Faerie Fire, combat stats / usefulness

[Yrkoonia]

Hi fellow gamers,

Instead of adressing the druid forum with this question I'm hoping that there are a few number crunchers in this forum that might help me clear out a few things about the druid debuff Faerie Fire.

How useful is this spell in a 40-man raid ?
(let's asume there are 5 rogues, 5 hunters and 5 warriors pummeling the mob)

-505 armor does what ?
(does dam.reduction work the same for mobs and players?, is it linear? etc etc...)

Is it freaking good or perhaps a waste of mana ?

help...

Yours
/Yrkoonia, druid

[Wintrow]

Try looking at it like this:
For a warrior, adding 1000 armor to 5000 armor means he'll live 1.20 times longer than without. If you take away 1000 armor from an enemy's 5000 armor he'll live 0.8 times "longer" --> that is, shorter.

I don't know how much armor mobs have at high levels, but if they have 8000 armor and you're taking 505 away: you'll be reducing their life expectancy with 6% against physical damage. That ain't bad for a small, instant cast spell. Too bad it doesn't stack with other ppl's Fearie Fire (allthough I'm not sure, any confirmation???) + it takes up a debuff slot.

I ground my claims in the recent explanation a Warrior put up: Even though the "damage reduction"-number for armor has diminishing returns, the armor itself in relation to the life expectancy of the wearer is linear. The damage reduc is diminishing because of the following:
- Going from 0 reduction to 1% increases my life expectancy with 1%.
- Going from 98% to 99% DOUBLES my life expenctancy.
- Going from 99% to 99.5% DOUBLES it AGAIN.
- 100% reduction = invincibility vs physical damage.
This is what Earth and Beyond did wrong at first with the Progen Warrior (could get their Hull Damage Control at 90%+ so they were able to tank with their hull without using a decent shield), and what CoH does wrong with their resistance based Tanker (though they're trying to rectify this now with adding diminishing returns, thus angering the spoiled existing Tankers). EVE Online did this right again (nearly everything there has diminishing returns). And now so does WoW.

[WingedNazgul]

When you have everything on farm status, it's not going to make a bit of difference. But if you're just learning the encounter, every little bit helps especially against bosses with a "timer" like Ragnaros or Vael. Especially Vael where Warriors and Rogues have essentially unlimited Rage and Energy, the armor reduction does add up.

[Athame]

Armor mitigation is not linear:

Reduction% = (Armor / (Armor + 400 + 85 * Enemy_Level)) * 100

Against a level 60:

Reduction% = (Armor / (Armor + 5500)) * 100

That means (again, against a level 60):
1000 armor = 15% reduction (+15%)
2000 armor = 27% reduction (+12%)
3000 armor = 35% reduction (+8%)
4000 armor = 42% reduction (+7%)
5000 armor = 48% reduction (+6%)
6000 armor = 52% reduction (+4%)
7000 armor = 56% reduction (+4%)
8000 armor = 59% reduction (+3%)
9000 armor = 62% reduction (+3%)
10000 armor = 65% reduction (+3%)
11000 armor = 67% reduction (+2%)
12000 armor = 69% reduction (+2%)
13000 armor = 70% reduction (+1%)I'm no druid expert so I'll leave the conclusions to others. But I think a main thing to concern is the limit of debuffs on raid targets.

[lurak]

I have heard a rumor that FF is a "zero" or almost negligable aggro spell. Meaning a druid can pull with FF and any other class who then does damage or stacks other spells will "pull aggro"...is this true? If it is, is this part of allowing druids to play their combo roll in allowing a pull technique without creating an instant aggro pool which must be overcome?

[Aerath]

Armor mitigation is not linear:



Correct, however the point he was making that the added life-expentancy from adding a given amount of armour is linear. Which is due to those dimishing returns.

[inviso]

I have heard a rumor that FF is a "zero" or almost negligable aggro spell. Meaning a druid can pull with FF and any other class who then does damage or stacks other spells will "pull aggro"...is this true? If it is, is this part of allowing druids to play their combo roll in allowing a pull technique without creating an instant aggro pool which must be overcome?

FF seems to create very little surrounding agro on a pull. It feels as if you can pull one mob in places where a bow/gun would pull several. But more to your question, FF is a very good way for a bear druid to establish initial agro. I don't have numbers on it, but it makes a big difference as a tank if you make sure to hit the mob with fairie fire for the pull.

[zecaguilherme]

Is 505 less armor much when a mob has 15k? No but even if it means 1 more damage, with 15 people hitting, it's 15more damage and every little bit helps. Only thing you have to check is the cap on debuffs a target can have at same time so the FF doesnt take room of a more usefull debuff.

[AeroJonesy]

It's all about the debuff slots, though. There are much better debuffs than faerie fire.

[inviso]

Pre MC, debuff slots are a non issue. In MC, you'll rarely see a druid tanking anyway and you can apply FF very early if you happen to be lucky enough to run a feral cat in MC. If it gets bumped off, no big deal.

[The_Mus]

If you have good melee damage dealers with you (you know, the one's that arn't asleep) FF is a must.

When we run pretty much anything FF / Curse of Rec / 5/5 sunder armor are kept on at all times. The only mobs you don't want to put COR on are mobs that allready hit very hard like broodlord

Think about it this way

If the average mob or boss has about 3000 - 4000 armor, their damage reduction will range between 34ish% to 40%.

Sunder armor takes off I beleive 2900 armor (not quite sure on that)
FF and CoR together take off about 1000 so the mob now pretty much has no armor. That's a 35% to 40% increase in EVERY physical damage delt to the mob. These three debuff slots are by far the most effective in raid.

[yavvy]

Is it freaking good or perhaps a waste of mana ?
Faerie Fire (Feral), no cost.

[nespejsen]

i do alot of pulling in 5 man instanses with FF, just to speed things up..

MC, i always cast it on mobs, combined with insect swarm, and insect stacks from multiply druids.(donno if it actually stack, but can have 3-4 on one mob)