hours, because I have nothing else to do. If this stops me from doing that, I am gonna be pissed. Also, encouraging use of Alts isn't gonna do anything for me, 'cause if I am playing a character, I prefer not playing any other characters. As long as they give a good 10-12 hours or so, before you need to really rest, it'll be fine, though.

[powahhh]

Not me!

Sometimes, I like to play for 10+ hours, because I have nothing else to do. If this stops me from doing that, I am gonna be pissed. Also, encouraging use of Alts isn't gonna do anything for me, 'cause if I am playing a character, I prefer not playing any other characters. As long as they give a good 10-12 hours or so, before you need to really rest, it'll be fine, though.

if you think it better you will find it good even for 10h of play....
you won't take exp from killing pointless mobs...so in a 10h of playtime you can exp for 4-5 then do some quests or raise your tradeskill......so in 10h you will do more things and enjoy the game instead of get a strong headache from killing endless no-iq scripted mass of polygons.. :buddies:
this exp system is awesome IMO...cause will FORCE you to do more things instead of killing polygons and textures :innocent:

[Elevander]

So your telling my i'm a 'jackhole' because I like to play a game more than the average player? :scratch:

I think it's a stupid idea. There should not be a penalty for somebody who enjoys killing mobs for more than an hour. They should make the inns have some other benefit.

[powahhh]

So your telling my i'm a 'jackhole' because I like to play a game more than the average player? :scratch:

I think it's a stupid idea. There should not be a penalty for somebody who enjoys killing mobs for more than an hour. They should make the inns have some other benefit.

you find it fun to repeat the same actions for 15h or you prefer to do more things in 15h...what will bring you more fun and won't make you think when you close the computer...what i have done this 1x hours?

ps. you take less exp from killing mobs not from questing/tradeskill/exploring etc etc think deeper :)

[Kisenger]

I first want to see how long the time is before I go from well rested to rested and all the other ones. If it is around 9 or so hours then i don't really care. But if it is something around 3 to go from well rested all the way the fatigued then i have a problem with it.

[Kronious]

Ummm what about Skinning skills would it put a time limit on that skill because you have to kill mobs to skill up?

[Frenzied Bovine]

I'd like to point out a simple fact:

From what I read of the feature, anyone can get up to the "Normal" status simply by sitting around and relaxing. To get above "Normal" and into the "Rested"/"Well Rested" states, you have to go to an Inn (which is an awesome idea if you ask me.. a place to socialize, yes!!). People are interpreting this as a disadvantage, when really, it's not. Normal status means you get 100% of the exp.

What this REALLY means, IMO in terms of gameplay, is that..

1) For the most exp benefit, you should always "return to civilization" and save and exit the game at an Inn. It adds that little bit of realism, as opposed to a char running unrealistiaclly into uncharted wilderness and quitting for the night in the middle of nowhere. People will actually start in towns in the morning!

2) People who play in cycles gain an exp bonus that offsets the fact that they aren't levelling 24/7. People who play continuously at a fatigue level of "Normal" do not have an inherent levelling advantage over more casual players who quit at an Inn and play sporadically at a fatigue level of "Well Rested".

I think the second feature is a HUGE feature and should be commended. It essentially KILLS the need to be on the game all the time, constantly running the exp treadmill just to get ahead. It actively seeks out and rewards casual players, instead of the current system, which rewards committed players.

If you play non-stop you will still get acceptable exp (read: "Normal" fatigue level) provided you rest between battles. Blizzard isn't discouraging the committed gamer, simply encouraging the casual gamer.

Let's say a committed player players for say ten hours a day, and a casual gamer plays for two. Very easy to imagine that.

For those ten hours of play, the committed player gets bonus exp for some, and then normal exp for the rest.

For the two hours of play, the casual gamer gets bonus exp the entire time.

It's pretty obvious to see that this is a very good hook to entice the casual gamer into the world of MMORPG - by speeding up the levelling process of casuals. How two hours of bonus exp stacks up to ten hours of normal exp (with a period of bonus) is something that will no doubt be tweaked and adjusted. I for one hope that the exp bonus applies to quest rewards as well!

[/theorycraft]

[Galron Kincaid]

After all who, in his/her right mind, would want to grind mobs 24 a day in a game where the best exp comes from quests?

It's just plain stupid.


And another thing: who says that your char becomes exhausted in a few hours?

What if it takes the whole day to become exhausted killing mobs?


In that case, my gonads take really less to detonate, if all i do is just killin', killin' and killin'.


Your char exps when you play, and rests when you don't.......makes sense no?

[Frenzied Bovine]

Yeah. I'm not really getting a sense of the time it takes to get exhausted. By the sounds of it, it's going to be comparable to the recouperation period at an Inn, eg, 8 hours. It may well take the whole day to go from Well Rested to below Normal status (whereupon you start being penalized).

It makes sense, though. You get the most exp as soon as you log on (and start killing), which, like I said, rewards the casual gamer who plays sporadically.

Also, it's attached to exp gains, so if you just run around trading and peacefully exploring, you don't actually become exhausted and lose your exp bonus. It's not strictly a time-since-logged-on based thing.

There's also downtime between kills/exp to consider..

[Maraxus]

I really like this idea because hopefuly it will make some players step out of their computers and do something more healthy, or get some time to sleep and take a break of the game. It will also let the players plan their lifes around the game, instead of playing 7/24

[Spike-Rogue]

.......That is one of the crappiest thing i'v ever heard....blizzard u really done it this time....Coz i like most 1st-time players will 4 sure be using one character for a long while...

So i dont wanna wait or use another character until this resting crap is over i just wanna play the game at max and not do quests and becoz my character is tired doesn't get as much xp!

[Ablamar]

I can't believe that people who play 10 hours are griping about this feature. I think many agree that MMOs have been too much about grinding up. This is something that stops the grinding. And it doesn't even affect the quests. World of Warcraft is about quests, not about camping spawns all day. This is a true innovation of the MMO scene. Removing pointless camping that is what this feature is in for.

And saying that you can't play for many hours then is bull, you can do the quests which give you a ton more exp in the first place than simply killing mobs. And this feature also stops idiots from camping spawns constantly that are needed for someone to finish his quests. Some people can't finish a quest because some powergamers just have to stick to one area constantly without moving. You can make mobs spawn all over the place but you can only go so far with that option.

World of Warcraft is focussing on questing not on camping. Blizzard wants to take the annoying grind out of the game. You are getting way more exp for quests than for simply killing mobs over and over. This game is about having a story. There are already enough lame MMOs out there that allow you to kill mobs over and over again. Finally a company who has the balls to stop the lame camping. Without having this feature within no time people would stop doing quests all together. I am glad there is finally a game which is going to give a disadvantage to simply camping spawns.

[Frenzied Bovine]

All it does, spike, is give you a subtle hint that you should take breaks once in a while. Step away from the computer. Not exp 24/7 in the quest to be level 99 (or whatever).

By the way I heard rest state DOES have an impact on quest exp rewards..?

[Ablamar]

All it does, spike, is give you a subtle hint that you should take breaks once in a while. Step away from the computer. Not exp 24/7 in the quest to be level 99 (or whatever).

By the way I heard rest state DOES have an impact on quest exp rewards..?


The Rest state modifier only affects experience earned from killing monsters. It DOES NOT affect experience earned from QUEST rewards or other experience rewards in the game (such as future PvP experience rewards).

From the official WoW site.

[Erinyes]

To respond to the original poster, the way the system is described currently it doesn't really encourage what you're suggesting.

>It kills pointless "level grinding" and encourages more "adventurous" >activities such as questing, exploration, crafting and also the use of alt >characters.


Yes, it would kill pointless level grinding but I don't see why its necessary to destroy that for the people who like to do that. I am not a level grinder...I really think it's boring, but I have a friend or two who enjoy that so why screw them over with that?

As for encouraging questing, exploring and crafting. That's not entirely true now. Quests xp rewards don't take a hit but all the monsters you are killing in gather quests will make them worth less if you are fatigued. Dont' forget to go exploring you will inevitably have to kill monsters during your explorations so therefore it will be less rewarding xp wise at this point. To increase your crafting skills requires skill points, to get skill points, you have to kill things. SP's seem to be directly proportional to the amount of xp you are getting. So at this rate it actually discourages crafting unless you are well rested.

ANYWAYS, I am not against the Rest system as some people are. I think it's an interesting concept worth testing but at this rate, the powergamers have a right to be concerned. I am not one of them but as I mentioned I have friends who are so I am concerned they will have less fun and not play WoW at all, which sucks because I prefer to play with my pals. I hope Blizzard will be careful with this because it has the potential to really annoy the powergamers.

My suggestion would be to perhaps keep the bonuses on the Well Rested state but remove the penalties from the fatigued states. Or at least vastly decrease the penalty. They seem to really punish people who like to play for long periods of time.

[Maraxus]

The Rest state modifier only affects experience earned from killing monsters. It DOES NOT affect experience earned from QUEST rewards or other experience rewards in the game (such as future PvP experience rewards).

From the official WoW site.
If a game is in beta, everything is subjec to change, specially such an important feature like this one.

[Frenzied Bovine]

Whoops, you're right - I misinterpreted that WoW forum post. He says quest rewards are scaled up, not subject to resting exp.

Thanks for catching that one. Hmm. Now i'd guess it won't have anywhere near the impact I thought it would.

[Ablamar]

Yes it is always subject to change but this is what the system is right now. The system right now doesn't affect quests. And I think it will stay that way.

I believe Blizzard wants to try to get more people to actually do quests instead of camping. They want to break the trend of other MMOs that made those games such camping games to begin with. This is what most magazines have been talking about when it comes to MMOs not progressing because it solely focusses on camping.

If you would keep everything like it was, everyone will eventually stop doing the quests and start camping again. Then the whole quest approach of WoW will not have been worth it. This is a quest game and they have been saying this since the beginning. There are enough camp games out there. It is nice to see an actual trendbreaker for once.

[PSUChemGuy]

I don't see what the big deal is. It's not like there's a "penalty" for not resting. You get less than normal, but it's not like the game is taking any experience away or something like that. It's just like the experience choke on level 70+ characters in Diablo II, and in my many years playing that, I saw no one really complain about it.

I think it's a great idea...it doesn't discourage people who play a lot. I've been known to do that occasionally. Rather, it makes it so that maybe there won't be level 60's when I'm still running around at level 15.

[LJT]

I see at least one big problem with this ides, depending on time between states. For those players that play all the time, this "rest" idea will prompt them to either have multiple characters or explore other parts of the game. However, it does not affect those that play say 4 hours a day unless the time between state is very small. Someone playing such a limited amount of time could simply fight/level the whole time, go to an inn when they are done, and be ready to fight again the next day.

To curve this, I think it would be better to reduce both the time between stages as a player fights and as he/she rests. This way even those who play a limited amount of time will have to explore the game in its entirety.

[Agonistes]

I don't understand why all the pro-rest people say there is no real penalty since you get most of the experience from quests anyways. So why not just take away the negative penalties? Technically, scaling it down to 100% exp is really taking away half of it, anyways. With the exp needed to level being scaled up to nearly x2 of what it once was.. the 200% "bonus" evens out to about what the normal experience was in the last push.

This whole thing is less about experience for me and more about restrictions. I know plenty of people who like to grind, so why deprive them of it? I don't understand. I grind every now and then.. but I like to RP and to use tradeskills and explore, too. Why do people have to be forced to play one way or face the consequences? It's crazy stuff.


Edit: It also kills the fast-paced, less-downtime thing they were going for. Sure, you regen faster but now you can only fight so many things before they become worthless. While this may not be too bad for the low-levels.. I have a feeling the system will really make the higher levels a lot harder than they need to be.

[Doowa]

I don't see what the big deal is. It's not like there's a "penalty" for not resting. You get less than normal, but it's not like the game is taking any experience away or something like that.
Decreasing the xp earned for killing is indeed a penalty IMHO!

This penalty sucks IMO. I really don't see why I should be punished for playing the same character for 24 hours straight if I want to... it's my time, I pay for it and now I can't decide which character I wanna play?
In general I like the idea about resting, but instead of punishing those who don't rest you should only award those who do. We're actually some who likes to bash monsters for hours of no end - really, it's true ;)

[CKaz]

But since I'm not in beta I'll watch other people give it a chance..

Pure crazy powergamers might be a bit bummed.
However looking beyond that I think it really is a smart move.

Say uberd00d98173 found a great solo spot to grind his life away for xp.
Sure enough same said d00d will complain about boredom, lack of high level content, a disconnect with the game, and eventually leaving it all together.

Now said d00d can do that, but he might pause in his efforts to be the first level 60 undead warlock (or choose other likely powergamer combo of choice) or say at least 'Hey I gotta mix it up' after a 3/6/whatever hr straight grind.

Do some quests. Work a little on that tradeskill. Hey just like in RL, your character might not be at his best he can be. It does sound like normal can be sustained w/o a tavern hit. In EQ one never hung out anywhere, why the heck would you do that? This sounds interesting and might even have some of the solo uberd00ds making a friend or two, or seeing the sunlight in RL every 10 hours. Bad things? Maybe not.

Now I think Blizzard would be very silly to make this a fast penalty (ie playing for an hour, uhoh, your xp just dropped). Also I'm not sure the numbers will stick to that level (200%-100% is pretty big). But I think it has some potential, yes even more so than actually being paired up with another player in a 2-headed ogre body ;) And in general Blizzard isn't too silly too much of the time. So I look forward to hearing what testers think.. and REALLY look forward to hearing about Druids :)

CKaz

[zyrenthelichlord]

All of you who are saying it is restricting you, it is NOT! Yo guys are complaining that is stops you from hunting, stops you from playing 10 hours straight, it does NOT! where does it say that you must log off or stop hunting when you are fatigued? show me where it says that. You can grind and have fun grinding all day. You just wont get the max exp that you would be normally getting. Blizzard has not "restricted" you in any way. You are just restricting yourself by saying this is the only way you want to do it, and since its not the "optimal choice", you are complaining, because thats all your used to in an MMORPG.

You must realize that grinding IS NOT the OPTIMAL exp in WoW. They have been stating that for a long time, and they will never stop stating that. Quests are the optimal exp. If you want to grind, go ahead, no one is stopping you. You just wont get as good exp as something else. If you are a true powergamer, you would adapt and find the optimal exp with these changes instead of saying how the system is wrong.

[Isabeau]

I had a bad initial reaction to this resting idea, I should have learned a long time ago not to judge before actually reading the unedited information for myself.

On the surface, it sounds like this could be a pretty good idea. I'm hoping that the beta testers will actually test it and give some constructive feedback.

I've noticed a lot of the testers are throwing up their hands and saying they hate it before even trying it, but gradually I am seeing some feedback in the forums on how it's working from the people who are actually testing the game. I'll hold my final judgement until I get more info.

[Rthus]

This shouldn't be that harmful to powergamers. Think about it if 8 hours get you to well-rested and there are 24 hours in a day it would probably take no more that 24 - 8 = 16 hours to exp from well-rested to fatigued. I think everyone can deal with 16 hours of straight gaming (which is pretty sickening) and possibly even more.

[Agonistes]

I was expecting this retort. The whole "It's not restricting you! You can still do what you want." Well, no.. we can't. It is passively forcing you into playing one way. That's why I said, you can either play one way or face the consequences. It destroys the reason to play any other way, which in turns.. forces you to play the way they want you to. I reserve my complete judgement until I hear some really good run downs and opinions by the testers... but I can't see how any system like this one will benefit this game when it was doing fine before. It doesn't sound good on paper, how can it be good in game? Sure, I hate people that camp.. I grind every now and then, but I know how powergamers can be really annoying. I played EQ for a few years, I know what it's like. But what about people who have a day off from work and want to play? Why force them to play more than one character to have an "efficient"(by efficient, I mean STANDARD compared to the last push.) experience intake for their character.

In theory, it's a good idea and it's leaning towards some good thoughts... but the system itself is counterproductive in the end. I don't think the end justifies the means in this case. I'd rather just have it back to the way it was in the first push, just keep the experience needed to level doubled and leave the quest experience where it's at now. Why not just tweak mob experience in general so you don't get so much? I think making a big gap between quest experience and mob-killing experience will get the job done just as well without making players feel restricted to one style.

[Rthus]

I was expecting this retort. The whole "It's not restricting you! You can still do what you want." Well, no.. we can't. It is passively forcing you into playing one way. That's why I said, you can either play one way or face the consequences. It destroys the reason to play any other way, which in turns.. forces you to play the way they want you to. I reserve my complete judgement until I hear some really good run downs and opinions by the testers... but I can't see how any system like this one will benefit this game when it was doing fine before. It doesn't sound good on paper, how can it be good in game? Sure, I hate people that camp.. I grind every now and then, but I know how powergamers can be really annoying. I played EQ for a few years, I know what it's like. But what about people who have a day off from work and want to play? Why force them to play more than one character to have an "efficient"(by efficient, I mean STANDARD compared to the last push.) experience intake for their character.

In theory, it's a good idea and it's leaning towards some good thoughts... but the system itself is counterproductive in the end. I don't think the end justifies the means in this case. I'd rather just have it back to the way it was in the first push, just keep the experience needed to level doubled and leave the quest experience where it's at now. Why not just tweak mob experience in general so you don't get so much? I think making a big gap between quest experience and mob-killing experience will get the job done just as well without making players feel restricted to one style.
Actually it doesn't even harm you. It will only harm you if your on for over 16 hours a day (since it takes 8 hours to rest up). Think about it. Say overall the first 8 hours you play you get +50% bonus and the next 8 you get -25% bonus. You made still got a 25% bonus! Powergamers are NOT hurt because the postitive effects are greater than the negative. The casual gamer who plays for say 8 hours gets +50% bonus so he gets a little help. But overall the powergamer still made a lot more exp.

(Note: I know these figures aren't accurate they are just approximations.)

[Agonistes]

I would be agreeing with you under any other circumstances, Rthus. But, they double the experience needed to level.. so the new "bonus" is actually the regular amount of experience people got from mobs in the last push and now the normal amount of experience is half of what it used to be. So, if the experience wasn't doubled.. I'd agree on how this would even out the playing field for the two.. but right now it seems to just kick the snot out of power gamers and pamper casual players. I'm not a powergamer or a casual gamer.. I'm stuck somewhere in the middle.. so I don't think it will affect me all that much, but I still don't like the idea of being restricted like this in a MMORPG, mainly due to the fact that their big hype was how WoW was going to be much more fast paced and there would be a lot less downtime.. but now it seems like that isn't the case, 'cause you'll have to log out or play another character or two to keep this image of fast, streamlined killing and other such fun things in your head.

IMO, there's other ways to accomplish what they want without having to put in a system that makes some people feel restricted or that slows down the game for some players.

[vaelryn]

I have a question regarding this. It seems I'm hearing the main purpose for it is to encourage people to quest more. So why not decrease the xp earned from killing monsters and increase the xp earned from questing? This would encourage more questing and less borging. Or is there something more to it that I'm missing?

[Agonistes]

That's exactly what I've been trying to say. Why add in a system that makes you feel restricted from getting good experience when you can just tweak the experience accordingly so people don't end up feeling cheated? Seems like it would be a lot less work to begin with.

[spaker_man]

.......That is one of the crappiest thing i'v ever heard....blizzard u really done it this time....Coz i like most 1st-time players will 4 sure be using one character for a long while...

So i dont wanna wait or use another character until this resting crap is over i just wanna play the game at max and not do quests and becoz my character is tired doesn't get as much xp!
Well Spike, you have just volunteered as the first example of the exact behavior Blizzard is trying to discourage.

Maybe they should even add a performance penalty when yuo are fatigued and exhausted ... like your health can't refill to max ... or your dmg is slightly reduced and you hit less often. Honestly, if you've been swinging a sword for 24 hours straight you can't tell me you'll still be swinging it as fast as when you started.

[Agonistes]

Oh my geezus. Spaker_Man... You're a heretic.


You're talking about turning WoW into SWG.

You're evil!

[Wickedly_Evil]

Some people are awake in longer cycles, as Frenzied Bovine pointed out. Why are people who play longer being penalized? That is more or less what this is boiling down to at least to a degree. A person who plays longer gets a penalty for playing that long. That doesnt seem very fun.

This feature does not actually stop you from playing a certain way, but it does encourage such behavior. A stop sign has very little power to stop your car even with a collision. The fear of accident, traffic tickets, or higher insurance premiums on the other hand makes most of us stop.

This could be something of a clever marketing ploy. Players cannot level as fast grinding 24/7, so they will play the game longer. Hence Blizzard makes more money. Consider all the perspectives.

I think many more people would have less of a problem if there was no penalty for being fatigued. From my interpretation it seemed as if the states of fatigue did in fact eventually get to a penalty.

On the otherhand it is nice to try and make some compromise to people who can't play as long as others. Might not a 2 hour fresh bonus xp period make everyone happy? Say for example during that first 2 hours all monster combat recieved a 25% bonus. From what I hear about mining and herbalism you still kill monsters to get the resource you want.

If you want realism, make characters be able to die permanently. If you want realism, allow characters to die from old age. If you want realism, let people have permanent stat damage from very powerful attacks. Oh yes, I seem to have forgotten..... this is a game. I (will) play it to have fun. I don't like the idea that I shouldn't play one of my characters because he's tired. Personally I would rather have one really great character instead of several mediocre ones, so that throws out the alt idea.

[Gavin]

I'd like to point out a simple fact:

From what I read of the feature, anyone can get up to the "Normal" status simply by sitting around and relaxing. To get above "Normal" and into the "Rested"/"Well Rested" states, you have to go to an Inn (which is an awesome idea if you ask me.. a place to socialize, yes!!). People are interpreting this as a disadvantage, when really, it's not. Normal status means you get 100% of the exp.

It doesn't say anything about being able to sit around to gain up to normal... says you can log out anywhere other than an Inn, and only be able to get to Normal, and that's it... I hope that something like what you say is put in, though. Sitting around for a little bit to get to Normal status would be fine, making the resting optional. It SHOULD be optional, in my opinion.

[Agonistes]

I don't think people are really grasping this.. so I want to repeat it.

"Normal" rest is still only half the experience you should be getting. Because the experience requirements for leveling doubled, the standard for experience has doubled.. which means this 200% bonus we get from being well-rested is only, in turn, 100% of the experience.. which means we're only getting the equivalent of what normal kills got us in the last push... and now they tell us it's a bonus. In fact, it's nothing but penalties. Normal now, or the 100% is really only 50% of what we used to get from the creatures. So... the numbers may make it look big... but it is in fact, not a bonus at all.

[Gavin]

I don't think people are really grasping this.. so I want to repeat it.

"Normal" rest is still only half the experience you should be getting. Because the experience requirements for leveling doubled, the standard for experience has doubled.. which means this 200% bonus we get from being well-rested is only, in turn, 100% of the experience.. which means we're only getting the equivalent of what normal kills got us in the last push... and now they tell us it's a bonus. In fact, it's nothing but penalties. Normal now, or the 100% is really only 50% of what we used to get from the creatures. So... the numbers may make it look big... but it is in fact, not a bonus at all.

Oh... well, now I understand. Sounds like a pain in the ***. I wish they could've just left it alone...

Well, will have to wait to see what the beta testers think of this.

[spaker_man]

"Normal" rest is still only half the experience you should be getting. Because the experience requirements for leveling doubled, the standard for experience has doubled.. which means this 200% bonus we get from being well-rested is only, in turn, 100% of the experience.. which means we're only getting the equivalent of what normal kills got us in the last push... and now they tell us it's a bonus. In fact, it's nothing but penalties. Normal now, or the 100% is really only 50% of what we used to get from the creatures. So... the numbers may make it look big... but it is in fact, not a bonus at all.
Oh my lord, please stop talking about what a person "should" be getting or what is "normal" exp. Normal exp will be whatever Blizz decides it will be when they release the final game. Every patch during the beta is the new norm. Blizz is doing a bunch of "what if" scenarios and this is a great thing. Much better than say ... releasing the game THEN saying "oops, let's raise the exp reqs".

When the game is released and most characters are played the majority of the time in the "normal" rest state, then the well rested exp gains will be a bonus.

[DaemonJosh]

To be fair, someone playing 10 hours a day is still going to level FAR faster than a 'casual' gamer playing for short periods. It just means that if you are a "powergamer" aiming to max out your character, you'll have to optimize where you gain exp, eg from quests, exploration etc. And everyone else will be subject to the same conditions, so the people who hit max levels first will be those who DO play 24/7; you won't be being outstripped by "casual-gamer noobs".
Before the new push, all over this board were people worrying about powergamers levelling really fast and ruining the game. Well har-de-har, Blizzard did listen, see? Be careful what you wish for... it might come true.

[SoleSteeler]

I haven't read alll the posts here but:

been playing 2.5 hours, almost level 7 (from 1) and i am STILL gaining +200% bonus

[spaker_man]

I haven't read alll the posts here but:

been playing 2.5 hours, almost level 7 (from 1) and i am STILL gaining +200% bonus
Something tells me Blizz will have to tweak the system, but this makes sense if the state is based on the amount of exp and not time. Blizz just haas to play with how the formula works scaled to your level.

[Agonistes]

This coming from the guy who wants to turn WoW into another SWG... e.e

But, yeah.. No need to get hostile about it. I'm talking numbers here, not what I think players should get. If you do that math, Blizzard is telling us something that isn't really there. They talk about a bonus, but I thought a bonus entails extra experience..? Technically, yeah.. there's extra experience. But when you do the math, it evens out to the same amount of experience we got on a regular basis in the last push, which means that every tier below well-rested is, in turn, only a penalty. Maybe I'm just weird because I happen to like having a steady gauge of what kind of experience I'm going to get from things, I dunno. But to me, this is a very counterintuitive system that doesn't need to be there.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[SoleSteeler]

You should note tha tthe exp required for leveling has also increased by a LOT, so it's not like i'm FLYING through my levels or anything

[SpiritWalker]

Well I think 8 hours is a bit too long, this almost forces people who play much, like to play much or/and want to play much to be casual gamers, imo. Haven't seen the feature in action, yet but at the sound of it it needs some balancing in rest time. I thought Blizzard was gonna make this game for every kind of player seems to me they are secluding the powergamer like this.

[spaker_man]

I'm not getting hostile, I'm engaging in a spirited debate which is nice, especially since everyone in this thread seems to have some skill with logic and eloquence that is often lacking in most arguments on the forums.

What I'm saying is that when Blizz starts a new push or changes a feature in a patch during the beta, we need to stop thinking about what the system used to be. Forget about how much exp used to be required and simply look at the what we have now. All previous versions experienced during the beta will be meaningless when the game is released.

If we take what the current system entails, then the 200% is a bonus above the standard amount of exp which is obtained in a rest state of "normal". When the game goes live all players will have the same constraints with which to play. In some ways I pity the beta testers because they will have a slightly jaded view of the final game since they have experienced all the iterances in between.

[Jashug]

Questing already gave superior xp right? Why make farming mobs even less effective? Was people leveling on mobs alone really that big a problem? Beta testers? Im confuzzled.

[Agonistes]

I'm not trying to get personal or take any stabs.. but how many betas have you been in, Spaker? These beta pushes determine how the retail version will come out.. so saying previous pushes mean nothing is completely against everything a beta is about. This is what a beta is about.. They're trying something out. I think the old push was better. So for me, right now, that's my standard and basis to judge the game by.. and it's pretty much everyone's since that's the only thing to go on. So by the standards of experience in the past, we're getting screwed with the new rest system.

Try and translate what you said to real life. Let's just forget every lesson we've ever learned through experience and see how we handle ourselves through our daily schedule.


Edit: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. :] I think they should make that a new golden rule for beta's in general.

[Makoeyes]

I think the biggest problem here is that its a whole 100% bonus. I already mentioned in another thread that this should change soon. I'm not sure about how the times work yet, but reduce the benefit of exp to casual gamers. Its a double bladed sword. If you give 50% bonus to casual gamers you take 50% from gamers that play longer. I think double the benefit for simply logging off at a certain area is indeed bs. Maybe more around 10% bonus and change the exp you get from monsters to where it evens out. This is assuming the ammount you need for a lvl doesn't change again too. Say a gamer plays during the well rested time, and gets 110% the whole time. This would benefit them, and help them catch up to power gamers. Ok, now assume a power gamer plays for just as long, and keeps playing after hes no longer well rested while the other player just logs out at an inn. The power gamer only recieves a 10% penalty for playing longer. I'm not sure what blizzard will settle on, but i hope they keep this idea. I also hope they keep in mind that players that play longer SHOULD be stronger than those that play for only a few hours. This would just help even the playing field tho. Whats wrong powergamers,scared that casuals will be competition? I'm sure blizzard will balance it to where it benefits casual gamers while not hurting power gamers as much as it might at this moment. And if any power gamers still think its unfair that they take even a small penalty in exp for lvl grinding...if you like lvl grinding so much then that will just let you do it for longer, that is what you want right? All i can say is, don't be selfish if you get to play and have fun longer.

And another thought. Penalties usually decrease the fun. I can understand one for dying, but not one for playing long. Indeed, realistic that i couldn't swing a sword just as hard for 8 hours, but less fun if i have to deal with it in a game. And i'm 100% against any major exp penalty lowering it to below whatever they call they want to call 100%. And i'm even more against them making a stat penalty for fatigue...i'll just hope you were joking and let it go. To paraphrase frankenstein...flame bad.

[Doowa]

The thing I don't get is why ppl are so against those who might get penalised by this rest thing. Are the so called powergamers so evil? I don't get it...

Oh well, back to topic.
First off, a lot of ppl say that you should be happy with the xp you get for kill, but if that isn't the max xp you could get, why should you be content with it? Saying that normal xp isn't maximum is being narrow minded IMHO. You can't honestly believe that players of any kind won't make sure they are well restet before hunting.

Now picture this; I've been up early and gone hunting a lot of mobs. I've actually been hunting for so long that i've become 'normal' restet, not even caring to stop when I got to the 'restet' phase. So I'm deciding to hit the inn and take a break. Now right before I log some of my best friends log in and asks if I wanna join them in this big arse dungeon and get phat xp... but I know that I won't get phat xp cause I'm not restet which will only make the journee half as fun.
As Agonistes said earlier I'm also missing a solid argument why this is resting thins is so much better then how it was before. So far it seems that you have to hunt for a very long time before not being well restet thou, so so far the system doesn't bother me. I like getting more xp ...

[Frenzied Bovine]

I feel compelled to point out a few things.

1. If there was no "rest state" feature, the exp you get in the "normal state" would be the MOST you could ever expect to gain. So complaining that you're not getting "the exp you deserve" is completely misleading.

2. This is not a new feature to people who have played MUD's. On many that I used to play on, "monster lists" were a big feature. It kept track of what mobs you killed and how many. Too many of a mob, and you would not get any exp from it. Players were forced to go to new areas and clear them to cycle "exp rich" monsters off their mob list once the count on that monster got too high. I see this "rest state" being very similar, as a non-monster specific implementation of the feature. It's basically designed to bring the exp grind to a grinding halt.

3. You can always go play another character. Is it really so hard? I see another facet to this feature: it stops the power exp'ing of ONE character and promotes the diversity and playtime of multiple active characters.

[spaker_man]

Makoeyes, first off it's not catering to the casual gamer as everyone will get this bonus if they log out in the Inn. Second, playing longer til you get to "normal" is not a penalty, it's just no more bonus. Keeping your character above the fatigued rest level will just be a challenge to be dealt with in the game. I think it adds to the game, other people will disagree.


Agonistes, I can appreciate the process of comparing and learning from the past. What I am against is the attitude that since it was in the last patch it is what we "should" get. Compare the exp needed now to what was needed before ... fine that's a nice comparison, "do we like it or not?" that's testing. "does leveling take longer now or is it faster? or the same?" more testing and part of the process. Obviously Blizzard will weigh wthe feedback from it's testers and produce what they feel is the game that will be enjoyed.

But to say that now we are penalized most of the time and thatthe "bonus" is not a bonus, just doesn't make sense. The rest system is new to this push so we can't compare it to anything. Getting exp has changed so we will simply have to see how the beta people react to it.

[Gavin]

3. You can always go play another character. Is it really so hard? I see another facet to this feature: it stops the power exp'ing of ONE character and promotes the diversity and playtime of multiple active characters.

Not everyone wants to play multiple characters. When I play a character, I devote all my play time to that one character. I don't want to play other ones.

[Agonistes]

What do you mean? The bonus isn't a bonus.

I'll do the math with you right here.

We'll use 5/5 as an example of the standard experience in the first push (what you would get from killing mobs. The number on top is what you get and the number on the bottom is the maximum that you need.) Okay.. so 5/5 = 1. Now, the experience required to level was just doubled.. so now it's at 5/10. But, they added in the new "bonus" which doubles everything you get... now it's 10/10 which still only equals 1... So you're getting the same amount of experience as you used to get in the last push, it just looks like more. And then, even with that, it goes down after so long.. So anything below well-rested is going even below the standard amount you recieved in the first push.

[SoleSteeler]

What do you mean? The bonus isn't a bonus.

I'll do the math with you right here.

We'll use 5/5 as an example of the standard experience in the first push (what you would get from killing mobs. The number on top is what you get and the number on the bottom is the maximum that you need.) Okay.. so 5/5 = 1. Now, the experience required to level was just doubled.. so now it's at 5/10. But, they added in the new "bonus" which doubles everything you get... now it's 10/10 which still only equals 1... So you're getting the same amount of experience as you used to get in the last push, it just looks like more. And then, even with that, it goes down after so long.. So anything below well-rested is going even below the standard amount you recieved in the first push.

do NOT NOT NOT compare from previous pushes

almost every push, the amount of XP required to level has gone up, this is no difference

last push i leveled from 25-27 in like 7-8 hours, that's too fast

[Agonistes]

I agree that people were leveling a bit to fast in the previous push.. but I'm pointing out the fact that they haven't changed the experience system at all. Why not just tweak all the experience down and not make it feel like a player has to stop playing a game he pays for to be efficient? The system comes off like a waste of resources. Sure, you haven't seen it's effects yet... but you haven't been playing long enough yet to really catch it, from what I read. That and you've been taking regular breaks to post on the forums.


edit: My whole reasoning, personally, for not liking this system is the downtime it could cause.. or atleast, the slowing it could cause. The one big thing (other than that it's Warcraft.) that got my attention with WoW was how fast it was going to be and how little downtime there would be. I hated EQ for all the downtime and the loss of being able to solo after so many levels. I just want to keep the premise there, I hate downtime... I don't spend money on a game to sit and rest. I'll do that when I want to RP or practice my tradeskills, I don't want to be "forced" to do it.

[Johanass "Johan" Tassen]

Hmm. This debate is a little ironic, no? We're talking about a current Test feature and comparing it to a past Test festure. Sure, you get less experiance. I think that's the point. Blizzard is merely attempting to test, thus they change things and add new things and analyze data.

Give the people a chance and if by open beta the system is still to your dislike, then you'll have a chance to play in open. If you are still dissatisfied, then you can take up your argument again with Blizzard while open beta runs.

[WickedDeus]

Yeah, its beta right now and testing is fine. But if it does make it to retail I think its a stupid idea. I'm the customer so should I not be the one to choose how I spend my time in game? Why should I be FORCED to do something else if I'm having fun doing what I'm doing. Sure give others a choice to play the way they want but why punish "power gamers" for how they play?

From talking to Sole I doubt it will affect me much since I'm not that type of gamer but I still believe in freedom of choice.

[Xinhuan]

I don't think people are really grasping this.. so I want to repeat it.

"Normal" rest is still only half the experience you should be getting. Because the experience requirements for leveling doubled, the standard for experience has doubled.. which means this 200% bonus we get from being well-rested is only, in turn, 100% of the experience.. which means we're only getting the equivalent of what normal kills got us in the last push... and now they tell us it's a bonus. In fact, it's nothing but penalties. Normal now, or the 100% is really only 50% of what we used to get from the creatures. So... the numbers may make it look big... but it is in fact, not a bonus at all.

I'm sorry, I think you are wrong. Blizzard wants to reduce the experience points because many people feel the leveling speed is too fast in the last few weeks. it's a deliberate decision to make leveling up take longer than previously. You may see this as a penalty, but I see it as a change in game design to make leveling take longer.

And since it is a change in game design to reduce the exp gain from monsters, the bonus is in fact a bonus, because without it, it would only be normal. And normal means reduced exp gain compared to the previous version of WoW, but it's not really a penalty.

[Xinhuan]

I haven't read alll the posts here but:

been playing 2.5 hours, almost level 7 (from 1) and i am STILL gaining +200% bonus

To quote a Blizzard representative on the WoW boards:

"Yes, levels 1 - 10 will feel pretty similar to before rest states. Since we know all characters will be "well-rested" for most of their early levels anyways, there was no point to make levelling faster in this area. However, in later levels well-rested characters will level faster than the previous patch. " -Eno

That's why you are still gaining at the full speed, because I think they made it such that the resting system doesn't apply to level 1-10s.

[Xinhuan]

What do you mean? The bonus isn't a bonus.

I'll do the math with you right here.

We'll use 5/5 as an example of the standard experience in the first push (what you would get from killing mobs. The number on top is what you get and the number on the bottom is the maximum that you need.) Okay.. so 5/5 = 1. Now, the experience required to level was just doubled.. so now it's at 5/10. But, they added in the new "bonus" which doubles everything you get... now it's 10/10 which still only equals 1... So you're getting the same amount of experience as you used to get in the last push, it just looks like more. And then, even with that, it goes down after so long.. So anything below well-rested is going even below the standard amount you recieved in the first push.

It is a bonus, because it is in Blizzard's intention to reduce the overall leveling speed. It is a change in game design. Without this bonus, it would be even slower.

[spaker_man]

Yeah, its beta right now and testing is fine. But if it does make it to retail I think its a stupid idea. I'm the customer so should I not be the one to choose how I spend my time in game? Why should I be FORCED to do something else if I'm having fun doing what I'm doing. Sure give others a choice to play the way they want but why punish "power gamers" for how they play?

As the customer when the game comes out you will have to decide if it's a game you want based on what the release version is ... not based on what different versions it went through in testing. Once you buy the product that blizzard has produced you are free to do anything you want within the game dynamic.

To answer your question "Why should you be forced to do something when you are having fun doing something else?" .... Because that's how the game is designed.

Like saying to the cops "Why Should I be penalized for speeding? I was having fun" ... Why? because that's how the system works.

I really think this is being blown out of proportion, I believe that 90% of people will have no troubles keeping their character in the "normal" state with the occasional visit to town for resupply, 10 minutes chatting while at the Inn then back out to do some killing.

[Solaquin]

Blizzard has mentioned before that leveling is artificially fast (in what was the current build at the time) so that people could more quickly reach and test the higher level content in those pushes. They never intended to leave leveling as fast as it was in the first beta push, that would have been insane. I'm sure it will slow down again before they are done.

However, the rest state feature is clearly aimed at the casual gamer and does penalize those who play for a long time, there's really no way around that. By definition a casual gamer will rarely play long enough to get out of the fully rested state, and will always receive the bonus. The problem is, as someone mentioned above, it does discourage a particular way of playing the game, and I'm not keen on that. In one of this site's beta journals a tester mentioned they were getting roughly 25% of their exp per level from quests. That means the other 75% came from mobkilling. Now the exp per level has gone up, and the exp per quest has not kept step, so that means much more mobkilling per level. Even if the percentage had stayed the same it would have meant more because of the overall increase.

I don't like this system because I fall on the borderline between casual and hardcore gamers. On the weekdays I may only have an hour or so per day to play, so I spend that time doing crafting, short quests, exploring, and other quick solo activities. Then I like to take a Saturday and do some serious leveling up. The new exp system discourages this, because after a few hours my exp goes down. And it is discouraging, and not fun to watch your exp per kill go down when the only thing you can do about it is log off. I can't change my life schedule because of the game, and wouldn't if I could; why should that penalize me?

I would welcome some way of bringing rest state back to normal other than logging out or going back to an inn. Potions, spells, something. And even then, you are penalized and gaining half the exp of someone who just logged on. If you're at normal state and get into a party of people who are fully rested, you have to watch them proceed through the levels twice as fast while killing the same mobs you are. What's fun about that?

I've been playing games for a lot of years, and I'm pretty set in my gaming habits. When I make a new character I like to spend some serious time improving it and playing it; I'm not the sort of person who plays three or four characters at the same time, switching between them and spending a little time every day. I find that boring. After trying the new character for a few days or weeks I'll switch to a different one, which could be an existing one rather than a new one. I eventually settle into one character that gets the vast majority of my play time, and I only play others for a change of pace. I don't like the idea of having an exp penalty for playing this way.

[Black Knight84]

It is becoming obvious that Blizzard wants powergamers to power by questing. Personally I would agree with most people that this rest system will encourage all players to experience the rich variety that WoW has to offer. When I get the game I'm going to mainly do the quests but I am still going to spend countless hours with my mate exploring the world and killing random mobs as well. I feel that this rest system is also a reminder for when you need to start focusing on something else. I.e. I'm starting to get fatigued from exploring the wilderness and killing random monsters, so I might go do a few quests, hit the inn and call it a day. Makes sense to me.

[SoleSteeler]

level 10.5, just hit the 'normal' state

'rested' state i hit at 8.5 or so

11 hours logged today

[Jashug]

Was all of that farming mobs sole? Any quests mixed in?

[Miltonius]

A rant on freedom to play how i want to play!

Simply, regulating the way someone likes to play is a bad design. How is favoring one playstyle over another fair?

Those that like the rest feature seem to be the type of people(Sheep) who like to be regulated, who like other people making decisions for them. Which is good because leaders need plenty of followers and people who can't make decisions to direct. You like the rest system because it forces you to stop or forces you to do something else? You should be able be able to make that decision for yourself.

It's called choices. Use it.

I don't need a game i'm paying for to tell me how long or what way I should play. I like leveling ONE character. I like killing mobs. Some people don't, that's great! We have different opinions on what's fun. Don't tell me your way's better. I know my way isn't the best but it's my choice. Don't tell me the system will force me to do a variety of different things, I can decide for myself when i want to quest, chat or do trade skill. I know it's crazy but I can decide on my own when i want to do those things. It's called choices.
I could care less if someone is power leveling or not. It's a choice they've made and i have no right to tell them to stop because some people don't approve of that kind of play. If person puts in more time, they deserve to have more than me. Why make it the opposite?

An athlete who trains more is in better shape than an athlete who trains less. Why should i care if someone can level twice as fast as me? Good for them. If i wanted to i could do the same, it's nice to have the choice.

Maybe they should regulate the amount of each class there are per server, because we don't want too many of one type of class right? Oh and i know the rest supporters think this is also a great idea too. Then everything would be regulated and equal.

I'm not telling casual gamers to play more! Why should you tell me to play less? You should play how you want and i'll play how i want. What's with all these people jumping for joy to be regulated on how they play a game?

I'll probably still play wow, even if they keep the rest system, because overall blizzard makes great game but i hate, hate, hate be restricted in any way.
Wallace would have agreed.
Give me my FRREEEEEEDOM!!!
Thank you for the freedom to express my disapointment. ><

[SoleSteeler]

Was all of that farming mobs sole? Any quests mixed in?

everyone quests, you always have quests active that you should be working towards

yes, i was questing the whole time

i don't think i ever sat around farming with my level 28 warrior

[Galron Kincaid]

You know what?

I think that, with this move, Blizz wants to clearly state what type of players they want, and don't want, in WoW.

[Jondar]

You know what?

I think that, with this move, Blizz wants to clearly state what type of players they want, and don't want, in WoW.

I concur.

But the resting system *is* cool... but I dont think it should sap experience. I tihnk your damage, health and defense should decrease (Im sure someone else has said that, but I didnt feel like reading the 3 previous pages), and maybe spell-casting abilities, but not xp.

But it does also encourage you to play other characters more... I like that.

[Ablamar]

Why don't people start doing the math and figure out how much exp you need to get to the next stage? Then figure out what a regular mob gives for exp plus the bonus/penalty for that stage and figure how long on average it would take to kill the mob. Also take into mind some extra travelling time for moving to another camp and you will see that this system isn't so bad at all. When looking at the Blizzard list of how many hours you have to play to be considered a powergamer. And you know what I am considered a powergamer and I am not griping about this system because I am perfectly sure that the hours it takes to get in the penalty stage is a very long one.

It seems to be never good enough for hardcore gamers. What if you end up in the penalty stage after 10 + hours? There are enough hardcore gamers who have always been pointing at casual gamers that they don't want leveling to be faster for them. They usually want leveling to take longer so that not too many max levels are running around. This system will only slow them down slightly. I have seen the math but I am not entirely sure if those were the right figures, although I think they were. In the end it will only mean that you are slowed down by 20 %, which would be after a FULL day of playing. Well if you are playing that long, you have some mental issues.

People gripe way too much about a system they just don't understand. You are hardly being punished at all in this system.

===========================

Just a note here, reading here and the Blizzard boards, my take on the system is as follows:
20000XP at 200% (So 10000XP worth of Kills) to go to 150%XP
(assumption follows)
20000XP (at 150% so 13334XP worth of kills) to get to 100%
20000XP at 100% to get to 50%
20000XP at 50% (so 40000XP worth of kills) to get to 25%
25% never ends if you never rest I assume.


So lets see for 83334XP actual XP work I get 80000XP okay seems like a small loss.

However look further... (About to do some fudged math, number will be rounded up in all instances.)

20000XP took 3.5 hours at the 200% rate (5800XP an hour worth actually 2900XP per hour gained via fighting, same as bonus), so it will take how long at the 150% rate? About 4.5 hours to gain the needed 13334XP actual. Then how long at 100% normal? 6.8 Hours, so so far for the 8 hours rest I can get almost 15 hours with NO PENALTY.

Sounds good to me.

And I actually get the Bonus of about 17000XP from those 15 hours.

And if I rest for the 8 hours after the first 8 hours of playing and do it again I gain that same 17000XP onus for every Straight 8 hours I play.
===================

That is the part I have read. You can maybe remove a few hours in the total but that still doesn't change the fact that it is truly not as bad as most people seem to think.

It also showed that the people who are griping on the WoW beta board that they haven't been playing the beta for some time either. One of the developers completely owned a beta tester who was constantly whining about this feature while he didn't even log on in the game the last 3 weeks. Don't believe too many of those betatesters who are constantly posting. Wait with your conclusion till after a week when true results come in from people who are actually playing. On paper something can always sound bad but in practice these things are usually not so bad at all and often are even better.

[Doowa]

I concur.

But the resting system *is* cool... but I dont think it should sap experience. I tihnk your damage, health and defense should decrease (Im sure someone else has said that, but I didnt feel like reading the 3 previous pages), and maybe spell-casting abilities, but not xp.

But it does also encourage you to play other characters more... I like that.
So instead of losing a bit of xp you would rather risk dying in a pull... now that's an even larger penalty for playing a lot with 1 character *shrugs* :uhhuh:

[Ablamar]

I concur.

But the resting system *is* cool... but I dont think it should sap experience. I tihnk your damage, health and defense should decrease (Im sure someone else has said that, but I didnt feel like reading the 3 previous pages), and maybe spell-casting abilities, but not xp.

But it does also encourage you to play other characters more... I like that.

I dislike your idea since that truly forces you to do something else and the rest system doesn't. With the rest system you can still fight but with a system that just reduces your stats after a while, you get weaker and weaker. That system will truly piss off any powergamer. While the rest system now isn't that bad for powergamers at all when they start to understand how it truly works and how long it actually takes to get out of normal stage.

[Doowa]

Fair enough ablamar, but again if this change really isn't that bad or makes any real change, then why put it in the game to start with? Why can't it just be as it was, why try to take away ppls right to choose how and when to play? I still don't get it *shrugs*

[Galron Kincaid]

Frankly i think the only people who are truly damaged by this system are those kiddies who never....EVER do anything besides farming.

and in 50% of the cases that's in order to grief, and-or slaughter lower level people in PvP.


Did u take a look at the General Discussion forums over at battle.net?


They say the rest system sux because they want to farm, and even if questing gives MORE exp than farming, they won't because they hate quest.


People like that just don't belong in WoW, and personally i think they're better lost than gained.


Lineage 2 is the game for them: porno-elfs, wannabe-cool manga boys, and vast identical lands packed to the brim with mobs to kill, and kill, and kill.......ad infinitum.

[WickedDeus]

As the customer when the game comes out you will have to decide if it's a game you want based on what the release version is ... not based on what different versions it went through in testing. Once you buy the product that blizzard has produced you are free to do anything you want within the game dynamic.

To answer your question "Why should you be forced to do something when you are having fun doing something else?" .... Because that's how the game is designed.

Like saying to the cops "Why Should I be penalized for speeding? I was having fun" ... Why? because that's how the system works.

I really think this is being blown out of proportion, I believe that 90% of people will have no troubles keeping their character in the "normal" state with the occasional visit to town for resupply, 10 minutes chatting while at the Inn then back out to do some killing.

Thats just it....if their designing a system that punish me for be able to play longer I may not be playing. Its like working overtime for less pay..who the hell would want to do that?

The difference between this force rest system and speeding is that it harms no one if a power gamer levels faster but speeding can kill. To me it just seem like Blizzard gave into the whine by so called casual gamers who don't want to be "left behind" by power gamers. Casual gamers has less time to spend on the game but still want to be able to be the "first to kill this" or "do that" thus they whine to find a way to hold back power gamers. In the end though(unless Blizzard limits gameplay to 4 hours a day, lol) power gamers will still be the "first" to do this or kill that.

Like I said to Sole on our clan forum this most likely won't affect me as I'm not a power gamer but the principal of it is just wrong.

[WickedDeus]

Frankly i think the only people who are truly damaged by this system are those kiddies who never....EVER do anything besides farming.

and in 50% of the cases that's in order to grief, and-or slaughter lower level people in PvP.

Please explain how "kiddies" grief someone by farming? Also in pvp the point is to win, right? In a war-type game do you usually win by killing people?

Did u take a look at the General Discussion forums over at battle.net?


They say the rest system sux because they want to farm, and even if questing gives MORE exp than farming, they won't because they hate quest.


People like that just don't belong in WoW, and personally i think they're better lost than gained.


Lineage 2 is the game for them: porno-elfs, wannabe-cool manga boys, and vast identical lands packed to the brim with mobs to kill, and kill, and kill.......ad infinitum.

So this game should only be for those that want to quest, quest, quest?

[Galron Kincaid]

I said that they farm IN ORDER TO grief.

Not all of them of course, but a good portion.

Being higher level gives them that power.


And because they are apparently too stupid/masochist to undertake quests, farming is the only way they can go up.

(if questing gives MORE exp and item rewards than farming....who other than a stupid would farm?)

And the rest system kills farming, so they don't like it.


Of course wars are won through battles where people die.

But it is another matter if someone level 60 enters a newbie area and starts slaughtering everyone (in a war, that's a legit action of course.....but i consider it lamerism, or "griefing" and i think i'm not the only one).


If WoW becomes a game only for those who like to quest, well that's perfectly fine by me, since i'll be questing all the time.

But that's just my opinion.


the main thing is: just because you can't farm non-stop the entire weekend and don't feel like questing......there's a million other things you can do.

-exploring the world

-chatting at an inn with your eventual buddie/s

-pumping up your tradeskills

-gathering stuff

-crafting stuff to sell/use

-leveling up an alt

If none of the above appeals you, then i'm sorry but WoW is really not the game for you.


(providing they don't remove the rest system....and i really hope they don't)

[Agonistes]

Whoa there, Galron..


Don't compare masochists to the b.net kids.... You'll make us weirdos look bad.

Geez. :rolleyes:

[Spike-Rogue]

Well u guys that flamed me *cant be stuffed getting ur nosey little names*

Yes i may sound like a lvl grinder but i dont wanna spend a week of playin 2 gain 5 levels! i mean come on i wanna see some high leveled content and try to get 2 hero level b4 i get so bored of it i cant be stuffed playin anymore *under 5 months*...

[stuyScale]

This is a joke. People don't understand at all.

Powergamers will level faster than casual gamers. This isn't about casual gamers being left behind. I don't care how you slice it. 10 hours of gameplay with 2 hours of bonus XP is going to net you more than just 2 hours of gameplay with all of it giving a bonus.

Second, with all the people whining (actually, seems like just one) that it's not really a "bonus", and you're still getting normal XP even in the well-rested state. You're wrong.

Let me point to the AC2 closed/open beta. They wanted to test mid-higher end content faster, so they allowed beta testers to roll level 20 characters. Makes sense right? After all, the low level stuff was already beaten to death, time to make sure the higher end content is working.

Do you think people whined during release that : "omfgz0rs we have to start at level 1?". Does everyone realize how inane a complaint like that would be?

Lastly. While I am not a powergamer, I'm certainly not a casual gamer. I'd probably be able to log 35 hours in WoW a week (3 on weekdays, 10 weekends) if it were fun. Does this rest state business bother me? Not in the least bit. It's relatively obvious how to get around it, after all.

If you know you're going to be playing 10 hours. Spend your time in Well Rested/Rested state killing mobs. Once you drop to normal, finish your time doing Quests. Log off and repeat each day.

This is under the assumption that you can't level on Quests alone at higher levels. If you can, then the penalty for Fatigue is practically non-existant, so who cares?

[Frenzied Bovine]

Powergamers will level faster than casual gamers. This isn't about casual gamers being left behind. I don't care how you slice it. 10 hours of gameplay with 2 hours of bonus XP is going to net you more than just 2 hours of gameplay with all of it giving a bonus.


True. But to play devil's advocate for a minute, the little guy will be helped. If the rest state system wasn't in place, powergamers on the exp grind would leave the casual player far behind. Now, it won't be so bad. There will still be a gap - probably quite a large one, actually - but there is a little bit of a bridge to it.

If someone's smart and plans how they play, they'll race ahead anyway so what's the big deal?

I think PA's arcade sums it up best. It's their game, they can do what they like even if its boneheaded. Don't like it? Don't play.

[Solaquin]

I'm sure people did whine about starting at level 1 after AC2 beta, people will complain about darn near anything if let to.

SoleStealer took 10.5 hours to hit normal state, so unless the system gets tweaked to make this time a lot shorter I'm not going to worry about it for now, though I think I remember him saying in another post he had some rest in the middle of that.

Here's a silver lining though; it puts a serious nerf on bot leveling. For those who don't know what that is, a bot is a third party program which can automatically and repeatedly carry out a series of actions. Bot leveling is setting your character up in an area where nothing is likely to kill you and letting your bot program automatically kill things while you are off doing other things in real life (work, sleep, whatever). The exp per kill is lower than what you'd get fighting mobs that are an actual challenge, but it's exp you don't have to work for and adds up when you leave it running for several hours.

I'd be willing to bet that anyone who continuously kills like that, with no pauses for going to town or even afk to the loo, will hit their penalty state a lot faster. Heck, they might even start at or near fatigued, most times level bots are set up to run after you've done your active playing for the day. Presumably Bliz will have an anti-botting policy, and half of small exp is not likely to be worth the risk of being caught for many people.

[WickedDeus]

I said that they farm IN ORDER TO grief.

Not all of them of course, but a good portion.

Being higher level gives them that power.


Again, please explain how someone being higher level is able to "grief" someone a lower level in a non-open pvp "carebear" game?


-exploring the world

-chatting at an inn with your eventual buddie/s

-pumping up your tradeskills

-gathering stuff

-crafting stuff to sell/use

-leveling up an alt


What if this is not how you like to play? Then what? Sure you don't have to buy the game.

Think about it this way....

Your following Wheel of Time ALPHA and in alpha you can level by questing or farming. Everything looks really cool and you really want to play because questing sounds really fun(in other words its fun for you). Well the game finally goes into beta and with beta they put in a bunch of cool new patches but also this new exp system. This new system makes it so that if you want to quest you can only do it for a few hours before the exp you gain from questing drops and keeps dropping till it gets to a point that it will be much faster to just farm. Would you be piss and ***** about it?

That is almost exactly what happened in WoW but the other way around. Before you can quest to gain xp or grind"farm" and no one was punish(or force to do something else) for doing either. Why change a system that is friendly to both. In that I mean, until you can tell me how someone "farming" to gain levels quicker can grief someone else in a NON-OPEN PVP game. Remember that someone will always be a higher level then you and "real" power gamers will always do it faster via "farming" or "quest grinding".

[SoleSteeler]

Guys, whether this is a debate or not, try not to get too worked up over it

i played 14 hours last night and never even hit past normal

[Ablamar]

Okay how about counting all the bonusses of the rest stages and detract all the penalties. Eventually you will have a break even point that way. So that means that you are not gaining but also not losing anything. From just simple calculations that point is probably after 15 hours of playing. So all that time you are not losing out on anything at all. I truly don't understand why so many are whining about a system they just don't understand and only read about.

Look at Solesteeler. He may only do quests but grinding would probably only mean a few less hours in overall compared to his playstyle. And Solesteeler didn't even go into the penalty area after 14 hours of play. But that penalty doesn't start to be a true penalty till you have truly gone under 100 % gain OVERALL after the amount you have played.

Based on solesteeler's playstyle I have calculated that it would probably take him, to drop under the break-even point of 100% exp gain over the whole day, 23 hours. Yes it would take him 23 hours before he would gain less than 100 % of exp overall for his day played. Oh yea that is really bad. COUGH

Of course the powergamer would do this faster, but it will probably still be 18 + hours for them as well. I truly don't understand why people are making a fuss about this system when it takes such a long time before you are actually noticing a decline in exp gainage overall.

[Uraj]

Again, please explain how someone being higher level is able to "grief" someone a lower level in a non-open pvp "carebear" game?
They do it by killing certain mob spawns that are required for quest completion. Quests that require X items to show proof of a kill or items that can only be collected from killing certain mobs. If there are no mobs for you to kill because said level 60 killed them, you can't complete the quest. They don't grief you by killing you, they grief you by taking away your ability to finish the quest.

[deadlymist]

I'm gonna just say this about the "rest state" feature that was recently implemented. I flat-out refuse to pay a fee to play WOW and not at least get the option to choose if I want to spend 8 hours socializing,etc. or go out in the "field" to complete my quests. As far as playing another character to remedy this "wait" time; there is a reason that the character is called an alt. I will not start an additional character on my account until my primary is of significant level capacity. I sincerely hope that Blizzard finds some other way to deal with this situation of penalizing my exp. "table" or I feel that the last six months of anticipating its release will be for naught.

[WickedDeus]

They do it by killing certain mob spawns that are required for quest completion. Quests that require X items to show proof of a kill or items that can only be collected from killing certain mobs. If there are no mobs for you to kill because said level 60 killed them, you can't complete the quest. They don't grief you by killing you, they grief you by taking away your ability to finish the quest.

If thats the case then ANY higher lvl character can do this so why take away the ability to farm?

[Galron Kincaid]

They just felt like taking it away.

Period, i guess.

As the very wise Tycho said, it's their game.



And u're right Stuy, all it takes to get "around" the rest system is some basic planning.

Unfortunately there's a surprisingly high percentage of d00ds out there who just won't.

[WickedDeus]

Okay how about counting all the bonusses of the rest stages and detract all the penalties. Eventually you will have a break even point that way. So that means that you are not gaining but also not losing anything. From just simple calculations that point is probably after 15 hours of playing. So all that time you are not losing out on anything at all. I truly don't understand why so many are whining about a system they just don't understand and only read about.

Look at Solesteeler. He may only do quests but grinding would probably only mean a few less hours in overall compared to his playstyle. And Solesteeler didn't even go into the penalty area after 14 hours of play. But that penalty doesn't start to be a true penalty till you have truly gone under 100 % gain OVERALL after the amount you have played.

Based on solesteeler's playstyle I have calculated that it would probably take him, to drop under the break-even point of 100% exp gain over the whole day, 23 hours. Yes it would take him 23 hours before he would gain less than 100 % of exp overall for his day played. Oh yea that is really bad. COUGH

Of course the powergamer would do this faster, but it will probably still be 18 + hours for them as well. I truly don't understand why people are making a fuss about this system when it takes such a long time before you are actually noticing a decline in exp gainage overall.

Depends on playstyle. On the weekend I can start playing at 4pm Friday for about 15hrs. Take a 2-3hr nap and get up to play for about 15hrs and repeat till Sunday afternoon. Base on current info I'll be past the break even point in my second 15hr play session.

[WickedDeus]

They just felt like taking it away.

Period, i guess.

As the very wise Tycho said, it's their game.



And u're right Stuy, all it takes to get "around" the rest system is some basic planning.

Unfortunately there's a surprisingly high percentage of d00ds out there who just won't.

Please explain a plan to get around the rest system without playing an alt. if your playstyle is for a multiple long session with small sleep time.

Your right though its their game but we are their customer and they depend on our money to keep their game running. Otherwise why have beta and ask for feedback and opinion?

[Dunbar]

I really don't understand the whole "well now casual gamers won't be as far behind power gamers in level" argument. Sure, this may apply for the initial release as everyone scrambles to explore and level fast. But later, there will be a whole mix of levels from 1-60 on the servers at any one time. Who cares then if Joe Powergamer gets his alt to level 60 in far less time than Joe Casualgamer? Does it really matter?

I just started playing D2 again, and my old account has expired. Now I'm WAY behind in levels and items found. So, what, should there be a system to quickly level and equip players in WoW that join the game 6 months after release?

My point is there is no real race to the top except initially when the servers go live. So the whole argument about casual players being behind just seems silly; once characters get to high levels, people will be starting new characters, and there will be players of all levels on at all times. So no one is really being left "behind."

That being said, I think the rest system is silly. I'm not sure what it's really for, except perhaps to stop bots or to keep people from playing characters in shifts 24/7. Bots should be found and banned because they ruin the game...nothing like computers farming 24/7 to get that uber drop, like pindle runs in D2. And if people want to play in shifts 24/7, who cares?

My problem with the rest system is that I don't understand what they are trying to achieve. I wish they'd put explanations in the patch notes...such as "we don't want to be involved in a lawsuit with players who play 24/7 and die in front of their computers. To discourage this behavior, we have implemeted" whatever. Let us know what problems you are trying to address. Because at the moment I don't know what the problem is, and the possible problems I can think of don't seem to be problems to me.

[Galron Kincaid]

That basic planning, quoting Stuy, is simple:

- Farm 'till you drop to Normal

- go questing

No need for an ALT at all.

[SoleSteeler]

I've /suggested them making normal last the most time, compared to rest/well rest

so if you take 'short breaks' you will always be at normal at least

[Kaar Wyldstorm]

You won't always be normal by taking short breaks though. You're either at well rested or you need the full 8 hours of rest to recover at all, which will put you up to well rested if you're at an inn, or just normal if you're outside.

That's the only part of this change I disagree with. It's supposed to simulate sleep for your character and yet you need a full 8 hours 'sleep' 2 hours after you woke up from the last 8 hours?

Wish I was in the beta to /suggest this, but I'll post in case anyone who is likes the idea. Your rest state decreases the way it does now (assuming they have it implemented so that 'normal' is where you'll spend most time), but the recovery changes from the current all-or-nothing to a diminishing returns type. If for some reason you've fallen into exhausted (the worst state) it would take 30 mins of rest to get to fatigued, then 1.5 hrs to get to normal, then 2.5 to get to rested, and 3.5 to get to well rested.

This still leaves a similar system where each block of rest time must be done solidly, for example if you're at normal and rest for 4 hours you'll get to the rested state but if you stop resting you'll still need the whole 3.5 hours once you start resting again to get to well rested. However, it breaks up the 8 hours meaning and gives a chance for those smaller rests to have an affect on your character which to me is more realistic

[SoleSteeler]

Hmm, well it says in the patch notes if you're not in an inn when you logg off, you will return to 'normal' if your in fatigue mode

so im guessing in 'normal' xp mode already, it will just 'recharge' that bar, yes?

[WickedDeus]

That basic planning, quoting Stuy, is simple:

- Farm 'till you drop to Normal

- go questing

No need for an ALT at all.

A plan for people who do not want to quest?

What if this was the other way around and I said:

-Quest 'till you drop to Normal

-go farming

Remember also with the new changes to the skill system if your just quest your not going to be able to improve your skill.

[WickedDeus]

Hmm, well it says in the patch notes if you're not in an inn when you logg off, you will return to 'normal' if your in fatigue mode

so im guessing in 'normal' xp mode already, it will just 'recharge' that bar, yes?

It said - Players who log out anywhere else in the world will only regain energy up to the normal level.

So if your anywhere but and inn when you logout no matter how long you are gone you will not go past Normal.

[PSUChemGuy]

If for some reason you've fallen into exhausted (the worst state) it would take 30 mins of rest to get to fatigued, then 1.5 hrs to get to normal, then 2.5 to get to rested, and 3.5 to get to well rested.

I rather like this idea. Alas, alas, I can't do anything about it apart from give an endorsement. Eight hours is a little extreme, the more I think about it, but the concept is still interesting. It is still a test, so I'm sure that some changes will be made, as numerous people have already said.

[Tsumikiro]

I, for one, think it is a great idea. Sure the power gamers get a kick in the butt, but they need to be doing other things than sitting infront of a computer screen...

And this promotes the play of multiple characters. Im guessing that by the time the experience you are earning from mosters is down to crap, another character might be fully rested and ready to go.

And, they have said that the tallents and skills are ALL still being reworked, changed removed, and some are being added. So whats to say that you cant invest in a talent that will allow you to have much higher levels or endurance. You get tired much slower, and you rest much faster. But, then again, that can take away from your character in the long run, taking talents away from other areas.

The only thing that i dont like, is this does but a damper on the overall speed of the game. I want to be able to blast my way threw as many mobs as posible without having to worry about a timer going on in the background.

We will have to see though, this is a great idea that just seems to need a little work. It could have great potential and REALLY set WoW apart from the crowd.

[Galron Kincaid]

A plan for people who do not want to quest?



As i already said, hardhead.


If you don't like questing, then don't ****ING come to WoW.

[WickedDeus]

As i already said, hardhead.


If you don't like questing, then don't ****ING come to WoW.

Wow flamebait is that the best you can come up with? Don't like it don't play? What a troll.

Why don't you use your oh so mighty intellect to come up with a helpful idea? All I'm trying to ask was why take a viable playstyle option out of an oh so promising game.

Also as I've stated before this in no way affects me as I'm not a power gamer as I'm more in the middle.

[Galron Kincaid]

Then if it does not affect you why did you jump my opinions like some sort of rabid dog?

Troll my a$$, you started playing harsh so don't whine and fling this "flamebait gnegnegne" krap at me for responding the same way.

[Agonistes]

Though I hate to admit it, Deus has a point when it comes to this issue. All I've been hearing from the pro-rest people is "If you don't like it, don't play it." How would you feel if you had one mindset of how the game was going to be and how you were going play it.. and then all the sudden the system changes and you can't play the way you want? You wouldn't be happy, that's for sure. So... maybe people should stop talking about it as black and white and telling each other to shut up and yada yada yada.

The system has it's pro's and con's. There is no way around the fact that it is a limiting factor to some playstyles that have just as much place in this game as any other style. But Blizzard is smart... they listen. Maybe we could help and actually talk about compromise or someway to satiate both sides of this arguement.

I'm just getting kinda tired of talking about it like this. I've seen the error in my early ways on bashing the system.. even though it won't really effect me. But it still sits a little sour with me at this point, with the penalties and the fact that no matter where you are at in the rest tiers.. you HAVE to wait 8 hours. It could use some tweaking, definately.

[Galron Kincaid]

You are right Agonistes, it definitely needs some tweaking in order to be accepted by a wider mass of people.


But i remain for the "hard" line: i really like this system (as the topic title suggests :) ).

And all of my guildmates like it too.


So my opinion does not change: there are a million and one things you can do besides farming.

Unfortunately some people just won't realize that.....or worse yet they do realize it but just blindly keep breakin' ballz on Bnet.....and here too.


(weird: when i posted the news about the rest system on MMORPGitaly, the VAST majority of the replies i got was 100% positive)

[SoleSteeler]

It said - Players who log out anywhere else in the world will only regain energy up to the normal level.

So if your anywhere but and inn when you logout no matter how long you are gone you will not go past Normal.

i am aware

kinda sucks you have to log out

maybe you dont have to...

im saying like, say im 500 xp off hitting fatigue, i go to town, do some trading, maybe do some exploring, tradeskilling, 2-3 hours, then my bars is charged up to max of normal

this way people wont complain that they aren't always getting the bonus

OR

they could just take away the less XP tired/fatigue mode but keep the casual gamer bonus

OR

i still don't really like the fatigue system, i really enjoyed it before when i didn't have to 'worry' about my bar... now i am saying to myself (sometime) should i kill this tiger? is it even worth it? it'll just bring me closer and closer to the next state...

so i would like to see them just remove it, but i will be 99.999990% fine if they keep it in....

[Spork_Lord]

It said - Players who log out anywhere else in the world will only regain energy up to the normal level.

So if your anywhere but and inn when you logout no matter how long you are gone you will not go past Normal.
Really? Now I really dislike the rest system. Sure I have no beta, and living in Europe will never see the game before release, and can't test it, but it sounds like a horrible idea. Blizzard is really forcing me to play a certain way.

[Matuse]

Galron, post your feelings if they implemented the "Adrenaline" system, instead of the rest state, which functions exactly the opposite.

If you have gotten X amount of XP in the last 5 real life hours (this is checked every 15 minutes, so people who just sit online AFK don't get the benefit), then you become charged with adrenaline and recieve a 100% bonus to earned experience.

[WickedDeus]

You are right Agonistes, it definitely needs some tweaking in order to be accepted by a wider mass of people.


But i remain for the "hard" line: i really like this system (as the topic title suggests :) ).

And all of my guildmates like it too.


So my opinion does not change: there are a million and one things you can do besides farming.

Unfortunately some people just won't realize that.....or worse yet they do realize it but just blindly keep breakin' ballz on Bnet.....and here too.


(weird: when i posted the news about the rest system on MMORPGitaly, the VAST majority of the replies i got was 100% positive)

Thats just it. Before the system you still could do what you wanted to do. You want to quest for 16hrs? Fine quest. You want to farm for 16hrs? Fine farm. Rememeber your statement? The reason you mostly like this system is because it filters out power gamers.

It kills pointless "level grinding" and encourages more "adventurous" activities such as questing, exploration, crafting and also the use of alt characters.


(above all, it'll filter out powergamer jackholes)


Who's with me?

I then asked you whats wrong with power gamers and you said they are bad because they grief. So I ask how they can grief you in a carebear mmorpg(carebear being non-open pvp, which is not bad its just what people call it). You said they go around killing lowbies in pvp(which, if your low lvl maybe you shouldn't pvp? Again its not an open pvp game so they can only kill you if you ask for it). Well anyone higher level can do that not just people who farm and like you said so yourself there are stills ways to play non-stop just by questing. So what does this really stop? Real "power gamers" and shift players will have a plan and will be higher level anyway unless Blizzard limits playtime for everyone to a set number of hours. Other then that there is really no way to stop them. Who this does hurt is the weekend warrior. Those that don't play that much during the week but when the weekend hit they play multiple 15-16hr sessions with only a nap period of 3-4hrs. So if this doesn't stop a power gamer then tell me again why you like this rest system? Remember also that they nearly double the amount of xp needed per lvl. Why in a Massive Multi-player Online Role Playing Game would you want to force everyone to play the same way?

So unless you can give me another reason the only thing I can see as why you would like this system is that you are a casual gamer. Because of real life(family, job, etc.) you can not match the hours these power gamers can put into the game. People still being people though you still want to be able to be the "HERO(you know the ones who kill this first and get that before anyone else)" sometime and this system helps you keep up. This is the only reason I can see unless your some kind of communist who wants people to play the game the way you think they should.

Remember also that if you only do quest to get your xp and don't farm at all you will get fewer skill points to play with in the new skill system. That is because you ONLY get skill points by killing monster and though I'm sure you'll kill some monster while questing you won't kill as many as though as those who farm.

Most of my guildmates don't like it though some like Sole(this is Nivek btw if you haven't realized, lol) are ok with it if they leave it in.

[Galron Kincaid]

And that's perfectly true, WickedDeus.


I like the rest system because i'm a casual gamer, i'm a casual gamer because i have many other things in real life to do. And the majority of my friends are casual gamer too (except for weekends or vacations.....that's when we all turn into powergaming inhuman beasts :D ).


I'm not some "sort of communist" who wants everyone playing his way.


Blizz does it for me

[Roland Of Gilead]

Ok we can extrapalate 2 pieces of information about blizzards intetions.

They want to pander to the "casual" gamer:
They apparetnly have succeeded at this. I, and many other casual gamers, are rather pleased by this system. This system allows me to play in 3- 4 hour stents, log off until another available play session and still be above normal. I will never surpass a power gamer in this fassion. However this does close the gap considerably.

They want you to play THEIR game:
Their are quite a few games out there that allow hack and slash farming for hours on end. From a business perspective (whitch is where blizzard is coming from) that type of game does not hook you the way blizzard wants wow to hook its gamers. As one kills mobs and gains exp. they grow tierd of thier enviroment and see a new game that presents this type of play that has better graphics and new weapons and a new fix/hook. I belive that blizzard doesnt want thier games to snare you for a month or two until you find a new game. They want you hooked. The best way to do that is to integrate you into the storyline and the game universe. Thier game is setup for you to do that through quests not kill endless amounts of poor AI's. So they implement a system that guides you into the game.


To the people who say that they are being forced to quest via the xp penalty, I say that befor in all the mmo's I have played I was being forced to farm because quests gave to little xp. It is true that this game had a happy medium however blizzard has other intentions (see point 2).

IF you indeed dont like the way the game is dont buy it or play it. I have done this to three mmo's out there and undoubtedly will do it to this one. When Heavy Assault was the only way to get kills in Planetside I quit, when Hibernia was only onpar in magic with ablion in DAoC I quit, when traders in Earth and Beyond got combat nerfed into oblivion I quit. If you dont agree with what the way a game is going quit and keep an eye on it. If they get the message and change things then go back in if not then you have saved youself money and aggrivation.

So if this rest feature goes live and you quit, well... :hanky:

I have a couple of questions:

Does this feature affect quest xp? If so that should be changed no bonus or penalty.

Is it a hard xp cap for each break point based upon level?

[Galron Kincaid]

- No, it does not affect quest points. So once you're exhausted you can go on questing and still get full XPs (of course if the quest involves killing mobs, you'll get less XP for each individual mob, but the final reward won't be influenced).

- Not sure i understood your second question, but the amount of exp it takes to get you from well rested to rested DO changes, based upon level.

The limit is displayed as a small indicator on your exp bar, so you know exactly how long it'll take before you start getting tired.


As far as it goes, you can do all the first few levels and still be Well Rested.

[DaemonJosh]

As I see it, Blizzard are trying to address a problem that affects many MMORPGs. Large amounts of EXP are required to advance in levels, in order to slow down the levelling of "Powergamers", preventing them from maxing out their character in a matter of days and getting bored of the game fast.
The problem with this is, it dissuades people who have less time to invest from playing. Those with jobs/family/social lives, who can't afford to spend more than a few hours a day gaming will get tired of advancing pitifully slowly, as they are working within a EXP system designed for powergamers.
The rest system has the potential (with some tweaking) to even out the ground a little. While powergamers will still be rewarded for extended play, those with less time can still feel like they're making progress.

[icutyoubad]

Look at this thread I just ressurected. No, I'm not a priest, but I thought it would be fun to bring something back to life only to have it die again immediately. Muahaha!

The new "rest state" feature is indeed a nice touch. Way to go, Blizz!

[Valas Azuviir]

Look at this thread I just ressurected. No, I'm not a priest, but I thought it would be fun to bring something back to life only to have it die again immediately. Muahaha!


We're not that keen on threadnecromancy, unless it's without good reason. This wasn't such a good reason. :annoyed:

Please refrain from doing so again.