your opinion on the change

[shadowrender]

This thread is to find out if people are against or for the new change in the alliance and the horde

I myself am against it, however I will keep playing since my brother and sister wil to.

so whats your opinion?

[Gaelan]

I can't believe Alliance have Warlocks!!! So against lore and Alliance principle! GOSH! =P

Only kidding...

But really, Alliance and Horde already share 7 of the classes, but nobody gripes where there's weird faction/class combos, but since that was the way since launch, nobody questions it.

I don't think its a big deal.

Although the more important part of this change is allowing the two classes (Shaman, Paladin) to diverge in their abilities more, to become to truely seperate classes. Right now they are somewhat different, yet tied to each other so each faction is as closely balanced as possible. And if the cries on the official Shaman forums were heard, they'd be more alike the way people want them. Why have two classes anymore if they are too alike. Now they can make them two truely different classes and playstyles.

[Magikhat]

I think this is good for alliance pvp wise and good for horde raiding. Both sides benefit.

[shadowrender]

true, but I would rather have that they put their time and energy into making "new" classes or atleast give the blood elf paladins different abilities then the alliance paladins, and vica versa with the draenai shaman.

This just seems like "quick fix" in my eyes, you can see it in the story

and alliance can have warlocks not every human/gnome are knights in shining platemail :D

EDIT: please vote in the poll, so I can have statistics of the nicer people in wow, instead of those guys screaming at the official boards :D

[Urrakat]

I voted "I love it, It's great !" because:

1) I play Alliance, and I'm in a great guild. So playing Horde is not an option for me. It's great to have the opportunity to play a different class, and even more Shaman is one of those classes that really attracts me (always thought that was a shame that I didn't play horde side because I loved so much the Shaman concept)

2) Brings balance to either PvE and PvP

3) Makes a lot of gear (for both sides) usable or worth selling (ie, Lightforge plates, Elemental mail, etc)

The only downside is that I really liked the idea of a "unique" faction class.

[DotComm]

I'm not a fan of the idea. A paladin healing an undead just seems so wrong to me.

[Oatmealsmurf]

but a Priest doesn't? LOL

But I'm with you really... I don't like it

[Baboon]

I love it, I can finally dispel flag running shamans and watch them recast it.

[Sacroth]

I dislike it, mainly because it makes the two factions practically identical.

[Baboon]

I'm not a fan of the idea. A paladin healing an undead just seems so wrong to me.

I think Blizz should make a lore so that Forsaken aren't really evil. The rest of the Horde isn't evil either and then it would all make sense.

I don't get the Forsaken evil idea anyway, if I woke up as a zombie one day I wouldn't try to kill the rest of humanity either.

[Gaelan]

What about an undead Holy Priest. Doesn't that seem wrong?

But its in game.

I just think people are having a knee-jerk reaction to this since its sort of out of the blue.

[shadowrender]

Most undead probably aren't evil either, just the evil ones that stand out.

Sylvanas is evil the rest is mostly uncaring I think, just doing what theyre ordered to do by sylvanas (i know this isn't true but I wish it was)

[Gaelan]

I think Blizz should make a lore so that Forsaken aren't really evil. The rest of the Horde isn't evil either and then it would all make sense.

I don't get the Forsaken evil idea anyway, if I woke up as a zombie one day I wouldn't try to kill the rest of humanity either.


There aren't many Forsaken story lines that are pure evil. Its just that they stick out. Like the whole plague thing, but then they are aiming to plague the Humans (not really the alliance as a whole) because they are hunted down by Humans, and its supposed to be a counter attack of sorts.

Other undead are helping the Tauren to "cure" the Barrens of its desolation. There's a whole team that reside in Thunderbluff if you remember. Other undead battle the scourge non-stop. Killing former family members mindlessly controlled by the scourge, just like the Humans of the Alliance are battle the Scourge.

Others are just trying to make it after "finding" themselves no longer controlled by the scourge.


And I think I read the Blood Elf "Paladin" class referred to as "Blood Knight" by a blue. So maybe they will have renamed spells/abilities or something. Which was what Shaman were in danger of becoming anyway.

[Grendo]

Love it.

While I admit its a 'quick fix' to a longstanding problem, it will do much more than people realize in the long run.

Neither the paladin or shaman class could be equally balanced in current gameplay. Now that factions dont have to be balanced on this point, both classes will likely see some major (much needed) improvements. Especially shamans.

This will greatly help retain a lot of the endgame horde raiding guilds that used the 'zomg alliance ezmode' debate thanks to Paladins. It wont end it (thanks to dwarf priests) but it will help.

Lore already doesn't make sense. Female NE druid anyone? Case dismissed.

Paladin/Shaman duo's will rule the world.

[shadowrender]

The blizzdevelopers said that the only thing that was changing was that paladins and shamans now get racial spells like the priests do

thats all, i was hoping more, but maybe they an really make these "blood knights" different, then theyd be alright wit me

[DotComm]

I think Blizz should make a lore so that Forsaken aren't really evil. The rest of the Horde isn't evil either and then it would all make sense.

I don't get the Forsaken evil idea anyway, if I woke up as a zombie one day I wouldn't try to kill the rest of humanity either.

Well it's not that undead are evil, just that palas have a lot of offensive spells against undead. Plus the whole scarlet crusade, argent dawn lore as well, holy crusaders seeking to destroy the forsaken. And now paladins will be healing undead rather than smiting them, it just doesn't sit right with me.

But I take the point about priests as well, they also have undead-only spells. But AFAIK no undead-smiting lore.

Although, if we're talking paladins and lore, then only human males should be paladins. No dwarves, and no women. But that's never going to happen.

But what's the point of having horde and alliance now? PvP? We may as well just join the BG and get split into the "red team" and the "blue team" rather than horde and alliance, since there's little difference in the factions any more.

[Gaelan]

I'm hoping now they can make more racial abilities or class/racial spells/abilities to be the true difference between factions, but who knows.

[Hettar]

Bah, after BE joining Horde and demonic Draenei, you'd think alliance shaman and horde pallies wouldn't shock me. Well it does, I vote that I hate this change.

[Krollin]

I am looking forward to Windfury procs as an Alliance Rogue :)

[Trepidation]

I'm just looking forward to finally having "purge" on horde side. Can finally stop with wasting all my mana on non-healing tasks. J/K. I'm just happy to finally have a class that can "dispel all". Makes life much easier in so many encounters.

But on the other hand it will require quite a bit of re-tuning guides and such for encounters. Many of us have been killing a boss the same way for eons now...throw in another class and things may change a bit.

[degnar]

I voted "like it, but rather awkward".

I really do think this will be good long term for the classes, allow them to diverge, and make them more unique.

The awkward part is:
1) lore. ugh.
2) faction uniqueness. gone.
3) reworking strategies. Everyone seems to have an exact strategy for different encounters, and they have no idea how this change will affect them. They assume this will make their class obsolete, and are over-reacting. Things will change... thats life... you'll adapt. If you disagree, please tell me the exact makeup of your level 70 group, plus all of their skills and talents. Then we can discuss it.

Also, this is not a "quick fix". This is the type of thing Bliz spends a lot of time considering.

P.S. Great poll choices. :thumbsup:

[shadowrender]

I could live with this if they found a way to do it with the lore, I definetly do not want paladins in the horde.

I fear shamans may become redundant in raids, but that probably won't happen in any case :D

and thanks I just wanted a few different things, not a yes or no, that would be to static :D

[Seeo]

The rest of the Horde isn't evil either.

Excuse me, but Trolls are very, VERY evil.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

This thread is to find out if people are against or for the new change in the alliance and the horde

I myself am against it, however I will keep playing since my brother and sister wil to.

so whats your opinion?

This is my opinion on the whole matter: http://darkhelm.org/2006/07/24/people-say-that-the-new-shamanpaladin-mix-for-burning-crusade-is-a-cop-out/

To sum up, I think it is a good move all around. People hate change, and so there will be friction, but I think it will work out in the end, and actually benefit both Paladins and Shamans, as well as help dim the anti-paladin hype on the Horde, and the anti-shaman hype on the Alliance.

[Valas Azuviir]

I think Blizz should make a lore so that Forsaken aren't really evil. The rest of the Horde isn't evil either and then it would all make sense.

I don't get the Forsaken evil idea anyway, if I woke up as a zombie one day I wouldn't try to kill the rest of humanity either.

Thing you're overlooking though, is that the very magic that made them what they are now, is slowly twisting and corrupting them. So, while a "fresh" Forsaken might be relatively pleasant and helpful, one that's been around for a while, won't be (unless they're trying to put you at ease so they may better fool you).

Oh and those Forsaken at TB and the Barrens are not there to help restore the Barrens, their main purpose is to catalogue the varying plantlife and to try and find material for the new plague. Helping restore the Barrens is essentially a PR stunt.

At the end of the day, the main goal is to convert every living being on the face of the planet into beings like themselves, and to then go to war against the Lich King. So, Orc, Troll, Human, Tauren, NE, Gnome, Dwarf, they are all future brethren in the brother- and sisterhood of the decaying husk.

As for the Trolls. The Non-Horde Trolls are mostly evil. The Darkspears are of a more neutral alignment. No more munching on other sentient beings, willing to ally with and keep their word to other species, willingness to study the shared religion between the Tauren and Orcs (shamanism). You could almost call them friendly, which considering how xenophobic Trolls normally are, is a rather high compliment.

As for the rest, similar reasons to Degnar for the most part, though I'm on the dislike, but I can understand it side more.

Course, I'm one of the same chaps, who'd love to see the Forsaken booted from the Horde and into a third faction together with the Broken, Blood Elves, Naga and Nerubians. While, the Horde gets Ogres and Pandaren. Just give the Alliance back their HE and we're all set to go on a nice threeway dance.

Side note: Xlorep, you're overlooking one thing. Due to this change, Draenei may very well not have paladins, and that can also mean, that in order to facilitate the addition of the paladin class to the BE, that they lose one of their other classes. AFAIK, Blizzard hasn't said anything about this scenario at this point in time.

But, it wouldn't be the first time, that Blizzard has scrapped previously announced classes. I point to the Dwarven Mages as one example of that.

[det]

I am not a lore nerd myself, infact never played any Warcraft game before this. When I read summaries on the lore in warcraft it sound like an episode of Dragonball and Pokemon..wh assimilated so-and-soes power, changed into another form, came from another planet...it is rather weird anyhow (and full of plotholes, if you ask me. Thrall and Proudmore fought together, yet Orcs and Humans can't communicate anymore?)

Anyhow...

When I first heard about it I thought "Damn Blizzard, always good for a surprise". It solves so many problems AND is a huge incentive for players to start from scratch (Okay..so everyone will be a Female BE Paladin Jewelcrafter ^^)

But I know so many Paladin that I just dispise. Then again..I know so many HUMAN MALE Paladins I dispise. Don't mind Dwarfs and usually don't mind females....BE as Paladin might just work..but who knows..on some servers they might even be a shunned class within the Horde...

[SirBazturd]

Blizzard going with a quick fix.

They are here to make money after all.

[degnar]

Side note: Xlorep, you're overlooking one thing. Due to this change, Draenei may very well not have paladins, and that can also mean, that in order to facilitate the addition of the paladin class to the BE, that they lose one of their other classes. AFAIK, Blizzard hasn't said anything about this scenario at this point in time.


Interesting looking at the entire chart. I hadn't remembered the Draenei could be paladins. I *REALLY* hope that changes. I'm willing to accept shaman/paladin going across factions. But having one race be both classes feels wrong. Shaman == anti-paladin, and vice versa, imho.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Side note: Xlorep, you're overlooking one thing. Due to this change, Draenei may very well not have paladins, and that can also mean, that in order to facilitate the addition of the paladin class to the BE, that they lose one of their other classes. AFAIK, Blizzard hasn't said anything about this scenario at this point in time.

But, it wouldn't be the first time, that Blizzard has scrapped previously announced classes. I point to the Dwarven Mages as one example of that.

Well, Dwarven Mages weren't really developed heavily into the Dwarven Lore, IMO. Sure, they could strip the Draenai, but right now, I just don't see why they would do that. I mean, they spent the time to make the Draenai lore as it is, which tends to imply strongly towards Draenai paladins. Further, they had already listed the Draenai as paladins before, and at the absense of them stating otherwise, we are still left with Draenai being paladins. If they get that taken from them, then I'll revise my viewpoint.

Right now, there is balance on the horizon for Burning Crusade... more balance between race & class than there has been in the past. I'm not saying there will be balanced players between the factions, because honestly... people tend to favor playing Humans, and then Elves (in that order) in fantasy games, after those, everyone else is divided between what's left in varying degrees. Alliance has 2 of the "main" racial choices (with the most common choice, humans, in the mix), while Horde will finally get 1. I honestly think that all other things being equal, simply because of the way people tend to choose their characters, Alliance will still come out ahead more often than not.

I'm also not saying that Blizzard won't change anything. All I am saying is that with the data that is known, at this point in time, things are making sense. There is a balance like I mentioned before between numbers of races that can be a particular class per faction, with a slight favoring of paladins & priests for Alliance, and shamans & warlocks for Horde. It could change of course, but I'm stuck with the question of "why?" -- everything Blizzard has done, has been for a purpose, after all. We might not agree with that purpose, but it still is there none-the-less.

Interesting looking at the entire chart. I hadn't remembered the Draenei could be paladins. I *REALLY* hope that changes. I'm willing to accept shaman/paladin going across factions. But having one race be both classes feels wrong. Shaman == anti-paladin, and vice versa, imho.

Well, I think that's part of the reason Blizzard wanted to make the classes cross the faction lines, to help break up the notion that Shamans are the counter to Paladins. They are individual, independant classes, like all the others. People may have seen them as in opposition, due to those classes being placed on opposite ends of the factions like that, but in all honesty, a Shaman and a Paladin really aren't interchangeable, and they have no abilities that are designed to directly counter or negate the other.

[Volja]

People may have seen them as in opposition, due to those classes being placed on opposite ends of the factions like that, but in all honesty, a Shaman and a Paladin really aren't interchangeable, and they have no abilities that are designed to directly counter or negate the other.

I'm pretty sure Earth Shock was designed to stop a Paladins excellent healing abilities... :ponder:

I hate this change, i really do. I hate the blood elves also. Already hated the forsaken enough... well and every other race except Orcs, basiacally :P

[degnar]

Well, I think that's part of the reason Blizzard wanted to make the classes cross the faction lines, to help break up the notion that Shamans are the counter to Paladins. They are individual, independant classes, like all the others. People may have seen them as in opposition, due to those classes being placed on opposite ends of the factions like that, but in all honesty, a Shaman and a Paladin really aren't interchangeable, and they have no abilities that are designed to directly counter or negate the other.

Agree about this. I wasn't thinking about mechanics as much, but more about the lore (limited as my knowlege is :). My impression would be that a race would have one set of beliefs (i.e. religon vs. nature) and not both... they are at odds with each other. /ponder. But why not I guess. Could set up some interesting conflicts and story lines for the Draenei.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

I'm pretty sure Earth Shock was designed to stop a Paladins excellent healing abilities... :ponder:

lol

I hate this change, i really do. I hate the blood elves also. Already hated the forsaken enough... well and every other race except Orcs, basiacally :P

I like the blood elves. I'm open to change -- WoW should be somewhat dynamic, and Blizzard is notorious for making vast changes to a game with an expansion. Honestly.... I have characters of every race currently in the game. I also have 2 open slots, waiting to be filled with characters from each of the new races.

Agree about this. I wasn't thinking about mechanics as much, but more about the lore (limited as my knowlege is :). My impression would be that a race would have one set of beliefs (i.e. religon vs. nature) and not both... they are at odds with each other. /ponder. But why not I guess. Could set up some interesting conflicts and story lines for the Draenei.

Right now, Tauren have druids and shamans... and they are effectively two different sets of beliefs (two different views of nature). Night Elves have priests and druids (religion & nature), once again, two different sets of beliefs. I don't think that paladins and shamans are "in a vacuum" to each other. To my knowledge, the lore doesn't make them out to be mutually exclusive.

[Wintrow]

There should be an option "I don't really care, I'll just keep playing the game" :)

But there isn't so I picked "I love it" :)

[Naolin]

I like it, I don't understand the people that say OH NOES IM GONNA QUIT NOWS!!!

and then I see a lot of people saying, THIS WILL RUIN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HORE AND ALLIANCE!

well when I started the game Shaman and paladin werent the defining points of the factions for me. It was the races, I doubt Shaman and Paladin ever stood as defining faction points for me.

I can't wait to make my BE paladin :p

[Idol]

I acn understand why, and now Shaman and Paladins will evolve into different things, I just don't like it. I liked running through the Gulch hacking at paladins with a Shaman covering my arse, I liked the differences it made. hell, I even liked those stupid, immovable totems.