Rep Rewards

[Mordivine]

I am currently working my way towards Exaulted with AB so that i can get the staff and then aiming for AV exaulted to get the shadow off hand and the main hand dagger from AB.

My question is, are the rep rewards still going to be there with the new honour system / pvp system being brought out in TBC.

I doubt i will be getting exaulted any time soon but if the rep rewards are going then i can probably spend my time levelling instead of PvPing.

[Mordivine]

So im guessing that no one knows if the rep rewards will remain when TBC comes out.

[Serrat]

well theres been nothing really said about it, though i did see a screeny of lvl 70 version of the TUF.

although i have no evidence i suspect those items will still be in game, and higher level versions, but like the new stuff it will be buyable by using the honor points you gain.

of course that is just speculation, but makes sence to me.

[Hunter Noventa]

If you want to get exalted with AV and AB, I suggest you work on AV first, as it will go many many many many times faster than anything else.

[bhroam]

So a blue has said that all current PvP and rep rewards will be worked into the new system, but the reputation based rewards are going away. It'll all be honor-points based.

I'm still wondering how they are going to do consumables like combat healing/mana pots and AV arrows/bullets.

If you need to spend honor points to get a consumable, that's gonna suck.... unless they're hella cheap.

[Serrat]

If you need to spend honor points to get a consumable, that's gonna suck.... unless they're hella cheap.
well, if you spend pretty much all your time in the battlegrounds or fighting in general, you tend not to make that much gold, so having it as part of the honor point system kind of makes sence.

of course it if costs to much noone would but them, but really there not the be all and end all of fighting.

i dont really use them much, and i didnt use them at all untill i had all the stuff i wanted from battlegrounds.

i mean when your in there most of the time, making gold is not gonna happen, take most of the highwarlords they end up borrowing gold(or worse)to get there items, spending added gold on pots while doing the grind is a potential money killer.

although the pots dont appear to cost that much(cant remember how much they are as like i said dont use em often)but over time when you earn nothing it can cost a lot.

so for me it would make sence that they are included in the points system.

plus you cant take stuff like that in to the arenas(iirc) so not going to be such a major issue there anyway.

but i agree that they should be cheap, but not so cheap that you rely on them, they should be a nice aid, not something you chug everytime the cool down has finished.

[bhroam]

The pots are either 9s for a healing or 11s for a mana. I found them nice for PvE.. while PvP was more of a hobby. I guess this isn't want they were really for =]

Without any rank or rep levels, you can't really achieve what is currently done. Currently if you're not rank 6 you can't buy pots... or if you're not revered with AV you can't buy arrows (which actually aren't cheap).

Now you have points... and points is points is points. There really is not way to say, you need to do a bit of work once before you have access to these cool things. Now it's you have to do a little work every time, or hardly any work every time.

I guess we need to wait and see anyways.

Oh so a blue said yesterday that everyone is starting from ground zero honor wise. If you were a private or grand marshal you're all equal... well for the first second you log on... then the grand marshal will probably squish the private like an ant. Kinda the way Blizzard is hoping.... people who have skill will quickly raise again in points/arena standing.

[MadVlad]

I heard that once we're all at zero again, we'll still have the option of keeping a "display" rank based on our highest PVP rank to date. No?

[ellu]

Originally posted by bhroam
So a blue has said that all current PvP and rep rewards will be worked into the new system, but the reputation based rewards are going away. It'll all be honor-points based.

so theres no point farming rep with The Defillers?
or just go crazy and hope you hit Exaulted before xPac?

[Yrkoonia]

*Bump*

Anyone on the test-server that can check how the AV/AB/WSG rewards are bought àfter the new honor patch hits us next week ?

[Cerberus]

Just checked on PTR.
You buy the PvP rewards as well as the old rep rewards with a combination of marks of honor and honorpoints. The prices for AV rewards are:

Exalted 7000 honorpoints+25 AV mark of honor
Revered 4125+20
Honored 2250+20
Mount 50 marks
Battle standard 30 marks
Tabard 60(!) marks
Icethreaded 48s/48s (good old cash)

Some items require fewer marks or are slightly cheaper in honorpoints.
Kills in AV gave me 1-2 honorpoints and some objective we accomplished gave me 20 (can't remember which one).

Some more samples:
High warlord weapons (I've seen the 60-versions as blue on Beta loot-tables):
2h 45000 honorpoints+40 AV marks
1h and other 22500 honorpoints+20 or 40 AB marks
The blue armorset ranges from 4kish to 6kish per piece as well as 20 or 30 of a specific mark for each of them.
The epic set is 12kish to 20k-something for the chest as well as marks (20-60).
There is also a new version of the classtrinket, a blue ring and a epic neck at 70. The neck is socketable(!). You can buy gems for honorpoints as well.
The current rank 11 mounts are 30 of each mark (AV/WSG/AB).

It does not seem like you need any reputation at all to buy the rep rewards. I'm not sure if there's any discounts based on you reputation however.
13250 honorpoints and 40 WSG marks of honor for outriders leggings at honored. (I'm exalted with AV if it turns out to have any relevance).

Basically I guess this means you all should save up your marks. These prices are ofc also subject to change.

[Yrkoonia]

Thanx for the info Cerberus.

This means I have to grind AV for the last couple of thousands rep for my hunter alt today and tomorrow :)

[Kidakan]

A few people in my guild have been saving up Honor marks from the different factions to cash in once the patch hits. Does anyone know if they'll be able to use them or are all unused Honor Marks getting wiped out?

Thanks!

[Drpep]

With the new point system, are we going to have to wait till every tuesday for point tallies still, or do they accumalate like the rep bars do now?

[Vaalth]

they're purchased with tokens and honor points

[shifttusk]

yay for HWL bow being reasonable. Yay for HWL shoulders and Don J's band

[SirBazturd]

If you are already maxed on your rep, do you still have the items available for purchase or will you also need to turn in marks?

[amgyn]

sirbazturd: i think they will screw us and make you need to turn in stuff.. ):

[aromar]

With the new point system, are we going to have to wait till every tuesday for point tallies still, or do they accumalate like the rep bars do now?

Sorry for not having a direct link but the latest Blizz Battleplan in the official forums says that the new honor points will be calculated in off peak times every day, so there will only be a 24 hour delay on point accumulation.

I'm not too sure if the marks that you gain now can be used when the patch hits, I think I recall reading that the marks aren't going to count and they're classifying the post-patch marks as a new item with a stackable qty of 100.

Added bit of info for those who haven't been reading the threads much, 1000 new honor points = 10,000 old honor, an example is one of the above posters who said that getting an objective of some kind in AV gave him 20 honor, in the old system it was 192 honor.

In other words, it'll be a long haul to get a HWL or GM 2h weapon @ 45k new honor as it is really 450,000 old honor. I know the points keep accumulating from week to week but think about it this way, a rep weapon like The Unstoppable Force (TUF) will be made redundant by level 61 greens. Don't believe me? Do a beta weapon search on one of the major database sites.

My advice is that if you have nothing better to do with your time, gather 100 AV, AB, WSG, EotS tokens, get as many honor points as possible before BC and then hold onto them! Honor points will not decay. Keep all of these items, if you have enough self control, until level 70 and then you'll immediately be able to purchase some awesome lvl 70 gear, some of which you can already see on the pvp vendors :)

EDIT: Yes, purchase any rep rewards you can before the patch goes live! I am Exalted with AV and in PTR they want me to gather all the marks and honor points for the items, no cash option is available. The biggest thing to be effected by this is the exalted mount, it only costs 9g on live but now you have to spend hours gathering all the marks. So if you are exalted with AV but don't have epic riding skill yet, just purchase the ram mount for 9g now or you'll have to waste marks to purchase it later.

[Cerberus]

Hm.. so getting the healingmace (HWL) for my druid will take me about a week and a half of PvPing without putting too much effort into it. Seems almost too easy tbh ;)

Free epix for everyone pretty much if you ask me, but won't be a big deal when TBC hits anyway.

[mesonm]

nvm...someone else had better info than I do.

[Kokolums]

Hm.. so getting the healingmace (HWL) for my druid will take me about a week and a half of PvPing without putting too much effort into it. Seems almost too easy tbh ;)

Free epix for everyone pretty much if you ask me, but won't be a big deal when TBC hits anyway.

The big deal for me is that I'm now grandfathered in with a HIGH WARLORD title! :cool:

[Fursphere]

How much actual time in BGs do you think one will spend to get enough points to buy a GM weapon?

I've got a warrior in full valor/heroism (can't finish a 45 min run, although have been within 2 minutes). I want to get GM swords.

Say on average, how long will it take, with playing say an hour or two a day.

[Fursphere]

I'll answer my own question:

I played about 2.5 hours last night, and about an hour this morning.

I have approx 1200 "honor" points

I'm a casual player right now. Figure 20 days to get a 1H GM weapon, if I keep up this pace. It'll probably slow down a bit, since I have a job... and a life.. lol

In 46 days the Burning Crusade will be out. Ya.. this new honor system should have been out like 6 months to a year ago.

For the hardcore no-life-at-all kiddies / college students, congrats to you guys, you'll have GM / HW gear in just a week or two.

[Leonavice]

Found something hilarious here.

If you got the time, fly to Refuge point in Arathi highlands and look at the vendor's items. Take a look at the staff and the dagger (I think it's sageclaw). I saw that it requires HATED with League of Arathor :D

[Aerath]

Yes. That's to ensure everyone can use it, regardless of your reputation.

[Fursphere]

that's a silly way to fix it

[Sundestroyer]

The new system is a mistake imo. First of all, everyone and their moms will have some HWL gear by the time TBC comes out. Personally, I don't believe uber epic gear should be so easlily accessable. Hardcore PVPers that spend time and effort SHOULD have better rewards than the casual Joe Blow that doesn't PVP much.

Basically, there are a few different kinds of WoW players. 1. Hard core PVEers. 2. Hardcore PVPers. Then the rest are varients of casual PVEers/PVPers/mixed. For the most part, you will never see a hard core PVPer in a raid in BWL or AQ or Naxx...because they spend all their time PVPing. So basically, the epic sets in those raid instances will NEVER be available to them at all....the only thing they have to live for is the epic PVP set. On the other hand...hard core PVEers that raid end game instances DO find spare time to PVP in the BGs some...so not only do they get their epic raiding sets...but they NOW can save enough honor to get epic PVP gear. How is this fair for PVPers? PVPers will never get the other epic sets...so why should people who play PVP casually be allowed to get epic PVP sets? It is a flawed system.

I expect any casual players to disagree with me, saying that it was far to difficult to get the epics from the BGs...and perhaps it was. Blizz could have made it a bit easier to rank up, rather than just allowing honor points to build and build until EVERYone can buy the epic gear. If you PVP for a while, then take a long break, you SHOULD lose honor to make it more difficult to get the epics. At the same time...having to PVP 24/7 for months just to get them is too extreme. Blizz should have come up with some middle ground so not EVERYones grandmas could walk away with epic gear. OR...they should have put some NEW more POWERFUL epics in for the hardcore PVPers, and used BOTH systems. Let the current sets be bought with honor points...but let the better gear only be available to people dedicated enough to rank up to be able to purchase it.

It's just not fair that PVEers are now going to have 2-3 different epic sets for any situation...yet PVPers are stuck with only one set, that EVERYone can now get with little effort. Flawed.

[Seldom]

Wow ... That's just sad. I want to say more but there is no way to say more politely.

[Leonavice]

For new 60s, BGs are now the best way to get outfitted. At the rate I am going in BG, which is about 4000-5000 honor points per day, you can buy a piece of PVP tier 1 set everyday. In 6 days, you can have the full Lieutenant Commander set. You can buy Tier 0 bracers and belt from the AH. This is much better than running 5-man instances. I mean, is it even possible to outfit the whole tier 0 set just by running instances in 6 days in normal runs?

If anything, BG for the GM/HWL weapons instead of armor. Armor is definitely much easier to replace than weapons, which I think holds true in BC as well.

[Sundestroyer]

For new 60s, BGs are now the best way to get outfitted. At the rate I am going in BG, which is about 4000-5000 honor points per day, you can buy a piece of PVP tier 1 set everyday. In 6 days, you can have the full Lieutenant Commander set. You can buy Tier 0 bracers and belt from the AH. This is much better than running 5-man instances. I mean, is it even possible to outfit the whole tier 0 set just by running instances in 6 days in normal runs?

If anything, BG for the GM/HWL weapons instead of armor. Armor is definitely much easier to replace than weapons, which I think holds true in BC as well.

Exactly the point I was making. Yes, the first PVP set is MUCH more attainable than running BRS for the PVE set. It will be much faster just to PVP for the tier 0 set. The same goes for the epic PVP set. It will be much faster to aquire than running MC/BWL 100 times and outbidding others in your class using DKP...which can be months and months. A person PVPing for 4-6 hours a day can have the whole epic set within a month or less quite easily.


Wow ... That's just sad. I want to say more but there is no way to say more politely..

Please do speak your mind. I'd love to hear other peoples opinions on this. Why you can't speak an opinion without being "polite" is beyond me. I don't see why it would be so hard to speak your thoughts. Just share your opinions without flaming and it shouldn't be a problem. It's called discussion, and it happens everyday between human beings. Only children go out of their ways to insult one another, and I believe that we are all grown enough to be able to speak on a subject w/out being rude to others.

Basically, with the new system, Blizz may as well be giving away epic armor sets and gear as soon as players hit 60. Epic items are supposed to be 'extremely rare'...but how is that possible when everyone in the World...of Warcraft...can easily aquire them now. All I'm saying is Blizz should have either (A.) made them harder to get than they did, or (B.) create a 3rd set of gear, and another set of weapons that ARE difficult to get by using the old system for the 3rd set only.

Let me elaborate on (A.) first. To make it more difficult by using the current system, where epics can be bought using honor and tokens...Blizz could have made it so honor will deteriorate when people do not PVP for a while. Weekly updates would determine if people played enough PVP to either gain, or lose honor. This makes it similar to the old system, except now we can buy the epics using that honor, instead of trying to aquire unreachable ranks to achieve a status where we can buy. So for even casual PVPers, it is still possible...but it will take much longer than what the current system is allowing for players to purchase the epic sets and weapons. For PVEers, it would be more difficult to get than for PVPers. The way it SHOULD be. Just like for PVPers, it's obviously much more difficult to get epic PVE sets, since PVPers are not raiding. The difference is, it will STILL be possible for PVEers to get the epic PVP set, only it will just take more time on their part, since they will be losing some honor in the process...thus taking longer to gain the right amount to make purchases. For people that PVP constantly, because that is all they DO...it will be much easier for the epics to be attained.

Now for (B.)...ok, so blizz wants casual plaers to be able to get epic gear very fast. Well that isn't exactly fair for hardcore players that only PVP. Why would epics be just as achievable for casual players as they are to hardcore players. Sure the hardcore PVPers will get them a little faster, but with little effort, EVERYone can be epiced out by the time TBC launches. The point is, for hardcore PVPers, like hardcore PVEers...there should be SOME kind of reward for all their efforts. So why not use the NEW system for the first two PVP sets...and use the OLD system for a new 3rd set? That way the people who are QQ over not being able to reach high ranks to get epics WILL be able to get epics...while the hardcore PVPers will STILL have something worth putting in effort for.

Hopefully you understand a little better this time. Purple gear should be worth the effort put into getting it...and shouldn't just be given away. I know it won't matter as much when TBC comes out because gear will be replaced within a few levels...so I understand that Blizz is giving people a chance to get some uber gear for TBC...but there should still be some kind of incentive for hardcore PVPers. I mean look at all the epics that can be gained from farming rep with the Argent Dawn, or Cenarian Circle, or the ZG rep stuff....obviously not everyone is going to want to put in the massive amount of effort it takes to farm the rep for that stuff...and with this new honor system, they don't HAVE to. It is MUCH MUCH easier to play some BGs and BAM...epic set and weapon. How many people will be farming for rep with other factions for epics now? Probably none.

[Farq]

Sundestroyer, the 1 thing you are failing to remember is that the gear is accessible by doing about the same amount of PvP as you "hardcore" gamers. The difference is, they can do it over time instead of living in their basement for weeks straight to achieve it. Have you taken a look at the gear? It may cost you little amounts of honor, but the amount of marks required is huge! Eg: I want the High Warlords Spellblade on my Warlock. That one piece alone required 30 AB marks, which could be up to 30 AB battles if you are unlucky. The gear itself takes 30-40 marks per piece, which is hundreds of Battlegrounds to get it.

I agree with the new system for 1 main reason, even IF you had the old system, and even IF you could get Warlord, how many people (apart from those that dont work etc. and have 12 hours a day to play the game) have the time to maintain that rank until they can finally break High Warlord to buy what they want? I have seen some people sitting at Warlord for 4-5 weeks straight and then just give up cause they are unable to maintain the game time to get what they need.

A lot of changes had to be made, especially considering the difficulty of the mobs in Outland come BC. They have more HP, more Strength and for those who are only wearing mid-high level blues, that gear just wont cut it for the casual gamers trying to experience new content.

Not everyone has time to raid, not everyone can spend the time doing PvP, but everyone deserves to enjoy the game and explore the content without having to give up their day-to-day life.

[Cerberus]

One of the main reasons for changing the system was the huge difference in what was required to get ranks on different servers. Some way of evening this out had to be implemented. This however..

Let's take the high warlords spellblade. Not so long ago this (as well as all other PvP gear) got a massive buff. It is now 100% similar to the sword dropped by viscidus in AQ40. First of all, getting 40 people to him and killing him while competing with about 10 other people for it in terms of dkp as well as getting it to drop in the first place might take the same effort as getting to high warlord on a lot of servers. HWL even more probably. Fair enough.

Doing 30 ABs and getting 22500 honorpoints is nowhere close to any of those, sorry..

My druid (alt) currently has 1/10 of a HWL 1h one day after my server came up. I'm probably no casual player, but the effort I put in was nowhere close to what people competing for ranks <8 on my server used to need.

About the TBC gear we will get gear as we level up I guess. I don't think epics will be required to enjoy the new content.

[Leonavice]

Farq, Marks are actually easily attained. Look at the wait times of AB and WSG (let's forget AV for now). Seriously if you want to get marks fast, ask your team to lose. Be 5-capped or let your flag go 3 times. Each time you LOSE you get 1 mark. ABs and WSGs can be over in 5 minutes each. For me Honor points is the limiting factor now, since I got over 20 marks of AB and WSG in 2 days but only about 8000 honor.

Seriously I don't mind sitting around and BG whole day than running friggin AQ40 to get something similar to the spellblade. Best is, you don't have to repair stuff in BGs. AQ40 can be a moneysink.

As for Tier 1 epics vs PVP epics, it depends on your class. Play a class no one plays and you can get your full tier 1 set in no time. IE. play locks. :laugh:

[Fursphere]

[QUOTE=Sundestroyer;3823862]Basically, there are a few different kinds of WoW players. 1. Hard core PVEers. 2. Hardcore PVPers. Then the rest are varients of casual PVEers/PVPers/mixed. For the most part, you will never see a hard core PVPer in a raid in BWL or AQ or Naxx...because they spend all their time PVPing. So basically, the epic sets in those raid instances will NEVER be available to them at all....the only thing they have to live for is the epic PVP set. On the other hand...hard core PVEers that raid end game instances DO find spare time to PVP in the BGs some...so not only do they get their epic raiding sets...but they NOW can save enough honor to get epic PVP gear. How is this fair for PVPers? PVPers will never get the other epic sets...so why should people who play PVP casually be allowed to get epic PVP sets? It is a flawed system.
[QUOTE]

I guess you're blind? Pre-Patch, I've seen MANY HW/GM people running around with Naxx gear. Hardcore PVPer's are normally harcore PVEers as well. (no.life.at.all)

Nothing better than seeing a Warrior in dreadnaught DW GM swords.

[Fursphere]

I think the biggest thing people are missing in this thread is this:

Blizzard has stated that at level 65, players are going to experience a complete gear reset.

Sure, nubzor lvl 60 player can get GM/HW gear quickly in BGs (I'm casual, its going to take me abotu 20 days per peice at my current rate.. BC will be out right after I guess my first peice...).

Then BC comes out, and EVERYONE with BC will be out leveling. You really think people are going to keep thier 60s are 60? (twink basically). I doubt it!

So people go out leveling.. time away from BGs.. and once you hit 65, the GM/HW gear may not seem so good anyway.

[rgirty]

Anyone have a link to the list of rewards, and cost per reward?

I have never pvp'd much due to how difficult it was to rank up but with the new system my limited playtime of only one or two hours per day might really be worth investing into some pvp gear.

[Fursphere]

22500 + 20 marks for 1H weapons
44500 + 40 marks for 2H weapons

I think the highest armor peice is 21000 + ?? marks

[Sundestroyer]

That one piece alone required 30 AB marks, which could be up to 30 AB battles if you are unlucky. The gear itself takes 30-40 marks per piece, which is hundreds of Battlegrounds to get it.


As someone else mentioned, the marks are not hard to get at all. I have just under 30 from the first night, and only played for 1 1/2 hours. My friends that have put in approximately 7 hours of PVPing in 2 nights have over 70AB marks already. You can do what someone else said, and let the other team win...or participate in a pre-made, thus winning fast and getting 3 marks at a time. We did it the pre-made way....but the point is, even for casual players that play maybe 2 hours a night, 30 marks can be done within 2-3 days easy enough.

the 1 thing you are failing to remember is that the gear is accessible by doing about the same amount of PvP as you "hardcore" gamers. The difference is, they can do it over time instead of living in their basement for weeks straight to achieve it.

I was only Rank 6 with the old system, about to be Rank 7 just before the patch (until my guild decided to raid darnassus the night before the patch, thus killing our ranks do to Dishonorable Kills)...so the chances of me getting the HWL stuff was slim anyways. I am by no means a hardcore PVPer since I do many other things in WoW. I am saying that it is unfair for the ones that ARE though, after the massive amount of time it took them to achieve the high ranks, now Blizz is just giving away HWL stuff. I agree it should have been more accessable...but not to the point where EVERYone can get it. Purples are supposed to be rare for a reason, but the new system has made them a common item.

I guess you're blind? Pre-Patch, I've seen MANY HW/GM people running around with Naxx gear. Hardcore PVPer's are normally harcore PVEers as well. (no.life.at.all)
(Posted by Fursphere)

I guarantee that the ratio of hardcore PVEers with PVP epics to hardcore PVPers with PVE epics is about 10 to 1. Sure, there ARE some out there that PVP and PVE a lot, equally. But more often than not, the guys that are PVPing constantly up to HWL levels don't have time for raiding, thus will NOT be getting any raid gear. The people YOU are talking about are probably PVE raiders that go and PVP on their off days...which makes them NOT so hardcore when it comes to PVP. Contrary to popular belief, it does NOT take 16 hours a day every day of PVPing to reach the WL level. 30-40 hours a week is enough to reach that level...and even HWL. People tend to exaggerate when they are impatient, and don't pay any attention to how long they are actually playing. Believe me, I get burnt out on PVP after a few hours...which seems like forEVER...but by no means am I doing it for 12-15 hours a day. 3-4 hours is usually my limit on PVPing, which would have got me to rank 10 easy enough. Then if I put in some long hours on the weekends HWL would have been attainable after about a month. Do I think the time involved was insane? YES! Do I think it should be easier than what it was? YES! Do I think Blizz should just hand out epics like halloween candies? NO!

If you took time to read my entire post, you will note TWO different ideas that I believe would have been better than the new system, that would have made it easier than before for people to get epiced out...yet not as easy as it is currently...except in my 2nd (B.) idea...where it WILL be the same getting the epic set, but there would be another set added. You sound like the kind of person that wants to join a Naxx guild after doing UBRS so you can get free handouts in MC/BWL/AQ. EVERYone should go through the trials of taking on challenges at the appropriate skill/gear level. I don't believe in FREEBIES...which is what many people do. It's like people that buy gold just so they can purchase the best items/enchants possible at their level. THOSE are the types of people that are happy with hand-me down PVP epics.

[Grendo]

So people go out leveling.. time away from BGs.. and once you hit 65, the GM/HW gear may not seem so good anyway.GM/HW gear is pretty comparable to BWL set pieces, minus some of the nicer set bonuses. In TBC, youll start to upgrade out of T2 esque gear by about 66+, possibly sooner depending on drop luck.

Assuming 60-70 will take you the same time 1-60 did (lets say an average of 10 days /played, about a month or so realtime) and there being roughly 45 days left till TBC, Youre looking at about 70 days of GM/HW gear being more useful to you then normal drops in TBC. So, 2.5 months...is the grind worth it now? Well that depends on how much you grind and what you want.

For me, Ive decided against GM gear in favor of the Rank10-12 gear instead, and then grinding the rest of it for a GM weapon. The peices I want fill out my current mix and match set nicely (alt turned main playing gear catchup), and give me a great power boost leading into TBC. Whereas I would only be able to manage 3-4 peices of the purple set, I can manage all the peices of the blue set plus a GM weapon. I will have more than sufficient gear for all opening TBC content based on my beta experiences, without the heavy repair costs while teaching and learning new content with others. (Not that money in TBC will be an issue....)

A lot of changes had to be made, especially considering the difficulty of the mobs in Outland come BC. They have more HP, more Strength and for those who are only wearing mid-high level blues, that gear just wont cut it for the casual gamers trying to experience new content.Not true. The first 3 instances in TBC are geared towards people who can manage UBRS/ZG type instances, ala most, if not all, level 60s. Theres a bit of a curve after that, but these instances give you gear thats comparable to late MC/early BWL anyway.

[Fursphere]

I think the major bonus / attraction to current GM/HW gear is that your 100% guarunteed to get it.

No stupid random drops. No losing rolls to another party member. You put in the time, you get the gear.

Not like running UBRS over and over again for a Dal'Rends main hand drop that never drops.. lol

[Leonavice]

BTW, if you noticed carefully, the only good items that require WSG tokens (besides the mount and tabard) are the tier 1 and tier 2 leggings. All the rest, and every single GM/HWL weapons don't need WSG tokens.

[Cerberus]

I guess you're blind? Pre-Patch, I've seen MANY HW/GM people running around with Naxx gear. Hardcore PVPer's are normally harcore PVEers as well. (no.life.at.all)

The people doing Naxx with HWL items are usually people that used to PvP hardcore and switched to PvE. It's not possible to do both succesfully at the same time. I tried getting to rank 11 for the mounts while raiding 4-5 nights a week+farming the consumables needed. Having decent progress past rank 8/9 would have required me to get about 200k honor a week on my server. Getting to HWL would have been impossible with that raidingschedule.

My guild has started doing premaids to gear us self up for leveling in TBC. Tanks and healers don't allways have tons of dps-gear and PvPing helps everyone get it. I think those who decided on gearing up mains are working on their second HWL item atm. My druid currently has 5821 honorpoints with ~1221 from PvPing after midnight. Still feels like a major kick in the nuts to anyone with HWL gear from pre-patch. It's as good as late BWL (except some nefariandrops) to mid AQ40 gear and you don't compete with anybody but yourself to get it.

It is indeed as I feared, the "free epix for everyone"- patch. And as Grendo said, I don't think it's worthless at 65. You will be wearing it untill something better drops no matter how outdated it is.

[frazil]

as a mild pvp'er i like the change, my new alt rogue i did pvp from lvl 25-29
and have the AB belt boots , and the WSG neck i have enough points for more stuff but ill save it for now. the gear gap, from 60-70 in regard to HWL/GM gear to the Gladiator Arena sets will be filled w/ pve or pvp objectives in the farious zones. there are 5 or more zone pvp factions w/ good rewards. with the abilities and new content/gear each player will have a little more flexibility not same speced same geared people, everyone can have a little variety.

[Aerath]

I think it's not a bad idea.

The old R14s now finally have access to the newly upgraded GM stuff. And, when they return to the grind, they can pretty much obtain it in 1-2 days.

[Sundestroyer]

Well, Blizz fixed the honor system a bit by making it somewhat more difficult to gain honor at the absurd rates that people were doing it. Getting an epic every 1 or 2 days was going a bit far. I am glad they amped the difficulty a bit, even if it is still fairly easy to gear up with the PVP epics. At least Blizz is putting in the effort to not make it seem like they are just giving epics away now.

[Ern]

Where is the notes on this update?