Why?

[Eido]

Why is it that I am seeing an increasing number of posts asking, what are to me, the most basic of questions?

When I started WoW part of the fun was learning how things worked, reading the quests in full to understand what they were trying to teach me.

I suppose I am just getting a bit touchy because I have only just got home from work, and have read a really basic question in a post from a level 27 player.

I was just wondering if it is possible for people to take a bit of interest in the game mechanics and actually try to solve their own problems before resorting to the boards.

Just a whine from a grumpy old man - but I do feel a bit better for it :undecided:

[Lord Feyrbrand]

Is it lonely up there on your pedestal lol JK

I find that far too much my brothers (whom I let make Chars on my account) can not solve a quest just because they don't read the quest log. there may be a few things that people don't get that aren't exactly listed in the book but when i started out I would watch other players to figure out certain things. People do whine a lot though :hide:

[djiss]

and sometime, answer are in the user manual ... not even far in. /sigh

[icutyoubad]

Why?

Because I said so.

[Stigg]

/agree

There do tend to be quite a few "dumb" posts. Half of them are from players with 1 post count. AND that question will be the only post they have...ever.

That being said, I had to aska "stupid" question last night while I was playing. It was something I COULD have found out on my own....but it would have taken me forever to do so. I was trying to get a FP to ratchet from Auberdine. I COULD have simply did the /1 command and asked in general (which I did to a whole bunch of "N00b!!one11!" responses. So I took it here.

Some things I value in finding out for myself. Other people don't tend to think that way. They are usually the ones that use haxors in Super mario brothers so each fireball killed everything on the entire page. For players who have silly questions I usually respond then throw in a smart ass remark at the end. For example: http://forums.worldofwar.net/showthread.php?t=384699 Check out that last addon i recommended strongly for rogues.

[Tanitha]

Why is it that I am seeing an increasing number of posts asking, what are to me, the most basic of questions?

A colossal failure in secondary education, coupled with a culture of instant gratification. It's too easy to enable godmode rather than tactically fight through the levels, thus it's easier to ask here rather than enjoy discovering it for yourself.

And most frequently the answers are in quest logs, or on top of the trainer's initial speech bubble.

But people have learned to not read.

Of course, I've asked a few questions too which had obvious answers once I'd looked in the right places. (Official forums, versus looking here for the mount question, as one example)

<shrug>

[bwirum]

and sometime, answer are in the user manual ... not even far in. /sigh

What is this "user manual" you speak of? Hmmm?

[Mincemaker]

What is this "user manual" you speak of? Hmmm?

Next time, we answer questions this way:

See that book you got in your box? The answer is in page XX.

[Stigg]

Next time, we answer questions this way:

See that book you got in your box? The answer is in page XX.

That takes WAY to much time. I prefer the smartass response with a little bit of "help" so the moderators don't get mad at me.

[Mincemaker]

That takes WAY to much time. I prefer the smartass response with a little bit of "help" so the moderators don't get mad at me.

So, let's simplify to "See that book in your box? Answer's in there!".

[Tanitha]

You could of course give random, made-up page numbers. That would be satisfying your evilosity. Of course, I can't help but think that answering the question might be a lot simpler if not quite as satisfying.

[Idol]

To give us something to do?

We wouldn't be here otherwise.

[Chunderpants]

To be perfectly honest although most of you are probably joking, these responses could be taken as elitist rants.

For Gods sake people show a little humanity and friendship. If you start taking this kind of stance on questions which you feel are stupid/easy/dumb then these forums are going to go down hill rapidly.

Often forums are where things are mentioned that do not appear in a manual, offer a different perspective on something and can be a much faster way of finding something out than reading a manual - which is too thick and in impossible-to-stay-open A5 format.

How many of you have recently been to a library in town rather than look for a reference on the internet?

Someone mentioned yesterday a section or thread for new players. This would be a good idea and would at least allow the OP to view the forum here in a more mellow state of mind!

And finally if you think its a stupid question beneath you or the community - dont answer it then. Im sure someone will.

I didnt want this to be a rant although it reads like one. Having said that it does annoy me a bit about the lack of compassion shown.

[sycamore]

To be perfectly honest although most of you are probably joking, these responses could be taken as elitist rants.

For Gods sake people show a little humanity and friendship. If you start taking this kind of stance on questions which you feel are stupid/easy/dumb then these forums are going to go down hill rapidly.

Often forums are where things are mentioned that do not appear in a manual, offer a different perspective on something and can be a much faster way of finding something out than reading a manual - which is too thick and in impossible-to-stay-open A5 format.

How many of you have recently been to a library in town rather than look for a reference on the internet?

Someone mentioned yesterday a section or thread for new players. This would be a good idea and would at least allow the OP to view the forum here in a more mellow state of mind!

And finally if you think its a stupid question beneath you or the community - dont answer it then. Im sure someone will.

I didnt want this to be a rant although it reads like one. Having said that it does annoy me a bit about the lack of compassion shown.
I agree completely. This forum can be incredibly helpful, but while I understand why people get frustrated at answering the same questions over and over, there are new people constantly starting the game and finding this site, and they don't know that.

I really support the suggestion of a newcomers subforum, it would make this site even better.


There do tend to be quite a few "dumb" posts. Half of them are from players with 1 post count. AND that question will be the only post they have...ever.
Perhaps some of them only post once and don't come back because they get arsy responses :-)

[Pounamu]

On the other hand, that manual that comes with the game is very superficial. I went nuts whenmy Hunter fgot to level 10, I was trying to work out how to feed my pet. The manual was completely no help, all it said was "drag food from bag to pet". I was doing this, it wasn't feeding the pet. What it didn't say was "but you can only do this after you learn the feed pet skill from a trainer". In this case the quest log was also useless it said was "see the next trainer, he will teach you mend pet" or something like that.

On a slightly related note, the posts that bug me are "what class should I play?".

P

[sycamore]

On the other hand, that manual that comes with the game is very superficial. I went nuts whenmy Hunter fgot to level 10, I was trying to work out how to feed my pet. The manual was completely no help, all it said was "drag food from bag to pet". I was doing this, it wasn't feeding the pet. What it didn't say was "but you can only do this after you learn the feed pet skill from a trainer". In this case the quest log was also useless it said was "see the next trainer, he will teach you mend pet" or something like that.
Which is exactly the sort of information that a newcomers section would be ideal for; there could be stickies that gather all these types of questions for each class, etc... though I guess it would take a lot of work/commitment from the moderators which is asking an awful lot.

On a slightly related note, the posts that bug me are "what class should I play?".
Another sticky! Though it wouldn't stop the 'I've read the stickie but what class should I play?' posts :-)

[Piemaster]

and sometime, answer are in the user manual ... not even far in. /sigh

Is it even worth a new player reading the manual any more? So much has changed since release that yu will get a lot of bad information from it. And from what I remember it wasn't 100% accurate at release.

[Clavina]

When I started playing games (on the zx spectrum) the user manual was written in miniscule writing on the inside of the tape box. There were no forums, (or even widely available internet) so the only way to succeed was to figure it out for myself. This skill has carried into todays games where i'd much rather figure it out for myself. I think most 'older' (lol i'm 27) gamers would be like this.

Todays 'mtv generation' gamers are mostly raised in an environment where help is instantly available through a variety of means. The current culture is one of having things NOW! So putting up a post in a forum is seen as easier than actually putting in some effort.

These are vast, sweeping generalisations and arent intended to piss people off! I'm not against people asking for help put it is pretty annoying when it is perfectly clear what needs to be done if you actually read the information that you are given

[dahquim]

Ah the days of the Spectrum

as you can probably tell from my post count, i do not post much (understatment much). I am lvl 43 at the moment, and i still consider myself a noob, there are alot of things i do not know, however after about 20-30 minutes of browsing the forum, i normally find an answer. but not before trying things in the game first.

I browse the forum atleast 3 times a day from work and i am very happy with the amount of help that people seem to be giving, even the smart-ass replies make me laugh and the community here seems to be made of of some VERY knowledgeable (sp?) players.

I guess wot im trying to say is, all your help is very much appriciated, so from a noob to the rest of the community. A BIG THANK YOU for all your help

Thanks

Dahquim

[Mincemaker]

To be perfectly honest although most of you are probably joking, these responses could be taken as elitist rants.

For Gods sake people show a little humanity and friendship. If you start taking this kind of stance on questions which you feel are stupid/easy/dumb then these forums are going to go down hill rapidly.

Often forums are where things are mentioned that do not appear in a manual, offer a different perspective on something and can be a much faster way of finding something out than reading a manual - which is too thick and in impossible-to-stay-open A5 format.

How many of you have recently been to a library in town rather than look for a reference on the internet?

Someone mentioned yesterday a section or thread for new players. This would be a good idea and would at least allow the OP to view the forum here in a more mellow state of mind!

And finally if you think its a stupid question beneath you or the community - dont answer it then. Im sure someone will.

I didnt want this to be a rant although it reads like one. Having said that it does annoy me a bit about the lack of compassion shown.

I had been to a library a week ago to search for some informations on Sciences for my assignment. Do not underestimate the power of books.

Really, there are many questions that are so basic, you can easily find the answers in manuals or stickies. But what really annoys is that instead of reading those, they ask over and over again. When I first started the game, I read the manual, decide on what class to play, then read the relevent stickies. Those relevent materials don't even take more than two hours of your time to read even.

But just so I don't appear nasty, I will direct the newbie in question to those stickies.

But if we are dealing with questions that are more or less the feedback type, or the 'what's your opinion type', I would be more than happy to answer those.

[Chunderpants]

...This skill has carried into todays games where i'd much rather figure it out for myself. I think most 'older' (lol i'm 27) gamers would be like this...

Been playing since text adventures & Elite on the the BBC B then the excellent Amiga 500. I can't even remember when I was 27 {sigh}.

I have to confess I have had to ask my 16yr old son so many questions on WoW he now lets out a loud "TUT!" when I even speak to him now.

He regularly comes over to my chair and says in a condescending "I'm better than thou" kind of voice, why am I doing so-and-so like that?


As for a newcommers thread/section, it doesnt need to be left to the mods to do it, anyone that feels like it could just troll through previous posts and find ones relevant to newcomers and copy them into one post - or just link to them. Not too hard I guess.

[Eido]

Hmm, firstly an apology - yesterday I got home from work after a very long and stressful day and sought solace in the comfort of my brothers and sisters of WoW. The first post I read was a double post about someone not being able to fire their crossbow - a post almost exactly the same as one posted on 16 December. I had spent all day dealing with people who couldn't be bothered to look past the end of their nose and this post irked me a little - hence my post.

I meant no offence but I would urge the newer player to perhaps take the time to search the forums or look at the guides that this site provides - you will find not only the answer to your question but answers to many other questions you may ask in the future.

Yes, I do come from an age when games came on audio cassettes (a video tape but for music - for the younger readers) and the manual was a fold-out key map and loading instructions.

So sorry for my rant, but us oldies are aloud to get grumpy and shout obscenities at random people - that's what we do!

Lastly.

For all those who ask - what class/race should I be? If you cant be bothered to look at the billion-and-one other posts with exactly the same title, you are certainly cut out to be a gnome hunter or a tauren warlock.:thumbsup:

[Cychwyn]

Hands up those who think that anyone of these "offenders" would read the stickies - even if they're in a newbie section? (Especially since they will need to be in huge posts, or lots and lots of threads)
I thought so.

[Clavina]

Hands up who thinks these 'offenders' will even read this thread? :laugh:

[Bodicle]

So what is wrong with people who have only posted once???????

:listen:

[Mincemaker]

Nothing wrong with those who posted once. But those who ask basic questions which they can discover for themselves or are answered by manuals or stickies are those we have a problem with.

[Falchan]

How about a sticky about how to read the stickies, or how to use the 'search' function?

Too many people ask questions which have answers staring them in the face, or are easily accessed by the 'search' function.

[Stigg]

How about a sticky about how to read the stickies, or how to use the 'search' function?

Too many people ask questions which have answers staring them in the face, or are easily accessed by the 'search' function.

And THAT is what I have an issue with. If you come here asking a new, novel, question then I will answer it 100% to my best abiilities (assuming I know the answer or could point you in the correct direction). If you come here and post some question that has been answered on the first page of the forums (or second, or third) you will get a smart ass response from me. Seriously, how hard is it to click a button twice? Fine....if its not on the first 5 pages, then I don't have a problem answering it again. But seriously, there IS a search button!

When I started playing games (on the zx spectrum) the user manual was written in miniscule writing on the inside of the tape box. There were no forums, (or even widely available internet) so the only way to succeed was to figure it out for myself. This skill has carried into todays games where i'd much rather figure it out for myself. I think most 'older' (lol i'm 27) gamers would be like this.

Todays 'mtv generation' gamers are mostly raised in an environment where help is instantly available through a variety of means. The current culture is one of having things NOW! So putting up a post in a forum is seen as easier than actually putting in some effort.


So I'm not 27....I'm 21. BUT I did grow up with my video game addicted brother (who is now 35). He taught me about the gaming community and the gamers mindset. DISCOVER ON YOUR OWN. I mean....thats what a game is for. Put Doom onto the computer, and I can beat it in about 5 seconds by using cheat codes. How fun is that? Sweet. I am invincible and never run out of ammo and can run through walls. Sure, I use the codes now.....AFTER I beat the game on the hardest setting without them. Put the original Myst in and I can beat it in about 4 minutes by entering the final code in the house. I think that game took me about 2 months /played to beat... Now I can type Myst Cheats into google and be done the game in 4 minutes. Did you experience the game? Nope. Do you have any idea how to get into the lighthouse? Nope. Do you know the exact path of the underground train that you mapped out in 3D coordinates over the course of about 3 weeks? Nope. Did you pay $50 for a game that you will play for 4 minutes? Yes.

Experience the games. Be willing to screw up.

[Chunderpants]

...If you come here and post some question that has been answered on the first page of the forums (or second, or third)...........Fine....if its not on the first 5 pages, then I don't have a problem answering it again. But seriously, there IS a search button!

I have to agree with that - and I have seen it (in fact I think there is one in the Professions section). Having said that a lot of questions arent ones that you can easily find using search, for example one I had recently was repairing armour. Now searching for repairing or armour or any combination I thought of brought up loads of unrelated posts. If its specific like a boss, weapon, mod or area then you can be more easily guaranteed a result.

[djiss]

Is it even worth a new player reading the manual any more? So much has changed since release that yu will get a lot of bad information from it. And from what I remember it wasn't 100% accurate at release.

accurate enough to answer question like "how do I change profession?"
yes, the game changed, mostly the mechanic behind the game, and the manual containt no info about those.
But many "basic" function remain the same and their functionnality are still well explained in the book.

When I install a game, it always take some time. That a good moment to read the manual (or when you go to bathroom for a long job... lol).

IMO, If you dont have time to read the user manual, you don't have time to play.

[Xmcdaniel]

Why is it that I am seeing an increasing number of posts asking, what are to me, the most basic of questions?

When I started WoW part of the fun was learning how things worked, reading the quests in full to understand what they were trying to teach me.

I suppose I am just getting a bit touchy because I have only just got home from work, and have read a really basic question in a post from a level 27 player.

I was just wondering if it is possible for people to take a bit of interest in the game mechanics and actually try to solve their own problems before resorting to the boards.

Just a whine from a grumpy old man - but I do feel a bit better for it :undecided:

LOL...I saw a griefing vid on youtube where a mage was in AV opening portals and /s "CLICK ON PORTAL TO HELP SUMMON". You wouldn't believe how many people clicked on it and were ported out of the BG. Now if a mage could cast a portal in lvl 19 WSG and do that I would chalk it up to inexperienced players. But Alterac Valley? Are you freakin' kidding me? If you've invested THAT MUCH TIME into WoW to be in AV and not know that 1) a mage can't summon, and 2) you can't summon people into a BG anyway...LOL!, you should just quit the game and work on getting an education.

The funniest part was the comments that the video received talking about how much of a jerk this guys was. He wasn't being a jerk, he was exposing how the collective stupidity of WoW players regardless of level. How someone wouldn't know simple game mechanics beyond level 50 in WoW is exasperating to me.

In fact here's the link see for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n52v0bVpWis

[sycamore]

LOL...I saw a griefing vid on youtube where a mage was in AV opening portals and /s "CLICK ON PORTAL TO HELP SUMMON". You wouldn't believe how many people clicked on it and were ported out of the BG. Now if a mage could cast a portal in lvl 19 WSG and do that I would chalk it up to inexperienced players. But Alterac Valley? Are you freakin' kidding me? If you've invested THAT MUCH TIME into WoW to be in AV and not know that 1) a mage can't summon, and 2) you can't summon people into a BG anyway...LOL!, you should just quit the game and work on getting an education.

The funniest part was the comments that the video received talking about how much of a jerk this guys was. He wasn't being a jerk, he was exposing how the collective stupidity of WoW players regardless of level. How someone wouldn't know simple game mechanics beyond level 50 in WoW is exasperating to me.

In fact here's the link see for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n52v0bVpWis

There was a discussion about people doing that on the EU boards, all the people who'd fallen for it excused it on the grounds that warlocks and mages both wear robes, and you can summon someone from one part of a BG to another part.

fwiw :-)

[Xmcdaniel]

There was a discussion about people doing that on the EU boards, all the people who'd fallen for it excused it on the grounds that warlocks and mages both wear robes, and you can summon someone from one part of a BG to another part.

fwiw :-)

LOL...the difference in appearance between a mage portal and a warlock portal is night and day (literally). If you are level 50+ and you can't distinguish between the two, you either bought your character on ebay or you are a complete and utter fool.

The reason this country is in the state it's in now with regard to education is because because everything has been made easy and it's ok to do something stupid over and over again with no consequences, therefore making it almost acceptable to be an idiot. WoW is the virtual proving ground of this theory even though I enjoy playing it to no end (I try to associate myself with the more mature players it makes the experience much much better).

[Grendo]

I come off as elitist sometimes, and Im ok with that. My issue with 'new posts' is as follows.

I want to help you. Honest. Im a nice guy, and a long time MMO player. Ive been both casual and hardcore and understand the frustrations that can occur in both, as well as the self-perceived need for an answer 5minutes ago.

However, I also value my time highly. If you want help, without a sarcastic/mean/rude/unhelpful tone, show me that you DESERVE an answer. The easiest way to do this is to show me that you put thought into your post, making it deserving of a proper answer.

- Did you search for the answer first? The search on this forum type is much better than that of the official forums. Why should I spent 5 minutes of my time answering your question, when I did so for someone who was much more eloquent 2 days ago. This is even more disturbing when the older post with the same information is ON THE SAME FRONT PAGE. This shows me you cared little for my time, and decided to be selfish with your own.

- Did you try to solve the problem yourself? Many ingame questions can be answered by reading the text in quests, asking in general, or simply trying something (Lvl 10 hunter questions are a perfect example of this). WoW is by far the easiest MMO Ive ever played. If you post an obviously stupid question, I know that either A. You probably wont understand an answer anyway, B. See the first bullet, or C. Youre relying on other people to do
things for you. I dont appreciate being used.

- Did you spend time explaining your problem to us? If your post is riddled with l33t spelling, incomplete sentences, and an overuse of abbreviations...and english is your first language, its really not going to help your case. Its pretty easy to tell a german poster from a 12year old who thinks he is too cool for vowels. I promise you, you aren't. I could care less about punctuation (unless its a block of a single run-on sentence) or even typos or
spelling, but for the love of whatever God you may or may not believe in, tkng out 1 ltr or mre pr wrd ds nt mke u awsome!111one.

- Are you planning on ever posting again? If not, just leave. Use google for your simplistic needs. Even if it's just a second post saying thank you, thats the answer you needed (so that we can stop replying to it and let it die in the proverbial forum trash heap) goes a long way. Again,
show us you appreciate the time we took out of our day to answer your insignificant question. I think many of us can tell from the very first post, if we can ever expect to hear from you again. Keep in mind, this forums is a community. As such, everyone that visits, or decides to stay, needs to respect it as such, and every post should be created with an intent of making the site better. I wouldn't expect you to throw all your trash in the middle of your living room, waiting for someone else to clean it up, so dont litter our community with your trash. The mods have enough to do as is, without cleaning up behind you.

I dont tell people how they should post because I believe Im somehow better than them. However, forums live and die by the information posted within them, and to watch the number of posts that dont take the above into consideration climb, is very much like the steamroller scene in Austin Powers. Its a slow gradual death that I can see coming, and if I dont say something, I might as well just stand there waiting for it to overcome us.

If that makes me an elitist jerk with some of my posts, thats Ok. Ill still sleep at night. Honest.

[Stigg]

LOL...the difference in appearance between a mage portal and a warlock portal is night and day (literally). If you are level 50+ and you can't distinguish between the two, you either bought your character on ebay or you are a complete and utter fool.

The reason this country is in the state it's in now with regard to education is because because everything has been made easy and it's ok to do something stupid over and over again with no consequences, therefore making it almost acceptable to be an idiot. WoW is the virtual proving ground of this theory even though I enjoy playing it to no end (I try to associate myself with the more mature players it makes the experience much much better).

Umm what? Pre=epics (or tier) it is hard to distinguish the difference between mages and locks (unless they have their minion out). mages and locks where can where teh same armor, and it is usually about the same. Locks may gor more towards the +stamina side, but they need int. Mages will go for int and stamina.....which makes the classes overlap. AND asinne fools also are what bring this country down. EDIT: I'll play nice.


See now THAT was a useful post.

Grendo - Heads on. Although I tend to stick around these forums and don't really my time at work highly, if you ask a question and I answer it with more than yes/no, or a single sentence, come back and say thanks.....or better yet, stick around the forums and help somebody else out. Its kind of annoying when I spend 20 minutes researching everything to make a clear and utter post only to see the post never get responded to again and the thread count of that guy = 1.

[sycamore]

LOL...the difference in appearance between a mage portal and a warlock portal is night and day (literally). If you are level 50+ and you can't distinguish between the two, you either bought your character on ebay or you are a complete and utter fool.
I know, I was just passing on their excuses :-)

The reason this country is in the state it's in now with regard to education is because because everything has been made easy and it's ok to do something stupid over and over again with no consequences, therefore making it almost acceptable to be an idiot. WoW is the virtual proving ground of this theory even though I enjoy playing it to no end (I try to associate myself with the more mature players it makes the experience much much better).
I assume by 'this country' you mean the UK and the whole, glorious concept of 'deferred success' - that one still takes my breath away.

I don't really have any explanations... and have just deleted my long, rambling and OT response to what you say as I guess this isn't really the place to get into such debates :-) But I think there's an awful lot more to it than just stupid ideas like 'deferred success'. Edit: I mean, there's an awful lot more to the state of our education system than just trying to get people to eventually pass qualifications - but I'll stop again, because otherwise I'll just rant.

[sycamore]

Umm what? Pre=epics (or tier) it is hard to distinguish the difference between mages and locks (unless they have their minion out). mages and locks where can where teh same armor, and it is usually about the same. Locks may gor more towards the +stamina side, but they need int. Mages will go for int and stamina.....which makes the classes overlap.
Agreed, but he was talking about the portal/summoning graphic (and presumably the 'portal to darnassus' tooltip) rather than gear I think.

AND asinne fools also are what bring this country down. EDIT: I'll play nice.
I was thinking something similar but also played nicely :-)

[Stigg]

I'm also starting to get thoroughly annoyed by the whole:

"What class/race/profession should I take?" Then the actual paragraph being something like:

Im a n00b. which should I do?

[Tanitha]

Now searching for repairing or armour or any combination I thought of brought up loads of unrelated posts. If its specific like a boss, weapon, mod or area then you can be more easily guaranteed a result.

I find that listing the searches I've done in the beginning of a new thread asking a question helps. Usually I'll try to explain the motivation for the question, with as much back story as possible.

That shows people that (a) you've invested the time to try and find an answer for yourself and the answers weren't satisfactory and (b) you are serious about asking the question and obtaining answers.

What Grendo says is incredibly true. Spell checking and asking a question in full words and sentences shows someone who cares enough about their question to ask it properly. There's a lot of respect there.

A simple thank you scores so many brownie points its not funny. But how many of the 1 posters EVER return to say thank you? Or to ask for further clarification? They're not even a Pratchett one in a million.

Edit:
I just came across the perfect example. I won't link it, but the conversation went something like:

I really need ur halp:
OP: OMG. Never seen Tier 4 or 5 pics. Post plx.
RESP: Google them.
OP: Thx! That worked. Got em.

At least he said ... well ... I think that is thank you. Either that or he's developed a new sound standard which he's licensing to LucasArts.

[Stigg]

Here we go. This should be the sticky at the top of this and every other forum:

Title: New Player Guide

Hello all new or returning WoW players! Welcome to this thread, where all your questions will be answered in just a quick read! After installing the game (if you are having a problem installing the game, go buy a new computer. Yours doesn't know how to load a freakin cd), you are given the choice of a server. Defiantly choose the OLDEST PVP server there is. Preferably one that has a description in red of "FULL". Grat job! It's going to take about 45 minutes while you wait in Q to get onto your server. This will happen everyday and you shouldn't be concerned.

Cool. Done the Q? Awesome! Now log in. You can now choose any class you want. I would HIGLY recommend playing alliance. The BG Q's are much much shorter, which will allow you to play so many more games! Now choose your class. here is a very good guide for new players that I found on these forums:

i think you should definately level a holy priest, prot warrior, resto druid, holy pala or resto shaman. they are the quickest and easiest classes/specs to level up

So choose any of those classes. You will want to get to level 10 as fast as you can, because THAT is when you should enter WSG. If you are any higher level than that, the players will think you are a threat and focus all their damage on you immediatly. You will Only want to play in Bgs when you are at the 10's levels...i.e. 10, 20, 30, 40, etc. Remember that!

Ok, so your not making any gold? Well thats ok. gold really isnt that important. You should really just vendor all the stff you find then go buy the most expensive items off the AH ever single level. This will save you lots of gold!

But what about professions? I personally would HIGHLY recommend two Crafting professions. Engineering should definatly be one of them, and probably Leatherworking is another excellent choice. No need for gathering professions, as those are really just a waste of time and money.

Leveling time! What you are going to want to do is do 1 quest in one zone, then move to a different zone (and preferably the other continent) to do one other quest. Then go back to the first spot, wash and repeat. This is BY far the most xp/hr one can expect to gain.

You should really consider going back to a major city every 10 levels and check for updates on your class abilities. You COULD do this every two levels, but it is really just a waste of time, as the only GOOD abilities come in at level 10, 20, 30, etc. Don't even worry about the others.

Another excellent leveling technique is by discovering new areas. You may want to consider discovering every zone in the world before level 10...as that would net you a TON of xp. Don't worry about getting the flight paths to the new places you visit....you can run back and grab them later on.

[sqchram]

WHERE I FIND LVL2 I SEARCH AND NOT IN BOOK ALSO WHAT HAIR COLUR BEST

Seriously - 12hours at work and usually its slow enough that I just troll the forums and my guilds website for ANY new post. Most of the time it passes a few seconds, sometimes I'll bite tho.

/hail noobs

[Xmcdaniel]

Umm what? Pre=epics (or tier) it is hard to distinguish the difference between mages and locks (unless they have their minion out). mages and locks where can where teh same armor, and it is usually about the same. Locks may gor more towards the +stamina side, but they need int. Mages will go for int and stamina.....which makes the classes overlap. AND asinne fools also are what bring this country down. EDIT: I'll play nice.


See now THAT was a useful post.

Grendo - Heads on. Although I tend to stick around these forums and don't really my time at work highly, if you ask a question and I answer it with more than yes/no, or a single sentence, come back and say thanks.....or better yet, stick around the forums and help somebody else out. Its kind of annoying when I spend 20 minutes researching everything to make a clear and utter post only to see the post never get responded to again and the thread count of that guy = 1.

Really? I didn't know that locks and mages wore the same gear!? Holy schnikeys! My point is that if you're a lvl 50+ and still can't distiguish the obvious difference between a lock port and a mage port I feel sorry for you. Also...I have never (or at least can't remember) been in a BG where the lock doesn't have his pet summoned.

"Oh, it's ok. That level 55 Nelf Huntard didn't know the difference between a mage and lock port. He only has a playtime of over 250 hours...give him a break."...this is the kind of attitude I'm talking about.

[Xmcdaniel]

This is an almost daily ritual in the UC:

[xxPwnzorxx] yells: WHERE IS THE MAGE QUARTER?!!!!11111111!
Me: /w "look on your map"
(I shift-click players name)
Text: xxPwnzorxx, Level 29 Orc Rogue, Undercity

[Tanitha]

WHERE I FIND LVL2 I SEARCH AND NOT IN BOOK ALSO WHAT HAIR COLUR BEST

Seriously - 12hours at work and usually its slow enough that I just troll the forums and my guilds website for ANY new post. Most of the time it passes a few seconds, sometimes I'll bite tho.

/hail noobs

Yes. Roll a Night Elf Hunter. Call it Legolas. Or a Draenai Shaman and call him Hordalicious. :grin:

/hail response to noobs.

[sqchram]

lol between the 'Why?' and 'New' threads, i'm almost done with my 1/2 day at work! =]

[Xmcdaniel]

I know, I was just passing on their excuses :-)


I assume by 'this country' you mean the UK and the whole, glorious concept of 'deferred success' - that one still takes my breath away.

I don't really have any explanations... and have just deleted my long, rambling and OT response to what you say as I guess this isn't really the place to get into such debates :-) But I think there's an awful lot more to it than just stupid ideas like 'deferred success'. Edit: I mean, there's an awful lot more to the state of our education system than just trying to get people to eventually pass qualifications - but I'll stop again, because otherwise I'll just rant.

Nope I'm in the states...I am amazed at how mindless many people in my country are nowadays. Pretty much everything is EZ-mode, resulting in a lack of common courtesy for people's time and reluctance or flat out refusal to solve a problem without the help of others or other things. I think that's what this thread is about. I'm just afraid of what the results will be 10-20 years from now in terms of work ethic and the amount of critical thinking that will be going on (if there is any).

[sycamore]

Nope I'm in the states...I am amazed at how mindless many people in my country are nowadays. Pretty much everything is EZ-mode, resulting in a lack of common courtesy for people's time and reluctance or flat out refusal to solve a problem without the help of others or other things. I think that's what this thread is about. I'm just afraid of what the results will be 10-20 years from now in terms of work ethic and the amount of critical thinking that will be going on (if there is any).

Well, obviously I can't comment about the US, but I don't believe things are as bleak as you make out - both my husband and I work in education in various guises (he's just started as a teacher in what is officially the third worst school in our region, we've both taught at various universities and I'm a researcher at another university) and where things go wrong is in how young people are treated, especially when they're being indoctrinated with the idea that they're not valued and pretty much worthless. When the education system is constantly mucked about by politicians working to other agendas they have little chance.

I'll now put my hobbyhorse in the stable and stop taking things OT.

[Imrei]

Nope I'm in the states...I am amazed at how mindless many people in my country are nowadays. Pretty much everything is EZ-mode, resulting in a lack of common courtesy for people's time and reluctance or flat out refusal to solve a problem without the help of others or other things. I think that's what this thread is about. I'm just afraid of what the results will be 10-20 years from now in terms of work ethic and the amount of critical thinking that will be going on (if there is any).

It is truly a sad thing for me right now, but I agree 100% with the above post.

Yes, I'm an American. I'm proud of my country.

But, it is declining in many area's, and the above post points at some things that I myself have noticed alot as well.

Sorry.. not trying to get things to an anti-*insert any country name here* type thing, but these are actually HUGE problems in any country (as pointed out, the USA very much so.) and they are VERY well illustrated by the players of this game at times.

Take time to read, to work, to learn. EXPECT things to take time for you to read, to work for, and to learn about. Thats one of the very cool things about this game (and others..) is that quests do NOT just give you xp and rewards.. Sometimes they tell a story or impart knowledge..... Just be willing to read about it and work for it...

[djiss]

all the good stuff and nice hint you put there are wasted.
those who need to read that wont read it, they'll just post a new thread and watch that one like a hawk til they got their answer.
and if they got only a count of 1, it's because they create another avatar for each new question they have...
and making a sticky called "All the info you need to know if you need to be taken by the hand to play a video game" is useless.... they dont read sticky.

what I also found dumb is people calling themself "noob" right at begining.
no self esteem?

[Xmcdaniel]

Well, obviously I can't comment about the US, but I don't believe things are as bleak as you make out - both my husband and I work in education in various guises (he's just started as a teacher in what is officially the third worst school in our region, we've both taught at various universities and I'm a researcher at another university) and where things go wrong is in how young people are treated, especially when they're being indoctrinated with the idea that they're not valued and pretty much worthless. When the education system is constantly mucked about by politicians working to other agendas they have little chance.

I'll now put my hobbyhorse in the stable and stop taking things OT.

My wife is a teacher...yes it is a circular problem...it's not so much the teacher's fault that a student fails, but more the environment that surrounds the student that causes them to fail. My wife comes home frustrated almost every night because she spent 3/4 of her day disciplining the poor students and not being able to spend time with the students that actually want to succeed. The problems that you intimate in your response in the UK are remarkably similar in the US, as I'd imagine they would be in any other 1st world country.

[Tanitha]

Take time to read, to work, to learn. EXPECT things to take time for you to read, to work for, and to learn about. Thats one of the very cool things about this game (and others..) is that quests do NOT just give you xp and rewards.. Sometimes they tell a story or impart knowledge..... Just be willing to read about it and work for it...

Here in New Zealand they recently decided that txt speak would be acceptable in exams, with I believe the caveat of it being understandable. Multiple choice questions. No drive to excel, people are simply marked "Achieved" or "Not achieved".

They are trying so hard here to not hurt anyone's feelings that nobody actually has to *do* anything. And every-one wonders why so many children end up in bars, drunk on the streets and with nothing to their names and nowhere to go.

[Stigg]

Here in New Zealand they recently decided that txt speak would be acceptable in exams, with I believe the caveat of it being understandable. Multiple choice questions. No drive to excel, people are simply marked "Achieved" or "Not achieved".

They are trying so hard here to not hurt anyone's feelings that nobody actually has to *do* anything. And every-one wonders why so many children end up in bars, drunk on the streets and with nothing to their names and nowhere to go.

lol wth? r u srious? no wai? NZ b getn lol'd @ 4 it.


Are you freakin kidding me? Text speak on exams?!!??!?!!? If I put "next I need 2 add 2 2 2 2 make 4" on a test I would have been shot!

[Tanitha]

lol wth? r u srious? no wai? NZ b getn lol'd @ 4 it.

Deadly serious. Article here (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3854612a11,00.html). It was /. a while ago and even made the Kairo news. :grin:

[Xmcdaniel]

lol wth? r u srious? no wai? NZ b getn lol'd @ 4 it.


Are you freakin kidding me? Text speak on exams?!!??!?!!? If I put "next I need 2 add 2 2 2 2 make 4" on a test I would have been shot!

Another example...this is directly related to WoW. I'm an officer in my guild and we allowed some of the lower levels to invite people they were grouping with to the guild. We get a new member and as usual they say "hello" and everyone on guild chats says "welcome!" or something to that effect. We get into chatting with the new person and she tells us that she's 9 years old. Not only that, but this is at 3 o'clock in the morning. Not only was it creepy for me (being a married 30 year old male with 2 children), but what amazed me was that this young girl is being allowed to even be up at that time of night playing a game like WoW. This was a weekday too!

When I was 9 years old, my parents didn't allow me to play a video game (Sega Master System...lol) or watch TV for more than 2 hours a day. My brother and I spent our time playing outside for goodness sakes. And they certainly would NEVER allow me to be up playing a game at 3 AM talking to 30 year olds. I should add that I was no angel either once I got to my teenage years.

Are there any limits these days? Seriously! It just scares me what things will be like when these young people are the decision-makers/leaders in the future.

[djiss]

2 words
"parent fault"

txt speak come on....

Question 1. what is the sum of 2 and 2?
Answer : pff 4 u nub

[Stigg]

Another example...this is directly related to WoW. I'm an officer in my guild and we allowed some of the lower levels to invite people they were grouping with to the guild. We get a new member and as usual they say "hello" and everyone on guild chats says "welcome!" or something to that effect. We get into chatting with the new person and she tells us that she's 9 years old. Not only that, but this is at 3 o'clock in the morning. Not only was it creepy for me (being a married 30 year old male with 2 children), but what amazed me was that this young girl is being allowed to even be up at that time of night playing a game like WoW. This was a weekday too!

When I was 9 years old, my parents didn't allow me to play a video game (Sega Master System...lol) or watch TV for more than 2 hours a day. My brother and I spent our time playing outside for goodness sakes. And they certainly would NEVER allow me to be up playing a game at 3 AM talking to 30 year olds. I should add that I was no angel either once I got to my teenage years.

Are there any limits these days? Seriously! It just scares me what things will be like when these young people are the decision-makers/leaders in the future.

Realize though that it might have been noon her time.

I think when I was nine I loved Sunday nights because that was the only night I was allowed to stayup until 9pm.....so that we could all sit around our TV and watch Dr.Quinn Medicine Woman.

[Tanitha]

"parent fault"

Yes, but it goes deeper than that. It's as much the fault of the parents as it is of the community and society. Think of the way primates raise their young and compare that to the way we raise ours. I think the monkeys are onto something.

[djiss]

monkey punch you in the face if you dont listen.

parent no more have right to use "moderate force" to discipline their child, and mostly dont care anyway.
"if you touch me, i call the police"

Near where I live. A teen got backstab by 12 teen because he didnt "respected" one of those. (Read : he didnt pooped in his pant like those guy expected...)
The first guy stabed once, but that wasnt enough. They beated the crap out him, and continu to stab him.
When those 12 teen came to the court, their parent (parent of the murderer) were looking at the parent of the murdered teen like it was "their fault".
Like "****er, why you dumb kid had to piss off my kid? he deserved to die so STFU"
I saw them in the new and yes, they were looking like that.
Worst, those kid was cheering IN FRONT of the other parent's teen.
Recently, I heard the primary murderer even made a video promoting violence and ghetto style.

14-16yrs teen.

anyway, that out of topic

[Xmcdaniel]

Realize though that it might have been noon her time.

I think when I was nine I loved Sunday nights because that was the only night I was allowed to stayup until 9pm.....so that we could all sit around our TV and watch Dr.Quinn Medicine Woman.

Nope, I asked...she was in the same timezone as me.:grin:

[sycamore]

My wife is a teacher...yes it is a circular problem...it's not so much the teacher's fault that a student fails, but more the environment that surrounds the student that causes them to fail. My wife comes home frustrated almost every night because she spent 3/4 of her day disciplining the poor students and not being able to spend time with the students that actually want to succeed. The problems that you intimate in your response in the UK are remarkably similar in the US, as I'd imagine they would be in any other 1st world country.

I promise this will be my last post on this, but I did want to reply since you'd taken the time to post. Your wife sounds as though she's in exactly the same position as my husband, he's only gone into teaching recently and even though I don't think he had too much of a rose-tinted, dead poets' society (yeah, he's an English teacher) expectation of it, he's hugely frustrated and already becoming demoralised.

But it's not only the students' fault, there are many other factors. Where we live, the recruitment for teachers is the regional council's responsibility, and their policy is that teachers who interview well get their choice of school (i.e. the good schools) and those who are weak get put into the poor schools - so the problems associated with poor teachers working in poor schools is compounded by the fact that those teachers are demoralised, p'ed off and don't want to be there any more than the students. League tables apparently matter more than students, so students are actually prevented from sitting exams and at least having the chance to get a qualification (because the league tables are based on the results of students who sat exams, not the entire student body), so it's made clear to these students that they're worthless and considered detrimental to the school before they even get the chance to answer a single question. Schools are being built without enough classrooms, without science labs and even without kitchens to cook school meals because the way they're financed is designed to benefit pals of the government rather than students or their communities...

As you can see, I could go on, but now I promise I really will stop and go back to killing gorillas in the Stranglethorn mist :-)

[Xmcdaniel]

I promise this will be my last post on this, but I did want to reply since you'd taken the time to post. Your wife sounds as though she's in exactly the same position as my husband, he's only gone into teaching recently and even though I don't think he had too much of a rose-tinted, dead poets' society (yeah, he's an English teacher) expectation of it, he's hugely frustrated and already becoming demoralised.

But it's not only the students' fault, there are many other factors. Where we live, the recruitment for teachers is the regional council's responsibility, and their policy is that teachers who interview well get their choice of school (i.e. the good schools) and those who are weak get put into the poor schools - so the problems associated with poor teachers working in poor schools is compounded by the fact that those teachers are demoralised, p'ed off and don't want to be there any more than the students. League tables apparently matter more than students, so students are actually prevented from sitting exams and at least having the chance to get a qualification (because the league tables are based on the results of students who sat exams, not the entire student body), so it's made clear to these students that they're worthless and considered detrimental to the school before they even get the chance to answer a single question. Schools are being built without enough classrooms, without science labs and even without kitchens to cook school meals because the way they're financed is designed to benefit pals of the government rather than students or their communities...

As you can see, I could go on, but now I promise I really will stop and go back to killing gorillas in the Stranglethorn mist :-)


Ahh...farming for the Staff of Jordan? I go there sometimes and theres literally 30 players killing gorillas non-stop!

[Eido]

/me runs away from hornets' nest, throwing pointy stick as far as possible and vowing never again to post on forums after a bad day at work!

[Valas Azuviir]

Nope I'm in the states...I am amazed at how mindless many people in my country are nowadays. Pretty much everything is EZ-mode, resulting in a lack of common courtesy for people's time and reluctance or flat out refusal to solve a problem without the help of others or other things. I think that's what this thread is about. I'm just afraid of what the results will be 10-20 years from now in terms of work ethic and the amount of critical thinking that will be going on (if there is any).

To be honest, imo, the entire world is going to the Nine Hells in a handbasket.
Which is why part of me wouldn't mind, an asteroid smacking into the world in say the timeframe you indicated and humanity being forced to start over, that is working under the presumption that humans as a species even survived that is. Least that way, I wouldn't have to see so much bantha poodoo.

One thing I am noticing more and more. As the number of winters past grow, my patience levels keep declining in a proportionate matter. Things, I would've shrugged off many a year ago, now lead to griping sessions.

[rgirty]

To be honest, imo, the entire world is going to the Nine Hells in a handbasket.
Which is why part of me wouldn't mind, an asteroid smacking into the world in say the timeframe you indicated and humanity being forced to start over, that is working under the presumption that humans as a species even survived that is. Least that way, I wouldn't have to see so much bantha poodoo.

One thing I am noticing more and more. As the number of winters past grow, my patience levels keep declining in a proportionate matter. Things, I would've shrugged off many a year ago, now lead to griping sessions.

I'm in near agreement and I think I know why things are like they are.

Most if not all parents want their kids to have it better than they did.

So most kids grow up having it pretty easy, hence if you have never worked for anything or had to put out a lot of effort most people don't appreciate life their belongings or others.

[Mincemaker]

Hey, these kids are good for one thing: free HK. But grouping with them in a BG will test your patience.

Thank god for arena. Now we can be sure the guy fighting beside us is not an idiot.

[snowieken]

Basically, I agree with the original idea of this thread. It's at least a bit annoying to see that some new players clearly haven't even glanced at the manual, and the "what class should I play?" threads are sometimes driving me up the wall sometimes. Not to mention the "what profession is best for cash?" threads in the professions forum. Heck, I've read the manual thoroughly on my way home from work, after I stopped at the store to buy the game. I couldn't wait.

But somehow I am a bit concerned that this "trend" of annoyance is going to pass over to simple questions who are not in the manual. The "Quest for the Holy Search Function" is a good example of that, I reckon. All too often I've seen one time posters ask a question which is not solvable by reading the manual, can be answered in one simple sentence and is in fact rather original, and the poor person gets cracked down because that question has been answered already somewhere in the last month and he "obviously didn't search around first". If there is one thing that drives new people away from a forum, it's an arrogant answer like that. And if you can't even bother to include this answer, which takes only one simple sentence, with your smartbehind comment about the forum's search function, then I really do wonder who is in fact the lazy one.

For the rest I agree. But I wanted to point this out nevertheless. Annoyance with this "easy mode" is one thing, but don't let it lead to unwillingness to help, or even worse, actual newbie bashing.

[Eido]

Annoyance with this "easy mode" is one thing, but don't let it lead to unwillingness to help, or even worse, actual newbie bashing.


It won't come to that Snow. The thing that has most impressed me with these forums is the willingness to help from all of the community.

I think nearly all of the established members here can differentiate a genuine original question from a lame 'what class question' and I am sure that most members enjoy sharing their knowledge with the newer deciples of WoW.

What kicked me off in the first place was the increasing trend towards reliance on the community as opposed to participation in the community.

In truth, if a flippant response drives away a potential new member to the boards then so be it, either:

1. they had no intention of sticking around anyway; or
2. they are not mature enough to see the error of their ways and amend their attitude.

The members of this forum are rock solid - I salute you all