A request.

[Kyras]

Browsing through the forums, I find that maybe 10% of them are worth taking the time to read. I'm not sure why everyone is so fascinated with their own thoughts on a subject, when it's obvious that they spend about as much time thinking before they post as they do unwrapping the mint after dinner as they saunter out of the local Olive Garden.

Don't post just to post on the forums. Don't type just to type in the game. And don't speak in person just to speak. This phenomenon of "look at me, look at me!" results in a lot of pointless threads, pointless responses, and cluttered ideas.

Speak when it has merit. Chew on a thought for a bit before you blurt it out.

Please.
Razumihim,
Dorf Priest

[klago]

Who pissed in your cornflakes?

[mesonm]

Browsing through the forums, I find that maybe 10% of them are worth taking the time to read.

...and this one contributes to the 90% (your words, not mine) that aren't worth reading...

If you don't want to read, don't open your browser...It's a secret trick I learned long ago.

[Trepidation]

Even though 90% of the post maybe less than ideal, every once and a while one of those 90% posts contain something of real genius that most of us would have missed. I'll take all the crap and make compost and grow me some corn to make cornflakes for you to have somebody piss in your cornflakes.

[Shellar]

/sigh
/ignore Kyras

[rvbarton]

Browsing through the forums, I find that maybe 10% of them are worth taking the time to read. I'm not sure why everyone is so fascinated with their own thoughts on a subject, when it's obvious that they spend about as much time thinking before they post as they do unwrapping the mint after dinner as they saunter out of the local Olive Garden.

Don't post just to post on the forums. Don't type just to type in the game. And don't speak in person just to speak. This phenomenon of "look at me, look at me!" results in a lot of pointless threads, pointless responses, and cluttered ideas.

Speak when it has merit. Chew on a thought for a bit before you blurt it out.

"Hi pot, Kettle calling... you know you're black"

:banghead:

[Jerk]

LOUD NOISE!!

(sorry, just wanted to be involved in the "don't post look at me threads" look at me thread)

/leave

[Skahr]

Kyras..then get a life and dont read every single post, esecially if u know its gonna be the "90%" ones. and i dont know what race you are because i dont believe there is a "Dorf"? sorry im just rambling makeing the 90% you love so much =D. cya

-Skahr

[Kyras]

I didn't realize that the right to post meaningless drivel just for the soothing comfort of hearing your own keyboard clacking was a sacred tradition that dare not be criticized.

Trep posted:--Even though 90% of the post maybe less than ideal, every once and a while one of those 90% posts contain something of real genius that most of us would have missed. I'll take all the crap and make compost and grow me some corn to make cornflakes for you to have somebody piss in your cornflakes.--

My argument is stanced upon the fact that I completely disagree with that statement. A large quantity of posts does not result in the occasional genius post. That is the equivalent of with enough time and monkeys, eventually one of them will reproduce Shakespeare.

On the contrary, taking someone like yourself Trep, or Moopy, you see a consistent flow of quality posts. Each post may not be an epic game play change, but it had some rational thought and some need to be filled by the post. They aren't random and laced with false information.

As long as someone continues to not challenge their thinking processes, isn't content to churn through new ground, and instead opts for the road more easily travelled, it continues the cycle of tired, inconsistent information and ignorance.

mesonm, on the contrary, if I didn't want to read, I wouldn't have posted in the first place. It is not from a lack of wanting to read, but rather for a thirst of having something worth reading.

Rvbarton, I would like to challenge you to look through my posts on subjects, and find one that is what I am referring to. While I see your argument that this post is 'worthless', I certainly don't consistently post just to fill the threads. I have posted somewhere in the vicinity of 75 posts, having been a member since December 2004. So could you please elaborate on how I post randomly for my own sake?

90% was probably a pretty aggressive estimate in my original post, in reality I would say that 60% are mediocre, and 30% are just drivel. Obviously this is going to differ on the population of the boards, for instance, back in the day, the warrior forums had a large group of great posters and thinkers.

I'm not saying that each post should be "important". I'm saying sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt, to paraphrase Mark Twain.

Razumihim,
Dorf Priest

[mugumbo]

a whole page has been wasted proving the OP's original gripe to be true. we are all guilty of it at some stage.

The amount of similar and totally useless build variations posted makes my head hurt, but I come back daily - as do the rest of us.

So who cares.

[Stigg]

Kyras,
First off, you realize you are adding to that 90% crap pile.
Second off, I'd say 85% of the posts are for individual questions, like the one i posted about What wand would be good for a lvl 51 mage? I got some great replies and went about trying to get the hex wand. Did a rogue want to look at that post? No. Did a non-caster want to look at that post? No. Did another lvl 51 mage want to look at that post? Probably. So I'd say with the post greatly helping me out, it also may have helped out 100 other lvl 51 mages looking for an upgrade from their lvl 30 mage quest reward wand. My point is, sure 90% of the crap you look at isnt helpful to you. But it is helpful to somebody else.

To tell you the truth, every post I have ever read (besides the occasional ads for selling gold) I am positive has been helpful to some other player out there. Every post except the one you just posted. Congrats! Your a first! If you are having a problem with all these posts, there is a search button. Find what you want and leave.:idea: It seems like from the amount of time you have finished reading all the posts you read, I could have leveled 3 chars to 60. :thumbsup:

[Nakh]

Totally agree with you Stiggs

And besides Kyras, nobody twist your arm to come here if you want real trash forum try www.worldofwarcraft.com forums.

Another useless post on the pile ,woot :wink:

[Kyras]

Nakh- No one twisted the arm of the other posters and made them post wrong information or offer imbecile opinions which are nothing more than vague ripoffs of some other goofball repeating the same wrong information.

No one challenges these thoughts. Instead they incorporate them in their own belief system, and further spread the faulty information.

I see a consistency in the responses that basically says "if you don't like it, leave." This goes a long way to showcase what I mean. I wasn't referring to this specific forum, or even WoW forums in general, or even internet forums. I'm referring to every form of communication. People seem to care more about whether or not they talk than if what they have to say actually helps with the conversation.

On that note, I would like to offer a further point, Stigg. Since I was referring to people caring more about having something to say rather than what they say, obviously individual question posts would be exempt from this scrutiny. Could you illuminate where in my post I said I wanted every post to be catered towards me? I enjoy learning immensely, and read many forums. I find lvl 51 wand upgrades for mages just as fascinating as I do +defense gear working against pvp crit chances.

My original post was not about grammar, sentence structure, spelling errors, people not using search functions, or any of the other little things people do. If I was to summarize my original post into a sentence, it would be the last line of my post. "Speak when it has merit. Chew on a thought for a bit before you blurt it out."

I fail to see how this concept is particularly offensive. Perhaps those of you offended smell the realization that you're guilty of being chickens, sitting in the henhouse, engulfed in the rhapsody of your own cluck.

Furthermore, I would like to apologize for not making myself clear. Instead of 90% of posts, I should have said 90% of replies, since it was conversation I was referring to rather than points of address.

Razumihim,
Dorf Priest

[poweroflove queen priest]

Who pissed in your cornflakes?
THANK YOU!!!

[Kyras]

poweroflove queen priest, thank you. I could not have prayed for a more adequate sacrificial lamb to fall upon my lap. You have displayed the characteristics to a perfect tee, in reference to the posts and their content.

I like to think of it as the 'Napolean Dynamite' effect. You have no idea why what I "dared" post was truly offensive, but a vague sense of uneasiness and a general disagreement with my tone and assuming a paranoid stigma of aired superiority?

So you quickly labeled me an asshole, and decided to hook up with captain Klago over here in the process. But if I asked you why you wanted to say that, why what Klago said was so perfect that you wanted to exuberantly thank him, you couldn't tell me if you tried. You'd mill about, offering vague suggestions to steer off the point and begin attacking me for my viscious and bodacious claims against your mental fortitude. In much simpler terms, of course.

Perhaps it is not your fault, and I am being an asshole, and am expecting too much of you. If this is the case, I have behaved ungentlemanly, and I apologize.

Razumihim,
Dorf Priest

[twoswords]

So who then decide if these posts are useless or not? Maybe some find a post useless while others find something of merit in the very same post. If you wish for a "quality control" of sorts you are then on a perilios road of controlling other peoples freedom of saying what they want, to whom they want, when they want.

The only rules we have for posting now is what is put up by the Admin/Mods and they are enough. Follow them and everyone is allowed to post no matter how long, short, "dumb" or insightful posts.

[Trepidation]

It would be quick simple addition to this forum in a nice if/else statement

if (subforum == priest && poster == tRePtehbadazzp0st3rofd0000m)
post = TRUE;
else
post = FALSE;

pretty simple I think....

[Burntmeat]

Kyras, you need a chill pill... And please stop using those big words, i cant understand them. And tbh, you´re not getting anywhere with griefing other people on this forum.

I see a consistency in the responses that basically says "if you don't like it, leave." This goes a long way to showcase what I mean. I wasn't referring to this specific forum, or even WoW forums in general, or even internet forums. I'm referring to every form of communication. People seem to care more about whether or not they talk than if what they have to say actually helps with the conversation.
So you wanna change the world, why start at a Priest forum?
And since you´re the only person complaining about the quality, where does the problem lie?... I tend to NOT READ posts i dont want to read.

[Metatron]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e154/richardcurtisse/dumbkid.jpg


And that should be the end of that!

(Sorry! Just been dying to use this picture all day and knew some moron somewhere would deserve it!)


BTW, got my priest to 17 and am loving it! Hardcore lock that has stepped over to healing and can't get enough of it. Lock is on hold while I lvl my priest. Nothing beats the feeling of saving your party from instant death due to some funky healing skills going on. She is going to be getting a lot of attention!

[Stigg]

Metatron!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Great post! (offensive sure, but still hysterical)

Kyras you seem to be one of the people you hate. You write things just to see yourself write. Nobody cares what you have to say, we are all just writing to bash you and i feel we are succeeding or else you wouldnt try to retaliate. You claim that you never said "I am only talking about forums" in one of your past posts. This is true, but why talk about real life on a gaming forum? We put ourselves in a world where we are free to say what we want, act like we want, and do what we want. Sure people are more outgoing in games than in real life. I don't know you, I dont know anybody in RL on my server except my brother. Just like I do not know a single one of you. I will post what I want. Am i as outgoing in RL? Not really. Dont try to claim you know the first thing about us in RL when the only interaction you've had with us is on forums. Hell who knows, Metatron could have been born from two retarded parents and all his friends are mentally challenged. Are you going to call him a jerk for putting that picture up there? I sure as hell wont. You dont know anythign about him, the same way you cant say I talk just because I want to talk.

Did I post all of that for a reason? Nope. Just wanted to hear the wonderful sound of myself clicking. :thumbsup: But I'm glad I just wasted 45 seconds of kyras' time!

[Lalaust]

I will let this image speak for it self.

http://www.purpursolhatte.dk/i/panser.jpg

[Amiral]

personally, I dont see what's so funny about the pic metatron posted...

[klago]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e154/richardcurtisse/dumbkid.jpg
I see that and raise you this:

http://sts.synflood.de/dump/fun/normal_teh-suck.jpg

[Stigg]

Sorry klago, metraton still reigns supreme.

I love how a topic as boring as what the OP generated can get such wonderful pictures to go along with it.

[Xaero]

blah blah blah

http://images.xaero.us/photos/forum/macro_stoppostingcat.jpg

Try posting on the offical forums for truely worthless posts.

[Gloam]

Everyone has different abilities when it comes to communication. Some people are fairly adept at expressing their thoughts in writing. Others are better with the spoken word, and still others communicate best through their actions.

Just because someone doesn't write to the standard you set for yourself, don't discount what they have to say so easily. They may be trying to make a quite valid contribution, but just don't know how to express themselves in writing. Sometimes it is simple ranting, but even that helps. It helps that person get out whatever is inside, and in time and with practice, they will get better at epxressing their thoughts.

Maturity is another factor. We all aren't the same age here. We have contributors from 12 to 72 (I'm guessing of course, but I have come across players in their early teens and those past 60.). One can't expect a young teenager to express themself as clearly as someone in their 30's. And I've seen adults go on rant's I'd expect from an 8 year old, but not an adult.

We are all different. We share differently. Nothing you can do about it but learn to deal in your own way, as it looks like you are.

=)

[Kyras]

Gloam, thank you. I think you're the first person to at least post something that wasn't a direct result of some defense mechanism. While I don't inherently agree with what you're saying, I see your argument, and certainly respect your opinion. I don't feel that age, however, has too direct a result of your ability to criticize a thought before you champion it. I'm 22, at least for the next couple of weeks before my birthday, but I certainly don't think like your average cast member of Real World.

Without exhausting the subject, I'd like to point out that I realize I speak with a concise vocabulary, and that my writing style is certainly more professional than some, but that isn't what I'm referring to. I don't inherently 'want' people to be eloquent. That's icing on the cake. I just want people to think a little bit before they pass something off as "right".

Stigg, please offer me a post where I attempted to retaliate? To answer your question of "why bring up RL in a gaming universe", it's because it correlates to the original topic. To put it simply, the problem of peoples apathy towards expressing themselves well extends beyond just forums. Conversation is omnipresent in our culture, but a forum is one of the mediums that allows for a discussion (and I use this term lightly, after seeing how this thread ended up) to take place.

Ultimately, I find that this has resulted in a sort of catch-22. On the one hand, I have surely provoked the ire of the local village, and everyone knows how Frankenstein turned out. An iconoclast drifter, for those of you so stubbornly proud of your own ignorance, and whom didn't keep those particular Cliff Notes.

The most ironic thing is, though, is that you apparently feel like you're the ones laughing here, poking the caged tiger with sticks, when the reason your laughing is your ability to protect your right to be...well, stupid. So pat yourself on the back. Truly, I feel a round of toasts is in order.

Razumihim,
Dorf Priest

P.S. Props on the image. I haven't seen that one in years.

[Metatron]

So you've moved on from arguing on the internet to insulting people on the internet? Gratz! You making good progress! And yes. Literacy is nice and elequency is nice. No need to insult people who don't use it. Climb down of your horse and stop looking down your nose at everyone. Bad attitude to have and quite condescending.

[EphemeralIntelligence]

Despite what most of you have said, I've found this thread both amusing and interesting. Kyras puts forwards some very good points and they're only reinforced by the fact that quite a few of you just ignore them or try to pass them off as something cocky. However, he really should have expected a reaction like this and have realised that arguing in the manner he is at present would only generate more aggro (yes, it is a term outside of WoW).

It seems, upon closer examination, that everybody here is human. As such, it means that everybody posts for a host of ulterior motives. Kyras is right about the lot of you, but he's also making a comment on general human nature and in this way, about himself. When anybody reads posts like that against them, they feel the proud little part of them wanting to poke back. Despite your allegedly superior psycological position, you're still part animal, just like the rest of us.

I'd also say that if you want people to take your agruments more seriously, use words most would understand. The finer intricacies of the English language are all very well, but they're not much use when all they do is make people scoff you off as an arrogant bar-steward. Using such vocabulary, along with calling people "ignorant", is like still punching someone after they're unconcscious. The only person you're serving is you.

To tell you the truth, every post I have ever read (besides the occasional ads for selling gold) I am positive has been helpful to some other player out there.

You've obviously never met kc :smiley:.

[Baboon]

My current problem with this forum is that there aren't enough posts. I want to read everything about what people found out on the test forums. I don't want to respec 8 times to get an optimal build in 1.10. It took me almost a week to get on the test server, stay on it, and get my toon to walk in the proper direction when I pressed E.

Now, I want to post how my 21-26-4 build did, but according to the OP I'd better not try that because there won't be enough brilliance in that topic.

[Kyras]

Ephemeral, thank you for your comment. But one thing I would like to point out, if I may.

"The finer intricacies of the English language are all very well, but they're not much use when all they do is make people scoff you off as an arrogant bar-steward"

You state this as if I write it for them. When in reality, I write it for people like you. Nietzsche once, after being asked about the difficulty and the level of nuance of his writing, and how it prevented so many people from enjoying and understanding his very beautiful and revolutionary ideas, told them that he would never write any simpler. If they can't understand it, then they don't deserve to.

Razumihim,
Dorf Priest

P.S. Baboon, way to miss the boat.

[Baboon]

Ephemeral, thank you for your comment. But one thing I would like to point out, if I may.

"The finer intricacies of the English language are all very well, but they're not much use when all they do is make people scoff you off as an arrogant bar-steward"

You state this as if I write it for them. When in reality, I write it for people like you. Nietzsche once, after being asked about the difficulty and the level of nuance of his writing, and how it prevented so many people from enjoying and understanding his very beautiful and revolutionary ideas, told them that he would never write any simpler. If they can't understand it, then they don't deserve to.

Razumihim,
Dorf Priest

P.S. Baboon, way to miss the boat.


Man you're such an asshole. Go back to your philosophy books.

[Shellar]

/sigh
/ignore Kyras
/smile
/unignore Kyras

It seems that I have misjudged you, after all. Your initial post left me convinced that you were a malicious forum troll, rather than an honest (if somewhat untactful) seeker of truth; a pleasant surprise, indeed! :smiley:

As for the actual subject of your request, it is not the accuracy of your observation that is so heavily disputed, but the negative judgement that you've rendered. Indeed, the vast majority of these forums' (or, indeed, any public forums') content is disorderly, illogical, cluttered and generally not given much thought. However, this is not a bad thing, once one realizes that the primary purpose of these forums is not to provide an opportunity for a rational and objective exchange of information between individuals, but something completely different:

Communal bonding.

As Gloam has already pointed out, we are a very diverse community. The differences in our ages, genders, cultural and ethnic backgrounds, education levels, socials classes, belief systems, and other personal traits make direct communication a difficult endeavour - in essence, we are a group of total strangers who may not have a single common interest besides WoW. By exchanging friendly banter about WoW-related subjects, we gradually bring down the barriers between us; in doing so, we cease to be strangers and become a community. As any anthropologist will tell you, this behaviour is deeply imprinted in the human nature, and is common to all known cultures.

This explains the overabundance of attempts at humour, the prevalence of 'free association' patterns over strict logic, the frequent lapses into off-topic discussion, the ever-present references to popular memes, and other 'illogical' and 'unreasonable' traits that facilitate the bonding process. People are actually expected to conduct their conversations in the aforementioned manner; while the communication is chaotic, it is an ordered kind of chaos. :smiley:

In fact, the social penalties for breaking the rules of conduct of the informal communication are almost as strict as those for their formal counterparts. Cracking jokes and making idle chatter in a courtroom marks one as immature fool (not to mention that it's a good way to get a hefty fine); demanding that bar patrons use impeccable vocabulary, speak one at a time, and compose their speeches carefully marks one as pompous idiot (not to mention that it's a good way to get a couple of broken ribs).

Of course, both types of communication are equally important for the continued existence of the human society. However, in our case, the problem is complicated by the nature of WoW; since it is a form of interactive entertainment, most people tend to approach it in a relaxed and non-serious manner. While this makes communal bonding easier, it can be fairly frustrating to those who, like you, prefer a more rational and structured approach to discussion.

This leaves you with three possible options: Submit to the majority, assume an openly antagonistic stance, or try to reach some sort of compromise. Incindentally, the latter option is endorsed by the most respected members of the community (/salute moopy), who can make risky jokes while maintaining an aura of dignity, or temper their serious statements with a touch of self-deprecating irony. :wink3:

-Shellar.

P.S. Nietzsche's life was full of pain and misery, and ended with a mental collapse. A dangerous example to emulate.

[Caldrak]

/salute Shellar

Well said.

[moopy]

This leaves you with three possible options: Submit to the majority, assume an openly antagonistic stance, or try to reach some sort of compromise. Incindentally, the latter option is endorsed by the most respected members of the community (/salute moopy), who can make risky jokes while maintaining an aura of dignity, or temper their serious statements with a touch of self-deprecating irony. :wink3:


Damnit. Now I can't post until I have forgotten the above. You've made me far too self-concious with that sort of flattering nonsense. Now I can't ramble on about my PvP adventures at the weekend without over-analysing the post, and trying to make it conform to this lofty ideal, argh!

Thank you for the kind remark. You've found a way to shut me up, which is rare. Rare and temporary. Please imagine an emoticon for manic laughter at this point.


P.S. Nietzsche's life was full of pain and misery, and ended with a mental collapse. A dangerous example to emulate.

I read a very interesting article on cognitive dissonance in modern society recently- how it was necessary to fool yourself to remain happy. Yes, "ignorance is bliss" did seem to come into it. To paraphase the last part, "there are people who make accurate, unbiased judements based on observation and available evidence, and assign values accordingly. We call these people clinically depressed."

Make of that what you will.

[synjin]

I'm saying sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt, to paraphrase Mark Twain.

Razumihim,
Dorf Priest

<Mark Twain>We are all erring creatures, and mainly idiots, but God made us so and it is dangerous to criticise.</Mark Twain>

[Kyras]

Touche. =p

Razumihim,
Dorf Priest

[Kyras]

Shellar, I find that your post actually helps redefine my point of view, and articulates an entire substructure which had not been brought to light before in the conversation.

It is precisely communal bonding I am referring to, in fact. The last thing I want the forums to turn into is convuluted meanderings. Exactly as you said, we have a wide spectrum of experiences and educations in this board, and controversial agenda laced conversation would be a volatile combo, one that would result in too much confusion and ultimately agression, I fear.

However, in this shared location, we have the ability to communicate across the planet. What more commands brotherhood than that? Do not mistake me for a communist, even I am not that idealistic. But I do think that we could hold ourselves to a higher standard in the gravity of what we feel confident saying. This is a gaming forum. There is entirely too much ambiguous information floating around that hasn't been tested. I myself am guilty of not contributing to the problem, but I do take what I have to say seriously, and researched.

Razumihim,
Dorf Priest

[Nakh]

Very constructive subject indeed. And to come back to the point different culture, i'm one of them. My primary language is french and i have sometimes hard time reading your post Kyras, take more time than normal etc. But at first you seem arrogant but now it turned in a quite interesting way i will be sure to look for further development on this subject.

[Stigg]

Oh god where to begin:
Kyras: You are grandiloquent. Grandiloquent to the point where you no longer are saying anything of importance. Your first post raised a lot of posts, whether they were helpful or not. Now it seems you are in fact writing just to write.

It is precisely communal bonding I am referring to, in fact. The last thing I want the forums to turn into is convuluted meanderings. Exactly as you said, we have a wide spectrum of experiences and educations in this board, and controversial agenda laced conversation would be a volatile combo, one that would result in too much confusion and ultimately agression, I fear.

However, in this shared location, we have the ability to communicate across the planet. What more commands brotherhood than that? Do not mistake me for a communist, even I am not that idealistic. But I do think that we could hold ourselves to a higher standard in the gravity of what we feel confident saying. This is a gaming forum. There is entirely too much ambiguous information floating around that hasn't been tested. I myself am guilty of not contributing to the problem, but I do take what I have to say seriously, and researched.

All that could be summed up like this: We all come from different backgrounds. I want to see facts not opinions.

So why then did you write those 15 lines? Becuase you can. This is a "gaming forum." This is where we can "communicate across the planet." Your original post was about the 90% of crap on these forums. You say that you think we could hold ourselves to a higher standard in the gravity of what we are saying... Why? Have you tested this game in all possible manners? Many of us do things in the game that we find impressive. Maybe nobody else knows about it. If you want somebody to know about something, a gaming forum is the best location to say it. For those people that want to know what the best build for a PVE Warrior is, this is the place to find it. Has anybody tested this to be the absolute best PVE warrior ever? No, not in the slightest. This build has way too many variables. The shield, the sword, the trinket, etc. What the build is, is a general outline of what one person, maybe more, have found through various respecc's and testing to be their favorite PVE build for a warrior. But i contradict myself. Maybe somebody that has never played WoW logged onto www.worldofwarcraft.com, looked at the talent tree for a warrior and picked random talents and submitted them here. What happens then is a lvl 60 warrior sees that post and replies, "This is crap, nobody listen to him. Those 4 points in Improved Battle Shout are not necessary." So then it is pointed out that nobody should follow this guide. Is that original post crap? Yep! Is the second post crap? Absolutly not! It is somebodies opinion. Somebodies opinion that matters.

Kyras, you also do a wonderful job of not getting any help on your posts. The few people that do agree with you, you make sure to discredit them. But that comes with the ability to be anonymous. Its kind of like you are about to get shot by a bullet when somebody pushes you aside right before the guy pulls the trigger, then you tell him "a tighter fist would have made the push faster, thus saving me by a larger margin."

So my question is are you gonna tear apart the Frech Nakh?

Ill stick to editing his post for myself: But at first you seem arrogant but now it turned into more arrogance.

[sasja]

I love this thread! Kyras, you're hilarious! I can't say I don't agree that people could think (and sometimes search) a little bit longer before they post in general. That often facts and particulars are more interesting than vague, general opinions.

But in the very post where you bemoan this state, you yourself is more guilty of it than most people! You don't give a single concrete example or give any constructive criticism. It's all just a generally waved about raised finger, completely uninformative even to the people you're trying to address. If you wanted to improve those people, you need to convince them with arguments and examples of their faults. There's no reason to assume that they'll mend their ways because they read someone on the net who wanted them to. Don't talk down to people you're trying to help, especially when they don't know that they need your help yet! If you really want to solve the problem instead of adding to it, you need to dig a little deeper and do your legwork.

For a fantastic example of how you can succesfully do what you tried but miserably failed to do, check out Huzzah’s Guide to Not Posting Your Inane C#$p (http://forums.worldofwar.net/showthread.php?t=344007&highlight=huzzah). Informative, helpful and (not involuntarily) hilarious.

[Kyras]

I see your point Sasja, but I don't think my post needed singular points to be raised, that would result in direct confrontation. On the other hand, I find that the level of said problem is relatively omnipresent. There is no need for me to point a finger, but rather to raise an exclamation.

The entire problem stems from the fact that people took the implied tone of my original post, and noticed something I thought was excluded; my frustration.

My post was not voluntarily designed to be criticism, directly. It was merely a plea. The additional posts were mere further explanations of my opinion.

Stigg- in order for me to do what you requested, I would basically need to give 'props' to the people on my side of the fence. This would increase the argument side of this issue, rather than resolve it into a discussion. I'm not here to sling mud, but rather to (hopefully) provoke issues from people.

And for the last time, my original post was not about "crap" being posted on the internet. It was not about fluff posts. It was not (directly) about stupid responses.

It was about people not taking the time to "think" before they post. Knee-jerk responses to topics that don't deserve knee-jerk responses. "That build isn't 31/20 build, therefore it's ghey", "Everyone knows grinding 10-60 is the best/fastest way", "Everyone knows questing 1-40 is the fastest way!", "Everyone knows spirit is the end-all stat for priests", etc.

Instead of allowing people to explore combinations, test theories, and push the envelope, we use the "approved topics" to slam them down. This is not in reference to build post #341342 which is obviously inferior because they decided to randomly place their first 10 talent points. I am in no way saying that non-conventional = better. What I am saying is that people take speculation as accurate, and then use said aphorisms to SLAM someone else for not knowing the obvious. When in fact the obvious is nothing more than lazy conjecture. They're just repeating what they heard on the playground of Azeroth today. Everyone knows the toilet really can swallow you up if you're not fast enough to get outside, right?

Sasja, I am in complete agreement that the world does not change itself, at least not in constructive ways typically. I also completely agree that if this was a genuine attempt to cajole people into behaving a certain way, that a bright happy tone, littered with smiley's and exclamation points would be much more effective. You catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar, as the saying goes.

But the original post was made in a moment of agitation, after a rough day, part of a rough week, wrapped inside a hellacious month. It was a rant, without the comic fury of a comedian, but rather the annoyed desperation of a by-stander.

And lastly, I don't have the perky optimism to change people. This post, while a request, was not built upon hope. Consider it the exasperated shriek of a housewife, belaboring to her children about how they never put up their toys, knowing all too well she'll be picking them up tomorrow. I suppose I should apologize for my cynicism.

Razumihim,
Dorf Priest

[Stigg]

/yawn Im tired of your rants.

[Hateblade]

I was wondering where this thread went.