Horde cant win WSG?

[5zigen]

Whats up with this? Doesn't wsg seem a bit imbalanced? You have fear ward, blessing of freedom and absurdly fast druids on alliance, and all you have on horde is the druid...

Its absurd. only won 1 wsg against a very poor pug out of about 20, just due to the fact that paladins are 1) invincible, and 2) able to cast blessing of freedom and cleanse and 3) able to hammer of justice flag runners. Which makes them better at taking the flag AND defending the flag.

All shaman have is frost shock and earthbind (and crappy ghost wolf). All of which are practically completely negated by a druid, so you have a druid thats immune to fear, poly and snares running at mount speed....

This is ridiculous.

[Bokar]

It's been a while since I've done WG as anything but a low level paladin, but in my experience the Horde side does well, sometimes too well. 30-39 AB matches, my undead priest won nearly all of them, though he turned 40 the last time I played him. On the other hand, at 60 you get a lot of players who never played before, never learned how..

But my paladin in WG seemed less useful than my warrior was, with absolutely no way to affect an enemy that was running from me and more than 10' away. At least warriors Charge and Hamstring at low levels, with Intercept later on.

[cyradis2003]

Whats up with this? Doesn't wsg seem a bit imbalanced? You have fear ward, blessing of freedom and absurdly fast druids on alliance, and all you have on horde is the druid...

Its absurd. only won 1 wsg against a very poor pug out of about 20, just due to the fact that paladins are 1) invincible, and 2) able to cast blessing of freedom and cleanse and 3) able to hammer of justice flag runners. Which makes them better at taking the flag AND defending the flag.

All shaman have is frost shock and earthbind (and crappy ghost wolf). All of which are practically completely negated by a druid, so you have a druid thats immune to fear, poly and snares running at mount speed....

This is ridiculous.

I have been in about 10 WSG and Horde only lost twice (we were low lvl though so no travel form). The totems are a huge help if placed guarding the flag. Earthshock stops casting, purge eats pally buffs. The problem may be that everyone on your teams are going their own ways and trying to top the score boards instead of trying to win for the team.

If there is no leader you need to step up if you aren't satisfied with the way it is going. Shammie guards flag, 1 rogue + 1 other guard Shammie. Hunters/mages take the middle and stop flag runners and those chasing your runners. Warriors rush opposite base with at least 1 rogue and 1 healer being guarded in. We would try to have a druid hiding along the main way back to enemy camp to report movements and to root the flag carrier if he got through also. That is how our team usually does it but anyway you set it up will be better than no teamwork at all. Work out a plan of attack, cover contingencies and put it in motion.

Even if you just group everyone and ask "Who is defense and who is offense?" it will help since then everyone has a clear goal in mind and will not be running up and down the field chasing their tails. Try it out next time and see if it helps, do it enough and you will learn how to make the teams work together and even start building your own dream team to start racking up the wins. with diplomacy and stratagy you could be the WSG general your server seems to be missing :bigclap:

[det]

From what I heard when my Alliance Paladin friend played WSG - this is where the "nerf Shaman" cries came from as Horde was winning this mostly.

I really only visited WSG twice yesterday 'cause everyone was there and no AB open. First time we got totally owned by the best PvP Ally team that is out there and second time it was PuG vs PuG which Horde won.

All these BGs might be a lot different when the are not in the lv 60 range. The best team of lv 40ies might still lose againts a PuG of all lv 49s.

On my server I hear "Alliance can't win BGs" a lot. Mostly this is true for any lv 10-59 BG. It really changes at 60.

[Herald of Doom]

Yup. As far as I know on my server Horde "pwnzorz" alliance really really hard below lvl 60, but at lvl 60 alliance is way better. I have done dozens of 19 and 29 BG and I've only lost when we had a really crappy PUG group (50% of the people below 24, me being the only char above 26 etc etc) Shammies rock for bringing the flag back at 29 :) Ofcourse, my highest lvl char ever is 45 so I haven't experienced any 60 wsg, which is where the alliance is apparently boss.

HoD

[5zigen]

I have been in about 10 WSG and Horde only lost twice (we were low lvl though so no travel form). The totems are a huge help if placed guarding the flag. Earthshock stops casting, purge eats pally buffs. The problem may be that everyone on your teams are going their own ways and trying to top the score boards instead of trying to win for the team.

If there is no leader you need to step up if you aren't satisfied with the way it is going. Shammie guards flag, 1 rogue + 1 other guard Shammie. Hunters/mages take the middle and stop flag runners and those chasing your runners. Warriors rush opposite base with at least 1 rogue and 1 healer being guarded in. We would try to have a druid hiding along the main way back to enemy camp to report movements and to root the flag carrier if he got through also. That is how our team usually does it but anyway you set it up will be better than no teamwork at all. Work out a plan of attack, cover contingencies and put it in motion.

Even if you just group everyone and ask "Who is defense and who is offense?" it will help since then everyone has a clear goal in mind and will not be running up and down the field chasing their tails. Try it out next time and see if it helps, do it enough and you will learn how to make the teams work together and even start building your own dream team to start racking up the wins. with diplomacy and stratagy you could be the WSG general your server seems to be missing :bigclap:

I've played ALOT of WSG this week. Like, i said, 20 yesterday. Any decent team knows how to deal with totems. It takes 3.8 seconds at the most, and they really only help slightly on defense, but are a bit more useful on offense once you have actually capped the flag.

I dont see how anyone could really consider shamans overpowered in wsg at 60 especially at this stage (considering the state of druids and hunters).

I've run it with between 5-6 guildies, and the organized groups on alliance side destroy us so hardcore it isnt even funny. Literally...

It really has nothing to do with any sort of leadership. It's the fact that you CANT stop paladins and druids, while they do a pretty good job of stopping you with their stuns. VS an unorganized team its fine, but vs a organized team that has an actually strategy there is literally NOTHING you can do. you cant stop the palas because they have blessing of freedom and bubble, and you cant stop the druids because they have the blessing and they also are druids... So literally nothing you can do will slow them down. They are immune to fear, poly and snares and if you run behind them purging, you have to purge at least twice, which takes at least 3 seconds, and at best you can get 1 frost shock off by the time the get to the end of the tunnel, at which point they will just travel form at 60% run speed and take off any slows they have anyway....

It's just unbeatable.

Sure shamans are cool with earthbind totem at low levels, but by level 60 its basically a non issue.

[Jenkins]

On my server its the complete opposite - Horde are always winning, it seems the Alliance never win on WSG despite the Alliance numbers.

[Dynafrack]

Alliance PUGs rarely win BG games in my server. Alliance on Lightbringer is full of knuckleheads. I'd say that includes me for not finding a good team....

[OutThisLIfe]

In my server (Alleria) we rarely win. Though we do, horde usually are the ones owning the place. We've got a lot of close games but that's not the point. I've only won once and all other times I got a really bad team that didn't even help the others when they were in 'distress'.

[degnar]

Maybe at level 60, and maybe an organized group, but otherwise...

Alliance never win. Usually they are lucky to even cap a flag. AB tends to be more competetive than WSG. Of course, this is just my experience at < 60, and vs. PUGs.

[Your Average WoW Player]

On my server (Scarlet Crusade US), Horde kicks butt in BGs in general (most especially in WSG, In terms of percentage wise, I've won more ABs then WSGs), and I'm beginning to think I see why.

I think on my server, Alliance tries to Muscle it's way through. In WSG, that doesn't work as well. You need a stratagy.

Muscleing isn't the best in AB, but it works better then in WSG, if you have 15 49s vs. a spread of levels, then in AB, you can kill everyone, quickly nab the bases, and then camp out at the Stables/Farm depending on your side.

If you kill everyone in WSG, you can nab the flag yes, but in the time that you are returning to your base, one person can slip in, take your flag, and just flee, hide, and then if you drop the flag, they can take it. Horde is amazing in those situations on my server.

I guess it depends on the server.

[Schnorres]

horde > alliance in warsong
horde > alliance in arathi basin (PUG)
alliance > horde in arathi basin (lvl 60, rank 10+ only)

horde usually wins from 10-59. Why?
->Mass zerg with 7+ using earthbind totems cant be stopped.

Druids can be stunned and easily killed if they are not in bear form. Still, they are the best chars in warsong, but nothing can really stop a horde mass zerg.

AB is a different thing, the horde is better a first for getting the flags due to the shaman instant damage, but good paladins (like rank 10+) are hard to kill and getting more usefull than shamans with their variety of defensive options.

[thazandril]

Whats up with this? Doesn't wsg seem a bit imbalanced? You have fear ward, blessing of freedom and absurdly fast druids on alliance, and all you have on horde is the druid...

Its absurd. only won 1 wsg against a very poor pug out of about 20, just due to the fact that paladins are 1) invincible, and 2) able to cast blessing of freedom and cleanse and 3) able to hammer of justice flag runners. Which makes them better at taking the flag AND defending the flag.

All shaman have is frost shock and earthbind (and crappy ghost wolf). All of which are practically completely negated by a druid, so you have a druid thats immune to fear, poly and snares running at mount speed....

This is ridiculous.

Roflmao you're soo funny.

1. Shaman's can do ghost wolf form I don't see the paladin's doing that with flag :o (although paladins now can increase the speed on foot) Oh and earthbind totems and grounding totems vs casters.

2. It is quite a true stereotype, but the tactics for alliance are worse than the tactics that the horde. I have played many BG's and I have even played some where the general chat was NEVER used to say anything throughout the 25 mins or so that it lasted for :o I have lost plenty of times 2000/0 although only won once 2000/0 (well, set teams ftw with ventrilo).

[Tuplad]

Hmmm ... I started my first alliance char, and let me tell you, I LOVE IT !!!
First, 10-40, we kept loosing, and everytime, I was the one with the most kills, I've got to rank 4 in 1 week, I think Im 5 already(my server is down atm and turned 40 yesterday).

But just dont cry if you get beat by a rofldin in WSG or AB, if you're unstoppable in the wild, be happy.

Then, a few things, Druid have 40% speed, that's right !! 40% !! same as shamans, and they ARENT immune to fear rofl, I got beat up by a 36 warlock on level 40, fear, bolt bolt dot dot, fear, bolt bolt bolt, fear, bolt bolt bolt, fear, dot dot dot. And that's pretty much it :happy14:

Anyways, alliance on my servers rocks now, from 10 to 39. Havent played as 40 in AB/WSG coz it's pointless, I have no use there at 40.

[5zigen]

Ugh if you dont bg at 60 dont bother commenting. It is a literally unbeatable tactic.

Facts:

1) Alliance has a fear immunity in dwarf priests

2) Druids DO practically run at mount speed (see pvp gear)

3) Druids can sprint indoors as a cat with the flag

4) Druids are nearly immune to snares naturally (shapeshifting)

5) Druids in travel form cant be polied

6) Paladins are also essentially immune to snares with blessing of freedom and cleanse

7) Travel form is instant cast

8) Druids have a non dispellable combat regen and more health / armor than a warrior (in bear form)

9) Feral druids cant be sapped

It's an unbeatable tactic that isnt mimicable by horde side. Earthbind totem is so easy to get rid of, easily resistable and its pulse rate is slow enough you can run through it without being hit about 50% of the time. Frost shock only works 3 times and earthbind totem will NEVER help you even catch up to a druid...

Furthermore, Ghost wolf isnt NEARLY as good as travel form. 3 sec cast (reducable to 1 with talents) dispellable, doesnt remove snares, not immune to polymorph... yeah they go the same speed with pvp gear but sorry, travel form is so far superior that it isnt funny...

[GenXCub]

Well, one can make comments based on the different brackets of WSG because the dynamics of the group change so drastically.

The 10-19 bracket is very interesting because I see things as being on a more equal footing. Hunters don't have their aspect of the cheetah, shamans don't have ghost wolf, druids don't have cat form and feline swiftness/dash, mages don't have blink to get out of snares. Essentially, the fastest movers are rogues with Sprint. The owners of DPS in 10-19 are hunters. If a side has 5 hunters, game over. Alliance will have a slight edge because of gnomes being able to get out of FN/Roots, but it's not too big of a deal. The horde PuG's always (90%+) win the alliance PuG's on Silver Hand in the 10-19 bracket. Especially after Nuggles graduated to 20-29 :)

[northernlights]

To the OP....

You're a tool. If you want to have this meaningless discussion take it to your realm forums where it has a small shred of relevance.

[Dynafrack]

to add to my previous post -- other side of the coin (low level bg)

I played ~ 20 games in the 20-29 wsg bracket over the past 4 days and horde only lost once (only because the one pug loss had maybe 2 competent players).

As a shaman I can be anywhere on the map in a matter of seconds for flag intercept; frostshock + earthbind = gg

alliance isn't overpowered at all. if anything it is equal. let me add that it is only equal when you have players that actually know how to play their classes. if you're teamed with a bunch of morons it's gonna seem imbalanced.

[Stormfierce]

I see much more stupid ppl in alliance then horde, maybe that's why alliance suck most of the time.

[Schnorres]

I made an undead rogue on horde side to play warsong 10-19.
I simply gave out some tactical commands like "stay together", "full zerg now" or we worked with a decoy and I ran the flag home.
We won 9/10 matches and people told me that they didnt win many games before.
Tactic is a huge issue in ws 10-19, due to the lag of running druids/shamans.

Horde seems overpowered there due to Earthbind totems, zerg for the win

(people play untwinked on our server)

[5zigen]

To the OP....

You're a tool. If you want to have this meaningless discussion take it to your realm forums where it has a small shred of relevance.

Wow if you want to flame somone go to the realm forums.

This is a serious complaint and it isnt relavent to comment on bg's pre 60, especially in this thread as its a different subject.

It is a literally unbeatable strategy... immunity to snares >>> snares. Totem killer mod >>> totems and diminishing returns >>> frost shock.

Come back and comment once your 60 and every druid has the 4 peice set bonus and every paladin has blessing of freedom and the improved cooldown talent...

[twoswords]

I dont know 5zigen, I have done a lot of WSG (and AB) as Horde, and I would say that my win-ratio is over 90%. There are so many things and tactics you can use to negate fast moving enemies or outmaneuver your enemi in fights.

To me it more seems you have a personal problem how to stop a druid and let that go into a "horde cant win" mentality.

[5zigen]

I dont know 5zigen, I have done a lot of WSG (and AB) as Horde, and I would say that my win-ratio is over 90%. There are so many things and tactics you can use to negate fast moving enemies or outmaneuver your enemi in fights.

To me it more seems you have a personal problem how to stop a druid and let that go into a "horde cant win" mentality.

Are you talking about 60's WSG?

And there IS no way for a character without a stun to stop a druid...

[twoswords]

No, I am talking 50-59 bracket at the moment. (I got an alliance 60, but most of my PvP is as Horde) And I agree that off course you cant stop a runner if you dont have any stun ability, but there are alternatives like Slowing poison, charge stun, intimidationg shout, fear, hamstring and so forth. This is where the tactic comes in in choosing the right people to defend/retake flags.

[5zigen]

No, I am talking 50-59 bracket at the moment. (I got an alliance 60, but most of my PvP is as Horde) And I agree that off course you cant stop a runner if you dont have any stun ability, but there are alternatives like Slowing poison, charge stun, intimidationg shout, fear, hamstring and so forth. This is where the tactic comes in in choosing the right people to defend/retake flags.

You dont understand. You cant stop runners on alliance with that stuff they have too many anti snares. hamstring almost works because you can charge or intercept and spam it, but thats just a warrior. and you have to do it each time a druid changes forms and when changed the run at mount speed. And if theres a pally around they will just go immune to it... or any snare. against a halfway organized team you really cant do much.... Alliance also have a massive advantage on defense as well but it doesnt seem anyone considers that.

[degnar]

You dont understand. You cant stop runners on alliance with that stuff they have too many anti snares. hamstring almost works because you can charge or intercept and spam it, but thats just a warrior. and you have to do it each time a druid changes forms and when changed the run at mount speed. And if theres a pally around they will just go immune to it... or any snare. against a halfway organized team you really cant do much.... Alliance also have a massive advantage on defense as well but it doesnt seem anyone considers that.

So what would you suggest? I'll buy your argument that it is impossible to win vs. some lvl 60 teams. But how would you fix it, without imbalancing the other levels? Lord knows, before 60 most horde don't need any help... we usually steamroll the alliance.

[Bokar]

As it happens, I got into WG last night with my undead rogue, 54, for the first time since late Summer or so. Spent a nice hour or so guarding the flag alone while the rest of my team was in midfield. Mostly Cheap-Shotting this one level 50 druid who kept sneaking up in Cat form, and taking half his health before the stun wore off. Some of the others were tougher, the mage who would jump down and Frost Nova without knowing where I was, but rooting me anyway, and once or twice a paladin who was Cleansing himself almost non-stop as he ran, removing poisons, Frost Shocks, etc. He got away from me, but didn't make it past my teammates alive. And most annoying, a 57 NE rogue who Sapped me 3 different times, even though I was also stealthed..

We didn't have any team members in the upper 50's that battle, but we won in the end.

[5zigen]

So what would you suggest? I'll buy your argument that it is impossible to win vs. some lvl 60 teams. But how would you fix it, without imbalancing the other levels? Lord knows, before 60 most horde don't need any help... we usually steamroll the alliance.

Pally shield doesnt make pallys immune to snares / slows
shapeshift doesnt remove snares
Possibly remove the ability to carry the flag in travel form.
Increase the mana cost on blessing of freedom as well as the cooldown.

[GenXCub]

Pally shield doesnt make pallys immune to snares / slows
shapeshift doesnt remove snares
Possibly remove the ability to carry the flag in travel form.
Increase the mana cost on blessing of freedom as well as the cooldown.

Instead of not carrying the flag in travel form, why not just make it succeptable to all the things ghost wolf is affected by?

Perhaps it would be okay to keep shapeshifting as a way to get out of snares if there was a talent related to it.

Do you remember why they modified shapeshifting to get out of snares in the first place? (was it 1.6?) That may shed some light on that.

[starlitsky]

Whats up with this? Doesn't wsg seem a bit imbalanced? You have fear ward, blessing of freedom and absurdly fast druids on alliance, and all you have on horde is the druid...

i finally made friendly rep on WSG, and i can tell you this for sure: horde has druids too ;) fear ward isn't that overpowered since it's a racial skill, and undead has WoTF (and most games i'm in, there were more undeads than dwarves). Blessing of Freedom is purgable by shammy/priest, and Free Action Potions also do the trick.

All shaman have is frost shock and earthbind (and crappy ghost wolf).

Here are some examples of how the horde won the last couple of WSG games. Priest hugging flag carrier to dispel. We run down the tunnel, shaman drops earthbind ... practically everybody chasing us down the tunnel is slowed down. people came up the tunnel .... tauren in front warstomps, we run past them. sometimes a warrior manages to intercept. Priest shields flag carrier, warstomps. we run up our tunnel, shaman drops another earthbind ... that's about it.

I can't tell you how many times we shielded the shaman so he could turn ghost wolf and run away during combat. it actually works out very well, because nobody can mount when they're in combat.

All of which are practically completely negated by a druid, so you have a druid thats immune to fear, poly and snares running at mount speed....

blessing of freedom AND fear ward are purgable by both priest and shammy. from what i remember, non-epic mount speed is 160%, while druid run speed is only 140% outdoors. get on your mount and ride after the druid :) blessing of freedom is only 10 seconds at most, fear ward only works to absorb 1 fear effect. if it doesn't work the first time, try again. a lot of it is good positioning and group work.

This is ridiculous.
if you ask me ... horde warstomp + earthbind (AoE slow effect!) greatly tips WSG to our favour. the most important thing about WSG is to stay together, and work together. once you've got a group that has that down, you'll have some amazing games :)

[zkajan]

Ugh if you dont bg at 60 dont bother commenting. It is a literally unbeatable tactic.

Facts:

1) Alliance has a fear immunity in dwarf priests

2) Druids DO practically run at mount speed (see pvp gear)

3) Druids can sprint indoors as a cat with the flag

4) Druids are nearly immune to snares naturally (shapeshifting)

5) Druids in travel form cant be polied

6) Paladins are also essentially immune to snares with blessing of freedom and cleanse

7) Travel form is instant cast

8) Druids have a non dispellable combat regen and more health / armor than a warrior (in bear form)

9) Feral druids cant be sapped

It's an unbeatable tactic that isnt mimicable by horde side. Earthbind totem is so easy to get rid of, easily resistable and its pulse rate is slow enough you can run through it without being hit about 50% of the time. Frost shock only works 3 times and earthbind totem will NEVER help you even catch up to a druid...

Furthermore, Ghost wolf isnt NEARLY as good as travel form. 3 sec cast (reducable to 1 with talents) dispellable, doesnt remove snares, not immune to polymorph... yeah they go the same speed with pvp gear but sorry, travel form is so far superior that it isnt funny...
Fact:
7/9 of your points are about the druids.. which, last time i checked, both sides get

:rolleyes:

[Trooogdooor]

k here is how alliance win WSG..... they get 3 pallies and a druid at least....rest of the team doesn't matter.....pallies cast blessing of freedom on the druid at intervals or whenever it gets purged by a shammy.....if there are no shammies purging the sht out of the flag runner ( who is a druid in travel form) you have no chance at all of catching it unless you have the luck of some evil mages whith ZhC and ToEP who can 1 shot the flag runner with a combustion+pyroblast( these are both ridiculously hard to get)

this is why alliance are gay....and why making purge more expensive is BS :D

LEARN 2 PLAY NUBS and quit complaining

[Trooogdooor]

Fact:
7/9 of your points are about the druids.. which, last time i checked, both sides get

:rolleyes:

druids aren't my problem..... neither are pallies....Blessing of freedom is my problem.....

[Gackimuus]

Well, I can only speak from my experience, but thus far in the 30 - 39 bracket on Azjol-Nerub, the Horde wins more often than not. I say with some pride that we have given them some hard fights (taking over an hour to make the last flag capture, for example), and we've pulled off several victories, but the Horde has a very strong lead.

We were pretty well organized in a lot of these games, with good communication, but the Horde won anyway in many of them. (I don't count the one where there were 5 Alliance and 10 Horde, because NOBODY is winning at 2 to 1 odds -- the Horde would lose just as fast as we did). I've observed a couple of things that seem to have a bearing on their victories, however.

One thing is their use of druids. In fact, I'd say that most of the captures were made by druids; and we didn't have a single druid in any of our groups. All we could do was hope to slow the druid down enough so that we could kill them before they got out of the snares and went off at 2 zillion MPH to victory. So, I know where you're coming from with that.

Horde racials do help a bit .... they're not the be-all and end-all, but they are a good boost. With three tauren on the attack, you can keep everyone locked down with Warstomp longer than you might think. The orc's stun resist is a big one also, in fact one of them resisted my Hammer of Justice at a very crucial moment and that basically allowed a capture. Trolls got short-changed, but the other three races have powerful racial abilities.

Levels. I've noticed that in a group, Alliance characters are all levels in the range -- 30 - 39 for example -- while the Horde leans heavily towards 37 - 39. Having 380 levels against, say, 340 can make a difference when the chips are down, even just in terms of the health of a flag carrier.

Lastly, I've noticed that the Horde is good at keeping the pressure up. You kill them and they're right back like a fly at a picnic ;-). Eventually, it wears you down, and the defense gets less coordinated. I'm not sure why the Horde is better at this than the Alliance, because a lot of the people I was grouped with weren't pushovers, but just attack after attack after attack eventually cracks the defense. All it takes is one slip-up, one Hammer of Justice a little bit too late, and the flag is out the door for the last time.

Anyway, those are my two coppers on the situation. I understand what you mean, but it definitely isn't one-sided -- in fact, I would say exactly what you're saying about the Horde's druids.

[Trooogdooor]

Pally shield doesnt make pallys immune to snares / slows
shapeshift doesnt remove snares
Possibly remove the ability to carry the flag in travel form.
Increase the mana cost on blessing of freedom as well as the cooldown.

don't nerf the flag carriers jsut the blessing of freedom.....and don't nerf the shapeshift snare removal.....druids are broken as is

[starlitsky]

druids aren't my problem..... neither are pallies....Blessing of freedom is my problem.....

blessing of freedom prevents roots, frostbolt, frostshock, earthbind ... from what i understand, it does not prevent: polymorph, hunter traps, stuns (warrior charges, cheapshot, sap, intimidation), disorient effects, like scattershot, deathcoil ...

the only one that i think druids can get out of easily is polymorph. actually, druids can get rid of most of the slowdown things ('cept earthbind) by changing forms or going into travel form anyways ...

also keep in mind that FREE ACTION POTIONS do the following: Makes you immune to Stun and Movement Impairing effects for the next 30 sec. Does not remove effects already on the imbiber. BLESSING OF FREEDOM, on the other hand, does this: Places a Blessing on the friendly target, granting immunity to movement impairing effects for 10 sec. Players may only have one Blessing on them per Paladin at any one time.

[Trooogdooor]

I'm a sham and I have ToEP as well as Nature allignment crystal.....which makes it so I ahve 1800 dmg Chain lit crits as well I'm 30ele/21 resto right now with 28% crit on my lit spells so killing the flag runners is not my problem......they die really fast.....it's jsut that they can run away b4 I get to kill them....that pisses me off crazy like

[Recluse]

ha ha i dunno what realm your on but alliance never win wsg 50-59 on my realm or lev 60 that often. maybe they just noobs on my realm but i have only lost 3 games in WSG in 2 months and i go in everyday. No **** seriously alliance just sit back and defend and think they can win ....:thumbsup:

[Notsuthi]

Ok so, I play on cenarion circle..horde...and i used to play on alliance side until i noticed...all these alliance peeeps..act..like...there...5year olds and of course we suck'd at every wsg 10-19..20-29- 30-39 40-49 50-59 60 was a diffrent storry same with AB+AV so i switched to horde.. im 47atm and so far ive enver lost more then 4wsg's in my whole time playing..i cant belive alliance is good on your relm i mean ally on are relm there just..little kids.. exspecially night elfs

[Dynafrack]

I figure alliance is the "prettier" side. It attracts kids and people who play for reasons that don't include teamwork and strategy. This could be the reason there's a 2:1 Alliance ratio on my server and also why they whine like little girls with a scraped knee. I was in a WSG last night with a bunch of uber lvl 60s and all they did was piss and moan. Felt like I was in an episode of Romper Room.

[5zigen]

It's much different at 60 than at any level before and I stand by my claim. The game is beatable when alliance dont have a druid + paladin or 3 paladins, otherwise it is not winnable for horde.

You simply cant snare a druid because of the shapechanges dispelling roots and snares. As a shaman you cant hope to stop a druid, as you frostshock - they shapechange, you earthshock again they shapechange again, if youre even in range to frost shock again it will last 2 seconds and subsequent times they will be immune. Further, you have to try and cast purge at the same time due to Blessing of freedom...

As a warrior its slightly better but you will still run out of rage. Charge, hamstring - shapechange, intercept hamstring, shapechange and by then your intercept is cooled down and you are not in range for another hamstring due to the fact that the druid is running at mount speed.

Furthermore, the fact that alliance have an unsnarable, nigh invincible combat healer, which can purge slowing effects constantly makes it even more impossible... While Hamstring is slightly better vs paladins it is really ridiculous.

When alliance actually PLAY they have an unbeatable strat and that isnt right. Any sort of fear or root on you and you will NEVER catch up to the druid, but any sort of fear or root on the druid has no effect due to cleanse and shapechange.

[rutty]

It's much different at 60 than at any level before and I stand by my claim. The game is beatable when alliance dont have a druid + paladin or 3 paladins, otherwise it is not winnable for horde.

You simply cant snare a druid because of the shapechanges dispelling roots and snares. As a shaman you cant hope to stop a druid, as you frostshock - they shapechange, you earthshock again they shapechange again, if youre even in range to frost shock again it will last 2 seconds and subsequent times they will be immune. Further, you have to try and cast purge at the same time due to Blessing of freedom...

As a warrior its slightly better but you will still run out of rage. Charge, hamstring - shapechange, intercept hamstring, shapechange and by then your intercept is cooled down and you are not in range for another hamstring due to the fact that the druid is running at mount speed.

Furthermore, the fact that alliance have an unsnarable, nigh invincible combat healer, which can purge slowing effects constantly makes it even more impossible... While Hamstring is slightly better vs paladins it is really ridiculous.

When alliance actually PLAY they have an unbeatable strat and that isnt right. Any sort of fear or root on you and you will NEVER catch up to the druid, but any sort of fear or root on the druid has no effect due to cleanse and shapechange.

I've seen plenty of Druids in the Horde. Surely the counter-argument also stands. Both sides can play lots of Druids.

[amgyn]

Aliance always wins on my server in wsg 10-19 and 20-29 .. most of them are in a guild called <Twink ftw> .. so go figure..


this changes completly in the 30-39.. :x

[Thelorax]

Will of the Forsaken is a nice tool to escape any mind roots cast on you, can make them good flag carriers... after level 40 Druids are very catchable as flag carriers so they aren't the WSG gods they were in the levels before.

I have played in lots of really really disorderly BGs, both AB and WSG and we still win all the time. Horde is just cooler and therefore God lets us win all the time.

[Hateblade]

Don't forget that nice armor set bonus they get for playing in Arathi Basin. The Defilers armor, I believe it is. I think you have to be revered for this set piece. Increases a Druid's overall speed while in travel form. You think it's hard to catch them normally, try to catch one running faster than your lvl 40 horse. Riding enchants included. :thumbsup:

[5zigen]

Don't forget that nice armor set bonus they get for playing in Arathi Basin. The Defilers armor, I believe it is. I think you have to be revered for this set piece. Increases a Druid's overall speed while in travel form. You think it's hard to catch them normally, try to catch one running faster than your lvl 40 horse. Riding enchants included. :thumbsup:

Uh, try the 4 peice bonus of the fairly easily obtainanle champions armor set.

And yes, at 60 it becomes MUCH harder to catch druids in travel form as they have nearly infinite snare removal.

And yes as I have addressed over 10 times in this thread, druids ARE available to both sides, HOWEVER, Alliance have the ability to make them FEAR IMMUNE AND THE ABILITY TO MAKE THEM SNARE IMMUNE. This can happen up to once every 14 seconds. ON TOP OF THAT, they can be constantly cleansed as well. On top of that the class doing the former 2 things can stun chasers (up to 2) for 6 seconds AND make themselves immune to everything.

In the end all it takes is for the druid to get out of the tunnel, unless you have more mounted people waiting for it outside. HOWEVER, taking the flag takes as few as 4 people (2 paladins druid and priest/hunter/mage). Leaving a large number of members for backup midfield or at the alliance tunnel.

HORDE HAVE NO STRATEGIES LIKE THIS.

Is this hard to understand. I hear so much "oh but horde have shamans with an AOE snare and travel form!" which is uninformed nonsense. Travel form may be awesome in 20-29 wsg but at 60 its a joke, and on top of that, earthbind totem is the WOST aoe snare in the game.

Lets look at a few of the aoe snares. Frost trap (non dispellable, chance to aoe root with talents), cools down with feign death at 30 seconds. Blast wave, Aoe damage and snare, high cooldown but since its a dazed effect as far as I know it is not dispellable. Frost nova, another high cooldown aoe spell with a root effect. This one is dispellable by the one class horde have who can dispell. Cone of cold, medium cooldown aoe snare, once again 3 aoe snares on the same class make for alot o snaring even though all skills have timers. This is dispellable as well, but again thats a priest / potion / trinket only thing. Peircing howl, warrior talent on 0 cooldown with a NON-dispellable aoe snare. Compare these abilities to earthbind. 15 second cooldown, HIGHLY resisted (dont ask me why) removable by ANY class with a single attack, and dispellable on top of it all, by the 2 alliance classes with a dispell.

As for the argument "well shamans have frost shock and its totally uber! it kills druids while it slows them!" Wrong. Once again compared to the many other slowing skills it is not the creme of the crop. You get 3 frost shocks before somone becomes immune, and the duration is affected by DR's. Meaning 8 seconds, 4 seconds, 2 seconds immune... On top of that its a 20 yard range. For assault and defense, any of the afformentioned classes is better. Hamstring, while requiring melee range is not affected by DR's, not dispellable and has no cooldown. Concussive shot has a 40 yard range, is not dispellable and has a chance to stun with talents on a medium cooldown. And then we have frostbolt, while it has a cast time it has no cooldown and a long snare duration as well as a huge range.

ALSO note that the mage and warrior aoe snares can be used as instant snares whereas earthbind can NOT be used as an instant snare for a runner... Let alone a runner druid...

FURTHERMORE, all of these non magical non curse snares can ONLY be removed by an alliance class. So why the shaman is easily replacable (you are better off with any of the afformentioned classes, mage warrior or hunter) the alliance only class provides 2 abilities that no horde character can replicate, non magical snare removal and snare immunity. They can also do this all while immune to everything for 15 seconds.

Furthermore. Any dwarf priest makes any player a better runner than any forsaken could ever be. End of story. Fear ward > will of the forsaken. While dwarf priests arent too common this is another shining ability of something the alliance has access to that horde can not replicate.

To recap, alliance have SEVERAL assets horde do not. These assets compound the problem of druid runners at least 2fold. Shamans are not worthwhile in WSG, as they can essentially be replaced by 3 classes easily. Sure, if alliance play like fools all bets are off, but in a semi organized match alliance easily win.

[Hateblade]

Uh, try the 4 peice bonus of the fairly easily obtainanle champions armor set.

O.o That's the one. Guess you do learn something new every day :grin: . I hate chasing alliance druids.

[Grendo]

HORDE HAVE NO STRATEGIES LIKE THIS. Free action potion, purge/dispel, Warstomp even? Nevermind class abilities both sides have that you mentioned to slow down a runner.

While I agree a paladin+druid combo isnt easy to counter, Horde have several more offensive capabilities that level the playing field quite a bit, killing flag followers with better efficiency instead of simply running (ie shamans).

A paladin is only useful until the druid gets outdoors, at which time the paladin falls behind (runspeed). A shaman can achieve the same effect of giving the druid running room using any method you mentioned and a possible warstomp.

In most 60 games Ive played in, getting the flag out isnt the problem, for either side really.

Its retrieving yours after both are taken that becomes difficult.

[CMK]

Warlocks with a Felhunter are excellent for flag runners. Devour can take away any Pally blessing as well as PW:S, just like purge. Deathcoil and fear can tear a druid apart. Fear ward? Okay, fear again.

Spell lock for healers (provided there's only one or two) and you have a very dangerous foe.

[Bryant]

(people play untwinked on our server)

BLASPHAMY! :wink:

[CreslinHellscream]

Haven't read every word of this so I might get something wrong, but looking at what the guy said originally, I take it your whining about pvp at lv60. Well I play Horde, and I'm lv60, and I'm in a raiding guild, and we Pvp sometimes. And when we do, we usually win, the only times we struggle is when we're versus another team kitted out in epics. But even then its usually a pretty fair match.

So.. I don't see what your going on about. When we pvp against a none pre-made non-guilded alliance team, we usually smash them to pieces. When we play against another guild it can take a good hour or so but its still pretty feasible to win. I dont see this "unbeatable" tactic you seem to think alliance has. I think your just making it all up :P

Also - Horde have druids too, that can do all the same stuff as Ally druids can, cept they don't have fear ward or blessings right? Well ignore blessings, blessings are pointless against any team with a shaman or two that know what they're doing, because they just get INSTANTLY purged. So blessings aren't a valid argument. Personally I think druids on both sides are crazy in WSG, but as long as both sides have a good feral druid, its pretty fair :P

[Aerath]

You can usually tell which side is going to win just by looking at which druid is on either end.

Of course, there's a couple other factors too, but a lot of it boils down to the expertise of the flag runner. And, naturally, the better flag runners tend to be stuck in premades anyway.