Will the Alliance ever be able to beat the Horde...?

[RavenFirecaster]

*warning: mild rant mode enabled*

It never ceases to amaze me when I see just how poorly Alliance players interact with one another. I played as a human paladin in the first stress test and a night-elven priest in this past open beta. I played on non-PvP servers. In both instances, it seemed that the Horde CONSTANTLY held the upper-hand when it came to raids, both in defending their lands and in attacking our lands. Are horde races that much better? Were the players that much higher of a level? Why was the Alliance constantly getting their arses handed to them?

I've thought about it, spoken with other players of Warcraft and Everquest, and it seems to boil down to one constant: "evil" races tend to be played by the die-hard gamers, while "good" races tend to be played by the more casual gamer. All of the horde "victories" I saw in my experiences and have read about on these forums seem to be the result of planning, cooperation, and organization, not "better" or "stronger" character builds, and I believe that most casual gamers just can't become immersed enough in the game world to form the bonds needed to cooperate with others in a massive raid.

I'll give a very brief description of what I saw on my wife's screen (and heard about and read on other forums) happen on Test 19 last night. Alliance players seemed to be full of excitement of the prospect of being able to brag about personal glories. I got the impression they were saying "I'm gonna kill X Horde" rather than "We're gonna kill X Horde". Few of these players were in their 20's. Most were in their teens; a few were single-digits. They'd talk up a storm of nonsense in the raid channel, yelling and screaming and jumping around before the fight. They'd run around trying to duel each other, with the bloodlust running high and patience running low. People split from the group left and right as they made their way separately south from Auberdine. Though I didn't stay awake long enough to watch the actual fight, from what I read and heard there was no organization. Period.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this admittedly disorganized rambling. :D I can't stand on a soap box screaming "Grow up! Be patient! Work together!" because it's not my right to do so. I can't complain too much when an organized horde raid comes stomping through my lands, because I'll be untouchable (non-PvP server, remember) and will be able to walk past on my merry way.

I guess I'm just... disappointed, that my Alliance brethern don't seem to care as much about teamwork as the Horde appear to...

[Hydro]

There are a few very well organized Alliance guilds (peruse I Linte Macil if you want to see the height of organization), but generally most of the alliance guilds I have seen are filled with people who don't know the first thing about organization.

Also I think the casual/hardcore gamer is right in a sense, and also players that are new to MMORPGs tend to pick the more familiar races, i.e. humans.

I think it really boils down to Tauren though, something about seeing other Tauren makes you want to band together with them...

[GoldnAngel]

My husband has made many good points here. I was involved in that so called raid. We all stormed down to the Barrens but my Alliance members decided to started attacking guards instead of going around. That killed many of them. Those of us who were smart enough to go around, didn't make it very far. The Horde attacked us from behind.

I managed to hearthstone back to Auberdine. From there, I flew back to Astranaar where I tried to organize our defense. As the raid groups gathered, the majority went to try another full out offense. There were not many left to defend our home.

As the Horde gathered closer to our defense team, we finally got some reinforcements from our Allies. Us night elves thank the humans, dwarves, and, of course, the gnomes too. After the first battle at Astranaar, many of those reinforcements left to join our offense, again leaving our defenses small....

Our small group managed to defend all the attacks from the Horde. How? I have no idea. I believe it is something about defending our home that drives us to keep going and not give up.

[FrozenYak]

well, we also havent exactly gotten to a high enough level to experience this all properly

At low levels everyones doin anything, and usually everythings a mess. By the time it reachs lvl 60 many people have been weeded out and everyone knows their characters better.

But I do agree on the "evil" thing, because generally people who want to kill everything choose the evil races it seems. I mean, my younger brother always goes with the evil races, and he is very good at pvp. However hes never gotten past lvl 42 in a mmorpg lol. Like i said, this is only the start. People who just love to fight have no problem getting to lvl 20-30 and doing that, but many of them also dont like to put in the effort to keep advancing their char - they usually instead head to some other instantanious fighting game.

[EssenceOfAngels]

Will the alliance ever beat the horde ? Will the horde ever beat the alliance ?

the answer to both questions will be yes !! and many times in both ways :)

One of the things you gotta realize i think you already have from what you've said is that, alot of Elf players just want to have fun, maybe even interact and play around @ the elf villages and chat and what not, but at the same time many of them might not be die hard gamers like most of the orc players are gunna be, as a matter of fact i'd venture to say that the orcs in my opinion ( since i dont really know) will probably be killing more elves than elves will be killing orcs. however this doesnt have to apply to your character in particular.

i prefur to keep the entire war to my own personal level. 1 how many times have i killed orcs and 2. how many times have i been slain by orcs. as long as i'm killing more of them than i'm dying to them, i am content.

gg and gl

[DarknessCrusader]

I am Horde. I am not evil. I am not a warmonger. I prefer questing to raiding. I prefer defending to attacking. I will keep my lord, Thrall's image untarnished. I am Horde.

Most evils I see are done from either the Gnomes and Humans or from the Undead. And there are ALOT more Humans and Gnomes than Undead. But yes, there will be evils commited no matter what race is concerned... even unfortunately through the hands of one of my Tauren brothers (and that seems very very wrong!)

I use to be Alliance. Alliance was unorganised and self-centered. Alliance made me feel weak and unimportant. I tried Horde. Horde was helpful and informative. Horde was willing where Alliance was selfish. Horde makes me feel like family.

I am Horde.

[FrozenYak]

bob dole doesnt need this...

I dont think anyone was saying that ALL horde like to fight, just that that is a general trend that seems to happen.

As for how helpful people are...:) we all know that has only to do with who is on, and who you meet. If you were to play lineage 1 where people can be slaughtered by pkers before they ever have time to start the game you will generally hear 2 different stories from them. One is "I almost quit when I start because I kept getting killed everytime I left town", and another is "I met a nice person/guild who helped me get started".

[Lanlord]

I played horde, horde rocks.

I do however, have to shoot myself in the foot for a second. We too are plagued with ******ation. Like, for example, morons who decided to attack the guards in ashtrinar. That pulled probably 20 evil blue big ear people into our nice mob. The mob scattered as they all got slaughtered by the guards. Then, mr /3 COMMAND goes ahead and attacks them again, insisting we can take them. Idiot... On a seperate raid, we just went around to dark(vale? wood?) and killed much, then got beat back by the huge mob of alliance. I have, however not heard of many attacks on undead territory... Perhaps the horde's player base is inheiretly more aggressive.

[Priest68]

Alliance really seems like a lot younger of a crowd who plays that side of the world. Played Alliance with my friends for Open beta. Played a bit of Horde for Open beta as well. Sorry but the Horde really does seem to have more skilled players. Or I should say more mature. More of the power gamers seem to be on the Horde side. Played Horde and Alliance quite a bit in closed beta. Still liked the Horde side better.

[Dragon Reborn]

I'm planning to play Alliance despite all the dicouraging news of them..(although it has dicouraged me a bit)....I like the Horde but I LOVE NE's, I hope there aren't too many immature (among other stuff that people said) people on my server... I do however plan to try and gather or group with the *few mature and serious and well organized ones..), I think that playing with them will be more enjoyable...

*The only reason I say 'few' is because of all the stuff people have been saying about the alliance. I can not comment because I myself wasn't in the beta... I hope its not true but hope only goes so far...

[Havard]

In closed beta, I'd say I came across few "n00bs" in the Alliance.

There were many good organized PvP guilds, and many solo PvPers as well. Sure there were idiots in the low-levels, but I think I stopped seeing the n00bs much somewhere after level 35. Most 40+ players exhibited patience, communication skills, and teamwork.

Open beta brought out the n00bs again, I can't tell you how many times I or friends almost died and other Alliance players just sat and watched (mainly around Mo'grosh ogres :grrr: .) If you play enough, you'll see that the good players stick it out and stick together, on both sides.

[MajinFro]

You also have to remember that it's pretty well known that people that pick the good guys are more likely to be jackasses then the guys that pick the bad guys. Best way to witness this is to go into a chat focused on some game/anime/movie/universe where you have clearly defined bad and good guys. 99% of the time the good guys are causing problems.

[Hydro]

In closed beta, I'd say I came across few "n00bs" in the Alliance.

There were many good organized PvP guilds, and many solo PvPers as well. Sure there were idiots in the low-levels, but I think I stopped seeing the n00bs much somewhere after level 35. Most 40+ players exhibited patience, communication skills, and teamwork.

Open beta brought out the n00bs again, I can't tell you how many times I or friends almost died and other Alliance players just sat and watched (mainly around Mo'grosh ogres :grrr: .) If you play enough, you'll see that the good players stick it out and stick together, on both sides.

I agree, if you stick it out for a long time, both sides begin to really even out. If you look on PvP server 1, you had Nurfed, AfterlifeX, and a couple of others, while on the alliance side you had DIE (Worst guild ever), Kali Compton (now Kalifornya). Misfits, Dogma, and some others. After a while, the alliance side does get the upperhand with skilled players, but at the start it seems to favor horde. I think retail will see some inbalance at the start, but after about a month I don't think there will be a noticeable difference.

[DarknessCrusader]

I don't know about all that. My wife was pro-Alliance and still wants to be a Night Elf more than anything else... but she just doesn't have the patience to deal with all the a-holes over on that side.

Luckily I got her to try out the Tauren and now she has a race to fall back on since Night Elves are on the bastard side.

Also, she likes the undead for some reason. I still don't trust them tho'...

Afterthought... can we trade the Forsaken for the Elves? :P

[FrozenYak]

well, one of the biggest problems is obviously the night elves:)

There are, and will always be a massive following of fan boys for elves. For that reason alone you can answer why it is the horde can invide elven territory so easily, why it is people keep saying they hate the morons on the night elven side, etc, etc.

I mean honestly, I started in open beta and got nothing but help on my gnome when I asked for it. Even just hunting around, everytime i came upon a quest that was too hard for me i suddenly found myself in a group of people doing the quest together.

[Senjo]

I agree with Hydro and Havard, I think it's a matter of getting to the higher level areas. I found the collective intelligence/maturity improved just by getting to Loch Modan... :thumbsup:

[Unreg!stered]

From what I've seen playing the first stress test, the second stress test and open beta the "big three" races the a-holes tend to gravitate too are (in no particular order) Humans, Undead and Night Elves. Undead are the most evil of the races in WoW so you get some assholes over there, the humans are the most familiar looking and the Night Elves are the most aesthetically pleasing. All the races, though, suffer their share of a-holes. However, it seems as if the Tauren usually luck out in the a-hole department; I haven't found too many over in Mulgore. :D

[Havard]

I don't know about all that. My wife was pro-Alliance and still wants to be a Night Elf more than anything else... but she just doesn't have the patience to deal with all the a-holes over on that side.

Luckily I got her to try out the Tauren and now she has a race to fall back on since Night Elves are on the bastard side.

Also, she likes the undead for some reason. I still don't trust them tho'...

Afterthought... can we trade the Forsaken for the Elves? :P

A suggestion for your wife:

ILM is very organized and dedicated to helping out members before personal gain, and the Garden Gnomes are perfect if your wife has a more relaxed play style. Either way, both guilds are allied, will be on the same server, and include lots of friendly and mature people. :thumbsup:

[Chaosas]

There are many noobs in Horde too :) Noobs in other terms than level.
When I was in one raid, the leader invited about 30 people, said that was enough and started running towards Ashenvale, non stop till we reached alliance raid group ehading towards crossroads. By that ime, about half of our raid were behind (because leader was running toward slike crazy) some newbies were killed by high lvl mobs, etc. We were owned :)

[Pietoro]

I think it really boils down to Tauren though, something about seeing other Tauren makes you want to band together with them...

Animal magnetism. ^_~


...And the Horde are not 'Evil' or 'The Bad Guys'.... the Burning Legion are the TRUE enemies of Azeroth. The Alliance/Horde split is not based on one side being 'right' and the other side being 'wrong'. Even a basic skim of the storyline shows that.

This misconception is so widespread its really starting to bother me. :/ I don't want people who want to be thugs or 'bad guys' swarming to the Horde and acting like punks, just because they think the Horde = Evil.

[Ravashak]

Animal magnetism. ^_~


...And the Horde are not 'Evil' or 'The Bad Guys'.... the Burning Legion are the TRUE enemies of Azeroth. The Alliance/Horde split is not based on one side being 'right' and the other side being 'wrong'. Even a basic skim of the storyline shows that.

This misconception is so widespread its really starting to bother me. :/ I don't want people who want to be thugs or 'bad guys' swarming to the Horde and acting like punks, just because they think the Horde = Evil.
blame Warcraft 1/2 and their looks =þ

[Chaosas]

From the Horde side, Alliance is evil. They break peace treaties and invade their lands.
Of course burning legion IS the main enemy. I played as an orc warlock in Horde, and it was very fun, because many NPC's were suspecting me of being loyal to burning legion, even threatened me :thumbsup:

[Pietoro]

blame Warcraft 1/2 and their looks =þ

If you take pieces of the story out of context and ignore the -current- state of the plot in WC3 and TFT, well sure. But that's misinformed opinion, still.

And yeah, the whole 'they look like me (human) so they must be good guys' thing is pretty much a common attitude. Its still a nuisance.

[Havard]

And yeah, the whole 'they look like me (human) so they must be good guys' thing is pretty much a common attitude. Its still a nuisance.

How do you feel about the hard-core gankers who choose cute female gnome toons? :lol:

[Tar-Elendil]

At last I finally know, I wasnt paranoid, when i suggested to my friends in OB to change sides(alliance to horde) due to immature noob players...especially Night Elves.... It saddens me a hwole lot, cuz i love th pointy ears!! I always played NEs already from Warcarft 3. But as it is now, i only met 2 Night Elf players who were SKILLED. But the 2 i met were also much more skilled then the horde side.. One of the guys was lvl 22 NE hunter,(Korah from server 24) He aided me though i was at lvl 17... He helped me get to lvl 21 although he almost didnt advance himself. But anyways I saw him kill sometimes up to 3 horde players who were all higher lvl then him... I really didnt believe my eyes, cuz the guy slaughtered a 25 lvl shaman, troll hunter lvl 23 and a tauren druid lvl 20 and still had some hp left... It was really scary. THe bad thing is that we have become good friends, but now as the OB ends he will play the reail on US servers, while i cant as i live in Europe...

[Ravashak]

If you take pieces of the story out of context and ignore the -current- state of the plot in WC3 and TFT, well sure. But that's misinformed opinion, still.

And yeah, the whole 'they look like me (human) so they must be good guys' thing is pretty much a common attitude. Its still a nuisance.
Just for the record, I know the Horde isn't Evil, far from everyone played Warcraft 3, and before that, it was almost a definition that Orcs are evil.
That being said, i hate the current Horde, they assumed that they could make the Lordaeron Alliance (pre Warcraft 3) forgive them for a years of war which has taken almost an entire generation of ablebodied humans, dwarves, gnomes and elves, with just one act, the Mount Hyjal defense. This is one of the main reasons I will play the Alliance for at least my first two characters.

[zkajan]

i was going to play horde in retail so i picked a night elf in OB as a character i had no interest in playing and lo and behold I got quite attached to her

[Pongle]

Hordes player base is mega agressive to alliance because of all the owning they recieved when they couldn't play in Closed BETA, for some reason hearing about horde's getting kicked really makes we horde folks want to boot some arse.

I truly hate to wonder what Server 8 (apparently the place most of the aussies/kiwis will be) will do to humies - nobody likes humies over here, though we have a few lovers of NE/Dwarves.

[Chaosas]

I saw him kill sometimes up to 3 horde players who were all higher lvl then him... I really didnt believe my eyes, cuz the guy slaughtered a 25 lvl shaman, troll hunter lvl 23 and a tauren druid lvl 20 and still had some hp left... It was really scary. T


:surprise: Man, that is just incredible. So skill DOES mean a lot in PvP.

[Dark606]

as a matter of fact i'd venture to say that the orcs in my opinion ( since i dont really know) will probably be killing more elves than elves will be killing orcs. however this doesnt have to apply to your character in particular.
26 kills
12 deaths (many of them against more than 1)
:D

Be all that you can be, in the night elf army!

I am shadowmelded elf, I am an army of one!

[PointBlank]

So yes, I must say ... Tauren rock!

As for the "n00bs" issue ... i find that there's ppl who are new to the game (i've only dealt with them in mulgore) but i have found that they are quite nice and willing to learn and accept help ... as for "n00bs" those are just annoying *** people that spam the chat and are just rude people in general ... I stay out of the main chat now because of them ...

As for the humans, ne's, and undead being the most "n00bful" races ... well this is because they are the most popular, so the probability of having annoying people in those races is higher ...

Personally, I despise the NE's and humans ... those are my enemies! ... i've bagged quite a few of them ... I lead a guild and we've done raids and defence, and just questing ... altogether it's enjoyable no matter what you do ...

Anyways, I'm sticking with my Tauren come retail ... they are awesome ...

[Scorch_Hellfire]

well... according to warcraft lore... the alliance has already beat the horde...

anyways.... i dont know what it is... its a very strange thing when it comes to picking the alliance or the horde...

personally... i love the horde... especially in war2... and i still do... maybe it was becuase they seemed more evil back then... i dont know... but i think ill be mostly playing alliance when it comes to wow... maybe becuz im human and like to play human... of course im also attracted to the undead... even though these undead are bastard traitors... i guess when it comes down to it... i side with neither... id rather be on the side of the sourge... and im also fond of the burning legion... i guess its just my attraction to the evil side(which is why warlox are my favorite class)... and now that the horde has become more good, its lost that certain coolness that they had in war2... of course i still dont really like the alliance in particular either... personally im glad that lordaeran was decimated... and it was having a hand in it too... :evil:

[Hopfrog]

Animal magnetism. ^_~


...And the Horde are not 'Evil' or 'The Bad Guys'.... the Burning Legion are the TRUE enemies of Azeroth. The Alliance/Horde split is not based on one side being 'right' and the other side being 'wrong'. Even a basic skim of the storyline shows that.

This misconception is so widespread its really starting to bother me. :/ I don't want people who want to be thugs or 'bad guys' swarming to the Horde and acting like punks, just because they think the Horde = Evil.

Anyone who is familiar with this games history should agree the Legion is the True enemy of Azeroth*points up*, agreed.Alliance and Horde were all affected by the Legion.Speaking of the Legion, there was(on this last night of OB) very high level ?? Massive Infernal in Darnassus wreaking havoc.My gf was playing her NE and I saw no warlock.The Infernal was not listed as a minion, as far as I remember.If I am right, I wonder if it was parting gift from Blizz, or a sign of trouble ahead.If I'm wrong, and there was a warlock,I'd like to know who it was!!!
)
:winner:

[Pietoro]

Oh my GOD, they DID send one to Darnassus! Damnit, I missed it!

I waited for like 15 mins for something to show up there after I saw the carnage at Stormwind, and nothing happened. It probably came right after I left or something. Gah! x_x

[Embries]

My first 2 characters were Alliance. First a Night Elf then a Dwarf. My 3rd character was a Troll. There is no question in my mind at all that the Horde side is more mature, willing to help, and all around more organized. Henceforth I will decidedly be going Horde in retail.

[powermongor]

Can't Alliance hop on the airships? I scoped it out as an undead toon. The tower in Brill is unguarded, can't Alliance players sneak on it and drop behind enemy lines in Orc lands and in Stranglethorn Vale?

[Grumpy Joe]

It seems that the same gamers who chose wood elves and halflings will be the same players who choose mostly alliance races. Guess I will stick with horde in the beginning.

[MasterMac]

Can't Alliance hop on the airships? I scoped it out as an undead toon. The tower in Brill is unguarded, can't Alliance players sneak on it and drop behind enemy lines in Orc lands and in Stranglethorn Vale?
There is one guard at the Orgrimmar tower and a few in the Stranglethorn tower...none that I remember on the UC tower.

However, except for the Stranglethorn one, the UC and Org towers are outside the city defenses...so they can't really use it to drop behind enemy lines :)

[GaiaWombat]

Alright, a couple of points here...

I think the whole alliance vs. horde issue really comes to maturity and "depth perception" if you will. IMO, many of the n00bs who play this game have the perception that Alliance=good, regardless. These people are shallow, most likely a little bit stupid, and really don't look deep into things. Meanwhile, on the Horde side, many of these are those who see deeper into the kinds of things like character development and realize that Horde does not always have to be evil, even if they are different. These people often times are more intelligent and capable of looking at things on more than one level. Realize, here, that I am not necessarily saying that all Alliance are stupid and all Horde are intelligent. Just a slight correlation, rather.
Another issue could be popularity; immature people are always looking to be on the winning side, which in their opinion is the most popular.


Also, I would like to point out that I don't think during the closed beta I never saw a really n00bish level 60 character. Sure there were your uber jackasses like the members of DIE and whatnot, but most of those with the patience to work hard and coordinate with others to get to level 60 seemed to be those with perhaps a better grasp on life. Being a jackass doesn't necessarily make you an idiot, you know.

Anyway, that's my two cents. Take it or leave it.

[Pietoro]

That being said, i hate the current Horde, they assumed that they could make the Lordaeron Alliance (pre Warcraft 3) forgive them for a years of war which has taken almost an entire generation of ablebodied humans, dwarves, gnomes and elves, with just one act, the Mount Hyjal defense.

You do realize that Thrall's -entire generation- had nothing to do with any bloodshed vs. humans, and were raised in inhumane, deplorable conditions (as slaves/gladiators). His uprising was justified, as his goals were to rid his race of Demonic influence and rebuild their honorable culture as a free people.

What more could Thrall do aside from his show of willingness to work with the Alliance against the Legion? What are the Orcs of Thrall's generation expected to do, sacrifice their lives on the altar of their forefather's sins, so the grudges of the Alliance can be fulfilled? Seriously, people have to move on at some point, and not say 'Well, your grandfathers killed my grandfathers, so you can't ever be redeemed!"

Thrall's Horde is a new Horde, once that can very well fit into Azeroth and live with the other races of the world. That the Alliance takes this 'holier than thou' attitude and has to constantly bring up ancient history to justify their attitude towards the Horde is ridiculous. Both sides treated each other poorly, but both sides need to grow up and move on, instead of letting their past control their future and stunt their growth, which happens to be just what the Burning Legion wants.

</end rant>

[RPGFJosh]

I can see where you're coming from with this. I noticed a much better community spirit amongst the Horde, quite apart from PvP. I put this down to a much stronger sense of racial identity, with closer ties binding the Horde races together. The Alliance players didn't seem to be bothered so much with socialising/teaming up, and (as an average, not in entirety) seemed to be quite a bit... less mature?
Playing as my Tauren Shaman, I was always very glad to see other Tauren out and about, and team up with other Horde players. Those Undead, of course, are a slightly different matter, but I definately got the sense of an uneasy alliance of convenience with them. I could quite happily do Undead quests and party with them, but give me a Tauren to team with any day.
For the Horde!

[MasterMac]

Alright, a couple of points here...

I think the whole alliance vs. horde issue really comes to maturity and "depth perception" if you will. IMO, many of the n00bs who play this game have the perception that Alliance=good, regardless. These people are shallow, most likely a little bit stupid, and really don't look deep into things. Meanwhile, on the Horde side, many of these are those who see deeper into the kinds of things like character development and realize that Horde does not always have to be evil, even if they are different. These people often times are more intelligent and capable of looking at things on more than one level. Realize, here, that I am not necessarily saying that all Alliance are stupid and all Horde are intelligent. Just a slight correlation, rather.
Another issue could be popularity; immature people are always looking to be on the winning side, which in their opinion is the most popular.


Also, I would like to point out that I don't think during the closed beta I never saw a really n00bish level 60 character. Sure there were your uber jackasses like the members of DIE and whatnot, but most of those with the patience to work hard and coordinate with others to get to level 60 seemed to be those with perhaps a better grasp on life. Being a jackass doesn't necessarily make you an idiot, you know.

Anyway, that's my two cents. Take it or leave it.

/agree :yep:

While I favor horde more, I also had a level 58 alliance toon on the CB servers, and I saw this pattern as well. It wasn't "bad" enough to keep me from making an alliance toon once retail comes (I plan to have characters on both sides, just with more emphasis on the horde), though.

[RavenFirecaster]

Darn... In a way, I'm saddened to see that so many people are agreeing with me. I was hoping that the general disorganization of the Alliance players was just tainted from a few isolated bad experiences.

Oh well. I guess I'll have to be the one to take up the torch and re-unify the Alliance. :D

[DarknessCrusader]

Oh well. I guess I'll have to be the one to take up the torch and re-unify the Alliance. :D

I wish you luck... for you're definitely going to need it.

[EssenceOfAngels]

you guys dont think too much do ya. its funny how you've all come acrossed to me as stereotypists because you all claim that all or (( a majority even )) of night elf players are " a holes " or "noob" or "immature" or whatever and your using how other people act as a basis for what race you want to play.

you act like you cant make friends with a night elf., you act like "all the good mature players are playing orc undead"

i play a night elf druid on the beta. i made it to level 25 and since it was my first time playing, i needed alot of help, i found help easilly. as a matter of fact out of the entire week i played the game i can only remember 1 player i didnt like, thats it.

so maybe why dont you guys stop and think for a minute that maybe your the A Hole ?? maybe you cant get along with ppl ?? maybe you like to hate everyone.

the problem isnt some "majority of people that are such jerks that you have nothing to do with" the problem is the way you look @ things and how you cant forgive if someones a jerk and get over it.

play whatever side you want just because you want to do it, not because of how other people act. thats rediculous.

as for me i'm going to be leading an elite night elf guild.

[RavenFirecaster]

you act like you cant make friends with a night elf., you act like "all the good mature players are playing orc undead"

My, you and your whining, barely coherent rambling certainly don't help our cause out one bit. *chuckle*

I /played for roughly 30 hours during the open beta, reaching level 19 with my Night Elven priest Shadowmance. (and earning at least 100 in cooking, fishing, tailoring, and enchanting) I played on Test Server 19, a PvE East Coast server. During my time playing, I met exactly two people who were polite and fun to talk with: Toluene and Celestina. I partied with a few other people for a few random quests and certainly have nothing bad to say about them, but they weren't memorable party-mates.

The rest of the time, I just felt a growing, gnawing pit of disappointment forming when I'd see the chat channels scroll with people who couldn't read quests or follow instructions, people who somehow managed to make it off Teldrassil and into Darkshore without actually learning how to play the game, and people who would make crude and ignorant comments about how HORRIBLE the game was and how bad the lag was, when everyone on the server was suffering through the same lag.

Now, I'll admit, I work during the day and was only able to login between 6-10pm at night. It's possible that, because of my schedule, I was running into the evening "kiddie-crowd". It's possible that, until I get into my 40's or 50's, I may never find a group of people I'm comfortable partying with. My standards may be set unfairly high. Or, it's possible that, once people have to start shelling out cash for the game, we'll start to see more mature players on the servers and start seeing people who want to work as a team and get their money's worth out of the game. Who knows...

[Kupotek]

Lvl 25 night elf priestess on Test 22. I will be playing alliance for retail simply because I like night elves. Call me shallow, I just know what I like.

[Boradon]

Not every Night Elf is just a fanboy...you going to let those hooligans tear down the elven name? I think not. Therefore, the more people that join up with the Alliance/the Night Elves, the better chance we'll have at defeating the horde.

[Boradon]

Not every Night Elf is just a fanboy...you going to let those hooligans tear down the elven name? I think not. Therefore, the more people that join up with the Alliance/the Night Elves, the better chance we'll have at defeating the horde. And, just to prove to some people that I'm really not just saying things because I'm a fanboy...I was a level 22 druid, and was able to kill a level 26/27 undead rogue several times shortly before the beta ended.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post. My browser keeps screwin' up.

[techie36]

You do realize that Thrall's -entire generation- had nothing to do with any bloodshed vs. humans, and were raised in inhumane, deplorable conditions (as slaves/gladiators). His uprising was justified, as his goals were to rid his race of Demonic influence and rebuild their honorable culture as a free people.

What more could Thrall do aside from his show of willingness to work with the Alliance against the Legion? What are the Orcs of Thrall's generation expected to do, sacrifice their lives on the altar of their forefather's sins, so the grudges of the Alliance can be fulfilled? Seriously, people have to move on at some point, and not say 'Well, your grandfathers killed my grandfathers, so you can't ever be redeemed!"

Thrall's Horde is a new Horde, once that can very well fit into Azeroth and live with the other races of the world. That the Alliance takes this 'holier than thou' attitude and has to constantly bring up ancient history to justify their attitude towards the Horde is ridiculous. Both sides treated each other poorly, but both sides need to grow up and move on, instead of letting their past control their future and stunt their growth, which happens to be just what the Burning Legion wants.

</end rant>

Ok, you just killed the entire plot for WoW...if the storyline went that way, then Blizzard would have no basis for making this game :P The alliance has developed their traits in accordance to what Blizzard thinks will make a good game.

[MasterMac]

play whatever side you want just because you want to do it, not because of how other people act. thats rediculous.
I disagree. If I was going to choose between playing on the side with a bunch of (just making a point now, not saying it's like this way in reality) totally immature idiots vs the side with the more intellectual/respectful/mature group, I would probably choose the latter, even if I liked the races a little more on the former's side. I spend a lot of time interacting with people in the game and I want to enjoy that experience, not try to avoid it. :)

[Ortai]

you guys dont think too much do ya.

you act like you cant make friends with a night elf., you act like "all the good mature players are playing orc undead" . . .

i
so maybe why dont you guys stop and think for a minute that maybe your the A Hole ?? maybe you cant get along with ppl ?? maybe you like to hate everyone.

With statements like these, we are suppose to change our minds about NE players? It reconfirms what people are saying.

My own experiences have soured me on Night Elves for quite a while. First, while on the coast of Ashenvale, I, as a 28th level Troll Warrior, would meet 19-22 level Night Elves, apparently on quests. I would wave at them to show I meant them no harm and run on by. About half of them got the message, the other half would attack me and promptly be turned into a red stain on the beach. I tried to do the honorable thing.

The thing that really got me was that I was body camped for about an hour by a group of NE who camped the end of the Darktide incident (I think that is what is called. I can never keep names straight in WoW), in the north of the Ashenvale coast, waiting for horde players fighting their way to the incident portal and ambushing them at the end. My group and I tried resurrecting so we could at least enter the portal, but to no avail.

While the Horde has its share of noobs, I found many mature players, team players, who it was a joy to group and raid with.

As far as the undead goes, I found questing with them to be great, at least the ones that bothered to come to Kalimdor. It might of been my server (I played on server 9 West Coast). Infact my best raid group ever was made up of a tauren warrior, myself, and undead priest, and two undead magi (mages, magi is the plural of mage). The undead, espcially the priest, played excelently. I grouped with many undead and found the expereance enjoyable the vast majority of times.

[DarknessCrusader]

you guys dont think too much do ya. its funny how you've all come acrossed to me as stereotypists because you all claim that all or (( a majority even )) of night elf players are " a holes " or "noob" or "immature" or whatever and your using how other people act as a basis for what race you want to play.

After spending over 100 hours playing on the Alliance side and only actually enjoying the very first hour playing with my wife and her Gnome Mage (cute little dancing contest took place!) I more than realized I don't care for the people over there and that was the reason I wasn't having fun. I've even gone back to the Alliance on several occassions (mainly for the wife's elf loving sake) and each time met with the same fate. The closest thing to an actual enjoyable encounter I had was when some random guy invited me into his guild. I accepted, but told him I was not really pro-Alliance and he stated that he wasn't either. Then he talked me into going to a really high level area where he could gain lots of experience, but I wouldn't because of him being partied with me and being over 10 levels higher than me. It started off okay, but then this guy had no clue as to hold aggro and ended up letting me die with each and every encounter. I tried to talk him through what aggro was, but he just started calling me a "n00b" and finally just logged off and left me and another guild member who was even lower level than me there by ourselves. We did the only thing we could and hearthed. I logged out and went about my day. Later that night I logged back in and found myself guildless again... oh well... no big loss, but I can't say that it didn't rub me at least a little the wrong way.
And again I'll tell ya'... that was one of the better encounters I had on Alliance. Most others are more like high level players running in and stealing the loot I was fighting for or just standing around and watching me die so they can get the mob I'm fighting at half health. Alliance in general are jerks. No offense to some of the nicer people here at this site. Some. like Havard for instance, I have really enjoyed listening to. Too bad the rest of the Faction couldn't be more like these individuals. Then I would actually play my Paladin and the wife would get to enjoy being an elven druidess. As is, she hates the Alliance even more than I do! :P

Sorry for the rant...

[Jashug]

I'm surprised that no one has made the comparison to Albion in DAoC to the alliance yet.

Both appeal to the crowd that wants the more traditional fantasy setting. In albion you had paladins, wizards, and arthurian fantasy. In the alliance you have paladins, dwarves and elves. Both albion and the alliance have much more in common with the traditional fantasy realm than their counterparts.

What we saw in DAoC was that the majority of players flocked to the traditional setting. What we also saw was that they became known to rule by numbers, not skill. I have to acknowledge that the best albion players could hold their own with anyone, but for the most part, their opposition was more skilled on average. In my own experience, the opposing realms showed more teamwork, had more spirit, and had a better core of players.

I will be playing horde becuase I completely expect "teh zerg" to go alliance. The underdog realm's sink or swim environment attracts the people you want at your back, and flushes out the people who only want to play on easy mode.

[Ortai]

Just for the record, I know the Horde isn't Evil, far from everyone played Warcraft 3, and before that, it was almost a definition that Orcs are evil.
That being said, i hate the current Horde, they assumed that they could make the Lordaeron Alliance (pre Warcraft 3) forgive them for a years of war which has taken almost an entire generation of ablebodied humans, dwarves, gnomes and elves, with just one act, the Mount Hyjal defense. This is one of the main reasons I will play the Alliance for at least my first two characters.

So what was the Horde suppose to do? Continue to let the alliance take a dump on them? Allow themselves to be put back in camps? Be slaves to the humans? Please. :scratch:

[Zeed]

This game should be dubbed "Revenge of the Horde"

[SoleSteeler]

I play all trolls. And you know what trolls are? yeah that's right, we're insane. An insane race in the game is neat. So I play one. I kill everyone i come across usually

i've seen bad/rude/annoying players on both sides... mainly from UD players

and humans on the alliance side...

[Pietoro]

Ok, you just killed the entire plot for WoW...if the storyline went that way, then Blizzard would have no basis for making this game :P

Er, what are you talking about? If you go to the WoW site, all of what I said is already written there as the official storyline. I'm referring to Blizzard's own lore. o_O

My -point- was, that neither side can claim the moral highground, since if you look at Azeroth's history, its obvious that neither faction is supposed to be a two-dimensional stereotype of 'good' or 'evil'. The only side that can be called truly evil is the Burning Legion.

[Killercat]

What everyone is forgetting is that its a server to server issuse, my server horde never won, they were cowards that hid in their town, and when everyone got tired of it they would come out to "try" and fight the remaining alliance members and lose.
Corra, Paco and Namal were some of their highest leveled members on my server and i beat them all single handly, i beat corra and paco at the same time before, and namal and some other lvl 36 at the same time.
It is very much server based, then anything.

oh and another point, ORCS ARE EVIL! think about it, they caused the return of the burning legion with the blood pact, blackrock orcs control much of azerath, they brought the ogres into azerath, they destroyed many lives. they did more evil then the humans have in the past 20 years, them noble? well if killing thousands of innocents is noble. orcs are far from noble they are evil blood thirsty beast, along with the trolls and undead... enough said about those.

on test 8 alliance beat out the horde more often then not.

[EssenceOfAngels]

go sell your soul to the horde ******s

[EssenceOfAngels]

go sell your soul to the horde ******s go eat some bacon, shut up. quit your *****ing.

perhaps if you were nice to night elf players they would be nice to you.

[Ortai]

go sell your soul to the horde ******s go eat some bacon, shut up. quit your *****ing.

perhaps if you were nice to night elf players they would be nice to you.

Need we say more about the maturity of NE players (in general)? I think we were all civil to him.

:thanks:

Perhaps if we had good experiences with NE players, we would not hold these opinions, but your "eloquent" display has confirmed, not overturned these thoughts.

[Semidi]

When I played alliance I found one cool person. When I played horde I found about 5 a day. That's what I base things on.

[Havard]

Alliance in general are jerks. No offense to some of the nicer people here at this site. Some. like Havard for instance, I have really enjoyed listening to. Too bad the rest of the Faction couldn't be more like these individuals. Then I would actually play my Paladin and the wife would get to enjoy being an elven druidess. As is, she hates the Alliance even more than I do! :P

Sorry for the rant...

I am sorry you and your wife have had these experiences.

Besides the rare few of my guildmates that made it into CB, I met several good people along my adventures and built up a pretty decent friends list, so I always had good company around whenever I wanted to group. Often I'd see people I'd met from 20 levels ago that I did an instance run with, who would wave or stop for a chat.

Last night I finally logged back into my CB character for one final run, after taking 2 weeks off to play a new OB character. As soon as I logged in, I got 3 whispers from past group members welcoming me back and wishing me the best for retail. I don't mean to get all warm n' fuzzy, but was very nice to see something like that.

So, there are many good Alliance people for sure. Whether you can generalize anything, I don't know. But I decided to play an Alliance paladin as soon as I heard it was a class, and have never regretted it.

[FrukTis]

Probably because there is most noobs on alliance... noobs tend to play alliance .. dont know why but thats just how it is.. and good players tend to player evil race with strange characters... and .. Horde got the best racial attributes... Tauren warrior.. and undead mage just rox... and troll shaman /rogue of course... simply good !

[Ravashak]

You do realize that Thrall's -entire generation- had nothing to do with any bloodshed vs. humans, and were raised in inhumane, deplorable conditions (as slaves/gladiators). His uprising was justified, as his goals were to rid his race of Demonic influence and rebuild their honorable culture as a free people.

What more could Thrall do aside from his show of willingness to work with the Alliance against the Legion? What are the Orcs of Thrall's generation expected to do, sacrifice their lives on the altar of their forefather's sins, so the grudges of the Alliance can be fulfilled? Seriously, people have to move on at some point, and not say 'Well, your grandfathers killed my grandfathers, so you can't ever be redeemed!"

Thrall's Horde is a new Horde, once that can very well fit into Azeroth and live with the other races of the world. That the Alliance takes this 'holier than thou' attitude and has to constantly bring up ancient history to justify their attitude towards the Horde is ridiculous. Both sides treated each other poorly, but both sides need to grow up and move on, instead of letting their past control their future and stunt their growth, which happens to be just what the Burning Legion wants.

</end rant>
Last post about this Horde vs Alliance storywise stuff =)

First, as far as I know, Thrall was the only Orc Gladiator
And do you know what Thrall did after he "liberated" the last internment camp? He went and killed the man that saved his life from the wilds after his parents were killed (true, the man in question was an ***). Then he made a demand, saying the Horde wanted land from the Alliance, and they demanded good land. If the Alliance wouldn't comply, Thrall's new Horde would crush the Alliance. Way to go with diplomacy Thrall =/
Then, after Thrall got the warning by the Prophet, they decided to steal an entire fleet (probably Kul Tirassian, no wonder Proudmoore wasn't too fond of talking), yes, this is a good way to be remembered, a murderer, arrogant, and a thief.

[hotlead]

I played on Test 10 mostly, bringing most races to lvls 5, 10 or 15ish

Although the Undead Tirisfal General chat was at times the most abysmal, immature crap I've heard in a while, in person I had TWICE the good grouping and chatting experiences with fellow undead as on other characters.

There were a ton of mature, or at least civil, Undead around, and I had a better time playing Undead than any other race. If the General chat channel is full of crap, I just assume that I can't be the only person staying the hell out of it.

I also spent a lot of idle time around the NE zones. It was pretty civil, actually. Chat was heated at times, but mostly filled with legitimate questions. I didn't group as a NE however.

The rest left no real impression on me whatsoever, really. A bunch of former guildmates and I had a chat channel going, and I soloed away most of my time.

I've decided to play Alliance (Dwarf) as my first character in retail, but that is mainly due to the fact that the Horde zones seemed to be more boring to me.

I'm sure I can find similar old farts as myself to group up with in either faction.

[Antonidas]

No the alliance will never beat the horde because it would change the world dramactially and im playing both horde and alliance and some alliance guilds play really *** like *cough*DIE*cough**cough*

[Havard]

And Stormwind humans had nothing to do with "Alliance atrocities" incurred upon the orcs. :)

[FrozenYak]

It really is messed up that people are stereotyping all the alliance as immature kids. Honestly, it all has to do with who you meet. I havent had much of a problem with immature people on the alliance side yet, but then again ive been playing with the people I came from another game with.

Anyway, like some others said - if you are basing your opinion on how the game started then that is just as immature as what you're pointing out. Its like saying the horde are all selfish players because the few people i grouped with only worried about themselves when we hunt.

[AgeOfAbnegation]

Darn... In a way, I'm saddened to see that so many people are agreeing with me. I was hoping that the general disorganization of the Alliance players was just tainted from a few isolated bad experiences.

Oh well. I guess I'll have to be the one to take up the torch and re-unify the Alliance. :D

We beat j00 to it! :lol: Check out our raid on Mulgore (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=279437) - those cows didn't stand a chance.

[Emeritus]

you guys dont think too much do ya. its funny how you've all come acrossed to me as stereotypists because you all claim that all or (( a majority even )) of night elf players are " a holes " or "noob" or "immature" or whatever and your using how other people act as a basis for what race you want to play.

you act like you cant make friends with a night elf., you act like "all the good mature players are playing orc undead"


The simple fact is, a large number of the players in Teldrassil ARE assholes. I myself was an Elf in the OB. I intend the play an Elf in Retail, but you know what? There's no way I'm going to stick in Teldrassil once I get my pet. The spam in General chat is just absurd. Quest explanations are there, but somehow, they don't read it. Answer one question, and 2 minutes later that question gets asked again.

Granted, Stormwind isn't really much better, but its still better than what we have to live through in Teldrassil. Its not an issue of "not being able to make friends", since I had quite a few in Human lands - Its an issue of far too many fanboi's versus far too few mature players.

[Shar]

First, as far as I know, Thrall was the only Orc Gladiator
And do you know what Thrall did after he "liberated" the last internment camp? He went and killed the man that saved his life from the wilds after his parents were killed (true, the man in question was an ***).

From the WoW story page (http://worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/chapter4.html):
"Blackmoore had raised the young male as a favored slave and named him Thrall. Blackmoore taught the orc about tactics, philosophy, and combat. Thrall was even trained as a gladiator. All the while, the corrupt warden sought to mold the orc into a weapon."


Then he made a demand, saying the Horde wanted land from the Alliance, and they demanded good land. If the Alliance wouldn't comply, Thrall's new Horde would crush the Alliance. Way to go with diplomacy Thrall =/

...what?

Then, after Thrall got the warning by the Prophet, they decided to steal an entire fleet (probably Kul Tirassian, no wonder Proudmoore wasn't too fond of talking), yes, this is a good way to be remembered, a murderer, arrogant, and a thief.

I think we played two different versions of Warcraft III.

[Ortai]

yes, this is a good way to be remembered, a murderer, arrogant, and a thief.

George Washington, and his fellow revolutionaries are remembered in much the same way by some, leading a revolt against a measly 3% tax increase meant to pay for their own defense, confiscating loyalist property, killing British solders, etc. Leaders of revolutions, in the real or fictive world are often remembered as bandits by some and heroes by others.

Perhaps he should of been an ork Gandhi, right? :lol:
Oh thats right, his people were in internment camps and enslaved. Perhaps he should of sat around negotiating while his brethren suffered. How noble and diplomatic that would have been!

[Ortai]

We beat j00 to it! :lol: Check out our raid on Mulgore (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=279437) - those cows didn't stand a chance.

Congrats! You raided a place a good porportion of the players would have been lvls 1-12. I bet it made you feel like a real man to do it too. No wonder "those cows did not stand a chance" and you "slew over 100" as it said in the chat in your last pic. Now what was it we were saying about Elves . . .

[Emeritus]

Congrats! You raided a place a good porportion of the players would have been lvls 1-12. I bet it made you feel like a real man to do it too. No wonder you "slew over 100" as it said in the chat in your last pic. Now what was it we were saying about Elves . . .

Hey! We're not ALL like that, you know! :)

Only PvP I did was on Test 36 against a level 25 Orc Hunter who made it into Elwynn Forest. I lost vs him one on one, but it sure was fun!

Now. What were we saying about newbie ganking again....

[Ortai]

Point taken.

Still it gets me POed to see him ganking peeps outside of Bloodhoof village, the place you go immediately after you complete your intial training. The peeps there would be lvls 6-12ish.

I just wonder why he did not raid in ashendale where bigger fish would have been found. Oh yeh, noob gankers. . .

[AgeOfAbnegation]

Congrats! You raided a place a good porportion of the players would have been lvls 1-12. I bet it made you feel like a real man to do it too. No wonder "those cows did not stand a chance" and you "slew over 100" as it said in the chat in your last pic. Now what was it we were saying about Elves . . .

Horde players, which outnumbered us 3-1, ranged from lv 9 - 28. You may have missed the screenshots of the higher levels. Regardless, you're more than welcome to put us to the test in game.

[Emeritus]

Point taken.

Still it gets me POed to see him ganking peeps outside of Bloodhoof village, the place you go immediately after you complete your intial training. The peeps there would be lvls 6-12ish.

I just wonder why he did not raid in ashendale where bigger fish would have been found. Oh yeh, noob gankers. . .

Personally, if all the midlevels in the area were willing to stand up to the gankers, these situations wouldn't happen. In my earlier example, there were multiple level 20-25's in the area. I was the ONLY level 20+ who was willing to go try and take this guy out. Everyone else involved was 10-15. Kudos to the low-levels for willing to die while I shot the hunter down, but my question is this: Where were you 20+ characters ?

[Ortai]

Horde players, which outnumbered us 3-1, ranged from lv 9 - 28. You may have missed the screenshots of the higher levels. Regardless, you're more than welcome to put us to the test in game.

A few pics of higher lvl characters, out of "over 100," would indivate the higher lvl characters were in the minority. Even if you killed around 30 people (which would roughly conform to your 3-to-1 ratio), The higher lvl. characters you depict would be the exception, not the rule.

My point is that most of what you encountered, espcially outside Bloodhoof Village, would have been quite lower than your which seeming lvled 16-20 group, except for the occasional passer by. Again it makes me wonder why you did not raid ashenvale or the barrens where people your level would have been found, but instead headed to a lower lower level area.

[Havard]

Ortai,

I suggest you inspect things more closely before you make unwarranted flames.

A quick inquiry into our raid would show that we fought against about 6 or 7 level 18-25's and about a dozen more 1-17's. Not too mention the ?? guards that aggroed whenever they retreated to their safe haven.

We had 9 players total, the highest level was myself, a level 24, with about 6 others ranging from 11-23, and 2 players under level 10.



PS: Thanks again for you ignorant flame! :thumbsup:

[Ortai]

Personally, if all the midlevels in the area were willing to stand up to the gankers, these situations wouldn't happen. In my earlier example, there were multiple level 20-25's in the area. I was the ONLY level 20+ who was willing to go try and take this guy out. Everyone else involved was 10-15. Kudos to the low-levels for willing to die while I shot the hunter down, but my question is this: Where were you 20+ characters ?

Hey don't point fingers at me. :uhhuh: When I see or hear about things like this happening. I go against them, and that is probably where his shots of the higher lvl characters come from. When you get the alert "X is under attack" you don't know how serious the problem is It could be an elf (or orc) running around in his undies for all one knows.

[AgeOfAbnegation]

A few pics of higher lvl characters, out of "over 100," would indivate the higher lvl characters were in the minority. Even if you killed around 30 people (which would roughly conform to your 3-to-1 ratio), The higher lvl. characters you depict would be the exception, not the rule.


Stands to logic. However, the "over 100" in this case indicates repeat kills. I'd say there were about 30 in the area or so. The average level was around 17, altogether. Suprisingly, there were no single digit lowbies in the area, save for 1 or 2. You can probably tell that by looking at the gear they were equipped with.


My point is that most of what you encountered, espcially outside Bloodhoof Village, would have been quite lower than your which seeming lvled 16-20 group, except for the occasional passer by. Again it makes me wonder why you did not raid ashenvale or the barrens where people your level would have been found, but instead headed to a lower lower level area.

We went throught the barrens, on the way to freewind post. We raided there in the CB as a higher level outfit, but we realized the 2 lv 45 braves at the bottom of the winding path to that town would have easily wiped our group - it just wasnt worth it.

Having arrived in horde territory, we can't simply gank players, without them attacking us to begin with, which pretty much blows away your theory of a nub guild of gankers ransacking a lowbie area. We arrived on the scene, and were attacked by more than a few tauren, averaging around lv 14-15. No fool would join a battle with an opponent they couldn't fight with, unless they're total fools, who deserve to die to learn the ropes. Reinforcements of prox levels and higher arrived, as the screenshots attest to. I'm trying to be civil here in dealing with your accusatory post, seeing the screenshots I provided, along with what we know of PvP zone mechanics.

[Havard]

Again it makes me wonder why you did not raid ashenvale or the barrens where people your level would have been found, but instead headed to a lower lower level area.

Bloodhoof was actually Hydro's suggestion. We went with it because we wanted to have a raid that could be ILM-only, for bonding. Later on that night, we joined up with the massive raid on the Crossroads (where the Horde also got worked.)

If you want to pick out certain things about our raid and trash us, you could make it look "weak", but the fact is that only 9 of us took on a Horde town deep within Horde territory with ?? guards and situated right next to a Horde city. Do you think when the Horde attack Goldshire that they have an easy time? Hell no, the Hordies that do that have guts because all the high levels in SW come. But you make our raid into whatever you want...

[Shar]

Ortai,

I suggest you inspect things more closely before you make unwarranted flames.

A quick inquiry into our raid would show that we fought against about 6 or 7 level 18-25's and about a dozen more 1-17's. Not too mention the ?? guards that aggroed whenever they retreated to their safe haven.

We had 9 players total, the highest level was myself, a level 24, with about 6 others ranging from 11-23, and 2 players under level 10.



PS: Thanks again for you ignorant flame! :thumbsup:Considering you posted none of that information in your screenshots thread or in this one, talking about laying waste to a newbie zone will generally get that kind of reaction.

[Havard]

Considering you posted none of that information in your screenshots thread or in this one, talking about laying waste to a newbie zone will generally get that kind of reaction.

We made the screenshots thread for our own memory of the experience, not outsiders. The whole point was to get our newbies (including a level 4 and a level 7) introduced to PvP.

Sorry if AoA didn't write a book explaining the issue before introducing it to the outside world.

[Ortai]

Ortai,

I suggest you inspect things more closely before you make unwarranted flames.

A quick inquiry into our raid would show that we fought against about 6 or 7 level 18-25's and about a dozen more 1-17's. Not too mention the ?? guards that aggroed whenever they retreated to their safe haven.

We had 9 players total, the highest level was myself, a level 24, with about 6 others ranging from 11-23, and 2 players under level 10.



PS: Thanks again for you ignorant flame! :thumbsup:

Ignorant? You yourself confirm what I was saying. The majority of the people you fought were under the level of most of your people, as far as I could gather from what you said.

Even if it was not so, what do you expect when the screens show a bunch of peeps outside a newbie camp? (edit: sorry did not see the above post)

[Shar]

Well, you suggested to "inspect things more closely before you make unwarranted flames" and that's kind of hard without the information being anywhere. I'm just saying that having clarification helps.

[AgeOfAbnegation]

Shar's post was fine - there wasn't alot of information offered. I hope my reply to Ortai has made it clear however.

[Havard]

Ignorant? You yourself confirm what I was saying. The majority of the people you fought were under the level of most of your people, as far as I could gather from what you said.

You didn't know the facts, assumed them, and flamed. You still, apparently, don't know the facts. We fought against greater odds, period.

And FYI, any player fighting us had the option of not doing so, which many did not... so "picking on noobs" is really a good call. :howdy:

[Ortai]

Shar's post was fine - there wasn't alot of information offered. I hope my reply to Ortai has made it clear however.

Now it is clear, thanks. I did not see your explaination post before I posted. Just as a note the screens did not prove alot to me because, as I said, no one would screen ganking a noob. Plus, as has been pointed out. Saying "The cows did not stand a chance" and then showing a screen of you fighting a low lvl zone would lead to misconceptions.

[Ortai]

You didn't know the facts, assumed them, and flamed. You still, apparently, don't know the facts. We fought against greater odds, period.

And FYI, any player fighting us had the option of not doing so, which many did not... so "picking on noobs" is really a good call. :howdy:

Did you even bother to read the editorial note at the end?

[Havard]

Did you even bother to read the editorial note at the end?

No, this whole thing has gotten me too worked up. :uhhuh:

[DarknessCrusader]

The ILM for the most part is an honorable PvP Alliance guild. They are not just a bunch of 'gankers'. Saying that, they did attack the single most least aggressive newbie area in the Horde. But it's not thier fault that all the higher levels from the Barrens didn't come running to Mulgore for tha' save!
Oh... and AOA and Hav'... don't ever expect Horde to come runnin' from the TB capitol... that place is a ghost town at most times. Most Horde mages never even get the portal there because there's almost no reason to go there as is once you're level 40 or higher. There's only a few quests that deal with over level 12s and they're all just a brief talk or drop off and then out of there.
Compare Mulgore with Teldrassil, but much much easier to get to.

Want more challenge... attack Brill or Razor Hill. Not Bloodhoof Village.

And for God's sake Alliance... leave Sen'jin Village alone! It's a bunch of level 4-7 players and is a long, long run from Orgrimmar for back-up! :P
Plus it feel's like someone's breaking the windows out of my home. :(

[Omni gamer]

I have to say, there is no easier place to invade than Bloodhoof Village. A few nomadic level 14 guards. If I wanted to gain a party to raid, say Goldshire, I would have to go through level 30 ish guards, and run through a level 30 zone to get through there, while the same attack on bloodhoof only travels you through a level 20 zone.

My experiances in Bloodhoof are much different. When I get the message "Bloodhoof is under attack!" I rush to defend my homeland. When I arrive, I see a level 24 paladin against my level 20 shaman. The odds don't look good for me, but the guy slowly backs away. And I didn't fight him once. If that isn't chickenry, I don't know what is.

My guildie came into Stormwind city with a raid group of 10 against a good 150 so before you call it "zone supremacy" actually go and attempt the raid on the big city.

[Ortai]

No, this whole thing has gotten me too worked up. :uhhuh:

Let me offer this (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/badgerphone.php),as a peace offering. It allways makes me feel better. :uhhuh:

Hats off to both of you for remaining cool. :thumbsup:

[AgeOfAbnegation]

My guildie came into Stormwind city with a raid group of 10 against a good 150 so before you call it "zone supremacy" actually go and attempt the raid on the big city.

Stay tuned. We can't do a whole lot with a group of low level gamers new to WoW. What's edifying however was how well we did do considering the opposition, and some of our guys who just got on OB that same week.

[Teppic]

I have to say, I played several Alliance characters during the open beta, and I agree with most of what has been said above.

Pretty much all but a small handful of people that I met or chatted to (small meaning 20-30), were openly rude when it came to sharing information, particularly towards reasonable questions from new players.

Very few groups were formed, with most people soloing and ignoring others in need. This was particularly true in my experiences of Teldrassil.

That said, don't write off all the Alliance, I'm sure there are many decent Alliance people who, naturally enough, were organised in their play and didnt get noticed. Plus the many, many people who missed out on signing up for the open beta.

I like both alliance and horde races for different classes, but based on what I have seen to date and read here, I think I'll likely be joining the Horde for my first sojourn into WoW after release.

Grond, the Orc Shaman here I come! :thumbsup:

[Havard]

I have to say, there is no easier place to invade than Bloodhoof Village. A few nomadic level 14 guards. If I wanted to gain a party to raid, say Goldshire, I would have to go through level 30 ish guards, and run through a level 30 zone to get through there, while the same attack on bloodhoof only travels you through a level 20 zone.

My experiances in Bloodhoof are much different. When I get the message "Bloodhoof is under attack!" I rush to defend my homeland. When I arrive, I see a level 24 paladin against my level 20 shaman. The odds don't look good for me, but the guy slowly backs away. And I didn't fight him once. If that isn't chickenry, I don't know what is.

My guildie came into Stormwind city with a raid group of 10 against a good 150 so before you call it "zone supremacy" actually go and attempt the raid on the big city.

I don't know who the 24 paladin you speak of was, but I am Havard, of I Linte Macil, on server 16, and our raid on Bloodhoof happened on Wednesday night. My character looks like the picture you see in my avatar. I have a bad habit of running into more enemies than I can take, so I doubt you saw me shy away from 2 players.

As far as the ease of attacking Bloodhoof is concerned, you're mistaken. Not that this is your fault, perhaps the uber-guards of Bloodhoof don't exist at all to you until they spawn in an attack. But the fact is, enemies' proximity to the center of such a town spawns guards besides the level 14 "Brave Leaping Deer's," and such. The ones in Bloodhoof that kept foiling us are called "Mulgore Protectors (http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?n=118161)" and are level 50.

So when our enemy retreats into the closeness of the town, we would have to back off as a necessity, as we were certainly unable to take on the elite guards. A party of 9, with an average level of 17, isn't going to be able to take down 1 such guard.

[Edit: changed able to unable in the above paragraph :cheesy: ]

[Sard]

Horde will always beat alliance - Everyone knows that the forces of good are dumb.

[Havard]

Horde will always beat alliance - Everyone knows that the forces of good are dumb.

Yes but... many of your compatriots have been saying that we are the evil ones...

D'oh!

[EdrictheWild]

Um...nice reasoning Sard :cheesy: As long as ILM is around, the alliance will not fall under the barbaric horde!

[DarknessCrusader]

Now I have great respect for the ILM... they are worthy adversaries and very Horde-like in thier demeanor. But even they cannot stand up to the Horde in all it's glory. But if I have a say, I will make sure each and every one of them goes out fighting like a true champion. :)
Too bad I'll be playing in the wrong realm to get to battle against these worthy opponents. :(
Oh well... I can still battle them here in the forums! ILM... you're goin' down! :flip:

[Havard]

The ILM for the most part is an honorable PvP Alliance guild. They are not just a bunch of 'gankers'. Saying that, they did attack the single most least aggressive newbie area in the Horde. But it's not thier fault that all the higher levels from the Barrens didn't come running to Mulgore for tha' save!
Oh... and AOA and Hav'... don't ever expect Horde to come runnin' from the TB capitol... that place is a ghost town at most times. Most Horde mages never even get the portal there because there's almost no reason to go there as is once you're level 40 or higher. There's only a few quests that deal with over level 12s and they're all just a brief talk or drop off and then out of there.
Compare Mulgore with Teldrassil, but much much easier to get to.

Want more challenge... attack Brill or Razor Hill. Not Bloodhoof Village.

And for God's sake Alliance... leave Sen'jin Village alone! It's a bunch of level 4-7 players and is a long, long run from Orgrimmar for back-up! :P
Plus it feel's like someone's breaking the windows out of my home. :(

First off, thank you for your kind words about us in ILM.

I know AoA and I will certainly be glad to be done with these low level towns completely, but we needed to start somewhere for those of us who were new to the game and to PvP. And I think it proved to be a good challenge, we certainly attracted plenty of level 20ish players to give us a good fight.

Last week, we attacked Tarren Mill twice, which was quite a reach for us then, but only had one Horde encounter. Maybe it was too early for there to be people questing in that zone? We even sacrificed a player to attract a TM Deathguard to alert the Hordies that we were there, in order to get some attention, but nothing came of it and we realized there really was no one around, so we left.

At any rate, we couldn't take our group there this Wednesday, because this time we brought all our online guild players, including the >10's.

[Hydro]

First off, thank you for your kind words about us in ILM.

I know AoA and I will certainly be glad to be done with these low level towns completely, but we needed to start somewhere for those of us who were new to the game and to PvP. And I think it proved to be a good challenge, we certainly attracted plenty of level 20ish players to give us a good fight.

Last week, we attacked Tarren Mill twice, which was quite a reach for us then, but only had one Horde encounter. Maybe it was too early for there to be people questing in that zone? We even sacrificed a player to attract a TM Deathguard to alert the Hordies that we were there, in order to get some attention, but nothing came of it and we realized there really was no one around, so we left.

At any rate, we couldn't take our group there this Wednesday, because this time we brought all our online guild players, including the >10's.

It is truely a shame that Aeternum Erus will not be on the same server as I Linte Macil.
I would have loved some friendly warfare without the threat of corpse camping (as most guilds seem to find corpse camping and ganking humorous...). I will probably make an alt alliance character on whatever server ILM is on anyways though, just to watch whenever you do larger raids later on.
But anyways, back on topic, I would hate to have either faction dominate any server, as it would ruin the fun to be on the dominant side. The constant battling back and forth is what makes the game great, ESPECIALLY in Tarren Mills, I will be rushing to get a mount and parachute cloak just so I can counter roof snipers. Good times, good times.

[Tyren]

I must say, this sort of thing is why I hope Blizzard gets the Battlegrounds in soon after release. Also, I'm disapointed so many RP guilds are refusing to play on an PvE RP server.

When a guild or group or individual goes out and has a great fight, they shouldn't have to prove that they weren't "ganking noobs". I plan on doing a lot if PvP on a PvE server, because that way I know every fight I get into is against a player who wants to fight me. Heck, there were several times in OB where I took my level 15 charging into a level 25 to help out my side in a fight. Should the level 25 feel bad for killing me? Was I "ganked"? Of course not, I jumped in because I wanted to fight, and died because I was outfought.

I just don't see what's so bad about the PvE way in WoW. Picture the following scenario: Alliance party is adventuring in the disputed zone. Horde party is adventuring in the disputed zone. Horde wants to fight, so they turn on the PvP flag and taunt the Alliance with emotes. If the Alliance wants to defend their honor, they turn on their PvP flags and get it on. If they don't, the Horde slaps each other on the back and crows about those wussy Alliance, and go back to adventuring. (Of course, the scenario is the same if you switch the words Horde and Alliance. Don't want to hurt anyone's feelings).

The only thing PvE lacks is the thrill of being ambushed... and if you want that, you just leave your PvP flag on. Ambushing someone who is questing doesn't hold much appeal for me, is this really the reason people want to play on the PvP servers?

I have faith in Blizzard... they've never let me down with a bad game. If they say Battlegrounds will be in, they will be in, and for both PvP and PvE servers. THAT is where the action will really be at... a bunch of people who knowingly and willingly are ready to try and kill each other.

To attempt to coin a phrase... "PvE means never having to say you're sorry (for ganking)".

Brian

[prophetik]

I'm new to MMO's and RPG's in general (loved Morrowind though...), and the OB was the first experience I had ever had with an MMO. I played a Night Elf Rogue, and had a great time actually, and met some great people while on Teldrassil. I am very eager to learn and I like to think I'm a mature gamer as well.....This game has so much potential and a great community--I just want to be a positive part of it.

That said, I created a list of about 4 characters I'd like to play at some point during retail. 2 Horde and 2 Alliance. The question for me is: Which first? Which will be my main character? Based on what I've read here, I'm going Alliance.....I want to defy the norm that Alliance players are idiots and selfish. I'll be looking for an intelligent, fun, and well-organized Alliance guild to join and contribute to once we get going. And hopefully, there will be others out there like myself!

See you all in next week....

[Semidi]

I'll be looking for an intelligent, fun, and well-organized Alliance guild to join and contribute to once we get going. And hopefully, there will be others out there like myself!

I would point you to ILM or the garden gnomes, if their fighting skills are half as good as their posting ones...

[Hydro]

I would point you to ILM or the garden gnomes, if their fighting skills are half as good as their posting ones...

The only problem with the garden gnomes as that they are... you know... gnomes. I mean, they are an awesome guild, but... gnomes?
As soon as my Tauren gets a kodo mount, I will train him in "Gnome Devour" and "Gnome Sandwhich".
The gnome sandwhich ability isn't what you think, he actually smashes gnomes up into a gooey past and spreads them on bread.

[Ortai]

Nice to hear good stuff about what goes on in Tarren mill. I wished my experence in Ashenvale was as good.

[Sard]

Um...nice reasoning Sard :cheesy: As long as ILM is around, the alliance will not fall under the barbaric horde!
Industrial Light and Magic?

[Pietoro]

LOL, that's what I keep thinking when I see their acronym, too! XD

[Havard]

Yeah, George Lucas gives us a little money under the table for the subliminal advertising. :evil:

[AgeOfAbnegation]

Haha, you two are certainly not the first ^^.

[Ifrit18]

I say the Horde are more aggressive than Alliance players are. Saw quite a few Horde outposts too.

Went to drywhisker area in Arathi Highlands next to Hammerfall and you got to watch your back literally :P.

Same with Feralas. Oh great, I spawn in a graveyard next to a horde outpost.

About ILM conquering horde, they should put up a reasonable taskforce. Its not a bad guild, except for one little thing ;).

[Havard]

ILM conquering horde, they should put up a reasonable taskforce. Its not a bad guild, except for one little thing ;).

Oh man, do I have to go back watch City Slickers again?

[nyracer77]

originally posted by Ravenfirecaster
Oh well. I guess I'll have to be the one to take up the torch and re-unify the Alliance. :D[/QUOTE]


I'm more then happy to help build dicipline in the Alliance ranks. Not sure what server i'll be on but most likely east coast. I was on test 19 in Ob Name was Brise. Female NE huntress.

[GaiaWombat]

I think I can speak for most of the people in here when I say that we are not assuming all Night Elves or Alliance are immature n00bs. All we are suggesting is that perhaps there is a greater tendency for these types of people to choose the Alliance faction or Night Elf race. I personally, while playing Alliance, met plenty of perfectly civil and level-headed people. There were, however, plenty of dolts spamming the general chat with idiotic questions or unmerited boastful nonsense. While stereotypes do not, in any situation, apply to an entire demographic, they are often times based on truth.

[BelXiror]

A note about Bloodhoof village. The reason higher levels don't turn up to defend it is that there all in the Barrens, which is on a different chat channel that Bloodhoof.

So even if people call for help, it only catches those in Mulgore, which seems primarily to be lower levels.

Not to mention, rushing through Mulgore to get anywhere is annoying as hell, with all the aggros everywhere :p

[Omni gamer]

I don't know who the 24 paladin you speak of was, but I am Havard, of I Linte Macil, on server 16, and our raid on Bloodhoof happened on Wednesday night. My character looks like the picture you see in my avatar. I have a bad habit of running into more enemies than I can take, so I doubt you saw me shy away from 2 players.

As far as the ease of attacking Bloodhoof is concerned, you're mistaken. Not that this is your fault, perhaps the uber-guards of Bloodhoof don't exist at all to you until they spawn in an attack. But the fact is, enemies' proximity to the center of such a town spawns guards besides the level 14 "Brave Leaping Deer's," and such. The ones in Bloodhoof that kept foiling us are called "Mulgore Protectors (http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?n=118161)" and are level 50.

So when our enemy retreats into the closeness of the town, we would have to back off as a necessity, as we were certainly unable to take on the elite guards. A party of 9, with an average level of 17, isn't going to be able to take down 1 such guard.

[Edit: changed able to unable in the above paragraph :cheesy: ]

I didn't mean it was you. The paladin was on a totally different server. I think the real fact that's making me mad is that a group of 9 average level 17 shouldn't be able to attack any village without buttkickage. The fact is that I would have to deal with three factors upon entering Elwynn for an attack on Goldshire.

Factor 1: Every one and their mother in Stormwind would come and attack us. It's a much much shorter walk from SW to Goldshire then from TB to Bloodhoof. Plus there are more people in SW, but that's the fault of TB, not the people in SW.

Factor 2: The ease in attackers getting to Bloodhoof is much less than getting them to Goldshire. I assume to get to Bloodhoof you took the easiest path, which would be Stonetalon -> Barrens -> Mulgore. The highest level zone you go through is a level 20, which is managable with your forces. Our same horde force would have to go STV -> Duskwood -> Elwynn, where we have to deal with level 30 road-camping raptors. Once we enter Duskwood or Elwynn, the main thoroughfaires are patroled, but in the Barrens or Mulgore, this is not the case.

Factor 3: The guards. I am aware that killing any standing guard in Mulgore will bring in level 50 guards, and the same will in Goldshire. However, the standing guards in Goldshire are at least two times higher than those in Bloodhoof. This is not your fault, but it does show that attacking Bloodhoof is much easier, and as Darkness said, you should have attacked Razor Hill or Brill instead of Bloodhoof.

But if what you say is true, you flogged the players at Bloodhoof, and for that I take my hat off to you. Hopefully one day your guild and mine can meet on the battleground.

[Ifrit18]

Alliance is so unorganized ;). Should be no excuse for Horde to lay the smack down on the Alliance.