2.0.6 pre Patch Notes please? [Archive] - Unofficial World of Warcraft Forums

EdvinMedvind

22-01-2007, 01:41 PM

Hunters

"Silencing Shot" now does only 50% of weapon damage instead of 75%.

The base damage for "Arcane Shot" has been reduced by about 9% and the bonus damage from ranged attack power reduced from 20% to 15%.

The bonus damage for "Barrage" is now 4/8/12% for ranks 1/2/3.

The bonus damage for "Improved Barrage" is now 4/8/12% for ranks 1/2/3.

Mages

Each rank of "Improved Fireball" now reduces your spell damage coefficient by 2%.

Each rank of "Improved Frostbolt" now reduces your spell damage coefficient by 2%.

"Counterspell" no longer triggers the global cooldown.

"Mana Shield" now absorbs magical damage as well as physical damage.

Priests

The bonus coefficient for "Shadow Word: Pain" has been reduced by about 9%. This should result in about 5% less damage done by "Shadow Word: Pain" for the typical priest.

Bug Fixes

The "Frozen Shadoweave Boots" will now properly increase shadow damage.

Players will no longer lose control of their character if they tryto talk to an NPC while mobs are aggro on them.

The /equip command will now work on pieces of gear that are not in your primary bag.

Fixed an issue that was causing some players to disconnect in Hellfire Citadel:Blood Furnace.

The "Corruptor" 4 piece set bonus will now be properly applied.

The Legion Fel Cannons at Forge Camp Anger in Blades Edge will now properly spawn above ground.

The Arena queue tooltip will now show the arena that the player is queued for.

Fixed an error that was causing players to disconnect if they tried to socket a gem that had been gift wrapped.

Fixed an error that was causing players to disconnect forming a party with other members in the same area.

Pet icons will now properly update in the Stables window.Improved the robustness of the pet action bar display. It is now less likely to be accidentally blocked by addons.

Players will no longer hear the gong sound repeated after initially joining a queue for the battlegrounds.

Having a group invite declined while queued via "Looking for More" will no longer remove you from the queue.

Nethershards will no longer cost honor to purchase but will cost gold instead.

Players will no longer be given access to both quest lines followingthe Declaration of Allegiance to the Scryers or Aldor in Shattrath City.

--------------------------------

Morale: whining pays off.

Golug

22-01-2007, 02:29 PM

Thanks bud

Harabecw

22-01-2007, 02:37 PM

Oatmealsmurf

22-01-2007, 03:00 PM

Ah yes Hunters ... welcome to the club.

Signed a Warlock... LOL

PS... happy that someone at blizz realized that if Lock DoTs needed to be nerfed then so did SW:P

Seeo

22-01-2007, 03:55 PM

Oatmealsmurf

22-01-2007, 04:01 PM

Based on what? This is the exact same thing I heard last night from one of my guildies regaring changes on PTR. Or is that post just representing your hopes?

Seeo

22-01-2007, 04:05 PM

Dutchgrass

22-01-2007, 04:05 PM

Those are fake.

Very fake.

I can't for the life of me figure out why they'd nerf hunters, yet again.

And again...

And again...

And again...

And again...

And again...

And again...
And again...
And again...And again...And again...And again...

Probably because it's needed eh?
Wild guess.

Ah yes Hunters ... welcome to the club.

Signed a Warlock... LOL

PS... happy that someone at blizz realized that if Lock DoTs needed to be nerfed then so did SW:P

I wouldn't get too cheery.
Looking at the changes to the Mage talents for Fireball and Frostbolt, it's not entirely unlikely that other cast time reducing talents might suffer the same fate. Including Bane.

Seeo

22-01-2007, 04:06 PM

Needed?

Holy crap man... needed is a friggin' joke.

Dutchgrass

22-01-2007, 04:09 PM

Needed?

Holy crap man... needed is a friggin' joke.

PvEwise, Hunters in my guild are doing extremely well on dps in the new 5 mans.

PvPwise, I guess you'd have to be on the recieving end of a Hunter and dying in 5 seconds to appreciate the slight imbalance with having high burst damage instants at 41 yards.

Did you really not see this coming after the latest nerfs to for instance Warlock and Paladin PvP damage?

Seeo

22-01-2007, 04:25 PM

But the thing is, Hunters DO have high burst damage, I admit, and I've taken down my fare share of people in under 5-6 seconds...

My point is, almost any class can do the same when jumping someone else that is either busy with someone else, or not paying attention.

Hunters have the lowest amount of mana... I'm talkin' in all mana users, hunters are THE lowest. We can sustain good burst damage, but like a cheetah, whom can run faster than my grandmas Gremlin, can't run forever, and same with hunters... I go OOM faster than any other class, period. So with such low mana, doesn't it make sense to give our attacks more power?

So they nerf my damage, and with low mana already... this should make hunters even more welcome in pugs... not that I'm complaining, cuz I only do guild-only teams... but for instance:

"Hunter LFT Ramparts"
*waits 20 seconds*
"Hunter LFT Ramparts"
*waits 1 min*
"Warlock LFT Ramparts"
/someonewhispers within 10 seconds
"k we're dropping a hunter for you, get ready for an invite"

I see this kinda stuff happening... I'm not a visionary or anything, but I can just see it.

I mean... add it up... they took away 45% damage (not DPS and not pure damage).

Silencing Shot: -25%
Arcane Shot Base Damage: -9%
Arcane Shot RAP scaling: -5%
Barrage: -3%
Imp Barrage: -3%

Thats a whopping 45% right there.

ALREADY that BM Hunters are outdamaging MM Hunters (shouldn't it be the other way around???? MM = Raiding, BM = Questing?) they are comprimising our very tree that we put all our freakin' points into to GET this kind of damage... I mean, yeah, be different if we could do it without spending so much! But a FRIGGIN' 41 POINT TALENT!? Wow!! Nerf nerf nerf.... whine whine whine...

What the hell is the use of an MM hunter now?? We get outdamaged, we run out of mana faster than any other mana user, our pet isn't as good, we get unneeded nerfs, even our pets get nerfed, dash and charge share the same cooldown... this is huge man... Especially when I see a mage slaughter a Helboar in 3-4 shots, but yet, it takes me longer, and on top of that, I'm the one getting nurfed.

Oatmealsmurf

22-01-2007, 04:42 PM

I didn't see you complaining about the nerfs to locks and pallys. LOL... Funny how things change when it hits home. I think once you get over your initial rage though you'll see that things aren't so bad. Now that I've gone up a few levels and have some of the new spells for instance... I understand exactly why DoTs were nerfed for locks.

And if you didn't see this coming then you really need to get your eyes checked.

Oh and for the record... they can nerf Bane all they want... I don't have a single point in destruction and incinerate is a 2.5 second base casting time. :P

EphemeralIntelligence

22-01-2007, 04:56 PM

Love the mathematics with the 45% damage lost there. Really makes me happy to see WoW players (especially hunters) on the ball as usual.

Silencing Shot is a very nice skill without even doing any damage and as it's 41 point talent it should do some, but it shouldn't compete with your other damage spells in the respect as it has such a useful side-effect. Unstable Affliction on the other hand, another 41-pointer, has a side-effect that is hardly ever put to use (never, in my experience in PvE) and acts more as a deterrent (in PvP) and so it's damage output is very comparable to Corruption.

You owned before and you still own now. Same for warlocks. Stop ****ing whining and enjoy the game.

Dutchgrass

22-01-2007, 04:58 PM

Oh and for the record... they can nerf Bane all they want... I don't have a single point in destruction and incinerate is a 2.5 second base casting time. :P

I have 11, including 5/5 Bane, so shush! :grin:

Seeo

22-01-2007, 05:00 PM

I would never play a Pally, so I really couldn't care about them, not that I hate the class, I just hate plate.

Warlock nerf wasn't a teeth-kicker tho... You couldn't escape their DoTs... They got them on you, you were dead, period... unless you took a pot. Warlocks just had to spam their DoTs and the Tab Key... I think that's why we called you guys our Overlords right? lol...

Seriously... Aimed shot, one of our most useful shots at one time, is collecting dust now, I hardly ever use it, so that's a nerf, it's not worthy of putting in the shot rotation, unless your Arcane has 3 seconds left and you just used Multishot... and even then, it resets your auto-shot, so that's no good. Oh yay, I got Steady shot, just another shot to "weave" into my rotation... it's rediculous... just in the past month, I feel the hunter class isn't the same class anymore.

What are we there for? Minor CC, Safe DPS (A. that will get nurfed & B. Is less than Warlocks and Mages and Rogues.) and off tanking with our nurfed pets.

I'm sure this is the initial rage speaking... but sometimes it's that rage that really means something, and after you've "dealt" with it, it's because you've lost hope and have now become a "push-over" because, lets face it, we have no control over the situation unless we gather an entire class community to cry about "someone elses" nice abilities.

moopy

22-01-2007, 05:02 PM

Paladin PvP damage?

*giggle* That's a good one.

Seeo

22-01-2007, 05:05 PM

Love the mathematics with the 45% damage lost there. Really makes me happy to see WoW players (especially hunters) on the ball as usual.
WOW j00 eAR TEH SMatesTS !!

:)_ *droolz*

Holy crap... open your damn eyes and ready what I wrote... I said 45% damage (NOT DPS AND NOT PURE DAMAGE) <--- caps so you see it this time.

Basically globally getting hit for a total of 45% here and there in damage. I'm not saying at the end of a raid my damage will have been nurfed by 45%.

BTW My above post was not ill-will or anything, I'm just a very expressive person.

BLAWL.

Oatmealsmurf

22-01-2007, 05:27 PM

And people were saying the same thing about Hunters... as for DoTs killing you that's all an affliction lock SHOULD need to kill you. That's how they are played... they don't use nukes. DoTs leaving you when the locks die is stupid.. it's not a channeled spell. We don't lose Serpentsting, Moonefire, SWP, poisons, hamstring, wingclip, huntersmark (you get the picture). DoTs should be no different.

Just prepare for them. I keep powerful antivenom to deal with mind numbing or crippling poison... and free action pots to get away from hamstring cuncussive shot and wing clip, carry purification pots to remove your DoTs... or sit down and eat if you can. DoTs are the whole point of affliction spec.

swaldman

22-01-2007, 05:31 PM

*giggle* That's a good one.

:grin: It is now.

Actually for PvP it always was... but for PvE...

In the interval between 2.0.1 and 2.0.5, dps-specced paladins were kinda scary. I tried it for a bit and I was usually beating hunters in damage, and sometimes equalling dps warriors & rogues in similar gear. At least for a little while before I went OOM :tongue: Plus I could still heal, and wear plate...

Nerfing that was fair enough really, but it was fun for a few weeks :-)

Seeo

22-01-2007, 05:44 PM

Ok lets just clarify 1 little thing, I didn't say that the DoTs should leave once they die... that'd just be stupid. I personally love sitting in the GY as a ghost, but getting the killing blow off someone who just died, same for my hunter with SerpSting, which is far less common, but still happens.

All I'm trying to say is this... Yeah, we have huge motherload of upfront uncooldowned damage, we're hunters. We have low mana, we have a dead zone, people should use their brain and stop complaining... Hunters SHOULD be able to devistate a target from 41 yards away... that's our job, just like a Rogue stunlocks me and turns me into confetti. Do I cry nerf? Ever? Hell no! Do I say... well stunlock is overpowered... BLIZZ NEEDS TO NERF IT BY 45%... no, I let them have their stupid stunlock and their stupid kill. Then I come back and pick'em off from 41.

Xmcdaniel

22-01-2007, 05:50 PM

This is great now the WSG and AB damage board won't look like this:

Hunter 80,000
Hunter 75,000
Hunter 70,000
Hunter 65,000
Hunter 60,000
Mage 35,000

moopy

22-01-2007, 05:56 PM

:
In the interval between 2.0.1 and 2.0.5, dps-specced paladins were kinda scary. I tried it for a bit and I was usually beating hunters in damage, and sometimes equalling dps warriors & rogues in similar gear. At least for a little while before I went OOM :tongue: Plus I could still heal, and wear plate...

Sorry, as much as I like you, I still can't agree meekly, your hunters must have needed a severe l2p session, or possibly rerolled as murlocs. Retri ROFLdins and the like have and always will be a joke- they are lowend pinch tanks if they have to be, otherwise they are a support unit, the only other option is "deluded". During 2.0.1-2.0.5, hunters were stronger than ever- meaning I didn't need to use pots to blow past the other DPS classes stacked up on every elixir that they could get their hands on. DPS-specced pally is the mark of a waste of kidneys, always will be. Every single one that you see boasting and spamming general channels about their pwnage mysteriously has an excuse when they can't deliver after you ask them for a demonstration. Phase of the moon, time of the month, wrong sort of mobs, lag, you name it.

Now, newly-buffed feral druids, they are something else.. just plain awesome.. Watching a friend of mine playing her druid, going from kitty form DPS (leaving me for dead, nerf naxx gear and extreme skill!) to caster to innervate the priest, then to STORNG BAER DURID to pick up and lock down a boss after the warrior died (damn silencing mobs attacking healers) all in the blink of an eye.. Just wow. No plate-wearing bubble boy would ever come remotely close. That's a proper hybrid.

Fursphere

22-01-2007, 06:01 PM

Representing my hopes... it's really f'd up that they just keep nerfing the s*** out of my fav. class...

Yeah, whining pays off... cuz if this is real then yeah, blizz needs to grow a frickin' brain and stop changing stuff around. Every patch they change something... it's like as if they have no clue what they're doing, but doing it anyways.

Please don't cry too much.

Signed

Warrior
Nerfed just about every single patch since 1.0

I have a 60 hunter as well, with tier 1/2 gear (junk now, I know).

When 2.0 hit, and I respec'd my Hunter with 41 point talents, I was like "wow, this needes to be nerf'd badly"... as I proceeded to go to BGs and whoop up on other classes. Since the pet's got a HUGE buff in 2.0, instead of the pet being a liability, its a damage machine.

The only other class that was more overpowered was warlocks IMO. (which I have a 61 lock now...). Another class that is too easy to play. Same feelings for locks as I have fun hunters.

Fun to play, but too damn easy. Might as well roll a Pally and bubble hearth at the first sign of trouble... hehehe j/k I <3 all you Pallys out there, really.

Oatmealsmurf

22-01-2007, 06:09 PM

Locks don't get credit for a KB when they die before the DoTs deliver the final damage. Besides KBs are worthless.

And for the love of god quit throwing around that 45% number... that isn't even close to accurate. Adding percents together when they don't apply unviserally is ridiculously misleading. Overall you're probably looking at about a 5% overall damage nerf.

Seeo

22-01-2007, 06:36 PM

I know it's only a 5% nerf to overall damage. I'm not and I repeat NOT saying our overall damage nerf is ~45%.

Are you telling me you don't get KB if your DoT ticks someone to death while you're sitting in the GY? That's strange, because Hunters do, I have the kill notifier mod, along with the AEmotes, and if I'm not mistaken, my twink lock does too, but I'll have to check that out, it might be new...

I agree, KB's are worthless, although they aren't so worthless when you have AEmotes... with all the unreal tournament announcer soundpacks, good for puttin' a smile on the ol' kisser.

Anyhow, this isn't about PvP, this is about patch notes, and how they piss me off.

swaldman

22-01-2007, 06:47 PM

Sorry, as much as I like you, I still can't agree meekly, your hunters must have needed a severe l2p session, or possibly rerolled as murlocs.

*shrug* Maybe. All in high-end blues, if this matters.

DPS-specced pally is the mark of a waste of kidneys, always will be.

dps aside, it's handy to have one in a raid group these days - they can give *everybody* an extra 3% to crit on their target :smiley:

But otherwise... well, I must admit that I didn't like the dps spec for any more than a short-term "holiday", since I felt that I was a little pointless to a 5-man - there is never a shortage of dps classes, wheras healers or tanks can be hard to come by. I'm busy tanking the early expansion 5-mans now :-)

Fursphere

22-01-2007, 06:56 PM

My brother, after wanting to DPS with his Paladin, decided there was only one way he'd ever be able to DPS...

... he went back to his 60 mage, and got tired of being pigeon holed into a heal bot, then players getting upset when he wasn't holy spec'd.

He had a brief period where he wanted to tank too. He found that a feral spec'd druid was a better tank than he could ever be. (He rolled up to a 59 druid to learn this... lol )

I lmao when he told me this. :)

CorinthianSC

22-01-2007, 07:18 PM

Looks like I'm staying BM indefinitely. I've tanked a couple 5-mans with my pet, while still doing respectable DPS. But I can't touch a mage on output anymore.

Looks like I'm destined to be the tranq/misdirection ***** in raiding.

Fursphere

22-01-2007, 07:31 PM

I've brought up this arguent with a few people before.

A hunter is what, ranged dps with tranq shot right?

If you take tranq shot away, what is a hunter? ranged dps?

Mage, Warlock, and even Shadow Priest are much better choices for ranged DPS, as far as raids go.

In 5 mans, traps used to be useful, but I'm finding they break all the time now in BC instaces, even with imp. traps. pet can offtank, a little. So thats usefull.

But as far as raiding goes, if the new 25 man stuff doesn't require tranq shot or silencing shot, hunters might start losing raid spots to higher dps classes.

CorinthianSC

22-01-2007, 07:39 PM

But as far as raiding goes, if the new 25 man stuff doesn't require tranq shot or silencing shot, hunters might start losing raid spots to higher dps classes.

Hunters have two things going for them:

1) Decent DPS with a full aggro wipe every 30-seconds.

2) Misdirection.

I dunno if tranq will be utilized, but I would be suprised if no new bosses frenzy.

Fursphere

22-01-2007, 07:44 PM

Is tranq a trainable skill now?

SmokeThizzle

22-01-2007, 07:50 PM

bull dude thats lame i cant believed they nerf hunters agian

Fursphere

22-01-2007, 07:54 PM

Oatmealsmurf

22-01-2007, 08:15 PM

I am betting that we'll have a lot of aggro dumping bosses and misdirection will be a key skill for raids. I would not replace hunters because they do very good ranged dps and they are not as mana reliant. You are also forgetting about pulling capabilites. Yes technically they aren't needed but having hunters to pull... especially on pulls like Domo and Sulfuron it is nice to have a hunter to pull for each tank... sure makes life easier.

CorinthianSC

22-01-2007, 08:28 PM

I'm loving how al these hunters completely ignore the major BUFFS hunter have gotten since the original launch.

The original talent overhaul was a huge buff.

Then 2.0 41 point talents were a buff.

Now they getting a little nerf, and they're crying foul.

Gimme a break.

The original Talent revamp didn't touch MM hunters really. It just made BM and Survival usable. Even after that, MM was king for damage until you have enough Agi for Lightening Reflexes to count.

2.0 was a DPS nerf for hunters. Taking Aimed out of the shot rotation without replacing it with Steady Shot killed a major source of our sustained damage output. This is ignoring the increased mana usage, which killed our sustainability. Pets got buffed, but they were laughable before. We gained some significant burst damage potential, but our sustained DPS was still nerfed.

Now? Steady Shot is my new bread and butter for DPS. I wouldn't use Silencing in a shot rotation anymore, and most bosses are immune to silence. Worthless for raiding. Because of the cast timer on Steady, Arcane and Multi shot are relegated to utility shots. They're used when needed, not as part of a rotation.

With these changes, I dunno if marksman is the spec for Raiding anymore. At least the scaling of Steady didn't get nerfed, so there is still hope. All those RAP bonuses + Concussive Barrage might be worth it. But it's not nearly as obvious a choice as it used to be.

Fursphere

22-01-2007, 09:43 PM

Now? Steady Shot is my new bread and butter for DPS. I wouldn't use Silencing in a shot rotation anymore, and most bosses are immune to silence. Worthless for raiding. Because of the cast timer on Steady, Arcane and Multi shot are relegated to utility shots. They're used when needed, not as part of a rotation.

With these changes, I dunno if marksman is the spec for Raiding anymore. At least the scaling of Steady didn't get nerfed, so there is still hope. All those RAP bonuses + Concussive Barrage might be worth it. But it's not nearly as obvious a choice as it used to be.

Have you raided in BC? I'm thinking sliencing shot works on new bosses.

Everythought about why the class gets all these claimed "nerfs"? Maybe trying to thin out the class of all the "AFK AUTO SHOT" players in raids? :)

I raided playing a hunter, and it was dreadfully boring. Then I went to BGs with 41 pnt talents and killed everything in sight. You can call it a 2.0 a DPS nerf all you want, but I know that I was tearing it up.

I also had good gear too, so its possible that the gear made up for it.

But if you're a hunter in all greens / assorted blues (pre-bc!) and you're crying about "not enough dps"... NO KIDDING! Get out and get yourself some gear.

41 point talents were designed about BC quality gear, I assure you.

Seeo

22-01-2007, 09:56 PM

Then 2.0 41 point talents were a buff.
Ooooh

Aaaah

Wait a second...

Everyone has 41 point talents!

Not everone has been nerfed (in the patch notes, and silently) every patch since 1.8 :) excluding 2.0.

Basically, every single class has gone through a talent revamp, so that's not a buff...

Everyone got 41 point talents... so that's not a buff either.

Face it, these are un-needed nurfs... honestly, it's just giving people even less reason to bring hunters (again, not my guild) but in general, I'd hate to be part of PuG guild or a guildless hunter...

"Gimme a break".

I'm honestly going to take a stab at this... but seriously... this is rediculous... MM has always been, and should always remain the raiding spec... all of a sudden blizz wants to change this? Make us spend our gold so we can have but a SMALL use in raids?

There's whining today, but you are bound to hear 1000 times more until the patch comes out. And then 1000 times more than that.

Fursphere

22-01-2007, 10:02 PM

I think you either need to:

A) Take a long break from WoW.

or

B) Roll a new, overpowered class. I hear Warlocks are pretty overpowered these days, even with the recent nerf to DoT spell dmg buffs.

Speaking of overpowered, My 62 Warrior, in outland blues and gears, with ~6k armor (2hander out) and ~5K HP, got TWO SHOTTED by a balance druid last night.

Moonfire (I think that's what its called? the big white light thing) hit me twice, and I was dead. It was like Crit for 2800, Crit for 2500 in the combat log.

So now that I think about it, you should roll a balance druid.

Valas Azuviir

22-01-2007, 10:02 PM

Fursphere

22-01-2007, 10:17 PM

I've played a hunter since one month after launch.

Sure, they nerfed the +agility attack power bonus in 2.0. They also added a lot more DPS to end game ranged weapons. So that "nerf" was a wash.

The only nerf I'm still PO'd about is taking away the ability to use shields.

Lets look at it this way.

BM and Survival prior to talent redo were a complete joke, I agree. Then BM Pets were WTF Pwning classes in BGs, so they go a little nerf to Dmg output, which was completely warranted, much like the very recent felguard dmg nerf.

Once the talents got "fixed", all was well.

2.0 majorly FIXED pets in general, along with new abilites and cures to other annoyances.

- Wyvern sting in combat. BUFF
- Traps in combat. BUFF
- End game ranged weapons DPS upped. BUFF
- Silencing shot, the anti-caster weapon. BUFF
- Seperating Arcane and Aimed shot timers, while MAJORLY upping Arcane dmg. BUFF

I mention silicening shot because its more than just a 41 pnt talent. Its an anti caster weapon, and its a fix for pulling mobs in instaces. Its a huge buff to the class as a whole.

Arcane shot used to be "HAHA, what a joke!", now its crits for 800+.

And what about the ability that gives a chance for auto-shot the ability to daze the target? Wow, another BUFF.

Ambros

22-01-2007, 10:34 PM

why does everyone always have to complain about classes and dps and want other classes nerfed, all the classes have spells and abilities that are needed for pve and raids and instances.
If they continue to nerf all the classes.. it only hurts everyone in the end.. when you are trying to raid or do instances or even do elite quest mobs in a group... pvp should not be a determing factor in anything. everyone dies in pvp battlegrounds, constantly, thats what they are there for ... to kill each other..pvp is only an minor aspect of the game... the major aspect of the game is questing, leveling, raiding, grouping , etc.. if they continue to nerf classes.. it will become harder and harder to do those things successfully.and will increase frustration levels on everyone's part.

Fursphere

22-01-2007, 10:39 PM

sqchram

22-01-2007, 10:48 PM

Tanitha

22-01-2007, 10:56 PM

OUt of curiosity - isn't Hunter the most played class of all? Why would that be?

Fursphere

22-01-2007, 11:00 PM

OUt of curiosity - isn't Hunter the most played class of all? Why would that be?

I was trying to point this out without outright saying it. :)

CorinthianSC

22-01-2007, 11:02 PM

If you can come up with an answer to this question, that fits every scenario, every class, etc, you need to apply at Blizzard;

How do you balance 9 classes (with three unique class trees each) for PvE and PvP gameplay at the same time?

You don't. This game isn't balanced for 1vs1. Bliz has stated such repeatedly. The game is balanced around GROUP pvp and pve.

That's why I was sick of all the 'OMG HUNTARZ ARE OP' coming from mages. Yes, we can rip through cloth like it's toilet paper. Mages can do the same to plate.

That being said, the numbers on Arcane Blast and Ice Lance scare the crap out of me.

Valas Azuviir

22-01-2007, 11:02 PM

I've played a hunter since one month after launch.

Sure, they nerfed the +agility attack power bonus in 2.0. They also added a lot more DPS to end game ranged weapons. So that "nerf" was a wash.

a) The Quiver/Ammo pouch "fix". Turned out that they were giving out twice the amount of speed as they were supposed to, so this was fixed. The fact that ranged weaponry had been subsequently built around these speeds, meant a serious dps decrease, said decrease has only recently been dealt with, since roughly the introduction of v2.0.x

b) Aspect of the Hawk hotfix. Did you never wonder, why nearly every class can get buffs for what they do, except for Hunters? Warriors, Shamans, Paladins, Rogues and Druids need a buff for their Melee AP, not a problem. Warlocks, Priests, Mages, Druids need a buff for their spellcrit and/or damage. Not an issue.. Hunters??

Take a looksee at the blessings given after handing in Onyxia's head and Neferian's head. They don't apply to Hunters.

Anyway, it's a bug that still exists. Causes set bonusses not to kick in after zoning. Some Hunters found out a way to exploit it and cause a number loop, going from negative values to never decreasing positive values. Rather than fixing the bug, Blizzard just made it impossible for Hunters to get buffs to their RAP. (Saw a couple posts here, I think it was the Paladin's forum, where some folks ran into the self same bug. That was as recent as 1.12.2 iirc)

c) Gee, Hunters tame pets. Who would've thunk it.
Lupos, Spire Spiderlings, Takk the Leaper and the list goes on.
All critters that Hunters tamed. All got altered, sometimes even without considering what said alterations of the wild variant would do to the already tamed versions. (All changed without mention in patch notes as well)

d) And let's not even get into the near riot, which had to be started, when they tried to convince the Hunter community, that their shots had always been subject to block, miss, parry, deflect and a couple of other terms. That would be around June 2005. Too folks showing movies from both Test and Live servers to show them that they were fibbing. Still, they tried to sneak it onto Live, saying that it couldn't be fixed until after it was implemented. That the patch was too important bla bla bla. Seem to recall it took two board crashes to convince them that this might not be a wise move afterall.

Like I said, eventually the Hunter (and Warlock, that too was a right royal mess) got some tlc. These changes might be needed, but as someone who's paid close attention to the(se) class(ses) since OB to release and beyond, it's still not something that I enjoy seeing.

(Same really with the paladins, one week to test a new fighting system (seal-dancing) is just not enough, and it having been tested enough by Blizzard themselves, sorry, don't buy that, considering the issues still being reported by Pallies.)

EphemeralIntelligence

22-01-2007, 11:05 PM

WOW j00 eAR TEH SMatesTS !!

:)_ *droolz*

Holy crap... open your damn eyes and ready what I wrote... I said 45% damage (NOT DPS AND NOT PURE DAMAGE) <--- caps so you see it this time.

Basically globally getting hit for a total of 45% here and there in damage. I'm not saying at the end of a raid my damage will have been nurfed by 45%.

BTW My above post was not ill-will or anything, I'm just a very expressive person.

BLAWL.

45% of WHAT, exactly? Percentage implies part of something that comes as a whole. I didn't mean DPS or PURE DAMAGE either, I was pointing out that 45% doesn't appear anywhere, ever, in any changes they've made and simply adding together numbers which aren't relevently or linearly associated at all is just flawed.

Back to the topic at hand and as an Affliction warlock I do well against all hunters but Beast Mastery who hit that bloody fear immunity shizet (THAT needs some fiddling with). Also, Fury warriors give me trouble, along with the odd rogue who can pull off a perfect stunlock (otherwise they get iHoT'd and kited to death). Every class has it's weaknesses and strengths and you can't expect to own every class with yours. Hunters were pumping out a bit too much damage, so they've been brought back in line. That's all and it's bleeding obvious.

CorinthianSC

22-01-2007, 11:17 PM

- Wyvern sting in combat. BUFF
- Traps in combat. BUFF
- End game ranged weapons DPS upped. BUFF
- Silencing shot, the anti-caster weapon. BUFF
- Seperating Arcane and Aimed shot timers, while MAJORLY upping Arcane dmg. BUFF

I mention silicening shot because its more than just a 41 pnt talent. Its an anti caster weapon, and its a fix for pulling mobs in instaces. Its a huge buff to the class as a whole.

Arcane shot used to be "HAHA, what a joke!", now its crits for 800+.

And what about the ability that gives a chance for auto-shot the ability to daze the target? Wow, another BUFF.

We're talking about two different facets of the class. PVP/PVE. I am looking at this from a PVE perspective. Lets look at that list again:

-Wyvern Sting in combat: Useless for PvE. PvP buff.
-Traps in Combat: VERY limited utility in pre-expansion instances. PvP buff only.
-Ranged weapon DPS increase: Not a buff. Washes with the Agi nerf.
-Silencing Shot: Most instance mobs are immune. VERY mana inefficient. PvP Buff only really.
-Separating Arcane and Aimed timers: Aimed is only good for an opener. Useless in a shot rotation. Timer change just allows for opening burst damage. PvP Buff.
-Arcane Shot damage increase: PVP wise, big buff. PVE? It washes with the Aimed Shot nerf.
-Concussive Barrage: At 2.0? PvP buff only. With Steady Shot, it may have some PvE value.

I can tell you from personal experience that the 2.0 patch DECREASED my sustained damage potential both in the DPS sustained, and the mana efficiency of my shot rotation. Lower top-end + More downtime = nerf. In return we got significant burst damage and PvP viability.

Jury is still out on viability post 60, btw.

Fursphere

22-01-2007, 11:21 PM

b) Aspect of the Hawk hotfix. Did you never wonder, why nearly every class can get buffs for what they do, except for Hunters? Warriors, Shamans, Paladins, Rogues and Druids need a buff for their Melee AP, not a problem. Warlocks, Priests, Mages, Druids need a buff for their spellcrit and/or damage. Not an issue.. Hunters??

Take a looksee at the blessings given after handing in Onyxia's head and Neferian's head. They don't apply to Hunters.

Anyway, it's a bug that still exists. Causes set bonusses not to kick in after zoning. Some Hunters found out a way to exploit it and cause a number loop, going from negative values to never decreasing positive values. Rather than fixing the bug, Blizzard just made it impossible for Hunters to get buffs to their RAP. (Saw a couple posts here, I think it was the Paladin's forum, where some folks ran into the self same bug. That was as recent as 1.12.2 iirc)

In 2.0, Blessing of Might (pally buff) increase RAP. Don't Shammys also have a +agility totem they can drop down? +agility directly buffs hunters as well.

c) Gee, Hunters tame pets. Who would've thunk it.
Lupos, Spire Spiderlings, Takk the Leaper and the list goes on.
All critters that Hunters tamed. All got altered, sometimes even without considering what said alterations of the wild variant would do to the already tamed versions. (All changed without mention in patch notes as well

I'm not sure how to answer this one. Call the whambulance? Even with the pet nerfs, I still feel overpowered, as a hunter who knows how to play his class.

Now, for pet abilities, I feel that Blizzard is seriously lacking there. But still, I've never had a problem with my pet. And I've been killed by plenty of BM Frenzied pets. O.o

And the "block miss parry" issue. While this may seem like a nerf, its a fix. Even with this change, hunters were topping the DPS meters in raids and in BGs.

Why is that? OMG MY CLASS IS NERFED! (oh wait, I'm still wtfpwning everything... uh... uh.. I'M NERFED!!!) hehe, just playing there. :)

Oatmealsmurf

22-01-2007, 11:27 PM

For the record I'd take Onyxia's head reward for a Hunter any day before I'd take the reward for a DPS caster. I'd rather get the Onyxia hide backpack than Onyxia's head after a kill.

Anyway... bottomeline is Hunters are far from broken. People don't want you in groups when they don't know you because there are far too many hunters (especially alliance side NELF hunters) and thus far to many poorly played hunters. It has nothing to do with your ability to do damage... That's purely from having a bad rep.

Fursphere

22-01-2007, 11:29 PM

:
-Wyvern Sting in combat: Useless for PvE. PvP buff.

You can sleep a runner. You can sleep a mob beating on the priest. etc.

Trap one mob, sleep another. No PvE? huh?

-Traps in Combat: VERY limited utility in pre-expansion instances. PvP buff only.

Retrap in combat, I've seen a hunter do this four times in a row in Hellfire Ramparts. Same hunter was doing it in UBRS few weeks ago, and in Scholomace, and in BRD. Don't tell me no PvE here.

-Ranged weapon DPS increase: Not a buff. Washes with the Agi nerf.

Debatable, but I'll agree for now.

-Silencing Shot: Most instance mobs are immune. VERY mana inefficient. PvP Buff only really.

Old world or new world instances?

-Separating Arcane and Aimed timers: Aimed is only good for an opener. Useless in a shot rotation. Timer change just allows for opening burst damage. PvP Buff.

I don't agree.

-Arcane Shot damage increase: PVP wise, big buff. PVE? It washes with the Aimed Shot nerf.

ooook?

-Concussive Barrage: At 2.0? PvP buff only. With Steady Shot, it may have some PvE value.

Again, tag that runner. Slow down that mob chasing the priest. Slow down that mob chasing YOU. :) PvE Buff.

I can tell you from personal experience that the 2.0 patch DECREASED my sustained damage potential both in the DPS sustained, and the mana efficiency of my shot rotation. Lower top-end + More downtime = nerf. In return we got significant burst damage and PvP viability.

Jury is still out on viability post 60, btw.

5-mans is all about burst damage. Kill it fast. Then the mage drinks. You can drink too during this time. ;)

And we haven't see lvl 70 end game gear yet. 41 point tree were built with lvl 70 gear in mind. Don't forget about that.

Fursphere

22-01-2007, 11:51 PM

This was posted over on the hunter forum, about the 2.0.6 patch....

You cruel cruel man....

I will say that the patch/nerf is making me think more and more about going to survival for the bag of tricks. Yes dps will be gimped some, but I will be critting all day long, regening my mana, exposing weakness, sleeping adds and slash readinessing unsuspecting gankers.

Has anyone given survival a spin now? I think its like the frost mage of hunter builds. Cmon someone has to have tried it (I havent since my days of 0/21/30)

best.idea.ever :)

Valas Azuviir

23-01-2007, 12:05 AM

In 2.0, Blessing of Might (pally buff) increase RAP. Don't Shammys also have a +agility totem they can drop down? +agility directly buffs hunters as well.

Keep in mind, that I'm talking about the entire time span up to the point where we are now. Not just where the Hunter stands now.

The Grace of Air totem was one of the few buffs that we could get during that timespan, and even then considering the numbers we dealt with at the time. 54 agi = 1 crit for the Hunter, whereas say a rogue has something like iirc 21 agi = 1 crit. That still didn't cause the dps to go haywire.

BoM alterations is part of the post V2.0 stuff that I mentioned before in the tlc section.

Prior to the hotfix, Battleshout, BoM, Firewater and a couple of other items/spells/abilities all effected rap as well.

I'm not sure how to answer this one. Call the whambulance? Even with the pet nerfs, I still feel overpowered, as a hunter who knows how to play his class.

Now, for pet abilities, I feel that Blizzard is seriously lacking there. But still, I've never had a problem with my pet. And I've been killed by plenty of BM Frenzied pets. O.o

Like I said, looks like we're approaching it from two different angles. Prior to the Hunter talent revamp, any Hunter who didn't go MM, was essentially a few cards short of a full deck (and I was full BM at the time so that should say enough.) Pets were little more than a bump in the road, both in PvE and PvP. But that timeframe from release to said revamp was a loooooong period of time.

The good and great Hunters managed to adapt and even managed to get some decent results, even though the class was half broken at the time. But there's only so much you can do, when dealing with shoddy "equipment", that's why a lot of classes were in for a rude awakening, once the Hunter class got it's tlc. It was the difference between sticking Dale Earnhardt Sr. in a normal family car and a stock car. The fact that the other classes had been driving stock cars all the time was/is glossed over.

And the "block miss parry" issue. While this may seem like a nerf, its a fix. Even with this change, hunters were topping the DPS meters in raids and in BGs.

Uhm.. It wasn't implemented. They kept everything as it is now, if it had been implemented, it would've cost you roughly between 25 to 33% of your dps, if I remember the mathwork done back then, correctly.

Why is that? OMG MY CLASS IS NERFED! (oh wait, I'm still wtfpwning everything... uh... uh.. I'M NERFED!!!) hehe, just playing there. :)

Like I said, these latest changes may very well have been necessary. It's been a while since I've taken my Hunter for a spin, so I can't say either way if it's justified or not. I'm just saying that on a personal level, considering what I know the class has gone through from Open Beta to now.. Such changes do not put a smile on my face. I remember the whack of the nerf stick, I remember the other class forums making bets as to what part of the Hunter and Warlocks would get whacked next. I remember the outrage when those two classes finally got some tlc. Heck, about only two class communities were happy when the Hunters got some love, the Pallies and the Locks. The rest just found their free honour point reservoir going up in smoke.

So, why are there that many Hunters? Easy to solo. But solo'ing and group PvE or even PvP are completely different animals, no pun intended. Hence, why there are so many inept Hunters. Solo'd their way to 60, hardly done any instances, course at the time getting an invite to a pug for an instance as said class, also considering the broken nature.. eh.. Vicious Cycle.. *shrugs*

Things change, sometimes for the better, sometimes not.

For the record I'd take Onyxia's head reward for a Hunter any day before I'd take the reward for a DPS caster. I'd rather get the Onyxia hide backpack than Onyxia's head after a kill.

Was talking about the buffs, not the rewards. Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer. It's only fairly recent that it also gives +5% to crit for ranged attacks afaik.

Anyway... bottomeline is Hunters are far from broken. People don't want you in groups when they don't know you because there are far too many hunters (especially alliance side NELF hunters) and thus far to many poorly played hunters. It has nothing to do with your ability to do damage... That's purely from having a bad rep.

Already addressed that bit. And like I said, me and Fur are approaching this from two different angles. I'm talking about the entire timeframe leading up to now, which helped create the bad rep. He's talking about the here and now.

Xmcdaniel

23-01-2007, 12:10 AM

Face it, these are un-needed nurfs... honestly, it's just giving people even less reason to bring hunters (again, not my guild) but in general, I'd hate to be part of PuG guild or a guildless hunter...

"Gimme a break".

There's this other part of the game...the part that actually takes skill (except when it comes to Huntard). It's called PvP. And yes, the "nurf" was very much needed. Hunters were dominating PvP by a very, very large margin regardless of their skill level...and everyone knows this, except apparently you.

why does everyone always have to complain about classes and dps and want other classes nerfed, all the classes have spells and abilities that are needed for pve and raids and instances.
If they continue to nerf all the classes.. it only hurts everyone in the end.. when you are trying to raid or do instances or even do elite quest mobs in a group... pvp should not be a determing factor in anything. everyone dies in pvp battlegrounds, constantly, thats what they are there for ... to kill each other..pvp is only an minor aspect of the game... the major aspect of the game is questing, leveling, raiding, grouping , etc.. if they continue to nerf classes.. it will become harder and harder to do those things successfully.and will increase frustration levels on everyone's part.

This is COMPLETELY your opinion...I for one PvP 75% of the time in WoW and when, post-patch, I see Hunters all of a sudden populating 8 out of 10 spots with a couple warlocks thrown in on the damage meter, it pretty obvious they are overpowered and in need of a nerf. It's not like after December 6th or whatever, that all Hunters became skilled PvPers overnight...it was a joke and I'm glad it's fixed.

OUt of curiosity - isn't Hunter the most played class of all? Why would that be?

Guess what #2 is? LOL

Tanitha

23-01-2007, 12:28 AM

Guess what #2 is? LOL

I honestly have no idea. The sick twisted part inside me wants to say "Hunter" but that would just be wrong. Are you thinking Warlock? Or Rogue?

Valas Azuviir

23-01-2007, 12:34 AM

I'll just repeat myself here. There is NO NEED to post back to back within a 1 hour timeframe. You may edit your initial post up to then, so if you want to answer some more folks, then edit your post already and stick the alterations in.

Constantly having to merge posts, because folks are a) woefully ignorant of the rules, or b) just plum lazy, or even c) some option I can't think of right now, because I'm getting too irritable, are not conductive to my being in a good mood.

Seldom

23-01-2007, 12:44 AM

The base damage for "Arcane Shot" has been reduced by about 9% and the bonus damage from ranged attack power reduced from 20% to 15%.

Will they reduce the mana cost for Arcane Shot to balance out the damage nerf?

Dutchgrass

23-01-2007, 10:14 AM

Are you telling me you don't get KB if your DoT ticks someone to death while you're sitting in the GY? That's strange, because Hunters do, I have the kill notifier mod, along with the AEmotes, and if I'm not mistaken, my twink lock does too, but I'll have to check that out, it might be new...

We don't get honor for a dot killing someone while we're dead. I'd say that's a pretty big drawback.

UndeadRogue

23-01-2007, 10:19 AM

UndeadRogue

23-01-2007, 10:25 AM

CorinthianSC

23-01-2007, 03:47 PM

You can sleep a runner. You can sleep a mob beating on the priest. etc.

Trap one mob, sleep another. No PvE? huh?

It makes it impossible to CC the mob after the sting is up because of the DOT. Pre-BC it was useless in larger instances because of immunity/short duration. I was survival for a while before 2.0 and Wyvern just wasn't worth the talent point when raiding. (and I'm talking 25-40 man stuff)

I can't comment on it's utility in BC, because I don't have it.

Retrap in combat, I've seen a hunter do this four times in a row in Hellfire Ramparts. Same hunter was doing it in UBRS few weeks ago, and in Scholomace, and in BRD. Don't tell me no PvE here.

It's unreliable CC. They break before your cooldown is up, so there is a period where the mob is beating on things. FD/Trap achieved the same thing, so we didn't gain much besides making it easier to use.

Debatable, but I'll agree for now.

It's the stated reason for the weapon DPS increase.

Old world or new world instances?

Speaking in context of the 2.0.0 patch. So Old World instances.

I don't agree.

We can now Aimed/Arcane with no cooldown in between. Thats opening burst damage. Considering how you use auto-shot damage when trying to use Aimed in a rotation, there's not much point to using Aimed again. Unlinked cooldowns don't matter much after the start of the fight.

ooook?

Take Aimed Shot out of your shot rotation, Put Arcane Shot in your shot rotation. Sustained DPS decreased slightly, because Arcane still doesn't hit as hard as Aimed. On it's own, Arcane got a major buff. But it didn't buff our sustainable DPS at all.

Again, tag that runner. Slow down that mob chasing the priest. Slow down that mob chasing YOU. :) PvE Buff.

Pray it procs when the mob runs? I'd rather hit him with Conc shot. I can rely on that.

5-mans is all about burst damage. Kill it fast. Then the mage drinks. You can drink too during this time. ;)

I'm talking about sustained DPS. Not short fights. After 2.0 I could blow my entire bar, drink to full, and blow it all again before Sons spawned on Rag. And I was barely keeping up with my pre-patch DPS.

And we haven't see lvl 70 end game gear yet. 41 point tree were built with lvl 70 gear in mind. Don't forget about that.

Agreed. Which is why I was commenting in the context of when the patch was released.

Dutchgrass

23-01-2007, 04:20 PM

I do wish they give your class a break though, seems you're anxious to get one. And let's see how much you're liking it then.

You're kidding right?
Hunters get slight tweaks to their damage output and you act as if the world is about to end. :rolleyes:

Fursphere

23-01-2007, 06:23 PM

It makes it impossible to CC the mob after the sting is up because of the DOT. Pre-BC it was useless in larger instances because of immunity/short duration. I was survival for a while before 2.0 and Wyvern just wasn't worth the talent point when raiding. (and I'm talking 25-40 man stuff)

I can't comment on it's utility in BC, because I don't have it.

I'll agree in raids. Old world raid instances pretty much made hunters go "why did blizzard give me all these tools that I'm not allowed to use". But now you're asking Blizzard to design the game around 10% of the WoW population. (the portion that actually raided MC, BWL, AQ40, Naxx). The game is designed for the other 90% of the population. Don't be upset that you're in the minority.

But for 5,10 mans... (and ZG, not sure about AQ20...)

Imp. Wing Clip. Put on Aspect of Monkey, spam wing clip until it procs. Blow deterance if you need too, and use counterstrike.

Hunters wear mail Use it. :)

Hunters have so many tools available to them, that nobody seems to use.

Then only spec I haven't really tried out is BM. I would think a frenzied pet would offtank a mob while the hunter gets to safe range though.

As a hunter, in UBRS, during the harder trash pulls leading up to Drakk, I could easily take two mobs and kite, clip, trap, etc, over and over again until the rest of the group was ready to deal with them. I didn't do much damage to them, but I kept them occupied the entire time, buying time for the group.

I've done the same in DM:W and BD Strat if the need was present.

Fear My Mongoose Bite! :laughing:

PS: All this talk about Hunters and they're bag of tricks is making me want to dust of mine. O.o But the idea of being pidgeon holded into the "hunters are nubzors" again bothers me, simply because there are so many freakin hunters out there, and the majority of them have no idea how to play thier class.

Guess I'll stick to tanking on the Warrior for now, and listen to Pallies and Druids talk about how they can out-tank me. /sigh

:)

PPS: The damage "nerf" to silencing shot is laughable. I'd still use it with ZERO damage. The silencing effect alone is worth it.

Ever played a Protection Warrior with Imp. Sheild Slam? (2/2). It does like.. uh. 20 or so dmg. But silences the target for a short time. That alone is worth the effect and talent points, if you're going down that tree.