illidan...

[lleuwelyn]

so... the almighty illidan has been introduced via the bc-update... anybody seen him in game yet? if so have pics or vids?

[Radhil]

This ain't that patch. Look for a 2.1.0, not a 2.0.10.

[lleuwelyn]

? he could be seen at the intro movie of burning crusade... but he is not in game yet? Im not a wow player but i kinda follow it at a distance. I used to play the frozen throne a lot and am still interested in how its main characters are introduced in WOW. Just for the fun of it

[Radhil]

Nooo, not in game yet, but then, why did you ask about the patch...??? :confused1:

But anyway... He was planned for release, but like all good things, take a bit to iron out. And the game has more than enough stuff that still hasn't been completed between the players and Illidan, stuff that might need to be completed before the raid groups can even get close to him (Black Temple is his "instance", and most of the tougher stuff so far has needed keys, quests, reputation, next of kin, etc.). When the 2.1 patch comes out - I'm hoping end of the month, maybe a little into April - we'll see.

It should be cool.

[SLUGFly]

I follow vaguely too... but wasn't Illidan blind? Or had his eyes bound? I seem to remember the Demon Hunter in the intro movie (though same creature and same weapons) having eyes... could be wrong though.

[Radhil]

Illidan had his eyes burned out some ten thousand years ago, yeah. That's not to say that, having ingested enough magic to light a small sun, he can't have glowy things that look like fierce eyes. (I actually wish they handn't done that - he looks cooler without it)

[pSIkmustang]

Illidan had his eyes burned out some ten thousand years ago, yeah. That's not to say that, having ingested enough magic to light a small sun, he can't have glowy things that look like fierce eyes. (I actually wish they handn't done that - he looks cooler without it)

Illidan's eyes were burned out by Sageras and replaced with a pair of small burning orbs. A 'gift' given by Sageras to him, to enhance his vision through magic. More explicitly, according to "War of The Ancients", Queen Aszhara covered his 'gift' with a cloth, or something.

[laffncry]

so... the almighty illidan has been introduced via the bc-update... anybody seen him in game yet? if so have pics or vids?

not really! but i would love to have him in the game though! i just see him in the WOW intro but i not yet in the game!

[xxlebox]

Play warcraft and find out! :p

[Mercot]

I didn't see him, but I heard him last night. Or at least saw his yell in the chat. I was flying around Black Temple, scoping the Clerics and ghostly horsemen. Can't recall his exact words, though. "Dare they approach me, Illidan," or something like that. He's kinda particular about his personal bubble, apparently, so watch out.

[Your Average WoW Player]

Jeez. Even if this WAS the correct patch, it seems a little premature to actually assume that people have gotten there. I mean, hell, it took like a month to a month and a half for the first guild in the world to kill Kel'Thuzad after 1.11.

Illidan isn't going to be seen in the first 24 hours of the patch release, got a whole raid instance to go through.

Give people a chance!

[ferofax]

...plus with all that consumables that youre going to need just to clear a mob is ridiculous, and would definitely hinder the progress even more.

[Kalos]

Illidan's eyes were burned out by Sageras and replaced with a pair of small burning orbs. A 'gift' given by Sageras to him, to enhance his vision through magic. More explicitly, according to "War of The Ancients", Queen Aszhara covered his 'gift' with a cloth, or something.
I wouldn't go by anything that "WOTA" says. It conflicts with the accounts written by other people, including the creator of the franchise; and makes basic mistakes such as placing arcane casters on the resistence's side and killing off Sargaras, the Lord of the Burning Legion himself, when we clearly know him to be around 9,000 years later. Knaak himself has gone back over some sections and retconned them, confirming them to be a mistake. It's not canon by far. It's the most inaccurate, lore-conflicting set of novels in the Warcraft universe released, written by an external source. None of it is to be taken on it's own merit, unless backed up with sources from other authors and revisions.

[Wintrow]

Nooo, not in game yet, but then, why did you ask about the patch...??? :confused1:


I'm thinking he was talking about The Burning Crusade in general.

To rephrase:
"so... the almighty illidan has been introduced via the bc-update... anybody seen him in game yet? if so have pics or vids?"

-->

"So, the almighty Illidan has been introduced in The Burning Crusade-expansion... anybody seen him ingame yet? If so, do you have any screenshots or videos?"

[Radhil]

I wouldn't go by anything that "WOTA" says. It conflicts with the accounts written by other people, including the creator of the franchise; and makes basic mistakes such as placing arcane casters on the resistence's side and killing off Sargaras, the Lord of the Burning Legion himself, when we clearly know him to be around 9,000 years later. Knaak himself has gone back over some sections and retconned them, confirming them to be a mistake. It's not canon by far. It's the most inaccurate, lore-conflicting set of novels in the Warcraft universe released, written by an external source. None of it is to be taken on it's own merit, unless backed up with sources from other authors and revisions.

*scratches head* I'd swear I heard of Sargeras being killed in the Well of Eternity well before any of the Knaak novels showed up. Granted bits and pieces of him were still left - witness Medivh - but yeah, that was canon.

The only confusion I heard of coming out of those novels was the whole Hakkar fiasco. Which parts are you referring to?

[Naolin]

Jeez. Even if this WAS the correct patch, it seems a little premature to actually assume that people have gotten there. I mean, hell, it took like a month to a month and a half for the first guild in the world to kill Kel'Thuzad after 1.11.

Illidan isn't going to be seen in the first 24 hours of the patch release, got a whole raid instance to go through.

Give people a chance!

Don't forget the WoW model viewer. We should be able to see how he looks ingame the moment that patch hits for ourselves.

[Kisark]

No one has said it?

Illidan is not prepared...or is it Blizzard...either way..someone is not prepared.

[laffncry]

i just wish i could see some screenshots of illidan in the game(if ever there is any!) he's my fave char in warcraft! also would like to see arthas in the game as well!

[LucidTaint]

Don't forget the WoW model viewer. We should be able to see how he looks ingame the moment that patch hits for ourselves.

The model viewer has not worked for me since the expansion (haven't looked for a new version, though -- just haven't had time -- so not sure if a newer version would work).

And that much is true -- if you could find a working version, there MAY be a model of Illidan in it (though it's not a given). And even if there is, it may not be textured yet. I remember pre-AQ, some of the new models were already in the game, but they weren't textured, so you could see the general shape of what they looked like, but they were all white so it was hard to discern what they'd actually look like post-texture.

[Kalos]

*scratches head* I'd swear I heard of Sargeras being killed in the Well of Eternity well before any of the Knaak novels showed up. Granted bits and pieces of him were still left - witness Medivh - but yeah, that was canon.

The only confusion I heard of coming out of those novels was the whole Hakkar fiasco. Which parts are you referring to?
Bringing in some quote from Nephalim:
It is said quite clearly "He ceased to be", when in reality all that had happened was the door had been slammed in the fallen titan's face as he was coming through. So, now according to Knaak, Sargeras apparently dies during the War of the Ancients, because the portal closes while he's halfway through it, which means he was never around to impregnant Aegwynn. No Medivh means no portal, no portal means no orcs, and no orcs means no Warcraft. In one sentence, Knaak completely refuted the entirety of this franchise.

The whole section in question, copy/pasted from the book:
And then a thing happened that Krasus could never have dreamed possible. Sargeras, refusing to believe his defeat, stepped within the crumbling portal itself, trying to both rebuild it and cross through. His desire to do so proved his undoing. As the portal imploded, the demon lord found himself trapped. He could not flee, could not pull back. Dropping his sword, the titan battered against the gateway with his fists, but to no avail. The corridor between realms shrank rapidly, at last crushing in on him. Sargeras roared and his voice echoed in the heads of all.
I will not be denied! I will not!
But the gateway continued to condense and Sargeras seemed to condense with it. He struggled to keep the way open, the interior of the gate aflame from his titanic efforts.
And then, with the demon lord still shouting his rage and beating at the walls... the portal ceased to be.
Sargeras ceased to be.
"It's done!" gasped Malfurion.

Error by error: Maiev: According to Shadows and Light, Maiev was just a child during the War. Here, she is a senior priestess, portrayed as substantially older than Tyrande. Maiev in all other incarnations had no background with the temple of Elune or the priestess soceity.

On Tyrande again: She spends half the book captured in the prison, and all attempts to torture her fail because Elune puts up some magical shield around her that protects her. So not only does this force us to question Elune's wisdom, since there are people dying EVERYWHERE and she chooses to protect the one priestess who isn't presently in any fatal danger, but it also renders Tyrande utterly passive. She's not resisting the torture, Elune's doing it for her. And why didn't Dejahna get this boon? Because Tyrande has the favour of Elune. Why? No reason. She does nothing exceptional, and even after dying Dejahna promotes her, she is in the field as commander for two minutes before she's knocked out and kidnapped. So the reason Tyrande is remarkable is basically because she's remarkable. If this is how things actually went during the War, I'd think all the Sentinels to be unimaginably stupid to follow someone who was absent through half (and the most important half) of the war.

Illidan: While it's never been said outright, the implication is that Illidan defeated the doomguard Azzinoth in battle, and consumed his spirit, then destroyed his eyes to prevent the spirit from escaping. Now, I think this to be a pretty good explanation, in terms of drama, and also gives some credence to Illidan. He's willing to make those sacrifices, we're assured. In the book, Sargeras burns out his eyes just because, and then grants him demon sight. So it doesn't mean anything. It was something that was done to him. Aside from that, Illidan was never previously portrayed as THAT good a sorcerer in the past. He was a highborne, yes, (which, by the way, he isn't here) but we never had any indication that he was that good. In here, he's a master wizard, who has to clean up after MANNOROTH's mistakes. He's almost on par with Azshara herself. Illidan is renowned for his betrayal, and his magical talents were never deemed exceptional before. Aside from THAT, in one scene, he actually shoves Tyrande around. Like physically pushes her. Now, I found it to be a case of cruel dramatic irony in the game. Illidan seems to love Tyrande more than Furion, but she just doesn't love him back. He would NEVER hurts her, and he goes out of his way to keep her from harm. He's a total ass to her here. Also, some trivia, if you recall, Illidan's worst fear; what be betrayed the woman he loved for, was the destruction of the Well. But in Knaak's account, as it's imploding, he watches and calls it "Fascinating."

Malfurion: According to Knaak, at the time of the War, he was 30. As in thirty. That's not a typo. He was well over five thousand years old in every other source by the time of WOTA breaking out. Basic facts are throw out the window, even ages are not right. The most critcal battle he fought in, the ultimate showdown between arcane and divine magic manifested by Azshara and Malfurion, never happens.

Deathwing: Neltharion's name change is the most annoying thing in the book. Not in principle, but in tactics. Every time someone mentions Deathwing, it's followed by "yes, that was a much more appropriate name for him, after all he had done" or something to that effect, and it's just as annoying to read. EVERY TIME. And Neltharion is constantly being outsmarted by everyone. Everytime something goes wrong, he loses it, and just goes insane.

A fully canonical half-elf we know of is Finnall Goldensword, the bastard daughter of Daelin Proudmoore and an elf named Kilnar Goldensword, who was apparently a powerful sorceress in Dalaran. Finnall was raised in Dalaran, and forged a resistance after Proudmoore sailed west. Guess what Knaak decides to write? Yep, his offspring shall be the first half-elf/humans ever born. Flies in the face of examples we already know.

Queen Azshara - Not what I expected and slightly disappointing. From the glimpses of her in the Warcraft RPG series and what I'd inferred from the various Warcraft histories and texts, I pictured her as a powerful, self-confident woman whose strength of will and beauty dominated all those around her and who openly commanded her subjects. In Knaak's trilogy, however, she plays the part of seductress who is herself seduced by the allure of the Demon Lord Sargeras. There is an appropriate irony in this, and I don't mind that she mesmerizes people with her beauty into doing exactly what she wants or that she desires to become Sargeras' bride. What I do mind is that she hardly does anything herself, leaving everything for others to accomplish. She has gone from a pivotal character instrumental in trying to summon Sargeras into Azeroth to one who seems to spend most of the third book making herself look good in an effort to please the Demon Lord.

This story has WAY too many holes. So many that we don't know what we're supposed to regard as canon and ignore as just Knaakisms. There's likely ample amounts of both. The book was trash in terms of writing skills so it's not like we were reading for a compelling read. We were reading for lore. But we come out of this actually knowing less than we did going into it. Is Ysera Cenarius' mother? Could be. But there's as much evidence for as against. So whereas before we knew his mom was Elune, now we just don't know. Let's throw off all our baggage - we DON'T know. We are left to guess.

[Radhil]

Allright.... 90% of what you just said is just plot criticism, and you maybe state one source for one of your supposed conflicts that I actually asked about... the RPG book, which I'm going to guess is the gospel you're going by... so I'm going to back away gently and ask you put down the whip and flog.... right, I've got a lunch appointment...

[Kalos]

Allright.... 90% of what you just said is just plot criticism, and you maybe state one source for one of your supposed conflicts that I actually asked about... the RPG book, which I'm going to guess is the gospel you're going by... so I'm going to back away gently and ask you put down the whip and flog.... right, I've got a lunch appointment...
Then 90% of what you read, you read wrong. These were serious conflicts with all existing lore, including the Warcraft 3 summarisation, the WoW summarisation, even other novels. It gets basic things wrong, vital events are thrown out the window, and gets more facts wrong than it creates uncontestably.

And you, rather than challenging each point on it's own basis and being proven wrong on your assumption that Knaak didn't write Sargaras' demise, are simply griping for general excuses rather than countering each point on it's own merit.

Let's take one simple fact. Character ages. How could he get these wrong? What's the point in changing them when Warcraft 3 and the RPG books are in complete unison with one another? Do we drop three sources in favour of one? It's getting things wrong for the sake of getting things wrong, there's no reason not to agree and reinforce the existing lore.

I'd suggest you attend your lunch appointment rather than trying to sling mud at me. It doesn't challenge the ligitimacy of the observations.

Accidentally killing off Sagaras is definantly a major flaw. Without him, it basically makes the warcraft series impossible. He has to survive, else no dark portal, no orcs, no destruction of Stormwind, the great wars don't happen. It's agiven he survives. Knaak wrote he "Seised to be". With that, the book lost all legitimacy. You can't claim to be an accurate canonical source and contridict vital and necessary suppositions to the founding of what we now know as the warcraft world. He's contridicting no less than seven seperate sources on this issue, with nobody but him backing him up.

[Radhil]

*shrug* I'm not griping, as I really asked about the conflicts only out of curiosity. I'm obviously not familiar with the RPG books and what's contained, and how much it purports to be THE authority. My opinion is simply this: When Blizzard can't keep it's OWN canon straight, when maps and locations never agree and the latest expansion has a massive retcon in it's own right just to slip a race in, when the games themselves don't line up.... I'm not going to expect a gospel of authority to come from an ouside author. S'why I'm puzzled at your... enthusiasm.

I enjoy Blizzard's stories (and the Knaak story, decent if disposable), especially given the races and the histories that they've built with them. I do expect something of a consistent world, and thus my question. But hardcore canon like you seem to follow don't make sense to me; much like Trekkies who claim Klingon's "evolved" a sharper forehead to explain to themselves the problems of a makeup budget. I can't reconcile the differing opinions of two books, both of outside origins, both making attempts at intricate details of given characters lives, when Blizz barely keeps themselves in check. My apologies for offending you.

[Kalos]

*shrug* I'm not griping, as I really asked about the conflicts only out of curiosity. I'm obviously not familiar with the RPG books and what's contained, and how much it purports to be THE authority. My opinion is simply this: When Blizzard can't keep it's OWN canon straight, when maps and locations never agree and the latest expansion has a massive retcon in it's own right just to slip a race in, when the games themselves don't line up.... I'm not going to expect a gospel of authority to come from an ouside author. S'why I'm puzzled at your... enthusiasm.

I enjoy Blizzard's stories (and the Knaak story, decent if disposable), especially given the races and the histories that they've built with them. I do expect something of a consistent world, and thus my question. But hardcore canon like you seem to follow don't make sense to me; much like Trekkies who claim Klingon's "evolved" a sharper forehead to explain to themselves the problems of a makeup budget. I can't reconcile the differing opinions of two books, both of outside origins, both making attempts at intricate details of given characters lives, when Blizz barely keeps themselves in check. My apologies for offending you.
It is nothing to apologise for. It's just a bad source of answers as a book. It doesn't just disagree with newer books but older ones too. The irony being, newer and older both agree on what was the actual events. Knaak is a general fantasy writer, bumbling from one frachise to another writing little more than half-truths and gaping errors as he goes. The RPG books are written mostly by Chris Metzen, the Franchise creator. The RPG books are the basis for WoW. There's three strong RPG books, three games, and another novel that disagrees with Knaak on Sargaras. So when someone suggests Knaak's work for a source of story info, it's only right to point out it is perhaps the most contrived, unreliable, and non canonical work ever put to print. There's fan fiction with less inconsistencies and blatent one off errors.

It's a good fiction, but an awefully inaccurate version of events. Illidan ritually blinded himself to retain Azzinoth within his body. Everyone bar Knaak says the same story.