Player vs. Warlock

[Thelorax]

I'm a level 31 Druid and I was sneaking around near Arathi when I saw a warlock 2 levels higher than me. I figure as long as I get the drop on him I should be able taking him out no problem. He didn't have a minion following him either.

Well he kicked my ass left and right, even with the sneak attack I got on him... I critted for about 225 or so but it was the one and only shot I got on him, otherwise I was frantically trying to keep myself healed while him and his Succubus, that just kinda appeared, took turns charming or fearing me and then he just nukes the crap out of me to end it while Succ is whipping me like a camel.

I never really gave much thought to Warlocks doing that well in pvp, but it looks like this guy really new what he was doing, and he effectively embarassed me (at least here at mid-game).

How do you all take on a warlock?

[Praxis]

Ah warlocks, one of the few classes that when mastered can wipe the floor with anyone.

Don't worry though, a true master is very rare sightning indeed, you shoulda took a screenshot! ;)

[QuaTrO]

[QUOTE=Thelorax]otherwise I was frantically trying to keep myself healed while him and his Succubus, that just kinda appeared, took turns charming or fearing me [QUOTE]
Ahhh, the joys of lesser invisibilty. Always throws a wrench in peoples plans when my succy pops out of nowhere.

[Saboteur]

Indeed, the Succubus has an invisibility ability. However, it is also possible that the Warlock in question was a Master Summoner (talent that allows a pet to be cast in 0,5 seconds).

[DrunkCajun]

Hehe...I love playing a warlock and getting jumped by someone when I'm flagged. The warlock has more tricks in his bag than any other class I've played, as evidenced by the fact that I use every single action bar slot available to me and still have to rearrange it depending on whether I'm instancing, grinding, or PvPing. :happy34:

Warlocks are far tougher cookies than one might think. People don't think they're being hurt by the DoT spells until they realize that 3 or 4 of them are adding up for 200 DPS, not to mention giving a good chunk of that life back to the warlock (drain tanking ftw). Combine that with a healthstone and your pet, and it's very hard to kill a well-played warlock. Just about the only class that I ever have trouble with are undead rogues, if they get the jump on me. If they don't get the jump on me though, I still do fairly well against them.

[Daishi]

I only PvP in WSG (on a PvE server you see), but as a Warlock I can tell you that there is one way to kill us. Get you and 6 mates and mug us! Mass bodies are a problem, especially as taunt from a VW doesn't work on players. That leave us fearing you all or using seduce to stop 1 of you at a time. Enough bodies to stop us casting spells and you might get somewhere (though you may lose 1 or 2).

If I find someone (approx my lvl) on thier own and we're both PvP than I can more or less win everytime. The Succi invis power makes them a great trump card as well. As an Undead Warlock I also never have the problem of having to fight Undead using WotF to stop me fearing them either.

If I'm able to pick off people on their own than the enemy will find it very hard to cope with me. If the enemy team works together though and can mug me in a group than there is little or nothing I can do to help out my team. Other than acting as a great deterent while the rest of my team deal some decent damage.

[toader]

Laugh out loud

[northernlights]

The best PVP'ers I know are a Warlock-Engineer and a Shadow Priest-Alchemist.

Using their professions properly both only lose when they make mistakes or are outnumbered.

[Phil]

I love my warlock but I haven't taken him to PvP yet because I have a warrior main. The warrior is a lot of fun and I have been actually working on a Fury build for the Dual Weild, hoping to kick some ass in BG at 40. If I feel pretty confident after a few lvl 40 Warsong Gulch runs with him, I will probably start again on my Lock. But what am I missing here? Both of the Test of Honor final tallies(US and EU) put warlocks towards the bottom of the list. Do people just not know proper strategies for playing them? Are there a significant amount less warlocks than other characters? What do the numbers mean?

Also, why enginneering instead of something else?

thanks
phil

[DrunkCajun]

For one thing, yes, there are significantly less warlocks than other classes. For another, they're a lot more complicated to play than most other classes.

So a good warlock player is a rare breed indeed.

[Cellar Door]

For one thing, yes, there are significantly less warlocks than other classes. For another, they're a lot more complicated to play than most other classes.

So a good warlock player is a rare breed indeed.

Just wait until Defrocked is 60. Then you'll see some mad Warlock playing.

[Can0mark]

For one thing, yes, there are significantly less warlocks than other classes. For another, they're a lot more complicated to play than most other classes.

So a good warlock player is a rare breed indeed.

My server has tons of warlocks and at least 75% of them just created a warlock for the free mount. So it is correct that a good warlock is a rare breed.

[Tollin]

Aye Warlocks that know what to do are hard to beat. I play on a PvE server and while riding to Uldaman a group of horde waiting to go into uldaman were dancing. One of them, my lvl an ORC warrior, decides to challanege me to a duel.

I dismount, summon Succy and accept. He only got three hits on me thanks to seduce and fear. His friends were laughing at him after the fight was done.


Nuff Said...

[MrMorden]

I'm a lvl 30 Warlock, and in WSG I rarely lose 1-on-1. If ganged up on I go down. but usually take one or more with me. Crowd control is definitely our PvP weakness.

The ability to throw 3 DOTs on somebody, then use Drain Life to simultaneously keep DPS and our own health up is tough to beat. I usually only die when my mana runs dry or I'm hopelessly outnumbered.

Even when outnumbering a Warlock, beware the AoE Hellfire. It will kill the Lock, but does some sick damage in the process.

[DrunkCajun]

I'm a lvl 30 Warlock, and in WSG I rarely lose 1-on-1. If ganged up on I go down. but usually take one or more with me. Crowd control is definitely our PvP weakness.

The ability to throw 3 DOTs on somebody, then use Drain Life to simultaneously keep DPS and our own health up is tough to beat. I usually only die when my mana runs dry or I'm hopelessly outnumbered.

Even when outnumbering a Warlock, beware the AoE Hellfire. It will kill the Lock, but does some sick damage in the process.

You should be able to handle at least two simultaneous enemies in PvP, so long as they don't both get the jump on you and stun-lock you.

Seduce the first, fear the second. Don't DoT them. Curse of Shadow the seduced one, then hit him with Shadow Bolt. Seduce again, re-fear the second, and shadowbolt again followed by a quick shadowburn to finish him off. Re-fear the second one, then unleash your DoTs and drain tank while letting the succy attack. You should be able to take the second one down without too much trouble between DoTs, drain tanking and nightfall procs, depending on your spec.

[SuicideSong]

Quite frankly warlocks have a lot of potential against everything but...shadow priests. Shadow priests (I'm one myself) have too many advantages over warlocks. We dispel like 99% of their vital skills, dispel their shadow resistance buffs in less than 2 seconds, we have a more superior fear, and we have a helluva lot more dps and a nastier base DoT which is worth a curse of agony + corruption in one. To summarise it, we squash them. And honestly there is no way a warlock can beat a shadow priest with ease. A wellplayed warlock will have a tough time against an okish shadow priest.

Though I know a few good alliance warlocks -- they're the ones who are in top guilds and are equipped with felheart and non-set items which add ginormous amounts of stamina and +shadow damage (felinfused leggings, etc etc) and have reached shadow bolt crits of
3k and such. Tbh, to make warlocks more equal vs. other classes, blizz needs to implement some changes that make it so that warlocks dont need to have great gear or experienced players (by experienced I mean legendary players like Drakedog) behind the keyboard to fair well.

[Akira]

So you're saying that blizzard should make it so just any monkey could start urinating on a keyboard to be a good player.

To be honest, now matter how much they dumb down any class there will still be people better than most, and that's because they aren't morons. I love that warlocks take intelligence to play, it's not that hard to figure out should you have more than one brain cell at your disposal.

[selone]

You should be able to handle at least two simultaneous enemies in PvP, so long as they don't both get the jump on you and stun-lock you.

Seduce the first, fear the second. Don't DoT them. Curse of Shadow the seduced one, then hit him with Shadow Bolt. Seduce again, re-fear the second, and shadowbolt again followed by a quick shadowburn to finish him off. Re-fear the second one, then unleash your DoTs and drain tank while letting the succy attack. You should be able to take the second one down without too much trouble between DoTs, drain tanking and nightfall procs, depending on your spec.

Man you must either be a warlock god, or I suck because believe you me taking down 2 simul enemies in wsg on my server is not as easy as you make it out to be.
Whetehr its because 1 of the 2 is a rogue, has a pet, can break the fear/immune to it, can stun/incapacitate/fear/confuse etc seduce. fear on 2 people is something i do as adelaying tactic not as a beat 2 oppnents simultaneously, unless their class choice/skill is low.

[Amyss]

Keep in mind no one class will take down two skilled opponents.

Most people are not what I consider skilled opponents. But you should understand what I am saying.

[BenDover]

You should be able to handle at least two simultaneous enemies in PvP, so long as they don't both get the jump on you and stun-lock you.

Seduce the first, fear the second. Don't DoT them. Curse of Shadow the seduced one, then hit him with Shadow Bolt. Seduce again, re-fear the second, and shadowbolt again followed by a quick shadowburn to finish him off. Re-fear the second one, then unleash your DoTs and drain tank while letting the succy attack. You should be able to take the second one down without too much trouble between DoTs, drain tanking and nightfall procs, depending on your spec.

I thought after the new trinkets it was more the exception than the rule that this was possible for a warlock. I haven't PvPed much, and especially not lately, but I things had gotten a lot harder for those that rely on fear.

[Thorns]

I have a lvl 24 gnomelock on frostwhisper. Thought it would be as easy as playin any other class. Man was i mistakin, specially in PvP i had to train :S.

But i always thought that the strongest power of a lock were his Dots. But using fear + Dots won't work much since they break the fear. So when do u guys use your Dots?

[construct]

Oh listen to you warlocks stroke yourselves :P

[XaToM]

I only PvP in WSG (on a PvE server you see), but as a Warlock I can tell you that there is one way to kill us. Get you and 6 mates and mug us! Mass bodies are a problem, especially as taunt from a VW doesn't work on players. That leave us fearing you all or using seduce to stop 1 of you at a time. Enough bodies to stop us casting spells and you might get somewhere (though you may lose 1 or 2).

You mean you use the void in PvP? what can I say..... but different

[spymoose]

Many Warlocks don't use dots at all. Many quality Locks rely on kiting using Shadow Bolt and Seduce. Fear in there too, and I'm speaking mostly about those specced Destruction.

And lol @ the comment about Shadow Priests having more DPS. You might against a Warlock using DOTs to kill you, but if you're being Shadow Bolt'd you're in trouble. Not to mention your fear is a radius fear and if the Warlock is decent at Seduce kiting you won't even get close. Well specced/geared Warlock's can Shadow Bolt crit for over 2500, I've even heard of 3500, which would 1-hit kill many 60 Priests. I used to have a 60 Priest, as Shadow and as Disc/Holy, and Warlocks are very EZ IF they suck. They are like Hunters, especially for Priests; if it's a moron behind the controls you could do it blindfolded, but if the guy knows his class you're in for some hurt.

[Talos]

Ah warlocks, one of the few classes that when mastered can wipe the floor with anyone.
How would you wipe the floor with an Undead Warrior who has Death Wish and the Grunt PvP Trinket? You won't be fearing or seducing him. He will be in your face, raining all sorts of melee hell on you. Hamstring will prevent you from escaping.

[Talos]

Not to mention your fear is a radius fear and if the Warlock is decent at Seduce kiting you won't even get close.
Priest fear is on a very long cooldown. Grunt Trinket, WOTF, or any host of items with the same ability will break it. It can also be resisted. Don't count on fear in PvP as a Priest.

[James McMurray]

How would you wipe the floor with an Undead Warrior who has Death Wish and the Grunt PvP Trinket? You won't be fearing or seducing him. He will be in your face, raining all sorts of melee hell on you. Hamstring will prevent you from escaping.

Not sure what Death Wish does, but it might be doable with Curse of Exhaustion and a Discombobulator to make sure he can't get close to you.

[bluerex]

Priest fear is on a very long cooldown. Grunt Trinket, WOTF, or any host of items with the same ability will break it. It can also be resisted. Don't count on fear in PvP as a Priest.

Have to agree with Talos. Ever since 1.6 patch, i cant beat a warrior anymore

[Lord m]

two things:

firstly, i LIKE the lock being a rare and difficult class to play. if we were easy and lots played em, id feel less important, and less... well... godlike. the idea of a class that by and large is played poorly, handing out ass whoopins left and rite is sweet.

secondly, dont underestimate imps. many people try jump locks cuyz they only have an imp out. but that imp is giving em 1k hp and 200 dmg fireballs every second.

imp ftw.

by the way: i got ganked by a warlcok same lvl as me, with a succy. i with no pet.

battle follows:

he curse of weknessed med, which was a tad odd. he set his succy to attack me.

never once used seduce, even when i had him feared and was castign soulfire.

he then ran up and started... HITING ME!? i nearly died laughing. i only just managed 2 dothim b4 collapsing in laughter. and i WON!

bad warlcoks are so FUNNY.

m

[Tollin]

The only thing I have found to use against warriors is curse of exhaustion. Apply it, run to max range, and nuke away.

Fear and seduce only work one maybe two times. I know that so I plan for it. And I agree with Lord M imps can put a hurtin on somebody.

Curse of exhaustion, amp curse, run away, corruption, siphon life, immolate, run away again. All the while the imp is blasting them.

Shadow bolt, searing pain, repeat until dead.

Works, for me, about 70% of the time against warriors.

[Talos]

two things:

firstly, i LIKE the lock being a rare and difficult class to play. if we were easy and lots played em, id feel less important, and less... well... godlike. the idea of a class that by and large is played poorly, handing out ass whoopins left and rite is sweet.

secondly, dont underestimate imps. many people try jump locks cuyz they only have an imp out. but that imp is giving em 1k hp and 200 dmg fireballs every second.

imp ftw.

by the way: i got ganked by a warlcok same lvl as me, with a succy. i with no pet.

battle follows:

he curse of weknessed med, which was a tad odd. he set his succy to attack me.

never once used seduce, even when i had him feared and was castign soulfire.

he then ran up and started... HITING ME!? i nearly died laughing. i only just managed 2 dothim b4 collapsing in laughter. and i WON!

bad warlcoks are so FUNNY.

m
Why didn't you banish the succubus, instead of letting it hit you? heh

[Talos]

The only thing I have found to use against warriors is curse of exhaustion. Apply it, run to max range, and nuke away.

Fear and seduce only work one maybe two times. I know that so I plan for it. And I agree with Lord M imps can put a hurtin on somebody.

Curse of exhaustion, amp curse, run away, corruption, siphon life, immolate, run away again. All the while the imp is blasting them.

Shadow bolt, searing pain, repeat until dead.

Works, for me, about 70% of the time against warriors.
Intercept, he's on you. Hamstring to negate CoE. Death Wish to provide immunity to fear and seduce. You die.

[DrunkCajun]

Intercept, he's on you. Hamstring to negate CoE. Death Wish to provide immunity to fear and seduce. You die.

Which is why I hit warriors with Corruption, Siphon Life, Curse of Agony, and the imp. I then drain tank a bit, nail them with the Nightfall proc, and drop a Shadowburn on them. If I'm gonna die and need to use it, I'll use Death Coil. That's usually enough to finish them off.

[Talos]

Which is why I hit warriors with Corruption, Siphon Life, Curse of Agony, and the imp. I then drain tank a bit, nail them with the Nightfall proc, and drop a Shadowburn on them. If I'm gonna die and need to use it, I'll use Death Coil. That's usually enough to finish them off.
One shadowbolt, shadowburn, coil and those DoTs should not be enough to kill a warrior... ever.

[DrunkCajun]

One shadowbolt, shadowburn, coil and those DoTs should not be enough to kill a warrior... ever.

Not usually, but if we're in a mass PvP situation, chances are they're getting to me with less than 100% life. Add in the imp blasting him (folks forget the imp 9 times outta 10) and drain tanking him + healthstone, it gets close. I usually don't make a point of going after warriors who have full life, or moreover don't DoT them right off. Usually hit them from max distance with CoS and a SB to open and then DoT/drain. I'd say it works out about 70% of the time. The times it fails are the times I get no crits. One SB crit=1500+ dmg, +DoTs+1000ish dmg from another SB+1000ish dmg from shadowburn+imp+deathcoil usually is.

[Drewstein]

Intercept, he's on you. Hamstring to negate CoE. Death Wish to provide immunity to fear and seduce. You die.
You ready for this?

Amp Agony, corrupt, immolate, siphon life, and have VW attack. Activate soul link and drain life. Life gets low sac VW for 2K shield insta summon another and death coil/health stone. Re-apply dots if needed, drain life. Life low again, sac VW for another 2K shield... If a warrior can down my 20K hp before I take his 5K, I'll delete my char right now.

Also run through him when applying insta dots so it says "target must be in front of you" to him.

[Lord m]

Why didn't you banish the succubus, instead of letting it hit you? heh

because i was franticaly trying to retain dryness in my pants.

m

[det]

Man you must either be a warlock god, or I suck because believe you me taking down 2 simul enemies in wsg on my server is not as easy as you make it out to be.
Whetehr its because 1 of the 2 is a rogue, has a pet, can break the fear/immune to it, can stun/incapacitate/fear/confuse etc seduce. fear on 2 people is something i do as adelaying tactic not as a beat 2 oppnents simultaneously, unless their class choice/skill is low.

My thoughts exactly. 80 of 1000 ranked PvP Horde players on my server are warlocks. The No. 1 is a 'lock, then the next only comes at 32, then 53. I really see very few of us and I am a beloved target of rogues. I am half down to health before my succubus gets a seduce off and then 75% of all opponents RESIST fear and seduce. It is a beauty when it works, but I mostly lose 1 on 1 duels, make them 2 on 2 or greater, it is a different story.

With these trinkets out, Insta cast fear would be really helpful :) (plus increased seduce range) - Hunters have become a problem as well: They stay out of range of my succubus seduce, yet can send the pet on me. Pet will do evil damage, interrupt my spells while hunter stuns me with his shots. I don't evn want to talk about warriors with Death wish. Funnily Paladins and Priests are the ones I do best against in 1 on 1....

But some nice strategies out there..I must try to get better and better :)

[Lord m]

hunters are usually kinda low on HP. if u just kinda follow em around after fearing the pet, and sorta kill em with instant cast Shadow bolts, burns, and dots / coils, u shud b ok.

m

[Talos]

You ready for this?

Amp Agony, corrupt, immolate, siphon life, and have VW attack. Activate soul link and drain life. Life gets low sac VW for 2K shield insta summon another and death coil/health stone. Re-apply dots if needed, drain life. Life low again, sac VW for another 2K shield... If a warrior can down my 20K hp before I take his 5K, I'll delete my char right now.

Also run through him when applying insta dots so it says "target must be in front of you" to him.
Uh. Soul Link and Siphon Life? You don't like doing damage? No Destruction at all? And no, it doesn't add up to 20k. Soul Link will give your void half the damage for 30 seconds. The void will die before that time is up, which means you'll sac him in maybe 15. The damage from your DoTs is insignificant to kill a good warrior with 5k hps from full. A fury warrior can go through your voids what, 3k hps? Plus the two 2k void sacs pretty fast. then its just you (petless) against him. He's in your face, unfearable, and you're not getting off a 3 second shadowbolt cast, not that you could do much damage with it seeing as you don't have ruin, or devastation for increased crits, or even shadowburn.

[Talos]

hunters are usually kinda low on HP. if u just kinda follow em around after fearing the pet, and sorta kill em with instant cast Shadow bolts, burns, and dots / coils, u shud b ok.

m
BM hunter pets are unfearable with Bestial Wrath. Use a void sac to kill the hunter.

[Tollin]

Uh. Soul Link and Siphon Life? You don't like doing damage? No Destruction at all? And no, it doesn't add up to 20k. Soul Link will give your void half the damage for 30 seconds. The void will die before that time is up, which means you'll sac him in maybe 15. The damage from your DoTs is insignificant to kill a good warrior with 5k hps from full. A fury warrior can go through your voids what, 3k hps? Plus the two 2k void sacs pretty fast. then its just you (petless) against him. He's in your face, unfearable, and you're not getting off a 3 second shadowbolt cast, not that you could do much damage with it seeing as you don't have ruin, or devastation for increased crits, or even shadowburn.

Talos you make good arguments. But to point out some holes. If you, a warlock, went all the way to Soul Link, you get instacast demon. Now it has a cooldown, but, as Drew stated. Use soul link while applying DoT's. Sac VW for shield, 2k shield if I remember right. Insta cast new demon, his example was another void. Mine would most likely be a succy. Hopeing for seduce. Not to mention the Master Demonologist talent. Succy gives 20% reduce physical damage.

While I am shielded, and soul linked, not to mention all the other items Drew mentioned, healthstone, pot etc.... My DoT's are working on your warrior. No they will not kill alone. But, if you went 35 Demon and say 16 in afflication you get free shadowbolt with nightfall. Then the possiblilty could have happened. If not, and went 16 in destruction, then you will get shadowburn, and get reduced shadowbolt, and bane.

Once succy is in the mix, try seduce, try fear if seduce does not work. If neither work. Succy will be whopping on you, the warrior. Now in the demon tree you get get improved succy. She is stronger and hits harder. At this point, use soul link again as you will be concentrating on me and hope I can survive and take you down before I go down.

Not an easy fight but do able I think. Don't instantly knock the warlock, nor should we instantly knock any other class.

[Talos]

Mine would most likely be a succy. Hopeing for seduce. Not to mention the Master Demonologist talent. Succy gives 20% reduce physical damage.
No, the succy increases your outgoing damage by 10%. The voidwalker reduces your physical damage taken by 20%.

While I am shielded, and soul linked
When you sac your void, the soul-link dies as well. In your example above, you would not be both Soul Linked and Shielded at the same time.

My DoT's are working on your warrior. No they will not kill alone. But, if you went 35 Demon and say 16 in afflication you get free shadowbolt with nightfall.
You're assuming that it procs, which does not always happen. In fact, you have a 4% chance of this happening, you have better odds assuming that you'll get a 2500dmg crit.

Then the possiblilty could have happened. If not, and went 16 in destruction, then you will get shadowburn, and get reduced shadowbolt, and bane.
Bane is "reduced shadowbolt". They are not two separate talents.

Once succy is in the mix, try seduce, try fear if seduce does not work. If neither work. Succy will be whopping on you, the warrior. Now in the demon tree you get get improved succy. She is stronger and hits harder.
Her Lash of Pain hits harder every TWELVE SECONDS. With Unholy Power, her regular damage is increased by 20%, but is still insignificant for the duration of this fight. Most of your succy's damage comes from her LoP, so arguably she would be stronger with imp LoP in the destruction tree as she would be lashing twice as often.

At this point, use soul link again as you will be concentrating on me and hope I can survive and take you down before I go down.
Soul Link costs 30% of your base mana, and doesn't it have a cooldown? You're talking about two soul links, and the summoning of another void (330 mana or so with MS/FD). Plus all your DoTs, and a bolt or two if you can get it in. Oh, and coil. You also want to try to burn some mana fearing. How much mana do you have?!

[Kushan]

No, the succy increases your outgoing damage by 10%. The voidwalker reduces your physical damage taken by 20%. actually void is only 10%

have either of you ever actually played a warlock?


You're assuming that it procs, which does not always happen. In fact, you have a 4% chance of this happening, you have better odds assuming that you'll get a 2500dmg crit.
4% chance per tick of each shadow-based dot. so 4% every tick of CoA, corruption, drain life, and siphon life. pretty decent chance there. but i would like to point out that you can't get siphon life and soul link. soul link is a 31 pt talent. so obviously he has never actually done this exact strat... it is impossible.


Her Lash of Pain hits harder every TWELVE SECONDS. With Unholy Power, her regular damage is increased by 20%, but is still insignificant for the duration of this fight. Most of your succy's damage comes from her LoP, so arguably she would be stronger with imp LoP in the destruction tree as she would be lashing twice as often. she also gets the 10% dmg bonus from MD. so 30% more dmg overall. and from what i have seen, lash of pain is pretty useless. i think the main purpose for it is generating aggro, considering her normal attacks do nearly as much as it and happen much more often.


Soul Link costs 30% of your base mana, and doesn't it have a cooldown? You're talking about two soul links, and the summoning of another void (330 mana or so with MS/FD). Plus all your DoTs, and a bolt or two if you can get it in. Oh, and coil. You also want to try to burn some mana fearing. How much mana do you have?! soul link is not 30% of base mana, and there is no cooldow. its actually pretty cheap... dots are also insta cast and super low mana. fear is pretty low mana cost too. while i am soul link/destruction, my general strat vs a deathwish warrior also involves 2 void sacs, and mana is usually not a problem. i don't have the benefit of all those nice insta cast dots tho, or nightfall...

[Talos]

actually void is only 10%

have either of you ever actually played a warlock?
My main is a warlock, I have simply never had a build with Soul Link, as I am addicted to Ruin (end-game, I had DP for leveling). I misread the tooltip when I posted this, was looking at the imp's 20% reduced aggro for some reason for that number.

4% chance per tick of each shadow-based dot. so 4% every tick of CoA, corruption, drain life, and siphon life. pretty decent chance there.
Have you ever played a warlock? 4% per tick of corruption and drain life. Go up to a mob, hit it with CoA, you will never get a nightfall proc. Same with siphon life. Read the tooltip and test it with your own experiences. CoA and Siphon Life do not proc nightfall.

and from what i have seen, lash of pain is pretty useless. i think the main purpose for it is generating aggro, considering her normal attacks do nearly as much as it and happen much more often
Lash of Pain more than doubles her damage output. Far from useless if you want your succy to do any damage.

soul link is not 30% of base mana, and there is no cooldow. its actually pretty cheap
According to the tooltip, it is 30% of base mana.

dots are also insta cast and super low mana. fear is pretty low mana cost too. while i am soul link/destruction, my general strat vs a deathwish warrior also involves 2 void sacs, and mana is usually not a problem. i don't have the benefit of all those nice insta cast dots tho, or nightfall...
In group pvp, what do you do if the priest dispels your void sac? Or the shaman purges it, etc? You're back to square one, minus a pet.

[Kushan]

Have you ever played a warlock? 4% per tick of corruption and drain life. Go up to a mob, hit it with CoA, you will never get a nightfall proc. Same with siphon life. Read the tooltip and test it with your own experiences. CoA and Siphon Life do not proc nightfall.well, i have never used nightfall. but i read somewhere that CoA and siphon life could proc it. ;P

Lash of Pain more than doubles her damage output. Far from useless if you want your succy to do any damage. really? it doesn't seem to me it does much dmg compared to her main attacks, but i am not sure. care to explain?

According to the tooltip, it is 30% of base mana.are you using the english version of the game? there is no 30% of base mana on mine... i tested it to be sure, it is much less than 30% of base mana.


In group pvp, what do you do if the priest dispels your void sac? Or the shaman purges it, etc? You're back to square one, minus a pet. i don't use in group pvp. for 1v1 and duels only... group pvp is too fast paced and random to waste 2 shards on something that can be negated in so many ways. it gets dispelled, rogue sneaks up on you, etc... soul link build is pretty much useless in mass pvp. i took it to avoid getting ganked so often by rogues while grinding. for that purpose, it is pretty useful... but next patch it is getting nerfed, anyway ;\

maybe time to switch to a conflag or sm/ruin build.

[Tollin]

To Talos and Kushan. I, too, am a 60 lock. However, I am a SM/Ruin build. I never made it to full master demonologist when I was working in that tree. I was just going off what Det was saying and my own thoughts and ideas.

Talos, yes corruption does proc Nightfall. I have had it proc on me two or three times in one mob fight while grinding. And an acutal tactic I use for mass PvP/AB is simple. I apply corruption, siphon life and curse of agony to every horde that gets in range. And yes I have had Nightfall proc from doing that. You can believe me or not up to you. But corruption does proc nightfall. Now if you can get a drain life going during PvP then your almost guaranteed a nightfall.

I do not know what all you get from the master demonologist talent. I have never had soul link so I don't know how it works exactly. I was going off what Det was saying.

As far as mana. As it stands right now, with my PvE gear I have 5300 mana and 3600 hps. With my plus intellect gear on i have 5600 mana, but 3200 hps. Seldom in AB is mana an issue. Tonight for example, I was teamed up with a Pally. I could life tap if need be and he would heal me.

As far as fighting warriors 1v1. I use curse of exhaustion, but still it doesn't help enough. If I get a fear off I have a shot. But with them going to berserk stance they are immune to fear. So, hopefully a seduce will work. But the warrior rank 2 trinket can break that. Thank god its on a five min cooldown. But lately warriors have been beating me senseless. Which is why I am considering going for a more PvP centric build. Most likely full out destruction with some in demonic embrace for the extra stamina.

[Talos]

Talos, yes corruption does proc Nightfall.
Re-read my post. I stated that only corruption and drain life proc nightfall, not CoA or Siphon Life.

[Tollin]

Aww reread and comment rescinded Talos.

[Lord m]

just a quick shout out to the fire locks, who neither care for pets or DoT's.

dont worry. ur not alone ;)

m

[Torvon]

You should be able to handle at least two simultaneous enemies in PvP, so long as they don't both get the jump on you and stun-lock you.

Seduce the first, fear the second. Don't DoT them. Curse of Shadow the seduced one, then hit him with Shadow Bolt. Seduce again, re-fear the second, and shadowbolt again followed by a quick shadowburn to finish him off. Re-fear the second one, then unleash your DoTs and drain tank while letting the succy attack. You should be able to take the second one down without too much trouble between DoTs, drain tanking and nightfall procs, depending on your spec.

Two enemies means one pet, and at least one undead you can't fear. Then the situation looks totally different. You are lvl 60, I am not, but I would disagree that this only works not "if they stunlock you".

A single nonfearable hunter pet is enough to stunlock a warlock nowadays ...


^^^
And now, after reading the whole discussion, I would conclude: There maybe some awsome warlock players out there, but the chance that the warrior will beat you is (given same skill, gear, lvl, time of preparation) simply higher.
And if you win against warrior in 70% of the cases (though you somehow only seem to face warriors with low health in mass PvP, because you don't engange in combat with them if they are full .......) - the average warlock definetely won't against the average warrior.

It's that simple I guess, and difficult not to agree with.
Of course, we have higher chances beating down other classes, in contrast. Not hunters though :-)

[Lord m]

however, statisticaly it 2 players are likely to contain at least 1 caster. assume say, uve got a combat classs and a caster. deathcoil and then fear the combat guy, and shadow burn, imo, conflag, sp sp, engineer bombs, burn again, that sort of thing. if u can destroy the caster (low hp) fast enuf, u shud b able to have at least a fair chance against the other. a conflag and burn crit will just about kill most casters.

m

[Afballz]

I had an attempted ganking (carebear server, I forgot I was flagged, they forgot that succy can be invisible) by a 30 warrior and a 31 druid the other day (I was 32) and all I did was CoT the druid, CoW the war, kite them both till the warrior was dead (He only hit me twice) and DoT/Draintank the druid.

And it was surprisingly easy. Too easy in fact, they reacted to my plans like puppets on strings so I felt a bit cheated. I'd agree that it has more to do with the person behind the toon then the toon itself.

They probably panicked and made big errors in judgment, I know that I've done it before.

[Aerath]

Druid should've been able to at least get rid of your curse(s)...

Oh well. Won't say I'd have done that well :P


BTW - to me, it's not ganking if they get an honour kill out of it. (Even if that means a lvl 60 stomping on a ... 48 is it ?)

[Lord m]

i think by now ganking has become a technical term: it means, to engage an enemy whilst they are already engaged. it makes no reference to honor at all.

m

[Raging]

i think by now ganking has become a technical term: it means, to engage an enemy whilst they are already engaged. it makes no reference to honor at all.

m

That's just being an ass. Ganking is just killing someone. You can gank them while fighting a mob, you can gank them at half health, you can gank noobs, or you can gank someone who's afk. Ganking is just the act of pk.

[WingedNazgul]

That's just being an ass. Ganking is just killing someone. You can gank them while fighting a mob, you can gank them at half health, you can gank noobs, or you can gank someone who's afk. Ganking is just the act of pk.

Ganking is when someone attacks you.

PVP is when you attack someone.

[Aerath]

Ganking is when someone attacks you.

PVP is when you attack someone.

Worthy of a siggy... pity I don't have one :P

[DrunkCajun]

I'd just like to say that the new Death Coil rocks. WotF all you want, you'll still run around like an idiot for 3 seconds while I start nuking you. :happy34:

[Lord m]

I'd just like to say that the new Death Coil rocks. WotF all you want, you'll still run around like an idiot for 3 seconds while I start nuking you. :happy34:

/agree.

/agree alot.

incidentaly, if its a str8 up, u both meet on the road, dismount, get to full health and mana, and then engage, its not ganking. ganking is the negative connotations, its killing when u have the upper hand.

tho that wud mean ne1 i kill has been ganked... i ALWAYS have the upper hand ;)

m