AB Mine Vs. Lumber Mill

[nocandyforu]

Why do the Alliance continue to rush the mine? From my point of view I would say the Lumber Mill is a more stratigic point. The mine is in a vally where you can be hit from all sides execpt from the east. (I know it's a big drop but the enemy still survives it.) Lumber Mill, on the other hand, It's a cliff going up, thus you only have to defend two points. So why rush the Mine?:ponder: :listen:

[ShawnHeat]

I always go for the LM for the exact reason you mentioned....its more practical to make yourself harder to hit.

I've noticed that the Alliance players often dont play as a team, and arent always on the same page.Its very frustrating!

[JudgeDredd]

One plus for having the mine is that you can move on stables or farm without being seen for much of the time.

[lawry]

My AB experience on alliance says that horde usually goes for LM hard not long after the match starts. I think right after the match starts, horde goes for Farm + Blacksmith, while alliance goes for Stables + LM/Mines. However, of the times that I go to LM 50% of the time there are 5-6 hordes going hard at it too. Whereas rarely do I see 5 alliance heading to LM. Alliance is always very scattered at the beginning of the game.

I'm not sure what happens on the horde side at the beginning (and may be someone can enlighten me on that), but on alliance, we usually break up into small groups, with about 3 people at Stables, 3 or 4 at LM. The rest likes to go mine (so you get about 5 or 6 people going mines) but sometimes it breaks up into 2 groups with half going mine and half going BS.

With such thin grouping it is no wonder that we get pwned by hordes. Hordes seem to have much tighter grouping, they attack in groups of 4-5 usually, sometimes even in groups of 6 (or was that just 3 hunters).

There are times when alliance have tight groupings too, but it tend to concentrate into a massive battle at the stables. Whenever we lose all 4 or 5 nodes, most people will respawn at the hall. Hordes will be smart and send 10 people to stables trapping the outflowing of alliance n00bs. While alliance is dumb enough to engage the welcoming party head on at stables... The consequence is of course, we lose the match because we can't get out of stables to capture nodes.

However the enlightened few will run away and ignore the fight at stables and cap the defenseless mine or farm or LM. If you are alliance then this is what you should do too. That's my 2 cent worth of advice.

Happy ABing.

[Felix Niebuhr]

The mine is also the "quiet" flag in the game. Its a good thing to have because its often just sits there and ticks in the points without too much defending having to be done.

People, not you ^^, often scream and shout to go after BS or LM in game, they have a tendency to forget that each flags earns exactly the same. Some seems to think they can win if they just hold the ST and the BS.

[Altaris]

IMX, as limited as it may be, Ally has won more often than not through this tactic... Assuming a full fifteen man PuG, one group each goes to ST, LM, and GM. Stand and hold the three while letting the Horde have Farm and BS. Harass the BS they the continually try to take ST, LM and GM. Have one or two people constantly try to ninja farm.

For what ever reason, Horde seems obsessed with taking the stables. Holding the LM and GM means you can constantly harass BS and Farm, and still reinforce the ST as needed.

So, again IMX, the effect throws off the Horde tactics. They assault ST, get rebuffed. While this is happening, they are losing Farm or BS, so the defenders and spawners run back to whichever we're taking atm and take it back. This alleviates their offensive pressure, gives our defenders time to heal and respawn. They assault another resource, and it happens all over again.

Sure, it is somewhat reactionary. But the effect is obvious. Once we have a good, solid lead, we start pushing a four cap and then a five cap. It really discourages the Hordies to /actually/ be losing an AB. :thumbsup:

Now, the disclaimer. I noticed this over the last couple of weeks in the 20's bracket. The times this tactic didn't work is when Horde grouped into major offensive teams and zergged, without worrying about defense at all.

So basically, I say take both! :grin: But personally, I go for LM most of the time.

[murderousmic]

What I have found works for alliance, which is like 1 out of 10, when I was battle master. I tell everyone to zerg (except for one guy to take stables), stay together and rush LM. Once we take LM, and like 4-6 horde down, leave a few at LM and semi-zerg rush BS.

3 people can defend LM because you can stand on that cliff peninsula thing and look over the road and actually attack from there. It's easy to defend. Plus once you get BS you have a really good position for defense and spawning.

That one time I was leader and we went with this plan, and people listened, we PWNED and took five nodes.

[Serven]

My thoughts are:

Blacksmith is most important; for strategic res and reinforcement.
Lumbermill is next; for the reasons outlined above.

However, this has to be balanced against what is most strongly and weakly held. If your entire opposition is sitting in BS then there is no point in assaulting it, instead you can take all the rest of the nodes with no problem.

Of course in the chaos of battle and disorganisation having that BS makes harassing and supporting other nodes much easier so it can be worth some effort to take. It is just something to develop a feel for with experience.

[Solarious]

IME (limited as it is), Horde (that's me! :wave: ) go for the Farm/BS/LM first. BS because of the strategic graveyard, and the LM for the view (you see them comming for a long time) and better defence (as discussed). Nearly every time I PuG AB, we stick to that basic strat, and win 90% of the time. The only time I see people seriously going after the Mines is when we're clearly superior and are trying to 5-cap them, or the group truly sucks and we can ninja it without a problem, or there are twinks stationed at the LM and defences at the Mines are weak.

LM also has the advantage of forcing your opponents to fight up, which is awkward on your view because you have to adjust your view when going up and after you get off the slope. It also makes it hard to see people who are further back, making you underestimate the forces stationed there, while in the Mines you can usually see the defenders clearly comming down (or even passing by from above).

[Richakin]

i know when i play no my alliance toons i always go for mines. theres been plenty of ABs when horde didn't even send anyone. Last nite in the 20-29 bracket 3 paladins went to Mines and the horde sent a druid, rogue, warlock...they got obliterated adn we took mines. We then let a lvl 21 Druid sit there and the rest of us went out and fought over farm and BS while we held LM/Stables...

i just dont see horde go for Mines much. Its like a 'free' spot and only needs 1 defender to let us know if they are attacking and we can send 2-3 to get it back asap usually.

LM is nice..specially when I play my priest and Mind Control people over the cliff :)

[Thumbtack]

I dont get why Alliance dont hit BS, rush Mine, never defend Stables.

They fking stupid if you ask me.

I know their reasoning behind it is.......

Mine is easy to take.
BS has too many horde
LM is always rushed.

Bunch of idiots. If your not willing to fight, dont Que up.

[swaldman]

I guess the blacksmith must be very important in pre-lvl 40 ABs, as it is a huge shortcut. I never played AB until I was in my 50s, so I never experienced it.

As far as I'm concerned, once everybody is mounted (and more so once most have epic mounts), that advantage isn't worth it, for two reasons:
a) The blacksmith is hard to defend
b) The horde in my battlegroup are obsessed with it.

I say let them have the BS, and just ride around it. Ideally capture the LM because then you can see half the map. You can see when the horde leaves the BS and where they're going (unless to the mine). You can actually see how many defenders there are at the BS, and whenever that number drops you can go and harass it.

[Thumbtack]

BS is actually easiest to defend, it also allows any other base around it easier to defend or access. You just cant have a stupid group with 10 people at the mine when the horde is attacking stables or the BS. No Alliance group will win without controlling BS unless you get one of those odd ball groups where Horde only control BS.

[swaldman]

BS is actually easiest to defend,

I disagree... you can either try to defend at the two bridges, in which case the two groups of defenders are out of line of sight of each other (and you're vulnerable to swimmers), or you can cluster around the flag, in which case the enemy can roam around the island as they like.

it also allows any other base around it easier to defend or access.

No. It makes it faster to reach the other bases from across the map (makes no difference to defending them once you get there), and this is why some people are obsessive about holding it. However on an epic mount it doesn't take all that long just to ride around the outside, hence my suggestion that the BS is very important before 40 and not all that important at 60+.

[Thumbtack]

But if its not important at 60+, why do Horde want it and always win with it?

[swaldman]

But if its not important at 60+, why do Horde want it and always win with it?

IME, on my battlegroup, teh horde always want it and the Alliance always spend all their time trying to take it off them.

In a few games where I have made my suggestions heard, we've let the horde have the BS since they want it so much, and taken the stables, the mine and the LM instead. SOmetimes the farm too :-)

[JudgeDredd]

I guess the blacksmith must be very important in pre-lvl 40 ABs, as it is a huge shortcut. I never played AB until I was in my 50s, so I never experienced it.

As far as I'm concerned, once everybody is mounted (and more so once most have epic mounts), that advantage isn't worth it, for two reasons:
a) The blacksmith is hard to defend
b) The horde in my battlegroup are obsessed with it.

I say let them have the BS, and just ride around it. Ideally capture the LM because then you can see half the map. You can see when the horde leaves the BS and where they're going (unless to the mine). You can actually see how many defenders there are at the BS, and whenever that number drops you can go and harass it.

I agree that pre-40, the BS is more important. Not having mounts makes its central location that much more valuable.

And it *should* be easy to defend but it rarely is. That problem usually seems to be that the defenders get split into two groups -- ones that allow themselves to get pulled away from the flag to fight and the ones that stay at the flag to prevent stealth and backdoor caps.

[moopy]

Personally, I hate the GM with a passion. Because it's in a hole in the ground (well, duh), it has poor visibility. It's easy for an attack group to swarm in before being spotted. LM not only is easier to hold due to the fact that you can see 'em coming, but you also get a vantage point to warn about attacks on farm, stables and BS.

Obviously, if the mine is available for an easy cap, take it and hold as long as you can, but don't gimp the defense of your three main nodes (BS, LM and stab/farm depending on faction).

[Thumbtack]

IME, on my battlegroup, teh horde always want it and the Alliance always spend all their time trying to take it off them.

In a few games where I have made my suggestions heard, we've let the horde have the BS since they want it so much, and taken the stables, the mine and the LM instead. SOmetimes the farm too :-)

But notice in these efforts while you can take all 4 surrounding, BS then has advantage point minutes in where they going to take something back, then focus a group going from BS to take Mine or LM, both wont be defended unless a bunch of alliance is at Stables. Then its horde controlling BS, LM or Mine, and Farm where as the alliance is trying to take these places back to control a 3rd and then your left with horde in the middle easily defending the triangle. In the end 90% of the time, Horde is winning AB because of the BS.

[swaldman]

But notice in these efforts while you can take all 4 surrounding, BS then has advantage point minutes in where they going to take something back, then focus a group going from BS to take Mine or LM, both wont be defended unless a bunch of alliance is at Stables. Then its horde controlling BS, LM or Mine, and Farm where as the alliance is trying to take these places back to control a 3rd and then your left with horde in the middle easily defending the triangle. In the end 90% of the time, Horde is winning AB because of the BS.

I'm not sure I quite follow... but if you're saying that the horde can rush any of the 3 or 4 before you can get a defense there... it's true, but not *that* true. With everybody on epic mounts you can usually get there and reclaim it before they capture it. Unless they've sent their entire force, in which case you just nip in and bag the blacksmith... which as the team is question is obsessive about the BS leads to them retreating from teh other node :-)

[chrimata]

again im going to say the LM is better because as my pally bubble+cliff=escape route where no one can follow (and live, I love it when they try) and as my hunter, eagle eye allows 2-3 hunters to see whats going on at the other nodes and report info to the rest of the group...and haha my favorite thing to do is position the eye over a flag and watch all the horde run around. Eagle eye causes a swirl on the ground identical to that which is on a flag when its being captured so i laugh as the horde waste area spells on the flag trying to find the invisible guy taking the flag as the alliance that theyre not watching sneak up behind them:idea:

[Xmcdaniel]

again im going to say the LM is better because as my pally bubble+cliff=escape route where no one can follow (and live, I love it when they try) and as my hunter, eagle eye allows 2-3 hunters to see whats going on at the other nodes and report info to the rest of the group...and haha my favorite thing to do is position the eye over a flag and watch all the horde run around. Eagle eye causes a swirl on the ground identical to that which is on a flag when its being captured so i laugh as the horde waste area spells on the flag trying to find the invisible guy taking the flag as the alliance that theyre not watching sneak up behind them:idea:

As a mage I slow fall after pallies and destroy them after their bubble expires when they bubble jump, unless there are more pressing matters at the LM.

[Ray Domkrat]

I'm a shaman engineer: parachute cloak and pwn bubble boy.

I also prefer LM to GM.

[Altaris]

I've often used the bubble + cliff trick, and have never had anyone follow in an intelligent fashion. I've had people jump off after me, just not with any form of intelligence.

I've also really annoyed a priest in the 39 bracket. He's one of those who just love to mind control people off the cliff. He tried it with me half a dozen times, and each time I just bubbled. By the time I got back up to the flag, bubble CD was back up.

[Oatmealsmurf]

Don't see how that's annoying the priest personally... you're the one wasting the whole time running up to the LM falling off and running back up again... he just MCs you a few seconds sends you packing and focusses on someone else LOL.

Swalde... you underestimate the importance of the BS even with epic mounts. All the best alliance groups I've played with send the majority of their force to BS and LM and then ride through to farm immediately after securing both. BS is very easy to defend... you can see people coming from whichever direction... The only decently sneaky approach is to come from the water on the GY side. But if you come front side through the water you're just going to be eaten alive. People always try it though... but if the BS defense is competant at all they will have seen you enter the water and will be expecting you.

[Altaris]

Don't see how that's annoying the priest personally... you're the one wasting the whole time running up to the LM falling off and running back up again... he just MCs you a few seconds sends you packing and focusses on someone else LOL.


I was able to keep him from capping the flag, which gave my allies time to respawn, which kept him from capping the flag, so on and so forth. He tried so hard to get it too. I tagged him a couple times with just a few seconds left on the cap.

And after that, he kept gunning for me. And I know this because he would actually switch targets when I showed up, happened a few times.

So either I really annoyed him, or I really impressed him. People being people, I assume the first.

[Cmongo]

This is how it works on the Horde side, group 1 and 2 take Forge, group 3 takes LM along the way one guy from group 2 takes farm. If Forge looks easy to take group 2 slipts half go to LM half gose to Farm. When we have them we send out rogues to take stable and mine(but not to defene), most of the time this makes the Allince run back to take them, making the attacking partys weaker in numbers.

as far as i know this is the stander for all horde players on all severes. all horde members know to do this. Sounds like you Allince guys need to talk more :grin:

[Caderbery]

The main problem i have on the Alliance side are the noobs who think you need all 5 nodes to win, Sevral times we have been up against a good horde team but we have managed to cap 3 nodes, rather than just defending them untill we win they all run off to capture the last 2 leaving no defence at the other 3.

[Altaris]

The main problem i have on the Alliance side are the noobs who think you need all 5 nodes to win, Sevral times we have been up against a good horde team but we have managed to cap 3 nodes, rather than just defending them untill we win they all run off to capture the last 2 leaving no defence at the other 3.

That is a rampant and virulent idea that many alliance seem obsessed with.

:cry:

To me, is seems that many alliance are not happy to win. They want to win fast and to totally demolish the other team and then proceed to rub in their face.

While I'm all for that, the most vocal proponents of this are also the most stupid who zerg everything and don't even attempt any tactics.

[Cmongo]

That is a rampant and virulent idea that many alliance seem obsessed with.

:cry:

To me, is seems that many alliance are not happy to win. They want to win fast and to totally demolish the other team and then proceed to rub in their face.

While I'm all for that, the most vocal proponents of this are also the most stupid who zerg everything and don't even attempt any tactics.


yes i have see this tried on the allince side, i call it roundrobin, most and or all 15 allince ride from point to point and take each flag then ride to the next, all we do is leave a rogue, or have a toon hide away from battle and take the flag back as soon as they leave. I have never seen this work for them.

[Arthengel]

From alliance perspective, and my winning experiences of AB in the last month, I can say both LM and mine are important to cap.

The reason is, by this way alliance continues to farm from both fronts, and usually caps it, which gives a great assault opportunity to BS, and makes it very easy to defend LM in the meanwhile.

It taunts the horde group preparing for the big zerg at the stables to go back to farm and defend.

And we keep the mine easily, since usually at this stage of the battle, it is a ghost town. Every single win against horde has occured with this sequence.

So when do we lose?

Before capping the graveyards, some people rez at the stables, and do not bother to leave again. They zerg happily together, thinking they are grinding lots of HK's, while horde gets 146 bonus points in a few minutes.

[owlx]

knowing a sides tendancies can really help a premade or a well organized pug.

Since the horde generally push LM and BS, when alliance is organized or I am in a guild raid, we split about 2/3 bs, 1/3 lm to win the first push. Since nothing is capped they will spawn back at their keep and be unable to get back into to prevent us from taking the flag. Then you regroup to defend, send any extras to the mine and your rezers can reinforce whichever front you choose.


This is a huge deal because, if you have a few people guarding the flags at bs and lm, you can control the horde in between the farm and the lm/bs crossroads.

Hold that spot and take the Mine to get an easy 4 cap by fighting a two front war at their farm........just beware of rogues/druids.


It's better to win that first big battle, then avoid it. IMO

[Arthengel]

I really do not understand what does PuG horde groups have anything to do with stables before capping LM and defending farm properly. BS, LM and farm triangle isjust very easy to defend. There is good view of everywhere. And the area between BS bridge, ramp to LM and farm flag gives fast access to all three places, making the movement of the units very quick.

That is the horde terrain advantage at AB. And an alliance win occurs when we just give them stables and get these bases. We just switch bases and use the terrain advantage that they start the game with.

[Cmongo]

knowing a sides tendancies can really help a premade or a well organized pug.

Since the horde generally push LM and BS, when alliance is organized or I am in a guild raid, we split about 2/3 bs, 1/3 lm to win the first push. Since nothing is capped they will spawn back at their keep and be unable to get back into to prevent us from taking the flag. Then you regroup to defend, send any extras to the mine and your rezers can reinforce whichever front you choose.


This is a huge deal because, if you have a few people guarding the flags at bs and lm, you can control the horde in between the farm and the lm/bs crossroads.

Hold that spot and take the Mine to get an easy 4 cap by fighting a two front war at their farm........just beware of rogues/druids.


It's better to win that first big battle, then avoid it. IMO

i have seen this one as well fighting on 2 fronts is never good, all the horde dose is take the stables mines and LM from you as you wastes time taking the farm, we get the farm back as you waste more time taking the stables, and we let you take the mines back and we still have the BS LM and the farm again.:grin: but all and all what moves and counters you make is all up to how the other team is playing. the more you have played AB the more you learn.

[owlx]

i have seen this one as well fighting on 2 fronts is never good, all the horde dose is take the stables mines and LM from you as you wastes time taking the farm, we get the farm back as you waste more time taking the stables, and we let you take the mines back and we still have the BS LM and the farm again.:grin: but all and all what moves and counters you make is all up to how the other team is playing. the more you have played AB the more you learn.


how exactly do they get to take the stables our any other flag if you have them trapped at the farm?

Maybe I didn't make myself clear.

1) split into 2 groups, 9 in one 6 in the other
2) 9 go to bs, 6 go to lm
3) as soon as first wave at bs is defeated, find out lm status
4) if lm needs help, reinforce from bs, rezers go to mine
5) if lm ok, hit mine from bs leaving some to defend with lm group
6) bs and lm should have at least one on the flag, the rest should be guarding near the bs bridge or on the ramp leading to the lm, this way that can support each other while you take mine
7) once mine is clear, push to control left side of farm, you don't need to cap it, just force the horde to fight at the farm flag. this keeps pressure off the lm and bs.
8) you have an easy 4 cap......if they leave the farm open take it, and 5 cap ftw.

This is what my guild does consistanly vs pugs and premades. it can be done with a pug if they work together from the start.

If the game does not start like this, then all bets are off. even one or two people going to the mine will cause this plan to fail.

[Altaris]

Owl, what server are you on and what level range is your guild going to BG's in premades?

[Cmongo]

how exactly do they get to take the stables our any other flag if you have them trapped at the farm?

Maybe I didn't make myself clear.

1) split into 2 groups, 9 in one 6 in the other
2) 9 go to bs, 6 go to lm
3) as soon as first wave at bs is defeated, find out lm status
4) if lm needs help, reinforce from bs, rezers go to mine
5) if lm ok, hit mine from bs leaving some to defend with lm group
6) bs and lm should have at least one on the flag, the rest should be guarding near the bs bridge or on the ramp leading to the lm, this way that can support each other while you take mine
7) once mine is clear, push to control left side of farm, you don't need to cap it, just force the horde to fight at the farm flag. this keeps pressure off the lm and bs.
8) you have an easy 4 cap......if they leave the farm open take it, and 5 cap ftw.

This is what my guild does consistanly vs pugs and premades. it can be done with a pug if they work together from the start.

If the game does not start like this, then all bets are off. even one or two people going to the mine will cause this plan to fail. only takes one to take the stables and mine from you.:grin: and it only takes one to defend it. you will have to move 3-4 players back to the stables and 2-3 to the mines just to stop this from happening, leaving you very weak on the front line. that only leaves you with 5-7 players to defend the BS and LB and fight us at the farm, and we would have 10-12. Fighting us at the farm is a bad move, it way to easy for us to take out your back lines and force you to come take them back. The horde side knows this, so we only send the rogue over to the stables to play with you and make you keep 2 or 3 players there at all times or you will never keep if for long. we use one player to take 3 away from your front lines, if we have rogues working in pairs you will lose 5 or 6 from your front line to keep us from taking the Stable and mine. it is very easy and fun to do to you becasue all you can do is waste time looking for the rogue to try and kill him to stop him from taking them 2. it's used in wars all the time take your man off the front lines to graud your rear weakens your fornt lines. i can not say for all severs but the 5 severs i am on, the horde side 75% of the players are active mility or x-mililty, we know how to fight as a whole vs. pre teens/high school kids that pop about 80% of the allince side. :laugh:

[murderousmic]

only takes one to take the stables and mine from you.:grin: and it only takes one to defend it. you will have to move 3-4 players back to the stables and 2-3 to the mines just to stop this from happening, leaving you very weak on the front line. that only leaves you with 5-7 players to defend the BS and LB and fight us at the farm, and we would have 10-12. Fighting us at the farm is a bad move, it way to easy for us to take out your back lines and force you to come take them back. The horde side knows this, so we only send the rogue over to the stables to play with you and make you keep 2 or 3 players there at all times or you will never keep if for long. we use one player to take 3 away from your front lines, if we have rogues working in pairs you will lose 5 or 6 from your front line to keep us from taking the Stable and mine. it is very easy and fun to do to you becasue all you can do is waste time looking for the rogue to try and kill him to stop him from taking them 2. it's used in wars all the time take your man off the front lines to graud your rear weakens your fornt lines. i can not say for all severs but the 5 severs i am on, the horde side 75% of the players are active mility or x-mililty, we know how to fight as a whole vs. pre teens/high school kids that pop about 80% of the allince side. :laugh:

Ummm are you kidding? Rogues are not that l33t my friend. Hunters crush rogues most of the time. Dwarf hunters are practically immune to rogues because of stoneform. I will take out a rogue trying to cap st alone and 5 more times if he comes back. My dwarf hunter beats rogues 99% of the time.

I agree that it is the type of players that make a difference. More newbies and casual gamers tend to choose alliance while more hardcore gamers go for horde and tend to work better together, not because '75% of the players are active mility or x-mililty, we know how to fight as a whole vs. pre teens/high school kids that pop about 80% of the allince side' because that is completely untrue.

[Mirinda]

Here is a typical top-bracket Arathi in the Bloodlust battlegroup:

Alliance starts with 10-12 players, and nobody says anything in bg chat prior to the gate opening.

Two players compete to be the one who caps the stables.

Three go to the gold mine.

Three go to the lumber mill.

Three go to the blacksmith.

One says, "I'm gonna ninja the farm."

Either lumber mill or mine is an easy cap, because Horde sent everybody to the blacksmith and one other node, with 1-2 waiting for farm to cap.

Whoever on Alliance got the easy caps leaves, because people from blacksmith and other nodes start rezzing in the gy's.

Horde riders pour over the ledge to mine and easily overwhelm any resistance. Then they move en masse to the stables, spending the rest of the game churning kills. Many of those are from latecomers, as some Alliance choose to quit.

By now about half of the Alliance team was not around at the beginning and simply wants to hang on for a token.

They cannot ghost walk to another node, because a Horde druid has run around and capped the remaining ones.

Game quickly over, after Alliance began with 3-2 node advantage.

If Horde starts with just farm and blacksmith and doesn't get numbers spread out, they are in great position. They can send a large group to mine very easily. Mine is impossible to defend without significant numbers. Help is too slow in coming, unless a lot of people rez there at once. That means you're losing somewhere else.

Alliance "take three and defend" tactic is stupid. You're never going to get five live players per node for very long. One node is going to get hit with at least eight Horde, and the defense is going to lose.

If Alliance controls stables, blacksmith and lumber mill, it is easy to harass farm or mine (not both at the same time) while keeping numbers concentrated at the front.

Key is to gain numerical advantage on average through the game by keeping more of them dead. Horde always does this by catching the Alliance spread all over the map.

[Cmongo]

i never said anything about killing or pwning, all i said was rogues are the best for messing with them taking flags and being a pain in the butt, yes it will take 3-4 people to find the rogue and take him down if you can pop him out of stealth, AB is not about who can kill more. 1 rogue can take 4 people off your attacking team just by hanging around the stables NOT killing. That is worth it. we lost one off our attcking team you lose 3, if we do the same thing at the mines that is 3 more off your attacking team. we lose 2 you lose 6. so that is 13 Horde vs. your 8 attacking members. if you go heavy on the defence, like 5 or 6 at the stables and 6 more at the mines we have done our job, and will win with the 3 we have.

This is why most allince loses at AB they think if you kill more you will win, AB is not set up that way, ya the allince could have the most kills at AB, dose not mean your going to win nope.:thumbsup:

and yes the kiddys play on the allince side more. the way you can tell read the barrens chat, then go look at the chat on the allince side lol if you have never played horde you have no clue what i mean about the barrens chat :laugh:

[owlx]

only takes one to take the stables and mine from you.:grin: and it only takes one to defend it. you will have to move 3-4 players back to the stables and 2-3 to the mines just to stop this from happening, leaving you very weak on the front line. that only leaves you with 5-7 players to defend the BS and LB and fight us at the farm, and we would have 10-12. Fighting us at the farm is a bad move, it way to easy for us to take out your back lines and force you to come take them back. The horde side knows this, so we only send the rogue over to the stables to play with you and make you keep 2 or 3 players there at all times or you will never keep if for long. we use one player to take 3 away from your front lines, if we have rogues working in pairs you will lose 5 or 6 from your front line to keep us from taking the Stable and mine. it is very easy and fun to do to you becasue all you can do is waste time looking for the rogue to try and kill him to stop him from taking them 2. it's used in wars all the time take your man off the front lines to graud your rear weakens your fornt lines. i can not say for all severs but the 5 severs i am on, the horde side 75% of the players are active mility or x-mililty, we know how to fight as a whole vs. pre teens/high school kids that pop about 80% of the allince side. :laugh:


and what the hell does this have to do with anything I said?

It's stupid to send out rogues to ninja nodes at the start of the match. They will have to ride for much of the distance and someone will spot them. Even if they get to the stables undetected........they are going to contend with all the people that just rezed there from the big battles that just happened at the BS and LM.

I am talking about using the respawn points to your advantage and wining through early aggression and sustained pressure. That doesn't mean farm kills. Sometimes you have to just run in and get killed to get someone off the flag long enough for reinforcements to arrive or to push to point of attack to a place where it is better for the whole team.

The point is to cut off and paths for the enemy to advance and allow you to fight in a smaller area. Good raiding guilds do this to perfection on both sides. Harder to pull off with a pug, but, that is the best early game strategy. If it stalls then you have to regroup and try other things. Fi thisis done properly, it rarely has to use 'plan b.'

If you are going to argue strategy, at least be realistic.

Of course, I did say organized alliance pug........which is pretty freaking unbelievable. It has happened at least once in my life time lol

[Cmongo]

and what the hell does this have to do with anything I said?

It's stupid to send out rogues to ninja nodes at the start of the match. They will have to ride for much of the distance and someone will spot them. Even if they get to the stables undetected........they are going to contend with all the people that just rezed there from the big battles that just happened at the BS and LM.

I am talking about using the respawn points to your advantage and wining through early aggression and sustained pressure. That doesn't mean farm kills. Sometimes you have to just run in and get killed to get someone off the flag long enough for reinforcements to arrive or to push to point of attack to a place where it is better for the whole team.

The point is to cut off and paths for the enemy to advance and allow you to fight in a smaller area. Good raiding guilds do this to perfection on both sides. Harder to pull off with a pug, but, that is the best early game strategy. If it stalls then you have to regroup and try other things. Fi thisis done properly, it rarely has to use 'plan b.'

If you are going to argue strategy, at least be realistic.

Of course, I did say organized alliance pug........which is pretty freaking unbelievable. It has happened at least once in my life time lol
did i say on the start send out rouges? hmmm nope i did a step by step of the first 5 mins, and only after BS farm and LB would we send out the rouge.
i do this all the time with my rogue i camp the stable and make live harder for the allince i do not wtf pwn anyone i wait for the right time take the flag, if only one allince tries to take it back i pwn his butt, then they come back with 3 4 even 5 people to try and find and kill me, i get the hell out of there, and lay in wait for them to leave, if i can get them to stay i am taking 5 guys out of the attacking party, doing this all with out even coming out of stealth. if i get boried and they will not leave i make my way to the mine and do the same thing there, and at the same time i report when they are moving too.

it's a more then fair trade off 1 rouge taking 5 guys off the attacking party
i have been saying this over and over, you don't have to kill them, just make them look for you, it all most they same thing you are talking about, but i distrack them instand of dying.

[owlx]

so why are you quoting me and responding with things that don't pertain to what I am talking about? It's like you're trying to disagree with me but avoiding a head on debate. If you want to talk about how powerful your rogue is then go to the rogue forum.

you are greatly exaggerating the 1 rogue vs 5 people in a bg.

If you are facing an organized unit, 1 rogue will only slow your win speed while you go from 4/1 to 3/1 briefly, to send 2 people max to deal with the rogue.........then it's right back to 4/1 and the rogue is right back where they started.

some races/classes/item allow rogues to be dealt with very easy 1v1........even if you can't find them right away. All you have to do is go recap the flag and the rogue will show up.......then you pwn him and get back to your win.

[Cmongo]

so why are you quoting me and responding with things that don't pertain to what I am talking about? It's like you're trying to disagree with me but avoiding a head on debate. If you want to talk about how powerful your rogue is then go to the rogue forum.

you are greatly exaggerating the 1 rogue vs 5 people in a bg.

If you are facing an organized unit, 1 rogue will only slow your win speed while you go from 4/1 to 3/1 briefly, to send 2 people max to deal with the rogue.........then it's right back to 4/1 and the rogue is right back where they started.

some races/classes/item allow rogues to be dealt with very easy 1v1........even if you can't find them right away. All you have to do is go recap the flag and the rogue will show up.......then you pwn him and get back to your win.
am i saying anything about fighting 1 vs 5 no i have not said one thing about fighting. the rogue in no way should fight any of them just keep them there. 2 guys lol make me laugh both sapped and rogue still having fun. i am guessing you have not had this done to you, or you would know how well it works.
and if your telling me the allince is a orgenized unit, stop making me laugh.:laugh:

[murderousmic]

i never said anything about killing or pwning, all i said was rogues are the best for messing with them taking flags and being a pain in the butt, yes it will take 3-4 people to find the rogue and take him down if you can pop him out of stealth, AB is not about who can kill more. 1 rogue can take 4 people off your attacking team just by hanging around the stables NOT killing. That is worth it. we lost one off our attcking team you lose 3, if we do the same thing at the mines that is 3 more off your attacking team. we lose 2 you lose 6. so that is 13 Horde vs. your 8 attacking members. if you go heavy on the defence, like 5 or 6 at the stables and 6 more at the mines we have done our job, and will win with the 3 we have.

This is why most allince loses at AB they think if you kill more you will win, AB is not set up that way, ya the allince could have the most kills at AB, dose not mean your going to win nope.:thumbsup:

and yes the kiddys play on the allince side more. the way you can tell read the barrens chat, then go look at the chat on the allince side lol if you have never played horde you have no clue what i mean about the barrens chat :laugh:

First off, 1 rogue WILL NOT lock up 3 players like you think. As a hunter I have track hidden and flares. Anytime a rogue is near me I can see him but he doesn't know that so I quickly drop freezing trap and wait for him to 'ambush' me. Instead he gets frozen, I go to distance, hit my ap/hit trinket>rapid fire> and line up for a nice big fat aimed shot>concussive>serpent sting>arcane>multi shot = dead rogue in 10-15 seconds. If he doesn't attack me for whatever reason I just hit him with a scatter shot and then serpent sting to keep him out of stealth and then burn him down in 10-15 secs again.

Rogues are not invincinble or completely invisible as you seem to think. Generally rogues biggest flaw in BG's is when they think they're invisible but I can see them if they are relatively close to me.

Those rogues just hurt your team by thinking he was such a ninja and now you're down one player. Nobody is stressing about a rogue lurking, especially not 4 players like you seem to think.

I've never played a horde toon but I've heard stories about Barrens chat that would make you think it's disney channel chat.

[owlx]

and if your telling me the allince is a orgenized unit, stop making me laugh.:laugh:

if the alliance got organized in general you would not laugh

i run in a premade with an awesome pvp guild, so I am used to organization. If the alliance bothered to read strategy guides and discussions like this, they might do better.

So bragging about how you can occupy 5 unorganized alliance noobs seems pretty funny to me.

Try that jank with a premade and see what happens. We'll send one to deal with you and that's it.

If you want to twist what I say while never directly responding to it, then don't get offended when someone else does the same.

I listed an easy to follow opening game strategy that works if you are organized. I have to assume people will be organized, even if they aren't, because discussing strategy with people who are not going to coodinate is pointless.

you respond with 1 rogue with take 5 people off the front lines and ruin this strategy...........that is a gross overstatement.

that about sum it up or do you have more to add?

[Cmongo]

take it was you wish, but pound for pound the horde is better and being, organized, having a plans and following throw, so you can :cry: all you want about how organized you think the allince is. :grin: see you in AB all

[owlx]

wow............just wow

Do you even read the posts or do you just make stuff up to argue about? when did i say that alliance was more organized than horde, let alone organized at all?...........holy brick wall batman.

I am seriously concerned for you.

[Cmongo]

wow............just wow

Do you even read the posts or do you just make stuff up to argue about? when did i say that alliance was more organized than horde, let alone organized at all?...........holy brick wall batman.

I am seriously concerned for you.

thanks i feel so much better now that you are concerned for me it just :sunny: my day

[owlx]

Since you can't come up with any sort of argument that has anything to do with what I've said, I'm just going to stop now to save you the further embarassment and save me the frustration.

GLIL

[Cmongo]

Since you can't come up with any sort of argument that has anything to do with what I've said, I'm just going to stop now to save you the further embarassment and save me the frustration.

GLIL
i don't need to, i use it , i know it works, and i show other rouges how to do it and it works for them as well.

[owlx]

ok, sure :rolleyes:





you make me laugh.

"When I rule this planet, I will keep you as a jester, or chimp for my amusement."

-invisibo

[Cmongo]

ok, sure :rolleyes:





you make me laugh.

"When I rule this planet, I will keep you as a jester, or chimp for my amusement."

-invisibo that is my job now :grin: