Noob - How do I "Tank"

[Nocht]

Everytime I go with a party, they ask me to tank and I have no clue what that means. Please help.

Thanks

Spokane - LVL 21 Warrior, Hakkar

[mesonm]

All that means is that they want you to be the primary target for the mobs to beat on....I don't remember when you get certain talents and skills...

If you have them, go into defensive stance, taunt things, sunder, etc.

[NOYB]

There are lots of tanking guides on the web.

Basically, in a group, a warrior's job is to hold aggro. This can be accomplished in a variety of ways.

Before I tell you how to obtain and hold aggro there's something fundamental that is overlooked. Know the instance. If it's your first time in an instance you would do well to read up a bit beforehand. If that's not possible, let the party know you haven't tanked a particular dungeon before. Just about everyone has several different characters and it's somewhat likely that they've played a warrior and know it like the back of their hand. He/she may offer you some good advice on pulling mobs and how to react in certain situations. In time you'll be able to tell who is BSing you and who really knows their stuff.

Aggro management can be quite difficult. You have to know how and when to use your skills. You should also be adept at "stance dancing." (Switching stances to access more appropriate skills depending on the needs of the situation.)

Basically, you have a few core skills to tank.
Charge -- generate immediate rage and stun a target for a second. **Not always appropriate to initiate combat with charge. Just being the first target of a mob gives you special consideration.
(can only be done from battle stance)

Sunder armor -- doesn't do damage, but generates hate. Even on trash mobs I'll throw a couple of sunder armors. It builds hate and enables rogues to do more damage. For boss monsters keep 5 sunders up at all times. Even when you have 5 sunders stacked it can be beneficial to throw an occasional sunder. It's cheap aggro. Use it. A lot.
(can be done from battle and defensive stance) I recommend defensive stance. You'll mitigate more damage and incur extra hate.

Revenge -- You won't be the king of DPS with revenge, but the mobs will hate you for using it. If you have a couple of sunders on a mob and revenge lights up, hit him with it. But remember to keep those sunders coming.

Taunt -- You've just aggroed 3 mobs and started sundering a target. The mage AOEs a little too soon and 2 mobs break away. What do you do? If you said, "let the mage die" that's wrong. You use taunt. Immediately, target one of the mobs and taunt it. That buys you a few seconds to get #1 on his hate list. You do that by using the previous skills.

Ok, so you've managed to get two mobs on you, but #3 is still looking to pound the mage into the dirt. Assuming CC isn't an option and taunt is cooling down you still have more tricks up your sleeve.

Mocking blow -- (battle stance) This instant attack forces a mob to pay special consideration to you for a few attacks. Now switch back to defensive stance and be prepared to sunder, revenge, and taunt.

Keep in mind the usefulness of shouts. Also pay attention to your surroundings. Will a demo shout draw aggro from mobs you don't want noticing you? Will you tick off that crab in BFD by demo shouting? Yes, you will. Though, it's a trash mob, no priest wants to have a couple of crabs chomping away at him because you AOE aggroed.

Which brings me to...

Challenging shout -- You've got 3 mobs running around looking to make your cloth wearers into lunch. You've got 1 mob glued to you, low on rage, and things are looking rough. Use challenging shout. Smack bloodrage, thunderclap, cleave, and start sundering. If things are really bad you can use retaliation. It's for emergency situations, but it's better to use it and save the group than conserve it for the boss you didn't make it to.

The main thing you need to be thinking about is, "how can I hold aggro"? Not, "how can I do the most DPS"? DPS, is not unimportant, but a good tank is concerned with using his most threat generating skills at the right time. Not building up a huge rage bar for execute.

[sycamore]

Great post, NOYB.

Um... you couldn't do one for newbie healers too, could you? I've just got my first priest to lvl 22 and I'm too scared of screwing up royally to even think of going to Deadmines :(

[Hunter Noventa]

Bravo NOYB, you really ought to put that in the warrior forum if there's not already something similar there.

[Nocht]

OK - That was awesome! Thanks!

What is a mob? Is that one person or 5?

Also, I have a hard time figuring out who is who in an instance because everybody is all over the place. Any good suggestions? BTW - I have zero Mods.

[Nocht]

So I should stop beating people and just concentrate on keeping everyone on me? I cant wait to try out the deadmines again.

[zkajan]

you should concentrate on keeping all the mobs hitting you (unless they are CCd (i.e. sheeped, slept, seduced, sapped, etc...), healer should concentrate on keeping you alive, and the rest should not be taking damage unless it comes from AOE spells. A mob is a single AI controlled enemy, i.e. a Defias Pillager. Several mobs that come at you together when you fight one is called a pack. Mobs that atack you when you atack another one even though they weren't standing together with it are said to be chained together.

[pthgar]

Mob is short for "Mobile Entity" and refers to any NPC (Non-Player Character) enemy that you will encounter. It can refer to 1 or more NPCs. It is not synonomous with the "mob" that refers to a lot of people, as in "A mob of zombies are knocking on the door and want to eat your brain."

[cyradis2003]

Great post, NOYB.

Um... you couldn't do one for newbie healers too, could you? I've just got my first priest to lvl 22 and I'm too scared of screwing up royally to even think of going to Deadmines :(


Priests are loved, parties will be gentle with you if you tell them you are new to healing.

The main thing I like to do is keep my big heals a bit spread out, mobs don't like it when pepole heal their dinner (tank) so they come after you if you heal too much. Slap a renew on people when they start taking damage and keep an eye on the life bars. If there is one person getting beat down I will usually leave their portrait open and cast heals directly, if not I will remain untargeted and cast heals by keying and clicking - IE my heals are my hot bar for instances 1 is renew so I hit 1 and click the druid's portrait, hit 2 and flash heal click the rogue's, portrait, 3 to greater heal when I clicky my warrior and 5 when they are all damaged and I have to prayer of healing. I also keep dispell magic and shield on that bar - if some hoodoo woman turns your tank into a frog she is going to be coming after you soon, de-frog him fast!

You want to disable selfcast in your interface options first. When this is on you will be casting all those heals on yourself if you don't target first.

Renew spreads healing out and keeps the aggro from turning to you so quickly, most fights can be done with 3 or 4 renews on the party and maybe a heal or 2 on the tank

Your job in an instance will be to heal. You need to save your mana for that and dispelling magical effects. If there is a small pull like 1 or 2 mobs you can go ahead and cast Shadow word pain and wand them some but you really need to concentrate on keeping people alive for bigger pulls. It also helps if you set a healing order and let people know ahead of time what that order is. Example: Tank gets my main healing, Druids then casters next and rogues last (they have aggro tools that the other classes lack so they can break off and bandage usually if you tell them they are going to have to) if you preserve your mana by healing the tank primarily and intervening with a shield and renew on the casters you should get through fights without losing anyone. Be sure your tank knows he has to pull mobs off the casters though or they will die without full healing and that is not the result you want.

Also as the priest do not be afraid to ask the tank to use a shield. Two handed weapons or dual wielding are fine in many cases but if you are having trouble keeping up with heals then ask politely for the warrior to put on his shield. If your druid is tanking he should be in bear form, if they are not tanking you can ask them to pop out and heal if they see you low on mana. (most druids will do that anyway)

This is pretty basic and no where near as comprehensive as that great warrior guide above but I hope it helps a bit. Healing isn't always static, your group will have a big role in how you heal. If you have a warrior with poor aggro management or a few levels under say a mage you will have to adjust to that. You need to first and foremost keep the most important person in the group alive. Usually this is the tank but sometimes it can be a rogue or any other class for that matter. If the situation looks grim try to figure out how it can be saved, if the warrior and the rogue are going down and the last mob is half life and you are holding your last scrap of mana I might heal the rogue as opposed to the tank, less chance of aggro coming at you if the tank dies, more chance the rogue can kill one mob faster than a tank which means the fight ends sooner and you can start ressing sooner. This of course depends on how good the rogue and the tank are respectively .... nothing is set in stone, just keep your mind working towards the end goal of finishing the instance with as few deaths all around as possible.

Practice makes perfect, if you wipe a few times at first don't worry about it just learn from it and try again.

[mesonm]

So I should stop beating people and just concentrate on keeping everyone on me? I cant wait to try out the deadmines again.

One thing to make sure you tell people you party with...And that is to come to the tank if they attract a mob...so you don't have to hunt them down as they get beaten on....

[sycamore]

Priests are loved, parties will be gentle with you if you tell them you are new to healing...
That's a wonderfully helpful post, thank you so much. It's really appreciated. :flowers:

Now I just have to work up the courage to join a group - unfortunately I'm not in a guild (RL + compulsive alt rolling = can't commit the time to a guild that they'd deserve) so it's another pug... can I hijack this thread and turn it into a 'how to run an instance for the first time without killing everyone' thread? :-)

Thanks again Cyradis, that's exactly the sort of thing I've been looking for.

[sycamore]

Practice makes perfect, if you wipe a few times at first don't worry about it just learn from it and try again.

This is my biggest problem: how do I meet people that will have that attitude rather than the omfgn00bursh!troflbbqrerolln00bl00zr attitude I've seen directed towards other people? When I first started I was in some wonderful pugs, we wiped relentlessly but still really supported each other (morally, if not literally); I haven't grouped since two really nightmarish runs in a row, both times where someone suddenly picked a group member to pick on an utterly demoralise (not me either time, but since they hadn't done anything to deserve the things that were said to them it makes you scared you're next in line for an attack).

I know the answer is to trust that things will go better next time, but...

Edit: just realised that I should have said that my previous instance experience was with a mage, I liked that kind of class in the instances I did because apart from having to sheep or aoe a couple of times I could mainly stay out of trouble, do a bit of nuking and protect the healer.

[cyradis2003]

That's a wonderfully helpful post, thank you so much. It's really appreciated. :flowers:

Now I just have to work up the courage to join a group - unfortunately I'm not in a guild (RL + compulsive alt rolling = can't commit the time to a guild that they'd deserve) so it's another pug... can I hijack this thread and turn it into a 'how to run an instance for the first time without killing everyone' thread? :-)

Thanks again Cyradis, that's exactly the sort of thing I've been looking for.

You will do fine! Instances are really just like parties out in the wild but with better prizes!

Stay behind your party, as a cloth wearer you want to be the last thing monsters see. Don't be afraid to use your fade skill (that belongs up top ... if you get aggro on you pop fade and if that doesn't work shield and run to the tank) Honestly, you have nothing to worry about. If you group with experienced players they will be easy to heal since they will be performing their roles correctly. If you group with new instance runners then you are all learning together and a wipe teaches you quite a bit and they don't know better anyway :grin: .

Renew is your friend. Holy shields on the party are last resort to keep them alive for renew to work while you cast a bigger heal or used on the tank (or other puller if a hunter is taking first shots) before the pull as they can deflect monsters onto you. Dead priests heal no one, keep yourself alive so you can keep them alive. Don't be afraid to ask the party to stop so you can drink. No mana = No heals.

If people are going too fast ask them to slow down so you can mana up before pulls. If they don't slow down then just keep drinking while they pull, healing isn't needed the first few seconds anyway.



Looting in instances can be different. Make sure you ask how it works before you start. Different groups have different ideas on the right way to loot. Mostly you roll Greed on everything and Need only on the things you will actually wear. If you are an enchanter you do not roll need just to disenchant something. For boss loots that bind when picked up you pass unless you will wear it. If you are an enchanter and no one needs the item ask if you can DE, if they all say yes then you can roll need. Sometimes people like ro roll on the shards so don't be surprised if your group does - mostly you get to keep them though.

If an item is a few levels above you and someone else can wear it right away and needs it you can ask them if they mind you rolling as well. Usually it is polite to let them have it since it will just sit in your bank and you will likely be running that instance again and will have another shot at it.

If you get into a good group and you all got along well tell them that they can whisper you if they ever need a priest again. This is a good way to get regular groups going. Once you are in a regular group healing gets easier because you start to learn who can do what and how much they can take before reaching critical. You also learn how much you can do before the mobs leave the tank and come for you.

Never be afraid to ask for what you need to heal them better. If you need the tank to use a shield ask. If you run out of water (try to stock up before each run and be sure to repair!!) ask if anyone has some or if you can get all of it that drops or if the mage can make you some. You aren't being greedy or bossy if you do it politely.

Priests are fun and like I said they are loved. People will cut you a lot of slack as you learn because they will want you to play with them again if you are nice. It is easier to teach a nice person to be a good healer than it is to teach a good healer to be a nice person (assuming the healer isn't nice .... that came out wierd but you get the drift)



RE the question above:

This isn't foolproof but you can pick groups based on the toon names sometimes. Like you can be fairly sure someone named Pwnyurface isn't going to be a supportive person while Ryulian (or whatever) might be. If you see names that are rude, involve bodily fluids (blood is probably ok) or sex acts you may want to avoid them. This isn't fair since some people name the toons sarcastically but you may miss out on a few good folks while avoiding a LOT of bad ones.

Look for people that ask for groups politely or at least not rudely since most requests are standard now. Go with "Looking for healer for VC" over "Need healer VC - last noob bailed" or "LFG VC" over "SOMEONE HAS TO BE RUNNING VC FFS!!!"

pps:

Last thing .... Don't be afraid to leave a group if the people are being real jerks. You are a priest and can find another group pretty easily, let them be nice or let them spend 45 minutes kicking the dirt in LFG channel searching for a healer. A little attitude is expected from people but a real jerk just ruins your fun.

[sycamore]

Thank you again, another really helpful post. I really appreciate you taking the time to do this.

And this is wonderful for putting things in perspective:

If you group with experienced players they will be easy to heal since they will be performing their roles correctly. If you group with new instance runners then you are all learning together and a wipe teaches you quite a bit and they don't know better anyway :grin: .

I'll remember that! and try to remember everything else - I've bookmarked it for future reference.

I guess the problem with WoW is that it's been around so long, and even though there are supposed to be loads of new players joining all the time, they all want to appear like they're old hands because there can be so much of that 'gtfo u r a n00b' stuff. But you're right, there's nothing wrong with not having done an instance or not having played a specific class before :-)

Thanks yet again :flowers: and I guess even :heart: :smiley:

[Beruen]

Don't be afraid to guild, sycamore. Aim at a casual guild, and ask about how they deal with alts/infrequent players. My guild doesn't gkick anyone until they haven't logged in for 2-3 months, and I'm the alt poster boy. 6 guilded characters, and I'm the only one that knows all of them. Jokes about needing a scorecard abound. Most guildies, if they have a question for me, will aim the question at my main, and watch for me to answer from whoever I happen to be playing at the time.

From what I've seen, most any Deadmines group will be happy to have a healer, though as mentioned, make a point of letting them know if/when it's your first run through any instance as healer, or first time group healing period.

Beyond that, the important parts to remember are:
1) you're not DPS, save your mana for healing. Dropping Shadow Word: Pain at the start of a fight (but after the tank has established aggro) is usually acceptable. No Mind Blasts, and Mind Flay only on runners if noone else is going to slow them down in time and your healing isn't needed elsewhere. If you're bored, wand, but be ready to cancel wanding fast. The worst thing that can happen to a healer is to have a party wipe because you were low on mana after DPSing, and many groups will hold it against you.
2) As has been mentioned here, let them know how you intend on healing. Some priests will heal whenever they have a full manabar, often keeping the entire party near full health, others won't heal unless there won't be much overheal. The latter style can make party members used to the former style very nervous if they don't know what's going on.
4) Communicate. If you need a break to get mana back or to rebuff everyone, say so. I try to remember to always look at everyone's health/mana bars before pulling, but I don't always remember. They may still pull because they don't see your message, but at least it's less likely.
5) make sure the group decides who's doing what role. Its not too bad in Deadmines, but even there, having someone decide that they're going to pull while someone else makes the same decision but targetting a different group can be very bad. No, ensuring this should not be your responsibility, but in a lot of PUGs, noone takes the responsibility and it doesn't happen. A lot of people will say that this isn't needed for DM/VC, and they're probably right, but why learn bad habits in the first place?
6) if the party wipes, look at what went wrong. Don't try to place blame, just try to correct the error. Sometimes, someone will refuse to change behavior that may have lead to the wipe. Don't fight over it, either accept that more wipes may happen, or leave the group. There really are players out there that aren't interested in learning how to play, they just want to do their thing their way, whatever that may be. They're not worth stressing over.

[sycamore]

Thank you, Beruen; I feel really encouraged by what you say about finding guilds. All my alts (mage, priest and rogue, but only the mage is anywhere near a respectable level, though if you added together all the deleted ones it could be quite impressive *optimistic grin*) are on different servers, because I wanted to experience the game properly as each class (<-- is an idiot :-/ ) but I've seen guilds I really like for two of them, so I will do what you suggest and ask about infrequency - it would be really nice to have some kind of base to link to. That really hadn't occurred to me before, even thought the guilds I've been attracted to have been fairly casual. Obviously <-- is thick :-(

I think my strategy for either tomorrow or friday night, depending on pesky RL stuff, is to advertise myself as a newbie healer looking for a nice, laid back group, to make it clear that my main priority is the tank, then casters, then rogue/hunter (given their special abilities), druids and paladins get priority over casters; give the big heals to the tank when he's less than half health, renew to the casters, um, work out what to do about rogues and the like at the time, make sure if I'm not being covered and I get aggro that I run to the warrior/whatever tankish type class is still alive, and not blame everyone else when we're corpse running :smiley:

I think the biggest priority is the getting a nice group bit :smiley: beyond that it could be great. So I guess if I tell everyone I'm rubbish before we start that they've forfeited the right to slag me off?

Thank you, Beruen, I really appreciate your suggestions: :flowers: for you too :smiley:

[NOYB]

When you're running instances look for balanced groups. If you're an inexperienced healer, look for a group with a paladin. He/she should be doing the front-line healing. If I'm playing a paladin I'm always quick to keep heals on the warrior. Allowing the priest to heal me. That way if the warrior drops aggro, it goes to me. Not the priest. Really though, a good paladin will make your job significantly easier. With the seals, heals, and buffs they bring to the table, no party should be without one, IMO. :)

[teck21]

To the OP, so far everyone has gone on about how tanks should be holding aggro, but there's one more thing that's very important for a tank to know, and that's where to hold the aggro, not just that you have to hold aggro.

Where to fight the mobs, espcially some bosses later on. For example, there are some high level bosses who have nasty auras that do damage to everyone in the party, so it's the tank's job not only to get the boss' full attention, but also to pull the boss somewhere safe so the rest of the group can do their stuff.

BTW, I am a total noob warrior tank as well. I have a level 40 tanking warrior who has never done any real tanking before because I was afraid to try it, lol. I have read up extensively on tanking, and felt confident enough to make a go for SM. I did make sure to warn the group that I was new and wanted to learn how to tank.

They said okay, but of course the 2 retnoob pallies went charging in to hit anything and everything they wanted. Still the run went smoothly enough (with 3 plate wearers and 3 healers, of course it was going to go well for an instance like SM), but I don't think I got the practice that I feel I need.

I will try again, and hopefully someone in the group has a warrior main who will give me a few pointers.

sycamore, don't be afraid to heal, in fact, I find the most fun part about healing is when the pressure healing is needed, lol. As a holy / Prot (mostly) pally, I absolutely love going to the 5 mans as sole healer and do get a bit disappointed when the groups say they want a priest. :)

If the group's not altogether stupid, I can more than adequately heal every 5-man instance to the end. Only thing I wouldn't consider to doing Jandice Barov as sole healer / cleanser.

Keeping the group alive from start to finish gives a real high knowing you have done your job well.

[Thoragord]

Dont be afraid of other people saying rude things to you because you messed up, if they cant speak to you with any decency then leave the group. If they keep whispering block em. Just dont worry about idiots like that cause there are plenty of polite nice people playing that remember being a noob.

[degnar]

Sasja wrote a great guide for learning to tank over in the warrior forum.

http://forums.worldofwar.net/showthread.php?t=372972

[zkajan]

well some later mobs have aoe cone type abilities (a spreading arc in front of the mob) so when you tank these make sure you face the mob/boss away from the rest of the party

[Oatmealsmurf]

wanted to add to the healing guide... do not shield a tank at the start of the fight. It only hinders his ability to generate rage and thus use some of his better talents at generating aggro. Only shield the tank if in the event of an emergency when you won't have time to get a heal off before he dies. Tanks benefit from damage taken as well as damage dealt.

[zkajan]

wanted to add to the healing guide... do not shield a tank at the start of the fight. It only hinders his ability to generate rage and thus use some of his better talents at generating aggro. Only shield the tank if in the event of an emergency when you won't have time to get a heal off before he dies. Tanks benefit from damage taken as well as damage dealt.

5 mans sure, but in a raid setting that 1k sheield will get chewed through in first attack or so anyway, and lets healers get positioned before starting heals

[Ebgreen]

There is a very in depth discussion of shiled/not in the priest forum. Basicly it all boils down to play style.

[Oatmealsmurf]

Well given that he's trying to figure out how to tank ... I'm thinking he isn't going to be MT in a raid any time soon. :D