Just some calculations

[Valas Azuviir]

Due to what was discussed in a what class has the most HP thread, I've started tinkering around with people's character overviews. Substracting gear bonusses to try and get at their base stats at level 60.

In doing so, I seem to have stumbled across the current formula to calculate HP and MP for three classes. If someone else already posted this, then I do apologize for the overlap. Haven't seen anything similar to this before.

I'm still working on the other classes, just thought I'd share what I've found thus far. Race doesn't seem to effect the formula, though I've got to admit, that I haven't tried to figure out how certain of the racial perks* seem to influence the numbers.

*: Like the Tauren Health bonus, Gnomish Int bonus. Luckily, the Human Spi bonus doesn't have any effects on the formula.

Base stats at 60
Human Paladins
Str 105
Agi 72
Sta 121
Int 70
Spi 79
HP 1520 (Base HP + Difference in Sta between level 1 and 60 times 10 + 59 times 8) (58+99x10+59x8)
MP 1302 (Base Mana + Difference in Int between level 1 and 60 times 15 + 59 times 8) (80+50x15+59x8)

------------------------------
Human Warriors
Str 120
Agi 80
Sta 133
Int 30
Spi 47
HP 1701 (Base HP + Difference in Sta between level 1 and 60 times 10 + 59 times 9) (60+111x10+59x9)

------------------------------

Human Warlocks
Str 45
Agi 50
Sta 81
Int 110
Spi 121
HP 948 (Base HP + Difference in Sta between level 1 and 60 times 10 + 59 times 5) (53+60x10+59X5)*
MP 3710 (140+88x15+2250)**

*: Note these numbers are without Demonic Embrace having been selected. Not easy finding Locks without it.

**: The Warlocks Mana formula doesn't seem to make any sense. As opposed to a fixed rate with which to multiply 59, as seen with the paladin MP formula or even the HP formula's for all three the classes I've done so far. The Warlock Mana formula seems to be additive. What's added between level 1 and 2 are 8 MP, between level 2 and 3, it's 9 MP, between level 3 and 4, it's 10 MP and so on. Note this is with the standard 15 MP increase, due to int improvement taken into consideration. Hence the mention of 2250 at the end.

If someone else wants to look at the -Lock Mana values, then I'd be grateful, because this just plum doesn't make sense. Why such a cumbersome set up??

I'll try and do the other classes next. Human Rogue is next on my list, then Human Mage and then Human Priest. Leaving me with Druid (going to be NE), Shaman (either Orc or Troll) and Hunter (can be NE, Orc or Troll).

That should allow me to find the formula for each class. Making it a little easier to then get to the base stats for each class race combo at 60.

[Valas Azuviir]

Talk about your regular nightmare.. Numbers on the Priest and Mages are nowhere near as solid as the numbers I've managed to present before. Item enchantments like +7 Int etc seem to have been used galore, and while they show up on the char numbers of the profiles I've been checking, there is of course no mention of them, while checking the item numbers themselves. So I came up with some very strange readings. What I've got now is an approximation. If someone is willing to check them with their own level 60 chars, then thanks. :)

Oh and I made a mistake in the mana calc. of the Warlock, it should be 3643 MP in total. Had added one too many levels in the additive stage

Human Rogues
Str 80
Agi 137
Sta 91
Int 35
Spi 52
HP 1168 (Base HP + Difference in Sta between level 1 and 60 times 10 + 59 times 7.) (55+70x10+59x7)

------------------------------
Human Mages
Str 30
Agi 35
Sta 61
Int 134
Spi 120
HP 757 (Base HP + Difference in Sta between level 1 and 60 times 10 + 59 times 5) (52+41x10+59x5)
MP 4131 (2301+111x15+165) It's additive again. Starting point 10.**

--------------------------------
Human Priest
Str 35
Agi 40
Sta 66
Int 120
Spi 131
HP 807 (Base HP + Difference in Sta between level 1 and 60 times 10 + 59 times 5) (52+46x10+59x5)
MP 3835 (2220+97x15+160) additive again. Starting Point 9.**

**: Well, there seemed to have been some reason to the Warlock mana calc. madness, because the exact same thing occurs with both the Priest and Mage as well. It's again an additive formula with Priests gaining 9 MP at level 2, 10 MP at level 3 etc. Whereas the Mages gain 10 MP at level 2, 11 MP at level 3 etc.

All in all, it didn't help that a lot of folks had greens with variable stats on them either. Quite prevalent with both Mages and Priests, rather surprising, considering the Warlocks had no such issue.

[TheJarulf]

I think you can simplify those formulas a lot. One can note a few things. Each Sta point always give 10 HP and each Int point always give 15 mana. If we keep in mind that the "base" stat is typically arround 20 (plus class bonuses) we can make the formulas into something like below. This makes it easy to see the contribution of level and stat. L signifies the char level.

HP
Warrior: 31 + L*9 + (Sta-20)*10
Paladin: 30 + L*8 + (Sta-20)*10
Rogue: 39 + L*7 + (Sta-20)*10
Warlock: 38 + L*5 + (Sta-20)*10
Priest: 47 + L*5 + (Sta-20)*10
Mage: 47 + L*5 + (Sta-20)*10

Mana
Paladin: 72+ L*8 + (Int-20)*15
Warlock: 103+ L*6 + X + (Int-20)*15
Priest: 85+ L*7 + X + (Int-20)*15
Mage: 111+ L*8 + X + (Int-20)*15


X here is sort of the same as your "additive" factor but here it is the sum of your levels. That is, for a level 1 it is 1, for a level 2 it is 1+2=3, for a level 3 it is 1+2+3=6 and so on up to a level 60 were it equals 1830. Perhaps there exists some easier way to express but I leave that for someone else to figure out.

Hopefully I did not goof and copy it the wrong way but there might be some typo in the above.

I have no idea if it works out for other races as well. Perhaps the constant at the start of formulas changes some with race, no idea. Similary for classes not listed, that is not present for humans, I have not checked since I don't have stats for level 1 and 60.

Hope this helps.

[Valas Azuviir]

Well, the HP formula looks a lot cleaner than mine and it does regulate the formula for the classes regardless of race, whereas mine had humans as the base mark. :)

Paladin mana formula also looks ok, it's the X one, where I'm not sure. But then I have that exact same issue with the whole additive formula to begin with. I really don't understand why Blizzard would go for such a cumbersome system. Sure it may supply high level characters with enough mana for them to operate, but still.. It's clunky.

I'm also not quite sure where you got the for example: L*6 bit from with regards to my own calculations, but maybe I'm being dense. Warlocks start from base 8 before stuff gets added.

I'll try and get the rest done as quickly as possible, it's going to be interesting to see how the other three classes behave themselves. I'm guessing that Hunters and Shaman will have a steady formula like the Paladin.. But the Druid is a bit of a wild card imo. Am also curious if anyone with level 60 characters, preferably human, can confirm the numbers we've managed to get together.

Thanks for helping. :happy34:

[TheJarulf]

Well, the HP formula looks a lot cleaner than mine and it does regulate the formula for the classes regardless of race, whereas mine had humans as the base mark. :)

Paladin mana formula also looks ok, it's the X one, where I'm not sure. But then I have that exact same issue with the whole additive formula to begin with. I really don't understand why Blizzard would go for such a cumbersome system. Sure it may supply high level characters with enough mana for them to operate, but still.. It's clunky.

I'm also not quite sure where you got the for example: L*6 bit from with regards to my own calculations, but maybe I'm being dense. Warlocks start from base 8 before stuff gets added.

I'll try and get the rest done as quickly as possible, it's going to be interesting to see how the other three classes behave themselves. I'm guessing that Hunters and Shaman will have a steady formula like the Paladin.. But the Druid is a bit of a wild card imo. Am also curious if anyone with level 60 characters, preferably human, can confirm the numbers we've managed to get together.

Thanks for helping. :happy34:


I really got the formulas mostly out of yours, just shuffeled them arround a bit. While you added for eaxmple only for each extra level after 1 (thus your 59*X) I instead used all 60 levels, it is really the same. One can for example in my formulas use (L-1) that is, for example 59 instead of 60 for a level 60 char). The only difference then is that the constant changes. Take for example the warriors HP formula. The following two are the same, the first one just looks simpler in my opinion:

HP
31 + L*9 + (Sta-20)*10
40 + (L-1)*9 + (Sta-20)*10


Similary, for the additive part. I noted you said one add (for the warlock) 8 going from level 1 to 2, right?, then 9 for 2 to 3. Well, lets "break out" the added 6 for each level since that is a constant, we thus have the L*6 added for each level and we have left adding 2 going from 1 to 2, 3 going from 2 to 3. Well, isn't that nice, we add the level for each level, that is my X!! Also, I made it so that the 1 (sort of going to from level 0 to 1) is in the X and not in the initial constant.

One could do the same for the Sta and Int if one wanted. Instead of substracting 20 from Sta, one can instead substract 200, however, I thought that made the formulas look ugly and it is less nice since it looks worse having the constant in the front then. Again the two belo are the same:

31 + L*9 + (Sta-20)*10
-169 + L*9 + Sta*10 or L*9 + Sta*10 - 169

I think the Shaman, Druid and so on should fit similar to the above, only differing in the value you multiply L with and in the constant at the front of the formula. The good thing is that one should probably be able to figure it out going with a char from level 1 to 2 (or for extra info to level 3 or 4 as well). The heavy casters probably have the X part in the mana while perhaps Shaman (it is the equivalency to Paladin, right?) might not. Note that I don't have the game so can't check.

[TheJarulf]

Mana
Paladin: 72+ L*8 + (Int-20)*15
Warlock: 103+ L*6 + X + (Int-20)*15
Priest: 85+ L*7 + X + (Int-20)*15
Mage: 111+ L*8 + X + (Int-20)*15


X here is sort of the same as your "additive" factor but here it is the sum of your levels. That is, for a level 1 it is 1, for a level 2 it is 1+2=3, for a level 3 it is 1+2+3=6 and so on up to a level 60 were it equals 1830. Perhaps there exists some easier way to express but I leave that for someone else to figure out.


By the way, the X part, should be possible to write as:

{L*(L+1)/2} or {L*L/2} + {L/2} or L*(L/2+1/2)

were {} means you should round down. Not sure if that makes it easier or not. The last alternative has no rounding issues though.

On the other hand, if you wish to combine it with the L*Z one get:

L(L/2 + 1/2 + Z)

were Z is the 6, 7 and 8 in the formulas above. No need to round anything although one SHOULD work with the 0.5 fraction(s) in the formula. That would mean we should have:

Paladin: 72 + L*8 + (Int-20)*15
Warlock: 103 + L*6 + (Int-20)*15 + L*(L/2 + 1/2)
Priest: 85 + L*7 + (Int-20)*15 + L*(L/2 + 1/2)
Mage: 111 + L*8 + (Int-20)*15 + L*(L/2 + 1/2)


This perhaps looks more complicated but at least is a formula instead of a sum. Just a few alternatives. I think I liked the first alternative better and then one simply explain what X means and/or makes a table for it.

I hope I did not goof on the roundings or anything. I know I made typoes in the excel sheet I used to check it all out so better comfirm with some characters. Ohh, and since the formulas works with any level, you don't need level 60 chars. Actually, it is better to use chars of other levels to confirm since the formulas were based on info ONLY from level 1 and 60, so we really can't be sure there is not something else going on inbetween.

[Asmiroth]

I'm not sure exactly what I did wrong but when I use the formulas listed above, both HP is WAY too low and mana is too high.


As a mage at 60 its listed as
47 + L*5 + (stamina-20)*10

which turns into 347 + (sta*20)*10, which if I had 250 stamina (which is a fair chunk) would give me 2300+347 = 2647. It's 3690 in-game.

mana is calculated as
111 + L*8 + (Int-20)*15 + L*(L/2 + 1/2)
111 + 60*8 + (int-20)*15 + 60*(60/2 + 1/2)
591 + 1830 + (int-20)*15
2421 + (int-20)*15
let's say you're at 250 int, that means
2421 + 230*15 = 5871
It's actually 4683 mana.

The base HP for a mage at 60 is 1190, not 347. Base mana is 933 as well.

At 60, the formula is basically 1190 + sta*10 and 933 + int*15 for mages. Warlocks are 1234+sta*10 and 1093+int*15. It might look like warlocks get more mana but since mages get more int as they level, mages end up above warlocks by about 200 at lvl 60. Rogues get 1343 base hp.


Obviously I don't understand your formulas as they don't match at all what I've seen in game.

[Valas Azuviir]

Please note that these calculations were done several patches ago.. Things may very well have changed, or I goofed with the data I collected..

Looked at several level 60s (about 20 of each class), subtracted as well as I could, their gear bonusses, then jotted down the numbers I got. Ran comparisons between the various characters and chose the numbers which came up most. Did the same for a couple of other levels, and tried to figure out what the difference was between the levels.

[Asmiroth]

I don't want to invalidate the work, simply add that there are some missteps along the way.

The problem stems mostly from the fact that statistics are non-linear. IE you gain 5STA from 1-20, 8 from 20-40, so you have 28 to gain over 20 levels. So the formula more than likely revolves around the square of your level, or some such number.

To be completely honest though, knowing how much HP a character has at level 33 doesn't interest me. It's knowing how to calculate my stats at 60 :)

Mage Calculator (http://rogue.worldofwar.net/files/mage.xls)

If you enter your gear into the fields, you should get a 99.9% accurate reading at 60.

STA*10 + 1190. How that 1190 comes into being is really what the question is.