Paladin weakness?

[garebear2571]

Ok, I've played Horde my whole "career" (if you will) and my alliance server paladin is level 11 (so boring I couldn't stand it). Only deaths I've heard of were fights between warriors (using mortal strike so limiting their healing capacities), druids (doing the fight in bear form, caster form and heal when pally shields and heals, and back to bear, etc), and legendary fights. I've seriously never talk to anyone other than a warrior or a druid who has LEGITAMATELY beaten a paladin. By legitamate I mean equal level both people starting with full life/mana (or energy).

The 2 dispells they get (which are apparently castable when feared or silenced) and that 6 second stun and those 4 life bars are kind of irritating.

So my question is, how does one go about beating a paladin? I wanted to try to make a paladin and get him to a higher level, but I got so bored that I couldn't get him any higher.

~Gare

[Sirmorte]

Ok, I've played Horde my whole "career" (if you will) and my alliance server paladin is level 11 (so boring I couldn't stand it). Only deaths I've heard of were fights between warriors (using mortal strike so limiting their healing capacities), druids (doing the fight in bear form, caster form and heal when pally shields and heals, and back to bear, etc), and legendary fights. I've seriously never talk to anyone other than a warrior or a druid who has LEGITAMATELY beaten a paladin. By legitamate I mean equal level both people starting with full life/mana (or energy).

The 2 dispells they get (which are apparently castable when feared or silenced) and that 6 second stun and those 4 life bars are kind of irritating.

So my question is, how does one go about beating a paladin? I wanted to try to make a paladin and get him to a higher level, but I got so bored that I couldn't get him any higher.

~Gare


Response: Palidans are better than some classes and worse than others. A properly played Shaman can almost always take on and beat a Palidan. Also a properly played frost mage and shadow priest can beat a Palidan too.

[grenadeshark]

Response: Palidans are better than some classes and worse than others. A properly played Shaman can almost always take on and beat a Palidan. Also a properly played frost mage and shadow priest can beat a Palidan too.

Um shadow priests and frost mages are able to beat them but im much more scared of a priest with improved mana burn.

How do you beat a pally? Take away his spellcasting abilities and mana.

The best idea when playing a pally is to always heal safely. Either while opponet is stunned or your shielded. Otherwise, you will get hit with many stop spell attacks that other classes have. Also heal early. Waiting too long is stupid and can ensure your demise.

Personally I have no problems with shamans ever. I can't recall losing once to a shaman 1 on 1. In fact today I managed to drop a 51 hunter and 40 shaman at same time after they attempted to gank em. But it could be the same problem as the paladin class. Good class with a lot of bad players.

Btw, if your loh is ready, it pretty much gaurantees you beating most all classes every time.

Also, if you are bored with a pally try to respec to retribution. It allows you crazy 2 and 3 hit kills some of the time which really gets your blood running. It adds some excitement and randomness to your basic I know im going to proc xtimes per minute with SoR.

[ZonnyWonny]

At level 60, I'm spec'd in Prot up to Holy shield (w/ imp seal of fury instead of devotion), 5/5 spiritual focus, and in Ret up to consecration w/ SoC. With just that basic skill SoC and no other talents like vengeance and such, I've hit for ~2100 dmg on a weapon crit + SoC crit. I've got a massivly slow 53dps(mayb 52, cant recall) 2h mace i use for SoC duty. Most hits are anywhere from 300-900 dmg range depending on if 1 crits, or just 1 regular hit. Just thought I'd demonstrate that pallys CAN do some major damage, but it is once in a blue moon... Double crits dont occur too often for me.

I would probably see more, but most of the time I'm running around with a 39dps 1.9speed 1h'er and shield using Seal of Fury acting as Off Tank and sometimes Main Tank. 2h weapons are frowned upon for that purpose.

Where was i going with this...? heh :)

[gazkw]

Hmm, i've seen pallies getting owned by hunters, mages, rogues, warlocks and especially priests. Pallies greatest weakness is their lack of range attacks, and mages/hunters who are really good can kite em successfully.

Pallies have cleanse and with that i stand a chance against mages. But when considering locks, they can easily own pallies. Suc's seduce, fear, insta-shadow bolt, DOTs and uncurable curses.

It's a myth to say a pally is unkillable. My greatest fear is the shadow priest. Basically, if a shadow priest doesn't make a mistake, a pally is as good as gone.

The paladin's real strength is to outlast. Outlast warriors and rogues until their hp is gone, and outlast mana users until their mana dries up. The worse is against priests with mana burn, can't do ****.

Can't help you feeling bored with a pally, not alot of depth in PvE combat.

[generalad]

Can't help you feeling bored with a pally, not alot of depth in PvE combat.

Try playing a pure defender ;)

Personally I have never been beaten by warriors.

My best kills were a 48 warrior and 49 rogue (4 times in a row, letting him attack me) both in fair fights (both at full health, they tried to gank me just because I'm level 43).
It seems no horde player knows how to handle a defenderdin.

Also mages are much easier to kill when you have an option to stun them at 20 yards range.
I do agree that a good shaman can pose some threat to you - haven't met one until now :)

Against hunter's and priests I haven't had much useful experience (being group-ganked does not supply much experience *g*)

[grenadeshark]

Try playing a pure defender ;)

Personally I have never been beaten by warriors.

My best kills were a 48 warrior and 49 rogue (4 times in a row, letting him attack me) both in fair fights (both at full health, they tried to gank me just because I'm level 43).
It seems no horde player knows how to handle a defenderdin.

Also mages are much easier to kill when you have an option to stun them at 20 yards range.
I do agree that a good shaman can pose some threat to you - haven't met one until now :)

Against hunter's and priests I haven't had much useful experience (being group-ganked does not supply much experience *g*)


Whatever build you go with, make sure to get SoC for PvP. It is very low mana usage and very high output on occassion. And, if your built right, you dont have to worry about those random procs as much as you'd think.

Currently, I am criting about twice every battle I go into.I have low agility so I'm not sure why this is happening but it is sustained with a 2.80 spd polearm.
Then I generally proc once or twice with SoC during a fight. Being ret specced, everytime I crit gives me that 15% extra holy and physical damage which makes up for the in between times where I am not critting or procing.

Also my crit rate and proc rate seem to go through the roof when I am fighting PvP vs PvE. Not sure why yet but I get double procs all the time. Yesterday I was fighting some horde mage named Kaen on Sargeras who was 1 lvl below me. First fight he attacked me when I had about 300 health and 100 mana because I had just finsihed off 4 mobs of equal lvl. He got me down to 100 health instantly and I threw up my shield cast SoC then loh. I then proceeded to 2 hit him. First hit proc'd and crit,stun, 2nd swing missed, 3rd swing dropped him. Upon respawn he saluted me and I let him get to full health and full mana. By the time this occurred I had my divine shield back...
He then saluted me and we went at it again. This time I proc'd with SoC again on first hit then was instantly sheeped. He started laughing so I divine shielded out of sheep, stunned him and hit him 2 more times with the 2nd hit procing and he was dead again.

So if you are bored with your pally try a ret build IMHO. I know some people say SoC procs for them once in a blue moon but it hits for me a lot PvP. I dont even have a real slow weapon.

[gazkw]

Try playing a pure defender ;)

Personally I have never been beaten by warriors.

My best kills were a 48 warrior and 49 rogue (4 times in a row, letting him attack me) both in fair fights (both at full health, they tried to gank me just because I'm level 43).
It seems no horde player knows how to handle a defenderdin.

Also mages are much easier to kill when you have an option to stun them at 20 yards range.
I do agree that a good shaman can pose some threat to you - haven't met one until now :)

Against hunter's and priests I haven't had much useful experience (being group-ganked does not supply much experience *g*)

When more MS warriors come into existence at much later lvls, you can get owned pretty quick. As for rogues, try a stunlock rogue, they are fun stuff, just stand there as they use their armor ripper and tear thru u. Not saying you cant beat em, but pallies might have it tough at 60 I'm afraid. Stun a mage at 20 yards so when you move up to their position to see them blink away? My, we totally own mages, rofl.

The question I ask is have you tried playing other classes? You might realise how boring a pally is or the lack of depth after. I was shocked to find how much more fun is it to play a warrior or a mage, or a priest. I have played a warrior to 45, a mage to 30, and my GF's priest, and really, pallies can be boring.

Let's see. Aggro, auto attack, seal, judge, seal, heal when low hp, if all goes hell, then divine shield or LoH. A little variety when HoJ, consecration or divine shield. Or SoC, and hope the hell it procs/crit.

[generalad]

When more MS warriors come into existence at much later lvls, you can get owned pretty quick.
Haven't met any :)


As for rogues, try a stunlock rogue, they are fun stuff, just stand there as they use their armor ripper and tear thru u.

Did I mention a 35% blocking chance with every block inflicting holy damage and every critical strike received awarding one extra attack and boosting block chance by another 30%?


Not saying you cant beat em, but pallies might have it tough at 60 I'm afraid.

Currently don't have time to level up to 60 :(


Stun a mage at 20 yards so when you move up to their position to see them blink away? My, we totally own mages, rofl.

When you reach him you still have your hammer to keep him at range for some secs. I didn't say mages are piece-of-cake, I just meant a Defenderin has 1 additional option. And most mages I met didn't count on that.


The question I ask is have you tried playing other classes? You might realise how boring a pally is or the lack of depth after. I was shocked to find how much more fun is it to play a warrior or a mage, or a priest. I have played a warrior to 45, a mage to 30, and my GF's priest, and really, pallies can be boring.

Yep. Level 60 Huntress, Level 38 Rogue (in beta), currently lvl 24 Rogue and lvl 16 Priest.


Let's see. Aggro, auto attack, seal, judge, seal, heal when low hp, if all goes hell, then divine shield or LoH. A little variety when HoJ, consecration or divine shield. Or SoC, and hope the hell it procs/crit.
Err right - which class really has more skills to use in every-day-situations?

@grenadeshark: As I have skilled all talents I need from protection I will now focus on Retribution to get Seal of Command. This could prove quite some fun combined with improved Seal of Justice :)

[gazkw]

Erm, stunlock rogue... he just stuns and stuns and... stuns.. didnt think you can attack or cast while being... stunned. :P

[grenadeshark]

Haven't met any :)

@grenadeshark: As I have skilled all talents I need from protection I will now focus on Retribution to get Seal of Command. This could prove quite some fun combined with improved Seal of Justice :)

Btw, Improved Seal of Justice is just a waste unless u are getting it to get repentance. Even then, its still a waste. Remember, mobs and human players alike become immune after 3 stuns.

[Celton]

Guys, this is supposed to be a thread about how to beat Paladins, not how to win with them...

I think the reason the people above are giving tips on how to win with a Pally is because it's very hard to. Before level 40 Paladins are pretty good, especially with that awesome quest hammer you get around level 20. But at 60 Paladins have many weaknesses, no ranged attack, no slowing skill except a 6 second stun, no controllable damage output, no speed boosts. It's nearly impossible to catch/kill anything. In order to win in PVP a Paladin really has to have engineering and other trinkets and items that will counter the weaknesses with the class and you have to know every other classes skills/abilities and how to counter them. ie, to win with a Pally (as is probably true with any class) you have to be really good.

So to sum it up, in order to beat a Paladin, get to level 60 (unless the Paladin is really good).

[generalad]

Btw, Improved Seal of Justice is just a waste unless u are getting it to get repentance. Even then, its still a waste. Remember, mobs and human players alike become immune after 3 stuns.

Not permanently afaik. Does anyone know how it works exactly?

[grenadeshark]

Not permanently afaik. Does anyone know how it works exactly?

Yes. You have to wait 15-25 seconds to use it again. Thats it. It will start working again after 15-25 seconds. So just cast another seal for the moment and go back.

[nutsindeed]

Guys, this is supposed to be a thread about how to beat Paladins, not how to win with them...

I think the reason the people above are giving tips on how to win with a Pally is because it's very hard to. Before level 40 Paladins are pretty good, especially with that awesome quest hammer you get around level 20. But at 60 Paladins have many weaknesses, no ranged attack, no slowing skill except a 6 second stun, no controllable damage output, no speed boosts. It's nearly impossible to catch/kill anything. In order to win in PVP a Paladin really has to have engineering and other trinkets and items that will counter the weaknesses with the class and you have to know every other classes skills/abilities and how to counter them. ie, to win with a Pally (as is probably true with any class) you have to be really good.

So to sum it up, in order to beat a Paladin, get to level 60 (unless the Paladin is really good).

Not to belabor a point already made -- pallies at lvl 60 are rather easy to beat if you know how to respond to their casts and strengths. Many classes have attacks that halt our casting -- rogues especially, with more stuns than i can count. A protection build would likely be pretty effective against rogues, but that's a lot of talent points to put towards fighting a particular class. Note: please no flames that this build has other purposes, i realize that.

Pallies are tremendously resilient, but lack DPS power to be a huge threat in PVP. Someone mentioned 2000dmg hits -- ummm, OK, but those are extremely rare strung together (as you yourself pointed out). We're pretty weak overall, and have to rely on dispells and heals to outlast, and have no ranged. That leaves for numerous opportunities for other classes. Pallies end-game aren't as overwhelming as people think them to perhaps be -- this is maybe because the class is relatively simple to play and the others have a steeper learning curve...

[RedLancerX]

the one and only way to kill a pally is mana drain, drain away all the pally mana and we cant do ****. If we do not have any mana we cant heal, cast seal, protect ourselves, cast holy shield etc etc.... so thats is the ONLY way to kill a pally that i know of.

Some pally might say pally have seal of wisdom, yes i know. If the pally adds holy tree there MIGHT be a chance the pally can win, if the pally is able to fight properly and smartly.

[gazkw]

Well, pallies actually have one good heal (2 if you are fighting a non-magic user). All else, the other party will interrupt any heal.

Or if you time your stuns well, 3 heals max, but stuns dun work on mages. So doesnt quite matter how much mana you got against mages, warriors, rogues and locks, they will simply interrupt your heals if you try to do it unshielded.

[grenadeshark]

Well, pallies actually have one good heal (2 if you are fighting a non-magic user). All else, the other party will interrupt any heal.

Or if you time your stuns well, 3 heals max, but stuns dun work on mages. So doesnt quite matter how much mana you got against mages, warriors, rogues and locks, they will simply interrupt your heals if you try to do it unshielded.

Stuns work on mages. You just can't keep them in place. Stun a mage then instantly heal. You will finish your heal by the time he blinks and has time to do anything else.

[generalad]

Erm, stunlock rogue... he just stuns and stuns and... stuns.. didnt think you can attack or cast while being... stunned. :P

Hmm haven't met a rogue who did not leave me time to interrupt the lock with the hammer. How long can such a rogue seriously keep you locked down?

[garebear2571]

rogues especially, with more stuns than i can count.
Hmm haven't met a rogue who did not leave me time to interrupt the lock with the hammer. How long can such a rogue seriously keep you locked down?

Well, they only have two STUNS which are kidney shot and cheap shot (which is appropriately titled :-P).

If a rogue wants to keep you from casting ... you don't really have much choice but to let him keep you from casting (namely from 2 stuns, 2 disorientation spells, and kick. Oh and that dastardly little preparation let's him get a couple more stuns and disorents and another kick in there as well as double vanish and such) However shields and LOH will be able to stop that because for a rogue to get maximum effeciency out of any anti-casting lock, they would have to time it perfectly so that they hit the next stun/disorient/kick at the right second so you go from 1 to another without overlap. That is the key right there, watch the stun timer (get a UI mod that allows you to see exact second under each buff/debuff so you can know exactly when it's going to run out) and start mashing the shield key.

However, if the rogue is a ganker rogue and is subtlety specced with all their skills up ... no one really stands a chance against them. However rogues that use it effectively are few and far between.

Although if they're a dagger rogue (like most subtlety rogues are), I hear a strong way to stomp them is to be a "thornadin" (was reading about this on official forums ... don't know how well it works). You can apparently get over 24 dmg return each hit. All you would need to do is stay alive long enough, which shouldn't be TOO tough with high armor rating, shield and heals, etc.

Rogues are a ganking class. They are king of the 1v1 gank. However, a "gank specced" rogue sucks in large scale PvP. So if a rogue really knows what they're doing, don't try to fight them, just turn and "high tail" it out of there (unless you've learned a way to defeat them).

~Gare

[Tahlia]

All the skills that proc when you take a crit hit are awesome vs rogues. An extra attack and an extra 30% blocking is great when combined with holy shield. Makes life pretty tough for them. Thats just rogues though

[Duuke]

I've got a lvl 36 paladin, but got bored playing with it, especially after reading all the stories about it only becoming more boring after 40.
Right now I got a 44 horde hunter, and I dare to say that paladins are my easiest opponents in pvp.
I use my drain mana sting to get him low on mana asap. The key to beating a paladin is keeping him at range, so I use concussive shot, freezing trap, wing clip and counterattack, scatter shot. Each one of these will give me enough time to gather enough range and shoot a few times. combines with aspect of the cheetah, which makes me run 30% faster, there are fights in which I don't take any damage at all.
Now this also has to do with the fact that most paladins arent really good players, but even against a good paladin, a hunter should be able to keep him at range.

[Hybrid]

Ways to kill a Paladin:
If you are a rogue: stunlock
Otherwise: kite

Kiting Paladins is pure evil because unless they have 31 pts in Holy they don't have any ranged attack, and even if they do it only does about 200-300 damage for a lot of mana. A hunter five levels below a Paladin can still kite them. Oh yes, and mana drain decreases their life expectancy more than a DOT.

[generalad]

I've got a lvl 36 paladin, but got bored playing with it, especially after reading all the stories about it only becoming more boring after 40.
Right now I got a 44 horde hunter, and I dare to say that paladins are my easiest opponents in pvp.
I use my drain mana sting to get him low on mana asap. The key to beating a paladin is keeping him at range, so I use concussive shot, freezing trap, wing clip and counterattack, scatter shot. Each one of these will give me enough time to gather enough range and shoot a few times. combines with aspect of the cheetah, which makes me run 30% faster, there are fights in which I don't take any damage at all.
Now this also has to do with the fact that most paladins arent really good players, but even against a good paladin, a hunter should be able to keep him at range.

A good paladin will have a macro to clean himself of your conc shot, wing clip and viper sting. If he doesn't he obviously is pretty dead meat ;)
Of course your freezing trap isn't too much of a problem either -> Blessing of Freedom.

Plus add in Repentance and you will have a hard time :whistle:

But yep, you're right that most paladins aren't good players.

[osioniusx]

Hmm, i've seen pallies getting owned by hunters, mages, rogues, warlocks and especially priests. Pallies greatest weakness is their lack of range attacks, and mages/hunters who are really good can kite em successfully.

Pallies have cleanse and with that i stand a chance against mages. But when considering locks, they can easily own pallies. Suc's seduce, fear, insta-shadow bolt, DOTs and uncurable curses.

It's a myth to say a pally is unkillable. My greatest fear is the shadow priest. Basically, if a shadow priest doesn't make a mistake, a pally is as good as gone.

The paladin's real strength is to outlast. Outlast warriors and rogues until their hp is gone, and outlast mana users until their mana dries up. The worse is against priests with mana burn, can't do ****.

Can't help you feeling bored with a pally, not alot of depth in PvE combat.

Pallies have two long range attacks: retribution and Holy Shock. The majority of their other range attacks are only ten yards. But they are ten yards: judgement of command and righteousness, hammer of justice.

[osioniusx]

Ways to kill a Paladin:
If you are a rogue: stunlock
Otherwise: kite

Kiting Paladins is pure evil because unless they have 31 pts in Holy they don't have any ranged attack, and even if they do it only does about 200-300 damage for a lot of mana. A hunter five levels below a Paladin can still kite them. Oh yes, and mana drain decreases their life expectancy more than a DOT.

31 points in Holy give Holy Shock which is guaranteed crit every two minutes with divine favor post 1.11. That damage is Holy and there are no resistances against.

It has a 30 second cooldown, but is relatively high mana.

Most pvp pallies with have an eye for an eye which returns 30% of a crit attack cast back to the caster. Any crit cast attack... as long as it was not greater then half their health bar.

Repentance is also 30 yard.

But, Pallies are generally weak against casters.

[osioniusx]

Well, they only have two STUNS which are kidney shot and cheap shot (which is appropriately titled :-P).

If a rogue wants to keep you from casting ... you don't really have much choice but to let him keep you from casting (namely from 2 stuns, 2 disorientation spells, and kick. Oh and that dastardly little preparation let's him get a couple more stuns and disorents and another kick in there as well as double vanish and such) However shields and LOH will be able to stop that because for a rogue to get maximum effeciency out of any anti-casting lock, they would have to time it perfectly so that they hit the next stun/disorient/kick at the right second so you go from 1 to another without overlap. That is the key right there, watch the stun timer (get a UI mod that allows you to see exact second under each buff/debuff so you can know exactly when it's going to run out) and start mashing the shield key.

However, if the rogue is a ganker rogue and is subtlety specced with all their skills up ... no one really stands a chance against them. However rogues that use it effectively are few and far between.

Although if they're a dagger rogue (like most subtlety rogues are), I hear a strong way to stomp them is to be a "thornadin" (was reading about this on official forums ... don't know how well it works). You can apparently get over 24 dmg return each hit. All you would need to do is stay alive long enough, which shouldn't be TOO tough with high armor rating, shield and heals, etc.

Rogues are a ganking class. They are king of the 1v1 gank. However, a "gank specced" rogue sucks in large scale PvP. So if a rogue really knows what they're doing, don't try to fight them, just turn and "high tail" it out of there (unless you've learned a way to defeat them).

~Gare

Uh, Gouge, what is that?

If you are a Pally, nearly any spec, and running from a rogue, please stop playing your class.

[Remsaa]

I love my Pali, wouldn't give it up for anything.

But thats just me.

I am 54 and currently 31 ret 14 holy (the next 6 points are all going holy) and SoC is my bread and butter.
My weapon currently Sul 'Thraze the Lasher with Crusader. With Crusader, Vengeance, Vindication, Sul Thraze and SoC all proccing on chance to swing I am very pleased. And even at level 52 and 53 i have critted the JoC for over 800 and HoW for over 1k. Thats pretty decent for my level!

Range is somewhat of an issue, everyone hates getting kited, but thats the reason why I have engineering. I try to keep several Iron Grenades handy along with a Net O Matic.

[Lalangamena]

I would like to remind ( again) that this post is:

"how to kill these annoying buggers"
and not:
"how sad pallys dont have hunters range, rogues DPS, shammys speed and warlock dots"....

[Nomaxu]

In my personal experience, which is one of duels since I am a lvl 60 alliance priest, a priest can pretty easily win a pally with mana burn and - if you are a shadow priest - a silence at the right time.

We often do tournaments in my guild (and practice for that) and I would say that I won against pallys about 90% of the time.

[Diamondlights]

Yep, dispel, dispel, dispel, mana burn, silence - seems to make them feel pretty bad - bubble-hearth, etc

[Lalangamena]

it seems like silence does not prevent from palladin to bubble,
they do it even silenced.

and manaburn just burning my mana, and not his....

I just try to run around spamming swp:1, when i stop seeing the IMMUNE floating above their heads, i go fear,VE, DevPl , SW:P,
and collect the HK, unless he has a buddy around....

if there is something more annoying than four 60 level pallys in tier 2 gear defending tower in AV.... i dont know what is it.

[oramac]

at 53 right now, the only class i cant beat is a shadow priest. if a rogue is good and gets the jump on me, he can usually win too. mainly because you cant do anything while stunned.

a pallies main weakness IMO is a total lack of ranged abilities. HoW is ranged, but only works if the target is below 30% health or so. and obviously mana is our biggest crutch. without that we are as good as dead.

[Xafour]

Me being a warlock have to say I never have trouble with pallies. However the biggest mistake you can make against them is throwing everything you got at them at the beginning. (Dots, shadowbolt, death coil, shadowburn) Only to see him pop up that immune bubble and heal up to full health leaving you OOM. :sad:

(I did that once and I've spend the next 5 minutes trying to lifetap/bandage back up to mana but eventually after hitting me for 5 minutes the pally finally got me.)

What I usually do is (assuming I have full mana) opening the fight with immolate, corruption and Curse of Agony. ((They can dispell immolate and corruption although I rarely see pallies do that :shocked: )) Let succubus hit em and fear em. When there about half HP they do that bubble and heal back up to full hp. After that I just repeat the above exept this time when there low HP again I throw in death coil and shadowburn and there death. :azn:

And when it comes to outlasting I as a Soul Link Warlock far outlast paladins considering there dmg is negligable then.

[Scrapples]

As a 60hunter I have no trouble with palley's my lvl. Mainly I just kite them and keep em out of range of melee. And just try to manage my Mana better than they do. I hate fighting them, since our fights are lonnng 1v1 kiting, dmg, kiting, dmg, once they pop I open up and most often they perish.

[Idol]

If your a rogue, and it's 1 vs 1, stunlock is pretty much an IWIN button. As long as you do it right, and leave no gaps, the poor Pally will have no chance.

[osioniusx]

Most of these posts are from last year, I don't even think they counted back then.

There are three major categories of Paladins, all with different strengths and weaknesses.

As for being mana less -- for SoC wielding Paladins with high Str, high AGI, good two handers, vengeance, and the like, this is not much of a problem.

Repentance is our only value add for dealing with kiters and it is on a one minute cooldown. We are largely unsnareable, so this is an essential skill -- though we can get HS or improved HoJ with an additional PVP set improvement.

Divine Shield removes everything and slows our attack. It alone protects us from magic attack -- the other bubble only from non-magic attacks.

Cleanse and Blessing of Protection are why we are unsnareable. We can also remove many DoT's -- if not feared... using mana cheap cleanse.

If you have killed one Paladin or two who were fighting mobs in world PVP and they were several levels lower then you -- you know you have never fought a Paladin. That said, many Paladins are spec'd to do very little damage but have extreme survivability.

Even Retribution Paladins have very good survivability, however.

Any half decent or experienced Paladin will mostly have problems with Warlocks and Shadow Priests and Mages. Hunters, no. Rogues, warriors, no. It is the magic classes which cause us the most problems - around the board - and this is partly due to fear and partly due to having better healing interrupt abilities.

Repentance is a big tool here, Repentance is a 31 point talent, however, and one must give up instant heal, forced critical heals, mana free (essentially) heals, ranged attack which can be forced crit every 2 minutes, and reckoning -- for instance.

All of this said, these are still generalities, and who the player is does matter very greatly.

[osioniusx]

it seems like silence does not prevent from palladin to bubble,
they do it even silenced.

and manaburn just burning my mana, and not his....

I just try to run around spamming swp:1, when i stop seeing the IMMUNE floating above their heads, i go fear,VE, DevPl , SW:P,
and collect the HK, unless he has a buddy around....

if there is something more annoying than four 60 level pallys in tier 2 gear defending tower in AV.... i dont know what is it.

Yeah, four shamans.

Well, no, but it is about equal.

[osioniusx]

As a 60hunter I have no trouble with palley's my lvl. Mainly I just kite them and keep em out of range of melee. And just try to manage my Mana better than they do. I hate fighting them, since our fights are lonnng 1v1 kiting, dmg, kiting, dmg, once they pop I open up and most often they perish.

Hunters are no problems for Paladins.

It is warlocks and shadow priests that are our bane.

We can not be slowed, we can not be snared - except with ice trap. We have two bubbles -- only one works against magic. This means melee classes have little chance. As for being out of mana... that is not so much a problem, if the Paladin has high agility and strength.

Our core abilities cost very little mana with the exception of our seals and judgements. All we need to do is get up one seal, however, to add substantial DPS. Holy Shock costs quite a bit of mana, but repentance does not.

The only advantage hunters have here is the possibility of speed. However, even that is very weak, we have two ranged attacks. Mostly repentance is needed, however to deal with kiters.

[osioniusx]

Me being a warlock have to say I never have trouble with pallies. However the biggest mistake you can make against them is throwing everything you got at them at the beginning. (Dots, shadowbolt, death coil, shadowburn) Only to see him pop up that immune bubble and heal up to full health leaving you OOM. :sad:

(I did that once and I've spend the next 5 minutes trying to lifetap/bandage back up to mana but eventually after hitting me for 5 minutes the pally finally got me.)

What I usually do is (assuming I have full mana) opening the fight with immolate, corruption and Curse of Agony. ((They can dispell immolate and corruption although I rarely see pallies do that :shocked: )) Let succubus hit em and fear em. When there about half HP they do that bubble and heal back up to full hp. After that I just repeat the above exept this time when there low HP again I throw in death coil and shadowburn and there death. :azn:

And when it comes to outlasting I as a Soul Link Warlock far outlast paladins considering there dmg is negligable then.

Paladins that do not remove Warlock's DoT's are not experienced Paladins. That said, we can do nothing while feared. Cleanse is one of my most used skills in PVP.

If our divine shield is on cooldown warlocks are our bane.

We can counter this by having repentance, hammer of justice, being careful with our DS, and primarily... by having high shadow resistance.

Paladins do have incredible survivability, I have zero complaints there.

Being even more specific: fear is our bane.

Putting on high shadow resistance on top of our 60 innate shadow resistance aura, getting 10% against fear in Holy, eye for an eye, carefully timing DS, knowing when to use excorcism against the pets... using cleanse... are among some of our strengths, aside from repetance and HoJ, and proper timing of everything.

[Scrapples]

I must be fighting inexp Pally's. I seem to have no trouble with ya 1v1.

[Zaratustra]

the biggest problem i have with pallis (as a warlock) is losing my nerfs when they bubble run. i killed loads of pallis, and loads of them ran away in buble. on contested, even being my level and full health/mana they just bubble and run....
never played palli and probably never will, but i think its just the players, not the class :))

[Longpot]

I agree with Zara - I hate it when Pally's bubble and run.

If they do, I make it my personal vendetta to run them down and reapply CoA and Corruption (both can be applied while running) to finish them off.

Incidentally what's the CD on the bubble?

[Theflying_scotsman]

Honestly after playing a pala to 60 there is nothing more annoying than a)mana drain and b) being kited.

As has been previously mentioned if we have no mana we become a severely nerfed warrior and if we are kited then there isn't much we can do other than BoF and try and get some stuns in. However, with a tenuous 12 sec stunlock (with 31 point retri) we do have some flexibility in how we play.

but really, at lvl 60 rogues, well played shamans, mages and hunters all give us a hard time in PvP purely because we cant get enough hits and spells in ot give us an edge.

my 2$ ciao.

p.S we have 2 bubbles. 10 sec and 12 sec that can be used at 60. cool down on each is 5 min but we cant use them for 60sec after we have burned one. Oh, and only one is immune to all.

[Underling]

we only have 2 bubbles. Only 10 sec and 12 sec... Oh, and only one is immune to all.

I really loved that 'only'

And poor buggers don't even have fire coming out of their arses! And a bunch of tier2 Horde need to stand and wait for a lil lvl 55 pally Mr Arrogant to get on with his stupid bubble and die by the flag

[souleagle]

the ONLY class i cant beat on a regular basis is a lock, with al they're DoT and corruption being undispellable, and that god damn seduction. Rogues are a laugh, especially when i can let them take me down to 35% health and then one hit reck bomb them, and warriors arent any troulbe either. Personally, if u "legitimately" beat a paladin of equal level and gear, he either didnt know what he was doing, had cooldowns to deal with, or was terribly specced(balanced between all 3 specs :P)

[farafel]

Ok i am new here and i played a paladin pvp with a build 0/19/32 and let me tell you few things

1. Finding a good player (before some patch) on my server (Scarshield Legion) on horde side that could pvp was hard i was a pally and when they saw me on lets say AV they started to run... After the patch life as a pally became more hard but it depends realy on what skill are the player you want to kick... I could take 2 warriors (poor players) at the same time and still beat the hell out of them and sometimes i found a very good player and one kicked me...
2. Good pvp isnt about what class you play its about how good can you play it...
3. And the last point 'cooldowns' fight me when i dont have any cooldown i will get your ass powned doesnt matter what class you play cose i beat them all (althou Shadow Priest makes you go down fast), get me when i have cooldowns on my shields and on my Lay On Hands and i am a easy HK :D

Now some paladins will say something like 'your build is stupid' and i know that they prefer the 70% from Spiritual Focus but in pvp its all about speed for me the faster you kill the sooner you can heal yourself and thats the point realy... 35sec cooldown on hammer realy saves life you know and with 2min less cooldown on BoP is good but i prefer that longer BoF it means that a Mage, Hunter, Rogue cant slow you down and you can hit them faster...

I had a poor equip only some blues from honor (i only did to 7rank) and some drops from ZG, MC, Onyxia nothing special and i still in pvp made a 19% crit chance and a reasnoble dmg (with crits was 1000 - 1200)...

[thdrew]

:afro: I play an UD lock and have little to no trouble with pallys. Now with the new talents in the Dest tree I have even less trouble, corruption, fear, immol, conflag, shadowfury, SB and DC if i need to FTW. You have to stop them from tryin to bubble if they can t cast they cant heal or bubble. Which makes them useless. IMO:thumbsup:

[Zaratustra]

some notes on pallis again:
1. they got really imba. and by imba i mean a huge wtfomglolIMBA! now, grinding the honor in bgs i see lots of pallas around (btw, sometimes i think, that at least 70% of all allis are pallas, and 29% are nelf rogues). anyway, saw several times already 3 pallas defending the nod against a massive assault, killing that assauls, and staying there. they bubbl, heal, then fight, then again bubble heal...OMG! how the F can they do the freaking bubble?
2. they got stealth(!). thats really out of the line! imam ok woth rogues, having stealth. ok, thats the job of the class to be invisibve. but rogues, havibng stealth, dont have that much Hp, dont have freaking bubble and cannot heal!
3. stun. dunno know if loladins got the stun from patch or they had it before (tho i never noticed pallas having stun before the patch, with an unstoppable force exception). the only thing they really needed to get even more undieable is stun. combined with unstoppabel force its a real pain in the ass!
i am a well geared ud lock, but i dont risk to go 1vs1 against pallas. the simply nerv me so bad, i am ready to eat my mouse!
conclusion: bliz, pls, bring back the good old bubble-heart loladins and take away those monsters!

[Drpep]

On my mage, the only thing that bothers me about pallies, I really dont think they should be able to cast damage spells, stun or malee while imune.

[holycheese]

funny how theres a how to kill paladins thread 5 pages long , just shows how buffed they are nowadays ....( this is not a nerf thread)

In my experience beating paladins comes down to egos, I always cluck cluck like a chicken when they bubble replenish seals and so forth (im a shaman) what I find is they make mistakes and start to use there mana and exhaust it pretty quickly and then its 9 times out of 10 dead paladin...


I find as a rule paladins have huge egos and think there invincible, but of course that is my experience. I think its partly down to there gameplay, I can attack 6 horde and then bubble and run attitude no other class can do this, hence the huge ego's.


cheese

[Drpep]

Ok, how i kill pallies. Mage level 60 arcane fire. POM am tinket, pyro, blast. silence (if i am lucky before bubble.) Most pallies i fight now use their sheild as an openier instead of a defense. If thats the case i blink out of the stun and hope i can kite them out of the sheild, then i have about 30 sec to kill them before they resheild and full heal. Really tricky business. If i was still an ice mage i would just iceblock during the first sheild and then freeze him, sheep him and then kite him after.

Key to all this is distance. If he gets in close with my blink down i am dead mage meat.

[Underling]

Fire mage. I all-out burn the pally and if I fail to crit him to death, I try and run away. If I fail to run away, I am dead

[Underling]

some notes on pallis again:
1. they got really imba. and by imba i mean a huge wtfomglolIMBA! now, grinding the honor in bgs i see lots of pallas around (btw, sometimes i think, that at least 70% of all allis are pallas, and 29% are nelf rogues). anyway, saw several times already 3 pallas defending the nod against a massive assault, killing that assauls, and staying there. they bubbl, heal, then fight, then again bubble heal...OMG! how the F can they do the freaking bubble?
2. they got stealth(!). thats really out of the line! imam ok woth rogues, having stealth. ok, thats the job of the class to be invisibve. but rogues, havibng stealth, dont have that much Hp, dont have freaking bubble and cannot heal!
3. stun. dunno know if loladins got the stun from patch or they had it before (tho i never noticed pallas having stun before the patch, with an unstoppable force exception). the only thing they really needed to get even more undieable is stun. combined with unstoppabel force its a real pain in the ass!
i am a well geared ud lock, but i dont risk to go 1vs1 against pallas. the simply nerv me so bad, i am ready to eat my mouse!
conclusion: bliz, pls, bring back the good old bubble-heart loladins and take away those monsters!


I would like to add that that damage thing they do to you when you hit (kill?) them is just imba, come on. I nuke a paladin to death and get hit for 1K damage!

On my mage, the only thing that bothers me about pallies, I really dont think they should be able to cast damage spells, stun or malee while imune.

I totally agree

[Clavina]

Ok, I've played Horde my whole "career" (if you will) and my alliance server paladin is level 11 (so boring I couldn't stand it). Only deaths I've heard of were fights between warriors (using mortal strike so limiting their healing capacities), druids (doing the fight in bear form, caster form and heal when pally shields and heals, and back to bear, etc), and legendary fights. I've seriously never talk to anyone other than a warrior or a druid who has LEGITAMATELY beaten a paladin. By legitamate I mean equal level both people starting with full life/mana (or energy).

The 2 dispells they get (which are apparently castable when feared or silenced) and that 6 second stun and those 4 life bars are kind of irritating.

So my question is, how does one go about beating a paladin? I wanted to try to make a paladin and get him to a higher level, but I got so bored that I couldn't get him any higher.

~Gare

Sorry i havent read any of the thread apart from this post so excuse me if this has been said before but mana burn > palladin.

My greatest solo killing moment so far was in AV when I was fighting a hunter with my shadow priest 1v1, halfway through a pally arrived. So i finished killing the hunter then killed the palladin, then the alterac ram that i pulled accidently before getting narrowly beaten by the same hunter who had respawned and hunted me down.

Although by you're definition this wasn't a legitimate fight as i was about 3/4 health and 1/2 mana when i got to the palla :azn:

It made me feel quite good about myself :grin: