Realm Drama - <TG> Ninjas Nef

[Dynatos]

A guildmate pointed this out today.

<TG>, a top raiding guild on their server (near the end of Naxx), offered to purchase another guild's instance to kill Nefarian for Tier 2 chest drops. That guild agreed, but only if 5 of their members could tag along and roll on any loot drops.

<TG> said no, 2 people maximum and they would only get what <TG> didn't want. So, the offer was declined.

<TG> then started sending out raid invites to all of the members of this other guild. Someone accepted the invite without thinking and<TG> assigned him to leader, entered the instance, and essentially ninja'd their raid.

You can read the whole story here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=38124048&sid=1&pageNo=1

Discuss.

[Dutchgrass]

Pathetic.

Shows that there are still some flaws with the raid ID system.

[Mallstrop]

It does sound quite harsh. But I imagine the GMs will call it an "interesting use of game mechanics" like they do with so many other things.

[Twoflower]

it is a interesting use indeed ^^ And i wouldnt even bother to read it, childs play will be over next week and nobody got realy hurt...

btw wtf is a guild who reached "near the end of naxx" still doing in bwl ?

[Dynatos]

That's the thing; they're not. Apparently they're on the 4H in Naxx, but wanted 8/8 Tier 2 for a couple of their members, so they ninja'd the raid lock so they wouldn't need to clear the whole instance.

[zkajan]

I used to be on Arthas, TG is known for exploiting as much as posible. Back during oldschool Vael for example they used to do the "stack mind vision" trick to get rid of the debuff that makes you explode. Everyone of their classes that could use a mace had the one that made you drop the flag in WSG. Etc...

[Baal]

Sometimes I'm glad I'm only level 50 and have no idea what you're talking about... Seems like there's so much drama in this game when you hit 60.

[Dynatos]

Sometimes I'm glad I'm only level 50 and have no idea what you're talking about... Seems like there's so much drama in this game when you hit 60.

I'll explain for the heck of it.

20- and 40-man raid instance are all on timers (3 days for ZG/AQ20, 5 days for Onyxia, and 7 days for MC/BWL/AQ40/Naxx). This means that, during that time period (7 days for BWL), once you've killed a boss in any given instance it stays dead. There's no way client-side to reset the encounters.

When a boss dies in a raid instance you're attending, you become "locked" to that instance ID. Say, for instance, your group kills the first boss in BWL the day it is reset. You are now locked to that instance. If, during the next 7-day period, you attempt to join a BWL group that has not yet killed the first boss and that group subsequently makes you leader and enters the instance, your "locked" instance ID now transfers to that group. So now they're considered sharers in your instance ID.

What <TG> did was invite someone who was locked to a specific BWL ID that had all but the final BWL boss killed, promoted him to leader, and entered BWL. They thereby "stole" the instance ID. They then proceeded to kill Nefarian, the final boss in BWL, without having to first kill the other 7 bosses. That ID is now logged as having killed Nefarian, and the group who had put in all of the work to kill the first 7 bosses loses out on the Nefarian kill.

[Dynatos]

it is a interesting use indeed ^^ And i wouldnt even bother to read it, childs play will be over next week and nobody got realy hurt...


Someone did get hurt, though. From what I understand, the guild that cleared to Nefarian had never before killed him. So, they probably spent 4+ hours and many wipes killing through Chromagg with the intent of spending another couple nights in the week working on their raid progression with Nefarian.

Instead, <TG> killed Nefarian and ruined the other guild's chance at progression for the week.

[rgirty]

Baal, there really isn't that much drama. The drama typically rotates around loot and people obsessed over getting it. If you stay away from the very high end demanding raiding guild atmosphere you probably won't see a lot of it. Most of it seems to generate there.

[rgirty]

So, they probably spent 4+ hours and many wipes killing through Chromagg with the intent of spending another couple nights in the week working on their raid progression with Nefarian

The "steal" happened at 10pm on monday night apparently just before the normal reset and the guild in question had never and were not going to try and down nef, so nef would have not been downed and the instance reset.

The TG guild basically claims since nef was going to "rot" that no one was harmed by them killing nef.

That seems to be the stem of the drama, the 10:00 pm monday night time that it happened.

[Dhymlos]

The "steal" happened at 10pm on monday night apparently just before the normal reset and the guild in question had never and were not going to try and down nef, so nef would have not been downed and the instance reset.

The TG guild basically claims since nef was going to "rot" that no one was harmed by them killing nef.

That seems to be the stem of the drama, the 10:00 pm monday night time that it happened.

Exactly. Though it didn't help that some TG members taunted the RTZS member once he entered BWL to question them, nor the fact that they implicated multiple RTZS guild members in setting up the steal.

Actually, from the sounds of it they have been stealing instances from RTZS for awhile now, it was just this incident which finally brought it to light.

In the end, while I agree with TG that Nef would have gone to waste had they not done it, they had no right to take the instance forcefully from RTZS. Considering RTZS did the work it was their instance to decide what to do with, and if that meant Nef rots, then Nef rots.

Stuff like this is what seriously turns me off from joining the raiding scene... What ever happened to having leaders you can respect?

[Hydro]

Sounds like TG is having problems clearing real content so they breed drama to try and hide it.
If they were doing well, they would have been doing the 4H, not Nefarian, and it's a common pattern in WoW.

[rgirty]

dhymlos, whether you agree with it or not the timing of the event was the source of the drama.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, in general people are mean and nasty.

[Baal]

When I hit 60, I plan on helping lowbies do instances, and also soloing instances myself and giving the better equipment I manage to get to random people who look like they can use it (I don't know which I'll be able to handle as a 60 priest - but at 50 I just tried ragefire chasm and it was a breeze - so hopefully I'll be able to do a number of the lower level ones).

I've only grouped twice for instances, and I had one where a 60 Shaman ran me through because I couldn't find a group - that was really cool of him :)

[Dhymlos]

dhymlos, whether you agree with it or not the timing of the event was the source of the drama.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, in general people are mean and nasty.

Yup, yup. I completely agree with you. Just stating my mind about the situation.

[Farq]

Ok, quick post... Dhymlos, you say that they forcefully took the instance from them? Nobody sat at the other guys PC and accepted the raid invite for him. They invited him, he accepted it. I dont agree with what they did, if the other guild didnt wanna give it to them then they had no right to be there, but if they tried invited someone, then that person accepts without knowing why he was invited to a group, then so be it, he should have thought about what he was doing. Good lesson for next time eh lol, and nobody will care in a week cause its gonna reset and they can do it all again...

[Dhymlos]

Ok, quick post... Dhymlos, you say that they forcefully took the instance from them? Nobody sat at the other guys PC and accepted the raid invite for him. They invited him, he accepted it. I dont agree with what they did, if the other guild didnt wanna give it to them then they had no right to be there, but if they tried invited someone, then that person accepts without knowing why he was invited to a group, then so be it, he should have thought about what he was doing. Good lesson for next time eh lol, and nobody will care in a week cause its gonna reset and they can do it all again...

I'll admit that forcefully was probably the wrong word to use in this case. I only meant that they took the instance from RTZS against their consent.

And you're absolutely right about it being a relatively small event in the long run, but it still doesn't excuse the fact that it happened.

[Morollan]

I've waded through several pages of that thread and it seems very clear that TG are utter scumbags. Even one of the more 'reasonable' guild members said that they were taking Nef whether RTZS knew about it or not.

The most astounding thing about it is that none of them seem to grasp the fact that they are doing something wrong. They are all trotting out the same line "The instance was going to reset so who cares?". I do hope that the other players on that server remember this incident when it comes time to level through the expansion and ensure that nobody in TG ever gets into a group.

[Dynatos]

I've waded through several pages of that thread and it seems very clear that TG are utter scumbags. Even one of the more 'reasonable' guild members said that they were taking Nef whether RTZS knew about it or not.

The most astounding thing about it is that none of them seem to grasp the fact that they are doing something wrong. They are all trotting out the same line "The instance was going to reset so who cares?". I do hope that the other players on that server remember this incident when it comes time to level through the expansion and ensure that nobody in TG ever gets into a group.

If I played on that server, and my /ignore list was long enough, every member of <TG> would be added to it. But, I like to think I'm both morally and ethically sound.

[rgirty]

People do not have the same morals.

What might be "within the rules" and perfectly fine to some, might be immoral to others.

This is the base of strife/drama/conflict between humans. From teenage boy/girl conflicts, to WoW, all the way up to full scale war between countries.

I don't mean to blur the line between a game and reality, but when a real person sits at the keyboard and does these type of things it is his/her morality that makes the decision not the in game char.

[Laringar]

It's the Jekyll and Hyde complex... for anyone who's read the book. Jekyll's potion made him Hyde, but he was fully aware of what he was doing, he just knew that he would change back, and avoid the responsibility for his crimes.

It's the same sort of thing here... people who know (or at least think... we all have to account for ourselves eventually) that they'll never take true responsibility for their actions will quite often behave in an immoral way.

[Icefrost]

Yep, opporutunity makes a thief, or however you say that in english.

[Twoflower]

on a sidenote : wasnt there a limit of 60 players that can share a id ?

[mesonm]

I find it disappointing that the original guildies that wanted their instance back didn't ask their member who was then the leader of the raid to kick everyone else out....

Or ML the boss and take everything.

heh...