Dual Character Ethics

[Killmenow]

Here are some questions about the ethics of dual character playing. I'm looking for opinions and/or hard facts if anyone knows (or cares) any thing about this. (Getting ready for the flames!)

1) Is playing two characters at the same time ethical? Does it go against the spirit of the game for a single person to play two characters at a time? Am I hurting other characters by doing this?

My answer: I don't see any problem with it and its just another way of enjoying the game. I don't feel I'm hurting another player's experience. Yeah, there are times when I will go to an area and will more easily kill monsters or do a quest than someone playing singly. BUT that's their choice, they can always group up with someone else to help them -- or group with me if they ask. However, as a dual character player I'm always playing in a ready group, so is that somehow unfair?

2) Is playing two characters at the same time "legal"? i.e. Does Blizzard care or not?

My answer: I haven't read anthing about Blizzard banning people for dual playing. It gets talked about a little on the WoW forums but I've never seen any statements from Blizzard personnel on it. Am I missing something here?

3) Is using a device like an N52 Speedpad that allows keyboard macros to be created ethical?

My answer: Ok, yeah I use one of these. But I DON'T try to do multiple things with one character with one keystroke. I believe people have been banned for trying to automate several actions/spells with one keystroke.

4) Is it ethical to use ONE N52 device to issue commands to both characters?

My answer: Don't know, but that's what I do. I program different keys on the N52 to send commands to either the first or second character. In this way I don't have to move my hand between two different keyboards.

5) Is it ethical to have one keystroke send a command to both characters?

My answer: Don't know, but again, that's what I do. In some situations I have programmed a single key on the N52 to send a command to both players. For instance, when I play two mages together, one keystroke will have both characters fling a fireball at the same target. It's clever, but is it ethical? Should I be required to hit separate keys for each character?

6) Is using a Perl script to transmit keystrokes from one computer to another ethical? (of course if your answer to #5 is no, then this is also a no-no)

My answer: This is how I do it and to me its just a technicality. Should Blizzard really care how I have my input devices attached? Should I be forced to use separate devices attached to each of the computers? If I had a faster computer and a really large monitor I would just play both characters on the same PC (it works, I've done it) and I would have just one set of input devices. So is it be a big deal that I'm using a bit of Perl scripting to achieve much the same thing on two computers?

7) Is it ethical to use WoW LUA programming to automate the actions of a character?

My answer: I'm currently playing a mage/priest combo and have written an Addon that makes decisions for my priest on whether to heal, shield, attack or just stand there conserving mana while my mage is doing most of the work. Basically I've gotten my priest actions down to just one button. I'm sure there are a lot of addons out there that do a whole lot more than this. I'm a novice at LUA and the WoW API (though not a novice programmer), so I'm just touching the surface of possibilities.

8) If dual character play is ok, what about 3, 4, or 5 characters at a time?

My answer: I actually bought a 3rd subscription and tried out 3 mages together. It's a beautiful thing to watch 3 mages wind up and throw a fireball at the same time. However, it gets the attention of a lot of other players. Some who seem fascinated and others who get steamed up about it. One guy threatened to report me to a GM for botting. Am I botting?

Anybody got any good answers to these. Right now my only real "ethical delimma" is with #5, hitting one key to issue commands to both players. Should I really be concerned about that?

[Ebgreen]

Personally I don't think it is ethical. But either way it is pure opinion and I doubt that any of my positions would change your opinion just as none of yours changed mine. It's your game, play it the way you want, but as I would not even if I had the second account and the N52 to do it.

[Steamboat]

I'm not the best person to answer your post, but I think it's interesting so I'm gonna chime in.

A lot of your actions are kind of in a grey area. I am pretty sure though that it's against the rules to have your character do more than 1 action with only 1 input. For instance, if you can somehow program one key to perform a series of actions when you click it, that is ok. But you need to click it for every action. You can't click it once and have a series of actions performed, and you absolutely can't have it do actions with no clicking at all.

[Ezzaral]

I think Blizzard would frown upon 5,6 and 7. What you are doing is essentially using third-party software to play the game. Granted, it's not completely automated like a bot, but you are using external programs. They would probably take action against the account if it were discovered.

That of course is just my interpretation of things. They do allow a lot of lattitude with LUA addons and programmable input devices, so who knows. You're definitely skating the edge though.

[rgirty]

I have no idea, i'd love to see someone with some knowledge chime in here.

To make a very simple comparison if I acquired a bobblehead chicken much like homer simpson uses, and set it up to continually mash one key would that not be illegal as well?

[Killmenow]

Thanks for the input so far. One thing I've observed with dual character play is that you DON'T learn how to play a class fully. I leveled up a mage to 60 singly and learned that class well enough to that point, though she is still a "novice" 60 on the Strath-Scholo-BRD-LBRS circuit.

When I decided to dual play, I created a new mage and priest. Since I already know how to play a low-level mage, I'm not missing much there. However, with the priest I admit that I'm not learning how to play it properly. It's just a heal bot. On the other hand I don't have that much interest in really learning the proper way to play a priest so that hasn't really bothered me much.

I guess the main thing I'm saying here is that if you start out dual playing classes that you have no experience with, don't expect to really learn how to play them well when you get to higher levels and need to start grouping for high level instances. For one, you can't be as effective trying to play two characters in a five man group. I don't think you will be much appreciated by the other players in the group, especially if you have a healer that you can't play at 100%. Secondly, if you play just one of the characters you likely won't know their full strengths if all you've done is play them in a dual setting.

Still, my enjoyment of dual playing is making the leveling grind a little easier (though not as easy as you might think since you have to do everything twice, especially for collection quests and both characters share in the XP). I also like to just learn how to synergize different classes together.

My advice for dual players is to singly play whatever class you like the best all the way to 60 and beyond if you really want to experience the full content of the game and be good at it.

[Oatmealsmurf]

Why don't you just pay someone to play your character for you then you can just kick back with a drink and watch the damage your toon does without any effort whatsoever.

[HobJoe]

If one of your toons is strictly a healbot, are you at least taking on more mobs? It would be somewhat pointless to use this playstyle if your grinding at the same pace. But regardless as a mage you can only grind at a certain speed anyways, cause your mana's gone you have to drink anyways. Do you find it easier to grind or does it complicate things?

Also I'm curious...If you have a 60 mage, why would you level another one?

[Twoflower]

I think Blizzard would frown upon 5,6 and 7. What you are doing is essentially using third-party software to play the game. Granted, it's not completely automated like a bot, but you are using external programs. They would probably take action against the account if it were discovered.

That of course is just my interpretation of things. They do allow a lot of lattitude with LUA addons and programmable input devices, so who knows. You're definitely skating the edge though.

i think Ezzaral hit the nail on the head. You better pray that you dont get reportet too often ^^ or better yet, stop it right away :)

[LunarSolaris]

I agree... the last points really start to cross into grey areas, and while it may not technically be considered "botting", it's getting close to it.

I've heard of playing two accounts at once called "dual boxing". I don't personally have a problem with it. Blizzard may feel otherwise, but I don't know. If you have the ability to pay and play two accounts at the same time, then all the better... provided you're not "cheating" (i.e. using a bot, etc. which DOES break EULA). Again... reference back to the above concerns and "grey" areas.

I think most responses you're going to get in this forum come from a laypersons perspective, so it may not be as accurate a reflection than you'd get from Blizzard. Ultimately, they are the onces that decide if what you're doing is right or wrong with respect to game play... not us.

[Killmenow]

Granted, using the Perl script is a third party program, so its probably best to stop using that. Instead I can play both characters on the same computer, it actually works fine, just that I have to look at smaller screens and lag can be a problem in cities. I also have to turn off most of the eye-candy video options. Still it works.

That takes care of the 3rd party Perl script.

So, the question becomes how much lattitude they DO allow with programmable input devices. As stated previously I definitely don't use my N52 to make a character try to do more than one thing with a keystroke, but of course I do use it to make one keystroke have both characters do something.

No doubt I'm trying to rationalize all this to justify playing the game with the easy button.

[LunarSolaris]

I honestly don't have a clue about the programmable keyboard. I know many use such devices and I haven't heard about it being an issue. But... I'm not sure I've ever heard of it under the context of using two accounts on a programmable.

Ultimately, the best resource is to carefully read the EULA to see what it does (or doesn't) address, and perhaps ask some benign questions of Blizzard to see if you can garner a general "feel" on the issue (if that makes any sense).

I'm not sure anyone here on the boards are really qualified to truly answer this question and you're only going to get speculation. As I mentioned, Blizzard has final say so.

[Killmenow]

To Hobjoe: I've been asked this question before because I have perhaps 8 or 9 mages spread out among several servers. I guess its some mental flaw that keeps me coming back to mages. Actually the latest mage that I'm playing with the priest is on a different server with a different group of RL friends. We are all experienced players, but decided we wanted to play together and chose a new server to start fresh on.

[Killmenow]

To LunarSolaris: I haven't figured out how to ask the subtle questions to Blizzard yet, which is why I tried this forum. I know its all speculation by anyone outside Blizzard. I'm just too chicken to hit them directly with it.

[LunarSolaris]

I might suggest that your hesitation to ask Blizzard those questions might be a hint of the answer you're seeking. I do, however, understand where you're coming from.

You are right though... even though you're going to get opinion and speculation here on these forums, it can at least help point you in a direction toward an answer perhaps.

[Killmenow]

To Oatmealsurf: I know your response is sarcasm, but its a valid point of why I even bother to play if I'm just going to make it simple. I've thought about that a lot while I've been developing this "playstyle", if you can call it that.

The answer is that my enjoyment, at least for now, comes not really from playing the game per se but from seeing what I can do with it that's different/interesting while still trying to stay within bounds. I'm not out gold farming or trying to power-level characters for sale or anything like that.

The fact that they opened up the user interface is fascinating, so WoW is really more of just a playground to me for dicking around with it. I used to try that with Blizzard's Diablo II game, but it wasn't as approachable as this one.

Perhaps I've made a bad choice in doing this sort of thing in a public game. Oh well, each to their own. I'm having fun with it at the moment. Perhaps Blizzard will cut me off at the knees some day. That will just give me more time for Civ4.

[Ezzaral]

Well, I'm fairly certain that they are fine with dual boxing, as long as you are not automating the second box - meaning you are pushing the buttons and such. Most dual-boxers have macros for healing/assisting/etc and there again I think it's fine because you are initiating the actions. With the N52 sending info to both, it's probably a little over the line they would draw but probably not detectable on their side - since you could obviously hit a few keys on a couple of keyboards yourself and they don't have a problem with people using the speedpads.

I didn't know it was possible to send input to two independent devices with the N52 though. Shared USB hub? I never played around with all the stuff you can do with it, since I didn't like the feel of it.

[Valas Azuviir]

I honestly don't have a clue about the programmable keyboard. I know many use such devices and I haven't heard about it being an issue. But... I'm not sure I've ever heard of it under the context of using two accounts on a programmable.
.

We had one report back about one of those programmable keyboards, was a Guildmate or acquantance of Moopy iirc, a Mage as well. Link (http://infernix.net/wowban/) for the whole story.

[Killmenow]

To Ezzaral: Here's an explanation of how it works.

I program a key on the N52 to first send a keystroke to the character on the PC that the N52 is connected to. It then sends an ALT-ESC sequence which makes Windows rotate between open Windows. The only other Window I have open is running my Perl script. The N52 macro delays for about a quarter of a second to make sure ALT-ESC has switched and then it gives the command for the second computer to this Perl script. Then it sends ALT-ESC again to put the focus back on the WoW screen. The Perl script sends the keystrokes it received across my local network to the other computer where its picked up by a receiving Perl script and then the keystrokes are passed along to WoW on that computer.

At first I thought I would need soemthing like a USB hub, but that just seemed messy. After a little thought, the above idea occurred to me. The Perl script is not even all that sophisticated. It uses some basic IP programming and I found a Perl module that allowed it to send the keystrokes to the WoW screen.

[Killmenow]

To Valas: Yeah, I've seen that link before and read it through a couple of times a while back. It certainly gave me pause, and I even stopped using my Perl script for a week or two. But I'm back to using it so obviously I'm drawn for some reason to push the envelope.

I appreciate all the input so far. I may be persuaded to back off on some of the things I do. But this IS the World of Warcrack as they say, and this aspect has got me hooked!

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Here are some questions about the ethics of dual character playing. I'm looking for opinions and/or hard facts if anyone knows (or cares) any thing about this. (Getting ready for the flames!)

1) Is playing two characters at the same time ethical? Does it go against the spirit of the game for a single person to play two characters at a time? Am I hurting other characters by doing this?

I'm only going to answer this one, because the rest of them get rapidly out of control. Honestly, I do not see any problem with someone "two-boxing" in WoW. As long as they can do it. WoW is a game that does require a bit of attention to do things in it, combat is a bit more advanced than just autoattack. As long as you keep well within the ToU and EULA (particularly 3rd-party hacks, cheats, or other software/hardware that can automate actions) you should be OK. But I think someone would have more success overall by playing just one character at a time.

[Killmenow]

Agreed, I believe playing a single character will be more successful overall and essential for high level content so that you can play your character to full effect with people you group with. The enjoyment I'm getting out of it at the moment with the general leveling-up content of the game is taking on higher level quests and multiple mobs that I wouldn't be able to defeat with just one character.

I can't play two characters at a time as well as two players would play those characters in a given situation. However, not having to worry about what another player is doing or thinking means I can focus both characters on the task at hand. Of course two good coordinated players would run circles around me.

[Killmenow]

To Ezzaral: The N52 is an "acquired" taste so to speak. Fortunately I had read enough about it and was warned that I would probably hate this device when first got it. I did hate it and it took at least a week of playing to get used to it. Like a lot of others have said, I can't imagine playing without it now.

And that's not just because I dual-box. I used the N52 for about two months before I decided to dual-box. It's a great device for single or dual play.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

Agreed, I believe playing a single character will be more successful overall and essential for high level content so that you can play your character to full effect with people you group with. The enjoyment I'm getting out of it at the moment with the general leveling-up content of the game is taking on higher level quests and multiple mobs that I wouldn't be able to defeat with just one character.

I can't play two characters at a time as well as two players would play those characters in a given situation. However, not having to worry about what another player is doing or thinking means I can focus both characters on the task at hand. Of course two good coordinated players would run circles around me.

I did two-boxing in EverQuest. But that game, combat was actually able to be handled fairly well when two-boxing. I just don't see you being able to use the two characters to any more effect than me using one character. Especially running around as my Druid, who takes down just about anything in his path at level 60, including elites around his level. So I'm still left with the question of "why bother?" Using a macro-programmable keyboard, using chat-bot software... they both come down to the same thing, a violation of the ToU and you'd be up for perma-ban. Is that even something worth considering?

[Killmenow]

I never played any of the other online games, WoW is my first real experience with this genre, so I don't have anything to compare it to. This then is my first experience with dual-boxing. Perhaps I'll come to the same conclusion that it's not worth the effort.

[Killmenow]

After giving this much thought, I've decided to shutdown some of the methods I'm using for dual playing. I'm not giving up playing two characters, but will eliminate the use of the Perl script and macros in the N52 as part of how I play. However, I will keep the LUA programming for the priest and will purchase an additional N52 to attach to the second computer. Therefore both characters will require keypresses on separate devices appropriately attached to each PC.

Thanks to all for the comments and advice.

Note: the reason for the 2nd N52 as opposed to just using a regular keyboard is space and ergonomic considerations. I play from the comfort of my sofa on two notebook PC's, so there's not much room on my small table for two keyboards, two mice, and the notebooks themselves.