Should I leave my guild for a raiding guild?

[Steamboat]

I have a hard decision to make about my guild and I'm just looking for some advice.

My guild is very small and very casual. I love it - everyone is mature and friendly and helpful, and a lot are good friends from college.

The problem is that yeah we have 100 or so members - but only 12 total players at level 60. The rest are extremely casual players with various mid level alts.

Out of the 12 lvl 60's, only 6 of us logon on a regular basis. So we couldn't raid even if all of us logged on.

The problem is that I've gotten to the point where I think my gear is as good as it can be without raiding. I can't play all the time, but my wife will let me dedicate 2 nights a week to just WoW now.

So.

Do I stay with my good friends who are mature and friendly and run scholo until I puke?

Or do I attempt to join a raiding guild? And if so, how would I go about trying to get in one?

Focusing on alts isn't really an option for me, because I hate it. I have a level 34 priest, but I'm on a pvp server and everytime I log him and get repeatedly ganked I get frustrated and switch to my main. Plus in general I'd rather have one great character than a bunch of mediocre ones.

[zkajan]

you can always use a friends list to keep in touch with your friends in the old guild...

:afro:

[Ryste]

You don't think raiding guilds are mature?

To me, the top echelon raiding guilds are very disciplined. Contrary to common stereotyping, raiding is not easy with everyone. Now if you just want a MC capable guild, then yeah you have your picks and shot gun the goods and bads.

Don't aim for the best guild to start with, join a start up raid capable guild. There are always guild looking for people to raid with on every server.

[Trepidation]

1. Most raiding guilds will need you 3 nights a week for four to five hours straight.

2. You will also need to spend quite bit of time farming consumables

3. You might find a casual raiding guild, but those are harder to find than hard-core raiding guilds. Very little happy medium guilds out there.

In short, if raiding is what you really want...you need to be able to allocate ~15-20 hours per week. Anything less than that and will get your shiny new purples at a fairly "slow" rate and/or fall behind the progression of the rest of the raiding guild which cause them to no longer "need" you.

Raiding is a fun lifestyle, but it takes a lot of fracking work.

-tReP

[moopy]

You don't need to leave your guild to raid, look for a raiding alliance which accepts people from different guilds.

If you want to get into a good one, you'll want to exhibit a fair degree of mastery of your class role, and while no-one expects you decked out in ZOMGEPIXXX at the start, your gear should be workable and intelligently chosen (understanding itemisation shows that you understand your role too). At the time of application, you should probably be decked out in some of the pick of the pre-endgame gear- "of the eagle" gear that's ten levels out of date would be a complete no-no.

Be prepared to give up three evening-sized chunks or so of time per week, maybe more with optional raids. Also, be prepared to make a financial loss rather than profit, a lot of the time, so you'll need to farm/gather for gold and consumables in your own time.

However, it can be an awful lot of fun. Forty people giving their all to tear down an enormous monster can be rather exciting.

Oh, and be aware that most successful raiding outfits tend to be a lot more mature than the average casual guild, there's less boinging in circles spamming "ROFL m8!!!", and an assumption that you're paying attention, know what you're doing and can be trusted to do it. This does put some folks off, it can be horribly organised :)

It's worth asking around in a discreet manner, find out who are the top N raiding outfits on your server, which are recruiting, and which classes they need. They will generally have a handy website with more information about their setup and how to apply. If you have friends who raid, ask them what they know, there's often something of a "bush telegraph" in these matters.

..so I imagine. I have been a member of a gouple of very nice raiding outfits so far, and I have to admit that in both cases, they came to me, so I had a slightly easier time of it. Ok, I am spoiled, but I am not complaining.

[Piemaster]

One thing you haven't mentioned is do you think you'll enjoy raiding? If not then there is no point in doing it because ultimately you will be left disappointed. You may as well just concentrate on PvP, which eventually will yield you very good gear.

If it is something that appeals to you then go for it. It doesn't sound like your guild is going anywhere any time soon so find a suitable raiding guild and take the plunge.

[det]

Difficult, especially since our guild has gone through the frustrating loss of fine players, due to the guild not raiding (or not enough people playing enough to be ready for raiding).

Now the greatest part of our guild goes raiding...and it is sad to see how we get detached from the rest of the guildies. In the end...even friend lists won't keep you in touch and you will be talking more with the ppl you raid with. Maybe.

This is what we have done:

Some ppl who left the guild for a raiding guild, kept there alts in the guild, so we still talk and meet.

The raiding guild has dedicated channels, one for general talk, one for raiding days, we also communicate on TS.

We have a guild forum and a raid forum on separate sites, so we still talk everywhere.

So...our guild stuck together after many players left, grew in size and we raid as well. Not really compareable with your situation maybe - just to show you can have it all....

[Calli]

I was in exactly the same situation. Helped found and lead a small guild which grew to around 100 members. Very close-knit, helpful and friendly. I loved my time there. Then the rot started to set in. After reaching 60 I couldn't bear the thought of leaving the guild to join a raiding guild, so I stayed and helped get the others levelled up so we could do our own small raids together. Of course, not everyone thought the same way. The core of original members all stayed and assisted the lowbies with quests and instances, but all too often those lowbies left the second they hit 60. By the time I'd levelled my second 60 the pattern was getting tediously repetitive. Soon the founding members were talking about giving it up and joining raid guilds themselves, others were insisting that if just a few more made it to 60 and stayed we could start doing our own ZG runs. We were fooling ourselves of course. The crunch came when three of the oldest-serving guild members all approached me and told me they were going to leave and join raid guilds. At that point I just gave up. I was sick and tired of babysitting lowbies to lvl 60 just for them to jump ship and leave the second they'd got everything they could from me. That same day I applied to join the same raid guild my three friends were joining and was accepted, moving all my level 60s over with me.

And you know what? It was the best thing I'd ever done. I still kick myself for not doing it earlier. I'm seeing game content that I'd NEVER have seen if I'd stayed in my old guild. The game is a challenge again, I'm with friends, my gear and equipment is steadily improving and the new guild is every bit as friendly and fun as the core members of the old one was. I recommend you take the chance and try for a decent raiding guild, if it doesn't work out, you can always go back.

[Steamboat]

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

Calli our situations are pretty much dead-on. My guild has been "recruiting" for ZG for almost a month, and we have netted like, I don't know - 3 Hunters and a Rogue who almost never log on. And when they do they don't speak or respond to questions in guild chat. Now that I think of it they are probably farmers or botters.

We did previously have an alliance. It was very nice. They raided two nights a week and they didn't even have a DKP system, they just gave each class a shot at class items in turns (also called the Suicide Kings system.) It was beautiful. Then they got enough members that they didn't need the alliance anymore.

On the other hand, 2 nights a week is the max I can give, and I'm also poor. Man this is a tough decision.

I think my gear is probably good enough though, I only have 2 greens left, and one of them is Abyssal Cloth Handwraps and they're better than dreadmist anyway so I don't feel too bad about them. Are warlocks in demand?

[Oatmealsmurf]

Locks are always in demand... aside from the damage output soulstones and health stones are always a big hit.

[Sionzen]

Locks are generally one of the least played classes so they're in demand usually. You'll like MC as most of the time, all that drops is lock and druid gear. :)

As for leaving your "casual" guild, if you want to raid (for whatever reason and some will likely call you a loot whore) you should leave. Some will be hurt/bummed etc. etc. but you gotta do whats best for you. Being stuck in a guild because of guilt yet not being happy where things are going is worse than hurting a few folks and leaving. Though, since you only have 2 days a week to raid, look for a "casual raiding" guild, you wont be happy and wont last long in a guild that requires you to be on a certain % of raids.

[Twoflower]

as moopy said, raiding is a lifestyle... If you dont have the time to raid at least 2 evenings a week ( i d say 5 hours at least ) and gather the stuff you need during raids ( bandages, potions, resis gear etc ) beside the raiding evenings then dont even start it, it will only get you frustrated.

or try and find a casual raiding guild... they may be hard to find, but they exist :)

[rottentusk]

I did this very thing, I moved my characters over to a big raiding guild. Now I wish that I had left my other characters in my old guild. Only one of my characters is allowed to raid, so my others dont get any play. Not to mention that the raiding guild is full of very rude, immature, and unfriendly people that only care to do hardcore PvP and raid. I can never find anyone to help do quests or other runs. They rarely even talk to me, when I ask questions, or make comments. Only the officers/leaders get to stimulate conversation it seems. And it's all about crude/rude bathroom humor. If you call them on it, it's like zomg your weird if you dont like my toilet jokes. D'oh!

[zkajan]

I did this very thing, I moved my characters over to a big raiding guild. Now I wish that I had left my other characters in my old guild. Only one of my characters is allowed to raid, so my others dont get any play. Not to mention that the raiding guild is full of very rude, immature, and unfriendly people that only care to do hardcore PvP and raid. I can never find anyone to help do quests or other runs. They rarely even talk to me, when I ask questions, or make comments. Only the officers/leaders get to stimulate conversation it seems. And it's all about crude/rude bathroom humor. If you call them on it, it's like zomg your weird if you dont like my toilet jokes. D'oh!
sounds like you joined the wrong guild,.. did you just pick one at random and app? was there no trial process where they get to know you and you get to know them?

[resonance]

One thing you haven't mentioned is do you think you'll enjoy raiding? If not then there is no point in doing it because ultimately you will be left disappointed. You may as well just concentrate on PvP, which eventually will yield you very good gear.


Are you serious? Every time I read a post on the subject by someone who's rank 12+ says that focusing on PvP for gear is completely not worth it. You basically have to give up your for 6 weeks once you hit rank 10 for gear that's getting marginalized by AQ.

[zkajan]

Are you serious? Every time I read a post on the subject by someone who's rank 12+ says that focusing on PvP for gear is completely not worth it. You basically have to give up your for 6 weeks once you hit rank 10 for gear that's getting marginalized by AQ.
except no guild has yet killed the last 2 boses of AQ, most of even the raiding guilds aren't past the first boss or so, and PvP is something you can solo

[selone_orc]

I agree completely i got to rank 13, got the druid pvp set, had to take days off work completley and got majorly burnt out of playing WoW. the stuff looks grast but AQ is providing very good alternatives.

[Stigg]

I just reached 60 today and am looking in a very similar fashion as the OP. I'm in college and I am about to take 2 months off of WoW to travel(graduating this semester). My guild is made up of about 10 60's and about 10 50-59. Altogether we have about 60 members, but 1/4 are alts of other players in the guild. I love my guild. Been with them for about 10 months now. A lot of us leveled up together. But I need to raid to both get money for my mount and also to get better items. If I stay in my guild it might take awhile to get enough players to 60.

We just started recruiting 45+ (before we recruitied 20+) in hopes that we can get them up to 60 and have them stay with us. Seeing as how I am going to be leaving the WoW scene on the 13th I suspect I will leave my guild and upon returning hopefully see a full 40 members at level 60.

I know no raid guild would want somebody that is planning on takin a 2 month vacation so I can not start raiding with them.

One thing we have looked into and started working on is forming a Raid Alliance with other small guilds. We had one of our 60's scout out a few other guilds to see if we could deal with them. (We are a very mature group of players...we don't tolerate foolishness of any kind) So far we have befriended one other guild and opened a chat channel that both guilds require all level 50+'s to be on. That way we can log on type in /9 Who want to go to MC and hope somebody replies. But of course that leaves us in the dust for planned raids which are almost necessary. And they dont seem to trust us as much and generally want to be RL....

Anyways, hope that hellps a bit.

[Piemaster]

Are you serious? Every time I read a post on the subject by someone who's rank 12+ says that focusing on PvP for gear is completely not worth it. You basically have to give up your for 6 weeks once you hit rank 10 for gear that's getting marginalized by AQ.

Yeah but once you have your full Tier 0, you have 3 options:

1. Give up on the toon and start an alt
2. Raid
3. PvP

If you don't want to do 1 or 2 then what alternative do you have?

[Tarnop]

But I need to raid to both get money for my mount and also to get better items.

Get better items? Yes, you definitely will if you start raiding MC successfully.

Get money? No chance. Raiding usually costs a lot of money, and can continue to do so even when you're farming a place for loot. I occasionally come out of ZG up by about 1 or 2 gold. After our first foray into MC (2 bosses down) I came out with a big grin and a 9 gold repair bill. That's just for blue items. I think someone said that the average trash pull in AQ40 will cost a tank around 50 silver if he lives...

[Lexann]

My server (Dragonblight) has what they call HSGA, or Horde Small Guild Alliance. Smaller guilds register on a site, and players sign up individually for weekly runs to MC, ZG, and AQ20. They have their own DKP system and everything. I guess it works pretty well.

If you dont want to start it, (or don't know how to, for that matter) you might throw the idea out on your realm's official forums. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the same situation as you. Make you can get something similar started.

[Tarnop]

My server (Dragonblight) has what they call HSGA, or Horde Small Guild Alliance. Smaller guilds register on a site, and players sign up individually for weekly runs to MC, ZG, and AQ20. They have their own DKP system and everything. I guess it works pretty well.

This sounds pretty interesting. Could you link the site so I can see more details on how it works? Who decides which players get to go on a week by week basis? How is class balance maintained?

[Steamboat]

Well I have decided to stay with my guild.

First of all, I can't go 3 nights a week. Only twice. I play this game for fun, not so I can add one more stressful thing to my life.

Secondly, I don't wanna spend my non-raid time gathering mats for potions or whatnot.

So I'm focusing on the tier .5 stuff. I'll probably make a list of the best possible non-raid (and non pvp rank) gear you can get, then play til I get it, and play my alt when I'm bored. Look's like I'm gonna have to kill Frostwhisper at least 50 times to get Alanna's Embrace, among other things. /sigh.

[Trepidation]

This sounds pretty interesting. Could you link the site so I can see more details on how it works? Who decides which players get to go on a week by week basis? How is class balance maintained?

The people who run the alliance make those decisions. Usually each guild has somebody on a "board" who keeps things in check. But in short, the people who run the raid pick the people they feel will best make for a successful raid with as much fairness as they can.

Just don't think that if there are 20 priests in the alliance and they typically bring 5 that you will get to go 1 in 4 times. Quite often it will be less since they need to bring at least 50% experienced people.

That is the breaks. In short though as long as the keep the alliance at a "decent size", the problem listed above usually isn't to bad.

-tReP

[Trepidation]

Well I have decided to stay with my guild.

First of all, I can't go 3 nights a week. Only twice. I play this game for fun, not so I can add one more stressful thing to my life.

Secondly, I don't wanna spend my non-raid time gathering mats for potions or whatnot.

So I'm focusing on the tier .5 stuff. I'll probably make a list of the best possible non-raid (and non pvp rank) gear you can get, then play til I get it, and play my alt when I'm bored. Look's like I'm gonna have to kill Frostwhisper at least 50 times to get Alanna's Embrace, among other things. /sigh.

Try and organize ZG/AQ20 runs. These don't need the full 40 and are challenging enough. Not horrible to do if people are in good blues. You should be able to do all of ZG and a good chunk of AQ20.

-tReP