rouge weakness?

[Daren]

is there any way to kill them witha warlock

[snowieken]

Well, the tricky part with rouge, is when there is much wind, the powder blows right up your nose, while the idea is to color your cheeks. If it gets in your eyes it can turn nasty. But apart from that I have no idea why you would need a warlock to kill it, or how you could kill it all the same. Or, why you would post this in the PvP forum while this is clearly off topic!

[Mincemaker]

How to kill a rouge with a warlock? Wash it off the cheeks with water. Problem solved.

[Numbra]

I LMAO'd alot

[Underling]

It's spelled as rogUe, Daren

And you can easily kill them with a warlock at later levels. At earlier lvls, rogues are a pain in the butt

[Daren]

It's spelled as rogUe, Daren

And you can easily kill them with a warlock at later levels. At earlier lvls, rogues are a pain in the butt

thank you

Edited out some naughty words

-snowieken

[xxlebox]

weakness of a so called "rogue" is dodging(but only when fighting warriors though) as they can be overpowered all the time, which can take an average rogue down in, ... let's say 4 seconds?

[Nitsujcm]

Well, the tricky part with rouge, is when there is much wind, the powder blows right up your nose, while the idea is to color your cheeks. If it gets in your eyes it can turn nasty. But apart from that I have no idea why you would need a warlock to kill it, or how you could kill it all the same. Or, why you would post this in the PvP forum while this is clearly off topic!


How to kill a rouge with a warlock? Wash it off the cheeks with water. Problem solved.


Please see the following web site, for it is an excellent resource on grammar.

http://www.bartleby.com/141/strunk.html

You will find you both have used either incomplete sentences, improper commas, or one of many other horrible grammatical errors. Do not even get me started on the correct spacing between your sentences. Please learn to type perfectly if you expect others to do the same.


but if you like to pwn noobs with a rouge – me and you are cool. Elitists bug me. “ I shall look down upon you with my mod abilities. “

as for an answer-
I would suggest fear as soon as you can- 3 dots and sick your pet on them. Then death coil followed by life drain. They will try to stunlock you and if they do and you die- do not feel bad- you are cloth and they are dps – they should win.

They can go from stealthed to you being dead and you not have one chance to move. Its called a proper stunlock. Ironic it even has your name in it - lock.

From stealth they can cheap shot you – then sinister strike – then gouge – then a possible 5 point eviscerate- then blind – then vanish – then cheap shot – then sinister strike – the gouge – then another possible 5 point eviscerate – blind- preparation – vanish – cheap shot- sinister strike- 5 point eviscerate – blind – backstab. If they pull off all points of this combo with out a miss or dodge or resist and you are wearing cloth armor you are dead before they get half way into it 90% of the time. The full combo should kill any cloth wearer. If they screw up – take advantage of it and fear them.

[Peter]

Sorry I'm not a cross dresser

[Herald of Doom]

Please see the following web site, for it is an excellent resource on grammar.

http://www.bartleby.com/141/strunk.html

You will find you both have used either incomplete sentences, improper commas, or one of many other horrible grammatical errors. Do not even get me started on the correct spacing between your sentences. Please learn to type perfectly if you expect others to do the same.


but if you like to pwn noobs with a rouge – me and you are cool. Elitists bug me. “ I shall look down upon you with my mod abilities. “

Yes, grammar= basic spelling. Very good of you! There's a reason why many tongue in cheek WoW video's emphasize the spelling of the word rogue you know.. Cuz its funneeeeh woow yeh!

Anyway, if you spot the rogue before he sees you, dot him,fearkite, dead rogue. If he stunlocks me, I find I'm pretty much toast (lowlevel lock though, i guess it doesnt change much at 60).

HoD

[Nitsujcm]

point is - it is a common mistake and if you take pleasure from calling someone out on it you can go screw yourself because you are no better...

"oh look, someone misspelled it again! yea - another chance to make fun of someone lesser than me! I am teh 1337est haxxor ever! I catch it EVERYTIME some makes this mistake! Its the only reason I play wow!"

the guy was looking for some help. First two posts were bashing him with out any help at all. One was by a mod. I thought this forum was about helping each other... guess this mod feels differently. You only get help if you have perfect spelling/grammar...

*edit*

If you are human - use perception as often as you can.

Sorry I'm not a cross dresser

who said you were? is there something you would like to share with everyone?

[KalziEast]

Well, the problem with rouge is not enough women wear it, but usually the few that do, wear too much. Thing is, I like my women with nearly no makeup because usually that means they're covering something up, or they think they're ugly without it. Then again though, I find a fault on everyone, whether it be on their body, or their personality, I ALWAYS see faults. Maybe I'm too picky? =)

Edit: Felt I should help. I'm too nice. I have a Rogue, our biggest weakness is that when we're feared, we have 0 DPS, and during that fear time if DoT's are going, we're not only doing 0 DPS, but we're dying at the same time which we hate to do =D. Also, remember, Shadowbolt almost ALWAYS breaks fear, so unless the person is at 50% health or less and you think you can take them out in 1-2 Shadowbolt's then DON'T do it.

[snowieken]

Hmm, somehow I had no idea my little tongue-in-cheek remark would cause so many heated arguments. And if I say heated, I do mean heated: that kind of language is definately not tolerated here, Daren. The cause does not matter. I edited that post and would like to add that addressing a moderator with those words normally means an instant ban. But because I seem to be the cause of it myself, I would be pretty lame to ban you for it, so I'm letting you off the hook this time. Just take care of what you post in the future, and to whom you are posting it.

Nitsujcm: as you pointed out, I make spelling and grammar mistakes as well, basically because I am not a native English speaker myself. Normally I don't make comments about someone's ability to type correctly when making a post, and "elitists" who do that all the time bug me as much as you. But "rouge" is so widespread, as are the jokes about it, that I couldn't refrain from making another crack at it. For that I apologize, but I also want to mention that I believe you are a bit overreacting to something that is meant to be a harmless joke. It was not an elitist grammar/spelling correction, it was a joke.

I didn't help him because of two main reasons: 1) I know nothing about rogues - apart from the way it is spelled - and 2) I know less about warlocks. So yes, I might have been wrong posting in this thread anyway with a post that contributes nothing to the topic at hand. But I have to say I am quite surprised to see that I am called an "elitist" and even worse than that (that bit I edited out). And the thing that extremely annoys me about this is that you have to drag in the fact that I am a moderator. First of all, I would not be a moderator if I didn't deserve it somehow. I swear, I can make 100 posts helping people out, but if I make one little harmless joke about someone, those 100 posts have been forgotten and all of a sudden, I am "looking down upon people with my mod abilities". Or all of a sudden, "I don't seem to think this forum is about helping people". Because of one little joke. Yes, I am a moderator, but I am also a human being. I have posted in this forum long before my name was green and I like to make jokes every now and then, even though they don't appeal to everyone. And I am not looking down upon anyone, I just posted what came to mind without any intention of harm.

So, bottom line, Nitsujcm: I agree that my post was unnecessary and I apologize for that, but I also think you are overreacting. Not to mention Daren. Again, it was a harmless joke, a harmless tongue-in-cheek remark, and I didn't mean anything bad by it.

[Nitsujcm]

Well said. I apologize for calling you an elitist and overreacting. After this post I really do think you are an asset to the site. I do appreciate a joke. And yes the language was not necessary. It was more that he asked for help and only got heckled that got me worked up. I have been there- need help with something – ask and bam – you get shot down. These forums seem to be a place were something like that doesn’t sit well and if it is on someone’s first post they are usually told to watch it or move on.

I realize you are a mod and you “probably” deserve it, but we have all come across a mod who thought he was God (loI @ your avatar). In fact I have run across a mod on this site I had an issue with and I think I almost got banned b/c I kept calling him out on things. It’s not that I want to rebel or anything- I love the site. But I can’t stand abuse of power. If some jerk wants to push someone around b/c he is a mod and can- I’m going to be one of the first to jump down his through – ban or no ban. You didn’t deserve it and I did jump to quick on you due to the actions of another mod on this site. So again, I apologize.

I know this forum is about helping people, that’s why I said something. If this came up on the official forums I wouldn’t have said anything because you are asking for abuse if you ask for help there.




On a side note- I have always wanted to make a rogue and name it rouge to spite all the people who feel the need to correct it. It is always taken… I wonder if they person who took it knows they made a mistake or if they knew what they were doing. Maybe I will make MoulinRogue instead.

[MadVlad]

The irony here is that snkutsm is also being elitist.

[snowieken]

Thanks for the apology. I respect that.

And MadVlad, maybe you want to read the entire thread instead of making smartbehind comments.

May I also humbly ask everyone to keep this thread on track now - although I was the first to digress from it - or I'll be locking it before you can submit your post. Thanks in advance.

[Mincemaker]

Remember this, no rogUes enjoy being called a piece of makeup and a large number of us will make it a point to not take you seriously if you decide to call us such.

Ok, fine, here's a piece of advice for warlocks when dealing with rogues. First things first, your choice of pets is important. Succubus is big when it comes to seducing the rogue when he decides to pop out behind you and stun you. It buys your time to get out of stun and retaliate. Then there's felhunter, for you to get the first hit, because we all know a rogue who fails to get his opener off is going to have a very tough time winning. I always hate felhunters thanks to their paranoia.

However, these are not foolproof. An experienced rogue knows that a warlock who seemingly has no pet probably is having a succubus, and will usually attempt to bait your succubus by sapping you, trinket out your succubus and kill the succubus, either directly throw damage at her, or, if she is far away, sprint and do your succubus in. A preparation rogue has no qualms vanishing just to take out your succubus too.

A felhunter is tricky, but a smart rogue normally may attempt to get behind your line of sight from far away, just so you won't notice his approach right away (you can always be really really paranoid, not the skill, and keep turning around) and sprint in to throw in an opener.

The moment the rogue manage to get his cheap shot at you, you are in trouble.

Now, here is what happens when you are stunlocked. Hope that lady luck smiles at you and either he misses a sequence or he botched his sequence. A rogue has to make sure that he does a 100% stunlock, no failure tolerated, to kill you. Once that happens, fear him, and death coil and you win. Or if you are dying and happen to have a voidwalker, you may sacrifice your voidwalker first then fear then bandage.

But some rogues are actually fast enough to throw a blind the second his stun misses, mind you.

So here you go:

1. Get the first hit and you win. Felhunter helps.
2. Seduce rogue with succubus if you get sapped/cheap shot.
3. If the rogue mess up his combo, fear and death coil and throw everything you got.

[Daren]

its okay, was just getting angry because it only takes one person to point that out. Also does any one know whats the mage build to hunt rogues?

[Mincemaker]

All mage build can battle rogues. To really HUNT rogues, wear catseye googles, drink catseye elixir or make a human mage and use perception.

It is just a matter of how to battle rogues for mages. Different builds have different approaches vs mages. Here's a few things to do with rogues:

Blink vs Cheap Shot and Kidney Shot. Mind you it does not work with Gouge. However, good rogues know how to counter this, so be prepared.

If you know where is the rogue, cast level 1 Arcane Explosion to reveal them. Mind you, this can be countered if the rogue knows what he is doing and if he has a good sense of timing.

After blink, polymorph if he manages to damage you. You can then bandage and then take your time casting a long-cast high damage spell.

Frost Nova to root the rogue so you can cast safely as long as the rogue is rooted. Mind you, this is easily countered.

A mage vs rogue battle is extremely interesting because both classes have counter-tactics against each other.

[Underling]

Anyway, if you spot the rogue before he sees you, dot him,fearkite, dead rogue. If he stunlocks me, I find I'm pretty much toast (lowlevel lock though, i guess it doesnt change much at 60).

HoD

Nah, at 60, most rogues won't attempt a warlock with any serious hope of winning

[Mincemaker]

Nah, at 60, most rogues won't attempt a warlock with any serious hope of winning

On the contrary, warlocks happen to be one of my favorite targets at level 60. Other than taking a long time to kill, having the pain in the arse which are felhunters and succubuses, warlocks are actually easier to kill than mages.

And good rogues have tricks up their sleeves to counter your pet problems.

[MadVlad]

And MadVlad, maybe you want to read the entire thread instead of making smartbehind comments.
I did. His is the elitism of determining what is funny and fair for others. I thought what you wrote was hilarious. It wasn't elitist at all. Well, maybe a tad, but that was good elitism. It was being tired of people making the same *stupid* (I said it) mistake *over* and *over* again. A large majority of us here are also tired of it, and if the majority is elite, well then, so be it.

I feel it only fair to be allowed to rebut, because you went right off-topic in the exact same post you asked for others to stay on topic.

[KalziEast]

O.o Is this thread going to go back on topic... Or will it just stay this way until locked? (AKA less than a day away most likely.)

Edit: I do agree that people need to STOP spelling a class I've worked 2 years on the wrong name, considering a lot of them spell it that way just to make us angry. Meh, maybe he just couldn't spell it at that second though.

[Nitsujcm]

Excellent advice on the pets- I didn't know all of their abilities.

pally..shammy ... prst... healbot...we all work on our char just to have their names jacked up... rouges aren't special.

[Redmumba]

Its very hard to kill Warlocks, its just something you have to accept. If they have their succubus out, best way is to sap them, kill the Succu, and then kill them. Of course, don't give them a chance to get out of combat... because they are undountably mashing their "Death Coil" button. The fact is, its very difficult for a Rogue to kill an experienced PVP Warlock--even if we kill them, their curses will most likely finish us off.

How are you having any problems the OTHER way around? Rogues are fodder to most experienced Warlocks.

[Lazt]

fear the rogue FIRST put your minion on aggressive (because to my understanding minions can see rogues when the rogue is stealthed?)

and soon as you can fear him. Dont try to attack befor fearing. Once you start your DoT spells the rogue can not re-stealth. (Unless ofc your dot spells wear off or he dispells them.)

[Nitsujcm]

Once you start your DoT spells the rogue can not re-stealth. (Unless ofc your dot spells wear off or he dispells them.)

^^ not true. I have often had a dot on me and pulled off a quick vanish/cheap shot combo between ticks.

[Mincemaker]

Its very hard to kill Warlocks, its just something you have to accept. If they have their succubus out, best way is to sap them, kill the Succu, and then kill them. Of course, don't give them a chance to get out of combat... because they are undountably mashing their "Death Coil" button. The fact is, its very difficult for a Rogue to kill an experienced PVP Warlock--even if we kill them, their curses will most likely finish us off.

How are you having any problems the OTHER way around? Rogues are fodder to most experienced Warlocks.

Unless the warlock is dealing with an experienced rogue, then the deal is even out. For a rogue to deal with the warlock, they have to first get past the succubus, or try to approach the warlock quickly from right behind them before they turn around if they have a felhunter, and once you get past all that, a stunlock is all you need to take out the warlock. Never allow them a chance to as much as cast a fear.

Anyway, while you play around with other class names, they merely become something that kinds of describe them. But calling a rogue rouge means degrading them into a piece of makeup. A pally is paladin in short. A healbot is the other name for priest BUT rouge is makeup. See it now?

[binerx]

My opinion, I hope someone more experienced will correct me:

I think it's a pretty even match, considering both are skillful players. The result depends on a lot of things.

1. Depends on who spots the other one first. If the lock sees a rogue, the rogue is dead. But it is same with rogue and almost every other class, so rogues are kind of careful about it :) Another thing is if the lock knows about the rogue. He can react much faster then.

2. Depends on the build of the lock. If he is destruction, it's a piece of cake for a rogue. If he is a demonology SL build, it's really difficult to kill him without any missed shot, because he has so much life.

3. Contrary of what some of you were saying - rogue has some room for errors too. If you see your stun missed, you can always react with blind. If the lock is fast like hell, you never make a mistake if you press Will of the Forsaken just after the missed stun - it lasts 5 seconds and you can be 100% sure the lock will deathcoil or fear you in that time. With preparation build, you can make pretty much mistakes and you still have something to fix it. With any other build your can still make 1-2 mistakes even if the lock is very good. Might not be enough though :)

Conclusion:
I believe that a skillful rogue is the worst enemy for a lock, except for a full epic warrior with Sulfuras :)

[Underling]

On the contrary, warlocks happen to be one of my favorite targets at level 60. Other than taking a long time to kill, having the pain in the arse which are felhunters and succubuses, warlocks are actually easier to kill than mages.

And good rogues have tricks up their sleeves to counter your pet problems.

Yeah Mince, I've already evaluated your knowledge of rogues and warlocks, it's zero. No need to repost

[Underling]

My opinion, I hope someone more experienced will correct me:

I think it's a pretty even match, considering both are skillful players. The result depends on a lot of things.

1. Depends on who spots the other one first. If the lock sees a rogue, the rogue is dead. But it is same with rogue and almost every other class, so rogues are kind of careful about it :) Another thing is if the lock knows about the rogue. He can react much faster then.

2. Depends on the build of the lock. If he is destruction, it's a piece of cake for a rogue. If he is a demonology SL build, it's really difficult to kill him without any missed shot, because he has so much life.

3. Contrary of what some of you were saying - rogue has some room for errors too. If you see your stun missed, you can always react with blind. If the lock is fast like hell, you never make a mistake if you press Will of the Forsaken just after the missed stun - it lasts 5 seconds and you can be 100% sure the lock will deathcoil or fear you in that time. With preparation build, you can make pretty much mistakes and you still have something to fix it. With any other build your can still make 1-2 mistakes even if the lock is very good. Might not be enough though :)

Conclusion:
I believe that a skillful rogue is the worst enemy for a lock, except for a full epic warrior with Sulfuras :)

Only a well geared warrior is an issue for a warlock. Well, a well geared hunter/mage shooting from behind a rock is quite an issue too but we are talking more duel-like fights I suppose

1. Rogue will see the warlock first in most cases, however it don't matter much for warlock
2. No warlock build is piece of cake for any other class, incl rogue. Non-soullink builds hurt more but they also hurt more, if you see what I mean
3. Deathcoil'll land regardless of Will of Forsaken, DC is not considered fear :wave:

[Mincemaker]

Only a well geared warrior is an issue for a warlock. Well, a well geared hunter/mage shooting from behind a rock is quite an issue too but we are talking more duel-like fights I suppose

1. Rogue will see the warlock first in most cases, however it don't matter much for warlock
2. No warlock build is piece of cake for any other class, incl rogue. Non-soullink builds hurt more but they also hurt more, if you see what I mean
3. Deathcoil'll land regardless of Will of Forsaken, DC is not considered fear :wave:

Unfortunately, things go differently against a well-geared AND highly experienced rogue. In a duel, yes, rogues are in a disadvantage against any class, but in a BG or open PVP, warlocks are actually easy prey, especially for seasoned rogues who know their class like the back of their palms.

I have yet fail to kill a warlock the moment I start poking their eyes with my daggers. Never had, never will, even against those with succubuses (though these warlocks are best bashed with a blackjack instead).

And I believe you have never managed to actually kill anyone properly with a rogue, Underling. In fact, I doubt you even know how to counter a frost nova.

[binerx]

Unfortunately, things go differently against a well-geared AND highly experienced rogue. In a duel, yes, rogues are in a disadvantage against any class, but in a BG or open PVP, warlocks are actually easy prey, especially for seasoned rogues who know their class like the back of their palms.

I have yet fail to kill a warlock the moment I start poking their eyes with my daggers. Never had, never will, even against those with succubuses (though these warlocks are best bashed with a blackjack instead).

And I believe you have never managed to actually kill anyone properly with a rogue, Underling. In fact, I doubt you even know how to counter a frost nova.

I am not the one you asked but let me quess :)

If mage novas and blinks, you just vanish and sprint and there no way how he could escape from you, even with ice block there are still about 5 seconds before another blink which is more then enough to get to his ass.

If he just novas, then you have a problem i'd say. All you can do is blind and then you have just 2 sec to reach him but he still can blink.

Preparation is not an answer, he can cold snap and its the same story.

Seems like its a question of faster fingers and luck (and lag :) Or you've got any solution? :)

[Mincemaker]

I am not the one you asked but let me quess :)

If mage novas and blinks, you just vanish and sprint and there no way how he could escape from you, even with ice block there are still about 5 seconds before another blink which is more then enough to get to his ass.

If he just novas, then you have a problem i'd say. All you can do is blind and then you have just 2 sec to reach him but he still can blink.

Preparation is not an answer, he can cold snap and its the same story.

Seems like its a question of faster fingers and luck (and lag :) Or you've got any solution? :)

A classic counter is vanish vs blink and blind vs nova. And blind outlasts nova so if you are fast enough, you can get to the mage and gouge him after nova breaks. But if the mage actually blinks after nova, do yourself a favor, forget the blind and just vanish, so you may avoid getting polymorph. Especially after a polymorph, you are in trouble. He can just go on and cast a powerful spell and remain uninterrupted that way (those powerful spells have long cast times).

And sprint helps in getting close to mages who can't stop AOE provided you have good timing. And it isn't easy because of the small time interval between each rank 1 arcane explosion, technically why you don't want the mage to already know you are there when you battle them in open PVP and BG, and why you would like to wait for the mage to stop AOEing in a fierce mass battle in a BG.

And like you said, sprint should be used after the vanish. The mage will undoubtedly start an AOE and you would want to get to them before that happens (the time it takes for them to turn around should be enough), and this is even more important if the mage is a human and is using perception.

There are two fights I can think of that will force you to use up all your cooldowns: vs Mages and vs Hunters (if they manage to get out of the stuns, which WILL happen and manage to make some distance from you). Warlocks are nowhere close to the degree of difficulty fighting mages and hunters, since you can crush them and without having to burn all your cooldowns. Most you would usually use will be vanish (if dealing with those with succubus. Sometimes you use blind if the warlock breaks sap early when dealing with the succubus, which won't happen often) or sprint (against those who do have felhunters).

And yes, battles against mages are all about reaction.

Seems that the two of us know many things in common about rogues.

[Ashoran]

weakness of a so called "rogue" is dodging(but only when fighting warriors though) as they can be overpowered all the time, which can take an average rogue down in, ... let's say 4 seconds?

Overpower has a 10(?) second cooldown. The trick with Rogues is Deathcoil or Seduce, other than that you are screwed. Assuming you dont know they are there until you are stunned, that is. There are plenty of ways to kill a Rogue if you know he is coming.

I find that Rogues hunt in packs though, I rarely get a single Rogue anymore.

[binerx]

Overpower has a 5s cooldown actually. But it's still worthy to use dodge against a warrior. When I was Combat, I even used to use Evasion.

You can be hit every 5s with high crit rate but the warrior pays a high price for it. He can't put Hamstring or Rend on you and he has to have a battle stance on, so he can't intercept, whirlwind or disarm.

[Underling]

A classic counter is vanish vs blink and blind vs nova. And blind outlasts nova so if you are fast enough, you can get to the mage and gouge him after nova breaks. But if the mage actually blinks after nova, do yourself a favor, forget the blind and just vanish, so you may avoid getting polymorph. Especially after a polymorph, you are in trouble. He can just go on and cast a powerful spell and remain uninterrupted that way (those powerful spells have long cast times).

Your classic counter to blink is not really all that classic. More classic is a sprint after blink. Write that down Mince.

Your classic counter to nova is not really all that classic. More classic is either vanish/sprint or just improved sprint, which breaks nova. Or just a gouge. Write that down Mince.

Your whole 'classic' get-rich-fast scheme is based on the fact that all that jazz (vanish/blind) is not on cooldown. So why then you are warning us against a polymorph? Is your anti-polymorph trinket on cooldown? And that 'blind outlasting nova' bit is seriously funny.

[Wintrow]

People will define things as classic if they see it suggested often. Don't be so self-righteous Underling, it doesn't suit you :)

[Underling]

Well, I was carried away by that Mince fella. He claims to be well geared AND highly experienced, but he's enquiring about how deathcoil works on other forums, and whether a rogue's kick can silence

[Mincemaker]

Well, I was carried away by that Mince fella. He claims to be well geared AND highly experienced, but he's enquiring about how deathcoil works on other forums, and whether a rogue's kick can silence

I DID not ask that!

I know how dangerous Deathcoil is and it is usually casted after a fear, so there is no point actually trying to kick it.

Unless you quote it, I will just deny it.

There is only one more forum I visit other than this one and that is the Roguespot forums, though I once visited TheSafehouse but I no longer visit any longer for many months now.

So go on and quote whichever forum it is from. The most I had ever asked about Warlocks is if Curse of Tongues actually allow you to understand the opposite faction (and the answer is no).

And I'm warning you against Polymorph is mainly because even if you trinket it, that guy is already halfway to firing a Pyroblast or something, so it is better to actually AVOID it altogether. How many times had you found yourself blasted by a high damage spell after you break polymorph and run towards the mage, eh?

And not all specs walks with improved sprint, mind you.

And finally, do you actually start a battle against a mage while all your abilities are ON cooldown? Hmm? If you do that, you best go commit suicide because you put yourself in a major disadvantage the moment you start a fight this way.

And I'm not well-geared. I am still walking about in semi-clown and I'm still doing just fine, so shove that so-called claim down your throat.

[Binary Stylus]

I like mincemaker's reply's - I think he is knowledgable about stuff. Look at my join date - and I don't know anything much about a LOT of stuff. Thats why I read these forums.

I need to learn more about the different classes - and esspecially killing rogues. Rogues seem to be pretty good at killing everything.

You don't get Deathcoil until you get Paranoia @ LvL 42! - So TBH at lower levels I don't see the warlock having any viable strategy against Rogues other than their Succy's Seduce. But loads of Rogues are Undead - so they can just Will of Forsaken and get out of seduce and then be immune to Lock's fear for 5 seconds = Lock is dead. At this point the lock will need to just TRY TO dump as many Dots on the rogue, use health stone and try to get shadow bolts off - but actually the lock will be blinded and paralysed and just be standing there getting killed like what rogues do to every class.

X vs Rogue = X just standing paralysed getting dead after having been jumped by invisible rogue.

But then at higher levels rogues don't have quite that much edge!

[Underling]

Well, when Mince says that if a rogue is well geared AND experienced then he can defeat a warlock - yes I agree. This statement is kinda vague but logical.

However, when Mince next denies to be well geared (but claims to be very experienced, - hm, ok, for the sake of argument I'll go along) but proceeds to claim that warlocks are his fave targets - no, I think it's a false statement. And firstly, because it contradicts the preceding statement.

Or maybe he means AV warlocks that just barely managed to run away from a big fight and are sitting down for a much needed munch, to get mana and health back? Yeah, those warlocks would be my target of opportunity as a rogue also

[Mincemaker]

Well, when Mince says that if a rogue is well geared AND experienced then he can defeat a warlock - yes I agree. This statement is kinda vague but logical.

However, when Mince next denies to be well geared (but claims to be very experienced, - hm, ok, for the sake of argument I'll go along) but proceeds to claim that warlocks are his fave targets - no, I think it's a false statement. And firstly, because it contradicts the preceding statement.

Or maybe he means AV warlocks that just barely managed to run away from a big fight and are sitting down for a much needed munch, to get mana and health back? Yeah, those warlocks would be my target of opportunity as a rogue also

Perhaps I should tell you what is called a 'clown-gear'. Basically gear that is better than Shadowcraft but no where close to a Nightslayer in quality. I happened to be decked in half clown-gear, which at the very least, is giving me a decent enough of stamina, attack power and critical to venture a trip into the thick of an AV battle, take down a caster, and get the hell out of that battle and back into a safe cover. Let me remind you, the chaos of battle IS in itself an opportunity. And THAT is the opportunity I'm talking about.

So that is how I can manage to take down casters, warlocks included and get away, one at a time. Go in, kill one, get the hell out, reassess situation, after going back into stealth, go back in, take one more out. It doesn't always work, but it does work in my favor, helping me to survive. Battles that are like two walls hitting into each other are not chaotic enough, so when that happens, I usually be a 'lil more opportunistic and take down dying targets only. However, battles where everybody is fighting, and there is no clear line, that is my favourite situation to strike because that's when most targets don't really pay attention to anything but the one they are currently attacking. And there's alot to attack.

However, when I mentioned that warlocks are my favourite targets, I really mean it. In open PVP, whenever I see a warlock, level 60 or not, weakened or not, full health or not, Felhunter or whatever, I will go and take them down. That is because they ARE easy targets. Yes, felhunters can see me. Yes, succubus can seduce, but if you know how to deal with all that and lock the warlock down soon after you deal with the threats each respective pets may pose, you are guranteed to win, provided you don't mess up and you have a plan B in case you do mess up your stunlock (all my recent losts with warlocks is because I don't have a plan B. Yet another lesson to learn). And they have almost zero defense against stunlock, and the only way they can actually survive is to have over the top HP, which, while their HP is greater than most spellcaster, is nowhere close to the amount of HP a warrior has. And it ain't everyday you see a tier 2 warlock in open PVP or in a BG.

And in BG, these warlocks are FAR easier in that you can put the pet problem out of the equation. The reason is because there is a large chance that they, and their pet, is already attacking something else. That lack of attention is all I need to kill them.

And finally, gear is not equal to experience. I have the impression that you seem to think gear = experience. I hate to break this to you, but the amount of experience one has is determined by how many times he finds himself in a PVP situation and how many times he has died, did a bit of revision on what the heck he had done wrong, and correct it, and then win the next battle. I had died quite a large number of times, did alot of thinking on what the heck I did wrong and tried various different approaches, those I think of myself or those recommended by someone else who are more experienced than I am.

The reason why I'm still decked in blues is because I spend my weekends farming and doing BGs, and the occasional stalking of Alliance rather than actually raiding. And spending a full Sunday on a BG is nowhere close to enough to gain reputation fast enough with even AV to get the epics. And I don't do enough AV. I even go to other BGs. (Hopefully though, I can get exalted with AV this weekend so I can get my Don Julio's and Lobotomizer)

And seeing that I had picked on warlocks alot of times, in fact more than other classes, I know quite a number of their tricks, and yes, that is the very first step to achieve victory against such adversaries, since you need to know what threat they pose before you can learn to counter them. Like Sun Tzu said: "Know your enemies, know yourself; a hundred battles, a hundred victories".

[lula]

Perhaps I should tell you what is called a 'clown-gear'. Basically gear that is better than Shadowcraft but no where close to a Nightslayer in quality. I happened to be decked in half clown-gear, which at the very least, is giving me a decent enough of stamina, attack power and critical to venture a trip into the thick of an AV battle, take down a caster, and get the hell out of that battle and back into a safe cover. Let me remind you, the chaos of battle IS in itself an opportunity. And THAT is the opportunity I'm talking about.

So that is how I can manage to take down casters, warlocks included and get away, one at a time. Go in, kill one, get the hell out, reassess situation, after going back into stealth, go back in, take one more out. It doesn't always work, but it does work in my favor, helping me to survive. Battles that are like two walls hitting into each other are not chaotic enough, so when that happens, I usually be a 'lil more opportunistic and take down dying targets only. However, battles where everybody is fighting, and there is no clear line, that is my favourite situation to strike because that's when most targets don't really pay attention to anything but the one they are currently attacking. And there's alot to attack.

However, when I mentioned that warlocks are my favourite targets, I really mean it. In open PVP, whenever I see a warlock, level 60 or not, weakened or not, full health or not, Felhunter or whatever, I will go and take them down. That is because they ARE easy targets. Yes, felhunters can see me. Yes, succubus can seduce, but if you know how to deal with all that and lock the warlock down soon after you deal with the threats each respective pets may pose, you are guranteed to win, provided you don't mess up and you have a plan B in case you do mess up your stunlock (all my recent losts with warlocks is because I don't have a plan B. Yet another lesson to learn). And they have almost zero defense against stunlock, and the only way they can actually survive is to have over the top HP, which, while their HP is greater than most spellcaster, is nowhere close to the amount of HP a warrior has. And it ain't everyday you see a tier 2 warlock in open PVP or in a BG.

And in BG, these warlocks are FAR easier in that you can put the pet problem out of the equation. The reason is because there is a large chance that they, and their pet, is already attacking something else. That lack of attention is all I need to kill them.

And finally, gear is not equal to experience. I have the impression that you seem to think gear = experience. I hate to break this to you, but the amount of experience one has is determined by how many times he finds himself in a PVP situation and how many times he has died, did a bit of revision on what the heck he had done wrong, and correct it, and then win the next battle. I had died quite a large number of times, did alot of thinking on what the heck I did wrong and tried various different approaches, those I think of myself or those recommended by someone else who are more experienced than I am.

The reason why I'm still decked in blues is because I spend my weekends farming and doing BGs, and the occasional stalking of Alliance rather than actually raiding. And spending a full Sunday on a BG is nowhere close to enough to gain reputation fast enough with even AV to get the epics. And I don't do enough AV. I even go to other BGs. (Hopefully though, I can get exalted with AV this weekend so I can get my Don Julio's and Lobotomizer)

And seeing that I had picked on warlocks alot of times, in fact more than other classes, I know quite a number of their tricks, and yes, that is the very first step to achieve victory against such adversaries, since you need to know what threat they pose before you can learn to counter them. Like Sun Tzu said: "Know your enemies, know yourself; a hundred battles, a hundred victories".

sorry
but a lock have the most powerfull thing against a stunlock
when a rogue starts the stunlock, just hit seduce and thats it.
a mage will polly u 2 times, when he finishes the first he will just start another polly u will trinket the first and will be pollyed again
ur fighint very bad players
a lock that will hit seduce after a sap is just stupid as a mag that blinks a charge
maybe the reason u are killing warlocks is cuz u are a undead
and not cuz u are a rogue

[Dutchgrass]

You're assuming a Warlock will always have Succubus ready. That's not the case.
Good Rogues who are not vastly outgeared by the Warlock can beat them perfectly fine by baiting a Seduce, trinket out, and killing the Succubus while the Warlock is incapacitated (Sap/Blind). Then stunlock from 100-0.
Warlocks are far from unbeatable for Rogues.

[Ryste]

You're assuming a Warlock will always have Succubus ready. That's not the case.
Good Rogues who are not vastly outgeared by the Warlock can beat them perfectly fine by baiting a Seduce, trinket out, and killing the Succubus while the Warlock is incapacitated (Sap/Blind). Then stunlock from 100-0.
Warlocks are far from unbeatable for Rogues.

not rogues, only Undead rogues. Because undead rogues have 2 ways to break out of seduce instead of 1, and 5 second immunity to seduce instead of none.

Good warlocks don't have auto seduce turn on, only idiots would seduce on sap/blind.

[Binary Stylus]

I'm gonna sound as n00b as i am. Why don't you Seduce after sap/blind - why only do that in a full stunlock?

Sorry :)

[Ryste]

I'm gonna sound as n00b as i am. Why don't you Seduce after sap/blind - why only do that in a full stunlock?

Sorry :)

Because sap or blind breaks on damage, stun doesn't.

rogues can break out of seduce at least once, blind lasts 8 seconds, sap lasts far more than that, it takes 8 seconds or less for a rogue to kill your succubus, while you can't do anything to help.

[lula]

You're assuming a Warlock will always have Succubus ready. That's not the case.
Good Rogues who are not vastly outgeared by the Warlock can beat them perfectly fine by baiting a Seduce, trinket out, and killing the Succubus while the Warlock is incapacitated (Sap/Blind). Then stunlock from 100-0.
Warlocks are far from unbeatable for Rogues.

in a pvp if he dont have a succubus he have a felhunter and will se u before u do anything, if he is demo he can summon a succy in 0,5 seconds
as i said if u are fighint locks that use seduce in a sap
u should start looking for ppl that know what they are doing
i didind say that locks are unbeatable but they are far from a easy kill to a rogue
and seduce is the better thing in the game agaisnt a stunlock there is no way to a rogue stunlock a warlock if he have a succubus out
i never been stunlocked from 100-0 in this game

[Mincemaker]

in a pvp if he dont have a succubus he have a felhunter and will se u before u do anything, if he is demo he can summon a succy in 0,5 seconds
as i said if u are fighint locks that use seduce in a sap
u should start looking for ppl that know what they are doing
i didind say that locks are unbeatable but they are far from a easy kill to a rogue
and seduce is the better thing in the game agaisnt a stunlock there is no way to a rogue stunlock a warlock if he have a succubus out
i never been stunlocked from 100-0 in this game


If he has a felhunter, and I was sprinting in stealth right in his face, he will only have a half second to notice me.

By then, it is Cheap Shot and getting his health burned down to zero before he can even react. The stealth sound that appears so sudden and then a cheap shot a half second later does not afford the warlock a chance to as much as hit a fear button.

And if I'm hitting him right from the back, he won't even have a second warning even with a felhunter around.

And we can break your seduce easily with our PVP trinket, or as an undead rogue, double break with WoTF, so there goes your succubus. If I'm in the middle of a stunlock while your succubus seduce me, I break it, throw a blind at the warlock, do your succubus in, then proceed to continue my stunlock.

@Ryste: Unless the succubus is far away, a single break is usually enough to take that succubus down.

[lula]

If he has a felhunter, and I was sprinting in stealth right in his face, he will only have a half second to notice me.

By then, it is Cheap Shot and getting his health burned down to zero before he can even react. The stealth sound that appears so sudden and then a cheap shot a half second later does not afford the warlock a chance to as much as hit a fear button.

And if I'm hitting him right from the back, he won't even have a second warning even with a felhunter around.

And we can break your seduce easily with our PVP trinket, or as an undead rogue, double break with WoTF, so there goes your succubus. If I'm in the middle of a stunlock while your succubus seduce me, I break it, throw a blind at the warlock, do your succubus in, then proceed to continue my stunlock.

@Ryste: Unless the succubus is far away, a single break is usually enough to take that succubus down.
heh
u sayng to me that u can break the seduce blind the lock kill the succy and go back to stunlock before the lock hit the INSTANT CAST deathcoil?
i dont think so.

[Mincemaker]

heh
u sayng to me that u can break the seduce blind the lock kill the succy and go back to stunlock before the lock hit the INSTANT CAST deathcoil?
i dont think so.

It will happen once I successfully killed your succubus and you are still a second away from breaking from blind. And that will happen since succubuses are very squishie and even a half-clown wearer can kill her in a couple of well-placed backstabs and a bunch of sinister strikes. Killing a succubus is like killing a mage minus the blink and the frost nova.

Then I can just then proceed to gouge you from there. No Death Coil for you.

[Underling]

a half second *
before he can even react * sudden *warlock a chance to as much as hit a fear button

* he won't even have a second * easily * my stunlock

Mince, I don't know why you are trying to sound well geared AND experienced tbh. We are not talking theory here either

Have you even ever stunlocked anybody in WoW? When I played my warlock, no rogue ever killed me if I was in full health to start with. Now that is not to say no rogue could kill me. But it is a perfect indication of how hard it is for a rogue to kill a lock

[Mincemaker]

I did stunlock Warlocks. There's once in Alterac Valley, right behind the enemies' back, I stunlocked and ripped a warlock's heads off, and he was in tier 1 with full health. What he was doing was throwing spells from the back.

And there's another time in open PVP I slaughtered a level 60 warlock of the same gear level as mine, as in, mostly blues. With a felhunter. A back approach is something not even a felhunter can detect. You CAN'T see what's behind you even if you have a felhunter.

When is the last time you met a proper rogue? There are many rogues I know out there who doesn't even THINK like one. All the ninja nonsense and stuff.

And did I already said that I am in half-clown gear?

Listen, if you have died enough from warlocks and see enough of their tricks, you can pretty much tell what a warlock will typically be trying to do, and how to deal with it. Once you know enough and know how to deal with all these tricks, a warlock becomes easy prey. And from all my fights inside and outside a BG, the moment you land a cheap shot on a warlock, the fight is pretty much over for him.

Finally, I'm not trying to sound experienced. There are many far more experienced rogues out there who can deal with warriors, something I have yet to accomplish. And I'm not going to tell you what they suggested. What I typed here are every single thing I had seen being used on myself and what I used to counter. Every thing that I had stated had been used on several warlocks, so I conclude these methods were rather effective.

[Loopy]

I am a rank 10 Warlock with just PvP items (AB/WSG/AV/Rank Rewards) and I can honestly say that in all my PvP time I may have been 'stunlocked' to death by a rogue from full health perhaps 3 or 4 times.

Mincemaker: Either you are very well geared (Tier 2+ as the ones who took me down were) and very good at keeping a stunlock on OR the 'locks you faced were completely inept.

[Mincemaker]

I am a rank 10 Warlock with just PvP items (AB/WSG/AV/Rank Rewards) and I can honestly say that in all my PvP time I may have been 'stunlocked' to death by a rogue from full health perhaps 3 or 4 times.

Mincemaker: Either you are very well geared (Tier 2+ as the ones who took me down were) and very good at keeping a stunlock on OR the 'locks you faced were completely inept.

Let me be honest, the most well geared warlock I had ever taken down were wearing partial tier 1s. Not exactly a warlock of your calibre. I never successfully taken down a tier 2 warlock because the time it takes for me to take one down in a BG is enough for others to notice my presence and take me out.

What can you expect from a rogue who is dressed in mostly blue gear?

Though I have almost never break my stunlocks on a warlock. For a Seal Fate, it is always a mistake to forget about SS (Shiv in the expansion, I suppose), causing a major energy deficiency after the first half of a complete chain. That means no energy for a KS+BS+Gouge on the second half. Gotten myself killed a number of times for using a CS-BS rather than a CS-SS.