Thrall Falls, Massive Alliance Raid on Orgimmar

[OneMadOgre]

A sad day for the Horde, Thrall, mighty Warchief, leader of the Horde, vangiusher of Demon Lords, Arm of the Prophet, son of wolfrider Durotan lies dead in his chamber.


Thrall has fallen in his chambers in a glorious battle with the dirty, nasty Alliance. Screenshots coming. I was on as a 8th level troll warrior, so I wasn't much use in the battle, but as a loyal member of the horde, I at least caused lag to hopefully help kill a few of those raiders.

http://www.visi.com/~onemadogre/raid1.jpg
http://www.visi.com/~onemadogre/raid2.jpg
http://www.visi.com/~onemadogre/raid3.jpg
http://www.visi.com/~onemadogre/raid4.jpg
http://www.visi.com/~onemadogre/raid5.jpg
http://www.visi.com/~onemadogre/raid6.jpg
http://www.visi.com/~onemadogre/raid7.jpg

A mighty battle. The Horde was horribly unnumbered and less leveled than the alliance attackers. The Alliance did a good job getting this raid together, many, many attackers and a successful rally and attack strategy led to their victory. In essence it was very similiar to other MMOs, where numbers dictate victory.

[OverKill]

He died? lol

Are they gonna let that stay in for the release? hehehe...

[Viperx11]

****, Thrall and Varimathras respawn right? This doesn't affect storyline or anything I hope...Bah, idiocy, Blizzard will just make them respawn. No biggie....

[Ablamar]

They will just simply respawn. It would suck if they didn't. Just because someone is lucky enough to be able to kill such an important NPC, should not have an effect on the lore. I do hope however that Blizzard will be tweaking the guard system some more. They need way more guards in the cities. It is way too easy to kill the hero NPCs at this moment. And this will only get worse once players can get to be heroes as well. A level 90 + NPC really should mean way more than it does right now.

[Antonidas]

i want to see thralls dead body, its not that i hate him, hell he is what got me interested in orcs. i just want to see ok.

[Tyran_Harasvelg]

Weeee, go alliance.

I bet a gnome layed the finishing blow. :lol:

[Ulkieab]

Yay go Alliance!

[TheCrawlingChaos]

Altar of Storms. It costs quite a bit, but it is a way to bring the fallen back.
By, the way, how much damage could Thrall do? Did he summon spirit wolves or something?
Currently, can you cast buffs on an allied NPC and is it afected by totens?
I doubt Thrall would fall with a healing wand nearby.
:)
By the way, Is Cairne in the game already?

[Grond_HellHammer]

SHHHH, dont say anything about this, we have to cover it up.... we will get thru this, we will get a new "thrall" and the allience just killed the royal hot dog vender..... geez!

[vid]

/me gets out the sticky plasters and glue "he'll be fine" ;)

[Zann the Defender]

So, I am with the alliance, and we will never kill the true Thrall. He has enough shamanistic powers to make duplicates of himself. But our king has enough wizards to make endless duplicates of himself as well.

[OverKill]

They said they were working on all the main heros like Thrall so it's safe to assume that this "filler" thrall will be replaced eventually but the true thrall with all his abilities, strengths and much more gaurds and defenses. He'll probably be almost impossible to kill by the time of release.

[Drakeon]

This is probably because theres literally like 3 to 4 times as many lvl 40-50 alliance as Horde due to their quests and zones (AKA they aren't forced to be ganked in hillsbrad).

Alliance will get theirs soon enough, come release (or open beta?)

[Scorch]

The lag was ridiculous, it's just impossible to move to do anything.

[inatey]

how did they get past the npc gards?? how many alliancees were there?

[PlagueBearer]

About fricken' time is all I have to say. Thrall should have, would have, died in TFT.

[Drakeon]

About fricken' time is all I have to say. Thrall should have, would have, died in TFT.

Go away Horde hater :p

[Morphina]

The lag was ridiculous, it's just impossible to move to do anything.
was it server based lag...or graphical lag ?

[inatey]

was it server based lag...or graphical lag ?
scorch: and what connection do you have?

[Pongle]

Holy Blue donkeys thats wierd.

Oh well, hopefully they'll remove that sissy thrall and the orcs will turn back into badass demons again. (This whole shaman thing is PISSING ME OFF)

[TwilightAbyss]

Oh yes... more gasoline on the flames.

Better have your visual settings in the minimum when rushing into a warzone like that :)

[Doowa]

Very interesting. I was under the impression that the main cities was impassable to the enemy. As the only place totally safe. Guess I thought wrong. Very interesting indeed ;)

[inatey]

this is on the hord v alliance race war server i tihnk is is possible on that server

[Scorch]

It was both server lag and system lag. The WoW engine doesn't seem to be particularly efficient with regards to loading new character graphics. If I'm walking down a road and a group of Alliance are coming the other way, their graphics usually won't load till they're on top of me. I think maybe Horde graphics are cached at a higher priority than Alliance models? I don't know. When you've got a raid going with 150 people in the area then basically my computer just stops dead for 1-2 minutes. Granted my low mem video card is the real bottleneck there but I've talked to lots of people with decent systems, they run everything else perfectly smoothly but the huge stress of loading a raid group has them experiencing the same sort of hanging effect.

[Graav Wolfsong]

Well I expect Horde players to be pretty pissed off and looking for revenge. You should find Jaina and pillage that bootie. :thumbsup:

[Lord Chad]

Yep the same thing happened to vamirathas.You do know that right know they dont have their spells and skills so that is why they are easy to kill but come release it will take the whole alliance army.

[AgeOfAbnegation]

Buhahaha - just a foreshadowing of what is to come :evil:. All horde lands are belong to us.

[Lord Chad]

Buhahaha - just a foreshadowing of what is to come :evil:. All horde lands are belong to us.


Umm in case you havent relized the allaince outnumbers the horde 3 to 1 or something like that and it is easier for the allaince to level up.

[RootY-"D34d-Ra1n"]

Hopefully the horde will strike and waste all of the Alliance....

[Mordrack]

It only goes to prove..
1. Horde city suck to defend, too many chokepoints.
2. Horde is vastly outnumbered.
3. Horde is significantly lower level (on average) then Alliance.

[Daitanis]

Go Alliance! It doesent matter that we outnumber you three to one, its the pincipal of the thing, thats all.

[Joro]

I have a question .. is there no way to remove charachter names..?

Then the screenshoots people would take.. would look better!

[Dwutlenek]

I bet it is possible to turn off names...
But why the hell do they scale... names should be same size no mather if u far or close...

[AgeOfAbnegation]

Umm in case you havent relized the allaince outnumbers the horde 3 to 1 or something like that and it is easier for the allaince to level up.

How is it easier for the alliance to level up? Is this in terms of mobs, etc?

[Viperx11]

Unfortunately the Horde seems vastly underpowered.

[barbarian_bob]

Hey, if you've ever played WC3:TFT you'd know that Jaina and Thrall are friends. Anyway that wasnt any great victory for the Alliance, it was just a lost little boy they killed, not Thrall... :evil:

[Xinhuan]

How is it easier for the alliance to level up? Is this in terms of mobs, etc?

It is easier for Alliance to level up because their zones for questing outnumber the Horde in the mid-levels. Also, their quests are more numerous and better designed.

Not including the starting level 1-10 regions, for Alliance, there is Duskwood, Redridge, Loch Modan, Westfall, Darkshore for reaching level 30, all of which contain around 20 quests each.

For the Horde, there is only Barrens and Silverpine Forest, which while they do contain 20 quests or so, the remaining regions near the Horde areas do not match up. There is Stonetalon Mountains (4 quests), Thousand Needles (maybe 5 to 10 quests), Hillsbrad (quote a bit of quests here BUT it is a lvl 30 Alliance region... killing level 20 Horde)... and guess what? That's it.

When you hit level 30, only then do your quests start to fill up your quest log again, mainly from Booty Bay (Level 30-40) where the same quests are available to BOTH factions. Same applies to Gadgetzan and the nearby port (lvl 40-50).

All in all, the Horde faction is currently subpar, especially with Undead specific killing spells and items (yes there are certain specific items that add damage to Undead, not much, like 8 damage, but it's still biased). There is also Undead tracking, which a lot of Alliance players get. There is even a Alliance helmet (not sure if the Horde can get it), that allows you to see invisible players and targets as a passive.

[Viperx11]

That's pretty sad...Horde sucks from what I hear. Blizzard keeps claiming "they're working on it". :rolleyes:

[OneMadOgre]

Well, it is a beta.

It is definitely more difficult for a Horde character to level to high levels, but at the same time, there was a great deal of coordination and displince in the raid last night. No need to downplay that the Alliance put together a good raid.

Here is the /suggest part.

That being said, I'd like to see it more difficult and I'd like to see more variety in what the guards can do. Bring them in as groups similiar to the raiding parties that spawn, so that you'd get a platoon of reinforcements instead of onsie/twosie.

For example. Instead of spawning a level 45 protector for a NPC, spawn a guard patrol with two grunts and a shaman that begin to patrol the town, or region. Raids continue? Spawn more patrols, or bigger ones. Three grunts, a shaman, and a mage maybe. You get the idea. The AI should be smarter. If Ogrimmar is under attack, deal with the threat as if you were repelling an invasion, not swatting at flies. You'd sent in reinforcements as the PCs, but scouts and patrols should be NPC and grouped.

[Strimen]

As well as the main assault force heading to the Orc lands. A small detachment of Pallys and support units where sent to Brill, outside of the Undercity. To give the undead and nearby horde allies a distraction. Although the alliance forces at this battle were vastly out numberd by the deathgaurd they managed to kill of some important NPCs and cause havok for the undead.



I have screens but no where to post them.

Strimen

[OneMadOgre]

We'll host them Strimen. http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/?type=0

PM me if you have trouble with it.

[Lord Chad]

It is easier for Alliance to level up because their zones for questing outnumber the Horde in the mid-levels. Also, their quests are more numerous and better designed.

Not including the starting level 1-10 regions, for Alliance, there is Duskwood, Redridge, Loch Modan, Westfall, Darkshore for reaching level 30, all of which contain around 20 quests each.

For the Horde, there is only Barrens and Silverpine Forest, which while they do contain 20 quests or so, the remaining regions near the Horde areas do not match up. There is Stonetalon Mountains (4 quests), Thousand Needles (maybe 5 to 10 quests), Hillsbrad (quote a bit of quests here BUT it is a lvl 30 Alliance region... killing level 20 Horde)... and guess what? That's it.

When you hit level 30, only then do your quests start to fill up your quest log again, mainly from Booty Bay (Level 30-40) where the same quests are available to BOTH factions. Same applies to Gadgetzan and the nearby port (lvl 40-50).

All in all, the Horde faction is currently subpar, especially with Undead specific killing spells and items (yes there are certain specific items that add damage to Undead, not much, like 8 damage, but it's still biased). There is also Undead tracking, which a lot of Alliance players get. There is even a Alliance helmet (not sure if the Horde can get it), that allows you to see invisible players and targets as a passive.

Thanks for backing me up becuase I was going to say.That is just what everyone from the forums on world of warcraft are saying.So you deserve a beer. :drink: :buddies:

[SirMoogie]

This is exactly what I don't want. There should be no way, unless intended by Blizzard through some event, to kill the main characters. It just seems wrong, even if they respawn. I planned on playing Alliance, but I have a deep respect for many of Blizzard's characters, even Arthas, and think it should be in Blizzard's hands to determine their deaths. Just make all the leaders level 999.

[OneMadOgre]

I think they should be conquerable. It should just take amazing players, amazing talent and organization to pull it off. For all of the planning and organization that happened, last night it was too easy.

But that may change when the Horde levels catch up to the alliance levels as well.

[Jedi_Bob]

Wow. I can't believe the Alliance did it. A few weeks ago the Alliance was full of people with no sense of organization. But this...this is a show of force...and intelligence. I am still deciding which side to play on, but the way things are going...I dunno. The only thing keeping me from bustin' Alliance butt are those evil undead. How can you have a conversation with someone with no lower jaw? :lol:

[Viperx11]

I wouldn't call the Forsaken evil.

[SirMoogie]

I think they should be conquerable. It should just take amazing players, amazing talent and organization to pull it off. For all of the planning and organization that happened, last night it was too easy.

But that may change when the Horde levels catch up to the alliance levels as well.

I don't know, it just seems so unrealistic and meaningless then. Here Blizzard spent years creating these characters and what are they besides high level content to be killed/exploited over and over again. Imagine if Arthas was a respawned high level monster in Northrend (sometime in the future). Sure it might be meaningful to those who just want the super drops, but from a roleplaying perspective it is silly and ultimately ruins any credibility to the story Blizzard developed.

[Booyamos]

I don't know, it just seems so unrealistic and meaningless then. Here Blizzard spent years creating these characters and what are they besides high level content to be killed/exploited over and over again. Imagine if Arthas was a respawned high level monster in Northrend (sometime in the future). Sure it might be meaningful to those who just want the super drops, but from a roleplaying perspective it is silly and ultimately ruins any credibility to the story Blizzard developed.

Well it is still beta so there are a lot of things to still change. I basically think of it as thrall's body double, the current thrall doesn't have any of his skills or powers.

And right now the alliance is way more powerful. Playing as the horde was fun, but the alliance side is much more polished and has a lot more quests and quest areas. I have found it to be way easier to lvl on the alliance side. I don't play on the pvp server yet, i will do that later.

Bliz says they are working on the horde side and i would think by all the questions they keep asking about a lof of the zones that a lot of them will be reworked come next patch (whenver that is).

That being said Go alliance for being that organized. Even though Orgimmar is never really crowded... can you imagine how many hord people it would take to storm Stormwind? and that lag would kill half the people's sytems.

[WidowMaker]

I wouldn't call the Forsaken evil.

so what would you call them?
Good? Neutral? Poor Undead creatures? i dont get it..

[AgeOfAbnegation]

But this...this is a show of force...and intelligence. I am still deciding which side to play on, but the way things are going...I dunno.

Follow me.. and I'll show you more conquests than you can imagine :yep:..

[Echod16]

was it server based lag...or graphical lag ?

server based, scorch has a good comp

anyhow, at least Cairne wasn't hurt :P

I'm sure thrall slew at least 30 guys

there should probably be someything in which when you die by a Major NPC, you're sent back to your hearthstoned graveyard, but as if you were ressurected you'd be able to respanw immediatly

[bludart]

FACT: When the game goes live players will try to kill every MOB in the game. Sorry Lore Fans, its just the way it is.

[OverKill]

They should just make the main Heros like Thrall and stuff be at like level 90+ and they'd have instant cast major damage spells that aren't normally instant cast, plenty of usable items, gaurds everywhere and maybe even an Ankh.
They could summon gaurds from some locked doors that you can't get into so it would seem that an unstoping wave of gaurds come crashing through the doors so basically they "spawn" almost right after they die. Also make the gaurds in a strategic variety. Like Jaina Proudmore might have elite priests, footmen, rangers and stuff gaurding her.

Of course if Blizzard wants to take NO chances that a main hero will die then how about when you "defeat" on of them they just scold you and swear revenge then teleport away with some spell or rare rune. :)

[Dwarfull]

As long as there are separate servers for PvP/FvF and PvE there will be these dibilating raids on the PvP servers against the most alluring of the targets. If the servers were somehow combined with some raid composition and the generic ability to level up not compromised, as I think the retail version will be, then Im think that the Alliance v Raid imbalence will be much more equal. Then then raids will be much more epic.

[Dragonflame]

celabrate, celabrate, celabrate :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Wickedly_Evil]

Personally I hope there is no reward for killing thrall except from the reward in knowing you did it. On the PvP server maybe leaders would only respawn once every other week. It would be interesting if having your leader alive acted like a relic in DAoC.

Encouraging raids of 150+ people isn't really a good idea. Killing Thrall won't be the hard part I imagine. The opposing faction will mess things up with lag and of course they will try to kill you.

[DarknessCrusader]

MaDnEsS bows his head and mourns the loss of the dead.
As the Right Arm of Thrall... I should have been there... :(

[Pongle]

Why is everyone seeming to claim forsaken are evil..

if they WERE evil they wouldn't BE forsaken..

man TFT needs another bonus level to explain this ****

[OneMadOgre]

Because they are. :) Having broken free from the tyrannical rule of the Lich King, a renegade group of undead seek to retain their own free will while destroying all those who oppose them. Known as the Forsaken, this group is dedicated to serving their leader, the banshee queen Sylvanas Windrunner. These dark warriors have established a secret stronghold beneath the ruins of Lordaeron's former capital city. Situated deep beneath the cursed Tirisfal Glades, the labyrinthine Undercity is a sprawling bastion of evil. Within its shadowy confines, Sylvanas' royal apothecaries scramble to develop a devastating new plague - one which will not only eradicate their hated Scourge rivals, but the rest of humanity as well. To further their dark aims, the Forsaken have entered into an alliance of convenience with the primitive, brutish races of the Horde. Holding no real loyalty for their newfound comrades, the Forsaken have duped them into fighting against their common enemy - the Lich King. Only time will tell how these disciples of doom will fare in their mission of vengeance. I would go with evil on that.

[Drakeon]

I suppose there might be the rare good forsaken, but for the most part there as bad as the scourge.

Wish they weren't like that though, they would be cool allies without that stupid plan ><

[Viperx11]

so what would you call them?
Good? Neutral? Poor Undead creatures? i dont get it..

I suppose there might be the rare good forsaken, but for the most part there as bad as the scourge.

Wish they weren't like that though, they would be cool allies without that stupid plan ><

Well, answer me this:

Why are they evil?

Why are they as bad as the Scourge?

[GreenFaun]

Wow, sounds cool, but I'm with OMO and others that said it was too easy. I do think it should be possible, but it doesn't seem realistic or fair if it only takes a medium-large raid. It should require, y'know, siege warfare.

And, in terms of defensive suggestions, there should definitely be passive defense, aka towers, in all the capitals and major military strongholds. Small towns and outposts could be defended with just NPC guards, but Stormwind should have Cannon Towers, for the Light's sake. Likewise, nobody should have been able to get that far into Ogrimmar without getting filled full of arrows from all those watchtowers we saw them building in the TFT bonus campaign.

[Morphina]

server based, scorch has a good comp

anyhow, at least Cairne wasn't hurt :P

I'm sure thrall slew at least 30 guys

there should probably be someything in which when you die by a Major NPC, you're sent back to your hearthstoned graveyard, but as if you were ressurected you'd be able to respanw immediatly
The more i think about it , the more it is obvious to me that scorch was having graphical lag. There was also Xinhuan who pointed out that he had the degrade his graphics to the bare minimum or he would have had the same problems as Scorch.

It was not that smart a question from myselves tough because i recnised the description as graphical lag in DAoC.

[inatey]

i tihnk the names are good u can reals see how many people there are...

[Drakeon]

Well, answer me this:

Why are they evil?

Why are they as bad as the Scourge?

Because they seek to destroy all life (or most of it) with there new plague they are making (or plan to make). I thought everyone got that from the quote OMO posted.

[SoleSteeler]

we had a massive massive (60+, might not sound like much but it was like the entire horde faction of level 30+ =p) attack tonight.. swept duskwood, got into redridge, server crashed, when we got back (we all got back scattered over 10 mins) there was about 100+ level 45+ alliance there to send us packing..

then they went and killed GG (grom'gol) then XR then TB..

sigh...

=[

[Viperx11]

Because they seek to destroy all life (or most of it) with there new plague they are making (or plan to make). I thought everyone got that from the quote OMO posted.

Aha! You have to be careful here, Drakeon and OneMadOgre. Read that quote again.

The Forsaken are exactly what their title implies...forsaken. They are doomed and tormented souls, living in a world where nobody likes them and most want to kill them and end their existence. Even the Horde allied out of sympathy...come on, Thrall wasn't exactly jumping up and down with joy when they allied with the Forsaken, and most of the Horde distrusts them greatly as far as I know.

Now, back to the quote OMO posted. If you read it, it says they seek to concoct a new plague to wipe out the Scourge- which is a GOOD THING- and wipe out the rest of humanity. That's humans, guys. Not orcs, trolls, tauren, gnolls,

Ok, that sounds bad...but you're thinking of it from a one sided perspective. The humans are going to wipe out the Forsaken if they don't do something about it. It's a matter of survival, you kill your enemy before he kills you, don't you? At worst, the Forsaken are using chemical warfare against their enemies.

They border on evil, true, but you have to admit, they can't quite be considered evil...yet. More of a dark, mysterious, and brutal race, but not necessarily evil as of now (future actions could change this...once you are set on a path like this it becomes hard to stray off).

[OneMadOgre]

I like to say that Ogres are just misunderstood as well... but this kind of says evil to me. Situated deep beneath the cursed Tirisfal Glades, the labyrinthine Undercity is a sprawling bastion of evil. :D As long as they fight by Tolas's side in the war against the Alliance, we'll take them however.

[Viperx11]

Blizzard calls their lair an evil place. Their actions to this point certainly have not indicated they are evil.

Perhaps it's all opinion based, but Blizzard has done a very good job of keeping it so that no race is TRULY malicious and evil (you could probably say no race is truly divine and enlightening, either, to be honest).

[AgeOfAbnegation]

Blizzard calls their lair an evil place. Their actions to this point certainly have not indicated they are evil.


erm... what would it be then, terms of endearment? :uhhuh:

[Viperx11]

You haven't told me what actions of theirs are evil yet.

[Xinhuan]

Shortly (1 hour) after Thrall was killed, the Horde set up a very small counterattack force. Read about it here.

http://forums.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=226373

[SoloCaster]

They said they were working on all the main heros like Thrall so it's safe to assume that this "filler" thrall will be replaced eventually but the true thrall with all his abilities, strengths and much more gaurds and defenses. He'll probably be almost impossible to kill by the time of release.
CORRECT! I can't wait till they try it on the finished version! Lol, the alliance will get so PWNED!

[OverKill]

I think the amount of friendly mobs should be porportionate to that factions population.

Example:
Alliance has 60% of the entire player population of a server.
Horde has 40% of the entire player population of a server.
Alliance has some friendly mobs.
Horde has even more friendly mobs that outnumber the Alliances.

This means that even with uneven teams on the servers the factions with the lower player population gets a bonus amount of friendly mobs. So the Horde might have more computer allies of orcs, trolls, undead, tauren and orges (YES OGRES 'CAUSE THEY RULE) then the alliances Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, High Elves and Night Elves.

This would help even the odds though the faction with more friendly computer allies would probably have a stronger defence due to the mobs staying where they should be and the faction with the lower allied computers and higher human player population would have more offensive capabilities due to their better movement.

[Seklisa]

During raids, if the lag is as bad as everyone says it is, what are the reccomended specs for your computer/connection? A lot of people must not lag if the puny alliance players brought down the mighty Warchief. If the problem isn't the people's computers, but because the servers aren't as good as they need t be, why is everyone not affected by the lag?

[OneMadOgre]

**Sniff**

You had me at Ogre.





I agree on everything that involves me either playing as, or with an Ogre.

[SpiritWalker]

**Sniff**

You had me at Ogre.

I agree on everything that involves me either playing as, or with an Ogre.
You need 2 people to play 1, don't you remember OMO? ;) :lol:

[Wired4Suicide]

All I want to know is are the PvP, Horde vs. Alliance servers and Adventure servers labeled so they can be identified for easy access or are they like EQs random server placement......

Oh and down with the Horde hatters!!! :rant:

[Blackmoore]

Hmm...I have to say..Nice bump. Don't do it again. :D Now, from what I know, the servers will not be named "Us East" or "Asia", but it won't be random. I think it'll be like Warcraft where it's Loraedon and Azeroth etc. but, we still know the real location.

Kapeche? Also, welcome. Read the rules and you'll be fine.