Thekal (tiger)

[Arkane Dark]

Okay my guild is having a little it of trouble with High Priest Thekal, we have killed him before but recently it seems that Zeaoleot Zath will get healed all of the time, we cant seem to do anything about it. We are using 2 off tanks to keep the zealeots away from Thekal and we are making sure at around 12% we stop DPSing them an move onto Thekal, but it seems that recently before we can get Zath down to 12-15% he gets healed:shocked:


With 10 minutes left of time we tried tanking the Zealoeots in between 2 of the cages on each side, and it seemed to be working, Zath hadnt healing himself and it was going fine.....everyone gets massive lag and DC's >.<.

So I was wondering if the "tanking the adds in between the cages on each side" strategy is the right way to go. Or wether there is a better, different strategy?

[Wasabee]

My old Guild Kited the Priests.

Setup:
Looking at the Thekal.
Left side Hunter #2 and MT
Middle - Hunter #1 EL Kite-a-doro
Right side - The rest of the gang against the cages.
RIght side - Main Healer for MT. THere is a perfect spot...you'll see it.

THe Pull:

Hunter 1 Shoots using Multi shot (target Priest 1), and shoots (priest 2) at max range. He runs toward the exit.

Meanwhile in the same part of the galaxy Hunter #2 Aim shot Thekal. Shot lands and Thekal comes for Hunter #2.

Tiger adds get pulled by the gang with ranged weapons. They kill tigers.

Hunter 1 is out the door and running towards the exit exit. (AKA the front door of ZG).

Hunter 2 waits for MT to hit Thekal, then FD and runs to help kill Tigers...

...meanwhile hunter 1 keeps running

Once the Priests are gone (out of the Tiger area) and the tiger adds are down, everyone kills Thekal. At about 15-18% you call to the Hunter to FD. He FD and the priests stand their and pick their nose.

Kill Thekal.

Wait for him to go Tony the Tiger on PCP. Then MT tries to hold aggro, team beats him down killing adds as soon as they come.

Priests Respawn to the front.

Thekal goes down faster then a person that is paid to do those kind of things were they do down for money...like...shoe polishers! That's it!

Note: It bugs sometimes. 1. Thekal is has some communication errors with the higher power that makes him Tony TT, so you could wait a bit. (we had a 3 minute wait...lol). 2. His friends pop back up and he runs up to meet with them. (Resets)

So there is one way.

[CaptainAqueduct]

Okay my guild is having a little it of trouble with High Priest Thekal, we have killed him before but recently it seems that Zeaoleot Zath will get healed all of the time, we cant seem to do anything about it. We are using 2 off tanks to keep the zealeots away from Thekal and we are making sure at around 12% we stop DPSing them an move onto Thekal, but it seems that recently before we can get Zath down to 12-15% he gets healed:shocked:


With 10 minutes left of time we tried tanking the Zealoeots in between 2 of the cages on each side, and it seemed to be working, Zath hadnt healing himself and it was going fine.....everyone gets massive lag and DC's >.<.

So I was wondering if the "tanking the adds in between the cages on each side" strategy is the right way to go. Or wether there is a better, different strategy?

Here's what my guild does on Thekal:

One tank on Thekal, one tank and 1-2 rogues on Lor'khan, and one MT and either one OT or all hunter pets on Zath. Everyone else spreads out DPS.

Why?
Well, Lor'khan is a shammy and heals people, so he needs to be interrupted. That's what the rogues are there for, just in case the warrior doesn't have shield bash ready/doesn't have the rage. Zath is a rogue and likes to gouge his tank, so he either needs an offtank or hunter pets to taunt him or be next on his aggro list.

DPS them all down evenly- Lor'khan has the least HP, followed by Zath, then Thekal. Once they are all down to about 5%, AOE them and make sure they die simultaneously.

Once they are dead, have everyone run inside and to the left side. Have all the tanks fight for aggro on Thekal. Make sure the rogues deal with the tigers, and just DPS thekal down.

[Mallstrop]

We have a tank each but also drain the mana of Thekal and Lor'khan, once the warlocks are finnished doing that, keep sticking on the hunter's drain mana just to keep their mana at 0.

We take the Rogue to 25% (they never stop DPS so we set the value high, ends up about 15%, enough for a tank to keep hitting him) the healer to 20% and then the boss to 15%, from there we gather them up and AOE them down.

We also have a rogue or 2 on Zath so they can stun lock him when he gouges the tank.

[Dallana]

You can actually see when the shaman heals if you keep an eye for it.

Put a Rogue and a Warrior on him at all times, and when he turns away and the gold lightning appears around his hands he is casting. Kick or Shield Bash him to interrupt.

Also have a Priest or Shaman dispel his lighning shield otherwise healer mana will get soaked up through all the extra damage that the tank and Rogue will take through hitting him.

[Dutchgrass]

Stop messing about with positioning and just teach your raidmembers to interrupt. Kick, Counterspell, Spell Lock, Earthshock, anything. Cast interruption is a basic skill everyone should posess. You use the same on the Bat aspect, so why not here?
Also, ignore Wasabee's weird strategy of kiting and exploiting his adds out of the fight and do it properly. It's not that hard a fight.
Don't start draining mana. It's an utter waste of time and dps.

Watch for the heal animation (or better yet get an addon like Spellalert or Natur Enemy Castbar) and just stop the heals as they are being cast.

[Erock]

Don't worry about draining Lor'kan's Mana, it's pointless and drains your DPS' mana.

Just have 1-2 rogues + your warrior tanking Lor'kan to keep him kicked, even if it means keeping 1 point saved and then kidney shot Lor'kan when kick misses.

Also, there's a trick I learned when tanking Zath. Typically Zath will periodically gouge and blind the current tank on him, well, if you turn your back to him and basically get your player model on his player model you will be able to hit him backwards and he WON'T gouge or blind you at all, once you have that trick down, there's no problems with tanking Zath.

[Mallstrop]

Don't worry about draining Lor'kan's Mana, it's pointless and drains your DPS' mana.

It saves us having to have rogues on him once we want to move onto the next target. Warlocks also take back any mana they spend casting drain mana.

[Arkane Dark]

Stop messing about with positioning and just teach your raidmembers to interrupt. Kick, Counterspell, Spell Lock, Earthshock, anything. Cast interruption is a basic skill everyone should posess. You use the same on the Bat aspect, so why not here?
Also, ignore Wasabee's weird strategy of kiting and exploiting his adds out of the fight and do it properly. It's not that hard a fight.
Don't start draining mana. It's an utter waste of time and dps.

Watch for the heal animation (or better yet get an addon like Spellalert or Natur Enemy Castbar) and just stop the heals as they are being cast.


Well how the hell is that possible when the cast seems instant.

[Dallana]

Well how the hell is that possible when the cast seems instant.

It's not Instant: Look for him turning away and for the Gold Lightning around the hands. Once you spot it you'll wonder how you ever could have missed it.

Also on the Mana Drain subject, we found that this offered no benefit whatsoever and as soon as the bosses regenned a tick of mana they would cast.

[Mackrealtime]

Dont mana drain. Its a waste of a use of warlock, just have a rogue and a war on Lor'Kahn and youll be fine. We actually dps in order
Lor'kahn
thekal
then zath since zath likes to blind mt and hit other people with aggro (Its safer and i didnt not know about placing zath so he cant blind or gouge, ill be sure to tell the tank =)
Then we dps them down to 20%(thats just us) and aoe
Normally the raid is a little wore out by now but we still do it. Just dps the tigers dont fast, normally we let hunters take care of them, and i throw them an occasional fear or so =) and just burn him down, he has a knockback that does a good bit of damage but u can position MT healer behind thekal so he wont go anywhere.
BTW on positioning of zath, we tank him out in the open left of the shrine, around that vodoo pile, Lor'khan we tank her near the other vodoo pile, and thekal we tank near that big stone box in front of his shrine. This boss isnt what i would call fun but good luck to you guys!

[Trepidation]

On the subject of draining mana, Thekal is worth draining. It isn't for phase 1, but phase 2. We have found a significant reduction in the amount of tigers he summons if we drain; about 50% or so. This can be done by a single hunter during the duration of phase 1. The last time we dropped Tony, he only got 2 summons off :)

[ocellaris]

All bosses in ZG have 100% casting ability with 0 mana. Try it out. Often is just "seems" that the fight is going differently because of drain mana, however it is always for other reasons (like you are just getting better).

[Dutchgrass]

It saves us having to have rogues on him once we want to move onto the next target. Warlocks also take back any mana they spend casting drain mana.

Mana drain being a good thing in ZG is an urban legend, based on early strategies.

Don't drain mana in Zul'Gurub, it's a waste of time.

One more time:
Draining mana on anything in ZG is useless.

[ocellaris]

Don't drain mana in Zul'Gurub, it's a waste of time.

Thank you!

One more time:
Draining mana on anything in ZG is useless.

:grin:

[Mackrealtime]

Mana drain being a good thing in ZG is an urban legend, based on early strategies.

Don't drain mana in Zul'Gurub, it's a waste of time.

One more time:
Draining mana on anything in ZG is useless.

Agreed, i believe the only boss that needs true mana drain is High priest Venoxis
(Snake Boss), And even if u dont just nuke her hard till snake then the other melee classes can step in. But if she has more than 1 person in melee range she does a nasty chain lightening which ive seen crit for 50k+ lol

And tigers, they arnt too hard, by the time your warlocks are finished draining mana, the tiger boss can be dead. He doesnt have alot of hp, personally the only hard thing about this fight is that knockback, which is pretty annoying.

[Gyoza]

having 1 MS build dps warrior might be nice to help cut down on the amount healed?

thats what I do and it seems to work alright...

[Darksigh]

And if you're still having trouble interupting Lor'Khans heals Mind-Numbing Poison works on her.

[WingedNazgul]

Mana drain being a good thing in ZG is an urban legend, based on early strategies.

Don't drain mana in Zul'Gurub, it's a waste of time.

One more time:
Draining mana on anything in ZG is useless.

So, what exactly are you trying to say here?

[Arkane Dark]

So, what exactly are you trying to say here?

I think it might be something with how it is imperitive to mana drain on every single mob in ZG? not sure I could be wrong..............................:wink:

[Sionzen]

My old Guild Kited the Priests.

Setup:
Looking at the Thekal.
Left side Hunter #2 and MT
Middle - Hunter #1 EL Kite-a-doro
Right side - The rest of the gang against the cages.
RIght side - Main Healer for MT. THere is a perfect spot...you'll see it.

THe Pull:

Hunter 1 Shoots using Multi shot (target Priest 1), and shoots (priest 2) at max range. He runs toward the exit.

Meanwhile in the same part of the galaxy Hunter #2 Aim shot Thekal. Shot lands and Thekal comes for Hunter #2.

Tiger adds get pulled by the gang with ranged weapons. They kill tigers.

Hunter 1 is out the door and running towards the exit exit. (AKA the front door of ZG).

Hunter 2 waits for MT to hit Thekal, then FD and runs to help kill Tigers...

...meanwhile hunter 1 keeps running

Once the Priests are gone (out of the Tiger area) and the tiger adds are down, everyone kills Thekal. At about 15-18% you call to the Hunter to FD. He FD and the priests stand their and pick their nose.

Kill Thekal.

Wait for him to go Tony the Tiger on PCP. Then MT tries to hold aggro, team beats him down killing adds as soon as they come.

Priests Respawn to the front.

Thekal goes down faster then a person that is paid to do those kind of things were they do down for money...like...shoe polishers! That's it!

Note: It bugs sometimes. 1. Thekal is has some communication errors with the higher power that makes him Tony TT, so you could wait a bit. (we had a 3 minute wait...lol). 2. His friends pop back up and he runs up to meet with them. (Resets)

So there is one way.


Man that seems waay too complicated. :grin: Ive seen it done with trying to keep the 3 seperated in phase 1 but the groups I've had the most success with on fecal tony er thekal is just tank them all up near their spawn point, make sure heals are interrupted and that way, its much much easier to aoe them down together at the end. Then in tiger mode, just keep the healers/cloth away from his knockback and tiger spawns.

[ocellaris]

Agreed, i believe the only boss that needs true mana drain is High priest Venoxis
(Snake Boss)

No no no no no no...

[Dutchgrass]

Agreed, i believe the only boss that needs true mana drain is High priest Venoxis
(Snake Boss), And even if u dont just nuke her hard till snake then the other melee classes can step in. But if she has more than 1 person in melee range she does a nasty chain lightening which ive seen crit for 50k+ lol

And tigers, they arnt too hard, by the time your warlocks are finished draining mana, the tiger boss can be dead. He doesnt have alot of hp, personally the only hard thing about this fight is that knockback, which is pretty annoying.

You agree that mana draining is never needed and then mention a boss where to drain mana.

Perhaps I should advocate mana drain on all mobs, especially the fish and crocodiles, maybe then people actually will stop draining mana. :rolleyes:

[Fercil]

Perhaps I should advocate mana drain on all mobs, especially the fish and crocodiles, maybe then people actually will stop draining mana. :rolleyes:

I've seen more than one new member of our guild being surprised how straightforward (and working) our tactics in instances are. Take this mana draining for example, it is in no way needed before AQ and the mobs that themselves drain mana there. Sometimes it amazes me how complicated people make simple things be. Same thing applies all the way from ZG to Naxx: learn to position yourselves, arrange healing and tanking and nuke the correct target. That is basically it. Each of those areas need adjustment depending on fight but it all boils down to those things. Note that positioning includes also moving during the fight. All these complicated mana draining tactics or similar usually just make things harder, rather have a look at what the mob does and think how you can avoid/stop him doing it right that moment.

Like the snake boss: Let melee go melee him and keep your mana users at some distance healing and nuking. See how it goes.

[Dutchgrass]

All these complicated mana draining tactics or similar usually just make things harder, rather have a look at what the mob does and think how you can avoid/stop him doing it right that moment.

Indeed. You're better off learning proper interrupting when needed, and making it into a routine instead of wasting time on draining mana. Make paying attention to the actions of your target and reacting accordingly second nature.
It'll be worth it in the long run, both PvE as well as PvP.