Paladin vs. Rogues PVP

[Joje]

Hello everyone! :) I have played the europe final beta now since it started, and I have tried some different classes. I have played a troll shaman (27) , dwarf paladin (15) and a NE warrior (22) and I must say the most ennoying class to fight is the rogue...

Whenever in a fight there always seems to be 1 rogue that stands behind you and take you out when you are fighting all the others... And if you are walking all alone, suddenly you notice some1 is attacking you, a rogue of course... I'm mostly wondering if the paladin is the best class against rogues, and if not, WHO IS? It seems to me that rogues can sneak-kill a lot of ppl in a rather easy way, and nobody (that i have played with) can do anything about it... I hate rogues, pls help me get rid of them :P

[Parlainth]

Playing a human paladin I had little trouble when facing rogues (in duels that is, this might not apply as well in a pvp server scenario) of equal level. Retribution aura can actually be more worthwhile then devotion cause of their insane attack speeds, those 5/8 or more ticks really stack up if you duel for say a minute. If he attempts to stealth just use human perception. Outlasting them is not that hard if you use seal of light and a couple of heals. I did not lose a single fight to a rogue out of the maybe 9-10 fights I did last night.

btw this was with a lvl 30 paladin against rogues of lvl 28-35. I do realise that the outcome of the duels might differ alot if the duels were between lvl 60's, and it's also a possibility I played against unskilled rogues.

As for what class would be the best rogue killer I really can't say, but it sure as hell ain't a Warrior ^^

[Tyrka]

i have never been killed by a rogue with my lvl 45 paladin

we just own the class,

we own all melee ^^ with a shield

[BioZphish]

My Pali is level 29, and I was attacked by a level 43 Rogue in Ashenvale (always seems to be a ton of Horde there). I didn't attempt to fight him, but with a quick stun, was able to easily get away from him with very little damage. Currently I am able to go 1 on 1 vs any class that is 2 to 3 levels higher than me and win. Last night I was ganked by a level 38 Hunter and I had him running. Unfortunately I forgot about my healing potions :scratch: (still trying to figure that out) and he picked me off with a couple of shots from his rifle as I was trying to heal. Anyway, as long as you have a plan (and don't forget it) of healing and stuning and shielding, Palis' are pretty tough to beat.

[Brett15]

I can only see Rogues being a problem to a Pally if they are 2 handed and retribution speced.

A protection spec pally with Holy Shield will laugh at any rogue that tries to attack it. I have dueled and almost beaten same level Rogues with one shield equiped and no weapon in the main hand, without using one heal. Judge crusader and the rogue will lose half its hitpoints to damage reflected back via Holy Shield + Retribution aura + Mithril Spike.

[azis]

i think that a rogue can beat a pally if its a stunlock rogue cause if your stunned you cant do anything.
also magges are good against rogues you maby get critted for 1k (lvl 48) when they ambush you but you can easily blink and if arcane POM and poly them and if you think you can cast a long spell and try to own them otherwise just run and keep running and you will proberly make it

[Underling]

i think that a rogue can beat a pally if its a stunlock rogue cause if your stunned you cant do anything.
also magges are good against rogues you maby get critted for 1k (lvl 48) when they ambush you but you can easily blink and if arcane POM and poly them and if you think you can cast a long spell and try to own them otherwise just run and keep running and you will proberly make it

How do you stunlock a pally? Hello? It's usually the other way round:hanky:

[Findariel]

In the 30-39 BGs my paladin has never been beaten by a rogue 1 on 1.

Our thick armour prevents them from doing thát much damage (especially as shield wielding paladin) and my prot paladin's Reckoning was triggered a lot by the quick attacks from rogues, and Aura of Retribution is pretty effective against fast/dual wield attacks as well.

Usually it's ranged attackers and hunters that are our bane since our protection against magic is bad and on top of that we have no snares nor run skills, but I'd say we're very good against melee.

Only if all your shields and PvP trinkets and Lay on Hands are recharging and you're out of mana it may get hard. But against a fully charged pally rogues and warriors don't stand a chance.

[rottentomato]

lol pallys are a pain in the ass to fight...it hoestly depends on the spec of the pally and the spec of the rogue...as a combat rogue, i can usually stunlock most pallys until like a quarter of their health with no damage taken on my end, then they usually heal, shield and i vanish and do it all again...its a long ass fight..usually over 5 minutes, but once its over its down to the last few hp on each of us.


and as far as mages go...i love to eat clothies for breakfast. :) cheap shot ss ss gouge kidney shot ss ss evis done he doesnt move :)

[Oatmealsmurf]

I can pretty much outlast most rogues when I'm on my lock.... and if they don't take me down in the first couple of blows I can deal with them reasonably well on my mage (frost specced). You also have Hunters with flares... and it would seem to me that a pally vs rogue is a pretty easy fight for the pally.. against all but the best rogues. They aren't all powerful ... no longer the world of roguecraft... but they still rule the 10-19 bracket with an iron fist.

[Harsgalt]

Rogues are usually a joke to the paladin class in general...a few elite rogues though are master stun lockers...I've seen some rogues own paladins...stunlock and disable casting...whats a paladin to do with low hp full mana bar and no casting+ no bubble? Die

Edit:I noticed Zalgradis said he modified his talents to combat rogues in pvp...that really didnt make much sense to me...altho in his videos he takes on like 4 lvl 60 rogues at once which probably couldnt be done without such a specific spec :shocked:

[oramac]

How do you stunlock a pally? Hello? It's usually the other way round:hanky:


his bubbles on CD. past that theres really no way for a pally to get out of a stun. and always always always interrupt his heals. the kick thing is great b/c it prevents same type spell casts for 3 seconds. well, pallys only HAVE 1 type of spell, so they're pretty well screwed if you can stunlock and kick at the right times.

[azis]

on my rogue i can get a pally to about half health b4 he can do anything, aslong as you can get your cheapshot off if not your screwed
if you get cheap shot ss and kidney shot then they been stunned for about 10 seconds and if you got a group with you they should be dead pretty quickly

[Tanitha]

See, I don't get this.

I'm a Protection Specced Paladin, shield + mace. To the best of my knowledge I'm doing everything right - open with a judgement (Usually Justice or Crusader) with either the Seal of Light or the Seal of Righteousness on myself. A lot of movement, preferably around them rather than away from them with bubble ready for a heal. I need those. I usually run either Devotion or Righteousness with a Blessing of either Sanctuary or Wisdom, depending on the scenario. I keep Hammer of Justice for when they try to open up range. At level 38, I'm just under 3000ac with my shield. And yet, I still get obliterated on a regular basis. By any class.

I'd love to know what Paladins are doing that makes them so invulnerable - I find all my other characters to have more in the way of survivability than my Paladin. (Usually because they follow the kill quick method)

[Harsgalt]

From the sounds of it if your getting obliterated it means your not that good of a player. Now before anyone jumps on me let me say its always possible to improve when your at the stage of "I suck". The paladin's core pvp element is that the paladin just doesnt damn die. Suppose a rogue does two times more damage than you...its fine because you should have about 4 or so lifebars left to go. The way you do this is...heal yourself.. You should have at least 4 talent points in spiritual focus in the holy tree.

Ever paladin this is a must, why? In PVE and in PVP you are most in need of a heal when your being beat on. While a paladin can have multiple people/mobs beating the crap outta him, he can still get a heal off.

Also check if the rogues are backing up...if they back up they're trying to lure you into their melee range for 100% of possible hits and circling the oponent is very ineffective when they do this. ALthough as a paladin I found it didnt matter cause I noticed it after winning anyway. Kill quick method? Well if its 5 guys that might just drop your healthbar but if its one oponent of equivilant or similar level they should NEVER be able to "quick kill" you.

I often got angry at this higher lvl paladin in an instance cause he wouldnt heal complaining he had 5 mobs on him. I didnt care cause it doesnt matter. A paladin never dies with mana if you can survive that full attack for more than 10 seconds. Always heal...your dps is relatively lower than other classes with equivilant gear. So make sure you dont die and just melee em to death.

Here an example
Paladin 15hp
Rogue 10hp

Each takes turns attacking
Rogue doing 5 dmg
Paladin doing 3 dmg

after two hits the rogue has 4/10 hp while you would die the next hit...just heal and you take those two hits and you still got 5 hp left but he'll be dead.

Oh dont use devotion aura on rogues...retribution aura.

Concecration is good for decloaking rogues if you know where they are

Try not to let them run off and bandage while your stunned...if they attack after that with full hp counter with your own stun and heal yourself. Even with crusader judgement+stun avail remember healing yourself comes first cause your a paladin. I also find 1h dmg about 1/3 of the two hand so I dont like them too much but that just means you should be able to play the outlasting game longer. Hope this helped and joo become a great paladin yay

[Tanitha]

Try not to let them run off and bandage while your stunned...if they attack after that with full hp counter with your own stun and heal yourself. Even with crusader judgement+stun avail remember healing yourself comes first cause your a paladin. I also find 1h dmg about 1/3 of the two hand so I dont like them too much but that just means you should be able to play the outlasting game longer. Hope this helped and joo become a great paladin yay

I think it has to a degree, and I don't disagree with the statement that I might suck as a player. Very likely, in fact, which is why I was asking the question :grin:

My main problem with the heals was that they were getting slowed and often interrupted. Usually that means drinking a potion, but the cooldown on those are so long!

So how do you break out of the stuns? When I'm being assaulted by a rogue they usually tend to (a) hit me before I know they're there, usually severely depleting my life and (b) keep me in a perpetual state of stun. The bubbles can clear those, but then you've used the bubble and it's gone. Is there another way?

Rogues, Mages and Hunters are the three that cause me the most grief. I'll try the Retribution Aura, which with Blessing of Sanctuary and a Protection spec should work nicely against Rogues, but how do you get Mages and Hunters to stay in-close?

Once they start running they're almost impossible to catch!

[Underling]

From the sounds of it if your getting obliterated it means your not that good of a player.

What a silly and arrogant notion

He(maybe she)'s lvl 38, and that's probably it, that's all. The original poster here was complaining how easily he dies to a rogue, but hey, he's talking lvl 20-30. When the rogues are the kings of pvp, probably enchanted to about 200g worth.

I don't even know why people post tactics here, he who asked will be out of that lvl range in a day or two, and he will see that no sane rogue goes into a solo attack on a paladin without expecting to die

[Underling]

So how do you break out of the stuns?

Once they start running they're almost impossible to catch!

Not really worth getting worried about. You'll only spend a few days in those lvls. It's a completely different game at lvl 60. Once there, you'll find out it's you who does the stunlocking now

[Phixken]

WellUnderling,
Tanitha dose pose a good question. I my self as a rogue at level 70 now that tbc is out have no problem killing pallys that are 70 and in equal gear. Perhaps Tanitha's pally is just to be a twink for low level bg's. I do know that the pallys I have the hardest time with are the protect speck pallys with a shield and one hand weapon. Also Tanitha a lot of them use the aura that has a 70% chance of not being interrupted while casting heals. They stack that with the talent spiritual focus which makes it harder to interrupt spells which makes me hold off on my stuns until I see them casting a heal. Although that still dose not stop lay on hands which if you have even 1 mana gives you a full bar of health. Although it has a 1hour cool down I have had it used on me many a times in pvp. But the end result is the same I end up living while the pally dies. But its a good fight to the end that can end either way it all depends on your professions as well. If you are going to stay low level I suggest that you pick up engineering as they have stun bombs and trinkets that really help out in the low level pvp.

[farafel]

Paladins every one is like ''paladin this paladin that'' I must say from my expiriance that:
1. If you are a good player then you can kill everything with a holy priest
2. If on the other side is a stupid player then look at point one
3. If on the other side is a good player like you then is all down to who will out live the other
4. If you say something like ''I am a good player but i have problems with that class'' then you arent a good player and that means you need to train more...

[owlx]

... but rogues still rule the 10-19 bracket with an iron fist.


Actually as of late, that is hunter territory. That's the only class I can't outdamage with my twink warrior. Very close though

[Seeo]

Actually my wife's Twink Warlock rules her 10 - 19 BG's. She's an Engie too.

[owlx]

Horde lock's used to be pretty hardcore, prior to TBC. Any alliance shaman worth their salt will give horde warlocks a fit at 19.

Excorcism is a beast of a twink lock in my battlegroup. I had a real hard time taking him/her out with my warrior. I have a moderately twinked shaman and have had zero problems with locks thus far. 1v1 I'd still probably get pwnt by any full twink, but, as a moderate twink shaman I know my role and can survive long enough to get the help i need to take down twinks.

Alliance warlocks might have a better time of it now. I have seen very few horde shamans since TBC.

It still may be a safe bet. Most shaman's in the 19's are lame and have no idea what they are doing. They think they can hang in melee with the rogues and warriors, instead of playing the support role they are suited for. That's if they even play a shaman in 10-19. Most go straight to 20-29, where shamans start to get good.

I rarely see a map that doesn't end with hunters on the top of the kills and damage list............full twink hunters that is. My guildmate just got the cobrahide leg enchant on some +14 atk power leathers and hits very very hard..........at a range further than any other class, and that can take advantage of terrain...........In general Hunters own 10-19.

There may be a few exceptions to this. The player piloting the toon has a lot to do with it. As skilled as your wife is with a warlock, if she changed to a hunter, she'd probably pwn harder. There are a lot of pretenders out their, for every class. None piss me off more than hunters. I only know of about a handful that are truely worthy, but you get two or three moderate twink hunters together and they will just steamroll things on auto-shot

[kcma]

Harsgalt: no one, no matter how skilled can take on 4 rogues. unless the 4 rogues simply sucked.

tanitha: pally pvp relys alot on longevity. and 1 trick is to burn mana in bursts and maximize your regen. pally also has a range stun which i find annoying... just make your mana outlast a mana class and you're fine. also, never use a shield against casters... it's pointless ;)

[dreamofwrx]

Harsgalt: no one, no matter how skilled can take on 4 rogues. unless the 4 rogues simply sucked.

tanitha: pally pvp relys alot on longevity. and 1 trick is to burn mana in bursts and maximize your regen. pally also has a range stun which i find annoying... just make your mana outlast a mana class and you're fine. also, never use a shield against casters... it's pointless ;)


aye, i always have my two hander up when i face a caster, and swith back to shield one hander for the other way around. as far as rogues..its usually 50/50 with my holy/protection pally. Of course i have more points in protection since the last time i pvped with him....i miss pvp...leveling two players sucks.