how to teach aggro management? help!

[oramac]

ok so some good friends of mine play on the same server as me. both are 41 hunters, one NE and one dwarf. they are also engaged too. what this means is they ALWAYS play together, and have managed to get to 41 without running instances. the dwarf ran gnomer one boss one time i think, otherwise they've never instanced to my knowledge. this became painfully obvious the other night when i ran ulda with them. the group was me (49 pally), them (2x 41 hunters), and a 51 fury warrior. i know, not the best group at all. anyways, the warrior was obviously the tank, and i was the healer. the hunters were dps. except that the hunters may as well have been off tanks for all the aggro they pulled off our warrior. i tried to explain that they should wait for the tank to build aggro before attacking, and they sorta did, but still managed to pull off the tank at least once per fight. this caused me many headaches as im not a holy spec pally and have almost no healing gear on. never been a problem till now. i even MHed a different ulda group at 45ish with all lvl 38-41s in it and didnt have this much trouble. but i digress, how can i teach these 2 hunters aggro management without royally pissing them off at me?

[Tarnop]

Find a friendly tank and some elite mobs of around their level. The Ogres in STV or the ones in Alterac should do the trick. Get them to dismiss their pets (we don't want growl messing things up for the tank), and have the tank pull, then let them open fire as soon as the mob reaches the tank. It'll run straight for them, into their deadzone, and they'll have to start meleeing or try to move it out of their deadzone. Lots of running around like headless chickens, and the mob will (eventually) die. Now have the tank pull another mob and lay down 2-3 sunders as fast as he can. Tell them to watch for the debuff stacking to 3, then open fire. They should stick to auto shot, multi shot and arcane shot. The mob should stay stuck to the tank, and die nice and quick. The benefits of this approach should be immediately apparent.

Next, the advanced lesson. Have them open fire after the tank sunders once. They should be able to pull aggro fairly quickly. As soon as they see the mob turn and run for them, have them both feign death. Hey presto, mob returns to tank, they gate up, let him hit another sunder and start shooting again :)

[s12demon]

Ive got a 42 hunter, admittedly ive not done ulda yet, and i have never had any particular problems pulling agro off the tank in most situations (except where i get 2-3 crits in a row but that can't be helped).

The tactic i often use is to do a slow(ish) 10 count before engaging the mob that way the tank should have got in 3-5 strikes depending on their weapon and that should be more than enough to enable them to keep agrro.

Another way is to simply not use aimed shot (i assume that was the aggro pulling ablity) until the tank has made 3-4 hits on the mob rather than use it to pull (you'll be surprised the number of hunters ive seen use it for pulling)

Without further details as to exactly what they did and how they kept getting the agro it's hard to give more info and suggestions than that

On a slight side note how in the hell did a 41 hunter manage to get the agro off a 51 main tank, even if he was a fury warrior ?
Unless the tank was also not that great, either equipment or skill-wise, this should be almost impossible anyway in my experience.

[oramac]

On a slight side note how in the hell did a 41 hunter manage to get the agro off a 51 main tank, even if he was a fury warrior ?
Unless the tank was also not that great, either equipment or skill-wise, this should be almost impossible anyway in my experience.

beats the hell outta me!! i couldnt figure it out either, but the amount of heals i had to throw their way it was obvious they were.

thanks for the suggestions! i will try to implement them. keep em coming!

[kimmyrafter]

I would just tell them simply that things will go much more smoothly if the group can keep the mob's attention on the tank, and that to do that they need to hold their attack until the sunder debuff has stacked a couple times. Definitely suggest that they not lead off with Aimed.

Before an encounter just suggest politely that the group try this tactic and see if the mob goes down any quicker.

[Tollin]

Aggro management from your uncle Tollin:

Step 1: Try to talk to them. if that doesnt work then proceed to step 2.
Step 2: Let them die, not group wipes, but just the one who is messing up the aggro. Let them die a few times.

That should teach them

[Oatmealsmurf]

It always amuses me when I see one of my fellow hunters who can't manage aggro considering they have the best tool for aggro management of any class. Hilarious.

Just make a few polite suggestions to them ask them to try a couple different scenarios. Nothing really left to add to the other suggestions above. A lot of hunters don't realize that the way to be most effective is to sometimes limit your damage output. Especially with no experience in a group it seems counter intuitive. If they don't listen I just would avoid grouping with them. We have a hunter like that in my guild who thinks that just because they are survival specced it makes them a melee class.

Remind them that feign is their best friend... don't start out with aimed shot... etc. It really isn't imperative that they count sunders (and they won't if they are impatient) as long as you can get them to remember to feign as soon as they pull the mob off. If they don't listen let them die a few times and maybe they will learn. If they still don't learn it might be best to cut your losses.

[Cadineal]

I myself am a hunter, and I know the woes of pulling improperly.

If this is a constant issue, my suggestion to you is to say something to them. Most likely they are getting itchy trigger fingers and are shooting before the warrior has enough time to actually draw aggro.

Feign death is huge if they are having aggro issues. If they pull just have them feign death, then politely tell them to allow the warrior to do his thing first before he shoots. They should also know that there are certan skills a hunter uses in solo combat that will draw aggro on them, and skills they use in a group situation.

Stings and arcane shot are the way to go. Our auto-shoot is hella nasty as is for racking up DPS. A lot of hunters forget that they are in a group and use their solo tactics. We all try to melt faces and forget that it usually results in us going toe to toe when the mob goes low.

I would be honest with them, and tell the warrior having issues WHY he is having said issues. No sense being nice nice with your butt in an instance on the line.

I also look at mr. fury warrior, too. Someone is not managing their tanking!

[Seeo]

I got a few steps... I do BRD all the time, the last few times I've gone, I didn't even need 1 heal from the healer, but my damage was at the top of the list.

Step 1:

Drop Freezing Trap (Not required for every encounter, use common sense, if you're only pull 2 elites and 2 normal mobs, skip the Trap, but if you think this will be a good little fight [4 elites and normal mobs], drop the Trap) in front of you and the healer. Stay next to the healer so you can see if they pull aggro, you can easily sick your pet on the mob.


Step 2:

NEVER EVER start with Aimed shot, always start with a sting, more precisely, Serpent Sting 95% of the time. Even on casters, unless the BOSS is a caster, then use Viper Sting.


Step 3:

After Serpent Stinging, use Auto Shot for 6 seconds, or about 3 normal shots.


Step 4:

You now may use Aimed Shot + Multi Shot ... Immediatly follow the Multi Shot with a Feign Death, wether or not you have aggro, because if you DO Feign Death, you're aggro resets to 0, so you'll actually have so good catching up to even think of getting that aggro back to the ammount of aggro the Warrior has.


Step 5:

Use Aimed Shot freely on the Tanks targets (in case you don't know the tanks target, you should target the tank himself, and press "F") from now on, until your Feign Death Cools down, then pop another Multi Shot. Remember to replace your Serpent sting whenever it runs out, or dies and a new mob is selected. By the time you Feign for the second time, you should be fine to Aimed Shot + Multi Shot all you want. Good to practise the 10 second shot rotations... = "Aimed Shot + Multi Shot + Auto Shot + Auto Shot" then start over.


Step 6:

SLOW DOWN ANY FLEEING MOBS! USE CONCUSSIVE SHOT! Your job as the hunter is to MAKE SURE those mobs stick to the ground in front of the warrior. If they run shoot them, if they proceed to run right by you, wing clip 'em. That's your job, and if you don't do it, it's YOUR fault and you're fired! Hunters have more purpose than DPS... They protect the healer, stop the flee'ers and Trap the adds.




I'm a hunter, and I'm pretty harsh on myself. The only way to make a good hunter out of a bad one, is to get on their ass like $hit on velcro! If they give up, it's cuz they realized that hunters are actually not as easy-mode as they thought. You gotta be alert. So go out there Drill-Sergeant Oramac and show them who's boss!

Use lines like: Do I look pretty to you??!?!!! Bull****!! I bet you could suck a golfball through a garden hose!!!

And so on.