Aliance are getting sloppy in AV

[timebomb]

Last night I won about 50% of the games. Now you may think thats bad but my battlegroup in 50 games I won 2, but last night we were 50% 4/8 for the night. Man I had a good time on defence. Aliance is getting sloppy in AV.

Anyone have such luck?

[JFoobar]

I did win 3 last night out of about 10 played, which is higher than average for me. Two of the wins were because the alliance played way too much defense at SH for too long and we simply won the race to the general after that was over.

[Sundestroyer]

Yes, I've noticed the same on my battlegroup. Before we were winning about 25%-33% of the time...but we seem to be pushing 40%-50% now. I haven't noticed any map changes or anything...but we have been playing more defense than before. Also, I think it may have something to do with the amount of rep that is possible in AV. Many people that used to play AB/WSG exclusively are playing more AV now for the rep...which is giving us more experienced PVPers now than before. That is just a theory though.

[rgirty]

winning about 80-90% still for me.

[Riceak]

lol as long as you can play 10 on 1 night you shouldn't complain about how much you win.

I can only play 1 maybe 2 on a whole eavening / night. I win them 99% and only get 6 marks and some rep.


Ooh did I mention the waiting time from 1 1/2 hour?

[timebomb]

damn, an hour and a half wait? thats nuts. my wait on any BG is (no lie) 10-20 secounds. well i'd still want to win :).

[Drpep]

In our battlegrp, alli have also been spending alot of time at SH. Boggles my mind, on why they try and turtle from the start. I might quess that if their q's are long, they might be doing a turtle on purpose to sqeeze as much rep as possible. Just a thought.

Our wait time in av is about 15 to 30 sec per game. AB - 1 to 6 min. Wsg 4 to 6 min. I can sometimes q up for an av and if the wsg wait is just long enough, i can forgo the turtles and exit to another bg with 150 or so bonus honor.

[Mirinda]

On the Sen'jin server I have to wait 30-45 minutes to get into AV. AB and WSG are little populated. No real wait for the 2 vs 2 arenas either.

I have observed Alliance getting sloppy in AV as well. Horde does best when they cut us off in the middle (Icewing) and wipe the initial group that hits Stonehearth Outpost. Then we're rezzing up at Stormpike and in a helluva fight to get past Icewing.

[Inferna]

Once Horde learns to defend their bottleneck (IB GY and TP) like Alliance defends there bottleneck (Stormpike GY) then AV will play out the way developers intended it to.

There is no disadvantage in AV, Horde groups that defend IB GY and TP bottleneck are just as effective, its just that they rarely ever do this whereas Alliance consistently defends Stormpike.

It takes like 10-15 horde to guard the path and they effectively slow the capture of IB gy, TP, and FW gy.

[JFoobar]

Once Horde learns to defend their bottleneck (IB GY and TP) like Alliance defends there bottleneck (Stormpike GY) then AV will play out the way developers intended it to.

There is no disadvantage in AV, Horde groups that defend IB GY and TP bottleneck are just as effective, its just that they rarely ever do this whereas Alliance consistently defends Stormpike.


While I don't disagree with your basic contention, you are contradicting yourself in a way by making an invalid comparison. The only bottleneck that horde has outside of the keeps themselves is the IB ridge, right? Well, the comparable alliance location is not SP, it's SH/IW. Furthermore, SH/IW is a slightly better bottleneck than IB due to line of sight issue for defense.

Alliance gets an additional bottleneck (of sorts) at SP that Horde does not get at FW GY. FW GY really couldn't be more open than it is.

That being said, I think the topographical advantage for alliance in AV is overstated. I believe that it is not so much that the alliance has an advantage, its just that the layout favors the typical disorganized play of an alliance PUG versus a horde PUG. I think in a battle of two-equally geared premades, the difference would be far less noticable.

The bottleneck advantage of SP GY over FW GY is also a substantial disadvantage against organized horde opposition. They can approach from three different directions, two of which offer little warning. Horde can get a lot of people right on top of the flag very fast with little warning. Alliance cannot. How often, however, do you see a horde PUG actually heed calls to take the high road en masse? Those that do take the high road in PUGs usually do it in groups of 1 or 2, which isn't generally very effective.

So, in PUG vs. PUG play, I do believe the Alliance has a notable (albeit hardly fatal) advantage based on the layout of the battlefield. One could also convincingly argue that alliance possesses an advantage based on keep and tower layouts as well but I won't get into that.

[Drpep]

Tips.

Alliance, if you want to win, you will leave 5 in SP and take all straight to our hut. Which alot of you have already figured this out. Leave 3 or 4 at fw to take and keep flag. Horde will, 90 percent of the times stop to sight see at SH. After you take the hut and fw then back track and ninja the gy at our bottleneck. At this point you only have to stop the few d left from getting into Dreks room.

Horde, its not as easy. With all the elites they have gaurding their hut that we dont have, you need to take and hold SP as fast as possible. After you get SP send a grp of 5 to take and hold the bunkers and kill bel. Send rogues and druids to take the towers, as a mage i can barley get off the bridge without dieing to the archers. Towers down all ride and take hut asap.

For a perfect game, i would rather both sides do an all out offensive and let the faster side win. I have seen both sides win in this race. And who cares if you loose, you get almost the same amount of honor in doing so. And the marks? well i have 100 marks in my bag and about 20 in my mailbox with nothing to do with them, so they have to rot.

Whatever you do, please dont turtle. Its a waste of everyones time and takes the place of 3 or 4 games played fast. Thats 200 honor in a turtle for the 800 you can have in the same time frame. :shocked:

[Inferna]

Stormpike is only a bottleneck because the Horde doesn't take advantage of the other ways to get there. If you take the high road you can drop down into the rez point from SP or you can continue further along the ridge above SP head towards the mine and then circle back and come up behind the flag itself.

Alliance encounters alot of elites initially around IB gy/galv and horde encounters them later on down near SP. Plus horde gets basically a free tower and GY in stonehearth at the beginning whereas we only get a free gy. Horde needs to take more advantage of the terrain around SP gy, there are better ways to assault it, granted it may take a bit more coordiantion, its just a matter of telling people to take the high ground and sneak through the gy while alliance is busy at the bottleneck farming hks and cap the flag.

Also I have seen countless rogue duos ninja the stormpike aid station. I really don't think there are disadvantages in AV. Horde needs to realize that there defenses are set up different and that SP /= FW in terms of where to make a stand, they should be making there stand near that gap and IB. Once alliance gets past that gap I agree we have alot of flexiblity in how we can attack FW and the relief hut.

[maladroit2000]

Before the patch that merged servers, Horde won at least 19/20 AVs on The Venture Co. - I got all the way to exhalted without coming close to losing a game. Post patch I would say Horde wins about 4/5 AVs. Because of this I always assumed Horde had an terrain advantage.

[Sundestroyer]

Ok, I take it all back. The Horde has been losing consistantly worse than ever lately. I haven't seen a Horde win in days, and I constantly play AV for the honor.

[StealthAssasin]

ROFL ALLIANCE =1337 what the effs the horde in AV ive currently did like 30+ avs and only lost 2. besides im sorta out of season av player since ive shyed away from pvp in this last week waiting on BC to drop so i can uber grind to 70 and arena me and ma freinds got the killer 3vs3 team going on we will be UNSTOPABLE :O 1337 Crew is u can use numbers -.- in wow only if u can use numbers lol

[Grendo]

ROFL ALLIANCE =1337 what the effs the horde in AV ive currently did like 30+ avs and only lost 2. besides im sorta out of season av player since ive shyed away from pvp in this last week waiting on BC to drop so i can uber grind to 70 and arena me and ma freinds got the killer 3vs3 team going on we will be UNSTOPABLE :O 1337 Crew is u can use numbers -.- in wow only if u can use numbers lolJust. Stop. Posting.Please.

[StealthAssasin]

Just. Stop. Posting.Please.

:lipsrsealed: :lipsrsealed: :lipsrsealed: not even going to say anything to this one dont want to get in trouble once more due to my rap sheet -__- on getting banns for speaking my mind on wut you call geniuses like yourself :lipsrsealed:

[Seeo]

Its all fun and games till someone looses an eye.

[StealthAssasin]

rofl lol i jus dont take kindly to *sensored* mean people lol

[leonhead]

heh i barely win my AV and WSG What happened to stick together?!

[Xmcdaniel]

My guess is that a lot of the more experienced AV players are leveling in BC for gear and that alliance is a little more watered down with new people entering their 50's?

[Xmcdaniel]

Before the patch that merged servers, Horde won at least 19/20 AVs on The Venture Co. - I got all the way to exhalted without coming close to losing a game. Post patch I would say Horde wins about 4/5 AVs. Because of this I always assumed Horde had an terrain advantage.

Isn't AV cross-server just like WSG and AB now?

[moopy]

AV is likely just going to be the scrapings of the playerbase right now, too much else to see and do. A lot of folks who know AV inside out will be getting levelled, equipped and taking in the scenery. People are paranoid that everyone else has out-levelled and out-geared them in TBC, and a lot of folks who are used to dripping in epics are still using the incredible new greens. It's a transition period.

Most folks with a toon on 70 probably have more than one, and want to level those some too, boost professions and goodness knows what else. It will take a while before AV is really interesting again.

Oh, and AV is indeed cross-server. Before the x-server patch, it was hardly ever up on some servers.

[milqueman]

I'm not sure if the Alliance is getting worse in the BG's or not, but I hope so (just kidding) I'm a Horde guy. Anyway, I had 2 60 Horde and 1 60 Alliance. then I deleted and started over on a new sever (for personal reasons) But when I played AV with my alliance, we won ALL THE TIME! but we lost almost all WSG and AB, The Horde dominated those 2. So I re-rolled Horde on a new server and was hoping that I could get good fast rep on the way up to 70 in WSG and AB ( seeing as how the horde always won those) but when I started at level 17, the Horde was losing and losing BAD in WSG. I got so depressed. (keep in mind I changed servers, but stayed in the same battleggroup). I keep telling myself that mybe the Horde is better at WSG and AB at the higher levels. But anyway, I hope it gets better.

Also, when I was alliance level 60 My wait times were:
1 - 1 1/2 hours AV
10 - 15 minutes WSG
10 - 15 minutes AB

Now on the Horde my wait time are less then 10 seconds.