Outland to be PvP mode for ALL server types? [Archive] - Unofficial World of Warcraft Forums

bleachy

30-10-2005, 05:38 AM

From the CGW article:
"While all of the WOW races have strong motivating incentives to go to outland -the designers are also delighted to point out that the relative 'truce' between them all(well except on PvP servers) will have no place in Outland."

Later they stated:
"You hear that everyone, no carebears in Outland. Blizzard has made it official."

I really hope that I am just reading this wrong.

I joined a normal server so that I wouln't have to deal with ganking and downtime due to PvP.

If Outland is PvP mode across the board, I will be extremely upset with Blizzard.

OverKill

30-10-2005, 08:09 AM

I'm happy with it but I bet that Blizzard will change this. That is unless it's somehow dire to Outland's gameplay.

wolfbane

31-10-2005, 12:05 PM

Like I said in some previous thread about this, hopefully the PvE mindset will carry on into the Outlands so the ganking won't be much of an issue. It will probably happen, but the honor points for it is not worth it compared to BG's which are available on all servers instead.

That being said, there's always the strange breed of idiots that derive some odd pleasure from corpse camping. Given the nature of Outlands I think most quests will be party based too so you won't be alone most of the time probably. Pretty sure it won't be the equivalent of STV on PvP servers at any rate.

I frowned at the idea too at first, but then the thought of the whole "Wild West" Outland seemed kind of cool. I for one will just wait and see how it all works out.

TheJarulf

31-10-2005, 12:42 PM

I doesn't say it is "PvP mode" now do it? As far as I can tell, it seem more that the alliance/horde thing doesn't exists, that is, if you go PvP, you do it not only towards the other side as normal, but if you are an orc, for exmaple, you are also hostile to Undeads, Trolls and so on. So there is no alliance and Horde, but instead, 10 different races. I assume that on a normal server, you still has to toggle to go PvP. I can be completely wrong of course :)

Ablamar

31-10-2005, 01:30 PM

I have read this same article and after that I have read an article on Gamespy about this. I think CGW might be confused about the PvP in Hellfire Peninsula zone. On Gamespy they say Hellfire Peninsula will be a BG INSIDE the Caverns of Time. And if that is true I can understand this article in CGW. Know that Gamespy got this information at Blizzcon and that CGW got it before Blizzcon.

So I really think one of the sources must be confused, and I think CGW is the one confused. So I think the PvP part is not true. Or they just used the wrong word to describe that Outland is taking the war to the Burning Legion and the Burning Crusade, instead of the Azerothians waiting for them to come back. The heroes of Azeroth once and for all want to stop the Burning Legion from ever being able to come back to Azeroth.

Your Average WoW Player

31-10-2005, 07:58 PM

I highly doubt that. Blizzard wouldn't do that. Otherwise, Outland would be dead on PvE and RP-PvE servers because PvPers would be like:
"0hhh sweet 1 can g0 the3e & gank all teh car3be3rs!!!!!!!!!11!11 cuz they d0nt n0 h0w 2 surv1ve teh 1337ness of 1337 lvl 70 l1ke me!!11!!!!!11!!1"

Blizzard made the PvE and RP PvE servers to prevent that. Making Outland PvP for all servers would ruin it for PvE server peoples.

WingedNazgul

31-10-2005, 08:19 PM

Starseed

31-10-2005, 08:46 PM

Most likely, Outland will only be accessible to those who purchase the expansion. Knowing this ahead of time, you could simply vote with your dollars and not buy it if forced PVP doesn't sound like your cup of tea.

So basically what you're saying, is to forego new zones, races, instances & items because people on RP/PvE servers don't want to be forces into what they didn't sign up for? :whistle:

Doesn't sound too financially sound on Blizzard's behalf.

WingedNazgul

31-10-2005, 09:13 PM

I'm sure Blizzard will still make out like bandits with the new expansion.

northernlights

31-10-2005, 09:18 PM

1. They are adding new content within Azeroth for players like you. By the time this expansion is released there will be a lot more content without going to the outlands.

2. My 3 level-capped toons are on a PVE server. I recently rerolled on a PVP server and love it. I grind solo so there are occasional gankings but it really is a different, more fun game for me. On PVP servers there is a much greater sense of comradarie within your faction that PVE servers. Players seem much more helpful in general, and theres no better way to start an instance than your 5-man dusting an alliance group showing up for the same dungeon.

3. Things happen that could never happen on a PVE server. My 35 warlock was jumped like 2 lvl 25's and 1 26 yesterday, and I continued fighting the three for the better part of an hour. It was fun, balanced PVP that could never have occured on a PVE server.

Astayanax

31-10-2005, 10:40 PM

1. They are adding new content within Azeroth for players like you. By the time this expansion is released there will be a lot more content without going to the outlands.

That is a lousy excuse to not be able to enjoy the Outland content imho. That is like Blizzard never putting in BG and PvP rewards because there was enough action invading cities. Ignoring that, the emphasis of the game for the expansion is in the Outlands. You don't have to PVP to kill Ragnaros and Blackwing, so why must you pvp to kill Prince Kael'thas and Illidian?

2. My 3 level-capped toons are on a PVE server. I recently rerolled on a PVP server and love it. I grind solo so there are occasional gankings but it really is a different, more fun game for me. On PVP servers there is a much greater sense of comradarie within your faction that PVE servers. Players seem much more helpful in general, and theres no better way to start an instance than your 5-man dusting an alliance group showing up for the same dungeon.

People like you and I may think so; but that doesn't hold true for everyone. There are quite a good number of people who select a PvE server to avoid these sort of things and to just jam it down their throats for no reason is stupid.

3. Things happen that could never happen on a PVE server. My 35 warlock was jumped like 2 lvl 25's and 1 26 yesterday, and I continued fighting the three for the better part of an hour. It was fun, balanced PVP that could never have occured on a PVE server.

I am assuming this is an extension of (2) and that is the point. People go on a PVE server to explicitly avoid the type of stuff people have to go through on a PVP server.

Personally, I could care less but I am pretty sure putting PVP rules on a PVE server would be one of blizzard's biggest mistakes.

Ablamar

31-10-2005, 10:53 PM

Read the Gamespy coverage about Outland. On the second page where they discuss Caverns of Time, they mention PvP in the Hellfire Peninsula. They mention that as being a battleground in that dungeon. And since the Hellfire Peninsula is the first Outland zone, it seems that Outland will NOT be PvP but only in Caverns of Time (warcraft 2 battle).

construct

31-10-2005, 11:19 PM

niteshade6

31-10-2005, 11:41 PM

Actually people on PvE servers are often worse in that regard. Most of them are about 80% alliance, 20% horde. When flagged horde show up, they will die no matter what. It doesn't matter if 90% of the server doesn't want to kill that poor low level guy just trying to complete a quest and shouts at everyone to leave them alone....the remaining 10% includes enough people to kill him. Honor points are even more precious in a PVE server, and people really haven't learned an ettiquite for things.

I play as Alliance myself, so really they could make all the outlands PVP and it wouldn't effect me much. Most horde would die too quickly to really bother me. I'd feel really sorry for the horde if they made that change though. We'd probably end up with even less horde as they all quit from constant ganking.....and then I'd never get a battleground going.

But anyway the magazine never says all of the Outlands are PVP. People are doing some massive conclusion jumping there.

Yogo

31-10-2005, 11:47 PM

According to Shane Deberi, Blizzard wants to elimate the little truce between the Horde and the Alliance.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Outland as a total PvP zone, no matter what realm.

Ablamar

31-10-2005, 11:48 PM

But, doesn't everyone who plays on a PvE server generally carry the same mindset? Would it be safe to assume that the general personality of someone who has dedicated their time to reach 60 on a PvE server isn't the relentless, corpse-camping ganker that ruins everyone's gaming experience on PvP servers?

They aren't indeed but when they add this pvp enabled zone, the gankers will level up a new character on the PvE servers. Gankers want nothing else but an uneven playing field that gives them every chance to ruin someone's experience. But then again the Gamespy article makes it seem this zone isn't even like CGW mentioned (although they didn't even use the word pvp but only carebear, which can mean something else as well).

Ablamar

31-10-2005, 11:54 PM

According to Shane Deberi, Blizzard wants to elimate the little truce between the Horde and the Alliance.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Outland as a total PvP zone, no matter what realm.

Elimnating the truce can also be just be questwise in which it will explain that there is no longer a real truce. Chris Metzen has said that the Horde and Alliance will start to hate eachother more and more again. But this doesn't have to mean full pvp. This will totally RUIN the different server rulesets.

I doubt Blizzard is that dumb to force everyone who buys the expansion to always be pvp enabled. This will make all servers exactly the same. Blizzard knows that the majority of the people don't want to PvP when they don't feel like. They have seen the countless whiners on the PvP servers (people who whine about ganking on a pvp server just don't belong on such a server). If Blizzard is really dumb enough to make Outland PvP enabled on all servers, they might as well make every ruleset exactly the same.

So I totally doubt Outland being full PvP if PvP at all. Just go read the gamespy article, page 2, last paragraph.

construct

31-10-2005, 11:59 PM

They aren't indeed but when they add this pvp enabled zone, the gankers will level up a new character on the PvE servers. Gankers want nothing else but an uneven playing field that gives them every chance to ruin someone's experience. But then again the Gamespy article makes it seem this zone isn't even like CGW mentioned (although they didn't even use the word pvp but only carebear, which can mean something else as well).
I will say I find it highly unlikely that someone will level a charater up to 60+ solely to gank on a PvE server in the Outlands when they can just stay on their own servers and gank in any contested zone they want to.

LunarSolaris

01-11-2005, 12:15 AM

As has already been mentioned more than once... people choose PvE servers for a reason - because they want to CHOOSE when to PvP or not to do it. People that play on PvP servers agree that they will be PvP flagged in contested zones.

I don't quite understand why some people want outland to be universally PvP. I think it was explained best by saying that it's not fair to "ram it down our throats". I don't see anything wrong with the current system the way it is. PvP servers, PvE servers, and RP servers. I think Blizzard would be making a mistake to force PvP on the general populace if they don't want it - after all, isn't Blizzards biggest push to try and appeal to everyone? Narrowing it down to certain PvP fans doesn't seem to have mass appeal and isn't a very smart move IMO.

Owain

01-11-2005, 12:23 AM

I will say I find it highly unlikely that someone will level a charater up to 60+ solely to gank on a PvE server in the Outlands when they can just stay on their own servers and gank in any contested zone they want to.
You must lead a sheltered life. I have known scores of people from games like UO Siege Perilous and Shadowbane who would LOVE the opportunity to lay waste to a PvE community if they could. They would feel compelled to 'punish' them for their 'incorrect' server choice. That, and the opportunity to grief a population of players who particularly do not want to participate in that kind of play would be irresistable to that kind of player. There is no joy in staying on a PvP server to gank, because that is consensual PvP. It is the act of violation, the non-consensual ganking that players like this crave.

Yes, it requires an aberrant psychology for players to seek that kind of play, but there is no shortage of sociopaths in online gaming.

Suicidal Zebra

01-11-2005, 12:29 AM

Boogie

01-11-2005, 04:17 AM

PVE servers suck anyway, consider this a saviour so u can get to experience the fun of a PVP server even tho u were foolish enough to roll PVE.

WTB lvl 60 character on PVE server.

construct

01-11-2005, 04:57 AM

Ok, but think about this:

PvE servers have the capacity to both support PvP and PvE gameplay. You can still flag on a PvE server and have it function exactly as a PvP server would. Except you have the decision to flag. That is synonymous with rogues, who also have the luxury of deciding who to fight and when.

In a sense, aren't all you PvE people rogues? You can assess the situation and I bet none of you flag when you encounter a losing battle, and flag when you see one that is in your favor. Very much like a rogue, slinking in the shadows, calculating his odds. Except it's foolproof. No one can "discover" you unflagged and force you to fight.

Abbadon

01-11-2005, 05:07 AM

There really isn't much to worry about, IMO, because the decision to make Outland PvP across all servers would be a very poor finacial decision. I could see some areas being a special ruleset (think Gurubashi Arena) but to just make it globally PvP enabled would upset too many people, and regardless of what anyone thinks, Blizzard is still a company and the bottom line is too important to any company to make a decision that would so greatly upset the user base.

Making Outlands PvP would be just about as dumb a move by Blizzard as making rogues completely undetectable and tripleing backstab and ambush damage would be. Neither will ever happen because too many people would oppose it.

AeroJonesy

01-11-2005, 07:05 AM

Seems to me that more likely would be an increased number of 'PvP' quests in Outland similar to the Last Barov quest and those seen during the Hallows End event. Thus PvP becomes an elective event which should span both PvE/RP and PvP server types.

Agreed. Or perhaps a battleground type instance that isn't limited to party or antyhing else. In other words, you actually have to go into an instance to get flagged. Sort of like an Alterac Valley with a revolving door.

south

01-11-2005, 07:26 AM

The truce they might be talking about might not be only alliance and horde....
It might be that alliance might fight other alliance and horde other horde....
lots of possibilities....
who knows...lol
should be interesting.......that's why we like Blizzard....they make things interesting

wolfbane

01-11-2005, 10:12 AM

Seems to me that more likely would be an increased number of 'PvP' quests in Outland similar to the Last Barov quest and those seen during the Hallows End event. Thus PvP becomes an elective event which should span both PvE/RP and PvP server types.
The more I think about it, this seems the most reasonable one, and the whole instance/BG you can walk in and out from theme.

PVE servers suck anyway, consider this a saviour so u can get to experience the fun of a PVP server even tho u were foolish enough to roll PVE.

WTB lvl 60 character on PVE server.
Praise the lord-ah! Rejoice, we have been saved from our wrongful ways on PvE servers and will be embraced by the 1337 PvPz0rs holy realms.

Boogie

01-11-2005, 11:19 AM

Praise the lord-ah! Rejoice, we have been saved from our wrongful ways on PvE servers and will be embraced by the 1337 PvPz0rs holy realms.

Amen brother.

Boogie

01-11-2005, 11:22 AM

Mort

01-11-2005, 11:44 AM

You must lead a sheltered life. I have known scores of people from games like UO Siege Perilous and Shadowbane who would LOVE the opportunity to lay waste to a PvE community if they could. They would feel compelled to 'punish' them for their 'incorrect' server choice. That, and the opportunity to grief a population of players who particularly do not want to participate in that kind of play would be irresistable to that kind of player. There is no joy in staying on a PvP server to gank, because that is consensual PvP. It is the act of violation, the non-consensual ganking that players like this crave.

Yes, it requires an aberrant psychology for players to seek that kind of play, but there is no shortage of sociopaths in online gaming.

Well said. I think this is an unfortunate truth about some people (and the irony of it is ofcourse that someone in this thread (and you know who you are) almost gave us a prime example of this tendence) :happy53:

I personaly play on a PvP server, so for me it wont have any effect if Outland is faction based PvP or not. But at the very least, if Blizzard chooses to make outland PvP no matter server, they have to give people who doesnt want to go there an area where they can reach lvl 70. Grinding mobs in Winterspring and Silithus wont get you to lvl 70 any time soon.

Boogie

01-11-2005, 11:55 AM

----
(and the irony of it is ofcourse that someone in this thread (and you know who you are) almost gave us a prime example of this tendence) :happy53:

Hello

Suicidal Zebra

01-11-2005, 05:46 PM

PVE servers suck anyway, consider this a saviour so u can get to experience the fun of a PVP server even tho u were foolish enough to roll PVE.

WTB lvl 60 character on PVE server.

WTB Gargantuan :rolleyes:

degnar

01-11-2005, 07:25 PM

PvP in Outlands will not be the same as ganking. Think about it. It would be more like battlegrounds. Everyone will be roughly the same level (60-70), and experienced/strong enough to handle an attack. It is very different from a level ?? camping a lowbie area for jollies... the lowbies can't kill, and it takes forever for other high level chars to get there to help out.

That being said, I can see some get-a-life/sociopath/a-holes trying to camp or grief people. We'll have to see how it plays out. I immagine this happening to me, and I would simply type "/1 ganker is camping me near xxx". Very easy to call in reinforcements (in theory). I could see Outlands being a questing area, and not very "grind friendly."

For the record, I'm NOT in favor of auto-PvP. I do think this goes against the wishes of the vast majority, and would piss off too many people. But having a lot (most) quests/mobs involve PvP or flag you would be great.

triqui

01-11-2005, 08:40 PM

AFAIK, the arena in DM is auto pvp in pve servers also, isnt it? (where razza is). THink on it like a HUGE razza arena full of razza mobs with razza drop rates ;)

cougar

01-11-2005, 09:19 PM

pfft, I run around on my pve server with my pvp flag toggled on almost 24/7.

Only times I turn it off is if I'm grouped with people who don't want to pvp, I don't want to spread my flag to them through buffs.

I encourage any nerdy pvp griefers to re-roll and try and gank me.

I'll tear em a new one and leave them kicking and screaming all the way back to their pvp server

AeroJonesy

01-11-2005, 11:04 PM

Also keep in mind resurrecting in Outland could be like resurrecting in BG instances. You may not even lose the 10% durability or get resurrection sickness, you might just have to wait a certain amount of time (30 seconds or 1 minute) or it might be like you have 5 minutes before you can be rezzed again. It'd be a debuff like resurrection sickness, where as soon as you rez, you have a debuff that lasts for 5 minutes not allowing you to resurrect at a graveyard. After 5 minutes you can rez. If you live longer than 5 minutes after rezzing, you can rez right away the next time you die. Otherwise, you have to wait. It would help prevent massive zerging on eithre side. Also, the graveyards could be massively protected by guards or other NPCs to prevent graveyard camping.

If you give it some thought, there's many ways to force people into PvP without it being a giant setback to those who don't really want to participate, and without it encouraging some of the nastier PvP strategies like ganking and corpse camping.

In regards to corpse camping, remember that you will consistently have high level players around. So you can just call out for some help to get people off your corpse. Your pleas likely won't fall on deaf ear.s

Mort

02-11-2005, 12:09 AM

PvP in Outlands will not be the same as ganking. Think about it. It would be more like battlegrounds. Everyone will be roughly the same level (60-70), and experienced/strong enough to handle an attack.

That may be so, but in a BG every player has one objective in mind: beating the enemy faction. So unless Outland is just one massive area with little or no mobs, and most quests related to PvP, not PvE, it would be more like The Eastern Plaguelands are now (but with different levels), and we all know how common PvP attacks are there on a PvP server. I realy dont see Blizzard forcing players on PvE servers to become PvP flaged once they enter Outland.

Davemetalhead

02-11-2005, 12:13 AM

I dearly hope PvP is not forced - I loathe PvP, absolutley hate it. I have zero interest in fighting other players - I'm a fully fledged carebear, and proud of it ...

LunarSolaris

02-11-2005, 12:37 AM

The problem with comparing forced PvP in Outland with the PvP arena in DM or BG's is the difference of choice. You make an active choice to either jump into the arena in DM or to enter a BG, however, if you wanted to level your character to 70 (keeping in mind of course that at this point, it seems that outland would be the only viable choice for leveling after 60), you would be FORCED to be in a PvP environment, not choose.

I don't quite get why some of you still think that people should be forced into an environment they don't want to be in because you happen to like it.

Ok, so you enjoy the constant excitement or "thrill" from the idea that you can get attacked at any moment or attack someone at any moment. Many don't like that. So you like the idea that you can form comraderie and get "help" to nail that ganker... some don't like that or the hassle of having to do that. Some of us like to choose PvP. When I drop into a PvP arena, go to a BG, or flag myself, it's because I wanted to do that. I made an active choice to do it. It's the same reason I CHOSE a PvE server instead of a PvP server.

I get irritated at many of you that seem to think that people that don't play the way you do are somehow less. It's arrogant and narrow-minded thinking at best.

degnar

02-11-2005, 03:09 AM

I hope that Blizzard will keep it so that you can choose when to enter PvP (on normal servers). But also have many quests that will cause you to be flagged for PvP. Then you choose when to start the quests... if you are not ready to PvP, don't start the quest. You still have the choice of when to start PvP. As long as you are not forced into it, that would be good.

I don't quite get why some of you still think that people should be forced into an environment they don't want to be in because you happen to like it.

I think that is how Blizzard wants it. World of WARcraft. I think they want the PvP, but without ganking, camping, and all the other bad things.

OKJUSTSOMEUSERNAME

02-11-2005, 03:16 AM

Ablamar

02-11-2005, 04:19 AM

I dont this that Blizzard has intended to change the overall structure of realms by modifiy the specific nature of realms (pve, normal, rp, pvp) to purely pvp. I think this all stems from miscommunication or simply a misunderstanding.

Finally someone in this thread that sees that. I have been saying the same thing. Especially since a Gamespy article actually shows that one zone in Outland is going to be a battleground INSIDE Caverns of Time.