Should I be concerned?

[subpar]

Ok, my guild is starting bwl in a few weeks time, and we just downed rag this week :grin: . However, what i noticed was that while we were in MC, one of my fellow guildies was asking whether his class loot would drop off this particular boss, and made the comment that if these items dropped, he would be 8/8. Also, he would only run this particular instance( for a drop he badly wants) and MC only. So my question is, would he be a problem for us in BWL? since i heard it would be a wipefest the first time any guild set foot in it? He is actually one of those better geared guys too.

[mesonm]

huh? A guy only wants to come if he gets loot? Boot the dude...Once he gets his 8/8, is he going to move to a diff. guild?

Or am I misunderstanding?

[deamian]

Just going to say that Razorgore can destroy guild that aren't a) Focused
b) selfless and c) communicate well as a whole.... if it's just one person replace him if he gets annoying. Razorgore takes patience and people paying attention. It's best to explain ahead of time what I said in the first sentence, that Razore will be, not "could be" but will be a pain the ass.

[Fursphere]

And if your guild survives Razor, then you get to deal with Vael, which is 45% gear and skill and 55% pure luck. (who dies first is teh luck part)

Even the best guilds out there still wipe on Vael.

[amgyn]

starting BWL is expensive as heck... it took our guild 2 weeks, and about 20 tries to down razorgore for the first time (40g+ repairs)... we moved onto vael and its our first week.. 20+ tries at 4%... the fights really fast. (40g) .. so yeah alot of people will start missing the BWL attempts for easy farm of MC and gear..

anyway, about the guy that will get 8/8 and leave... there are alot of people like him and no guild has a proper way to weed them out. (particulary already geared players .. ie guild hoppers)

We have MC on farm, and our guild has about 70 60's .. we rotate in lesser geared players every week so that eventually everybody is well geared.. DKP system helps...

[subpar]

I dont know for sure he will get 8/8 and leave, but its his attitude that makes me feel concerned, and i wonder if i should

[Gealach]

My experience has been that it isn't the individual loot whore that damages the guild severely, its how people respond to his drama on the way out that cause real problems.

The best attitude I think is, if he leaves he's dissing you all. Screw him, forget him and move on. If he stays, then he is prolly contributing. Either way, you shouldn't really need to try to predict what he's doing.

Razorgore is not about gear, he's about execution. If everyone does their job right, you get a dead boss and a shot at Vael.

On Vael its not about your set gear, its about your FR and DPS. If people are managing not to die unless they've got burning adrenaline, then your FR is sufficient. If your DPS and healing are good enough, you've got dead boss #2.

The suppression rooms are basically like an amped up BRD Lyceum. Move fast, AoE like hell, and try to have enough whupass left at the end for Broodlord. Broodlord is pretty amazingly easy as bosses go, assuming you're not in really bad shape at the start of the fight. Once again, set pieces aren't the biggest deal.

Firemaw is easy if your tanks are good, your placement is good, and people remember to hide when they get too many debuffs. Heals go on the tanks, everyone else can bandage. Ony cloaks matter more than set gear in this fight.

Trash pulls after Firemaw are about coordination and good pulling, not gear. Stay out of the fire AoE the spellbinders toss around and if everyone does what they are supposed to these go easily. I'll admit that 5/8 tier 2 for mages makes the techs a little easier due to larger AoE radius, but its not required.

Ebonroc and Flamegor are even easier than Firemaw. Keep the tanks up and the dragons facing away from the raid and you get 2 more dead dragons. Notice no set gear required. =)

Chromaggus is definitely tougher. Make sure people are removing debuffs as fast as possible, that critical classes (tanks, healers) have hourglass sand, and that people get out of the way when Chromagg breathes. THe healers will need to be quite mana efficient, since its a longish fight.

Nefarion is the most gimmicky fight. Phase one is either the easiest or the hardest phase, depending on your strat. Most of the strats I've seen are the hard way of doing it. Once we switched to the easy strat, Nef became easier than Chromagg.

In general, FR and DPS are more important than tier gear in BWL. Your tanks will benefit from set gear, but I'd only worry if the guy was your guild's only well geared MT.

DPS can get a lot of good stuff in ZG and AQ20 that will definitely help. Ossirian drops the best DPS caster staff in the game below Nefarion. That and FR from MC should see you through to Nef nicely.

[ruinz]

I'm a little confused by the original post. Is this person who is close to 8/8 from another guild/server where they were able to get BWL gear, or are they speaking in some entirely theoretical way?

Personally, I don't trust anyone obsessed with getting 8/8 BWL gear, because in ALL the cases I'm aware of that feature any class other than Warrior getting 8/8, the person has stopped playing/jumped servers/rerolled another class within a month. We had one Pally get 8/8, with other Pallies letting him get stuff ahead of them even though they had more DKP (because he was closer to 8/8), and what does he do? Says "I feel like I've completed my Pally, I'm going to reroll as a Rogue on a PvP server!". I guess we should count ourselves lucky he didn't say "LOL SUCKERS!" and sell his account.

Generally, people who are all about the items, not about the progression, or about seeing interesting things, or helping other people, or just killing tough mobs tend to find a reason to exit as soon as the going gets tough, so I wouldn't expect much out of him.

BWL is certainly a horribly painful instance to learn, though if you have a few people familiar with certain parts of it already it's a lot easier. If you have a rich guild bank, it's a very good time for it to offer to pay for repairs, you'll get a lot less of people getting upset that way (grinding 40g is definately non-trivial for Priests/Pallies/Prot Warriors/Resto Druids and if you're expecting them to simply dump the money on repairs and be happy, you're nuts - For those classes that can be 10-20 hours of solo farming, and that's not counting mana pot money etc.).

[Dynatos]

Generally, people who are all about the items, not about the progression, or about seeing interesting things, or helping other people, or just killing tough mobs tend to find a reason to exit as soon as the going gets tough, so I wouldn't expect much out of him.

It's probably off topic, but for the most part I agree completely with these statements.

I'm in a very lucky minority, though. My guild is part of an alliance of four guilds started exactly one year ago this week. Each of the guilds has similar priorities and values; one of the guild has been around for years, throughout other games, and another is made up of real life friends. We're probably one of the only successful alliances in WoW, progressing through all of ZG, AQ20, MC, BWL, and are up to C'Thun in AQ40 within that year.

A good amount of the players (50+) are focused on progression rather than loot; their whole goal is to progress through new content and teach it to the other raiders. Of course, they have access to the cutting edge gear faster than the rest.

I got in on my first progression raid first kill last weekend; we downed Ouro. I absolutely loved the challenge and being able to say that I was among the first in our guild to down the boss.

Now we're moving on to CThun and have started forays into Naxx; I spent an entire week doing nothing but Scholo runs so that I'm in a position to see the encounters, not the loot, as we progress through Naxx.

The adrenaline rush as you down a boss after wiping 4 nights and 20 times in a row is amazing; I'll trade that for loot any time.

[subpar]

[QUOTE=ruinz]I'm a little confused by the original post. Is this person who is close to 8/8 from another guild/server where they were able to get BWL gear, or are they speaking in some entirely theoretical way?[QUOTE]

This guy i mentioned is close to getting 8/8 tier 1. He has been with us in MC for quite a bit and has actually applied to some other guild before, but was not successful.

I do understand that it is inevitable that there would always be people like that in guilds, who is more about loot than progression, but what i hate to see is that whenever we try a new boss, people start to leave after a few wipes, which makes the encounter even more impossible. I know that sometimes it gets late and people are tired, but i dont see them doing that when we are downing bosses sucessfully. I think I'm a little off topic here, but thats how I feel. I think this is also the reason why our guild took a very long (and i mean really long) time to down rag.

[inkmva]

Why would he worry about 8/8 tier1?

I'd boot him just on grounds that he makes claims like that.

When your guild has progressed to this point (imo MC is this point but whatever) in the endgame world, you should have DKP laid out and working.

If people make statements like "Im getting XXX item if it drops even if i dont have dkp or im not comming" they dont belong in endgame. Simple as that.
The other guildies may very well feel free to give him said item to complete a set, but its not a claim he can make.

BWL, until its on farm, is a huge pain in the lower back area. Its a wipefest and vael beeing based a bit on luck is amazingly annoying.

We're up to c'thun, downed a few bossess in naxx, does mc in a couple of hours and bwl under 3 hours but we still wipe on vael allmost every damn time.

Actually, I cant remember the last time we didnt wipe on vael due to either bad luck, some tryout having a (un)lucky crit or just vael deciding to be a little bugger.

Edit;

He's no cockblock tho and we allways get passed him after the one wipe ;).

Flamegore is worse, one OT beeing a bit unfocused and its all downhill. Bring bandages, pots and tubers :P