Guild Wars World Event started

[Moichi]

I just downloaded the client to be ready to go for tomorrow.
It seems as if they started one day early, I´m currently online and playing! :thumbsup:

[Khal'jur]

I'm playing too!

[Lalanthiron]

I'm playing too!

Mee too.... unless by pure luck WoW OB starts... and then I'll be playing that :P

[ivengo]

I'm in CB in WoW but I'm trying out Guild Wars too.
I liked it during E3 :)

[Donsta]

Ack! I have some errands to run but I'll be on later.

[Nostradamus92]

Coolness... How much do you have to download when you have creater your char... appears to take a while...

[Apollo]

Downloading it now... 45%

[richijefe]

tnx for the info, loadin GW now! ^_^ :buddies:

[Khal'jur]

Not enough close to as fun as WoW, but still fun nonetheless.

[Nostradamus92]

Nice until wow :D

Anyone wanna party? My names Awaken Sin in there... feel free to whisper me :D

[Backdoor Bandit]

I am also playing. Oh how I wish Blizzard would also start a surprise OB. Seems like they would never do that. How cool of ArenaNet.

Strange...I am in the middle of downloading at the start up screen and its doin so at 2kb/sec, instead of several mbs per sec (I am at university, so my connection is usually insane!) Anyone else having issues?

[ekim]

I am also playing. Oh how I wish Blizzard would also start a surprise OB. Seems like they would never do that. How cool of ArenaNet.

Strange...I am in the middle of downloading at the start up screen and its doin so at 2kb/sec, instead of several mbs per sec (I am at university, so my connection is usually insane!) Anyone else having issues?


I had that problem only when I first booted it up this morning. Once I got past that, I was back to normal D/L speeds.

Names Eleiza Bekur.

[Backdoor Bandit]

I had that problem only when I first booted it up this morning. Once I got past that, I was back to normal D/L speeds.

Names Eleiza Bekur.

I see. Well, its up to 10kb already :worship:
What characters have you guys chosen?

Ill be going with the elementalist/monk combo.

[Ravakash]

I playing too. Hopefuly my comp will be able to hold those graphics!

[RavenFirecaster]

1,300 files to go, but in after that. :D

Raven Firecaster in game

[Chaosas]

Hello :)
Since you said this, I'm downloading the client too.
Will only play for 1 day probably... But still :)
My nickname is Kaa Bloodfang and I'm Elementalist/Mesmeriser :)

[Dooplanger]

bah I just started downloading it

[Rydal]

Just played it, feels good, looks good :thumbsup:. Completed 1 mission allready.

- Rydal

[Sund]

downloading now so see you all soon )

[Khal'jur]

Eh, I'm not feelin it :(

[Mendaveth]

I just downloaded the client to be ready to go for tomorrow.
It seems as if they started one day early, I´m currently online and playing! :thumbsup:

Woot!! I'm loading it when I go home for lunch in a few minutes! See Y'all tonight. I will be the whiny l'il beeotch named Mendaveth lol.

[Dooplanger]

hmm well considering, when it comes to prices, this game will be like EQ without monthly payments, just a whole lot of expansions. Maybe I can make time for both WoW and GW.

[Ravakash]

I'll be Trinivalt The Rogue in game.
...only ~800 files left

[RavenFirecaster]

Wow. WOW. Talk about WORLDS better than it was in E3. I'll be playing this for the next 72-96 hrs straight. :D

[dubious]

well i just did that first quest thingy now its loading the next part, only 700 files to go :p yup this will pass the time nively :D

[blizad]

I played during e3 and it wasn't bad. Get a good group and do some tough quests and it's pretty fun. I would love to play this weekend, too bad it's halloween weekend. Wish they had the preview on a boring weekend when there weren't so many parties and such.....oh well i'll d/l it and play a bit anyways, but i won't get the fun in getting to the end of everything they let you test like last time since i can't play much...

[Dooplanger]

im confused, I just started playing and cant tell if this is a single player or multiplayer game

[Seraphim]

I started a Necromancer/Ranger combo - interesting huh? Guess I'm going for the whole Sylvannas thing, anyway, look me up in game after I finish downloading these files, 2,500 to go. :rant:

Oh, PS - my name is Seraphim Darkwind.

[powermongor]

Im Power Mongor in game.

Look me up later tonight. I been playing it for a bit, looks pretty fun, getting used to the controls. not super-impressed with it yet, but we will see.

[Pub-O]

downloading now... jesus its a cool character creation!!!!!!!!:) :clap:

[Moichi]

Here´s a quick update after playing some hours and completing 3 missions.
To sum it up: I´m not really impressed. It´s basically Diablo 3D. Hack 'n Slash. Attack attack attack - monster dead. Rinse repeat. For tougher monsters you just need longer, not more skill. It seldom makes a difference if you use your abilities or not, since it´s more like zerging the monsters with a 6player-party.
Only 8 of your abilities per mission allowed. Graphics are mediocre - I have a crappy vid card though, so this may only accord to people with older systems. But WoW looked much better on my system.
The UI isn´t bad, but not as intuitive as WoW. Inventory / equipped items are mixed, kinda confusing. Camera rotation needs lots of work.
The whole town/map/world location thing isn´t clear to me right now. I usually have no I idea where I am; neither in a mission nor between.
I like the story-line sequences using the game-engine (much like in WC III).
Overall: fun to play, but I wouldn´t pay money for it. In it´s current state that is. Of course it´s not done yet, but I´m not sure if they can improve the basics of the game´s gameplay...

[Chaosas]

Are they idiots?
I compelted downloading everything, then I decide to restart my PC, so I quit GW, restart, start GW... AND ALL FILES START DOWNLAODING AGAIN FROM 0% :stoned:

[borrokii]

Agg! Gotta run off to work, but I'll be playing about 1:30am est if anyone is on. Monk/warrior named Ancoragon Borrokii if you wanna group up :)

[Jarlo]

I made a monk/war and think I'm going to restart as a war/monk.

Overall very interesting looking concept, I agree with the 3d Diable concept as I'm pretty sure that is what they are TRYING to do. Lots of action, fast, but it is supposed to use more skill so not sure on that one..

I thought the graphics were pretty damn good although a bit glow-ey. Make sure you check your settings and make sure the options aren't turned off or something. The water has some pretty amazing reflective models actually.

I will be playing all weekend since I can't WOW.

You start at lvl 15 btw and can get to 20. The area you start in is instanced and you are alone until you enter the first town.

[Deaths.Utility]

Warrior/Ranger... cant find nebody in game... someone find me so im not alone
game isn't what i expected.. but since im hooked on WoW i guess i understand ...

Name is Helithium Duskmourn in-game look me up

[Dooplanger]

Its kind of odd, everything except towns are isntanced (from what ive experienced). Not a whole lot of variety in spells but that may be because its not complete yet. I do love the look of the game though and how I feel I may be actaully having an affect on the game world. Overall its decent, better than any SOE game ive played but thats not saying alot :). Even if it was better than WoW it still wouldnt be warcraft.

[Jarlo]

Ok all you people who say you can't find anyone-- play for > 10 minutes!

The tutorial section is instanced.. meaning you are ALONE on your own little server. ONce you enter the main town you will not be able to walk 5 feet without stepping on someone's toes.

Also in town and looking for a specific person, make sure you check which district you are in (top left corner). They run mutliple instances of the town due to crowding so you may need to change districts to find your buddy.

[RavenFirecaster]

Not a whole lot of variety in spells but that may be because its not complete yet.
Go over to the WoW sister-site, GWOnline.net and you'll see quite a comprehensive list of spells and abilities per character class.

Graphics are mediocre - I have a crappy vid card though, so this may only accord to people with older systems. But WoW looked much better on my system.
Using an nVidia XFX5200 here, and for me the shadowing/distance viewing is much sharper and noticeably better in GW than in WoW.


Part of the strategy it seems isn't so much in how many skills you have, but in what skills you choose to take to a specific instance. I'm sure this will be more important for characters that start at lvl 1, rather than for us OB'ers that are starting at lvl 15.

[MegaLing]

my old ranger from the e3 event doesn't have his bow anymore.....where can i find one? =\

[Pai Mai]

Here´s a quick update after playing some hours and completing 3 missions.
To sum it up: I´m not really impressed. It´s basically Diablo 3D. Hack 'n Slash. Attack attack attack - monster dead. Rinse repeat. For tougher monsters you just need longer, not more skill. It seldom makes a difference if you use your abilities or not, since it´s more like zerging the monsters with a 6player-party.
Only 8 of your abilities per mission allowed. Graphics are mediocre - I have a crappy vid card though, so this may only accord to people with older systems. But WoW looked much better on my system.
The UI isn´t bad, but not as intuitive as WoW. Inventory / equipped items are mixed, kinda confusing. Camera rotation needs lots of work.
The whole town/map/world location thing isn´t clear to me right now. I usually have no I idea where I am; neither in a mission nor between.
I like the story-line sequences using the game-engine (much like in WC III).
Overall: fun to play, but I wouldn´t pay money for it. In it´s current state that is. Of course it´s not done yet, but I´m not sure if they can improve the basics of the game´s gameplay...
It doesn't even have the "addiction factor" that Diablo 2 had. It feels a lot more like a combination of Myth 2 and Phantasy Star Online to me. Also, I don't know if it's just because it's not optimized yet, but the game looked like it was running in OpenGL and a lot of the ground textures didn't look right with the bloom effect. Graphics are pretty nice though overall, but I'm not sure I would buy this game...just not much to it.

[powermongor]

lets form a guild in game.

[ekim]

my old ranger from the e3 event doesn't have his bow anymore.....where can i find one? =\

Item wipe. I got my character back from the E3 event as well, and she only has starter gear again. As for your bow... if you have any gold you can probably buy one, or go and find one from some mobs.

EDIT: Is anyone online right now? I'll be on for about 45 more minutes.

[RavenFirecaster]

my old ranger from the e3 event doesn't have his bow anymore.....where can i find one? =\
Ummm... The first NPC guy you see and talk to tells you to look in his chest in the tent to the west. I found a starter bow in that chest. (Ranger/Monk here, recycling my E3 char)

[Tevush Kasht]

Can someone help me with some things here ? I find it exceptionally difficult to use my mouse in game, as if it should be inversed. Using my shortkeys (1-8) also tends to bring up some unwanted chat windows. Overall so far, I find the control of my character exceptionally difficult, I have trouble seeing where I go and controlling the mouse movement.

[MegaLing]

nope, i found myself right in Lion Arch whatever. Doesnt matter tho, i made a new char War/Monk and went thru the tutorial and got my stuff =\

[ekim]

nope, i found myself right in Lion Arch whatever. Doesnt matter tho, i made a new char War/Monk and went thru the tutorial and got my stuff =\

I found a bow, if you want it.

[Dragonflame]

Dam I justed finished the turtoul I downloaded it a little late lol
When it finshes down loading to the next down (sigh long downloads) I'll look for some of u, I am dragonflame like my rpg.forums name and I'm a warrior/elemints

[MegaLing]

we went to the Mantle mission whatever, and it seemed smooth until lwe got into the town that was getting swarmed...once we got in there, we got owned...

[Sund]

yeah the games got a strange feeling to it but all in all Im having fun atm. Onto the 3rd mission....well waiting to fownload it thats my only gripe atm but I have to admit it has somethign thats got me interested atm I'll let you know when I find out what it is )

[Sund]

MegaLing stay by the NPC in that mission they heal and so does the shrine i think. We made the mistake of running to the mobs the first time and got wiped....2nd time no probs standing in the centre.

[RavenFirecaster]

we went to the Mantle mission whatever, and it seemed smooth until lwe got into the town that was getting swarmed...once we got in there, we got owned...
Yeah, serious pwnage there. My merc and I got tossed around. I gotta re-roll a char and try it from home, where I don't have to play it windowed. (gotta love bein' able to minimize when the boss walks in :D )

[FrozenYak]

things definitly look interesting, but so far i have to agree with the zergling attack review, it doesnt seem like much skill is involved as long as everyone stays together and doesnt aggro a lot.

I hope theres time to check out some other parts of the game in this trial aside from the instances, cuz if its primarily just that I have to say im pretty dissapointed.

[Jarlo]

Uhh I'm pretty sure the game is nearly 100% instanced...

There is a guy that takes you to some PVP instances on the docks.

I'm torn on what I want to try when I get home... Something with warrior primary then either elementalist, necro, or monk... hrmm fun thinking of new characters 8)

[Sentinel]

I just downloaded the client to be ready to go for tomorrow.
It seems as if they started one day early, I´m currently online and playing! :thumbsup:
Thats interesting. See for me your post was made at 1:43am on the 29th. But why would they start it on the 29th for an Aussie timezone?

But yeah, downloading...

[Jarlo]

Looking at the warrior skil list alot of the action seems "twitchy" which I kind of like.

Here is a page that lists them.
http://www.gwonline.net/page.php?p=51#Swordsmanship

For example..
Deadly Riposte
Description: For 8 seconds, while you have a sword equipped, you parry the next attack against you, and your attack takes 1-15 damage and begins bleeding. This is an elite skill.
Energy Cost: 5
Activation Time: 1 Second.
Recharge Time: 10 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: Tactics. Increases damage dealt.
Skill Type: Skill.

Savage Slash
Description: If this attack hits, it interrupts target foe's action. If that action was a spell, you deal 1-20 extra damage.
Energy Cost: 5
Activation Time: None.
Recharge Time: 10 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: Swordsmanship. Increases additional damage dealt.
Skill Type: Sword Attack.


I'm anxious to get home now 8)

[Sund]

OK ive been playing for about 3 hrs straight now with a 1mb connection and a few missions in and now between loading im down to around 2kb/sec.....mabey I need to restart (

[Qishi]

I have a quick question. Are the load times between the instances always going to be this long or is it just the first time you do it? The game has a nice feel to it and I'd like to get into it more but these 10 minute stops aren't helping it any.

[EdrictheWild]

I think that's just one time since this game is technically a preview only. I'm EdrictheWild if anyone sees me :)

[a_pax]

98% and then the download had a fu***** problem, now to start all ovwer again

[Sentinel]

98% and then the download had a fu***** problem, now to start all ovwer again
At least your is done. Im getting a download speed of 10k, sooo slooooow.

[MegaLing]

anyways, can you all whisper? whisper me on Carboxyl Anger tommorrow ! now i got alot work to do ! we need a wow.net gathering or sumthing.............

[Jawelik]

I downloaded it, played it for a few minutes, then closed it off! Dammit, now I have to download it all over again, and it's going so damn slow!!

Anyway, I've taken down all the names given on this thread, and all are destined for my friends list. :D I'm Jawelik Korr in game by the way. :thumbsup:

[Semidi]

Look for Semidi Troll and well share some laughs!

[Patroklus]

Guildwars is hot! If you're already playing, head over to the arena and get in on some 4v4 action. The battles are about the same pace as WoW! It's really alot of fun!

[Chaosas]

Yeah I'm playing an elementalist/mesmeriser (came up with this combo myself lol but then found out it was kinda popular). I can do awsome damage and our party of 6 people just cut through the missions... Everything dropped like flies :)
It takes extremely long for me to move between isntances however. Even when moving second time, some people who moves for the first time moved faster than me :lol:

[FrozenYak]

but isnt there some sort of war function in the game? I would think it would be nice to actually try a pvp "guild war".

[Apollo]

<-- Phoebus the Radiant: Ranger, Elementalist.

[Rycan]

Rycan Narrone (in game) Necromancer/Monk

[Pub-O]

I have a quick question. Are the load times between the instances always going to be this long or is it just the first time you do it? The game has a nice feel to it and I'd like to get into it more but these 10 minute stops aren't helping it any.

Guild wars is using a new "revolutionary" kind of steaming technologi.

Its not loading times.. its the actual levels that are being downloaded and steamed directly.

Dont worry, you will only have does ones...



Ok people - I think your to critical! This game is not even in an official beta state yet, and still it deserves comparrison with diablo 2? lmao.. the game is just more of a demo, not the hold darn game...

and of course... this game will be aimed towards PvP!


Playing a war/monk, PvE is easy!

The cut scenes is very cool... but the game lacks seriously voice overs like in EQ2.. And to many character models repeat itselfs!

I think this will be a fun online MMO!

Will it be able to beat WoW? Hell no... not even compete! This is a great game... I consider this the next round normal online RPGs! Guild wars is fun and fast and cool when you get the hang of it.. just go in their for 10 minutes, have some pvp and thats it..

Bioware is getting compition! Obidisan needs to realise that noone is gonna favor freakin grinding crap with NWN2!.. And same with bioware with their next baldua gateish Dragon age...

As far as the other online RPGs go, Im not really sure... I really would not consider Dungeon Siege a contender!

I think GW has great potential!:)

[The SilverDeath]

are there 50 vs 50 fights?

[Khal'jur]

Eh, I didn't have much fun at all with the game, wasn't too great.

[Solaquin]

Solaquin Asgard, Mesmer/Necromancer, at your service. :) So far I've just done the tutorial instance, but I like what I've played to this point. The servers must be completely bombed though to have such a weak download speed.

[DaPlaya]

anyone know how come it talkes sooo long to download? says it's doing 40kB/s but it's only updating the total at a speed of around 1kB/s.. seems like i might as well go to work afterall..

[Ifrit18]

Combat seems so similar to WoW.

WoW still take the cake though ;).

[Nostradamus92]

I'm lvl 17 and just finished mission 3 and I really like the game.. gfx er top noth and it's pretty much what diablo 2 should have been like... it's nice and easy... not really a mmorpg, but still funky enough.

[Sentinel]

Eh, I didn't have much fun at all with the game, wasn't too great.
Same. The game just seems to be lacking. Seems to be go here, kill this, go there, kill that. Not really any plot, no dialogue worth reading, and no feel to the world at all. Reminds me of D2.

im might be back on later but for now Im off to read a book.

[SpAm_BuStA]

is it free? and if so where can i get it?

[Taajstein]

In the E3 event, levels loaded almost instantly.

However, these ones are much much bigger.

[barbarian_bob]

I'm gonna try a warrior/mesmer combo so if anyone wants to party with me just send a message to Trebor in game or say something on the forums

[Dragonflame]

Hey bob I'll be in Lion archway as dragonflame a warrior /elementist

[GruntReflex]

I'm enjoying the game, although I couldn't find the city Loamhurst in the second mission. Everyone bailed, and it was just me running around with this Eye suspended over my head. I was playing quite well, supporting the team with heals, cure poisons, rezzes. It was a lot of fun, and although there isn't much point to everything (wasn't much point to anything in Diablo either, as I recall), working as a team is very cool, and easy to get into.

I see it as a sort of RPG quick fix, and I suspect that as you establish yourself in the game over time and get into a decent guild, play PvP, etc. this Diablo-on-steroids could be a lot of fun. Not a replacement for WoW, but a very cool diversion that could be very competitive and fun for those nights when your WoW guild is quiet, or if you just want to kill different kinds of stuff. It certainly requires grouping and PvP, so if you are not getting your fill of those in WoW at times, it offers a decent substitute.

I have my pre-order for both WoW and Guild Wars.

[Dooplanger]

Well after playing for a bit longer the game is obviously not a MMORPG, it doesnt really fit my taste.

[SpAm_BuStA]

Where Can I Download This

[barbarian_bob]

Hey bob I'll be in Lion archway as dragonflame a warrior /elementist

Cool, but I still got 484 files to go and for some reason its at a 1kps so I'll be on later definatley. Hope your still on in a half hour!

[dubious]

well so far im lvl 17 and im enjoying it, its a fun game for what it is. if youre looking for a game to fulfill your wow needs than you'll be dissapointed.

[FrozenYak]

now ur sure right in that grunt, its a quick rpg fix - and for that reason i may be interested in getting it to play on occasion

So heres a question, if you just buy it - and dont buy the upgrades, can you still buy it after it upgrades? For instance...will u just be previous areas but no new areas?

[Ifrit18]

I agree its good enough game to pacify me for at least a weekend.

[Sentinel]

Where Can I Download This
lol, lots of ppl paying attention to you aint there? :p

Pretty sure its at the official site. www.guildwars.com. I actually got mine from fileplanet though.

[powermongor]

I'll be on for rest of night.

I am Power Mongor

[Hydro]

My name is Hydronus Swiftblade
Give me a yell if you see me, I am about to be on for a while.

[Donsta]

Where Can I Download This

Go to the sister site www.gwonline.net

They have info and links there.

You can also download the client at rhe main site.

http://www.guildwars.com/

[dubious]

anyone elses characters get rolled back? i just logged on after being away for like 3 hours and my character got rolled back a lvl.

[Dragonflame]

This game is pretty good but definitly not an MMORPG

Hehehehe the gladiator fights lol try them

[Squarebob Spongepants]

It would be more enjoyable if my computer didn't keep overheating and crashing :grrr:

It looks good. Can't say much more at the moment.

_______________________________

The game is ready for lunch.

[Jawelik]

I've been playing for hours, and having an absolute blast with my Warrior/Monk, Jawelik Korr. At one point I tracked down Raven Firecaster, and we spent a little time adventuring together. Unfortuneately for Raven, I totally suck at this game!! I was thinking though, maybe we should get everyone here together, and start a WoW.net guild. Might be fun.

[Dooplanger]

I've been playing for hours, and having an absolute blast with my Warrior/Monk, Jawelik Korr. At one point I tracked down Raven Firecaster, and we spent a little time adventuring together. Unfortuneately for Raven, I totally suck at this game!! I was thinking though, maybe we should get everyone here together, and start a WoW.net guild. Might be fun.

eh well I dont see this happening but it would be nice to get some people to be dependable to group with so I can get past mission 1 (damn skeleton archers). Will probably play a bit more tomorrow.

[RavenFirecaster]

I've been playing for hours, and having an absolute blast with my Warrior/Monk, Jawelik Korr. At one point I tracked down Raven Firecaster, and we spent a little time adventuring together. Unfortuneately for Raven, I totally suck at this game!! I was thinking though, maybe we should get everyone here together, and start a WoW.net guild. Might be fun.
It was certainly fun! :D

My wife and I went through and completed the first mission quite easily, after we learned from the mistakes made during the first couple of attempts I made. ;)

NOTE: Hire a monk mercenary. Makes life SO much easier!

[RavenFirecaster]

BTW: Sorry to back-to-back post, but I want to ask everyone here to TAKE SCREENSHOTS OFTEN! :D

It's as easy as hitting PrintScreen in game. Dumps the .bmps to a Screens folder. I've got a dozen or so saved up already, and will be posting a bunch on Monday once I can't play anymore. :D

[Rushster]

You can posyt them up on GWOnline.net (http://www.gwonline.net) via the automated screenshots system and add you own captions etc.

BTW: Sorry to back-to-back post, but I want to ask everyone here to TAKE SCREENSHOTS OFTEN! :D

It's as easy as hitting PrintScreen in game. Dumps the .bmps to a Screens folder. I've got a dozen or so saved up already, and will be posting a bunch on Monday once I can't play anymore. :D

[RavenFirecaster]

You can posyt them up on GWOnline.net (http://www.gwonline.net) via the automated screenshots system and add you own captions etc.
Can and will do, thanks for the advice. :D

[Jawelik]

I think the servers went down for a few minutes, so I decided I might come here and make a quick post. I am totally loving this game. Just made a new monk, and quite like keeping my party members alive. Makes it easy to find a party too. Still I have a few problems when they split up and get into separate fights. Its a pain running back and forth healing and trying to keep any of them from dying. But I guess that just makes the game more interesting. Pretty cool when you can keep the most noobish team imaginable alive. :flip:

Yeah, and I definitely have to hook up with Raven again, its a blast playing with someone from the forum. Anyone else playing be sure to add a monk named 'Healy Healerson' to your friends list and give me a whisper. I'd be happy to team with any of you! :thumbsup:

[Jarlo]

Jarlok Spinebreaker 17 war/nec at your service.

Well I am if the servers get back up 8)

Have done the first 2 missions so far. Died last night on the chasing the guys thru the forest mission.

[Sentinel]

If Im on add me and Ill play. Ive got nothin better to do.

Elarna Feln 17 Ran/War

My chars too good though, I have yet to lose a 1v1 even against a level 19 warrior. Thats how ez this game is.

[Jawelik]

One thing i've found is there are warriors aplenty in this game. Fortunately I like to have two in my group. I think esmers and priests are very sought after though. Not many of them around. If anyone feels up to it they should try making one, I doubt you'll have trouble partying.

[Sentinel]

Or if you love PvP just go warrior. Theres virtually no skill needed if your entire PvP teams is just warriors. You just walk over em. If the enemy has strategy (which they dont usually, D2 style ppl cant think) you might lose. But normally you dont.

[Morphina]

I don't think i will ever buy this game.

W"hy?

Well, there is no immersion, i don't like their zone design.
I don't like their combat system (only 8 spells)
I don't like the part where you can rewrap your skillpoints as you like.
Its no real MMORPG, and that shows.