They Are Counting The Votes

[Hydro]

I am terrified of Bush winning.
I am seriously very very scared that he will win this election.
Anyone else understand my terror?

[GaiaWombat]

I don't quite relate with the terror you feel about it. I don't think Bush is capable of starting WW3, and I don't think he's going to withdraw from the UN. There is a system of checks and balances in place that makes sure the president doesn't have enough power to do something that stupid. I would like to remind you that a majority of Democrats in the senate originally voted for the war in Iraq. There is also the fact that there have not been any major terror attacks for the last three years, which I attribute to the department of homeland security and the president's actions.

George Bush is not the best candidate in any sense of the term, in my opinion. There are many things I could say about him and his policies that I disagree with. However, I really think he is better than Kerry. I personally am afraid that if Kerry is elected there will be another terrorist attack on US soil. This isn't because of what the Bush administration is telling me; this is because I don't think Kerry is nearly as aggresive as Bush and I don't think he will be willing to do enough to stop something before it happens. Not to mention that I see no way that Kerry will handle Iraq any differently than the current administration.

All in all, I'm not happy either way, but I think we'll be slightly better off if Bush wins.

[Hydro]

Eh. Give a Bush 4 more years and you give terrorist ranks 40,000 more members.

[GaiaWombat]

I honestly don't believe that who our president is makes any difference on how much hatred there is from that side to the US. With Kerry as president, there will still be just as many corporations, just as much advertisement and media, just as much America in America. Either way, fundamentalist Islam hates us, regardless of who's in office.

[Oberon]

If Bush wins I will seriously look into emmigration.

[Andarcel]

I don't quite relate with the terror you feel about it. I don't think Bush is capable of starting WW3, and I don't think he's going to withdraw from the UN. There is a system of checks and balances in place that makes sure the president doesn't have enough power to do something that stupid. I would like to remind you that a majority of Democrats in the senate originally voted for the war in Iraq. There is also the fact that there have not been any major terror attacks for the last three years, which I attribute to the department of homeland security and the president's actions.

George Bush is not the best candidate in any sense of the term, in my opinion. There are many things I could say about him and his policies that I disagree with. However, I really think he is better than Kerry. I personally am afraid that if Kerry is elected there will be another terrorist attack on US soil. This isn't because of what the Bush administration is telling me; this is because I don't think Kerry is nearly as aggresive as Bush and I don't think he will be willing to do enough to stop something before it happens. Not to mention that I see no way that Kerry will handle Iraq any differently than the current administration.

All in all, I'm not happy either way, but I think we'll be slightly better off if Bush wins.
I would like to remind you that a majority of Democrats in the senate originally voted for the war in Iraq. Wrong. A majority of Dems voted to allow him to use force in Iraq. This was back in the days when it looked like he might actuallyl use that to get UN backing. No senator, Democratic or otherwise, voted to go war. Bush didn't bother asking them.

Hydro, I believe we could quite literally set the entire Middle East ablaze under a second Bush term. I support your fear 100%. However, I think Ohio and Florida will both flow our way, and that makes a Bush victory really damn difficult.

[Hopfrog]

Wrong. A majority of Dems voted to allow him to use force in Iraq. This was back in the days when it looked like he might actuallyl use that to get UN backing. No senator, Democratic or otherwise, voted to go war. Bush didn't bother asking them.

Hydro, I believe we could quite literally set the entire Middle East ablaze under a second Bush term. I support your fear 100%. However, I think Ohio and Florida will both flow our way, and that makes a Bush victory really damn difficult.
Well the way I see it the damage is done. The consequenses(or benefits) of the war are what they are. We will be there for a long time. Terrorists will try to do what they do regardless of who the Pres. is.On a lighter note, check out the WoW.net unofficial FAQ, and read the Open Questions. This may scare you even more than the prospect of a 2nd Bush presidency, Hydro!!!

[Glurin]

Wrong. A majority of Dems voted to allow him to use force in Iraq. This was back in the days when it looked like he might actuallyl use that to get UN backing. No senator, Democratic or otherwise, voted to go war. Bush didn't bother asking them.

Now your just argueing semantics. Technicly speaking, the U.S. hasn't actualy been at war since WW2.

[Andarcel]

Politics is semantics. Most Democrats never believed Bush would approach Iraq in the way he did. He betrayed them. And now we live with the consequences.

[GaiaWombat]

I don't think that changes the fact that Kerry will not do anything better than Bush regarding Iraq. Has he told anyone his plan, besides "gaining more foreign support?" I see no reason to believe that Kerry will accomplish anything in the Middle East.

[Sage the Mage]

I have a feeling Bush is gonna carry Ohio and Flordia now. So in conclusion we're screwed.

I've also lost all faith in the voting population because of Kentucky.

[Oberon]

My understanding is the exit poll totals the networks are showing do NOT include early voting totals. Be patient.

[Semidi]

I find it funny actually! 4 more years!

[Felicia]

Don't buy into it too much yet, the news media has a history of causing fallout voting and premature voting totals. We won't really know anything who won until much later this evening.

[powermongor]

I am terrified of Bush winning.
I am seriously very very scared that he will win this election.
Anyone else understand my terror?

You should be terrified of Bush losing...

[powermongor]

If Bush wins I will seriously look into emmigration.

And a great day for America that would be :howdy:

[Elevander]

Politics is semantics. Most Democrats never believed Bush would approach Iraq in the way he did. He betrayed them. And now we live with the consequences.
Oh yes, every day I look out my window in fear of death, plauge, or some other horrible consequence.

[Hydro]

Oh yes, every day I look out my window in fear of death, plauge, or some other horrible consequence.

Im afraid if Bush gets re-elected you just might...

[Andarcel]

Oh yes, every day I look out my window in fear of death, plauge, or some other horrible consequence.
You aren't the one going to be caught in a civil war in Iraq, now, are you? Some of us bear the burdens of Bush's foreign policy more than others.

Florida looks bad now. Ohio - we'll just have to wait and see.

[Kisenger]

My concern doesn't have to do with Irag or those places because we have entire in a never ending civil war in the region. My concern is the way Bush hadnles our country. When he stated in the 3rd debate that the "No child left behind" plan was getting all the funds it need. He didn't know anything the school system where i lived hired 3 or so people to run that and within 2 or so months they got fired because of lack of funds.To me it just seems that Bush just doesn't fully realize what is really going on here because he is to involved with Irag.

[Hydro]

My concern doesn't have to do with Irag or those places because we have entire in a never ending civil war in the region. My concern is the way Bush hadnles our country. When he stated in the 3rd debate that the "No child left behind" plan was getting all the funds it need. He didn't know anything the school system where i lived hired 3 or so people to run that and within 2 or so months they got fired because of lack of funds.To me it just seems that Bush just doesn't fully realize what is really going on here because he is to involved with Irag.

Atrocious spelling :uhhuh: , but you got it completely right.

[GaiaWombat]

Damnit, people, you all overreact to extremes. If Bush gets re-elected, you will not look out your window in fear of death, plague, or some other horrible consequence. You'll probably continue to live your normal lives, maybe even get your taxes lowered a bit. The people in Iraq probably won't even be affected, because I doubt Kerry would change anything. Calm down, please. Maybe your schools might be affected a bit, France might get a little more pissed off. But, contrary to popular belief, your life won't be changing in significant ways. Bush isn't a wonderful president, but he can't single-handedly destroy this country.

[Kisenger]

Sorry if the spelling bothered you and many more people, I just didn't really care to spell check.

Do any of you remember in the 3rd debate when the question about minimum wage came up. Kerry said that he wants to raise minimum wage while Bush goes off and talks about education. Now can someone tell me that is supposed to make me believe that Bush will be a good President if he can't even answer a question.

The reason why I use the 3rd debate is because its the only one I really watched and remember enough.

[Sage the Mage]

Damn, I gotta start trusting my predictions. Its been my gut feeling since Kerry got the nomination. 4th time I've been right it looks like. Want to know another reason I know Bush is gonna win? Its gonna rain for the next two days.

Then again, a guy with a mental disorder already won Kentucky's senate seat.

[Hydro]

Damnit, people, you all overreact to extremes. If Bush gets re-elected, you will not look out your window in fear of death, plague, or some other horrible consequence. You'll probably continue to live your normal lives, maybe even get your taxes lowered a bit. The people in Iraq probably won't even be affected, because I doubt Kerry would change anything. Calm down, please. Maybe your schools might be affected a bit, France might get a little more pissed off. But, contrary to popular belief, your life won't be changing in significant ways. Bush isn't a wonderful president, but he can't single-handedly destroy this country.

Normally I agree with statements like these, but Bush will continue to clamp down on civil liberties, he will appoint Supreme judges that will do the same, and he will continue to alienate the rest of the world with horrible foreign policy.
This is a unique election, because it DOES matter.

[Hydro]

Sorry if the spelling bothered you and many more people, I just didn't really care to spell check.

Do any of you remember in the 3rd debate when the question about minimum wage came up. Kerry said that he wants to raise minimum wage while Bush goes off and talks about education. Now can someone tell me that is supposed to make me believe that Bush will be a good President if he can't even answer a question.

The reason why I use the 3rd debate is because its the only one I really watched and remember enough.

Didn't bother me, was just messing with you.
Watched all 3 debates, the last one was closer to a draw, while the first two were won by Kerry.

[WiglyWorm]

Ohio is almost definatley coming down to provisional ballots. Florida might. some stations are calling Florida for Bush now, some are refusing to call it for anyone.

This race is neck and neck, i'm glued to the TV and my computer.

[Kisenger]

Now since Bush got Florida, Kerry needs to get all the Northern states to win. 237-188 Bush winning.

[GaiaWombat]

I don't know about any of you, but I haven't noticed any restriction of my civil liberties. I really don't see how Bush is stealing our freedoms. Actually, I'm curious to know what gives you guys this idea. I very well could be convinced of it, if you present a factual and convincing enough basis, but right now I'm not seeing it.

btw, it bothers me that all the stations could have such different predictions. How do we know who we can trust? Here's CBS, predicting that it's 246-207 in Bush's favor, but then here's CNN, predicting 234-188 Bush's favor. Is CBS being preemptive with its predictions, or is CNN just too cautious?

[Sage the Mage]

I'm calling a Bush win in Ohio by 50 thousand votes. I expect a european beta account if I'm right :)

[Kisenger]

Not quite sure this would be considered a Civil Liberty, but maybe the fact that he wants to completely disallow g.ays to marry. Its not that hard to change the definition of marriage in the dictionary. Hell they added terms for g.ay and ******. After all g.ay did just mean to be happy before they added the other term and ****** did just mean a bundle of sticks before once again they added the other term. So its doesn't seem a big problem to add a same sex definition to marriage.

[Hydro]

I don't know about any of you, but I haven't noticed any restriction of my civil liberties. I really don't see how Bush is stealing our freedoms. Actually, I'm curious to know what gives you guys this idea. I very well could be convinced of it, if you present a factual and convincing enough basis, but right now I'm not seeing it.

btw, it bothers me that all the stations could have such different predictions. How do we know who we can trust? Here's CBS, predicting that it's 246-207 in Bush's favor, but then here's CNN, predicting 234-188 Bush's favor. Is CBS being preemptive with its predictions, or is CNN just too cautious?

The patriot act gives the government the right to do pretty much what they want, when they want. I have had friends questioned law enforcement officials just for being foreign.
The rights of homosexuals are being trampled on, and while I am on the fence about *** marriage, I don't agree with taking away the right to civil unions. Abortion is slowly being phased out, and again, for **** victims or victims of incest or molestation this is NOT a good idea. The INS agency has been put under the control of homeland security, and all incoming immigrants can be denied with no reason. This directly clashes with the Human Rights Convention of 1973 (Date may be wrong) which gives all humans the basic right to avoid persecution. The rights of war criminals in the Guantanomo Bay prison are being ignored, and the U.S. governments actions are condemned by Amnesty International and the International Red Cross and Red Crescent movement. We declined to join into the International Court, making us the only developed country to decline the offer.

I have other reasons for not voting Bush as well, the economy, foreign policy, Iraq, terrorism, if you would like me to expand my reasons for any feel free to ask.

[GaiaWombat]

Fortunately for me, I guess, none of those reasons affect me at all. I'm not ***, I really don't even know anyone who is ***, I don't have anything to do with immigration, I've never been questioned under the patriot act, I'm not a woman and therefore abortion would not really be an issue for me. Being a white christian male, however, I guess gives me some amnesty in a way. I do see where you're coming from. I don't think I could use these reasons to claim that Bush is any worse than Kerry, however. I really have only just started deciding for myself whether or not I agree with Bush in the past few weeks, and therefore I haven't entirely been able to consider a lot of things. I would actually be interested to see what you could expand upon, Hydro, even if it looks like Bush is going to win regardless right now.

[Kisenger]

Just to go off topic but have any of you ever read "When the wind hits the brain" at least thats what I believe its called. Its really interesting to read, its all about what teh CIA used to do to try and find ways to make people talk using drugs like LSD.

[Hydro]

Fortunately for me, I guess, none of those reasons affect me at all. I'm not ***, I really don't even know anyone who is ***, I don't have anything to do with immigration, I've never been questioned under the patriot act, I'm not a woman and therefore abortion would not really be an issue for me. Being a white christian male, however, I guess gives me some amnesty in a way. I do see where you're coming from. I don't think I could use these reasons to claim that Bush is any worse than Kerry, however. I really have only just started deciding for myself whether or not I agree with Bush in the past few weeks, and therefore I haven't entirely been able to consider a lot of things. I would actually be interested to see what you could expand upon, Hydro, even if it looks like Bush is going to win regardless right now.


At least you are making decision on your own, and can make an intelligent post without flaming. I can respect anyones opinion when they are decent people at least.

Iraq - My main problem with the war in Iraq is that Bush refuses to admit that he made a mistake. We all know it was wrong to go in at this point, and we can see the toll it is taking financially and in American lives. I won't bash on Bush for going in the first place as almost all the Democrats voted for it (I never thought it was a good idea). My problem is that he took so much attention away from Afghanistan, and is not coming up with a new plan for the current state there. He is also maintaining that there were WMD's in Iraq.

Terrorism - I think the "War on Terror" is becoming more and more unfocused. Bush refused to testify on the 9/11 commision, and there are no changes being made to the communication between the CIA or FBI. Funding has been cut for guards in border states. The "Terror Alert" scale was more of a propoganda tool than an actual useful alert system. Bush is ignoring the fact that while we invaded Iraq, 2 more countries got nuclear weapons. Bush cut our former treaty with South Korea called the "Sunshine Policy", effectively severing all communication with North Korea.

Economy - I will give Bush a little credit here, I do think the tax cuts for small business is a good idea. I like the plans for temporary work visas. I do NOT like the tax cuts for the wealthy individuals, and I do not like the tax breaks for companys that outsource. I think Kerry has a good plan with standardized national health, which I will roll into the Economy ball.

Enviroment - Bush is horrible for the enviroment. He refused to sign the Kyoto treaty, he wants to drill in an Alaskan wildlife refuge, and he gives tax breaks to people who drive gas guzzling SUVs. He has cut funding from the EPA, and is loosening standards for national energy companies.

Morality - I do disagree with *** marriage, but I do agree with civil unions. I do like more limits on abortion, but don't want it completely outlawed. I am for the death penalty. Some of the "moral" issues are areas where I differ from Kerry, but I think they are secondary to the issues of foreign policy at this current time.

[Sage the Mage]

Yeah its definately in the bag for Bush now, unless you can come up with about 200,000 absentee ballots.

The last thing to wonder about is the exit polls:
It seems a lot of them were calling it for Kerry.

[Hydro]

Yeah its definately in the bag for Bush now, unless you can come up with about 200,000 absentee ballots.

The last thing to wonder about is the exit polls:
It seems a lot of them were calling it for Kerry.

Bush has it. Im going to go cry myself to sleep.

[Eiger]

It's all down to Ohio. Kerry cannot win without it. The best he could hope to do is 269 which sends the election to the House where he'd lose.

But if he somehow pulls out Ohio, he will win. But I'm not thinking it's likely at this point. To alleviate impending major beeping depression I'm gonna go play wow. Beep this.

[GaiaWombat]

Yeah, looks like we're gonna have another 4 Bushy years. Fox News has already called Ohio for Bush. Well, at least he won the popular vote this time, which I hope will reduce some of the garbage that we saw following the 2000 elections.

Anyway, I have to say that I can't back Bush on a lot of things. There are a few of your points, Hydro, that I may disagree with, but there are plenty of policies that I find objectionable with the Bush administration. I still stand by the fact that he is not going to obliterate our country, though, and if I could vote, I probably still would (or would have, I guess) voted Bush, just because I don't think I could ever get behind Kerry. I really am a republican at heart, but perhaps if there was a better candidate representing the Dems, I would have supported him. I think the best we can do for now, though, is just hope that we don't have to decide between a douche bag and a turd sandwich for presidentin '08, and cross our fingers that nobody does anything too stupid between now and then.

[Hydro]

McCain for president 2008.

[Ifrit18]

Republicans seemed to have gained slightly more power in the Senate.

Seems Bush will have 4 more years. However, the Senate still has a good number of Democrats and Bush will not get his ways like he did before.

[Drakeon]

Hmm, I guess the run of Bush Vs Bush is over because lets face it, Bush was running against himself. The reason everyone (ok nearly everyone) gave for voting for Kerry was because he WASN'T Bush.

I really look forward to 2008, I was dreading this year as I really didn't want either candidate. I'm hoping for one of these 3 in 08 to win the republican nomination: McCain, Giuliani (I think thats how you spell it, Mayor of New York), or the Governator (Yes I realize its currently impossible, but things could change.)

Not to derail the thread, but just bringing up another topic that might provoke some interesting discussion.... And yes its way too early, but I'm bored :p

[Ifrit18]

Arnold for Priesident! 2008

Go Go to the polls and vote! :teeth:

[Andarcel]

I do think the tax cuts for small business is a good idea. Most of that money never touched small businesses, unfortunately.

[WiglyWorm]

Foxnews and MSNBC websites have projected Ohio for Bush, MSNBC's station says too close to call, CNN's website says too close to call, and ABC hasn't weighed in.. this is going to be interesting.

[Felicia]

It's still possible for Kerry to win, or for the election to tie. But the possibility of having Bush re-elected is pretty high.

This would then make it 5 republican victories in the last twenty years, Reagan twice, Bush 41, and Bush 43 twice. Still, it's hard to really say if the American populace is really becoming more conservative or simply because the Democrats can't get a candidate to compete well against Republican candidates.

Reagan's amazing speeches and witty dialogue. His urging the people to vote for Bush 41. Bush's brutal honesty over Gore's droning voice and heavy spinning. Kerry's flip-floping and uneagerness to really come forward and give the people a better idea of what he means when he says he plans to do better than Bush against some issues. Honestly, Howard Dean probably would've been a much more difficult, and more believable candidate to fight against Bush.

Still, it's not over yet, there's still a chance for Kerry to pull through and Bush to lose. Though I don't think we'll have to wait too long to make an accurate call.

[Andarcel]

Foxnews and MSNBC websites have projected Ohio for Bush, MSNBC's station says too close to call, CNN's website says too close to call, and ABC hasn't weighed in.. this is going to be interesting.
No it isn't. If you go look at the numbers, Bush leads by 2% with 97% reporting. It's Bush's. That means the best Kerry could possibly do is a tie (unless almost all of the remaining votes are Kerry, which is basically incredibly unlikely). Even a tie at this point is basically impossible, from what I saw of the polls in the remaining states. And if it did happen, Kerry would lose in the House of Representatives. So it's over. *Cue powermonger gloat*

[WiglyWorm]

Sorry, I live in Ohio.

It may be 3 am but there are actually still people who need to vote.

By Ohio court mandate; if you are in line by the time polls closed, you must be allowed to vote. Most of these people are the youth vote wich leans towards Kerry. Also, it is projected that there are upwards of 175,000 provisional ballots wich need to be counted. If the margin of victory (currently bush leads by 125,000, and there are still votes out there) is less than the number of provisional ballots, wich I predict it will be.. it gets interesting. Why? Because Ohio state law dictates than provisional ballots cannot be counted untill 10 days after the general election. This means we will very likely be waiting 10-11 days for official word on Ohio.

If Kerry gets Wisconsin (Michigan is called for Kerry by Fox, and CNN, no word from ABC or MSNBC), then Bush can only get the 270 votes needed to win without Ohio, thusly the above scenary could very well come into play, and yes.. it will be interesting.

For those of you interested: Wisconsin has a 1 pt lead in Wisconsin.

Edit: fact checking, re-wording, adding details. Forgive me i've been up since 7 am.

[niteshade6]

Alot of this reminds me of why I really hate the political party system that we have. There were a number of strong Republican leaders who could probably have easily beaten Bush for president, and who would have easily done a far better job then him. But because of our political system, they can't run against him and we are forced to choose from a much weaker selection of democratic candidates. But at least in 2008 we will hopefuly get a better choice. As it stands, at least it's unlikely that Bush will screw things up as much this term as he did last term. I don't think the American people (or the world as a whole) will tolerate another war in the next 4 year years for example.

[WiglyWorm]

This just in: President Bush is going to make an adress "soon", whatever that means. Turn on your TV sets or go to http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5936718/

[powermongor]

No it isn't. If you go look at the numbers, Bush leads by 2% with 97% reporting. It's Bush's. That means the best Kerry could possibly do is a tie (unless almost all of the remaining votes are Kerry, which is basically incredibly unlikely). Even a tie at this point is basically impossible, from what I saw of the polls in the remaining states. And if it did happen, Kerry would lose in the House of Representatives. So it's over. *Cue powermonger gloat*

Sorry I've been away from forum, the internet went down for a few hours.

There will be no gloating from me. Although it is not over yet, you would be correct in assuming I am incredibly pleased at how events have unfolded. I am now interested in seeing my candidate win a conclusive victory, and then getting along again with everyone on this forum and in my immediate life.

[WiglyWorm]

I'm a political junkie, and while i'm having alot of fun with 5 browser tabs on netscape keeping better track of the election than MSNBC is, I can't wait for it to be over. At least we'll have 2-3 years with only mild partisan hate.

[WiglyWorm]

I'm a political junkie, and while i'm having alot of fun with 5 browser tabs on netscape keeping better track of the election than MSNBC is, I can't wait for it to be over. At least we'll have 2-3 years with only mild partisan hate.


While it's hardly official: Congrats to Bush.

Ohio officials (not election officials but elected officials :lol:) have essentially said "hey, come on Kerry, you'll have to have pretty much 100% of the provisional ballots to win Ohio", and according to the numbers i'm looking at, they're right. In other words: after the provisional ballots, Bush wins. That'd put him at 269, and he's definatley going to carry, at the very least, 1 more state, wich gives him 3 more electoral votes, wich gives him 272. You heard it here first.

[Elevander]

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/OH/P/00/index.html

Ohio is currently 99% completed processing votes, and Bush has about 100k more than Kerry. That's not a lot for a whole state.

[Mastgrr]

But, contrary to popular belief, your life won't be changing in significant ways. Bush isn't a wonderful president, but he can't single-handedly destroy this country.As an American living abroad, I have to say that the mentality from "Bush is stupid/evil" is probably going to change to "American is stupid/evil because they reelected Bush".

It's hard being an American in foreign countries these days. More difficult than the American public appearantly think.

[Elevander]

As an American living abroad, I have to say that the mentality from "Bush is stupid/evil" is probably going to change to "American is stupid/evil because they reelected Bush".

It's hard being an American in foreign countries these days. More difficult than the American public appearantly think.
I'm an American, currently in Japan on foreign exchange, and the Japanese people are really friendly, and they even like to chat American politics with me sometimes.

[Oberon]

As an American living abroad, I have to say that the mentality from "Bush is stupid/evil" is probably going to change to "American is stupid/evil because they reelected Bush".

A Bush victory would be a very sad reflection of America's voters. In 2000 Bush ran as a moderate ("uniter-not-divider") and even though he squeaked by winning the election with fewer votes than Gore, he still proceeding with the most right-wing policies in recent history as though he won by a mandate. In this election we all know exactly what Bush stands for: tax cuts for the rich, preemptive warfare, massive deficit spending, massive corporate welfare, and supression of civil liberties. Knowing all this, a larger percentage of Americans have voted for Bush in 2004 than in 2000. For four years many of us, embarrassed by Bush's policies, have dismissed him as illegitimate due to the 2000 Supreme Court fiasco. It appears we no longer have that comfort and must now realize just how low our nation's electorate has fallen and seriously ask ourselves if it's worth the effort in 2008. A second Bush term will be far more radical than the first Bush term, especially with greater Republican control of Congress. Democrats fought against Bush because we knew his policies were bad for America. But this is what the nation apparently wants and I believe the Democrats should let them have it. Let Bush drive the nation into the dirt. I believe it's time for hard-love with the American electorate.

[Elevander]

According to CNN.com, Ohio has now finished processing their votes -- Bush won there. Same link I posted above.

[Gastone]

If i was an american,i would feel pitty for a Bush reelection.He messed up your economy,trampled many civil rights and alieneted U.S. from the rest of the world,except Russia,Italy and England.Not to mention that his policy in middle east has provoked the hostility of all muslim nations,except Kuweit.He is over-conservative,ridiculously religious and too much inflexible in his foreign policy.

Kerry,from the other hand,may luck Bush's commanding ability and firm concentration in his policy,but guaranteed a better interior policy,with tax cuts and a more human medical system.He would also improve U.S. relations with Europe,and give the rest of the world a view of U.S. as a more liberal and friendly nation.Also,i dont see any results in this "war against terrorism" Bush started,simlpy because you cant destroy terrorism by invading countries,using massive military force and putting diplomacy aside.

As a european,i would say that Bush's re-election is more in our interest,because he seems eager to continue his policy,thus alieneting even more U.S. from the rest of the world.And these countries who lost faith in an aliance with the U.S. will most likely turn to Europe for a new coalition of interests and closer cooperation,thus strenghtening our position in global politics.

[Mastgrr]

The race is not over yet!

Ohio need to count their provisional ballots.

[Tevush Kasht]

Bleh, Bush has an advantage in popular votes of almost 4 million. It would just be undemocratic if he didn't win. The people have spoken, Bush it is.

[Unreg!stered]

I'd say it's pretty much a Bush victory unless something crazy happens. On that, note, however, I do believe the democrats need to take this as a sign to get off their asses and nominate someone who can actually run against the Republican candidates. The current slate for '08 on the Republican side appears to be McCain, Guiliani, and Arnold (might be possible). Neither of the last two democratic nominees could beat Bush, what chance would they have against a McCain or a Guiliani? The democrats need to find a good candidate who can stand on his own beliefs to run and trust me, Hillary isn't the person for the job. You can only blame the American people and the electoral system so much before you have to realize that you cannot put a Gore or a Kerry up against the Republican machine and hope to win.

Anyways, congrats to Bush. This time he's got the popular vote behind him too.

[Andarcel]

I'd say it's pretty much a Bush victory unless something crazy happens. On that, note, however, I do believe the democrats need to take this as a sign to get off their asses and nominate someone who can actually run against the Republican candidates. The current slate for '08 on the Republican side appears to be McCain, Guiliani, and Arnold (might be possible). Neither of the last two democratic nominees could beat Bush, what chance would they have against a McCain or a Guiliani? The democrats need to find a good candidate who can stand on his own beliefs to run and trust me, Hillary isn't the person for the job. You can only blame the American people and the electoral system so much before you have to realize that you cannot put a Gore or a Kerry up against the Republican machine and hope to win.

Anyways, congrats to Bush. This time he's got the popular vote behind him too.
McCain won't win. It will be some other ******* who pulls some incredible filth to get the nom. Just like 2000. Funny how all these McCain supporters are so ready to forgive Bush for what he did to McCain. And they'll forgive whatever other sleazebag uses pushpolling to beat McCain in the 2008 primaries.

This is the worst possible outcome. Inevitable Bush win delayed by ten days. Ten days of Edwards uber-optimism. Oh joy.

[DarthKirby001]

Bleh, Bush has an advantage in popular votes of almost 4 million. It would just be undemocratic if he didn't win. The people have spoken, Bush it is.

You know he *did* lose the popular vote last go 'round, right? :P

But anyway...maybe now all the democrats won't complain this year that Bush "stole" the election, as he won both the popular and electoral votes this time.

And for all you furious democrats who can't believe Bush won and refuse to live with him as president again...I hear Canada is nice this time of year. Wait...what am I saying? It's Canada. I bet they've got 10 inches of snowfall packed up already in sub-zero temperatures :lol:

[Elorion]

Bush is evil. Bush did this. Bush did that. The reason Bush is a "great" president is because he had the balls to make the desission to go to Iraq weather you think its the right thing to do or not. He does what he believes is right. On the other hand Kerry needs a poll to tell him what is right. You can argue agaisnt this but if you do, your just kidding yourself and I will be laughing at you under my breath.

Bush is a "Great" president. Im not going to argue with you people about things that have happened in his last term, I am just stating my oppion. 80% of the people that voted for Bush, voted because they liked him as a president. The people that voted for Kerry, though I have seen many different numbers, they all point out one thing. There are more people voting aginst Bush then for Kerry. How could Kerry possibly win that way with the country so split?

Funny how the race really came down to morality and principles. Thank God that there are still 50% of the people in this country that still believe in right and wrong. Or my bad 51%.

[Sage the Mage]

Its gonna be Rudolph for the next election. Against? Edwards or Clinton so far. I'd guess Edwards because the Dems are gonna be looking to try and get at least one southern state the next time around.

[Elorion]

And for all you furious democrats who can't believe Bush won and refuse to live with him as president again...I hear Canada is nice this time of year. Wait...what am I saying? It's Canada. I bet they've got 10 inches of snowfall packed up already in sub-zero temperatures :lol:
No FRANCE!!! MOVE TO FRANCE!!! I guess Quabec works, BUT MOVE TO FRANCE!!! You'll make alot of money off the Oil for foods program. :lol: Oh wait, Sadam isnt in power anymore. Where are the French going to get money for Alcohol.

[Sage the Mage]

Funny how the race really came down to morality and principles. Thank God that there are still 50% of the people in this country that still believe in right and wrong. Or my bad 51%.
This is the thing that worries me the most about the election.

[AgeOfAbnegation]

LOL, I just get here and this thread is 3 pages long :lol:.

Behold, the culmination of all your threads on American politics :).

ahem..

:lol:

:bow:

[BrimSt0ne M0nkey]

:(:(Bush Won:(:(

*blows the dust off of rifle*

[Salazar]

Its gonna be Rudolph for the next election. Against? Edwards or Clinton so far. I'd guess Edwards because the Dems are gonna be looking to try and get at least one southern state the next time around.Not Edwards, he gave up his seat in the Senate to run for Vice President.

[Hydro]

This is the thing that worries me the most about the election.

I agree. 100%

[Hydro]

McCain won't win. It will be some other ******* who pulls some incredible filth to get the nom. Just like 2000. Funny how all these McCain supporters are so ready to forgive Bush for what he did to McCain. And they'll forgive whatever other sleazebag uses pushpolling to beat McCain in the 2008 primaries.

This is the worst possible outcome. Inevitable Bush win delayed by ten days. Ten days of Edwards uber-optimism. Oh joy.

If the democrats failed to come up with another viable option by 2008, I would bet many of them would be willing to vote for McCain just to ensure another hard right candidate wouldn't be in office. I know I would. That being said, I think Illinois new senator is a very likely future Democratic president. The party this year needs to spend less time with 8 prospectives, and more time pushing behind their singular choice.

[Andarcel]

Bush is evil. Bush did this. Bush did that. The reason Bush is a "great" president is because he had the balls to make the desission to go to Iraq weather you think its the right thing to do or not. That says it all. He may be totallly, 100% wrong, but by golly he did something! Hurray! Of course, the same can be said of his plans to invade Iran and Syria, and probably China somewhere down the road.

Bush is a "great" (I love the quotes by the way) president the same way the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved American lives.

[Andarcel]

If the democrats failed to come up with another viable option by 2008, I would bet many of them would be willing to vote for McCain just to ensure another hard right candidate wouldn't be in office. I know I would. That being said, I think Illinois new senator is a very likely future Democratic president. The party this year needs to spend less time with 8 prospectives, and more time pushing behind their singular choice.
Oh the dems would. The Reps won't put him up in the primaries though, because he had the nerve to adopt a black child.

[powermongor]

Its gonna be Rudolph for the next election. Against? Edwards or Clinton so far. I'd guess Edwards because the Dems are gonna be looking to try and get at least one southern state the next time around.

Edwards' presidential ambitions are over.

[Hydro]

Oh the dems would. The Reps won't put him up in the primaries though, because he had the nerve to adopt a black child.

I know damn it. One of the only Republicans I would vote for will never win because the Republicans won't vote for him.

[Andarcel]

Its gonna be Rudolph for the next election. Against? Edwards or Clinton so far. I'd guess Edwards because the Dems are gonna be looking to try and get at least one southern state the next time around.
I'm with Hydro, Obama all the way.

Bright spot: Reps are going to have to live with Bush now for four more years without any Democrat bogeyman they can say would be even worse. It's ALL on you now. And believe me, we will be relentless in holding you accountable for the whole schbang. In the Navy, if a ship goes down, the CO is automatically held responsible. Always. No exceptions.

The standard for the POTUS should be twice as high. And we will work as hard as possible to make sure it is. No more "I didn't know." You should have asked. No more "They did it without my approval." You should have control of your own people. No more "the economy is 9/11's fault." 9/11 caused a mild recession. You hasve managed the worst recovery from it since the Great Depression. No more "the War on terror is causing the deficit." That's no answer to give to our children who will suffer in our country's bankruptcy.

When he abandons Iraq as a mess, when he increases the deficit, when he breaks all his campaign promises as he did in the first four years asnd pawns it off on subordinates he won't fire, we will be holding him accountable.

No more excuse presidency. Your failures are your own.

[Hydro]

I agree with Andarcel. After these next four years the GOP will be helpless to withstand the wrath of their own party dissidents (McCain) and the new Democratic powerhouses (Obama). We will get either a liberal or a moderate, and I doubt we will need to fear another hard conservative administration.

[Hydro]

Edwards' presidential ambitions are over.

Sadly I think so as well.
He would be an extremely valuable campaign tool in the south in 2008 though.

Am I looking to 2008 already?
You betcha!

My campaigning in Texas may have been fruitless, but damn if even our local guys aren't closing the gap.

[Glurin]

Whoever it was who said you guys are just being drama queens, I 100% agree.

"Waaah!!! Bush won! We are all going to die! I'm moveing somewhere else!" :rolleyes:

[GaiaWombat]

Whoever it was who said you guys are just being drama queens, I 100% agree.

"Waaah!!! Bush won! We are all going to die! I'm moveing somewhere else!" :rolleyes:

Heh, I don't think I phrased it that way, but yes, that is basically what I was trying to get across.

[Hydro]

Whoever it was who said you guys are just being drama queens, I 100% agree.

"Waaah!!! Bush won! We are all going to die! I'm moveing somewhere else!" :rolleyes:

It's called having passion in something, and it will fade.