Tiddly
22-11-2006, 12:06 PM
Hi all
My guild went to BWL for the first time last night, we wiped quite a few times on razergore and tried a few different tactics.. I know a lot of you guys have been farming BWL for a long time but we have been slowly working our way to a raiding guild and have finally got to downing raggy a few times.
Below is a write up by one of our hunters who has analised what happened.
Can anyone help with what went wrong or tactics you have used to easily down him in the past.
thanks
This is how I saw our BWL raid this evening:
Me: Iil, Hunter, Dps, Kiter
BWL
At the start of tonights raid we were not quite a full group, about 35 people dared show up from the start. As time went on we finally did manage to get a full raid. The first part of any boss is a thorough breifing of the tactics and for Razorgore that is perhaps even more true. Since it was our first serious attempts some trial and error in tactics are to be expected. Perhaps even the tactics were cut a bit short due to some impatience among the raid. there was no real time for any question about the tactics and our first attempt reflected this.
The plan was to rush the controller and down him and his 2 adds. But we found out quickly that a druid in bearform cannot use the orb, so Razorgore came down on us like a ton of building blocks. and we wiped almost before the adds started coming.
Progress: less than 5 eggs down. (out of 30)
Lessons learned?
1. druid in bearform can not use orb.
2. Someone needs to control Raz, we need to be more focused right from start of raid.
Try 2.
A bit embarrased about that miserable first attempt we took another briefing of the tactics and polished it a bit. MT would take control of the orb and MC Raz, while the rest of us dealt with the controller and his adds. Warriors would be kiting and 2 groups where sent to each of teh 4 corners of the room. This attempt was alot better than the first but fell apart quite fast once the adds started pouring in. The crowd control was simply not near good enough, druids werent sleeping, mages werent sheepin, locks werent fearing and rogues werent dealing with the mages fast enough. Also many tanks were tanking legioneres wich makes it hard for the kiters to gain aggro when they pass. The kiters did their best but died quite fast wich resulted in a rather quick wipe for the rest of us.
Progress: just under 10 eggs down. (Out of 30)
Lessons learned?
1. Crowdcontrol is key to this encounter. Everyone in the raid has a task connected to dealing with the throng of adds that pour in and we, as a group, need to improve vastly in this area if we are to succeed. Mages sheep legioneers, druids sleep dragonkin, Locks single mob fear Legioneers that are attacking healers/raidmembers, Pallys keep the kiters alive, priests keep rest of raid alive use fear if attacked and toss a shield on the kiters when available, Warriors protect healers, help dps mage adds, Rogues stunlock & dps mage adds, and Hunters either kite or help dps Mages depending on tactic. If you have your part controlled you help dps any mage adds near you.
2. Crowdcontrol is KEY to this encounter! See lesson number 1 again.
3. Kiters must be kept alive. If kiters drop the raid will have a rough time dealing with all the freed up adds. It is imperative that the pallys make shure the kiters are alive. Priests can help with this by tossing on a shield everyonce in awhile if there is an oportunity to do so.
Try 3.
Now that we were getting into the swing of things we tried once again using the same tactics as last time. and this try went a little better. The crowdcontrol was marginally better and we managed to get down about half the eggs before finally succumbing to the throng of adds that were running loose after the kiters had died. But still there were too many mageadds running free causing mayhem with their aoe spells and fireballs.
progress:14 eggs down (Out of 30)
Lessons learned?
1. I need to stress this again, Crowdcontrol is key to this. This attempt the crowdcontrol was better than earlier but still not good enough to get us even halfway thru phase one. But if you see it as our second attempt ever to do it, its was quite ok. Room for improvement though.
2. Hunters can, if they arent kiting, FD and drop a frost trap to slow down the adds beeing kited.
3. Kiters are dropping far to easily, they need to be healed alot better.
Try 4.
This time we decided to let the hunters try to kite the adds as the warriors were dropping to fast. Personally I think that was more a cause of lack of healing than lack of skill or ability. Hunters are not faster than warriors without cheetah aspect and warriors have better armor and aggro gaining abilities than hunters. This time everything seemed to go alot smoother than the previous attempts, the crowdcontrol was working overtime and the hunters were kiting like demons, except for me for some reason I had trouble finding suitable targets on this attempt. Which on this attempt made me stay in one corner helping dps mageadds. That was a mistake on my part as I should just have run in an 8 around the room picking up adds where ever I could find them. Finally one of the hunters died releasing a bunch of adds wich cut the raid down.
Progress:16 eggs down (out of 30)
Lessons learned?
1. Crowdcontrol was a lot better that time but in the end the controllerplatform was overrun wich should be avoided at all costs.
2. I made a major mistake on this attempt. I should have been alot more active in seeking out kiting targets.
3. Kiters are still dropping to fast, need better healing and protection overall.
Try 5.
This was the second try for the hunters to kite and as I had learned an important lesson from our first attempt I was eager to try it out. We downed the controller and his adds very smoothly and I started to run. I picked up add after add and I kept running. I lost count of how many sheeps and sleeping dragonkin I picked up along the way but I just kept running and pulling sheep and sleeping kin. This try went on for what seemed an eternity and when I finally died I must have released 10-15 mobs on the raid after that it was just a matter of time before the raid succumbed to them.
Progress: 23 eggs down (out of 30) Our best attempt for the day.
Lessons learned?
1. Well, same as on our previous attempts. The kiters are not getting enough heals to stay alive long enough and the crowdcontrol can improve some. Altho it was ALOT better on this attempt and Im not shure how much better the crowdcontrol it can actually get.
Try 6.
Now we were getting the hang of this and I was eager to give the kiting another go. but this attempt started badly as the killing of the controller and his adds went badly and we started getting in multiple adds long before we were ready for them. Off I went nonethe less, I had a slightly more difficult time finding targets this time and I cant say for shure if it was because of less CC or just an unfortunate routechioce on my part. But after awhile I had a decent size train after me. I noticed a problem for me though. I kept meeting adds on my way back that had aggro on me, perhaps that means I was running to fast and need to let them catch up a bit. But I dare not stop running. This means that the train can get rather spread out and kiters will run into problems after awhile putting more strain on the healers to keep us alive. After awhile i died, but got a battle res quite fast and could start gathering up mobs again but by that time my loose mobs had created so much mayhem that the raid was doomed to die.
Progress: aprox 13 eggs down (out of 30)
Lessons learned?
1. Same as earlier, the kiters need to be kept on their feet, if one dies and looses his train the kiter will have a very difficult time to regain aggro.
2. We are simply beeing overrun by the sheer number of adds, we simply cant handle them this way unless we are more or less perfect in our execution. We need to find a way to buy us the extra minute we need to destroy the last 10 eggs or so.
Suggestions:
1. Razorgore has a powerful aoe attack that can be used on all mobs in the room. If we place a kiter as controller initially he can at some point aggro the whole room, by first aoe'ing the platform side of the room and then the opposite side to get aggro of the lionshare of the mobs in the room. If the Kiter-controller at that point releases control of the orb and starts kiting, all the mobs on razorgore should turn their attention to the Kiter who starts to kite them around the room. At this point the MT should grab control of the orb to be ready for Razor when the last egg is destroyed. IMPORTANT: The kiter needs to release control of the orb in good time before Razorgore gets killed by all the mobs attacking him.
2. Fireprotection pots are useful for any class dealing with the mage adds since much of their damage is from fire based spells.
3. Hunters can FD and lay slowing traps unless they are kiting, wich makes a point to preferring tanks to kite.
4. Speed enchants on boots is useful for anyone kiting. Also swiftness potions are helpful for kiters.
5. Practice makes perfect. If we keep at it Razor will go down if not next week then the week after that. Read up on tactics and suggestions and come prepared.
6. Anything that gives you extra Hps/mana is helpful. Such as some food types, HP/mana Pots, bandages and anything else you can think of to help you heal/regain mana during this fight.
7. High dps is not the key to this encounter. Endurance and teamwork is. Lasting power takes priority over dps.
8. Since the Razorgore tactic I posted was by and large not used, could someone find/Copy paste or write a proper tactic for this encounter?
These are some of my observations for this evenings raid. The most obvious holes in it are the healers perspective, and the controllers perspective. Juana, as our most experienced controller may feel like he could add some insights as to how the control actually works, cooldowns, abilities how long it takes to destroy eggs etc. Anything he thinks may be useful. Like I've said, this post is entirely my own observations and I have by no means included everything, just my own impressions. I may be wrong in parts, if so the error is mine.
Feel free to point out anything that should be added or amended.
My guild went to BWL for the first time last night, we wiped quite a few times on razergore and tried a few different tactics.. I know a lot of you guys have been farming BWL for a long time but we have been slowly working our way to a raiding guild and have finally got to downing raggy a few times.
Below is a write up by one of our hunters who has analised what happened.
Can anyone help with what went wrong or tactics you have used to easily down him in the past.
thanks
This is how I saw our BWL raid this evening:
Me: Iil, Hunter, Dps, Kiter
BWL
At the start of tonights raid we were not quite a full group, about 35 people dared show up from the start. As time went on we finally did manage to get a full raid. The first part of any boss is a thorough breifing of the tactics and for Razorgore that is perhaps even more true. Since it was our first serious attempts some trial and error in tactics are to be expected. Perhaps even the tactics were cut a bit short due to some impatience among the raid. there was no real time for any question about the tactics and our first attempt reflected this.
The plan was to rush the controller and down him and his 2 adds. But we found out quickly that a druid in bearform cannot use the orb, so Razorgore came down on us like a ton of building blocks. and we wiped almost before the adds started coming.
Progress: less than 5 eggs down. (out of 30)
Lessons learned?
1. druid in bearform can not use orb.
2. Someone needs to control Raz, we need to be more focused right from start of raid.
Try 2.
A bit embarrased about that miserable first attempt we took another briefing of the tactics and polished it a bit. MT would take control of the orb and MC Raz, while the rest of us dealt with the controller and his adds. Warriors would be kiting and 2 groups where sent to each of teh 4 corners of the room. This attempt was alot better than the first but fell apart quite fast once the adds started pouring in. The crowd control was simply not near good enough, druids werent sleeping, mages werent sheepin, locks werent fearing and rogues werent dealing with the mages fast enough. Also many tanks were tanking legioneres wich makes it hard for the kiters to gain aggro when they pass. The kiters did their best but died quite fast wich resulted in a rather quick wipe for the rest of us.
Progress: just under 10 eggs down. (Out of 30)
Lessons learned?
1. Crowdcontrol is key to this encounter. Everyone in the raid has a task connected to dealing with the throng of adds that pour in and we, as a group, need to improve vastly in this area if we are to succeed. Mages sheep legioneers, druids sleep dragonkin, Locks single mob fear Legioneers that are attacking healers/raidmembers, Pallys keep the kiters alive, priests keep rest of raid alive use fear if attacked and toss a shield on the kiters when available, Warriors protect healers, help dps mage adds, Rogues stunlock & dps mage adds, and Hunters either kite or help dps Mages depending on tactic. If you have your part controlled you help dps any mage adds near you.
2. Crowdcontrol is KEY to this encounter! See lesson number 1 again.
3. Kiters must be kept alive. If kiters drop the raid will have a rough time dealing with all the freed up adds. It is imperative that the pallys make shure the kiters are alive. Priests can help with this by tossing on a shield everyonce in awhile if there is an oportunity to do so.
Try 3.
Now that we were getting into the swing of things we tried once again using the same tactics as last time. and this try went a little better. The crowdcontrol was marginally better and we managed to get down about half the eggs before finally succumbing to the throng of adds that were running loose after the kiters had died. But still there were too many mageadds running free causing mayhem with their aoe spells and fireballs.
progress:14 eggs down (Out of 30)
Lessons learned?
1. I need to stress this again, Crowdcontrol is key to this. This attempt the crowdcontrol was better than earlier but still not good enough to get us even halfway thru phase one. But if you see it as our second attempt ever to do it, its was quite ok. Room for improvement though.
2. Hunters can, if they arent kiting, FD and drop a frost trap to slow down the adds beeing kited.
3. Kiters are dropping far to easily, they need to be healed alot better.
Try 4.
This time we decided to let the hunters try to kite the adds as the warriors were dropping to fast. Personally I think that was more a cause of lack of healing than lack of skill or ability. Hunters are not faster than warriors without cheetah aspect and warriors have better armor and aggro gaining abilities than hunters. This time everything seemed to go alot smoother than the previous attempts, the crowdcontrol was working overtime and the hunters were kiting like demons, except for me for some reason I had trouble finding suitable targets on this attempt. Which on this attempt made me stay in one corner helping dps mageadds. That was a mistake on my part as I should just have run in an 8 around the room picking up adds where ever I could find them. Finally one of the hunters died releasing a bunch of adds wich cut the raid down.
Progress:16 eggs down (out of 30)
Lessons learned?
1. Crowdcontrol was a lot better that time but in the end the controllerplatform was overrun wich should be avoided at all costs.
2. I made a major mistake on this attempt. I should have been alot more active in seeking out kiting targets.
3. Kiters are still dropping to fast, need better healing and protection overall.
Try 5.
This was the second try for the hunters to kite and as I had learned an important lesson from our first attempt I was eager to try it out. We downed the controller and his adds very smoothly and I started to run. I picked up add after add and I kept running. I lost count of how many sheeps and sleeping dragonkin I picked up along the way but I just kept running and pulling sheep and sleeping kin. This try went on for what seemed an eternity and when I finally died I must have released 10-15 mobs on the raid after that it was just a matter of time before the raid succumbed to them.
Progress: 23 eggs down (out of 30) Our best attempt for the day.
Lessons learned?
1. Well, same as on our previous attempts. The kiters are not getting enough heals to stay alive long enough and the crowdcontrol can improve some. Altho it was ALOT better on this attempt and Im not shure how much better the crowdcontrol it can actually get.
Try 6.
Now we were getting the hang of this and I was eager to give the kiting another go. but this attempt started badly as the killing of the controller and his adds went badly and we started getting in multiple adds long before we were ready for them. Off I went nonethe less, I had a slightly more difficult time finding targets this time and I cant say for shure if it was because of less CC or just an unfortunate routechioce on my part. But after awhile I had a decent size train after me. I noticed a problem for me though. I kept meeting adds on my way back that had aggro on me, perhaps that means I was running to fast and need to let them catch up a bit. But I dare not stop running. This means that the train can get rather spread out and kiters will run into problems after awhile putting more strain on the healers to keep us alive. After awhile i died, but got a battle res quite fast and could start gathering up mobs again but by that time my loose mobs had created so much mayhem that the raid was doomed to die.
Progress: aprox 13 eggs down (out of 30)
Lessons learned?
1. Same as earlier, the kiters need to be kept on their feet, if one dies and looses his train the kiter will have a very difficult time to regain aggro.
2. We are simply beeing overrun by the sheer number of adds, we simply cant handle them this way unless we are more or less perfect in our execution. We need to find a way to buy us the extra minute we need to destroy the last 10 eggs or so.
Suggestions:
1. Razorgore has a powerful aoe attack that can be used on all mobs in the room. If we place a kiter as controller initially he can at some point aggro the whole room, by first aoe'ing the platform side of the room and then the opposite side to get aggro of the lionshare of the mobs in the room. If the Kiter-controller at that point releases control of the orb and starts kiting, all the mobs on razorgore should turn their attention to the Kiter who starts to kite them around the room. At this point the MT should grab control of the orb to be ready for Razor when the last egg is destroyed. IMPORTANT: The kiter needs to release control of the orb in good time before Razorgore gets killed by all the mobs attacking him.
2. Fireprotection pots are useful for any class dealing with the mage adds since much of their damage is from fire based spells.
3. Hunters can FD and lay slowing traps unless they are kiting, wich makes a point to preferring tanks to kite.
4. Speed enchants on boots is useful for anyone kiting. Also swiftness potions are helpful for kiters.
5. Practice makes perfect. If we keep at it Razor will go down if not next week then the week after that. Read up on tactics and suggestions and come prepared.
6. Anything that gives you extra Hps/mana is helpful. Such as some food types, HP/mana Pots, bandages and anything else you can think of to help you heal/regain mana during this fight.
7. High dps is not the key to this encounter. Endurance and teamwork is. Lasting power takes priority over dps.
8. Since the Razorgore tactic I posted was by and large not used, could someone find/Copy paste or write a proper tactic for this encounter?
These are some of my observations for this evenings raid. The most obvious holes in it are the healers perspective, and the controllers perspective. Juana, as our most experienced controller may feel like he could add some insights as to how the control actually works, cooldowns, abilities how long it takes to destroy eggs etc. Anything he thinks may be useful. Like I've said, this post is entirely my own observations and I have by no means included everything, just my own impressions. I may be wrong in parts, if so the error is mine.
Feel free to point out anything that should be added or amended.