Arathi Basin Tactics (Battleground)

[Kyveli]

.......1st of all, I must say that I've used the "search" and didn't find a similar thread, so if there is so, please, merge it, and excuse me...

Well, I'm playing on VashJ realm, a gnome lock, 42lv at this moment... I really like battlegrounds and I play when the opportunity comes, always with the hope to win. I've played several times, believe me, and never, I mean never, alliance wins. (except once, Ohh, I remember well this time :P)

I always came up with the idea that alliance doesn't have any tactic at all, except running all over the place, like idiots, unorganized, and not doing anything, while the horde part, does everything! The score is always like 400-2000, or even worse! :ash:

So please, I would like to see a thread with AB tactics' analysis.

So far, I try to convince the raid, if there is one, (yes, we even play without raid :whistle: ) to have a defensive mode on. Capture 2 flags for sure, try for the 3rd, and never, I mean never leave a flag with noone to keep an eye on her.

I've also seen the zerg tactic, which doesn't work for me, it leaves all the flags uprotected, which is quite stupid...

And also the hanibal tactic, hordes seems to really like this one... They leave at their already captured flag 2-3 people, and then a group of 7 makes circles, attacks to the alliance flags, and takes them... (in a short period of time, the just gather all the alliance in their graveyard -stables- in a "wonderfull" continuous massacre :scared: )

[shonto]

The usually Horde tactic that I've seen (being Horde myself) is a full forward rush, running out to take the blacksmith, mine, and lumber camp then moving on to pressure the stables while leaving 1-2 at both the mine and lumber camp (people will be traveling thru the blacksmith). Everyone else goes on a forward rush to the stables (not a real object just a HK farm) and goes to help out if the Allies break thru to any other objective so you often get a 7 man zerg for assist. It works marvelously well as we keep 3 bases most of the time sometimes 4 or 5 depending on the team.

And no, this isn't a talked out plan, just how it works out most of the time. Everyone usually knows where they fit well (hunters at mill because of the lines of sight a rogue or lock at the mine) and usually plays that position.

If you can manage to control both mine and the lumber camp, you own the game. The games that have been hard, the allies have set up strong defensive positions at both the mine and blacksmith (not the lumber camp for some reason).

It's kind of dissapointing though as we often only get 2-3 games then the allies chicken out.

[Aswer]

And also (60 NE druid and 49 UD mage here) try to play as much with your guildies / RL friends, and get some way of communication. I constantly play my UD mage in BGs with 3 RL friends and we use skype (4 pax limit), then I try to be the one making the raid group so we can stick in the same group. We still work with the rest of the raid but even this complementary way of collaborating is great. We are mage, shaman, lock and priest. We've taken zergs of 10-12 alliance players out this way in a matter of 20-30 seconds. And this is still technically in pugs, cause you don't know who the other 11 players will be. One more thing, as you advance through BGs and get to know players, do some diplomacy, get to know the good ones, talk to them, add them to your friends list. After a couple of months like this, you will see the "join as group" feature as your friend. Alliance has as many means to win BGs as horde does, so there is really no reason why one should be vastly superior to the other. Now I have the luck that on my alliance server we usually win and on my horde server we usually win too. :D

Don't be a cheap mofo either, deck yourself out for BG battles properly. The rations you get with the BG factions are MUCH faster than regular mana drinks unless you have a mage with crystal water. Those (say) 10 seconds you gain are 10 seconds you won't be missing in battle / defense. Cooking is your friend. At my UD mages level I always carry a stack of +12 sta/spi food and some nightfin soup when available (+8 mana every 5 seconds). Add those in to priest/druid/mage buffs and you're flying. Have a stack of the best potions you can use always on you, healing, mana, swiftness, free action pots. Fully buffed at my current level I have just over 3k health (the mage).

If you are serious about PvP get yourself decent PvP gear WHATEVER your level. My mage at 49 has 8 items that add damage to spells. Whatever stamina or intellect I lose, I try to make up with enchants and PvP reward gear / BG faction gear. 1k+ pyro crits are happening since 47 for me in BGs. (arcane/fire). I haven't tested but I don't think I would be getting more than 1k ever without this gear.

And last but not least: BUFF UP! Everyone on a given team should be fully buffed by the others, at least before the battle starts. That can mean a subtle but important difference at the beginning of a battle.

Edit: I know this is "slightly" OT, but proper AB tactics have been discussed here and elsewhere in detail. If you want a summary: "defense and teamplay" should do it. :)

[Kyveli]

thank you for your answers... :winky47:

I would also like to add one more tactic, supplementary on the defensive way...
Leaving backforces in every captured flag, well, it's great, but you could also have, a stealthed runner (rogue, druid) to capture the unprotected enemy flags. (just doing "runs" to the flags)

Also the "skype" thing was really good, hehe...writting in the middle of the battle, takes too much time.

Creating a "friend raid BG list " is great idea too. I've started already doing this...
(the only problem is that I've collected so many "friends" for different purposes, that I don't remember anymore who I've added and for what reason! If there was a "friend list editor addon" it would be just great idea! :happy14: )

[djclaremont]

I play on the BGs as an alliance priest, and usually, nobody seems to protect our healers. Horde seems pretty good at protecting their healers. Or perhaps the alliance doesn't go for the enemy healers as much? Having your healers healing, as opposed to fighting and dying can certainly give you a tactical edge in the little battles that often develop at the resource points.

[Trepidation]

Healing healers has a negative benefit since their HP loss rate is significantly higher. If you as a healer are getting beat on you should NOT look at to survive but rather DELAY your innevatiable death. The longer people are focused on you (priest) the more chance your teammates can take them out as well. A 29/22 disc/holy spec is awesome for BG durability/effect. Nothing is more amusing than two rogues beating on you and taking them 30 seconds to kill you. While that is going on your 4 friends take out the rest of their group quickly and beat them from behind. One death (me) versus their five.

Another trick is to fight at the flag. The primary benefits are being close to stop somebody from tapping and ALSO to let them start tapping (remember, it takes time) and then stop them just before they complete. While they are tapping, they aren't doing damage...so let them.

The hanibal method is by far my favorite. We often quickly take the first three 3 then win at the 3/2 method. You leave 2 at lumber/min each...a hunter at farm and have 1 or two packs go out and cause havoc. If the other team is truely dumb you can often take the 4th and just win quicker. The key to the hanibal method is to NOT sit idle if you are not a guard. Once the fight starts winding down, get on your horse and move towards the opposites teams "RES" point. Keep them from even getting close to flag. If they can't get focused...they can't win.

Having a priest lookout at lumber mill is great....Mind vision FTW. Allows you a significant tactical advantage for figuring out where the enemy is moving towards.

Also learn WHO are the guild/raid teams that are beyond your scope to beat. You know the teams that 5-0 before you know what hit you. Once you get in...look at opposing team players. If it is a known pvp/raid guild...AFK out. Try and get PUG if you can. The new 10 minute really makes this even more true.

Start a list as mentioned above of people who you know don't suck. Creating a team is the best way to win AB. I'm on a list with another guild. I tell them when I log on. If they have an AB spot open up..I get in and never lose an AB. Tis fun.

-tReP

[Bokar]

The standard Horde method of sending one group of 5 to the LM, BS, and Mine is good, with those that fail keeping the Alliance from acting further. It works very well in the 30's range with my undead priest, fairly well with my orc warrior in 40's battles. 50's, well, they can't get in, ever.

My shaman just hit 60, and he's starting to play AB at that level, but so far they've had the worst organization I've ever seen, even compared to 20's WG. Add in his generally below average equipment, and he's lucky to get 3 HK's the whole battle, particularly if he can't get a raid invite.

[Kyveli]

thank you for your responses...

I have one more question about Battlegrounds, does anyone have understood, the "die-resurect" process?? I mean graveyards....Where you get resurected? Is there a rounding process? or the hall thing is like this...

If you die at your base, and the base is still yours(flag not yet captured byt the enemie), then you resurect at this graveyard.
If you die, and the base is not anymore yours, you will res, at the next close "your side" flag. If any, at your central graveyard...

And if you die, and insignia tacken, well then, no importance about basis, you get transported at you graveyard and you resurect only there.

Is that right? Or I'm wrong? Cause I'm not yet pretty sure why I die for exemple in GM, and i resurect in the Mill Graveyard... :ash:

[Hrungnir]

You will always rez at the controlled graveyard closest to where you died.

This means (and half of the people seem to get this, the other half are clueless) that when you are attacking an enemy point, attacking the flag is the most important thing, or you will have to kill the same people three times.

I love the sap/sheep/seduce and steal the flag trick. If it's one on one going into a control point, always do that, take the flag, and then proceed to kick their butt. Otherwise he'll rez by the time you get the flag.

[elwoodb647]

On my server, so many people seem to care much more about kills than wins. If pure honor and/or bragging rights is what your after, you can certainly get a lot of HK's, but I'm there for reputation, and winning gives a lot more rep than losing.

Specifics of "bad" behaviors:

- If you are ever operating completely alone, you're not helping your team. So many rogues stealth away and try to harass opposing teams flags. If you find one completely undefended, you can put it into contest, but you can't actually take it before the other side dispatches a group to take it back, so you haven't helped your team very much at all.

- If you aren't willing to play defense, you aren't going to win. My preference is 2 or 3 left at each node permanently, with the rest of the group working on offense and dynamically supporting on defense.

- Appropriate communication is important. If you say "OMG INC MINE NEED HELP NOW!!!!" when there is only 1 or 2 enemies coming at a reasonably well defended flag, you're just wasting the time of your teammates, because you're not in jeopardy. If you say "inc mill" when what you actually see is 8 enemies moving together towards the mill, you probably aren't going to get the response you need to be able to hold the mill. Use numbers, use facts. (i.e. "Shaman and warrior inc mill from south" is better than "2 inc mill" which is better than "inc mill" which is better than nothing.)

- Sometimes waiting (as opposed to charging headlong into battle) is the better strategy. If you have 2 nodes with 3 defenders each, and the opposition has the other three nodes with 5 defenders each, you have 2 choices:

1.) wait a full res cycle, gather your forces all together, and assault a single node 9 vs. 5.

2.) spread your forces out either by trying to take 2 nodes at the same time or not waiting a full res cycle so that half your team is dead or out of combat all the time. These options lead you into a 4.5 ish to 5 battle.

The fundamental is that the defending team gets the benefit of the graveyard, so with even numbers (5 on 5), the defending team is usually going to be able to hold. My thinking is its a lot better to go 9 vs. 5 and win swiftly than trying to go 4.5 vs 5 over and over and over again hoping to wear them down.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen a group of 3 or 4 of my raid-mates dive headfirst into 5 defenders at a flag, when another 3 or 4 helpers were only 15-20 seconds away from being there to help. So instead of 8 on 5 and winning, you fight 4 on 5 twice and lose. Boggles the mind really.

- Finally, don't feed the zerg. If your opponents have 8-10 defenders at a node, even if you had your whole team together you probably can't take that node because of the graveyard. If they have 8-10 attackers coming at a node with 3 defenders, don't call for help. You're going to lose, and calling for help assures that they will be able to kill all of the helpers when they come in. If there are 8-10 in one spot, that means the rest of the zone is not very well defended. Go somewhere else NOW. Don't say, "I'll go to the other place after I've tried this", because you have to wait a res cycle and that gives them time to reposition. Run away from the zerg before you die; just move on and take what isn't defended.

[Bokar]

If you are ever operating completely alone, you're not helping your team. So many rogues stealth away and try to harass opposing teams flags. If you find one completely undefended, you can put it into contest, but you can't actually take it before the other side dispatches a group to take it back, so you haven't helped your team very much at all.

I would dispute this. Any time a base is not controlled by your opponent, regardless of time, is a help. There are times when I've taken my warrior off to the gold mine while nearly everybody is fighting over the Farm, and found it completely unguarded and claimed it. And waited a few minutes before 3 or 4 showed up to kill me and take it back. It still helps my team.

[Seeo]

This is a little tactic I used with my old guild, it worked very often, can't say 100% of the time, but when it worked, they horded did NOT stand a chance in hell. I wrote this up really quickly, because there really is no guide, I created this in my head, told the guild what to do, kept calling out orders over Team Speak (new guild is on Ventrilo) and it was very very effective in curshing the horde... I repeat, it didn't work 100% of the time, more like 80% of the time, but even when it didn't work, we still normally won.

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Arathi Basin Tactics:

1st node:

• Once the gates are opened 1 (Rogue, Druid or Night Elf) will take the Stables while ALL OTHERS proceed to the Lumber Mill. Once this first one has been taken, he will leave, no guards yet, we don't even want to give them the opportunity to get there.
• When the Node Taker has claimed the Stables, he will proceed down the lower path beside the Lumber Mill, and meet the rest of the team at the bottom of the Lumber Mill path (horde side) and report anything they see (maybe a group coming head-on with the initial node-taker. Or # of people at the BS)

2nd Node:

• No one stops at the stables besides the a Rogue, Druid or Night Elf. ALL OTHERS will proceed to the Lumber Mill and Take it as furiously as possible, while 1 (warrior or pally) will immediately jump on this node whether its taken or not. We can do without horde rezes here... If it's clear then Grats. BUT Keep moving!!
• Once cleared (if it needs to be cleared), we do NOT wait till it has been taken by the pally or warrior, all those that are not stationed there, leave AS SOON as it is cleared down the path (horde side).
• 3 Will stay there, 1 should be a Pally. Stealth/Shadowmeld/Prowl when and if you can. All should dwarves... because the only horde that could get up that will would be rogues... and stoneform will help tremendously... best team 1 hunter, 1 rogue and 1 pally

3rd Node:

• 1 word: 12 man Kamikaze. Basically RUN IN! KILL KILL KILL!! Take down the priests first!! This is going to get ugly and some of us will die. But ALWAYS make the Node the priority, even if it's already taken by the horde... a warrior preferably should take this one if there's fighting going on.
• As soon as we get in the base, 1 person must SOLELY focus on taking the Node, even if there's fighting going on, because if the horde owns it, we can kill them all day long and they will keep respawning in the BS GY... So take it, even if you're interrupted 3 times, we'll be 12 over there so you'll get it eventually and send those horde that are NOT rezzed yet, to the next nearest GY, which will Probably the Farm.

4th Node:

• Keep the 3 at the Lumber Mill, and rest at the BS, covering Both entry ways but most on the LM side since the Mine side is further away and will have more time to react. And STRONG eye out for the Lumber Mill Path. Make the horde Dance, meaning, standing at the lighthouse path, assault any that get too close, don't let them regroup too much. Do this till our entire team has regrouped at the BS, minus the 3 at the LM. unless we are only missing a MAX of 2. We should have 12 available raid members. Wait for a good horde attack so that we can send as many as we can to the GY, Then immidiately dispatch 5 of our own to the mines...
• Take 5 to the mines to see the situation there... if you can take it, take it. if you can't, let everyone know.
• The 3 in the LM might have to come to the bottom of the path in order to give the illusion that we are more than they think.
• Since we'll have fair sized group that just went down the Mine path on the HORDE side, they probably wont' try anything on the BS from that side, so all BS stationed guards will stay very close to the LM side with maybe 1 guarding the Mine-Side bridge, keep an eye on the LM guards too, if they are attacked, go in, Kamikazee the ****ers, DO NOT LET THE HORDE GAIN ANYTHING!!!
• IF WE TAKE THE MINES!!! Everyone that was in that team will head back up the path... Tell EVERYONE the mines are taken...

5th Node:

• This probably won't happen, but we have done it before... When the guys from the Mine come back up they will run STRAIGHT for the FARM to attack it from that side, Along with everyone from the BS that is not fighting, and everyone from the LM... This is where the fighting will be crazy, all I can say is we have 1 shot at this... Push them back, aim to fight around the Node, because again, that Node MUST be taken before they wipe... the sooner it's taken, the sooner they'll start rezzing in their own GY... everyone must fight close to the node, most importantly though, not too close, we don't want to encourage AoE's... but Push them towords their GY.
• If we have all 5, it's a matter of getting to the entrance of their base as fast as possible all while rounding them up. Then just staying there 15 VS. (Ammount that rezes) This is when the healers should really think about healing and NOT melting faces. Mana up whenever it's possible. If any slip through our lines they become hunter targets, and hunters will have to be the ones to chase them down.

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