Why hybrids don’t heal in PvP, my perspective.

[Tytanis]

First, I want to say that this post is in no way a defense of not healing and/or supporting your group in PvP if you are a hybrid, this post is just to help the non hybrids understand where that behavior stems from.

I’ll work my way to it, let me prep your mind:

If you are like most people, you have a job that you go to for about eight hours a day for five days a week. More than likely you perform a specialized task for your employer. Perhaps you’re an accountant that just deals with ledgers and numbers for 40 hours a week, or maybe you’re a software developer that sits in front of a computer screen typing code all week.

Whatever it is that you do, I’m pretty sure that you don’t like to think about work on your “free time” correct? When you leave the office after a long day of crunching numbers, writing code, or editing journal documents, you don’t want to even think about it when you get home.

Work stays at work!

Maintaining a good separation between work and play is crucial to leading a healthy and happy life.

Now, let’s look at World of Warcraft. As you all know, raiding is a core part the game. In order for a guild to be successful at raiding, each of its members must be willing and capable to do a specialized task accurately and efficiently for long periods of time (for “hardcore” raiding guilds, this equates to at least six hours per night for at least four days a week). For a lot of people, raiding starts to feel like work.

Particularly for hybrids. Hybrids are pigeonholed into one style a play for the vast majority of their play time. They are forced to heal because it is their “job” in raids. The tanks tank, the rogues, mages, hunters, and locks do dps, and the priests, druids paladins, and shamans heal.

Now, for the warriors, rogues, mages, hunters and locks, its perfectly okay to pigeonholed them into one role because they can only do one role. For example, a mage can’t heal, nor can he tank, so its ok to force him do just one thing. The hybrids, on the other hand, can do multiple things, they just never get a chance to…

…except in PvP

You see, in most cases, PvPers queue up solo. When a player queues up solo, they can do whatever they want, they only determining factor is fun. Do what you want as long as you’re having fun.

Do you honestly think that after doing a “job” for 4 – 5 nights a week that consisted of playing healbot, that people would voluntarily do it some more when they don’t have to? Get real.
Read post number 32 in this thread.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=27992884&pageNo=2

Now, some people say or believe that one of the reason that PuGs loose so much is because “healers” don’t want to heal, this argument is thrown around a lot among the Alliance in regards to Paladins.

You know what, there might be some truth to that, it’s certainly not the only reason, but its probably one of the main ones. But I don’t blame the hybrids, I blame the general populace with special emphasis on raiders (particularly raid leaders). If people let hybrids play AS HYBRIDS in ALL aspects of the game, this wouldn’t be an issue.

Bottom line, when you force someone to do something all the time, that they don’t really want to, you set yourself up for them rebelling at some point.

When hybrinds enter BGs and start to actually you know…attack stuff, and not stand back and heal, that is there own way of rebelling against a system that forces them into a healing roll all of the time.

[moopy]

I do heal in BGs, but only when I think it's worthwhile- which is rare. I can outkill pretty much anything else on the battleground. I can cap more flags, score more KBs and generally do more of interest than most others (such modesty).

However, I don't step out of shadow to heal myself, so I sure as hell am not going to do that for some foul mouthed txtspk-spewing moron with the class and pvp skills of a lemon. However, if someone is doing something vital, and I trust them to be skilled enough to discharge the role, then I will- stepping out of shadow to help the FC in WSG, for example, if I think that my healing will be enough to save him, I don't bother if it won't. I also don't bother if the FC in question ran straight through crowds of the opposite faction screaming ""HEAL FFS". I can cap flags with a 95% sucess rate solo without any healing or help, simply by avoiding trouble- why others think they have a Bob-given right to play like a moron and blame their failiure on others is quite beyond me.

However, for me, it's not rebellion. I have a healing priest, specced disc and geared to the eyeballs for raid healing. I also have a shadow specced rank 10 undead priest specifically for PvP. If anyone mistakenly assumes that I am their employee and screams what they fondly believe to be "orders", they go on ignore. Friends who want help have learned to ask nicely, after making sure that they can justify their request on the basis of need- it they're taking the mickey, I set the squirrel on them.

On the long and tedious road to getting exalted in all three BGs, I have seen just about every sort of tactic good and bad, from both PUGs and PMs, mind you. I feel that I can make an educated decision. Also, unlike a lot of the participants, it's not my first endgame character, many people prove that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Now when PUGgers start screaming abuse at each other, I just leave them to it, and ignore BG chat. Often I find it more productive to get on with playing the game to the greatest effect possible rather than just standing around having a battle of wits with unarmed persons, while all the time you fall further behind on points.

[Starwynd]

That might be true, but I'm betting it's more than likely not. Your example was a hardcore raid group hybrid. More often than not, those people are the ones who queue up together as a premade and are... still healbots even in PvP. The ones who don't heal are the Shadow Priests, Feral Druids, Enhancement/Elemental Shamans, and Retribution Paladins in pugs. In all honestly, the only time these people would be "forced into being a healbot" would be in 5-10 mans, maybe in ZG or the beginning of MC if they're in a smaller raiding guild, which alot of them aren't even that far in because they just PvP.

My opinion why they don't heal? A couple reasons. Some of them may just be bad players (the kind that runs around doing "ZOMG CAT DPS!" while everyone dies around him, then gets owned in the face in 2 seconds flat). Some of them may just may not enjoy healing, but they should realise that tossing out the occasional heal will help them in the long run. Save the Warrior who's at 5% HP with 100 rage, or let him die and fight the 3 people he's attacking on your own? The last group would be those that rolled the class to do something other than heal, AKA people who rolled the wrong class. Don't get me wrong, shadow priests can melt faces, and shamans can mess things up (even though they go OOM and get wasted quickly). But Ret spec'd paladins and feral druids are an absolute JOKE. Unless either outgears me by an INSANE margine, I absolutely DOMINATE them without even having to try. Druids even moreso than paladins.

Now, I'm not saying that they should follow me around healbotting me. But when I see a Shaman sitting there frost shocking things, a druid running around in bear form WHILE NO ONE IS ATTACKING HIM, both while I die horribly without either of them lifting a finger to save me... That urks me just a little bit. Even if DPS'ing is you major concern, you have heal spells that allow you to heal others. They aren't self target only, and tossing 2 of them mid fight isn't going to make everyone suddenly notice that you exist and 2 shot you. "But rogues target me if I start healing people!" Rogues target me too, tardo, and I'm a warrior. Rogues just go after who they see as being the most unaware or vulnerable at the moment (AKA - Me, when you all leave me to defend a node solo, and the rogue has all of his cooldowns, plus prep, ready to smack me around with). And to the Druids/Paladins, please just reroll a class that can actually do damage. That way everyone will still die because of lack of healing, but atleast some of the other team will die aswell because you're doing more than sub-par damage.

On second though, Paladins, you can all stay Ret-specc'd until the expansion. And don't let anyone tell you that your blessings or heals are anything other than self target, it's all lies I tell you.

-Starwynd
Level 60 Troll Warrior
Whisperwind Server

[WingedNazgul]

You guys are over-thinking this one too much.

Unless you are in a guild raid or premade PVP group, people are going to play how they want. I like winning so I tend to do stuff that contributes to winning like healing. I heal PUG's. Sure, as Alliance I'll still lose most of the time but at least it wasn't because I wasn't healing.

Someone else might be in that same BG for different reasons. Maybe he just wants to rack up the HK's or KB's. Maybe he just wants his single losing Mark and wants to let the Horde win as fast as possible to get as much Honor as he can. Whatever. It's his $15 a month.

So if you want heals in a PUG BG, roll a healing class.

[FodderCannoned]

Also as i do have a 60 feral spec druid, by the time you shift out, and begin to cast your painfully slow heal, they are already dead. Without swiftmend/natures swiftness a druid can not heal in bg's unless it is healing a tank on a wm/drek or something like that(which i do). Plus in my feral gear if i try to heal, pretty quickly i wont have enough mana to change into cat form.

[Oatmealsmurf]

I don't see what's to get upset about. If you're pugging a BG how can you expect people to be on the same page as you all the time. I consider heals a bonus. And send thanks out when I am.

[Ebgreen]

I heal until I go OOM or someone notices and starts pounding on me after that you are on your own. I also don't think that other classes realize that they have a role in being healed. When a rogue FC with sprint on comes blazing by me at 20% health I have 2 choices, I can cast my painfully long cast time big heal that would actually be useful, or I can cast the small heal with a shorter cast time. If I cast the big one he will be out of range before I even get it off. If I cast the little one he will get a heal but at most it will make up for one swing from the twink rogue chasing him. Either way I get yelled at. Basically I heal when I can and don't when I can't and since I know my abilities, it is my call to make. Period.

[Aerath]

Let me give you a quick example of why I generally don't bother to heal (other than the occasional lose heal somewhere).

- Idiot warrior fights some people. I toss over 10k of heals into him
- Cos of this I go oom and go cat or bear (forgets which), so I can do something useful rather than swing with a silly mace at people.
- I get shouted at FFS ! STUPID DURID GO HAEL by said idiot warrior

[waylanderr]

I play a pally and in BG's I heal very seldom. Why? Some of you have touched on it, I dont normally melee and its fun. Notice I didn't say DPS because unless completely gimped to Reck/Ret build we dont do much damage anyway.

I participate in pvp for fun and some rank [KC]. For me its not the same as BWL or MC even, perhaps I'd feel differently if I was in an organized PVP guild but for now if our resources arent close GL tanks/squishies.

Worst thing that happens is the lame ass tells I receive from players in BG's.
"Heal More!"

Meh, bandage more bro. A Pugs a Pug.

Consecrate/Shock/HOJ FTW !!:dizzy:

[woeye]

Healing in a PuG is pretty much useless, to be honest. Don't get me wrong. I like to heal. I want to heal and keep my team mates alive. But in WoW's PvP this is simply not possible (at least in PuGs). As a priest you can compensate the damage output of one attacker. But you cannot compensate the focused damage of 2-3 players. Especially due to the style of healing in WoW. In WoW you typically heal lost health points. This style of healing is sometimes called "retro-active" healing. It would be better, however, to prevent incoming burst damage before it happens. The only way to do so is to use PW:Shield though it is considered a bit weak in endgame since it does not scale too well.
Next point is that healers are typically the number one target. Being a dwarfen priest I barely have any self-defence. Fear is against all those UD rogues is pretty much useless. People often say "then get a group which protects you". But still it's hard to keep the priest alive when the enemies focus all their damage on the priest. So as I said before: I really want to heal my team mates. But either I cannot compensate the burst damage or I find myself dead too quickly. Ah, and one more thing: Mana is finite. Energy and Rage not.
What a difference to Guild Wars. In Guild Wars a monk has a pretty high survivability. Maybe a monk cannot take down an enemy. But at least the enemy can't take down the monk so easy as well. In GW the trick is to keep the monk busy in order to prevent him from healing other team mates.

[Serrat]

though this was going to be a hybrid bashing thread at first >.<

anyway, i play a shaman, ive been many specs in the battlegrounds.

and for a long while ive been resto specced through choice(i dont raid)and ill keep tossing the heals out untill im dry, but for the most part healing in battlegrounds can be a thankless task.

with my healing gear i have around 5400 mana, nothing compared to a resto specced raiding shaman(i saw one with 7200 mana), but its usually enough to keep my team alive.

however i can guarentee theres going to be one whiney moron who whines that they didnt get a heal, plus its quiet rare that people thank you for keeping them alive so they can top the KB list:rolleyes:

maybe i dont mind healing in BG cos im not a healbot in raids, i know the other shamans in my guild are all enhanced or elemental specced, they heal the odd time when needed.

but to quote one of them after i mentioned a peice of healing gear was on AH

"its bad enough having to spend DKP on healing crap im not going to spend gold on it"

a lot of shamans who raid aint resto, there not healing specced as healings not what they want to do, my guild is a pvp guild(on rp server) the priests are shadow, the droods are feral,the shamans... well you get the idea healing spec isnt a priority, as a group when we do as a team many a time theres been no dedicated healer and hasnt ment a thing, we still win, healing can give you the edge, but its not going to be the be all and end all.

say the opponant is is healing, now you may have a shaman, he could either heal, or he could do wtf pwn there healer, thus negating there healing.

and hey bandages are in the game for a reason

[moopy]

- Cos of this I go oom and go cat or bear (forgets which), so I can do something useful rather than swing with a silly mace at people.
- I get shouted at FFS ! STUPID DURID GO HAEL by said idiot warrior

Testify, brother!

I tend to regard most PUGgers as less valuable to the sucess of the match than me having mana, if I am playing my shadow priest anyway. I can cap, I can defend, I can assasinate. I can rip a warrior in full t2 with 8500hp to shreds in seconds. I can shield myself, AoE fear, dispell, I have 45% physical damage reduc. and can easily survive being ambushed by all but the best/luckiest rogues. Wasting my mana on some screaming 12 year-old who basically doesn't understand how to play will actually reduce our chances of winning. Compared to the above warrior swinging his crappy fiery enchanted 2h around, I am ten ninjas :grin:

Of course, if someone who I trust to do a good job wants some backup while carrying the WSG flag, then I am there in the blink of a murloc eye. If the situation demands it, and our chances of sucess are higher, I will slip out of shadow and toss him some heals. However, it's essentially a cost/benefit tradeoff. Anyone who screams "HAEL FFS U NOOB" is probably better off dead and safely out of the way, in my opinion.

[woeye]

however i can guarentee theres going to be one whiney moron who whines that they didnt get a heal, plus its quiet rare that people thank you for keeping them alive so they can top the KB list:rolleyes:


Good point! Battlegrounds do not reward team-work. WoW rewards kills. If _you_ want to be rewarded by WoW why heal then?


... theres been no dedicated healer and hasnt ment a thing, we still win, healing can give you the edge, but its not going to be the be all and end all.

say the opponant is is healing, now you may have a shaman, he could either heal, or he could do wtf pwn there healer, thus negating there healing.


Exactly!

[moopy]

Good point! Battlegrounds do not reward team-work. WoW rewards kills. If _you_ want to be rewarded by WoW why heal then?


They most certainly do. If you have a team worth working with, you can win very quickly, and gain honour at a ludicrous speed. However, a lot of randoms are essentially best used as cannon fodder or chaff, as nothing you can do or say will stop them mindlessly scuffling in the middle of nowhere until the end of the match. Actually, here's a nice little (work-safe as long as watching a short video with WoW in it is OK) video which says it better:

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-7841802512113765045

Enjoy.

[Serrat]

They most certainly do

Enjoy.
someone needs to tell the idiot WSG GY farmers then, cos they seem under the impression the longer they camp the enemy GY the more they gain.

i tend not to step food in WSG now unless its with my guild or premade to avoid the potential burst blood vessels from happy campers who have no interest in winning.

" WSG is all about teh kills n00b!!!!111"

dunno why they stuck those flags at either end of the map sometimes

[swaldman]

Good point! Battlegrounds do not reward team-work. WoW rewards kills. If _you_ want to be rewarded by WoW why heal then?


Well... if you're in a situation where you know you have no chance of winning anyway (basically any Alliance group on my server pre-1.12. Less clear-cut now.), then spamming heals is a great (if slightly cynical) way to see the HKs flood in...

[MadVlad]

The day I see a rogue or warrior protect me, I'll start healing more.

[Ezzaral]

The day I see a rogue or warrior protect me, I'll start healing more.
It would certainly help if the melee classes had some skills that would facilitate that similar to pve. With no collision detection nor any sort of "intercept" type of skill, the only options to protect a caster are slowing, killing, or CCing an attacker. The fact that they can run right through and ignore that big burly warrior is pretty lame. If they would address that mechanic you would probably see more healing and teamwork in general.

[Mincemaker]

The day I see a rogue or warrior protect me, I'll start healing more.

Don't expect a rogue to do that. I prefer to take out THEIR healers.

[YuanTi]

I heal if i'm out of shadowform,if not,i'll throw a shield and get on with the killing,i have enough to do when fighting two warriors at the same time,i won't pop out of shadowform and loose 15% damage mitigation just because an ally is losing a one on one fight against a class he should own damnit!
Pissing me off whenever people start blaming the priests in shadowform for not healing when there are 3 paladins in the bg at the same time and the priest is already dominating the field with both kills and nodecaps

[Serrat]

The day I see a rogue or warrior protect me, I'll start healing more.

i agree but not just warriors and rogues, mages and warlocks too.

as a shaman i dont have any CC, so when i get agro, the healing stops, not like i can toss a fear and get right back to healing.

however again it comes down to which is better protecting your healer or killing theres.

its a shame that the pve awareness doesnt always extent to pvp, but then in pve if your healer died, you wipe, were as in pvp if thehealers dies, who cares we all just rez and go again.

[jvne]

I am a Shadow Priest. :) i have played WOW from the time it was realised in europe. I have warior 60 lvl , and a shaman 60 lvl ( 12 rank) now i am playing priest. And i wont heal a person who is for example lvl 42 in an battleground with level cap 49. I wont heal a crappy rogue, warrior, or any kind of player that cant do more damage than me . I will heal FC, I will heal a skilled player. SO DONT YELL "heal ffs" because if you are fighting 1v1 in a BG and you are loosing the duel YOU SUXX

[Mincemaker]

I heal if i'm out of shadowform,if not,i'll throw a shield and get on with the killing,i have enough to do when fighting two warriors at the same time,i won't pop out of shadowform and loose 15% damage mitigation just because an ally is losing a one on one fight against a class he should own damnit!
Pissing me off whenever people start blaming the priests in shadowform for not healing when there are 3 paladins in the bg at the same time and the priest is already dominating the field with both kills and nodecaps

Agreed with this one. People are always looking for someone to blame whenever they lose. And healing is one of them.

But in all losing BGs I had ever been in, it is always caused by two reasons and 'nobody's healing' is not one of them. It is always either 'we are disorganized' or 'they are much better geared and organized'.

[moopy]

someone needs to tell the idiot WSG GY farmers then, cos they seem under the impression the longer they camp the enemy GY the more they gain.

i tend not to step food in WSG now unless its with my guild or premade to avoid the potential burst blood vessels from happy campers who have no interest in winning.


If the randoms are just fighting in the middle, I go and get the flag myself. Most inexperienced randoms are incredulous or abusive when they see a priest take the flag. However, since I have a very good sucess rate and have grown a thick shadow priest's hide, this bothers me not a jot. If the team won't play nicely, I will just try and win the game for myself. I see it as good training, and rationalise it away as valuable in this respect, to stop myself getting too fed up with the sheer idiocy of your average WoW player in a BG random group.

[Ebgreen]

Last time I was in WSG someone told the FC to not run away from his healers. His response was that the healers should keep up with him. Since that is physically impossible then I'd say it sums up the situation I tend to see quite well.

[Fynious]

Wow, a lot of eliteist attitudes around here. I won't heal this person or that person unless they do this or that.. Who gives a rats ass. Stuff goes both ways, you want buffs, you want (x-character) to give you a hand when 2-3 people are ass raping you, then heal some.

I play with a Shadow Priest almost exclusivly and I'm a mage. I almost never ask for a heal and I'm shocked when I see green numbers on my screen. Except for the very nice Vamp embrace. Learn to heal your self. Bandages, Combat Potions, Regular Potions, etc. I mean come on, bandages are pretty much free and combat potions are a whooping 8s each.

I also have a Life stone, Shield Trinket, Demonic Runes, Tubers, etc etc. I don't like to die. I will use what ever I can to defeat the person I'm fighting. I love it when people say, Oh you pot'd.. yea so.. and you lost get over it. Life Stone, Tuber, Demonic Runes, Bandages = Free.. Combat Potions close to free... What do I care.

Over all I laugh at people in PUGS that yell for healing etc.. and I ask them why don't you bandage yourself.. and they reply.. I don't have any.. to steal a phrase from them... L2P...

Be self reliant first.. If you get a heal, thats great.. if not.. oh well.. rez up and take them down next time.. Stop crying..

Fyn

[woeye]

its a shame that the pve awareness doesnt always extent to pvp, but then in pve if your healer died, you wipe, were as in pvp if thehealers dies, who cares we all just rez and go again.

Right you are. WoW's PvP is not about tactics but about hack 'n' slay (not always, but mostly). The playing field in WSG is a bit too small imho. Once you've killed someone he reappears just seconds later. Loosing a team member means nothing and has no consequences. This is fine for those who do not mind about tactics or cooperative team-play but just want to have fun by killing things. But sometimes I wish there would be a battleground with more focus on tactical team play.
See, loosing your healer(s) in Guild Wars results in serious problems, quite often into game over. Healers in GW are the backbone. Healers in WoW's PvP are ... uhm ... dunno =)

[moopy]

Though oddly, the size of WSG is just about perfect in some respects. You can sacrifice your life helping the FC get out of the EFR, rez, mount up and be ready to cover her/him most of the way across the field, assuming the FC isn't an idiot who pops travel form, and then runs straight at crowds of enemies while the healers struggle to catch up, and then rewards them with a string of txtspk obscenities.

Aaaand breathe...

I have to say though, people who are doing a good job will recieve the odd shield and dispell at key moments, even if I am in shadow form. However, the people who stand next to you screaming "HAEL FFS U NOOB" while you're eating and drinking really do need to learn to bandage/eat/spell/communicate/play and possibly promise never to reproduce.

[Mincemaker]

Right you are. WoW's PvP is not about tactics but about hack 'n' slay (not always, but mostly). The playing field in WSG is a bit too small imho. Once you've killed someone he reappears just seconds later. Loosing a team member means nothing and has no consequences. This is fine for those who do not mind about tactics or cooperative team-play but just want to have fun by killing things. But sometimes I wish there would be a battleground with more focus on tactical team play.
See, loosing your healer(s) in Guild Wars results in serious problems, quite often into game over. Healers in GW are the backbone. Healers in WoW's PvP are ... uhm ... dunno =)
Oh, really? Then how do you explain why every WSG PUG I had ever been on always lose? These guys are only concerned with raking kills. Oh, and WSG premade raids always end up winning, and these guys have strategies.

In other words, tactics pwns hack and slash. Sure, they come back a few seconds later, but will that do anything to you when you had five people in the midfield covering each other's back and 3 defenders and 2 flag runners who runs like the wind back to the midfielders? And defenders who know precisely what must be done?

[owlx]

Right you are. WoW's PvP is not about tactics but about hack 'n' slay (not always, but mostly). The playing field in WSG is a bit too small imho. Once you've killed someone he reappears just seconds later. Loosing a team member means nothing and has no consequences. This is fine for those who do not mind about tactics or cooperative team-play but just want to have fun by killing things. But sometimes I wish there would be a battleground with more focus on tactical team play.
See, loosing your healer(s) in Guild Wars results in serious problems, quite often into game over. Healers in GW are the backbone. Healers in WoW's PvP are ... uhm ... dunno =)


Not sure what game you are playing but it must be something completely different than me. While WSG is a small battlefield, strategy and tactics rule their just as they do on any other BG. Running into the fray and dying has severe consequences. If you die and have a 30 sec res coming.........that's enough time for your team to lose a flag.

Healers are important as are hybrids. Personally I dont' expect anyone to heal me unless they are a guildmate. I do expect hybrids to use their utility abilities. Earthbind, Blessing of Freedom, Travel Form......... If I get a heal once in awhile..........great, but, i don't expect it. I specifically don't paly priest because I hate listening to people who all think they are the most important player on the field. They want heals but don't protect their healer. It's a two way street.

If you want heals while your in a pug.............guard your healer first. If they are not healing then find another until they realize they can do better with you than without.

[woeye]

Oh, really? Then how do you explain why every WSG PUG I had ever been on always lose? These guys are only concerned with raking kills. Oh, and WSG premade raids always end up winning, and these guys have strategies.

Uh, uh, how could I criticise the Holy World Of Warcraft :grin:
Ok, maybe my point of view was too much influenced by PuGs ;-)
Playing a priest or hybrid with the aim to heal in PuGs is indeed a very frustrating experience in WoW's PvP.

[owlx]

Right you are. WoW's PvP is not about tactics but about hack 'n' slay (not always, but mostly). The playing field in WSG is a bit too small imho. Once you've killed someone he reappears just seconds later. Loosing a team member means nothing and has no consequences. This is fine for those who do not mind about tactics or cooperative team-play but just want to have fun by killing things. But sometimes I wish there would be a battleground with more focus on tactical team play.
See, loosing your healer(s) in Guild Wars results in serious problems, quite often into game over. Healers in GW are the backbone. Healers in WoW's PvP are ... uhm ... dunno =)


Not sure what game you are playing but it must be something completely different than me. While WSG is a small battlefield, strategy and tactics rule their just as they do on any other BG. Running into the fray and dying has severe consequences. If you die and have a 30 sec res coming.........that's enough time for your team to lose a flag.

Healers are important as are hybrids. Personally I dont' expect anyone to heal me unless they are a guildmate. I do expect hybrids to use their utility abilities. Earthbind, Blessing of Freedom, Travel Form......... If I get a heal once in awhile..........great, but, i don't expect it. I specifically don't paly priest because I hate listening to people who all think they are the most important player on the field. They want heals but don't protect their healer. It's a two way street.

If you want heals while your in a pug.............guard your healer first. If they are not healing then find another until you get someone that realizes they can do better with you than without.

The problem in wow is that everyone thinks their class is the backbone.


As far as guild wars is concerned.......that's not really a fair comparison due to the way multiclassing works. Anyone can splash healing abilities in their build and be self-sufficient. It's a game of Hybrids

[degnar]

Interesting thread... glad it reappeared. Re hybrids in general: hybrids are hybrids. If they go dps, fine. If they heal, fine. Unless they are in a pre-made, and have a defined role as a healer, they are free to do what they want. Expecting anything else is stupid. Actually this goes for pretty much anyone in a PUG. When people start demanding things, or throwing insults, /ignore them immediately. That is a sure sign they don't know what they are doing, and will probably make a mess of the BG.

That being said, healing has a huge impact on BGs. Good healing will help a team dominate. Killing healers is also key. As a healing priest, the best opponents I face are those that target me constantly and keep me out of the battle.

Tactics rule WSG. A team that works together (i.e. healing, not outrunning support, crowd controlling, focus firing, etc.) will dominate.

[Mincemaker]

Interesting thread... glad it reappeared. Re hybrids in general: hybrids are hybrids. If they go dps, fine. If they heal, fine. Unless they are in a pre-made, and have a defined role as a healer, they are free to do what they want. Expecting anything else is stupid. Actually this goes for pretty much anyone in a PUG. When people start demanding things, or throwing insults, /ignore them immediately. That is a sure sign they don't know what they are doing, and will probably make a mess of the BG.

That being said, healing has a huge impact on BGs. Good healing will help a team dominate. Killing healers is also key. As a healing priest, the best opponents I face are those that target me constantly and keep me out of the battle.

Tactics rule WSG. A team that works together (i.e. healing, not outrunning support, crowd controlling, focus firing, etc.) will dominate.

And this applies even in WSG zergs. A zerg where everybody's 'training' is going to fall apart. A zerg that moves like a swarm of hungry locusts are frequently successful.

[owlx]

zerging is great for people that lack any real concept of strategy. any decent group can easily break a zerg. CC the main damage dealers, focus fire the healers and then come back to clean up the rest.

zerging works when you have and you are facing a bunch of under equipped noobs that don't know what they are doing. If you come accross even a couple good players they can wreck your zerg.

My guild runs multiple 5 man groups all the time and we consistantly take down larger zergs with ease.

[moopy]

Oh, really? Then how do you explain why every WSG PUG I had ever been on always lose? These guys are only concerned with raking kills. Oh, and WSG premade raids always end up winning, and these guys have strategies.


Dunno, I have seen alliance PMs go down to horde PUGs more than once, in both WSG and AB. Not all PUGs are created equal, especially with a charismatic and experienced leader who can do more than yell "OMG FFS!!!!!!".

Oh, and on the subject of zergs, the most efficient way to deal with them (in AB, at least) is to ignore them, and send a couple of people to cap the nodes as they leave. Works like a charm.

[woeye]

The problem in wow is that everyone thinks their class is the backbone.


Or maybe they think "I don't need anyone".

As far as guild wars is concerned.......that's not really a fair comparison due to the way multiclassing works. Anyone can splash healing abilities in their build and be self-sufficient. It's a game of Hybrids

If you speak of 4vs4 random arenas, yes. Otherwise I beg to differ. In random areans you cannot count on a healer (almost same problem as with PuGs in WoW). But GvG is quite a different story. Though every class has a secondary class only the primary class has access to their primary attribute. And "Divine Favor" of the monk class makes a damn good difference.

But it was not my intention to compare GW to WoW.
From MY experience (which is mostly based on PuGs <- P.u.G. you've got that? :wink: ) PvP in WoW is mostly hack 'n' slay and therefore healing is not very effective. Yes, yes, in organized raids it makes a difference, no doubt. But not everyone is in the luxus to have an organized raid, especially on Alliance side and especially since 1.12.

[WingedNazgul]

Yes, yes, in organized raids it makes a difference, no doubt. But not everyone is in the luxus to have an organized raid, especially on Alliance side and especially since 1.12.

Luxus? I'm guessing you mean luxury. It's really not that hard to form a raid. All it takes is posting on the LFG channel for some like-minded individuals. Once you have enough, join as a group and there you go.

[owlx]

From MY experience (which is mostly based on PuGs <- P.u.G. you've got that? :wink: ) PvP in WoW is mostly hack 'n' slay and therefore healing is not very effective. Yes, yes, in organized raids it makes a difference, no doubt. But not everyone is in the luxus to have an organized raid, especially on Alliance side and especially since 1.12.


I can assure you healing does make a difference. you don't even need a full raid. just get two friends together and roll as a three man group. One damage dealer, one with some sore of CC, and one healer. stick together and see what a completey different game it becomes.

yes, pugs are mostly in it for themselves. Have you ever tried whispering a healer and told him that you'd watch his back if watches yours?........Sometimes that's all it takes and you can have some amazing results, maybe even make a friend.

I know that often times one bad experience, or several, can lead you to a certain conclusion about how every other experience will be. If you go into the BG with the mindset that all pugs are bad........that's what you're going to get. Keep an open mind and keep trying.

[owlx]

If you speak of 4vs4 random arenas, yes. Otherwise I beg to differ. In random areans you cannot count on a healer (almost same problem as with PuGs in WoW). But GvG is quite a different story. Though every class has a secondary class only the primary class has access to their primary attribute. And "Divine Favor" of the monk class makes a damn good difference.


Since you seemed to be specifically speaking about pugs, i assumed you meant 4v4.........because GvG is not comprable to a pug. It would be comprable to two full guild raids facing each other in WOW. A well organized guild run doesn't have to worry about the same pitfals that a pug faces, butcause everyone knows their roll.

Every game has it's fair share of bad pugs........when your looking at smaller groups, people tend to stick together better. Maybe they should make a 5v5 bg for WOW. I bet that would be a good way to promote teamwork

[WingedNazgul]

Since you seemed to be specifically speaking about pugs, i assumed you meant 4v4.........because GvG is not comprable to a pug. It would be comprable to two full guild raids facing each other in wow. Every game has it's fair share of bad pugs........when your looking at smaller groups, people tend to stick together better. Maybe they should make a 5v5 bg for WOW. I bet that would be a good way to promote teamwork

They are. Arenas.

[woeye]

Since you seemed to be specifically speaking about pugs, i assumed you meant 4v4.........because GvG is not comprable to a pug. It would be comprable to two full guild raids facing each other in wow. Every game has it's fair share of bad pugs........when your looking at smaller groups, people tend to stick together better. Maybe they should make a 5v5 bg for WOW. I bet that would be a good way to promote teamwork

Right you are. And this is why I am looking forward to BC so much :grin:

[Starwynd]

WSG is the BG that takes the least amount of strategy, honestly. Make a "premade" with essentially 10 random people, only requirement being that they will stick together as a team and heal each other. That right there will give you a win in WSG, because the only real "tactic" is for the offense to zerg together and heal each other, then kill the other teams flag carrier on the way back across the field.

[owlx]

WSG is the BG that takes the least amount of strategy, honestly. Make a "premade" with essentially 10 random people, only requirement being that they will stick together as a team and heal each other. That right there will give you a win in WSG, because the only real "tactic" is for the offense to zerg together and heal each other, then kill the other teams flag carrier on the way back across the field.

False

6789......

[woeye]

yes, pugs are mostly in it for themselves. Have you ever tried whispering a healer and told him that you'd watch his back if watches yours?........Sometimes that's all it takes and you can have some amazing results, maybe even make a friend.


Since I typically play healing classes its more like "wtf healz u noob". Yeah, ok, it's not everyone I know, even from my own experience. What I noticed, however, is that clothies seem to stick together better, at least from my experience. I remember a mage in our group some weeks ago. After we teamed up together we had a lot of fun.

I know that often times one bad experience, or several, can lead you to a certain conclusion about how every other experience will be. If you go into the BG with the mindset that all pugs are bad........that's what you're going to get. Keep an open mind and keep trying.
I will do, promised :wink:

[owlx]

They are. Arenas.

I've never done that, is it a preset instance like the BG's or are you talking about Gurabashi Arena?

[woeye]

WSG is the BG that takes the least amount of strategy, honestly. Make a "premade" with essentially 10 random people, only requirement being that they will stick together as a team and heal each other. That right there will give you a win in WSG, because the only real "tactic" is for the offense to zerg together and heal each other, then kill the other teams flag carrier on the way back across the field.

@owlx

But still horde wins against us (PuGs) this way pretty often. 10 horde players rushing into our base, killing the defenders easily, grabbing the flag and killing our flag carrier on the way back. As a healer it's not easy to compensate the incoming spike damage of so many players attacking the flag carrier.
Maybe you have some hints for me how to counter this? Always glad for any tips and tricks.

[woeye]

I've never done that, is it a preset instance like the BG's or are you talking about Gurabashi Arena?

From 1up.com:

Player versus Player combat will receive a major overhaul in Burning Crusade, one far greater than the upcoming cross-server battlegrounds system Blizzard recently detailed. Burning Crusade will introduce "Arena PvP." Lead designer Tom Chilton explains this new form of PvP: "It uses a team-based approach. So, much like forming a guild, you can form an arena team. You'll be able to go and get yourself an arena team charter; it can be for a 2-on-2 format, a 3-on-3 format or a 5-on-5 format." Chilton continues, "For example, for a 2-on-2 team you could have four people on the roster. For a 5-on-5 team you could have 10 people on a roster. You can have your substitutes, your benchwarmers, etc. And that should make it interesting, because we use a seasonal-based concept for the arenas. So you form your team, and your team may change in rating throughout the season. At the end of each week, based on your team's rating, you get a number of points that you can spend on the gear."

Chilton's mentions of "points" may confuse current WoW PvPers who are accustomed to the awkward ladder system the PvP grind entails. That system of gaining honor and ranking up is over with in Burning Crusade: "The Honor System in the expansion will no longer be a competitive ladder. The Honor System will be a system where you gain honor points a lot like you do today, but you then just use those honor points as a currency, effectively. That will include items that were previously earned through reputation. We'll kind of roll those into the Honor System, and it will also include a whole lot of new equipment for level 60 to 70 and beyond," Chilton says.


Reminds me of Guild Wars :grin:

[WingedNazgul]

I've never done that, is it a preset instance like the BG's or are you talking about Gurabashi Arena?

The Arena system isn't in yet. It's a planned BC feature.

Players will be able to form teams to compete in an arena located in a neutral area. The arena allows for 2v2, 3v3, and 5v5. Teams function similar to guilds with their own chat channel. A team may be up to twice as large as the number of participants. So a 2v2 team can have up to 4 players. The rewards for the arena will be on par with even the most powerful PvE rewards.

[moopy]

@owlx

But still horde wins against us (PuGs) this way pretty often. 10 horde players rushing into our base, killing the defenders easily, grabbing the flag and killing our flag carrier on the way back. As a healer it's not easy to compensate the incoming spike damage of so many players attacking the flag carrier.
Maybe you have some hints for me how to counter this? Always glad for any tips and tricks.

If your team suck too much, there's not a lot that can be done. I have a couple of priests, and the non-shadow one can kick out about 1k HPS, but even that isn't enough to save a truly bad alliance PUG.

[owlx]

Since I typically play healing classes its more like "wtf healz u noob".


Yeah I see those guys........have a ton on them on my ignore list.

I mostly play warriors. I have at least one in every bracket. I know that the healers are my lifeline. I have a macro preset to assist my healer. When I'm in a pug I just swap in the name of whoever is the healer and I stick with him unless he abandons me and goes full offense.

[woeye]

@moopy

As I said: healing without a good team is not easy. Trying to heal when you get earthshocked, kicked, gouged, feared, pummeled and what not is not easy. Besides the fact that mana is finite ...

[owlx]

@owlx

But still horde wins against us (PuGs) this way pretty often. 10 horde players rushing into our base, killing the defenders easily, grabbing the flag and killing our flag carrier on the way back. As a healer it's not easy to compensate the incoming spike damage of so many players attacking the flag carrier.
Maybe you have some hints for me how to counter this? Always glad for any tips and tricks.


Well, there is no accounting for bad pugs. A flag carrier needs to be aware of who he has available to defend him. If he runs back towards the opposing zerg without support then thats his bad.

as far as defending......... not trying to do it in your own flag room is a start. If you can control your own tunnel and ramp, then your opponents can't get into your base. If a rouge sneaks by then he's gonna have to run out the GY and that's always a dangereous move.

How to defeat a zerg:
Identify the threats. Usually neutralizing the damage dealers and killing the support is the way to go. Sometimes it's better to let the flag carrier go. If you get rid of his support, your rezers or your returning flag carrier has a shot at catching him and at least slowing him until your main foce can take him down.

The best thing you can do is find someone who seems to know what they are doing and jsut stick with them. If all else fails than stay on defense (which doesn't necessarily mean stay in the flagroom)

[mtgap]

I don't have any healing classes (I love DPS, being able to smash the enemy with superior damage), so I don't know much about this. If I had a priest, I would give people shields and move on. End of story. A shield is instant-cast, and worth like 2 greater heals (I think?).

[owlx]

um.........no, not really. Maybe you should just stick with the damage dealing classes. Shields are good and all, but, that's hardly the proper way to provide healing support.

[degnar]

yes, pugs are mostly in it for themselves. Have you ever tried whispering a healer and told him that you'd watch his back if watches yours?........Sometimes that's all it takes and you can have some amazing results, maybe even make a friend.


As a healer I've had amazing experiences because of this. A warrior whispered me to heal him, and he vowed to protect me. He usually ended up with most killing blows, and I would have most HKs from healing him and a few others. We rarely died, and I went through 3 WSG games in a row without a single death.

The only problem with the warr+priest combo is that it was a little too focused on kills only. Personally I like flag support more, and stick like glue to whoever is the main runner. Capping flags is what WSG is about. Capping == winning == more honor.

@mtgap: do you win? do you care if you win or not? You are so off about healing that I don't know where to begin. I just hope you never make comments to healers in game...

[AeroJonesy]

Spell alert makes things less friendly for healers as well. You can't just hide and try to drop some spells without being seen since spell alert will trigger regardless of how well you hide.

[Metatron]

I don't have any healing classes (I love DPS, being able to smash the enemy with superior damage), so I don't know much about this. If I had a priest, I would give people shields and move on. End of story. A shield is instant-cast, and worth like 2 greater heals (I think?).

A shield uses an awful lot of mana... And if I ever gonna pop up a shield in a bg it's gonna be for a flag carrier who has a chance or for myself. Oh. And sucidal aoe mages are often worthy of a shield too! Healing? Well yeah. If I can. And it's gonna be worth it. Otherwise I look after my suicidal mage friend and join in the fun when of going nuts on the damage when the odds are in our favour.

[Mincemaker]

Dunno, I have seen alliance PMs go down to horde PUGs more than once, in both WSG and AB. Not all PUGs are created equal, especially with a charismatic and experienced leader who can do more than yell "OMG FFS!!!!!!".

Oh, and on the subject of zergs, the most efficient way to deal with them (in AB, at least) is to ignore them, and send a couple of people to cap the nodes as they leave. Works like a charm.

Which is why nobody in my server zergs in AB. But in WSG, on the other hand, they zerg. Anyway, Horde PUGs in Jubei'thos are so unbearably stubborn and idiotic that just what sounds like a hint of strategy is going to get yourself rewarded with 'noob'.

Needless to say, we lose all the time.

And their zerg looks more like a train than a flood. Gee, if you guys are going into the tunnel one by one, you are going to get owned.

[Dahbooo]

Firstly, I've got to say I LOVE the comment "rather than just standing around having a battle of wits with unarmed persons"... that's just beautiful!

I play a rogue, only a rogue. I love the class, I love my char and everything that goes with it. When it comes to healing, I only have pots and bandages. My PvP experience is limited but I really do get annoyed when I see "FFS HEAL!! ****IN NOOB!!" spammed over the channel. Personally, I see healing as more than a bonus; if I get myself into a fight and am loosing, so be it, if I get ambushed before I can ambush, so be it but if someone heals me at ANY time, they will ALWAYS get at least "/w [name] TY!" Why? Because they didn't have to but went out of their way to help me.
The same goes the other way; if I see a green in trouble, either on BG's or out in contested territory, I will go out of my way to help them, even if it's just providing a meat-shield or a small distraction and it's nice afterwards to get "ty m8".
I see a close friend play a priest and a heal-specced druid and he gets a fair deal of abuse on bg's from some 12 year old warrior who thinks he can plow into the horde and expects the rest of the team to be helping him, and only him. I think most of the time it's people who have utterly no experience of other classes who will be abusive, if they knew that a decent heal can take what? 2.5, 3 seconds to cast? Plus have to be in the line of sight and range and the casting only get longer if under attack, then maybe they would show a little more gratitude when a heal does come their way and shut up when it doesn't. Afterall, they've got pots and bandages.
To all hybrids, healers and anybody really, just play it your way; if you want to heal, do it, personally I won't give any abuse if I don't get healed and will thank if I do. And to all the idiots who think healing is a right they deserve to expect; One word of abuse and you'll never get healed again, don;t expect healing, pray for it.

[woeye]

as far as defending......... not trying to do it in your own flag room is a start. If you can control your own tunnel and ramp, then your opponents can't get into your base. If a rouge sneaks by then he's gonna have to run out the GY and that's always a dangereous move.

How to defeat a zerg:
Identify the threats. Usually neutralizing the damage dealers and killing the support is the way to go. Sometimes it's better to let the flag carrier go. If you get rid of his support, your rezers or your returning flag carrier has a shot at catching him and at least slowing him until your main foce can take him down.


Thanks for your tips. Thought about this myself, too. Now I need to find a good group :smiley:

Before 1.12 we knew eachother at least a bit and we knew what to expect from eachother. Now it have become much more difficult in PuGs for far more players from different realms get mixed together. The new cross-realm BGs have its advantages. But they have some disadvantages as well imho.

[woeye]

if they knew that a decent heal can take what? 2.5, 3 seconds to cast? Plus have to be in the line of sight and range and the casting only get longer if under attack, then maybe they would show a little more gratitude when a heal does come their way and shut up when it doesn't. Afterall, they've got pots and bandages.

Well said! I know so many players who have not trained first aid :rolleyes:
Even in PvE it can very useful at times.

don;t expect healing, pray for it.
No need to pray. Just help me every now and then and the healing powers vested in me shall give you endless life :grin:

[Pin]

When I used to play a Feral druid in BG, I'd heal dps classes, but very often run out of mana. Then my friends would die and the 2-3 enemies would come for me. Then I'd die. I don't play my druid anymore.

My partner currently plays a priest and I play a lock. When we BG I accept that I'm not her primary healing target anymore, but I usually don't need it as much as other people.

That's the interesting thing, that some people have already mentioned: some people aren't worth healing. Usually because they're stupid, will run into the middle of 5-6 enemies and then wonder why they died. Sometimes they don't know how to protect their healer and then the healer has to spend time looking after themselves, meaning no heals for anyone else. People also don't seem to realise that you can't heal if you are CC'd/stunned/feared or OOM.

Recently though, I wouldn't say healing is a thankless task. My partner gets at least one whisper per game saying "nice healing" or "thanks for the heals" or something similar. This encourages her to keep going, although she would anyway as she's holy spec at the moment and can't really do much else. :D

[degnar]

Recently though, I wouldn't say healing is a thankless task. My partner gets at least one whisper per game saying "nice healing" or "thanks for the heals" or something similar. This encourages her to keep going, although she would anyway as she's holy spec at the moment and can't really do much else. :D

I've noticed this more too. Usually one /whisper or /bg thanks per game. With x-realm, the groups are more scattered... you'll only see the same people for a few games. And there are good folks out there that really do appreciate the heals in these PUGs. (I've also noticed the opposite as well... a little more complaining if you don't heal.)

[Mackrealtime]

To all those people that want to "DPS" In raid Roll a dps class.
The day i see a pally/shaman outdps a "smart" Warlock/mage/hunter/rogue/warrior or even. A shadow priest.

God gave palllies retribution for 1 reason. To level up

[Starwynd]

I see alot of people saying they don't heal because they don't get a "thanks for the healing" afterwards, or because they don't think the other pug players are worth it. But have you thought of this on the flip side? Maybe that random pug person is only worthwhile when he's spamming the heal/cleanse button on someone who's worth a damn until one or the other dies.

And the day I start thanking people for healing, is the day I start to get tells from casters saying "thanks for taking that 3k frostbolt/2k evis/1800 MS to the face for me while I stand in the back pew-pew-pew'ing." I'm a Warrior, I'm either the first one to be focus fired down, or the first one to be turned into a sheep and left until everyone else is dead, depending on if you're fighting a pug or a premade. Maybe if you'd toss a bubble and a few heals on me between mindblasts, or purge the BoF on the guy I'm fighting between eartshocks, I'd last a little bit longer up front and they wouldn't turn on you so soon.

And also, on the Warrior note... I have very limited tools to "save" you if you're getting attacked for healing me. I can intercept them for a whopping 3 second stun, I can disarm melee's (30 second cooldown, can be dodged, parried, blocked, or miss, and they can be immune to it), and I can fear (3 minute cooldown, can be resisted, and breaks on any damage to the person I was targeting). Aside from that, all I can do is the same thing I normally do. Hamstring them and try to kill them before they kill me, or in this case, you. I can't heal you, or sheep them, or stunlock them, or chain fear them or anything like that. I have to either hope one of my three options works (Disarm, AoE Fear, Intercept stun and hamstring them), or try to kill them before you die.

[woeye]

I see alot of people saying they don't heal because they don't get a "thanks for the healing" afterwards, or because they don't think the other pug players are worth it.


It's not that I don't heal because I don't get a thanks afterwards. It's because people keep flaming me ("heal u noobz") for not healing them while I am under attack and no one cares.
Yes, I know that warriors do not have so many options to help their healers unfortunately. Mages or Locks have better crowd control tools for this.


Maybe if you'd toss a bubble and a few heals on me between mindblasts, or purge the BoF on the guy I'm fighting between eartshocks, I'd last a little bit longer up front and they wouldn't turn on you so soon.


In WSG there is no such thing as a "front". Enemy players are everywhere. While you focus on the hunter the rogue suddenly appears behind me and rips me into pieces. I know that you as a warrior can't do much against this. But please don't expect me to heal you whilst I get kicked :wink:

[brandondash]

To all those people that want to "DPS" In raid Roll a dps class.
The day i see a pally/shaman outdps a "smart" Warlock/mage/hunter/rogue/warrior or even. A shadow priest.
lol @ this dumb statement

Shamans have insane burst damage. I'll put shaman up against any like-geared class any day of the week for pvp burst damage potential.

brandon-

[degnar]

And the day I start thanking people for healing, is the day I start to get tells from casters saying "thanks for taking that 3k frostbolt/2k evis/1800 MS to the face for me while I stand in the back pew-pew-pew'ing." I'm a Warrior, I'm either the first one to be focus fired down, or the first one to be turned into a sheep and left until everyone else is dead, depending on if you're fighting a pug or a premade. Maybe if you'd toss a bubble and a few heals on me between mindblasts, or purge the BoF on the guy I'm fighting between eartshocks, I'd last a little bit longer up front and they wouldn't turn on you so soon.


This is a good point. This does happen a lot, and I don't usually acknowledge it. Often a beating like this vs. the warrior, with me healing, is rapidly followed by my death. But it might be enough to swing the battle, and no one says anything... not that they should.

As woeye said, it isn't about being thanked. The frustration comes from idiots who don't know how to play, but insist on telling the "healer" when/how to heal. Especially for a priest in shadowform... it would be the same as yelling at a warrior/rogue/mage/dps class to "HEAL FFS". If you are a hybrid/healer playing dps, you ARE dps, you are no longer a healer.

With PuG's you take what you get. Sometimes you get healers, sometimes they are dps. Sometimes you get a druid that wants to play defense. Some mages cap flags, some play mid-field. Some rogues guard flags, others cap them. etc, etc.

[Talryn]

I mostly play in AV. On the cluster I'm playing on now, I really hate the attitude people have toward each other. I think healers don't heal or don't even go to the BGs is because, as usual, it is often a thankless job. As has been mentioned, you have idiots yelling in BG chat because they don't get healed. As a healer, it is very upsetting to see that sort of crap when you are healing. I have also healed some of those people who are complaining (of course, I stop after they say such stupid things). Of course, almost no one protects the healers.

While it is true that healing doesn't always make a difference, part of the trick is picking who to heal. In AV I'll admit it can be tough at times since there are just so many people and so much going on. I do think it can make a difference but it isn't an easy job to work that out.

I also have a warrior on that same cluster and you can guess which I play more in BGs. The funny thing is that I have sympathy for both sides. What I don't get is that often people don't heal those trying to tank NPCs in AV. I've always been ready to step up and tank marshalls and even Vandaar but sometimes no one heals you. I never understood how you can keep asking to setup a MT and healers and no one responds. Ironic since you have at least a few people yelling and trying to tell everyone what to do the whole game.

[Sionzen]

As has been mentioned, I don't heal in 60s BG's much anymore because A.) I raided with a healbot spec so I'd rather load up my dps toon for a break and B.) Often times I get no support for my heals and then yelled at for not healing. C.) A lot of dps players are really really stupid it seems.

I now am an "evil twink" who heals in an organized group with no problems because I get support most of the time and it helps our team win more often than not.

[Xanadros]

I'm only 51 and go into AV shadow specced with a few friends who are 60. When I'm with them, I mainly keep an eye on them cause I know I can just tell them on Vent if I'm getting attacked. When I'm in with no one I know, I try to heal as many as possible... but that's only cause I get resisted so much by NPC's... Players don't resist too much, so I throw my SW:P on rogues whenever I see them (always funny when I actually kill a 60 rogue by myself) but otherwise I mainly heal cause that's what I'm good for right now. When I get to 60, it'll be a different story entirely... the alliance better be ready for melted faces! Although I still may heal my friends (and MT on marshalls and Van if there is one)

--Xan

[damunch]

I've never played a healing class to any sort of high level but I have been on the recieving end of rude healing requests. A Warrior I was grouped with seemed to think Hunters can heal partymembers.

If that's what you guys deal with on a regular basis you have my sympathy.

[Mincemaker]

I've never played a healing class to any sort of high level but I have been on the recieving end of rude healing requests. A Warrior I was grouped with seemed to think Hunters can heal partymembers.

If that's what you guys deal with on a regular basis you have my sympathy.

A warrior asked for that?

He deserves to have all his armor and weapons broken, and his flesh torn apart in ribbons.

I know some people are moronic in BG, but this is just retarded.

[damunch]

It was just a random quest we grouped for, not a BG, but still not bright. I guess in his defence we were both really low level so he might have been new to the game, but that didn't stop him from telling me what to do. I was really tempted to tell him that unless he had a collar around his neck I wasn't healing him but he might have gotten ideas...

[Weebull]

A Warrior I was grouped with seemed to think Hunters can heal partymembers.

Reminds me of the time some random hunter kept pestering me to make him some food and water. After a few minutes I finally turned to him and said, "Listen pal, I'm a priest. Go ask a mage to make you some"

[Mirinda]

Two separate questions. I, in 40-49 bracket, often encounter Horde groups that heal like crazy. They do very well having a healer follow around a warrior, mage and warlock. Amazingly effective. In an Alliance PUG we're lucky to have anybody even capable of healing much less actually do it.

So aside from having a healing specialist, I find it annoying how often shadow priests have stood there and watched me die. Maybe I am getting hit and oom. How about just FIRE AT THE GUY WHO'S POUNDING ME. Don't just stand there and watch me die. Vampiric embrace would be nice sometimes. I don't expect a shadow priest to go in and out of shadowform over and over, burning his mana. But are we on the same team?

[Gyoza]

I didnt roll a shadow priest to heal. I rolled to melt face.

I will heal a FC and sometimes I will heal a defense against a zerg in AV if I feel like it.

AND for anyone that yells at me to heal, i tell them to stfu and check who is at the top of the dps meter... ill give you a hint... it aint them.

[Grendo]

I didnt roll a shadow priest to heal. I rolled to melt face.

I will heal a FC and sometimes I will heal a defense against a zerg in AV if I feel like it.

AND for anyone that yells at me to heal, i tell them to stfu and check who is at the top of the dps meter... ill give you a hint... it aint them.DPS meter...in BGs. Yeah, good luck getting that one accurate.

As part of a big winning streak pvp team, and knowing I can hit the top hk spot anytime I want, I much prefer being near the bottom because it means I was doing much more than just melting faces. Sometimes, you can be both. ;)

[MadVlad]

As a druid, I find the best way to top the HK (not KB) list is to throw heals around. The more people you heal, and the longer they're killing, the more HK's you get. That said, I'm usually also leading the "deaths" category as well, because I don't get protected and I'm wearing my healing gear.

[Firebringer]

okay, after reading all this, I first have to say, nice seeing a thread with this topic not turning into one big burning flame thread...

I'm a holy/ret spec pally, 33/0/18
I throw up my 15 minutes buffs at the start of every BG I'm in, unless of course I join an "in progess" mess as we've grown to live with on alliance side for AB. I think I've started 4 out of last 100 ABs with a full group at the start (wonder if design flaw on blizzard part for this).
I try to renew those buffs when I see someone leaving the GY or running past, I also do my best to heal, but the first time someone puts in all caps wtf pally heal me, that stops and I start doing my own thing, (surviving long enough to use divine favor/holy shock/hammer of wrath kill shot as some unlucky horde is about to die)
Do people who use all caps in BGs really think they will make a difference and not just piss people of and get added to ignore list?

As far as alliance pugs always losing WSG, I think a lot of the alliance has actually just gotten used to losing there and have just reserved themselves to get as many HKs as they can before they lose (and have had many tell me that when I politely ask them for assistance on FC or defense). Yes healing helps with BGs, but if people don't even try to cooperate/treat each other with respect, healing isn't going to win anything.

just my two copper worth

[degnar]

DPS meter...in BGs. Yeah, good luck getting that one accurate.

As part of a big winning streak pvp team, and knowing I can hit the top hk spot anytime I want, I much prefer being near the bottom because it means I was doing much more than just melting faces. Sometimes, you can be both. ;)

Exactly. Some of my favorite BGs have been pure healing with 0 killing blows, 0 deaths, and tops for HKs. (I really wish you could sort BGs by anything other than KBs....)

[Xanadros]

I really wish you could sort BGs by anything other than KBs....

I think that would help a ton in WSG or AB or even AV... but since you can't, everyone wants to top the list, so the pugs are even worse about working as a group.

--Xan

[Mirinda]

One thing I do is use decursive on my mage to dispel magic on whoever's close. That's usually warlock stuff or frost slowing. Does it undo sheep? I don't remember, just hit it when it pops up. This works fine if I am in a crowd, but often people are out of range.

[Aerath]

As a druid, I find the best way to top the HK (not KB) list is to throw heals around. The more people you heal, and the longer they're killing, the more HK's you get. That said, I'm usually also leading the "deaths" category as well, because I don't get protected and I'm wearing my healing gear.

Nah, that's cos they should rename WSG to "Kill the druid"

[Dutchgrass]

I generally don’t start off healing others when playing my Shaman in a PUG BG unless they have shown not to be morons.

Sadly that’s rare.

[Serrat]

DPS meter...in BGs. Yeah, good luck getting that one accurate.

As part of a big winning streak pvp team, and knowing I can hit the top hk spot anytime I want, I much prefer being near the bottom because it means I was doing much more than just melting faces. Sometimes, you can be both. ;)

yup most people only look at the damage too, and forget about the healing thats thrown on those so called dpsers.

shame blizzard dont do the battleground listing by dps/healing meter of there own.

would perhaps give a better picture of whos hot and whos not in the battleground.

sometimes annoys me when in pug you get people going on about there uber KB's while since i was healing everyone i have 0 KBs but lot of HKs.

if it was meters of combining the damage and healing chocked out by the fighterrs it would show a bit more, you would actually see healers off the bottom of the list and show the real power behind a good battleground team :thumbsup:

doubt Bliz will do anything, not sure how they could work it, but would be nice

[swaldman]

if it was meters of combining the damage and healing chocked out by the fighterrs it would show a bit more, you would actually see healers off the bottom of the list and show the real power behind a good battleground team :thumbsup:

doubt Bliz will do anything, not sure how they could work it, but would be nice

As somebody else said, sorting by something other than KBs would be nice. If I stand in a BG and spam heals at everybody I usually get more HKs than if I try to kill stuff (especially in AV), simply because I can heal lots of people in the time that it would take me to kill one enemy, and then all of their kills count for me.