Screw Wsg!

[Jorix]

Okay ... Screw WSG. Alliance always -- and I mean out of 30+ runs, ALWAYS loses... ANyone got a definitive stragety to share?? I really really miss Arathi Basin after this weekend :) We do rather well there, but put us into a smaller arena and OH NO we dont know wtf to do...

We agree that 3-5 shoudl stay back and protect the flag, the others flank and run up the side, grab the flag and get back here.... What do the defense people do? They decide well, we're bored, so were goin to run around too... Horde jump down from the top usually, steal the flag, and adios. You got 10 horde there, and 10 on the way back and getting the flag back is near impossible...

Quite frankly Im pretty sick of WSG. Make it a 2x honor AB weekend!!

[Dynafrack]

Can't play D initially because they'll all just zerg u and then you're dead. When I play all players usually stick together (both horde and alliance) and grab the opponent's flag. After that the battles usually begin in the battlefield.

I don't normally see any hardcore D being played until we're down 0-2.

[Tikita]

Best tactic our guild has is to all stick together in one group of 10. First we make sure we have the Horde flag, then we worry about our flag. But since we move in a group we allways meet a few horde on the way back holding our flag, put it this way 10 Allience vs 3-5 Horde and you can guess how the Horde does. They die instantly. Try this one with Guild members and friends (It dont work with randoms, they never listen).

[lou4612]

First I wanna start by saying screw all Alliance yall suck REST IN PISS but I will give you punks one strategy out of pity..ahahah..if you have hunters make them leave their pets at the flag on aggressive for defense have atleast 1or 2 hunters stay behind.This way you have people on the frontline and people at the base at all times.When the enemy approaches the tunnels coming for the flag.. somebody yell incoming to the inside hunter flag defenders then they can set firetraps all over the flag base.So the intruder will have to fight off the pets 2 hunters and will be taking multiple fire damage they shouldnt make it out alive!This has proven successful with 5 pets at the flag and two hunters setting firetraps!

[Tenisyn]

Played alot of WSG this weekend, big fan of the double honor. As alliance, we actually had a 50% win rate. Our strat was to begin the game in a 4-2-4 set, with 4 D, 2 midfield to harrass and 4 up front to put pressure on the flag. The way it worked in the beginning was that we had the 6 taking on the incoming zerg rush, taking out 2-4 of them, and by the time the remaining six made it to the flag our defense had enough time to slow them down while the midfielders repopped. To the base the midfielders went, finished off the remaining group of horde zerg action while the 4 offense continued to head toward the flag. Once the initial zerg was shooed off, we switched to a 3-2-5 formation. The midfielders would position themselves to the left of the eastern rock to keep an eye on the horde gy, and to the right of the eastern bush to keep an eye on tunnel and ramp activity.

I'd say that the strongest tactic we did was to actually play as a team, and when our GY was starting to get full, our midfield and offense would congregate near the beginning of the alliance tunnel until we returned to full strength. This kept the horde from being able to put a great deal of pressure on the flag.

Eventually, the horde switched to an entirely defensive set up, with 9 of 10 defending their flag. The game slow a tad, so we brought another defender up to midfield, sent a mid in, and had a 2-2-6 set. It was amusing when those six broke through the horde D to get the flag out to midfield, and then the mids just provided a roadblock, allowing the flag runner to make it back home.

Teamwork 4TW :happy14:

[Muitnep]

Just be happy you can get a game in WSG....
I know at least one server where you can't.

[Diesl]

Warsong is bugged as hell. there are many ways to cheat in that dump. That's why noone plays it anymore. Blizz is aware of the bugs or hacks and don't care.. So my advice is not to go. I have seen a rogue drop the flag and pick it up 6 times in a row while being beat on and get away. I have seen pallys with there shield up and the flag.. Even seen them mounted with it... Has always been bugged or hacked on my server. But we still win 50% of the time. -UD warrior

[Zoobery]

I apologise in advance, this is going to be long, but please bear with me, its something i've wanted to get off my chest for a long time. I have played a lot of BG recently with my lvl 58 NE hunter (Bloodprow: Argent Dawn). I played a lot of wsg as well with my lvl 60 rogue (Shadowsong). I of course noticed that Alliance lose all the time and it got me thinking. Now, some of the people in my gaming clan [HH] play as Horde on shadowsong and one of them is Eyez, who anyone who does PvP on that server will have heard of, so these guys know their pvp. Ok, the point is coming don't worry. So I start discussing with them about horde's constant pwnage of BG. Heres the explanation that was given to me and some of my own thoughts.

Most servers have an alliance:horde ratio of around 3-5:1 in favour of alliance. That means that with a smaller horde population they have smaller queues for BG, and find it easier to preform raids. On alliance the queues can be very very long, and I don't know if its true, but the wait when you premake a group seems to be even longer, and as time ticks by ppl leave the raid and join as individuals. So, 90% of the time (completely guessed but probably right statistic) in AB for example its 15 random alliance versus 15 horde with a pre-made plan and everyone knowing what they should be doing. As anyone knows, 15 average spec/skilled players working as a team will always beat 15 epixed/1337 players playing as individuals, because the principal of teamwork is the same whatever the team activity is.

Which leads me nicely to my next point. Most of the guys doing pvp on horde (or so I'm told) already know what the tactics and fighting methods are. So when they enter, the leader tells them which tactics they will be doing and everyone knows what to do and more importantly, what to do if things go tits-up. Compare that to alliance. It usually takes the whole 1st minute to form the raid party and many times before today, i've still been asking for an invite, or waiting for replies to my invites halfway through the battle, so there is effectively no meaningful discussions about tactics. In my experience, most of the time at least half of the alliance team has no idea about the tactics, and start running around trying to farm hk's and take flags, well they always end up on the end for a 4 - 5 man zerg and are therefore useless to the team for up to a minute.

Don't get me wrong, its not impossible. I have been in preformed raids and raids made in there that just went well and we won, but that was only because ppl listened and followed directions. The top and bottom of it I think is that until disparities in faction population even out, or more people on alliance learn just what the hell they are supposed to be doing in there, WSG and AB will remain honour farming grounds for Horde, so theres no point whinging and screaming about it, if you want to fix it, learn how to play it.

edit: whinging and screaming comments NOT directed at OP, but at ppl who /y in the BG and in IF about it.

[Diesl]

I apologise in advance, this is going to be long, but please bear with me, its something i've wanted to get off my chest for a long time. I have played a lot of BG recently with my lvl 58 NE hunter (Bloodprow: Argent Dawn). I played a lot of wsg as well with my lvl 60 rogue (Shadowsong). I of course noticed that Alliance lose all the time and it got me thinking. Now, some of the people in my gaming clan [HH] play as Horde on shadowsong and one of them is Eyez, who anyone who does PvP on that server will have heard of, so these guys know their pvp. Ok, the point is coming don't worry. So I start discussing with them about horde's constant pwnage of BG. Heres the explanation that was given to me and some of my own thoughts.

Most servers have an alliance:horde ratio of around 3-5:1 in favour of alliance. That means that with a smaller horde population they have smaller queues for BG, and find it easier to preform raids. On alliance the queues can be very very long, and I don't know if its true, but the wait when you premake a group seems to be even longer, and as time ticks by ppl leave the raid and join as individuals. So, 90% of the time (completely guessed but probably right statistic) in AB for example its 15 random alliance versus 15 horde with a pre-made plan and everyone knowing what they should be doing. As anyone knows, 15 average spec/skilled players working as a team will always beat 15 epixed/1337 players playing as individuals, because the principal of teamwork is the same whatever the team activity is.

Which leads me nicely to my next point. Most of the guys doing pvp on horde (or so I'm told) already know what the tactics and fighting methods are. So when they enter, the leader tells them which tactics they will be doing and everyone knows what to do and more importantly, what to do if things go tits-up. Compare that to alliance. It usually takes the whole 1st minute to form the raid party and many times before today, i've still been asking for an invite, or waiting for replies to my invites halfway through the battle, so there is effectively no meaningful discussions about tactics. In my experience, most of the time at least half of the alliance team has no idea about the tactics, and start running around trying to farm hk's and take flags, well they always end up on the end for a 4 - 5 man zerg and are therefore useless to the team for up to a minute.

Don't get me wrong, its not impossible. I have been in preformed raids and raids made in there that just went well and we won, but that was only because ppl listened and followed directions. The top and bottom of it I think is that until disparities in faction population even out, or more people on alliance learn just what the hell they are supposed to be doing in there, WSG and AB will remain honour farming grounds for Horde, so theres no point whinging and screaming about it, if you want to fix it, learn how to play it.

edit: whinging and screaming comments NOT directed at OP, but at ppl who /y in the BG and in IF about it.
I am in a small guild (50) And most of the time we don't go togather in BG . Some are in instance or on a alt. So I am usually in a pick up group and we are in the same boat. Noone listens and we loose to organized Allys. There was a guy who just joined guild who said a certain Ally guild has never been beat. So we got our guys to gather went in que to see if we could beat them... We whooped there ass stupid and the new guildy said you guys are the best I never thought I'd see the day. We are not the best just organized . Team work is everything. If you got 15 people in a guild on vent like we were and playing 15 guys not on vent and not knowing whta's going on u have no shot. Find a guild who loves BG and has TS or Vent and join. simple solution

[Zoobery]

Team work is everything. If you got 15 people in a guild on vent like we were and playing 15 guys not on vent and not knowing whta's going on u have no shot. Find a guild who loves BG and has TS or Vent and join. simple solution

Totally agree, however I am keen to know which server it is where Horde are not organised and lose a lot, cos I'm rolling on that one :) Seriously though, I am only saying what horde pvp'ers have said to me as we have discussed alliance's haplessness. If thats not the case then please say more about it, but what I have heard seems to make sense to me.

[Diesl]

I am on bloodscalp. If you want to roll on that server. There are three very good alliance guilds on this server who do nothing but run BG. and when they come against Horde 60% of the time it is a pick up group and they just kill them. Now like I said when they get a Horde guild as organized then they come back to reality..... My advice is to find a guild that loves running BG and has TS or vent and join. It is amazing the differance. Just remember you can be as organized as anyone but you still have to win the fights..lol

[satarina]

i run on bloodhoof, alliance, and we can't find our head with both hands in bg's with the exception of like two guilds. why? we have no concept of teamwork. that's really all it is. i have been in AB several times where i am the only (and i mean only) one who listens to the raid leader. everyone else is off screwing around trying to cap flags with no backup, and dying (and i have had a fellow alliance player actually let me die so that he could hit the mine flag and get credit for it - and we're the good guys??). WSG is a joke - i hate it anyway, but add the allliance running around like idiots and it's even worse. heals never happen, everyone is out for their own hk's, it's just impossible. i've stopped doing AB and WSG altogether and concentrate on AV. it's just as bad, but with more ppl in there your chances of finding someone with a clue are better. honestly, everytime i come out of a bg with my alliance char, i'm so disgusted with our side i go work on lvling my hordie.

if you have a raid leader in bg who is actually trying to organize everyone, LISTEN TO THEM! this is advice for all alliance. at least on my server. the times that has happened, we kicked butt soooooo bad all over the bg, and it was great!!!!!

of course, on my server, you do have the glory-hound guilds who make their own private raids in AV because they think they're better than the rest of us... but that's a topic for another day.

[Aggac]

I think the population imbalance gives the horde an advantage. Both sides play the same number of games, but there are fewer horde players learning from these same games. End result? Your average horde WSG player has more hours in the cockpit playing WSG.

On Draenor server, we (horde side) seldom pre-form raid groups - but the vast majority of the time the first person in is forming the raid group as quickly as people pop into the starting area.

We're not all part of an uber guild but we're the next closest thing - most of us have played together many times, know each others capabilities and common strategies, and how to work together.

You very seldom hear whining or derision of other players. When you do, it's almost always someone that no-one recognizes (new WSG player - an alliance alt?). Conversation is usually short and informative:
* 3 inc top
* flag exiting GY side

We've lost to alliance groups (even been horribly spanked by them). But we win much more often than we lose (75%?) There are alliance players whom I recognize by name as worthy opponents. but no uber guild that I am aware of. I suspect that these folks are in much the same boat as we are, just diluted by a lot more chaff on the alliance side.

I can attest to one thing, though. It's not the "overpowered" shammy winning for us - I seldom notice shammies (or priests) on our side.

Lately some groups have started using paladins effectively (they finally figured out what to do with them), and the games have become a bit more challenging.

[shonto]

I've noticed the same thing as Aggc. I run into some of same 5 players in almost every WSG instance that I go into and know most of the others in passing. We have a core group of 28-9's that is purposely not leveling to rock the 20's bracket since it's easier to get a game there than at higher levels. The allies do the same thing but its rare for more than 1-2 of them to be in a game. However, if we get a good raid group going, we'll often just move from 1 game to the next.

The one thing that allows the Allies to win (when they do) on Warsong is healing. They either have several effective pallies or just know how to heal well and healers tend to be sadly lacking on the horde side.

.

[Zoobery]

Aggac, I think you've captured the point I was trying to make in about a 10th of the amount of words :). I think its time to start looking for a pvp guild.

[Eskimo Bob]

I don't know what it is. But I have noticed horde PUGs tend to stick together in WSG while Alliance PUGs go wild.

On tuesday night, 3 friends and I where doing WSG like crazy, I think we got 7~ games in, we won them all. The thing was is that we went all out offense. Checking back at the base everynow and then. A mage friend of mine is a brilliant flag ninja. He could get in there and out with the flag like crazy.

Everytime our flag was takin, a friend hunter and I (also a hunter) would move in to intercept it. Nothing escapes us hunters :happy14: . If the alliance (normaly a druid in cat form) got our flag and managed to bring it to their base, we had thiers. The mage and I would go back to our base and I would defend him. With my tracking and freezing traps, nothing got through to him.

While I defended him, the rest of the group was getting that flag back. When they did, he went and capped it.

[StryderBio]

well ive had the same exerience as most alliance until recently.

there are several capped chars for the horde on the server and they've all started to hate me and 1 other person. Mainly if this 1 shaman is in the WSG u'll never see him having a 1on1 fight because he's usualyl dead by me and a rogue (im hunter). yes it sucks when we get zerged out by 8 horde coming up the tunnel but the sad thing is, we get the flag back before they get to their base. i guess 1 shotting squishes help out when ur defending half the time. but the best bet is to find people who u work well with (usually see 5 of the same horde always as opponents and on my horde alt they even say they hate playing against me). most of the time its still a 3-2 victory or a 3-0 victory depending on the skills of people. also seems that there is a lack of horde hunters on my server, which means alot easier for alliance

[Krald]

Hmm, my horde characters pretty much win 95% of the time, that includes my only level 60 (a warrior) but my alliance characters, they win a bit but not nearly as much.

My alliance mage ages ago (before bracket changes) on 21-30 WsG just AoE'd entire rooms to death so ended up winning a lot, they can't really do **** if they are all lying on the floor dead :p. Plus I often had decoys who went first, got their attention and allowed me to charge in and IAE all the horde to death. Rarely people were smart enough to change targets and stop me before I could do significant damage.

My paladin well, he sometimes has had a hard time on 10-19 WsG sometimes. It was that though some days I'd win like 95% of games, others I'd lose more than I won. So it is kinda luck of the draw in that one. Generally I won more than lost though because my paladin just kept the enemy occupied so well, even killed ok since it's low level. Plus had some nice heals and buffs to keep everyone going.

I have to conur that all as one (10 together) seems to work best (at all levels I think too).

[Rajaswamii]

I apologise in advance, this is going to be long, but please bear with me, its something i've wanted to get off my chest for a long time. I have played a lot of BG recently with my lvl 58 NE hunter (Bloodprow: Argent Dawn). I played a lot of wsg as well with my lvl 60 rogue (Shadowsong). I of course noticed that Alliance lose all the time and it got me thinking. Now, some of the people in my gaming clan [HH] play as Horde on shadowsong and one of them is Eyez, who anyone who does PvP on that server will have heard of, so these guys know their pvp. Ok, the point is coming don't worry. So I start discussing with them about horde's constant pwnage of BG. Heres the explanation that was given to me and some of my own thoughts.

Most servers have an alliance:horde ratio of around 3-5:1 in favour of alliance. That means that with a smaller horde population they have smaller queues for BG, and find it easier to preform raids. On alliance the queues can be very very long, and I don't know if its true, but the wait when you premake a group seems to be even longer, and as time ticks by ppl leave the raid and join as individuals. So, 90% of the time (completely guessed but probably right statistic) in AB for example its 15 random alliance versus 15 horde with a pre-made plan and everyone knowing what they should be doing. As anyone knows, 15 average spec/skilled players working as a team will always beat 15 epixed/1337 players playing as individuals, because the principal of teamwork is the same whatever the team activity is.

Which leads me nicely to my next point. Most of the guys doing pvp on horde (or so I'm told) already know what the tactics and fighting methods are. So when they enter, the leader tells them which tactics they will be doing and everyone knows what to do and more importantly, what to do if things go tits-up. Compare that to alliance. It usually takes the whole 1st minute to form the raid party and many times before today, i've still been asking for an invite, or waiting for replies to my invites halfway through the battle, so there is effectively no meaningful discussions about tactics. In my experience, most of the time at least half of the alliance team has no idea about the tactics, and start running around trying to farm hk's and take flags, well they always end up on the end for a 4 - 5 man zerg and are therefore useless to the team for up to a minute.

Don't get me wrong, its not impossible. I have been in preformed raids and raids made in there that just went well and we won, but that was only because ppl listened and followed directions. The top and bottom of it I think is that until disparities in faction population even out, or more people on alliance learn just what the hell they are supposed to be doing in there, WSG and AB will remain honour farming grounds for Horde, so theres no point whinging and screaming about it, if you want to fix it, learn how to play it.

edit: whinging and screaming comments NOT directed at OP, but at ppl who /y in the BG and in IF about it.

Iv only been playing for about a week (lvl 20 Tauren druid) but iv played enough WSG to know my stuff. I am 15wins 1loss and 50 kills in that place and i have never seen one shred of team work from the horde. Basically when we go in everyone shouts for an invite and someone starts a group, during this time im buffing everyone and getting ready for battle. when it starts everyone just mobs the middle... except me. i run off to the side sneak into the enemy base and grab the flag. thats usually how it goes, its not always me with the flag but it still happens the same way. i dont know if its different on other servers but i have never seen these pre-formed groups with 15 different battle plans. BTW when it goes south for our team we just sit in the middle and i root whoever grabs our flag

[Deadites]

Okay ... Screw WSG. Alliance always -- and I mean out of 30+ runs, ALWAYS loses... ANyone got a definitive stragety to share?? I really really miss Arathi Basin after this weekend :) We do rather well there, but put us into a smaller arena and OH NO we dont know wtf to do...

We agree that 3-5 shoudl stay back and protect the flag, the others flank and run up the side, grab the flag and get back here.... What do the defense people do? They decide well, we're bored, so were goin to run around too... Horde jump down from the top usually, steal the flag, and adios. You got 10 horde there, and 10 on the way back and getting the flag back is near impossible...

Quite frankly Im pretty sick of WSG. Make it a 2x honor AB weekend!!

The best wins ive seen is when 3 defend and 7 attack... yes leaves poor defence BUT what this means is that the other side has to defend heavily or there flag will get taken. so there offence has to come cowering back...

leaving rouges an high lvls only heading on attack leaving the 3 defenders being able to cope well on there own. noticed we had to go really defencive on one game an got battered cause they just attacked non stop so we couldnt get anywhere near there flag.

7 charging into base WILL get the flag unless there really crap mind lol

[Drewstein]

The best wins ive seen is when 3 defend and 7 attack... yes leaves poor defence BUT what this means is that the other side has to defend heavily or there flag will get taken. so there offence has to come cowering back...

leaving rouges an high lvls only heading on attack leaving the 3 defenders being able to cope well on there own. noticed we had to go really defencive on one game an got battered cause they just attacked non stop so we couldnt get anywhere near there flag.

7 charging into base WILL get the flag unless there really crap mind lol
The problem... All 10 of their guys attack leaving the flag undefended. They'll roll your 3 defenders no problem. Then they'll roll the 7 of you on the return trip, returning their flag. 10>3 and 10>7 They win.

[Xal]

Heheheheh. If I had a nickel for every time I've proved that one wrong.

Silly alliance, zerging means we win!

You all charge in. Bravo, awards for everyone, yippee, etc. The solution is that the horde group splits up. One (usually the D) to engage the flagbearer, the other to escort the flag back home.

And because the alliance has gone to all this effort, they'll pick one of the two groups to engage.

If they defend their flagbearer, then the flags both enter the bases and it becomes a duel of hunters... well, assuming the guy we left as insurance in your flagroom doesn't take matters into his own hands.

If they attack our flagbearer, that's the best of both worlds. Yes, he probably drops the flag unless he's a DAMN good druid, but remember that insurance guy? He picks it up and the game continues... and meanwhile, the alliance flagbearer dies alone and afraid. Unless you brought him along.

Remember, kiddies. We grind your bones to dust and spit on your remains when you zerg in AB. WSG isn't any different.

[Drewstein]

Heheheheh. If I had a nickel for every time I've proved that one wrong.

Silly alliance, zerging means we win!

You all charge in. Bravo, awards for everyone, yippee, etc. The solution is that the horde group splits up. One (usually the D) to engage the flagbearer, the other to escort the flag back home.

And because the alliance has gone to all this effort, they'll pick one of the two groups to engage.

If they defend their flagbearer, then the flags both enter the bases and it becomes a duel of hunters... well, assuming the guy we left as insurance in your flagroom doesn't take matters into his own hands.

If they attack our flagbearer, that's the best of both worlds. Yes, he probably drops the flag unless he's a DAMN good druid, but remember that insurance guy? He picks it up and the game continues... and meanwhile, the alliance flagbearer dies alone and afraid. Unless you brought him along.

Silly man, you must lose a lot. It was the infamous PEX horde guild on my server that started the 10 man group idea. It's not a zerg, it's a well oiled raid group. All 10 will take the 5 you have in your base without losing a guy. Then on the return trip, you 5 are going to kill the flag carrier? I don't think so. Your whole group dies, you lose the flag, and your insurance guy isn't getting far with 10 organized people coming in. The only thing that can stop the 10 man group is another 10 man group. Anything else will just be face down wondering how they got owned.

[Ruefully]

I play Horde and I'll tell you our strategy.
At the beginning we rush them all together as a group in the battlefield. It is important for everyone to stay on target so they go down fast. We get the flag and defend the flagbearer on the return trip.
The problem with the Alliance we faced tonight is that they all don't come at one time to take the flag. Some stay and defend, most stay in the middle, and one or two come to take the flag.

I find myself playing defense a lot. As a hunter I make sure that track humanoids is always on and occasionally I switch to track hidden. That way I can find and kill any stray Alliance looking to quietly steal the flag. They always come in from the sides and the upper area of the base.

One of my teammates stayed stealthed in the base to take flag stealers by surprise.


Most of the time though I think success is being in the right place and the right time. Aside from that individual player skill is important. Stuns and speed reducing skills are essential. Traps around the flag are crucial. They always triggered the traps around the flag.

I'm not a PvP expert but this is what we did tonight and we didn't lose a game. And all of the battles ended with either 3-0 or on rare occasion 3-1.

[Angelab]

How about talking for reward?

Do u think AB's reward is better than WSG?

[wildsimian]

I'm new to this but week one for me on Horde/Arthas was awesome. Well coordinated groups and constant communication. Very productive.

The following week started out well, but rapidly declined. I found myself having to start groups and try to organize the thought process of the raid, which is not good because I really am still learning.

Originally I was on defense with a frost trap ... looking back Immolation trap would have been better at the flag. A frost trap would be better down the tunnel to catch the "help".

But it is difficult for the rest of us to learn without communication going on. As it is I've found very little out information out there regarding the BGs, so it's kinda of a learn as you go.

Don't laugh. What is a farm? I don't mean farming kills ... but I thought I saw the term used in a different way and I'm not sure what it means.