Should I roll a Horde?

[mckie]

I have two Ally toons, a 37 NE rogue and a 26 human priest. The priest I only started to have something to do whenever I got too far ahead of my son, who also plays, but I prefer the rogue and the priest doesn't get much play time.

I have worked hard on farming and other methods of earning money, and have accumulated about 250g - enough for my upcoming level 40 mount, and I also have very nice gear for my rogue with some decent enchants. I enjoy both PVE and PVP.

Unfortunately, being Ally I constantly lose in BGs. One on one even up to a few levels higher, my rogue has no trouble. I only lose in world PVP to 40+ Hordies, or if they jump me when my health is low. In BGs, I am consistently near the top of the standings lists. However, Alliance absolutely sucks in BGs. I have won one or two ABs, lifetime. Only one that I remember, and I must have lucked into a premade. I still did my fair share, but it was obvious the rest of my team knew what they were doing. In WSG, because the objective is simpler, with a few good people you can sometimes get a win. I'd say we win WSG 1/4 to 1/3 of the time, though I can easily go five consecutive losses without a win, and the wins we do get are hard-fought.

Frankly, I'm just tired of losing. With the cross-realm BGs, it's very hard to get a list of good people to put even a half-premade together. I consider myself lucky if one person on my "good PVPers" list is online and up for a BG. Also, though I have been Alliance throughout WoW, back in earlier Warcraft days I always played the Horde (still have my copy of Warcraft I and II in my desk). The NE looked fun, and that's why I started Ally - if I had been able to start a BE then I'd probably be Horde now and this discussion wouldn't be happening :)

But, I'm an Ally and am tired of losing. At the rate I'm going, getting from 1500/6000 honored to 12000/12000 revered with Silverwing is going to require 330 more turn-ins... at a 1:3 win:loss ratio, that's 660 more games of WSG... at 20 minutes per game, that's 220 hours of WSG. Whereas the Horde, at a 3:1 win:loss ratio, can go from 0/3000 friendly to 12000/12000 revered in 504 games. Note both calculations ignore the bonus rep from flag caps, which would slightly reduce the Ally time and significantly reduce the Horde time. As for AB - getting revered to get that great rogue armor - forget about it. With a 1:20 win:loss ratio, and maybe getting 600-800 resources each game, I'd go insane first.

Should I abandon my Ally characters and start a Horde? If I am willing to completely let them go, I know how to transfer most of my wealth to a Horde toon. If I want to keep them around for occasional Ally play, then I'll have to start a Horde from scratch on another server.

The other issue is my son. We're in a good guild, which I helped to start and he is the second in command. It's got good 20s and 30s and we are working our way up together. He is more tied to the guild than I am, but I am not sure how he'd feel about abandoning it entirely.

Thoughts?

[Imraath]

You're only going to make the situation worse if you change faction. People whine about horde racials, shamans vs paladins etc, but the main reason that Alliance lose so often is a lack of experience in PvP. So if you leave, that's one less experienced Alliance PvPer in your battlegroup.

My suggestion, wait and see what happens when TBC comes out (and there is a noticable increase in inexperienced players rolling blood elves!).

You could also roll a horde char on a different server, specifically for those times when you're sick of losing and finally want a win under your belt ;)

[cdalman]

I sometimes have the same feelings as the OP about alliance in BG's. As the above poster said, your best bet is to wait and see what happens with the expansion.

The honor ladder will be gone so the honor farming will not be nearly as intense and some of us more casual players can see that top equipment eventually.

Also, some reports out of the TBC beta, are that the BG rep rewards are rolled into the new honor system. Meaning, that rep probably won't mean squat in a few months. Good news for those of us not exalted with all 3 BG's.

Plus, the new arena system will be great for many of us ally pvpers that lose in the huge group BG's. Being able to pvp in pairs and small groups will completely change things yet again. I can't wait to see how it shapes up.

My advice, is to play which side you (and your son) enjoy the most. I've played this game since a few months after it went live, and have tried every class horde and ally. In the end, all my lvl 60 toons are ally =) It sounds like you want to stick with your son's toon and the guild you created, so do that, but it doesnt mean you cant have an army of alt characters spread out just for fun!

[Krald]

Well, you know what, I probably lose more as my hordie than I win at 60. Trouble is, 90% of the horde pick ups just zerg the midfield and completely forget there are flags to capture and such. It's just the perils of a pick up group, most of them only win when the other side sucks more. You do get the odd gem which doesn't suck but that's rare.

Premades which have good, clear leadership are really the answer though if you want good teamwork and a winning side (I know you claim you find that hard though, but may just be a case of getting to know more people, maybe even "trialing" random people).

Also I'll say, I found when I played my priest alt in mid-level battlegrounds, we'd lose most of the time if I was just in a random pickup on my own, but when my druid friend was there.. we'd win like 95% of the time just because he was such an awesome carrier and I was pretty good support if neede. Plus, being shadow, and having mind vision rank 2 (at least in 40-49) I could actually return flags quite well to because I knew exactly where they were hiding via /target <carriername> and mind vision. I also dispelled ghost wolf on shaman a lot too, which was very useful. Sadly, the reason most warsong or even AB games are lost.. is simply because people do not know the objectives, but even a few who do can DRASTICALLY change the outcome (especially in warsong).

[elsamurderer]

I rolled 2 60 alliance toons before I went horde. And I tell you, the horde toon ALONE won about 5 times as many matches as my all my other characters combined. It seems to me that horde are also a lot nicer. Maybe that was just the server I was on though. Point in fact: I would say switching to horde is a great idea as long as you don't have a better reason for staying alliance (friends want to play with you and they're already allies, you're a zillionaire super person).

Bottom Line: A Horde of One. Go Horde.

[MadYak]

Yes, the horde are generally nicer. They are also more inclined to pvp whereas Alliance is inclined to raid. The alliance also tends to outnumber the horde which used to suck for horde in world pvp but is now a huge bonus for them since they don't have to wait as long for bgs. Occasionally, you will find a server where the horde outnumbers the alliance slightly (I luckily am on one, first serious alliance character).

Ultimately, I've found I like being on the side of the underdog. It used to be horde because they were always outnumbered pvp (my old server had a 7:1 alliance to horde ratio at lvl 60), but now it's Alliance because horde players tend to focus more on pvp and thusly tend to be better. The average age of Horde is also higher.

HOWEVER, I view the future as getting worse for horde and better for Alliance. All the idiots flock to the "omg look at me" characters. Alliance got nailed with the Night Elves, aka the billion night elf hunters and rogues (not all are like this, but a big chunk are). Once the expansion comes out, you'll see alot of the idiots migrate to horde to be a Blood Elf. I'll enjoy being Alliance then. Hopefully the server pops will balance out then, as well as the general attitudes of each faction.

Answering the OP: I suggest you stick it out for a bit. It sounds like your an older guy with a job/family that has limited playtime, and so getting to 40 is no easy feat. I suggest you wait until the expansion is out for a month or so, because you may find it much easier to win on Alliance side then.

[Gyoza]

yes.


Horde is more fun.

[Grendo]

I was in your boat.

My first toon to 60 was a pally. I found that I loved pvp but hated the fact alliance on our server (and later battlegroup) always lost if not premade. So, my second 60 was rolled not only horde, but on a pvp server.

I found that while BGs were more fun - since winning was more common and most players were stronger talent wise - outside of BGs there was NOTHING to do. End game guild spots were harde to come by and groups/instances werent much easier. The problem from the horde side is their population is much smaller (hence why they generally pvp better) and therefore more competition for spots and less opportunity.

In the end, I moved him to my allys server, which is carebear, and found many of the same problems.

I now play an alliance hunter as my main (same server), and hes far surpassed both other 60s in content at a much faster pace. Id rather find a great pvp group (which I have) AND have the ability to do other things outside battlegrounds then have an edge in the PuG BG war.

Thats a lot of effort just to go back where you started. But at least I know the 'other side'.

[Gyoza]

I was in your boat.

My first toon to 60 was a pally. I found that I loved pvp but hated the fact alliance on our server (and later battlegroup) always lost if not premade. So, my second 60 was rolled not only horde, but on a pvp server.

I found that while BGs were more fun - since winning was more common and most players were stronger talent wise - outside of BGs there was NOTHING to do. End game guild spots were harde to come by and groups/instances werent much easier. The problem from the horde side is their population is much smaller (hence why they generally pvp better) and therefore more competition for spots and less opportunity.

In the end, I moved him to my allys server, which is carebear, and found many of the same problems.

I now play an alliance hunter as my main (same server), and hes far surpassed both other 60s in content at a much faster pace. Id rather find a great pvp group (which I have) AND have the ability to do other things outside battlegrounds then have an edge in the PuG BG war.

Thats a lot of effort just to go back where you started. But at least I know the 'other side'.


I have been perfectly happy trading lower pop, fewer endgame guilds for better pvp and fewer 12 year olds...

Plus, the whole endgame guild thing is about to go out the window, so...

[Krald]

I have been perfectly happy trading lower pop, fewer endgame guilds for better pvp and fewer 12 year olds...

Plus, the whole endgame guild thing is about to go out the window, so...


If you think it's going out the window.. then by your logic so will pick up group battlegrounds with the invent of arena's and small fixed-groups. However I believe both will flourish.

[Houdy]

If you roll a horde toon, don't make a shaman and expect fantastic results.
You'll be left wondering what happened when your Windfury didnt proc and you get beat down in a few moments.
You'll quickly see that shaman (despite what whiner kids and complete rookies tell you) dont do nearly as much damage as you think they do.

I've had the most success in BG's going in with guildies and playing together as a team, while using vent, regardless of gear.

You're not going to be as successful in BG's playing with 39 random people who all their own agenda, skillset -or lack thereof, and communications medium.
Then again, you wouldnt go into a real-world 40 on 40 firefight without some coordination, a leader and a gameplan would ya?
no.. but i see tons of people do that each day in BG's.
you wouldnt do it 10 on 10 or 20 on 20 either.

Right now (i jsut checked vent) we have a full guild group in WSG.. tier 2-3 players all communicating on vent about their gameplan. Do you think a pickup group of players has a chance? First off, unelss they have the gear..likely not. Then, they dont have the communications either.
Keep that in mind when you think about who youre playing and losing to.

[Peter]

Basically, consider this, I have over 190 days /played between 3 level 60 alliance, i've also ran the whole 9 yards, was in a raid guild up to twin emps, was in a PvP group made up of marshals, even did the southshore zerg back in the day.

With TBC I deiced to take the leap, abandoned my alliance account, and rerolled horde. 190 DAYS, played, my gnome rogue even had a epic cat mount and thunderfury.

So yea, go horde.

P.S. if you are in the US roll on my server and ill get you into the new horde guild i started.

[Peter]

Oh, p.s. my server is Archimonde US, quite a few well known guilds started here, but have since transferred off, but there is still a very strong community.