Use of english language on eu servers

[handyman24602]

hi im not part of the beta, but considering retail. I was just wondering what the rules were on the use of foreign language on english servers. For me personaly use of foreign language and names would ruin the game expierence, i would like to feel like i was in the universe. on the beta servers is this a problem.

[ZaxGreia]

hi im not part of the beta, but considering retail. I was just wondering what the rules were on the use of foreign language on english servers. For me personaly use of foreign language and names would ruin the game expierence, i would like to feel like i was in the universe. on the beta servers is this a problem.
Isn't it kind of odd to think that playing a character in another world might not have some foreign language involved, even if that foreign language is just the slang that players use? When I first played in the US Open Beta, it took me a few hours to get used to the new slang-set ;).

I doubt you'll have too much trouble - from what I've heard, they're planning on labeling servers as language specific (German, French, English). Am I right?

[handyman24602]

granted a character in a different world might, but i dont want to hear french/german, that is real world, it just makes things more confusing. im sure peeps on the german server would feel the same loss of continuity if peeps started speaking english + other languages. its just an extra layer thats not needed and i have found frustrated with in other online experiences.

[Qinetiq]

Isn't it kind of odd to think that playing a character in another world might not have some foreign language involved, even if that foreign language is just the slang that players use? When I first played in the US Open Beta, it took me a few hours to get used to the new slang-set ;).

I doubt you'll have too much trouble - from what I've heard, they're planning on labeling servers as language specific (German, French, English). Am I right?

Yep, there will be language specific servers. I'm not sure how strictly enforced the language rules will be but I have heard of German/French/Swedish speaking people being temporarily banned from US servers for using their native language in general chat. Europeans tend not to be quite so xenophobic so we may find that it's not as strict on our servers.

[handyman24602]

granted a character in a different world might, but i dont want to hear french/german, that is real world, it just makes things more confusing. im sure peeps on the german server would feel the same loss of continuity if peeps started speaking english + other languages. its just an extra layer thats not needed and i have found frustrated with in other online experiences.

[NotAgain]

I'm pretty sure that you will see swedish/dutch/spanish etc guilds arriving soon after retail. They always have in any mmog. I have also always seen people speak their own language when amongst eachother. I don't think it will be against the server policy.

I don't see the big problem, in fact I kinda like it, adds some diversity to the chat ;)

[ZaxGreia]

granted a character in a different world might, but i dont want to hear french/german, that is real world, it just makes things more confusing. im sure peeps on the german server would feel the same loss of continuity if peeps started speaking english + other languages. its just an extra layer thats not needed and i have found frustrated with in other online experiences.
Did you read the last paragraph in my post?

Oh and remember that there are tons of people playing the Korean Open Beta who don't speak any Korean. I don't think the Koreans care much :) There should be enough people involved that an occasional German or French comment won't mess up your immersion ;)

[audi_tt]

I doubt you'll have too much trouble - from what I've heard, they're planning on labeling servers as language specific (German, French, English). Am I right?

You are right. Here is a proof ( image taken from latest german client 1.2.1).

http://img136.exs.cx/img136/8669/realm13sd.jpg

[Morphina]

there actually is a pollicy announced on this.


General, OOC, trade, group and such channels only allow english. In more private channels like guild, there is freedom to speak whatever you want.

This is a good thing, because we will see Spannish/dutch/scandinavian guilds and they will speak their own language, which nerfs me.

Whenever someone is doing this i feel free to point him to the pollicy....then give him a warning, then report him to the Blizzard police.

[Shirogane]

Or you could all leave us alone. I think it's bad enough we Spanish, Portuguese, etc. don't get a localized version of the game NOR specific servers to play, we can really do without your nazi biggotry. Thanks a lot for the warm welcome.

Yes, that goes for you, Morphina. I'm developing a strong sentiment against you.

[herekleitos]

You're truly and warmly welcome, Shirogane. Just don't use general chat or any open channels for a language other than the Server's Language.

When I am in a great place like Ironforge, it really spoils my sense of immersion in the game when a dwarf next to me starts to speak in Italian, for example. It reminds me too much of the real world, and that's not what I am in the game for.

See you online!

[Perrin]

When I walk around in Orgrimmar and I see all the Orcs speak english, it really ruins my immersion in the world, so please refrain from speaking english and speak proper Orcish.

Sheesh, I agree with Shirogane.. the arrogance of english/americans is sometimes really awful.

[herekleitos]

When I walk around in Orgrimmar and I see all the Orcs speak english, it really ruins my immersion in the world, so please refrain from speaking english and speak proper Orcish.

Sheesh, I agree with Shirogane.. the arrogance of english/americans is sometimes really awful.
RTFP!

As I said ... use the Server's Language in general channels, please. The Server's Language is equivalent to the Common Tongue in WoW. What part of that was difficult to understand?

Not that it should matter where I am from, but English is not my first language. See you around!

[Perrin]

If a scandinavian guild was sitting in a corner of Xroads discussing with a potential new guild member in scandinavian, or generally making fun, and I happen to overhear it, I could really care less.. Not all people speak fluent english, and it's not their fault the game isn't published in their native tongue. Sometimes for quick and clear communication with friends or other people from the same nationality you meet in WoW, you'll use your native tongue.

For general chat and other widely broadcasted channels I agree, it would not be great to have a mix of languages there, but to enforce it so strictly as to avoid any non-english at all times except in the most private communications seems harsh to me, again since not everyone speaks english as fluently as most native english speakers wish them to do. A little tolerance and a little less xenophobia goes a long way.

[herekleitos]

I guess you're right there, Perrin.

[Blackmoon]

There will be surely chat-channels and guilds dedicated to certain language very soon after launch. And most likely there will be different languages spoken in public channels unless Blizz will be enforcing really hard policy in the matter. Personally I'm not bothered if people speak different language in /say when talking to eachother (I know I do that normally. Always seem idiotic to me to speak english to another Finn). When different languages spread to group and general chat-channels then that starts to get annoying to me.

[Hettar]

let's calm down, peeps :)
The (sensible) rule is : on a xxxxx server, public communication between players and between players and GMs is done in xxxxx. That's the rule. I'm french, and I have been playing on the EU CB for some time now. I have seldom seen other languages on General chat and it was quickly and gently sushed down. The point is, if you're not english or german or french speaking, just use the server language when talking to a majority of players, that just makes sense.
Feel free to use whatever language you wish in private talks. (by private talks, I mean talks when only (or mainly) your friends will hear, such as party chat, or /s chat when you're kind of alone, would not work for example in front of AH :) but would work in near xr for example)

Concerning other languages chats, there are some wide area channels created for french, german, dutch where you can freely use any language... (it's really easy to create channels)

ps on a side note, I'll play on english servers at retail, and will speak english on all the general channels.

[brainwipe]

I think it's bad enough we Spanish, Portuguese, etc. don't get a localized version of the game...

Well, I certainly sympathise and am actucally surprised you don't after all, there are a _lot_ of Spanish / Portuguese speakers, maybe blizz will see sence on this, after all im sure a lot of players in south (and hey probably north) america would like to see this... Still they have to draw a line on whats viable to produce/support somewhere.

Maybe if you can get other spanish or portuguese speakers to congregate toward a few specific servers when the beta (or full release) go live, that may make your point for you... if there are enough people im sure they listen.

Can understand where blizzard come from to a degree, though I don't agree, even though I only speak english...

Starting with the European Final Beta Test in early January 2005, all European servers will be assigned a preferred language. English, French and German will each be the preferred language on at least two PvP and two PvE servers at the beginning of Final Beta. Additional servers will be added throughout the Final Beta period to accommodate the increasing number of players. The type and language of added servers will be based on the demand we see from server populations.

While you are able to use any language client on any server, we strongly encourage you to use a client of the server's preferred language. When playing on a European server all public chat and contact with customer service is required to be in the server's preferred language.

...anyway, I was hopeing that we could have a server where all the alliance are french and all the horde are english, then we a rip those froggies limb from limb just like we used to do hundreds of years ago! (JOKE!!!)

[NotAgain]

I can assure you that people will speak whatever language the want too. General channels are usually kept in english but especially the /say channel will be overrun with all languages, on the CB in europe I can see it already.

I don't have a problem with it and I sincerely doubt blizzard will heavily enforce this rule, people would feel discimrinated and possibly leave the game if they did, I know I would. A few sentences of some foreign language don't hurt anyone.

And you know what really ruins my immersion? All those foreigners speaking english! That's right. So really, that immersion thing just is in your head and you need to get over it, fast.

[BeanBaker]

I just want to point out something which does not seem clear to everyone:

Blizzard stated there will be servers with a preferred (enforced?) language, I think two at least for each English, French, German. The numbers will rise, as the demand grows (which will be quickly I think).

But this does NOT mean, that EVERY server will have a preferred language!!!
No preferred language does not mean English will be preferred, though speaking English will surely be helpful.

So if you want to speak a language in general chat other than the three just pick a server without a preferred language!

From what I've heard from other MMORPGs people speaking languages without a "dedicated" server organised websites at launch to vote for a server to join. In example I think there was an american server in Everquest, which was mostly populates by coreans which annoyed most americans on the server as the general chat became mostly corean. But don't take my word for that.

Because of this I think it is likely that Blizzard will "propose" Servers for all common European Languages so these votings will not be necessary and you have increased odds to meet people who actually speak the same language like you do.

At least I hope so for you non-English-French-or-Germans :p

[brainwipe]

But this does NOT mean, that EVERY server will have a preferred language!!!

What makes you think that, see my post above, or the "Server languages" post on wow-europe... unless there has been a change of heart, and announcement to the contrary (and would be nice if there has been) ALL european servers will be assigned a preferred language...

[Mort]

...anyway, I was hopeing that we could have a server where all the alliance are french and all the horde are english, then we a rip those froggies limb from limb just like we used to do hundreds of years ago! (JOKE!!!)

HEHE, thats funny. That actually would be a cool idea. Too bad Blizzard probably wont implement it.

At least I hope so for you non-English-French-or-Germans

Not all non-english/german/french want their own server, or have any problems speaking english. Im Norwegian, and I would stay far away from the type of server you describe. I (and I dare say most norwegians) have no particular need to speak norwegian in-game, and whats more, on a server with no "prefered" language, the chat channels would no doubt be filled with alot of languages I cant understand, which makes for a somewhat anoying game experience.

[handyman24602]

didnt take long for the 'nazi bigiot' and 'xenophobic' comments to come out, in real life this would be concidered slander, idont know why people seem to get away using these phrases as a cheap tool to attack someones post. i supose i was just just thinking that our different languages dont exist in the warcraft universe, its just one common tongue, i like the idea of being able to talk to and understand everyone in the world. When i see an ork warrior i want to think hes from durotar rather from x country when he speaks x language.

[BeanBaker]

What makes you think that, (NOT EVERY server will have a preferred language!!!...)

If I sum up the number of servers WITH a preferred language I count two for each language and I think this is each for PvP AND PvE. So I count 2x3x2 = 12 servers WITH a preferred language at the start of FB. An estimated population of about 5000 (correct me if you know better) per server would mean 60.000 final-beta-testers if there are NO language-specific servers.

I think the number of sold pre-order boxes in Europe exceeds that number (Correct me again if you like). So Blizzard must know twelve servers are not enough at the start of FB.

To think of "suggested" servers for different languages is in fact only a guess of course, but Blizzard usually likes to learn from faults in the past. And these must not have been Blizzard's faults. ;)

[AngryMob]

Or you could all leave us alone. I think it's bad enough we Spanish, Portuguese, etc. don't get a localized version of the game NOR specific servers to play, we can really do without your nazi biggotry. Thanks a lot for the warm welcome.

Yes, that goes for you, Morphina. I'm developing a strong sentiment against you.


go and whine in SPANISH forums if u must. i will take Morphina's advice and report EVERY SINGLE PERSON speaking some other language in english server general chat. that goes also for names that conflict with the Naming Policy (http://en.wow-europe.com/policy/naming.shtml)

[brainwipe]

...correct me if...
Nahh, im not going to do that, is a good point, well made, and I hope its right, certainly makes sence...

I had kind of invisiged them littereally adding servers with a set prefered language as players log in and select their servers to play on, could be done very quick if they have pre configured servers ready to go *shrug* this is what they would have to do _after_ the beta... so I assumed what they would also be doing during the beta. Guess we will have to wait and see realy...

---

Oh AngryMob, chill out man...

[Mort]

that goes also for names that conflict with the Naming Policy (http://en.wow-europe.com/policy/naming.shtml)

I agree about speaking a different language in the general chat, but what about names? I know you cant use a name like "Fire", but what if I named my character "Ild", which is norwegian for fire. Would that be against the nameing policy? What if I named my guild "Ild Folket", which means "the fire people". Is that against the naming policy? Now what about swearwords in different languages?

Im just asking this out of curiosity.

Mort

[herekleitos]

I agree about speaking a different language in the general chat, but what about names? I know you cant use a name like "Fire", but what if I named my character "Ild", which is norwegian for fire. Would that be against the nameing policy? What if I named my guild "Ild Folket", which means "the fire people". Is that against the naming policy? Now what about swearwords in different languages?

Im just asking this out of curiosity.

Mort
Quite the opposite, actually. Blizzard frown on english descriptive words that are used as name. So by their reasoning "Ild" is a much better name than "Fire".

I heard that a character named "crafty" was given a new random name by a GM for violating the naming policy.

Names are names, they are meant to point to a character, not to describe him or her. Their function is to act a "unique denominators", to use the language of philosophy.

[handyman24602]

i would of thought the nameing polcy would extend to names of a foreign language being unaceptable, because they are seen by all others and destroy the continuity of the warcraft universe

What if I named my guild "Ild Folket", which means "the fire people".

i think it would be much better to call your guild 'the fire people' because it would involve everyone in the realm, rather than just norwegians. i dont think there should be divides forming based on what country you come or language you speakpersonaly i dont think there should be any sort of national indentity in game other than the in game nations like undead/human/orks . if you join a german, french or english server your should speak in its langauge and name under that language, so everybody feels part of the same world

[SuAside]

the naming policy on guild names is rather lacks. the fire people would be allowed in any language.

player names are rather a touchy subject as atm, it seems that names only get changed when someone complains about someones name. blizzard doesnt seem to check the database for bad names...

basically: are you offended by an abusive name, report it and explain why.

[frixion]

What makes you think that, see my post above, or the "Server languages" post on wow-europe... unless there has been a change of heart, and announcement to the contrary (and would be nice if there has been) ALL european servers will be assigned a preferred language...

What is the "Other" tab for on the server selection screen for then?

English, French, German, Other....

[brainwipe]

What is the "Other" tab for on the server selection screen for then?

English, French, German, Other....

OMG failed my observancy test _again_ :o (crawls off somewhere)
Still, poor wording on the blizz post though ;)

[Qinetiq]

didnt take long for the 'nazi bigiot' and 'xenophobic' comments to come out, in real life this would be concidered slander, idont know why people seem to get away using these phrases as a cheap tool to attack someones post. i supose i was just just thinking that our different languages dont exist in the warcraft universe, its just one common tongue, i like the idea of being able to talk to and understand everyone in the world. When i see an ork warrior i want to think hes from durotar rather from x country when he speaks x language.

And in real life telling a group of people speaking Spanish on a street corner to speak English could very well get you arrested for discrimination. Also, calling someone a "xenophobe" if the person displays xenophobic tendencies is NOT slander. Slander, libel and defamation can only be applied when the statement being made is patently untrue. The statement, "I think everyone should speak English," irrespective of its context can be construed as a remark which displays xenophobia in the publisher (speaker) of the statement.

On the other hand, calling somone a "nazi bigot" would certainly fall under current defamation laws (in the UK and US) because the term "nazi" cannot be applied reasonably, so by it's inclusion in the statement it MUST be intended to defame the recipient of the comment.

[handyman24602]

And in real life telling a group of people speaking Spanish on a street corner to speak English could very well get you arrested for discrimination. Also, calling someone a "xenophobe" if the person displays xenophobic tendencies is NOT slander. Slander, libel and defamation can only be applied when the statement being made is patently untrue. The statement, "I think everyone should speak English," irrespective of its context can be construed as a remark which displays xenophobia in the publisher (speaker) of the statement.

On the other hand, calling somone a "nazi bigot" would certainly fall under current defamation laws (in the UK and US) because the term "nazi" cannot be applied reasonably, so by it's inclusion in the statement it MUST be intended to defame the recipient of the comment.

Main Entry: xe·no·pho·bia
Pronunciation: "zen-&-'fO-bE-&, "zEn-
Function: noun
: fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign

i am not afraid of foreigners im afraid of discontinuity, stating that ' everyone should speak english ' on a english speaking server is not unduly unreasonalble, neither does blizzard think its unreasonable by telling people to speak english
I have heard of German/French/Swedish speaking people being temporarily banned from US servers for using their native language in general chat.
blizzard dont get arrested for discrimination because this isnt the real world, its a fantasy world where communcation between its residents is vital to keep the world alive and provide entertainment.

[NotAgain]

Main Entry: xe·no·pho·bia
Pronunciation: "zen-&-'fO-bE-&, "zEn-
Function: noun
: fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign

i am not afraid of foreigners im afraid of discontinuity, stating that ' everyone should speak english ' on a english speaking server is not unduly unreasonalble, neither does blizzard think its unreasonable by telling people to speak english

blizzard dont get arrested for discrimination because this isnt the real world, its a fantasy world where communcation between its residents is vital to keep the world alive and provide entertainment.
Xenophobia is a concept that can be applied to many circumstances. Stating that everyone on an EUROPEAN server should speak english is unreasonable and coming from this context it does seem to be a bit xenophobic.

Also, nazi bigot is perhaps a little strong but certain parallels could be drawn, as nazi's were also very xenophobic. Therefore, by calling someone a nazi bigot in this context you are clearly emphasizing the xenophobic tendencies of this concept, making it a just comment. Wether I agree with it or not has nothing to do with it, I'm just saying that the term in this context was properly used. And in the laws of my country, it wouldn't be an offense, but that's properly because I live in the country where free speech is a reality outside of presidential speeches :)

People will be allowed and should be allowed to speak their own language on an english server and blizzard won't be able to stop this. It has never hurt any other server in any other mmorpg and it won't here. In fact it only adds to the diversity of the server, having people from different cultural backgrounds. On top of that, if someone speaks a foreign language you can't understand the comment was most likely not directed at you and therefore it shouldn't matter to you. Saying that everyone should speak english, conform, is just nonsense.

Also, there is a lot of self-censorship involved in this. As I previously stated most of the non english chat happends in the /say and private channels. When it occassionaly comes into general channels people will just politely ask people to speak english and 99% of the times people will do so.

To be honest, I don't see the big deal. It's never been a problem as such in any game. In fact, since I have been playing mmo's I couldn't imagine one without swedish and dutch guilds, or french and german communities. It's just something that belongs to european gaming and I love it. So yeah, wanting everyone to speak english is a tad xenophobic, the world does not revolve around you or your culture and on an international server people will speak internationally, be glad for it because diversity is precious and conformity dulls the mind! ;)

[handyman24602]

yes the server is available to all europeans but it is an english server. i dont want any national identity whithin the game whither it be english,french, german or any other language, i dont know maybe its just the role player in me.

[Morphina]

So without realising it, i started a war on theses sites (Again). but.....


-If there are rules apply to them, rules are there with a purpose
-If you don't apply to rules, you break them, which will get you reported, wether ingame or in real life. Otherwise we would end up with an anarchy.

Its so simple, and it is my opinion!!!! And noboddy could ever state that applying to the rules is wrong.


And for those people saying that i am english, i am not, i am dutch. But you will never hear me speak any dutch in General chat.

As for spanish servers....I never understood why there are no Spanish servers in any major MMORPG as next to spain almost all of southern America speaks spanish. Where French and German are only spoken in France and Germany and a few other million people around the world. (Austria, schweiz.....some african countries speaking french)

But there are more people on this globe that speak Spanish then people who speak english as their native tongue.

[AngryMob]

spanish speaking countries are less developed than english/german/french speaking states, the same reason for why wow is not translated to russian, they are economicaly poor countries so not much profit in there to translate the game.

[oper]

Its so simple, and it is my opinion!!!! And noboddy could ever state that applying to the rules is wrong.

well actually, the Nuremburg trials had another oppinion.

[[MMO]Nick]

Hey I thought these servers were given a set language prefference to ensure quality assistance could be rendered by Blizzard.

Ie you play on german server if your main language is german because it makes it easier to communicate any issues with a Blizzard representative.
It you're Italian but only know a little english, then your best bet is the English server.

I seriously don't think Blizzard expect people to slavishly speak only the specified language on regional servers, the odd foriegn lingo slipping into general is easily ignored, and usually it's a please for other german/french/italian players to join a group of similar players.

It's a service issue not a descriminatory measure.

[Lumirage]

And for those people saying that i am english, i am not, i am dutch. But you will never hear me speak any dutch in General chat.

Same here.

If you don't want to speak English, or if you can't speak English, then don't speak in General at all. You can chat with your friends through private chats (whisper, party etc.). And if you are wanting to speak your own language so badly you can at least look up how to ask: "Are there any <insert language here> speaking people that want to team up with me?"

It just irritates me to see people speaking 10 different languages in the General Chat. It ruins the gameplay, distracts you and you'll never know what they're saying.

[Mort]

I think this is getting a little bit out of hand, and I dont think everyone is speaking about the same thing. So in order to help things along, I propose the following two definitions:

- Private Communication: Communicating with someone using among other things the guild chat, /whisper, mails, private/custom chat channels or /s when in a quiet corner of the world.

- Public Communication: Communicating with someone using among other things the general chat, trade chat, /shout or /s when in a heavily populated area.

I dont seriously think that anyone has anything against people using non-english/german/french when privatly communicating, and I atleast have nothing against people making guilds specificly for an area and/or people (polish, danish etc).

However, publicly communicating using a foreign language (foreign in this case refers to anything but the designated language for the server) is a whole other ballgame. A simgle comment or two is one thing, but watching a whole conversation play out on the general chat in a language I dont understand is more then a little annoying (from my point of view, they might as well type random letters in the channel, and that would be bordering spamming). I dont know about other countries, but where Im from it is considered inpolite to speak a language when someone in the same company is not able to understand it (if you are at a party, sitting around a table, and two people start conversing in spanish for example. I am not talking about caring about the total stranger sitting next to you at the train).

I played in an international guild in SWG, and one of our most basic rules was that we did not use a language in the guild chat if someone currently online did not speak that language. I thought that was a good rule, and I got the impression most people liked it.

This has nothing to do with xenophobia or "nazi bigotry" as someone called it. I would report a norwegian if he spoke norwegian in the general chat, and I cant be xenophobic against my own people can I? :D It is about having a little respect towards other players, and accept that there are multiple countries represented on the servers, and not everyone speaks every language.

Mort

[handyman24602]

I think this is getting a little bit out of hand, and I dont think everyone is speaking about the same thing. So in order to help things along, I propose the following two definitions:

- Private Communication: Communicating with someone using among other things the guild chat, /whisper, mails, private/custom chat channels or /s when in a quiet corner of the world.

- Public Communication: Communicating with someone using among other things the general chat, trade chat, /shout or /s when in a heavily populated area.

I dont seriously think that anyone has anything against people using non-english/german/french when privatly communicating, and I atleast have nothing against people making guilds specificly for an area and/or people (polish, danish etc).

However, publicly communicating using a foreign language (foreign in this case refers to anything but the designated language for the server) is a whole other ballgame. A simgle comment or two is one thing, but watching a whole conversation play out on the general chat in a language I dont understand is more then a little annoying (from my point of view, they might as well type random letters in the channel, and that would be bordering spamming). I dont know about other countries, but where Im from it is considered inpolite to speak a language when someone in the same company is not able to understand it (if you are at a party, sitting around a table, and two people start conversing in spanish for example. I am not talking about caring about the total stranger sitting next to you at the train).

I played in an international guild in SWG, and one of our most basic rules was that we did not use a language in the guild chat if someone currently online did not speak that language. I thought that was a good rule, and I got the impression most people liked it.

This has nothing to do with xenophobia or "nazi bigotry" as someone called it. I would report a norwegian if he spoke norwegian in the general chat, and I cant be xenophobic against my own people can I? :D It is about having a little respect towards other players, and accept that there are multiple countries represented on the servers, and not everyone speaks every language.

Mort

nicely put.

[Hettar]

But there are more people on this globe that speak Spanish then people who speak english as their native tongue.
wrong : it's 1 Chinese (mandarin or cantonese, don't know) 2 english (with the help of India) and 3 spanish :)

I have a comparison in mind that I think will be helpful :
The wwn forums are a place where people from a lot of countries meet and talk in harmony. The langage used is english. Would you like to see threads in dutch, german or french? I know I wouldn't. I respect privacy of course, but I like to be able to understand (even if I don't listen) what people are saying aloud around me, that's common courtesy.
just my 2 coppers

ps and if anyone is offended by my post, I'm sorry, I don't mean to be aggressive :)
ps #2 : kudos to Mort's post, very nice sum up :thumbsup:

[brainwipe]

But there are more people on this globe that speak Spanish then people who speak english as their native tongue.
wrong : it's 1 Chinese (mandarin or cantonese, don't know) 2 english (with the help of India) and 3 spanish

Sorry, Morphina is right, the key word here is _native_ English is not the native language of India... far more people speak fluent Spanish than fluent English...


I think this is getting a little bit out of hand...

Yay, sence! :D

[NotAgain]

This has nothing to do with xenophobia or "nazi bigotry" as someone called it. I would report a norwegian if he spoke norwegian in the general chat, and I cant be xenophobic against my own people can I? :D It is about having a little respect towards other players, and accept that there are multiple countries represented on the servers, and not everyone speaks every language.

Mort
If it's about respect, then why not respect other peoples national identies and let them speak their own language? Respect works both ways, and in reality it actually plays out like that as well.

People will speak foreign languages, but they will do so in measure and will try to avoid doing so on general channels as much as possible. The odd few conversations in general chat in a language you can't understand don't hurt anyone and they usually don't last longer than 2 minutes anyway.

Honestly, I don't see the big deal here. Reality has shown that international servers work without any problems. And yeah you can be xenophobic to your own people, xenophobia is a broad concept and it doesn't specify at which point you should differ from other people in order to see them as 'strangers', in your case you choose to place people who speak any other language than english in the group of 'strangers', you choose to distance yourself from them. That is xenophobic, wether they are from your country or not.

Not that I think you're xenophobic btw, I find the terms used in this conversation truly overbearing. I'm just argueing a point ;)

[handyman24602]

If it's about respect, then why not respect other peoples national identies and let them speak their own language?

There should be no national identities england, france and german and not countrys in warcraft.

[Mort]

And yeah you can be xenophobic to your own people, xenophobia is a broad concept and it doesn't specify at which point you should differ from other people in order to see them as 'strangers', in your case you choose to place people who speak any other language than english in the group of 'strangers', you choose to distance yourself from them.

Ah, but if I distance myself from them, then they arnt my people anymore, are they? :D But your point is well taken.

If it's about respect, then why not respect other peoples national identies and let them speak their own language? Respect works both ways, and in reality it actually plays out like that as well.

So we are left with to possibilities:

I) Person A can respect Person B by not being anoying.

---OR---

II) Person B can respect Person A's right to be anoying.

Hm, tough choice........ :D

I dont know. Idealy the server community should strive to allow a bit of both. Maybe that short comments or conversations in public communications are accepted, but that long, drawn out conversations are best left to private communication.

But in my opinion, if it comes down to one or the other, I chose option 1. This is simpy because I would rather have the general chat free from foreign languages then have the option to speak my own in the general chat.

[herekleitos]

OMGs!

Are you guys still at it? I thought we settled this dispute on page two! The level of debate is certainly a bit higher than on the official forums, but for crying out loud ...

[NotAgain]

There should be no national identities england, france and german and not countrys in warcraft.
No there shouldn't be, yet all non native english speaking people are forced into a nationality that isn't their own by playing the game. Fact is, there are nationalities in the real world, and there are differences between them in language and culture. However, there is no problem in letting them play on the same server as long as they all respect eachother.

And respecting eachother means that non-english speakers will speak english most of the time, and that english speakers accept that every now and then people will speak in their own language.

And again, the european gaming community is already used to this. Every game I play online I play on EU servers and theres constantly people who speak other languages about and I have never felt offended or annoyed by it nor have I witnessed other people get freaked about it. Sometimes people will ask others to just speak english on a general channel if it gets a bit out of hand, and then that wish is respected nine out of ten times. Personally, I almost never speak dutch in any game, occassionaly I will but usually it's just english.

That's the way it will go and that's the way it's been going on every other EU server for years now, there won't be an issue unless people choose to make it one (like in this thread ;))

[herekleitos]

:rolleyes:

[handyman24602]

i ll have to see how it works in game, however i like the idea that in the american servers, everyone speaks one language, without fail every single person you encouter is going to be able to understand and commicate you. To me its going to seem a whole lot more fake if someone speaks a different language, it takes you out of the game world.

[Mort]

Personally, I almost never speak dutch in any game, occassionaly I will but usually it's just english.

That's the way it will go and that's the way it's been going on every other EU server for years now, there won't be an issue unless people choose to make it one (like in this thread ;))

I agree with you to a certain degree, and I hope your right. But I guess we'll know soon enough, because the Euro Final Beta is right around the corner, and if your wrong, we will all be back here, having the same discussion :)

[brainwipe]

...and if your wrong, we will all be back here, having the same discussion :)

Nahh, looks like this discussion will be going well into the beta ;) maybe even the retail release... its practiaclly 'stickied' itself! :p

[Perrin]

I was going to speak strictly english come retail, but if I meet people like mr Handyman ingame, I'll be sure to throw a few dutch sentences around.

And of course there won't be problems with languages in retail. 99% of the players will try to speak the preferred language as often as possible. Of course there will be newbie/drunk/whatever shouts/yells/says in other languages, and there will probably be socially handicapped and intolerant people like the OPer complaining about those and trying to get them banned so he can enjoy his purely english game better.

[Xmoralis]

I have never read a Fantasy book in norwegian only in english
I have never watch a movie dubbed in norwegian not evel italian spagetti westerns :p
And i have never and WILL NOT play a mmorpg in the norwegian language.
i must say im a bit suprised people is having this conversation at all?
speak you native language with your friends and in party if they all are from the same country else speak english,german, or french easy as that ;)

best regards Xmoralis The Norwegian
/edit

brainwipe said in earlier post
...anyway, I was hopeing that we could have a server where all the alliance are french and all the horde are english, then we a rip those froggies limb from limb just like we used to do hundreds of years ago! (JOKE!!!)
Cough why not go back about 1100 years and lets pretend the scandiavians are horde and rest of europe are alliance and we vikings can come gank your a** :cool: JOKE!!!!....

[Morphina]

brainwipe said in earlier post
...anyway, I was hopeing that we could have a server where all the alliance are french and all the horde are english, then we a rip those froggies limb from limb just like we used to do hundreds of years ago! (JOKE!!!) Well atleast this is a good thing comming from this post, it is actually a very good idea, and it could bring us ballanced servers....with an even number of horde and alliance players. this would be PvP servers though

But i don't think Blizzard could organise this the way language servers are set up now.

[handyman24602]

I was going to speak strictly english come retail, but if I meet people like mr Handyman ingame, I'll be sure to throw a few dutch sentences around.

thats very mature of you perrin

[Perrin]

thanks :D

Always happy to be of service

[Dentro]

Hi, im swedish , and I just want to say that in all the onlinegames I've played I _always_ speak english when i know that there are people not from sweden on that server/realm.

But if I know that there are only swedes there I will of course use swedish :)

My 2 coppers.

Whoops! Forgot to say that I will of course do so in WoW also :P

/ Dentro

[Shirogane]

Since part of the later half of the discussion stemmed from my earlier post, I think I should clarify a little:

1) I have never, and I certainly agree that it would be bad practice, used non-preferred languages on any general chat channels nor yells. This is more a matter of courtesy than anything else, but also simple functionality (why would I address someone in a language they don't understand?). Further, I never used Spanish in a party once a non-Spanish speaker was present (I was partying once with a real-life friend, then we invited another European and we both used only English. I used tells to communicate in Spanish with my friend).

2) I was referring to the earlier comments which forbid the use of non-preferred languages in regular /s conversations, which I think to be quite a bit too much. If I'm talking to a friend who's next to me, I'm talking to him. If you overhear us, that's your problem, but you have no business listening to my conversation. As for the "doesn't exist in the WoW world", please... hit points, experience, real-life issues, does all that exist in the Warcraft world? If you care so much for immersion, I don't see why you're not playing in a RP server.

[Morphina]

I don't see why you're not playing in a RP server.

Because Blizzard still has to announce these RP servers for europe.

And then there will be 3 types of dedicated language servers. English, french and german......All servers PvP,PvE and RP will fall in one of these cattegories.

And yes......people speaking foreign languages in /s distract me from my immersion. (I know this from my experience in games like DAoC and Horizons).
And i have to addmit that most dutch and Scandinavian people allways try to speak english. But there was a group of Spanish players on Albion Excalibur servers allways shouting and speaking in Spanish, sometimes refusing to speak english. This was not good for the community feeling. But Horizons without any language regulations was far worse. There was no community at all, all people speaking their own languages breaking a game that could have been so great even more.

So don't beleive that i don't know what i am talking about because i speak from six years of MMORPG experience, and when i say that there is a pollicy, i say don't break it, because there is a reason for a pollicy like this.

And then something more....the /s is the most holiest of all chats to a roleplayer and isn't this game a roleplaying game after all. So yes in the /s where we express ourselves as the characters we play, hearing a different language distracts me the most of all.

I prefer mixxed guilds above country based guilds, because they add so much more flavour to the game. But i can understand groups of RL friends teaming up together and there is nothing wrong with speaking your own language in these groups, or even in your Spanish or Italian guild. But not in /s chat where other people can get annoyed.

As i told before, this is my opininion backed up by the prefered language pollicy from Blizzard.

[NotAgain]

I will say it again, I find all this 'english' speak very immersion breaking for me.


To say that you find a different language immersion breaking is just such an invalid arguement. How about when someone gets a time-out and disconnects, how immersion breaking is that? Or maybe when they excuse themselves to go to the bathroom, that doesn't sound very immersion-like now does it? Do you never say 'hang on the phone' or '**** someone at the door'? Breaking the immersion will happen countless of times on a day, and really, someone speaking a different language is just one small part of that. So if you can get over all that other stuff, why not over the language? I find it egotistical and self-absorbed that you wouldn't want 'your gameplay' to be 'interupted' because someone has a few words in their own tongue.

So yes, of all the arguements in this thread I find 'immersion breaking' a really weak and self-absorbed one. Respect goes both ways, and non-english speaking people respect the english community 9/10 times, yet here I see so many people who don't even respect that 1 time out of 10 when people speak in their own language to eachother. That, to be honest, is quite sad.

[Blackmoon]

I can easily understand people saying they don't like people speaking another language on public channels, but someone here mentioned names in another language be bad too. Why? How? What harm is it to you if my last name in a game would be Mustakuu instead of Blackmoon? Or Veriviha instead of Hateblood? Or Kuunsuomu instead of Moonscale?

[Mort]

I was the one who brought up names in different languages, and I didnt suggest that they were a bad thing. I was just currious whether or not they would be considered violations of the naming policy.

The only bad aspect of this would be if people used swearwords in another language as names. Ofcourse to most people it would seem like just another name, but anyone who understood the language in question would understand the meaning behind the name. I think Blizzard should step up and change these names if someone reports them.

[handyman24602]

blizzard is been really strict with names, they have to make sense in a game context, any reference to real life is not allowed, so is nosensical names which includeds foreign language to a foreigner.

[NotAgain]

blizzard is been really strict with names, they have to make sense in a game context, any reference to real life is not allowed, so is nosensical names which includeds foreign language to a foreigner.
Damn, all those english names are foreign to me and you know, since I'm not 'that' great in english most of them don't make any sense to me and to a lot of other 'europeans' don't really understand them as well. I guess those english people should change their names then because to a large part of the community they do not make any sense.

People, get of your high horses. We are europeans, not english or american. Accept that fact and accept that being european means different culture, different country and different language. Accept that the english part of europe is a very small minority compared to the non-english part. Accept that because most people know english, it's used as the server language. Accept that not everyone wants to speak english constantly and all the time. Accept that this mmo nor this world do NOT revolve around you and accept that every now and again you will be confronted with some language you don't understand. Accept all this and you'll be a lot more at peace with yourself, and if you are really getting into a hissy fit over the fact that god forbid not everyone speaks the same language in "your" game, you could really use some peace and quiet in your brain, because you need to sort out your priorities.

[handyman24602]

-------------------------------------------------------

[handyman24602]

Damn, all those english names are foreign to me and you know, since I'm not 'that' great in english most of them don't make any sense to me and to a lot of other 'europeans' don't really understand them as well. I guess those english people should change their names then because to a large part of the community they do not make any sense.

People, get of your high horses. We are europeans, not english or american. Accept that fact and accept that being european means different culture, different country and different language. Accept that the english part of europe is a very small minority compared to the non-english part. Accept that because most people know english, it's used as the server language. Accept that not everyone wants to speak english constantly and all the time. Accept that this mmo nor this world do NOT revolve around you and accept that every now and again you will be confronted with some language you don't understand. Accept all this and you'll be a lot more at peace with yourself, and if you are really getting into a hissy fit over the fact that god forbid not everyone speaks the same language in "your" game, you could really use some peace and quiet in your brain, because you need to sort out your priorities.

take a chill pill this is a forum about a game on the internet, not the united nations, this the exact kind of thing i was worried about peeps bringing eu politics into a game that does not need them. thanks for worring about my mental state though its nice to know people care, since your thread i went out and brought a big white board so i could properly assess my priorities.
here they are

1. buy food and pay rent
2. study for degree
3. maintain reationship with girlfriend
4. socialise with freinds
.................
10. save enough money for would of warcraft ;)
.................
.................
.................1456. make sure i show ''respect'' to Obnoxious forum members who take every other opertunity to insult me

[NotAgain]

take a chill pill this is a forum about a game on the internet, not the united nations, this the exact kind of thing i was worried about peeps bringing eu politics into a game that does not need them. thanks for worring about my mental state though its nice to know people care, since your thread i went out and brought a big white board so i could properly assess my priorities.
here they are

1. buy food and pay rent
2. study for degree
3. maintain reationship with girlfriend
4. socialise with freinds
.................
10. save enough money for would of warcraft ;)
.................
.................
.................1456. make sure i show ''respect'' to Obnoxious forum members who take every other opertunity to insult me
Great way of changing the topic, I guess when you're out of arguements you have to resort to methods like that though. I don't care if you show respect for me however, because I am disagreeing with you and not being entirely nice about it, the 'respect' I mentioned had to do with ingame languages. I'm sure you were well aware of that though, you'd have to been stupid not too, but you were busy changing the topic and all so I understand.

Also, just for the record. If I had wanted to insult you at every opportunity that I got, you'd be home whining with an inferiority complex and I'd been banned. :cool:

[Lumirage]

Also, just for the record. If I had wanted to insult you at every opportunity that I got, you'd be home whining with an inferiority complex and I'd been banned. :cool:

You're so cool :eek:

[gL_Zan]

Well I Hope they enforce the English/Language on the English servers, if you don't like it you don't have to play on one.
Simple as that.

And i hope not hear any more whining about the languages - only three countries from Europe got them and that was about 2 to much. (I'm not from UK btw) I don't understand why France and Germany need the language servers.. don't get any education there?

[Alia Vetinari]

hi im not part of the beta, but considering retail. I was just wondering what the rules were on the use of foreign language on english servers. For me personaly use of foreign language and names would ruin the game expierence, i would like to feel like i was in the universe. on the beta servers is this a problem.
Yeah.. because we all know 'Malfurion', 'Tyrande', 'Arthas' and what not are very English names..
Just because you use a name that means something in other language, it doesn't mean that it's 'national identity', unless you name your character after something that means like "[insert nationality] is better". I'll probably use made-up names all the time, though, hey.. they might mean something in some other language, and I might not know it.
How are YOU going to tell if a name you don't 'understand' is a foreign word or a made-up name? Are you going to write down every single character name and then report it after googling it for a hidden meaning?

And because you speak a certain language it doesn't mean you have any feelings for the country that language is originally from. I'm from Spain, and I have no sense of 'national pride' at all. I'll speak English in most places, except in private with my friends.
take a chill pill this is a forum about a game on the internet, not the united nations
Yet it worries you that a character with a 'foreign' name, such as a fantasy name, will ruin your game experience..

[handyman24602]

as long as i can reconise a name as been part of the warcraft world i dont really care, i dont think my forum name would be alowed neither a name like dave or mike

[Singu]

This thread is like a bad rash that just wont go away.

The game isn't launched yet. It will have something the other MMOs had, localized servers. Untill you know the situation there is no reason to pick it to death by hypothezing about what might and might not be in the future.

I think most regular players squelch the general channel. So the problem is really not much of a deal. Unless someone harass you in their native language there is no reason to get worked up here. Then you can page a CM and complain, and the offender will likely be warned or kicked/banned if it's a repeating offender.

My prediction is that 99% of the communication on the EN servers will be in understandable english. Based on experience from a US PVE server during OB it might not be very interesting communication though. Hence a squelch of general chat was my regular action when I logged on.

[handyman24602]

can you disable general chat? if you do can your friends still msg you thru other means

[Lumirage]

can you disable general chat? if you do can your friends still msg you thru other means

You can leave the General Chat channel.
Your friends can whisper (/w) you. Just type /w name message.

[Singu]

You can leave the General Chat channel.
Your friends can whisper (/w) you. Just type /w name message.

Yes, a bit bad wording by me there. You can leave channels, not squelch them. /squelch is for players, not channels. I'm not too sure if I remember the command, but I think it was /chat exit [1. general].

[Squarebob Spongepants]

Isn't it /leave followed by the number of the channel (ie /leave 1 to not be bothered by the moronic gibberish in general)?

[Lumirage]

Isn't it /leave followed by the number of the channel (ie /leave 1 to not be bothered by the moronic gibberish in general)?

Correct. :)

[herekleitos]

/leave <this_thread>

[Rylan]

If I happen upon a group of players on my English server, chatting in Norwegian ( like I'd know ) or Spanish ( I would know, I speak it well enough to get by ) then I wouldn't object.

If I see a large group of French or Germans on that server chatting away in their respective languages I'll report them. There is no defence really and Blizzard see it the same way.

I dont mind one or two people, Im certainly not going to object if a French person doesnt want to leave his otherwise all English guild but if I see any French or German guilds starting up then I'd be happy to point them in the right direction.

[Anyee]

Ah, I love it when people throw the word Nazi around. I fail to see how someone disliking the speaking of languages other than English equivocates in even the least, tiniest bit with one of the most destructive forces of the 20th century.

Nazis were xenophobic. So are the French (ever ask an Algerian how he or she feels in France? How about a Jew?). So are various ethnic majorities and minorities all over Africa. So are people all over the world. It's a weak comparison at best. Don't throw around the word Nazi. Most of you are too young to know anyone who survived the holocaust. I'm sure quite a few of you don't even believe it existed. None of you, I'll bet, are Jewish. Please, use another adjective. Nazi should be reserved for grotesque mutilations of the human condition and never, ever in the context of an internet forum.

And thanks to the magic of babelfish, plus my own fluency in a handful of languages, anything you swear at me in any language can be translated...and reported to the appropriate GMs/mods. :)

[Mort]

I think this thread is getting abit too close to a flame war, so lets cool down a little.

Anyway, Thundgot posted this on the forums a few hours ago:

As the regular web site and the news explaining a bit about server languages are currently unavailable I figured I'd drop by this thread with a small clarification: public chat and contact with customer service is required to be in the server's preferred language.

So that clears it up. No non-english/french/german in public chat. Like it or not, thats the way Blizzard wants it.

Here (http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general-en&T=36587&P=1) is the thread btw.

[brainwipe]

Nahh, looks like this discussion will be going well into the beta ;) maybe even the retail release... its practiaclly 'stickied' itself! :p

Bahh, sometimes I realy wish I wasn't right!!! :p