First time ZG advice

[Steamboat]

I know all you seasoned raiders look down on ZG as a joke, but there are still those of us who have never been.

I'm in a small close-knit guild of mature players. After about 9 months of slowly building a good group, we now have 20 members at 60, and Saturday we are running ZG for the first time.

For awhile we have been running UBRS to gear all of our various alts. We use TS, we work very well as a team, and at no point is UBRS a challenge.

Should we expect to do well in ZG? None of us have more than 1 or 2 epics. What advice do you have?

[Dutchgrass]

Take your time, don't expect to breeze through the place. Pull carefully, and know and use your CC capabilities as much as possible.
You don't need epics to progress here (helps of course), as long as you have a balanced raid and people grasp their basic class roles, only a few bosses will prove to be very difficult. However, as your group will gradually learn encounters you will steadily gear up and eventually should be able to handle the entire zone.

After countless runs I somewhat lost my taste for the place, but the first few weeks/months were great fun. Some trash mobs have interesting abilities to deal with, and a lot of bossfights are quite nicely designed, proving a new refreshing playing experience you won't often encounter in the 5-10 man places.

Start off with Venoxis (snake aspect), you'll reach him relatively quickly when going straight ahead. Then aim for the Bat aspect Priest which you can reach by taking the right road after the first bridge. These are relatively easy bosses but should get you used to the scripted nature of the bossfights.

Oh, and try to enjoy the place, even when you end up wiping a lot at first. :wink:

[bpaige]

Yes....read the strats so it gives you an idea of what to expect.....ZG is deffinetly a step up in the difficulty meter from UBRS, but it's not that bad at all. Patience and communication will get you through. Snake boss is all about the crowd control, tanking the boss off to the side with some mana drain getting down the adds then burning down the boss. It takes a little bit of tank coordination as your going to need to move him around a little bit to stay out of a poison cloud. Fairly straigt forward. Bat boss, also straight forward, you just need to be awares of when she is trying to heal herself and stop it. You also need to deal with some adds with some aoe and also you need to reposition her as batbombs drop.

I would suggest using CTRaid with boss mods as it will tell you when she is trying to heal and needs to be interupted as well as when bat bombs are incoming...useful tools imo.

You should be able to get them down easily...the other bosses all have their little quirks to them...read the strats and pwn. ZG is an awesome instance as far as looks and playabilty....you'll get the feeling that it is huge! and it really is compared to anything else you've instanced.

Have Fun!

[AeroJonesy]

ZG involves lots more crowd control than UBRS, but the rewards are way better. You definitely don't need epics going in there. My guild was farming ZG before we set foot in Molten Core, if that helps at all. My first non-crafted epic actually came from ZG. You'll do fine in blues.

[Dark Matter]

Take it slowly and don't panic.

Read the tactics before hand.

Be prepared to wipe and few times on each boss and for it to take a few weeks before you are able to clear ZG in one night.

Don't get discouraged.

Take a repair bot or two.

Designate a miner for the entire run and have the Soulderite (http://wwndata.worldofwar.net/item.php?id=19774) sent to guild bank.

Be aware that opening the Voodoo piles may result in the opener being mind controlled. That person will have to be killed or sheeped. As well as the Dolls, there is also a chance that Blood Scythe (http://wwndata.worldofwar.net/item.php?id=19727) Can drop (bop). Give that to a herber and make sure (s)he is the only one to herb in ZG from then on. Herbing in ZGH with the Scythe gives you a chance of Bloodvine (http://wwndata.worldofwar.net/item.php?id=19726) which again should be sent to your bank.

Class tasks for fast trash clearing:
Warriors - there should be only one Tank for trash, the others are DPS.
Mages: Primary task Sheeping adds, Secondary DPS the MT Target, Thirdly AOE some trash mobs (Bats etc.) They also need to decurse occasionally.
Druids: Primary task Hibernating Adds, Secondary curing Poison, Thirdly Healing. May need to go feral for some fights if you don't have enough Tanks. Unlikely though.
Rogues: DPS (as usual) Will need to kick many mobs to interupt them. Some mobs they have to shoot at - Blood Drinkers for example.
Warlocks: Primary task DPS MT Target, Secondary AOE (as with mages). Shards are 10 a penny in ZG so Healthstones all round and constant SS on MT and Priests as needed.
Shaman: Anti Poison totems, cleaning, Healing, DPS if needed.
Paladins: No idea - dopn't play Alliance. I assume Blessings all round + Heal and Cleanse Poison.
Hunters: Nature res Aura + DPS
Priests: Heal and cure magic (random polymorphs into toads and silences from some mobs) Will also need to shield AOEers.

When you first enter ZG you will see two humanoid mobs almost in front of you. There are also two more to your right and a Patrol of 2 Snakes that will come up the path. It's tempting to think you can tank both inital mobs at once, and you probably could.

However, they are axe throwers and do a hefty aoe whirling axe throwing wossname that hits clothies for a lot of damage. They also knock back. If it goes wring you end up with 6 elites and a lot of damges dealt.

Whilst learning ZG it's much better to sheep/sleep everything execpt the MT Target. With 12+ DPSers all hitting the same mob that go down like the proverbial sack of .... Having 2 or 3 (or more) of them running about leads to long messy fights and more down time for your mana users.

OK, I mentioned the axe whirlers. You'll also see a lot of snakes. They have a voley poison spit that hits for intial soso damage + a nasty DOT. This DOT need to be removed asap - Druids and Shammys (Pallys??) do this. These are the mobs that the Druids need to Hibernate if they add - Most pats in the early pasrt are Snakes.

You'll also get troll preists. These need to be silenced - shield slam and Kicked etc. or they put up a shield to prevent themselves taking Magic damage. They also heal themselves and others and randonly poly a member of the group.

Berserker Patrols. Big Buggers that fear and thunderclap and charge (knockback) Try to fight these in a cleared area or you could get adds from the fearing.

Bat Packs. One or two mounted Bat riders + 4/6 Bats. Both the Mounted Bat Riders have to be tanked apart from each other and the BATS AOEed. Not hard BUT at about 20% HP your tank has to stop tanking and run away from them - as do any melee class that may be close. When they die the Bat Riders explode doing 6K+ damage. Your tank MAY survive, no one else will. running away at the right time takes a bit of practice. Remember to tank them away from the group and away from each other.

Spider packs - " big red" Brood mothers + a human (shadow Priest) and a pack of little spiders. Sheep/sleep the brrod mothers and the Humanoid. AOE the littles. Then DPS one brood mother. When she dies she spawns a lot of Little spiders - aoe these. rince and repeat.

That's enough to be going on with :D

[Gainon]

For the first several runs: Bring extra healers, and make sure they're more concerned with keeping their groups alive than finishing tops in the Healing Meter Contest. A healer that's run out of mana because they're cross-group healing everyone (redundantly) is utterly worthless. And pallies should never die with full mana, no matter what their spec. I hate when they pull that crap. "But I was helping OT!" "And I was busy healing everyone else who can't self-heal, ya noob."

Establish responsibilities for crowd control: Which mages need to Sheep (AND re-Sheep), what druids need to Hibernate (and re-Hibernate), and get them to commit to focusing on maintaining CC until their target is being attacked (i.e., they don't switch targets to DPS unless they're well-skilled at getting their target re-CCed). Make sure that everyone knows not to break CC. Nothing more aggravating than having the same person breaking a sheep over and over again: "Gee, that snake was loose so I attacked it." Uh... ya gotta give the CC people time to re-cast, duh.

Bring protection potions for first couple boss fights: Nature protection (for the melee folks at least) on the snake boss. Fire protection (for everyone, ideally) for the bat boss.

Make sure your rogues are well-versed on kicking to stop bosses from healing themselves. Can't stress that enough.

Know the little tricks: Sheep the spinning axe throwers to stop their spinning. Run away from bat riders when they hit around 45%. Kill the tiger cubs before they run off and draw more aggro. Don't engage the Berzerkers too close to other mobs. And by all means watch out for the wandering imps near the Edge of Madness. God I hate them.

Mostly, be patient. Know that it'll be a long time before you get to Hakkar, so enjoy the ride. There's plenty of reward in ZG in just doing the first couple bosses for a while. You'll need to build rep anyway, so don't get too discouraged if you're not getting much progress at first.

[Dark Matter]

Sheeping and Hibernating.

Don't forget that new Raid Icon Toy that the leader and assistants can use to mark adds.

This will enable you to have mages/druids change target, dps for a bit then reaquire their target easily in order to re-sheep it. IE mage one has Diamond, Mage 2 has Club Mage 3 has Skull etc.

[Steamboat]

Thanks for all the advice!

I love the new raid icons btw. Our guild assigned permanent signs for each role, and it's just second nature now....the skull gets dps'd, the wheel gets sapped, the moon gets sleeped, etc. We do this for every run no matter who is in it. I love the addition.

I'll let you know how it goes!

[OrpheusDeus]

I love ZG, I don't see it as a joke at all. There are many nice gems among the generally sub-par loot table that covers the place. However, there are two major road-blocks you should be prepared for:

The Snake, Bat, and Bloodlord bosses are vary easy. Many guilds get these down first try, there are even blue-gear pug's on my server that do these bosses with no issue and little communication skills.. Anyhow, after these three, the difficulty ramps up dramatically.

Spider is a good bit harder and the panther and tiger are much MUCH harder. Learn these encounters via guides as others have said. Make sure for the first run you have a lot of potions to chug. I've got epic gear and I still sometimes need to use mana potions on the tiger just due to a screw up in the phase transition (one gets loose, reses the others, ack).

Once you are past this road-block, hakkar is simple tank and spank. Then comes the jin-do roadblock. Jindo is a nasty encounter indeed. Be ready to spend a while making this encounter work for your guild I know a lot of diffirent methods, you just have to find what works for your team make-up.

Good luck to you in ZG.

[Twoflower]

1) However, they are axe throwers and do a hefty aoe whirling axe throwing wossname that hits clothies for a lot of damage. They also knock back. If it goes wring you end up with 6 elites and a lot of damges dealt.

2) OK, I mentioned the axe whirlers. You'll also see a lot of snakes. They have a voley poison spit that hits for intial soso damage + a nasty DOT. This DOT need to be removed asap - Druids and Shammys (Pallys??) do this. These are the mobs that the Druids need to Hibernate if they add - Most pats in the early pasrt are Snakes.

3) Bat Packs. One or two mounted Bat riders + 4/6 Bats. Both the Mounted Bat Riders have to be tanked apart from each other and the BATS AOEed. Not hard BUT at about 20% HP your tank has to stop tanking and run away from them - as do any melee class that may be close. When they die the Bat Riders explode doing 6K+ damage. Your tank MAY survive, no one else will. running away at the right time takes a bit of practice. Remember to tank them away from the group and away from each other.


1 - you can sheep the axe thrower while he is whirling. since the whole group is doing damage on him it will not regen his life, but it will break the whirling.

2 - To avoid the DOT completely just have the tank turn the snakes away from the raid.

3 - For batpacks and alot of other casting mobs, in and outside of zul gurub, get the mod "spellalert". It will alert you when a mob is casting a heal, exploding, enraging, whatever. very useful mod.

yeah, and read the boss tactics befor you try them, and go trough them on Teamspeak. But dont overdo the mana draining, we dont drain mana on any boss, just have the rogues kick and the warriors shieldslam and the mages counterspelling etc, saves alot of time.

[Steamboat]

Friday we just happen to have 15 of our 20 raid members online, so we decided to go into ZG and do a trial run of the trash mobs just to get a feel for it. And also because most of us were drunk.

We ended up mowing through the trash, and even survived an unlucky patrol-add with a berserker, so we decided to take a shot at Venoxis.

With just the 15 of us we were able to take down Venoxis on our 3rd attempt. In fact we had zero priests, so we ended up draining his mana because we didn't have a way to dispel the renew he put on himself.

In all we were:
4 Druids
3 Paladins
2 Warriors
2 Warlocks
2 Rogues
1 Mage
1 Hunter

Our full 20 man attempt is coming up this week. I know Venoxis is probably the easiest, but I after taking him down our first time in there with just 15, I'm confident about our chances.

[bpaige]

That's awesome when reading about Jindo....be sure to explore the usage of Edge of Madness Imps........We starteed messing around with this this weekend and let me tell you it was hillariously successful!

[Twoflower]

That's awesome when reading about Jindo....be sure to explore the usage of Edge of Madness Imps........We starteed messing around with this this weekend and let me tell you it was hillariously successful!

please, dont :) no need for them and they have the nasty habit of breaking loose on the raid in midfight :) better just practice the clean tactics till you have him down.

[Dallana]

ZG is good fun and has some really fun boss encounters which are also a challenge.

My advice:

Get a DKP system in place ASAP. The first few times you go in, you can roll for stuff but you'll want to be moving to a DKP or similar system as soon as possible.

Make sure everyone has CT_Raid and the Healers/Mages have Decursive.

Voice Comms are the biggest help ever. Make sure you get everyone on as soon as possible.

Organisation is also vitally important. Make sure everyone knows what they're doing and when to do it. Work out healing rotations, Innervating, Combat Rez priority etc. beforehand.

Lastly, a balanced raid is the key to long term success. I really would not reccomend going in without any priests again!

Also, experiment with not using Mana Drain. IMO It's not actually a great deal of use.

[Seeo]

Our guild uses DKP for only 2 instances, MC and BWL.

ZG, AQ, Ony are all Need if you need. This works out PERFECTLY! :) Because we have absolutly no loot whores in the guild, all mature good knowledged players. They helped me out so much in my first ZG run AND got me an Epic since I was a first timer.

We are a tight knit organization, I think we're only about 65 in the guild, with at least 40 on every night, we all know eachother as much as you can know people over Ventrilo.

Oh and btw, Ventrilo rocks, in my old guild we had TeamSpeak, since I moved to a new guild with Ventrilo, peoples voices are crystal clear and no one playing the trumpet (thats what it sounds like) over their mic. TS was so bad I'd have to log off because I'd get so freaking annoyed.

[Steamboat]

Lastly, a balanced raid is the key to long term success. I really would not reccomend going in without any priests again!

Yeah, we won't go without a priest again. We just happened to have 15 of us online at once (actually 13 - two were lvl 56 guys who won't be coming on our raids yet) and we kind of decided last minute to take a look in ZG.

Also, we have a DKP system in place. Suicide Kings - it's different, because you get loot based on whether or not it's your turn. Since we're so small it works because no one can skip raids to move up the ladder, because if anyone skips we won't have enough guys.

[kapzin]

Nothing wrong with DKP / SK in ZG/AQ20 as long as your only able to run the 20 mans. Once you get to MC, ZG should go to /rolls.

Also note, its worth it to run it as often as possible, even if its just clearing trash. The rep rewards are quite nice for most classes, and getting the rep generally takes longer than getting the primals.

[Dallana]

I am 100% against rolling in any Raid instance (except UBRS obviously!). There are some nice drops in ZG and you really do not want to be in a position whereby your MT, who has been to every raid, gets outrolled on the Bloodlord's Defender by the Lv 58 Warrior who just joined your guild and you only took along to make up the numbers.

DKP will stop that kind of thing from happening.

[Dallana]

Double Post..........

[kapzin]

Not necessarily. What if your MT had just spent all his DKP on might in MC. Also, how many people are willing to spend DKP they could be using in MC+ on ZG gear, sure there are a few nice epics that are even better than MC, but not everything is as quality as the 40 mans.

Also, another part of it is not having loot greedy people. If your MT would benefit from an item, everyone should pass on their own accord for guild progression. And if they don't then you could probably see whos the nearest on the chop block for not supporting the guild.

There is also the issue that if you have 40+ people that raid, only 20 can go into ZG. Therefore the people that cant go due to spots won't be getting DKP. Kinda disappointing to attend every 40 man and have less DKP because you couldn't get a spot in a 20 man.

I still stand by that once you get in MC+, drop the DKP on ZG. Till then use it.

[Nightsorrow]

A solution: have 20 man and 40 man DKP. The people that run more 20 man raids won't be outbidding those that attend more 40 man raids and vice versa. We use this in my guild with great success.

[Dallana]

A solution: have 20 man and 40 man DKP. The people that run more 20 man raids won't be outbidding those that attend more 40 man raids and vice versa. We use this in my guild with great success.

Yeah, we operate a similar system.

[Steamboat]

Speaking of 40 man...

We've just now gotten big enough that we can just patch together 20 lvl 60's online at the same time for a raid. Up until now we have grown very slowly...and I think I like it that way. We are mature players and we want to stay that way. We don't advertise for members, we just invite the good players we find in pickup groups (if they are unguilded.) Some of those work out, some don't. Occassionally we convince real life friends to start playing WoW and recruit that way.

Now that we are technically a raiding guild, should we be worried about an influx of crappy players? Or do you think we have a better chance now to recruit quality players and therefore get the next 20 faster than the last 20?

[Twoflower]

my guilds solution is to use DKP at the endbosses of 20 man raids ( Hakkar and Ossirian ) and to roll on the rest of the instance. The 2 Endbosses drop much better gear than the rest of the instance and everyone wants his heart of hakkar ( even after the nerf ).

[icutyoubad]

Just my .02

ZG is defnitely no joke. And it is such a friggin blast to play. My guild has MC and Ony on farm, but we STILL have not taken down Jindo, if that gives you an idea. Hakkar is probably one of the easier bosses in the instance, minus maybe snake. Tiger boss can be a pain, but not really difficult. The panther boss -- on a side note, got my Will of Arlok Sunday, woohoo! -- can be tough too what with all teh adds.

Anyway, just remember to have fun because ZG is a FUN 20 man.

Good Luck!

[Dallana]

Speaking of 40 man...

We've just now gotten big enough that we can just patch together 20 lvl 60's online at the same time for a raid. Up until now we have grown very slowly...and I think I like it that way. We are mature players and we want to stay that way. We don't advertise for members, we just invite the good players we find in pickup groups (if they are unguilded.) Some of those work out, some don't. Occassionally we convince real life friends to start playing WoW and recruit that way.

Now that we are technically a raiding guild, should we be worried about an influx of crappy players? Or do you think we have a better chance now to recruit quality players and therefore get the next 20 faster than the last 20?

Well raiding ZG isn't as attractive as say, raiding in MC or beyond and I think you'll probably have to get some progress under your belt before you start recruiting properly. The fact remains if you want to grow, you have to recruit and that means taking risks on some players. The problem that you will find is that you'll always have trouble recruiting the classes that you really need (Healing Classes for example), and you'll have too many of others (Like Rogues and Warriors) Also you'll probably need to recruit at least 40 more people to be able to raid MC, as you'll not get all the guild turn up to the raid at once.

But good luck to it and I daresay out of the 20-40 more people you recruit a fair few of them will turn out well and become good friends. And it's always nice to make new friends.

[Dutchgrass]

I am 100% against rolling in any Raid instance (except UBRS obviously!). There are some nice drops in ZG and you really do not want to be in a position whereby your MT, who has been to every raid, gets outrolled on the Bloodlord's Defender by the Lv 58 Warrior who just joined your guild and you only took along to make up the numbers.

DKP will stop that kind of thing from happening.

Actually, having mature, reliable players that aren't total loot****** will stop that from happening. Secondly, simply don’t give trial members loot unless your long time members all don’t want it.


With just the 15 of us we were able to take down Venoxis on our 3rd attempt. In fact we had zero priests, so we ended up draining his mana because we didn't have a way to dispel the renew he put on himself.

In all we were:
4 Druids
3 Paladins
2 Warriors
2 Warlocks
2 Rogues
1 Mage
1 Hunter

Seeing as you had 2 Warlocks, at least 1 could have used Felhunter to Devour the Renew.
Please do not get into a habit of draining mana on the bosses. In the early days of ZG this was a popular tactic, but all bosses merely need a single tick of mana regen for any of their mana reliant skills. Mana drain being useful is an urban myth and a total waste of dps. The time you spend draining is more time in which something can go wrong.

As for loot distribution, as a guild that only does ZG, I guess dkp makes sense. We personally don't use a loot system in ZG (albeit we raid the 40 man stuff), the only rule we tend to apply is that the set quest related items (the epic Primal Hakkari stuff) go to the people who are closest to completing it with regards to their Zandalar reputation level.

As for the harder bosses, don’t be afraid to think out of the box and bring every possible consumable that might make your life easier. For the Panther boss for instance, you’d be amazed how much easier the adds become if you bring a load of Flash Bombs.

[Zaratustra]

my guild has started to do ZG for a couple of weeks. they've alre4ady done some runs there. yesterday i also got the place in raid, but had to leave, as the guild master popped up (and, actually, i am still 58 :) ). we use DKP system already, though GM had got some drops from the first runs without paying for them witrh DKP...well, lets see.
how u think ppl, can i actually run with them in ZG being 58? i have a nice gear all fronm ST and some BRD..
i mean, dont i make them troubles there, being a bit lowwer?

[Dallana]

Depends upon your class - If you're a Healing Class then I would say yes as long as you stay at the back and be mindful of your increased aggro range. We've taken a 58 Druid in before without any problems.

However if you're a DPS class you might find that some of your spells are resisted or your blows do not land as often. If you're a Tank then it's a definite no.

Also if your GM has been Ninja'ing stuff without DKP my advice is to leave the guild at once or have a chat with the others and let him know that his behaviour is unacceptable. People like that aren't team players and don't deserve to be in a raid let alone run one.

[Twoflower]

Please do not get into a habit of draining mana on the bosses. In the early days of ZG this was a popular tactic, but all bosses merely need a single tick of mana regen for any of their mana reliant skills. Mana drain being useful is an urban myth and a total waste of dps. The time you spend draining is more time in which something can go wrong.


i said it allready, Dutchgrass sais it again. This can not be stressed enugh ! All casts can be interrupted, so it is better to have the interrupting classes pay atention than to have the whole raid wait for 5 minutes till the mana is drained. In these 5 minutes so much can go wrong, healers can go OOM, people dying, all the things you can imagine. which all will not happen if you just run in there and kick the f*cker down fast.

[Steamboat]

Draining mana is not our plan in the future - but on Venoxis we were under the impression that if we got too close he would cast chain lightning and wipe the raid. Is that accurate?

The only ranged silencer in the raid was the Mage and Warlock. I guess we should have done that, but we didn't know he could still cast renew after we drained his mana. (And to be honest, he didn't.)

[kapzin]

The explosion that kills all people near him only seems to happen when ALOT of people are close. Our ranged/healers keep max range and let melee in on phase 1 after snakes are down and have no problems, other than melee bandaging after a holy nova or 2. Melee moves out at 53% and we all move to the steps to give the MT some room to move around. We've never had a problem with the renew, even if a priest doesn't dispel it because our MT is 31 prot, and the shield slam attack can remove it.

[Gainon]

We drain mana quite a bit, and have had great success. Yes, it may be overkill, but I'd argue that it's easier to wean off of Mana Drain than it is to not use it at all from the get-go. Just depends on how much mana draining interferes with other healing/spellcasting duties.

A suggestion for 20-man vs. 40-man loot: Raid points. Similar to DKP, but the points you accumulate can be used to modify your roll, rather than just bid.

For example, tank loot drops and two warriors want. Warrior #1, a long time vet of guild ZG raids, has 60 raid points from previous runs, and decides he wants to use some for this roll. Warrior #2, a ZG newbie, has zero raid points. Warrior #1 opts to spend 40 raid points, which he announces before the roll, and then rolls /rand 41-100. Warrior #2 just rolls /rand 100. If Warrior #1 wins, those 40 raid points are gone. If Warrior #2 wins, then Warrior #1 keeps his raid points.

The raid point system gives newbie members a legit shot at gear (which will likely get replaced soon enough when they get to MC+), but still rewards long-time attendees for sticking with it.

Also, as your members accumulate rep and raid points, I highly recommend that ZG primal items (turned in to receive class-specific armor) first go to any members that already have the requisite rep to get the item. That way, a revered-repped member wouldn't lose out on a revered-level primal item to a neutral-repped member who won't be able to use it for some time. If two players of nearly equal rep need an item, *then* they should use raid points if they so choose.

[Twoflower]

the chain lightening only happens in phase 1 as far as i know. We have all melee move in when he is changing shape. before that only ranged dd do damage.

the chainlightening jumps from player to player that is too close, doing more damage whit every jump, so the more people there are the better chance of dying.

edit : Or am i confusing this whit the green eye beams of cthun ? damn, i m not sure any more...

[Dutchgrass]

Draining mana is not our plan in the future - but on Venoxis we were under the impression that if we got too close he would cast chain lightning and wipe the raid. Is that accurate?

The only ranged silencer in the raid was the Mage and Warlock. I guess we should have done that, but we didn't know he could still cast renew after we drained his mana. (And to be honest, he didn't.)

The Chain Lightning (as pointed out by others as well) is a reverse version of the Shaman one. Depending on range and jump targets, it increases in damage. I’ve seen 15k hits on people.
The way to avoid this Phase 1 skill is to simply have all the melee up and close, and all the healers/ranged dps at maximum range. This will prevent it chaining and killing people.

Not sure what you mean with the silence comment, I don’t recall there actually being a need for it. Can’t silence him, so won’t stop the Renew or Chain Lightning.


We drain mana quite a bit, and have had great success. Yes, it may be overkill, but I'd argue that it's easier to wean off of Mana Drain than it is to not use it at all from the get-go. Just depends on how much mana draining interferes with other healing/spellcasting duties.

We used to mana drain quite a lot in the early days when the instance was released. We gradually stopped using it boss by boss, noticing that even with a smidge of mana they still used the skills we were trying to prevent. Nowadays none are mana drained, dps/healing is higher, fights are shorter, kills are smoother. We could have omitted mana drain from the get-go.
You are of course free to use your own tactics, but personally I’m convinced it’s absolutely pointless.

[kapzin]

When my guild first started doing ZG, we tried mana draining some bosses like bat and spider. It actually hurt us more than it helped. When we stopped draining and focus'd straight on DPS we did much better on several encounters, and eventually they drop like clockwork everytime you attempt them. Also, tricks like being able to dispel magic spider's life drain come in handy.