reduced honor

[holycheese]

A guidly told me blizz is reducing the honor gain from bg's after todays downtime apparently...


so no more easy honor grind and easy epics no idea if its true but came from a knowledgable player.


anyone confirm it ??

[Kaiylen]

Yup, they reduced it 30%, so now you'll only be gaining honor at 70% the rate you were before. Still not too difficult, it was crazy easy before.

[Leonavice]

Shrug, given a full day of pvp, a new 60 in greens can still get his 1 Tier 1 PVP piece per day, compared to asking him to run 5 man repeatedly for his Tier 0. I think you can see which one is easier.

Look at the Tier 1 PVP rare set, say Hunter. 2 pieces give you +20 AGI. Which one of the tier 0 set can give you such a bonus? None.

[edandor]

yea, it will take you roughly 43% longer now to get whatever you were going for

[Tanitha]

Refer to this thread (http://forums.worldofwar.net/showthread.php?t=382465).

[holycheese]

thanks for the quick responses.. after I have a few pieces of hw stuff for my shaman ( in preparation for tbc dw build)

I intend to kit out my alt with rank 10 gear, glad to know it wont take too long...


t0 set is rubbish for a priest ...


it does seem a shame all those instances ubrs lbrs scholo strat are pointless now:( what a waste of the developers time)

[Zaratustra]

i read about it yesterday. well, the forums expoded with threads against the change. as always, bliz makes the life of a not hardcore player harder. :(((

[Dutchgrass]

Good change. Before this, people were grabbing as much as 1 item per day, which is a bit too easy.

[Falgorn]

I managed to get 10k honour in one day and I took a lot of gaps (was very hungover). If I had been hard at it and used every minute I have no doubt I could have done 22k and gotten any of the 22k value items. It's still a day, but you spend intitially a lot longer than that in BWL / AQ40 to get items of that caliber.

Again I played about 5 hours last night and got over 4k today. That also included an Ony run (phase 2 is harder now..)

It's probably not a bad thing that they did this, because all the people whining would be whining even more when everywhere they looked people were in the top epic pvp gear...!

[deamian]

It's probably not a bad thing that they did this, because all the people whining would be whining even more when everywhere they looked people were in the top epic pvp gear...!

Right!, and whining about what other people have is still as pathetic as it was in kindergarten.

[mesonm]

It is more than a 30% nerf...

It WAS 28 rep in AB for each 200 pts your team rec'd...and is NOW 20 rep each 330 pts...

you do the math.

[deamian]

I was getting 1 and 2 honor a kill.. if my wife weren't there with me i'd have ended the bg and gave up.. But we're still trying to get her a better bow since the other faction.. no matter what side ruins the Rhok'delar quest for anyone. Hoping the frustration passes.

[deamian]

Good change. Before this, people were grabbing as much as 1 item per day, which is a bit too easy.


And about the 5th time I've pointed this out.. the people who grabbed 1 item a day.. played 15 hours a day or MORE.. It still doesn't make sense to punish the casuals. It would have been 3-4 weeks now it's more like 6-7 .. I have a job.. I have a life out side of WoW ..done.

[Ryste]

And about the 5th time I've pointed this out.. the people who grabbed 1 item a day.. played 15 hours a day or MORE.. It still doesn't make sense to punish the casuals. It would have been 3-4 weeks now it's more like 6-7 .. I have a job.. I have a life out side of WoW ..done.

So it'll take you 3-4 weeks before to get a rank 14 item, now it's going to take 6-7 weeks.

Either way, BC will be out by then and you can have item just as good or better than rank 14. If you have a life outside of WoW, why do you get soo work up?

[deamian]

So it'll take you 3-4 weeks before to get a rank 14 item, now it's going to take 6-7 weeks.

Either way, BC will be out by then and you can have item just as good or better than rank 14. If you have a life outside of WoW, why do you get soo work up?

And I've posted this about 10 times.. do a bit of research before you post that day 1 you'll get better than GM items.. 1h axe for example 59.9dps and 214 or so max damage.. = lvl 67 in burning crusade... you go ahead and wait for that.

And yes I'm annoyed recently.. I do pay for this service and went through it all before in Everquest.. was hoping with Tigole behind part of WoW it would be different. It's looking to be a repeat to be honest.

How are people defending the change that they looked at for 1 week and made a judgement call on. Due to power gamers getting a few items. It won't stop them.. it deters the casual players.

[Ryste]

And I've posted this about 10 times.. do a bit of research before you post that day 1 you'll get better than GM items.. 1h axe for example 59.9dps and 214 or so max damage.. = lvl 67 in burning crusade... you go ahead and wait for that.

And yes I'm annoyed recently.. I do pay for this service and went through it all before in Everquest.. was hoping with Tigole behind part of WoW it would be different. It's looking to be a repeat to be honest.

How are people defending the change that they looked at for 1 week and made a judgement call on. Due to power gamers getting a few items. It won't stop them.. it deters the casual players.

Wait for what? Blue items are always above their level just like puple items.

A blue axe in BC from level 60 quest reward can be item level of 65 for all we know. I am sure it'll take alot less time to do the quest than getting the GM 1 handed axe.

It slows down casual players as it should be. There's no progression to get GM items, you can go from level 30 greens to GM, you can't do that in raiding. To get something better than T2 item (as in the case of GM items), you have to get some pieces of T1, you have to progress with your guild, unless you are riding the coat tails of others.

To get PvP reward you don't need help from anyone.

[deamian]

I didn't know you can solo the battlegrounds.. don't need help? and It's not "for all we know" about the burning crusade items.. you can look them up you know.. as I took the time to do.

You can't argue with an elitist attitude so I'm finished trying.. those who think Raiding should be the only rewarding feature in the game have their mind set and I'm learning quickly how they think. It was the same in Everquest where you had Top guild a) with ALL the hardcores since there weren't warring sides, they didn't have to split them up. Racing to all the high end content and downing it.. week after week. And you'd be lucky to have a shot. I guess people want World of Warcraft to move in that direction.

Enjoy if it does :rolleyes:

[Tanitha]

i read about it yesterday. well, the forums expoded with threads against the change. as always, bliz makes the life of a not hardcore player harder. :(((

I'm curious though. We have the following scenario.

(a) Prior to patch 2.0.1 it is nigh on impossible for a casual player to gain these rewards
(b) Immediately after patch 2.0.1 it is ludicrously easy for a casual player to gain these rewards - unbalancingly so
(c) Shortly after patch 2.0.1 it is made slightly more difficult, yet incredibly easier than in (a)

How exactly have Blizzard made the life of a not hardcore player harder? Sure, they have not carried Epics to you on a golden platter and washed your feet in fragrant oils, but man - it's now within reach! Before it was not unless you invested a tremendous amount of time every week. (Decay anyone?)

[Ryste]

I didn't know you can solo the battlegrounds.. don't need help? and It's not "for all we know" about the burning crusade items.. you can look them up you know.. as I took the time to do.

You can't argue with an elitist attitude so I'm finished trying.. those who think Raiding should be the only rewarding feature in the game have their mind set and I'm learning quickly how they think. It was the same in Everquest where you had Top guild a) with ALL the hardcores since there weren't warring sides, they didn't have to split them up. Racing to all the high end content and downing it.. week after week. And you'd be lucky to have a shot. I guess people want World of Warcraft to move in that direction.

Enjoy if it does :rolleyes:

You don't zone in AV as a group do you? 40 people in AV, I can fish, kill mobs, kill npc, defense, offense, plenty of things for me to do. I don't need help from anyone. I am doing the helping if I decide play as a team player and heal. What exactly do I need help from other people? Killing LT, galv, drek? They are doing it for their own benefits, you are a side effect. so what if we lose, big deal, the winner of AV gets 30 extra honor, big woohoo.

Raiding is no longer the only way to get epic gears, you can pvp. To get epics better than T2 gears you will need to spend time, the time was increased from 2-3 weeks (2k a day, 22.5k for epic 1 hander, 10 days to get it) to 3-4 weeks. That seems like too much time for you. Playing 3 hours a day for 10 days will never guarantee a raider a T2 or better epic.

So in essence, pvp gears are much easier to acquire than pve raid gears, I don't know why you still complaining. Perhaps you want epics to handed to you in mails.

[deamian]

You can't argue with an elitist attitude so I'm finished trying..

So how did people do last night in BG? think i was getting 1-2 honor per kill and dang If i can't remember the bonus for the 1 win. Hopeing to end up with about 600honor for the 2 losses and 1 win overral.

[Dutchgrass]

And about the 5th time I've pointed this out.. the people who grabbed 1 item a day.. played 15 hours a day or MORE.. It still doesn't make sense to punish the casuals. It would have been 3-4 weeks now it's more like 6-7 .. I have a job.. I have a life out side of WoW ..done.

I'd add a longer reply, but Tanitha pretty much summed it up already.

WoW is an MMORPG, and this type of games rewards those who spend more time on it. Done.

[Drpep]

At first I was upset over the decrease in honor, but looking at what i had before the patch, there was no way to get what i have already got in the past 2 weeks on my schedule. So even though it took twice as long i am still getting geared out better then what i had before. Got my spell blade, my warlord shoulders and a new mount (didnt need it but maxed out my marks and spent them down)

[Falgorn]

I played about 7 hours (mostly AV, some AB) before the Nerf and got 9k Honour. I played about 5 hours last night winning a bunch of AB's in a row 4-5 5-0 with my Guild and got just under 5k so I think it's realistically only a 30% nerf.

To be honest, if everyone can get the best gear easily right before TBC, then the work raiding guilds have put in upto that is kind of undone. Having said that, in TBC it will level out eventually, and the new high end content will be much more casual gamer friendly. Hard Core will always have better gear, but they do play more and have to have a reward for that. The divide between hard core and casual will not be as noticable in end game TBC and survivability will be higher for everyone. Skilled Casual Gamers will be able to contend with run of the mill Raiders, however Skilled Raiders will still have an advantage.

People won't play the game if everyone gets the very same for the same amount of time played. If you want a level playing field then play an FPS online!

[snowieken]

You can't argue with an elitist attitude so I'm finished trying.. those who think Raiding should be the only rewarding feature in the game have their mind set and I'm learning quickly how they think. It was the same in Everquest where you had Top guild a) with ALL the hardcores since there weren't warring sides, they didn't have to split them up. Racing to all the high end content and downing it.. week after week. And you'd be lucky to have a shot. I guess people want World of Warcraft to move in that direction.If you really think it is not fair, then maybe you should file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau *ducks down*

Anyway, don't assume people who disagree with you here are all hardcore raiding players. I am a casual player myself and I fully understand why people get to the good stuff much quicker if they actually spend time on the game. Is that elitist? No, that's logical.

If you are casual, yes, it might take up to 6 or 7 weeks, but prior to this change the PvP gear was simply impossible to get for us casuals, because honor and the associated ranks diminished over time. Now you have fixed honor - whatever you gain, you keep, so we finally have a chance of getting the PvP gear. If anything, you should be thankful. Why is it such a big deal then that it will take us longer than players who are more active?

[deamian]

Hopeing to end up with about 600honor for the 2 losses and 1 win overral

434 honor for that night.. first night after patch. Just over 50 days, maybe a bit less with weekends..for a GM item. Not bad.


Edit/ looking at my time avail to play I'm less than casual i think?

[Tanitha]

All depends on what you define as casual - I've seen 4-6 hours a day/ers define themselves as "casual" :grin:

[JFoobar]

OK, this entire discussion is ultimately kind of a moot point.

The post-PTR, pre-expansion honor system is a very astute business move on Blizzard's part. Do not get used to it being this way.

Let's look at the situation. The PTR is out. Most of their customers have at least one 60. They have played around with their new specs. That kept them entertained for a few days. Many of come to the conclusion, right or wrong, that raiding between the PTR and the expansion is now pointless. Furthermore, this creates a Catch-22 as many of those who do want to keep raiding can’t because there isn’t enough overall interest in their guilds to get your average Tuesday-night-40man together anymore.

So how does Blizzard keep all these hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of players who are sitting around, twiddling their virtual thumbs, entertained for the 5+ weeks between PTR and expansion? Well, they need a big juicy carrot.

The big juicy carrot is this. Let everyone rapidly grind out honor to get that Rank 13/14 PvP gear that they never had a chance to get before!!.

It’s a brilliant idea. God forbid some of us take a 4-week break from the game and discover real life again.

The fact of the matter, however, is that those who take advantage of this new system will only gain two modest advantages:

1. Their powers in PvP will increase for a short time since this temporary situation has/will ultimately create a more level playing field in the BGs. For example, how often has a hunter with with the GM/HWL bow shot at you in a BG before 10 days ago? How many will be shooting at you with the same bow on 10 January? Biiiig difference.

2. The players that choose to grind out much of this gear will have a modest “leg up” in leveling in the expansion for the first couple of levels. Whether or not this “leg up” really proves to be necessary or even that advantageous remains to be seen. Will it truly be harder (not longer, but harder) to level from 61 to 62 in greens as it was to level from 51 to 52 in greens? No one will know for sure until the expansion is actually out.

So, we can dedicate ourselves to a modest amount of PvP between now and the expansion and get the top of the line PvP gear. Will that continue? Hell no.

There is no way that Blizz is going to leave it this easy. Yes, they have gotten rid of the old honor system where casual and semi-hardcore players had literally no chance of getting this gear…and good riddance. However, the system for the great gear at 70 is going to require a much more substantial investment in time and patience and the hardcore players will obviously get this gear long before the casual player (and they should).

Don’t get me wrong. I am chomping on the big juicy carrot as much as everyone else and am glad that they have put this temporary condition in place. If nothing else, I have grown to actually like BGs over the past 10 days when before I hated them and largely avoided them. I was always somewhat disappointed that I didn’t like them as they are a big part of this game and I am glad that I have finally gotten over that distaste.

My main is a hunter and I am now a much better PvP hunter than I was 10 days ago. The feeling of soloing a Tier 2 rogue even when he got the jump on me in my mixed Tier 1/ZG and blues is not once I shall soon forget and it is only through repeated failure that I learned how to pull this off from time to time.

As a sidenote, I have also slowly but surely come to believe that the sound of a gnome dying is the sweetest music my ears have yet heard.

Also, the BG world will continue to be a much more level playing field for awhile in the expansion until the hardcore players have a chance to gear up (or the raiding guilds get a chance to get to farm status on 70 instances and acquire the tier-uber raiding gear). Let’s face it. Some poor schmo who got into this game late and didn’t 60 his first toon until August (like me) was outgunned from the moment he/she steps foot into any level 60 BGs.

[Ern]

I think the reduction is kinda crummy. I spent a good 3 or 4 hours with the guild last night in BGs and I think we all got maybe 2k honor. I think its more than 30%. One of the guildies says the math adds up to around 51% or so he thought.

[Ryste]

I think the reduction is kinda crummy. I spent a good 3 or 4 hours with the guild last night in BGs and I think we all got maybe 2k honor. I think its more than 30%. One of the guildies says the math adds up to around 51% or so he thought.

How many of those 3-4 hours were you actually in BG? How many games did you actually run in that time?

[rgirty]

Despite the reduction in honor, if your guild does not have an end game instance on mega farm (even if it does in some cases, ie shaman drops for alliance pally drops for horde)

3-4 hours spent in PvP will yield more progress toward gear upgrade than 3-4 hours pve.

[monsterloreweaver]

Last night, I PVP'd from 7:30 to 11:00. I consider myself a casual player, as I typically play Mon, Wed, and Friday...some weekend.

Anyhow, playing on the Alliance side and the longer queue times, I managed to get 2 AB's, 1 WSG, 1 full AV, and 1 half AV. Sucks.

I had just short of 300 HK's and I was short of 1,000 honor. Not even 1,000 honor for 4 1/2 battles? Assuming I had 0 honor to start the night, it'll take me right into BC before I'm able to get the Field Marshall Robes...which are 20k honor or so. Sucks for me.

So, the honor nerf hurt me "the casual player" pretty bad. Why even bother PVP'ing for that gear, now being available to me.

I appreciate Blizzard for opening it up for us casual players...but, the nerf bat really hurt on this one.

Prime example of a bait and switch with old players reactivating their accounts (my friend did - he's a little mad).

[Ryste]

Last night, I PVP'd from 7:30 to 11:00. I consider myself a casual player, as I typically play Mon, Wed, and Friday...some weekend.

Anyhow, playing on the Alliance side and the longer queue times, I managed to get 2 AB's, 1 WSG, 1 full AV, and 1 half AV. Sucks.

I had just short of 300 HK's and I was short of 1,000 honor. Not even 1,000 honor for 4 1/2 battles? Assuming I had 0 honor to start the night, it'll take me right into BC before I'm able to get the Field Marshall Robes...which are 20k honor or so. Sucks for me.

So, the honor nerf hurt me "the casual player" pretty bad. Why even bother PVP'ing for that gear, now being available to me.

I appreciate Blizzard for opening it up for us casual players...but, the nerf bat really hurt on this one.

Prime example of a bait and switch with old players reactivating their accounts (my friend did - he's a little mad).

Did Blizzard promised anyone epic rewards before TBC?

What was the bait from blizzard? How did they switch?

You did 4 BGs.

Did you win any of them?

Say you win both AB, that's 140 bonus honor each, 280 total + kills. (how many of those 300 kills are repeated kills or shared kills, you get 0-2 honor per kill)

WSG, did you win? If you gotten 0 flag, in alliance case that's generally true, you get 0 bonus honor + kill honor.

AV, assuming you win, you get ~300 bonus honor, and kill honor.

So 280 (2 ab wins) + 300 (1 AV win) + 1 WSG (unknown) + 300 kill counts = ~1k honor.

What's wrong with it? Do you think for only 4 BGs, you should be half way to an epic reward or something?

[Grendo]

So an end-game weapon once every three weeks, at a rate of 1k a day - epic armor in under 2. Thats still faster than anything 99% of the endgame population achieves equal upgrades.

I love how people always assume that raiders run into an instance and get a full tier set handed to them. Assuming a guild had a hand-out system with fair loot priority for class peices, and you bring 4 of each class to BWL (as its on par with the marshal gear), and only pieces that were needed dropped...you're looking at 1 upgrade every 4.5-5 weeks. But thats in a perfect world without having to DE a good chunk of repeat gear, get the right drops with the right people etc etc.

Id say 3 weeks is a heck of a lot better than *maybe* 5. But maybe people just prefer fuzzy math instead.

[deamian]

2 AV's and 3 halves of wsg/ab and I think.. my honorfu says 928honor.. Learning to live with it:)

Wondering quickly how can My wife and I best join the same AV.. 1-2-3 go or ... pick the same 1... we tried both and missed on both occasions lol.

[JFoobar]

2 AV's and 3 halves of wsg/ab and I think.. my honorfu says 928honor.. Learning to live with it:)

Wondering quickly how can My wife and I best join the same AV.. 1-2-3 go or ... pick the same 1... we tried both and missed on both occasions lol.

When there are 4-5 of us we just do the 1-2-3 go method on "first available" and usually all get in the same one.

[Azmodious]

why dont you join as grp?

[Ryste]

why dont you join as grp?

can't join as group for AV.

[Inferna]

It seems like everyone is looking at the short run rather than the long run. As a casual player you should NOT be planning to spend your honor before BC comes out. Who cares about the GM gear, save it up. By the time you get to 70 you will most likely have enough honor to possibly purchase 2-3 nice items and be caught up with the game finally. Why spend the next month to obtain something that you will most likely not use at lvl 70? WoW doesn't become WoW until you hit lvl 60 imo. After the expansion the same goes for lvl 70.

[rgirty]

I have been reading more and more reports of the actual nerf being 51%.

The example and test people are using for this is:

Go to AV, sit in the tunnel. Initially pre-nerf you would get +20 honor. Now you get 14. /afk out of the bg and don't pvp anymore on that char. After the nightly honor total the next morning you will show 10 honor.

Anyone else experience this?

[Fervor]

I don't know about 60, but at 59, my honor's been cut big time. Bonus honor for AB was cut by 58%. I get a whole 81 bonus honor for AB. WTF? Seriously, for honor grind, it's not worth doing AB or WSG.

It would be faster for me to get the initial bonus honor in AV, deserter, go watch tv for 15 minutes and do it again. I haven't actually tried this...the bonus honor from BG's...do I need to stick around to the end?

[Cerberus]

If I had problems getting one or two warlord items or a weapon before the expansion I wouldn't make any plans for what to do at 70..

[Leonavice]

Encountered something funny in 1 of the AVs today.

There were triplicates of everything.

Yup 3 Galvs, 3 Belindas, 3 of each lieutenants, 3 x the number of guards around each graveyard, complete with 3 x of their elite guardians, 3 Vanndars, 3 Dreks, 3 x 4 each of warmasters/marshals.

Everyone was shocked. The Horde tried to do their usual zerg and came face to face with 3 x the number of bowmen on the towers, not to mention 3 x the number of vendors/guards around FA killing them. The alliance forgot about winning and went on a rampage killing every officer they could find. We managed to get 545 honor with everything killed except the warmasters and the Dreks before the Horde won the game. And they got only 300 honor from killing 3 x vanndars....

It was a good day :D