no OP class?

[Pwnzaurs]

hey guys...
sometimes i get pissed. i hate it when everyone says " omg locks/hunts(or anyclass for that matter) are so OP" just cuz they got owned by one 10 mins ago. imo, there are no OP classes. i play a lock, so i get the brunt of all the OP attacks, to say. i own a warr 3 lvls above me. he says "wtf nub locks r OP" n runs away. i get my ass beat by a mage my lvl.
(none of that really happend im just using it as a example).
**** happens ppl. its all about gear/chance/skill. if i was lvl 70 going up agesnt another lvl 70 lock, both t5, and 1 was better than the other, who u think would win?
same thing gearwise. 70 lock in t3 V 70 lock in t5...equal skill. whos gunna win? lol
basically, this whole post is me hating when ppl say one class is OP. all u gotta do is learn that classes weakness, exploit it, and keep trying. like in my 30's i used to get owned by rogues cuz of kick n such. now all i do is 'coil them chain fear +DoT. yet sometimes i get killed by them

[laffncry]

I agree man! There is no such thing as OP. those people just have to learn how to play good. Eating you one time doesn't mean that he/she is OP.:ponder:

[Lalaust]

I am OP!

eod

[JaedxRapture]

Yeah. I think it's hilarious that people cry "OP" so easily. Yes, there are times when a class has an advantage, but that's realistic. You can't have a flat game with no chance of advantage based on unique situation, or it would be boring. I don't think there's a truly "overpowered" class out there. It's just that people don't know how to play.

[nosoup4crr]

I'm one of those people who believe that some classes are stronger than others. However, I would never call a class overpowered. Skill will more than make up for any disparity between them.

I'm also of the school who likes things changing from time to time. Some hate that blizzard will drastically change a skill or even a class from time to time. I love it when this happens...it makes one rethink how to most effectively PvE or PvP. Even if I believe one class is currently stronger than another...it surely won't last forever.

[laffncry]

I'm one of those people who believe that some classes are stronger than others. However, I would never call a class overpowered. Skill will more than make up for any disparity between them.

I'm also of the school who likes things changing from time to time. Some hate that blizzard will drastically change a skill or even a class from time to time. I love it when this happens...it makes one rethink how to most effectively PvE or PvP. Even if I believe one class is currently stronger than another...it surely won't last forever.

Yeah there are stronger classes and it's up for the players to overcome that. I like the challenge of eating a class that I think is strong. For example, I am a hunter and I think that Locks, Rogues and Druids are strong. I do my best to beat them!

[Tanitha]

And as a Lock, I find that Hunters and Druids are my natural worst enemies. There are no generally OP classes, but some are better suited for certain situations. Like JaedXRapture said basically.

I wonder how much of a role player mentality plays in this though?

[Icefrost]

And as a Lock, I find that Hunters and Druids are my natural worst enemies.And as a druid, I find that a warlock anywhere even remotely close to my level will always kill me regardless of who attacked first, who was low on mana/hp, where the fight was and who had better gear. The one and only time I even managed to run away from a warlock was when I found a level ~25 lock in ashenvale while I was level 60.
Not looking for a fight though, just speaking out of experience. Seriously.

Also note that I did not use the word "overpowered" anywhere before this one here.

[Tanitha]

Not looking for a fight though, just speaking out of experience. Seriously.

No hassles, I think that just goes to show how situational the supposed "OP" nature of some classes can be and kinda proves the point. For you, Warlocks are the bane of your existence. For me, it happens to be Druids in cat form and Hunters - both of those will usually see me putting distance between us. (Running away, yeah)

[laffncry]

No hassles, I think that just goes to show how situational the supposed "OP" nature of some classes can be and kinda proves the point.
I have to agree. This just shows that sometimes, it would be based on gears, situation, luck and most importantly, player's skills!!

[Icefrost]

Druids in cat form
Guess what form I like best, especially for PvP? Yeah, you guessed it. Its the one with black fur. And I'm yet to meet a warlock who even thinks of running away from me. In fact, I ran into another level ~25 warlock the other day while I was well over level 60. Instead of even thinking of using his feet, he repeatedly tried to fear me. My guess is he'd have went on till OOM if I didn't take him out while he was still 'only' halfway through his manabar.

Do note that I would have certainly left him alone if it wasn't for all that fearspam.

[Pwnzaurs]

yeah..hunters give me some trouble just cuz im not so good w/ there pets(fear is a biotch w/ a cat pet on ya)
but hunts give me some trouble sometimes. ususally i seduce n fear n DoT n the usuall, but sometimes icant pop off that fear.
also shammys r touguh cuz i cant fear them rigth away i gotta wait till they use a shock (so then i can fear w/o getting intirupted)
rogues r kinda tough if thy get the jump on me cuz of stunlock... but im human so all i do is dectect stealth+racial=u no stealth no more mr. rogue(same for druids)
pallys r touch just cuz of bubbleheals
other locks r a lil tough but i banish pet/chain fear...key to beating other lock is makin sure u get fear off on them first

[Tanitha]

Guess what form I like best, especially for PvP? Yeah, you guessed it. Its the one with black fur. And I'm yet to meet a warlock who even thinks of running away from me.

:grin: You've not run into me yet then! (That sentence reads weirdly, but anyway) Those druids always end up rending, clawing, bleeding and doing all sorts of horrible nastiness to my Warlock. By the time I've managed to turn around and see what it is that's hitting me, I'm a saggly pile of blood covered rags at their feet.

They're not OP, not at all. They're just one of the two classes that give me headaches in any given fight. I'd much rather take on another Warlock, a Warrior, a Rogue, a Paladin, a Rogue, a Priest or a Shaman than a Druid or a Hunter. Those two...

Man. It's something about the way I play, or maybe I've just not fought them enough to work out what their weaknesses are. But they just slaughter me every time. That's why I was asking about player style earlier - I'm half wondering it it isn't how I'm playing my class that is making those two difficult for me to deal with.

[AeroJonesy]

I won't say anyone is overpowered, but I will say that a 5-man team without a paladin is gimped.

[det]

Nobody says OP - they all call us imba ^^

Getting our warlock/warrior team pwned by dual Paladins, dual rogues, dual OOMkins (6 trees beating on you? no fun)...it is rock, paper, scissors...

[Pwnzaurs]

OP, imba, close enough =p

[snrofgar]

Im a hunter, and i suck but i love people thinking im Op, Locks Fear is there strength thats it,

[nosoup4crr]

With my hunter alt, I noticed that I could kill locks, of equal level, with relative ease...until level 40-42. At this level, the locks get soul link AND deathcoil. After this, it's a 50/50 shot for me. many times, it comes down to whether or not I get a scatter off on them while they attempt to fear...(I don't have BW or TBW yet...level 39. I'm not sure how much it would change after these).

[Toxicshadow]

Warlock = Fear
That's what warlocks can do, take that away and they're worthless.
A dualwielding fury warrior can simply let auto attack take out most warlocks while blocking their fears - they wont stand a chance unless far better geared and talented for taking on warriors (In all the time I played my warrior as a lvl 60 fury twink I was killed by a warlock ONCE out of thousands of BGs..)

Then again.. I know I generally own at PvP, and that I was prolly lucky to not get resisted.. but doesn't it seem A BIT overpowered that my lvl 13 warlock was able to take out an otherwise very skilled lvl 20 mage? Fear'n'dot, fear'n'dot..

Oh and I'll simply hear no talk of that hunters aren't overpowered. If a hunter has to kill a high lvl mob, all he needs to do is clear a path to a road so that he can kite it to the nearest city, and I got footage of world-bosses in SW to back that up!
That, and the fact that they can kill a warlock.

[lordbigchang]

Theres no OP class. Its like rock-paper-scissors. When somone beat u with paper when u have rock, U dont cry "Wtf nub!!! papers should be nerfed!!"

[Idol]

Oh and I'll simply hear no talk of that hunters aren't overpowered. If a hunter has to kill a high lvl mob, all he needs to do is clear a path to a road so that he can kite it to the nearest city, and I got footage of world-bosses in SW to back that up!
That, and the fact that they can kill a warlock.

My friend has kited elite dragonkin from Winterspring to Orgrimmar on his Shaman.

[Farq]

pfft, warlock & hunters OP'd... yea right...

every class has a weakness, and some classes have abilities that help them in different ways.. if you cant find a way to break through the barrier so to speak, then you are going to die, plain and simple..

dont go crying for the nerf bat just cause you got pwned :)

[Magikhat]

There are classes that are better in pvp than others. You simply can not make a balanced PVP game when the game engine is built around PVE and balance them both out.

[amgyn]

There are classes that are better in pvp than others. You simply can not make a balanced PVP game when the game engine is built around PVE and balance them both out.

i agree 100% with this statement...

classes that are made for pvp include rogue, warlock and hunter... no matter what spec they can pretty much handle themselves in pvp situation...

most other classes have to spec and get good gear to be good in pvp...

[Woodlander]

With my hunter alt, I noticed that I could kill locks, of equal level, with relative ease...until level 40-42. At this level, the locks get soul link AND deathcoil. After this, it's a 50/50 shot for me. many times, it comes down to whether or not I get a scatter off on them while they attempt to fear...(I don't have BW or TBW yet...level 39. I'm not sure how much it would change after these).

It changes A LOT. At the lower levels I used to own lock with relative ease, mainly because locks are a complicated class that takes SKILL to play well. (If you don't attempt to charm me with your succ you need practice.) Then it was all chain fear, DoT, DoT, Felguard, DoT, dead. Those 18 seconds of fear immunity make all the difference and even make me question my original plan to go MM spec. Honestly each class has it's weakness, I got killed once by a mage who was EXTREMELY skilled, keeping himself at that 8yd range at all times and kiting me like nobody's business. I was very impressed and not at all upset to be smacked by someone like that.

[Icefrost]

Theres no OP class. Its like rock-paper-scissors.
A valid logic. And as much as I'd like to believen in it, I have yet to find any class that seems to be an easy target for me in the same way as I tend to be a free kill to warlocks and shadow priests. (yeah, I guess I didn't mention that shadow priests are even worse than warlocks for me)
Don't get me wrong though. I'm not asking for free target practice, but in all honesty, if anything but those two classes still has a well over 50% chance to beat the crap out of me, I fail to see where my character makes up for her weaknesses.

[timebomb]

no offence if im wrong, but this is a joke thread right?

Every one knows locks are OP. If they were not then people would not say they were. All you have to do is read or roll one to 70 to find out. We may find things differant when every one is sporting 25 man raid gear. For now tho you know its true.

[Toolio]

There are classes that are better in pvp than others. You simply can not make a balanced PVP game when the game engine is built around PVE and balance them both out.

QFT

The way I see PVP w/ my hunter is that if I get the jump on you, regardless of your class, you'll get beat. If you get the jump on me you have odds, but it's still not over. ( ;

[fzyx]

...now all i do is 'coil them chain fear +DoT.

As a lvl 35 mage, every class is overpowered to me in 1v1 pvp, other than maybe warriors (though I've never fought one in pvp). Then again, I think warriors know that and don't attack me in pvp.

Frost Nova and sheep are practically useless against any other pvp class. Without those I'm fighting a powerful pet and the lock with practically no tools, and contrary to popular belief not all mages can do instant 7k crits.

Groups are different.

[Xmcdaniel]

Warlocks are considered OP in PvP situations because they can dish out mass DPS on another player, and the other player (who is getting chain feared by the lock) has no control over his/her actions. I've also heard that at level 70, Locks are out-dpsing mages which is ridiculous.

[SwervinCL]

Apparently Druids were OP..... :rolleyes:

[AeroJonesy]

Yeah, but they are at the bottom of the 3v3 and 5v5 arena population for the top ranking teams. Sometimes I wonder what pvp is balanced around. Surely it's not 1v1, but it doesn't seem like it's 3v3 or 5v5 either.

[fzyx]

As a lvl 35 mage, every class is overpowered to me in 1v1 pvp, other than maybe warriors (though I've never fought one in pvp). Then again, I think warriors know that and don't attack me in pvp.

Frost Nova and sheep are practically useless against any other pvp class. Without those I'm fighting a powerful pet and the lock with practically no tools, and contrary to popular belief not all mages can do instant 7k crits.

Groups are different.

The other point I'd make is that a lvl 70 mage is alot different from a lvl 35 mage, just as a 70 warlock is alot different from a 35 warlock (I assume). I'm not sure how blizzard attempts to balance classes or at which levels, but I think its practically impossible to balance 7 (or whatever) classes from level 1-70 across pvp, pve, arena, bg, etc... So personally, when I complain that locks/hunters/druids/pally's are overpowered, I'm talking about at lvl 35 and world pvp. And given the incredible number of things Blizzard has to balance in the game, I don't actually blame them for it. And I'm not whining. But I do consider it a point of fact that locks are overpowered when compared to another mid-30's level mage.

[nosoup4crr]

no offence if im wrong, but this is a joke thread right?

Every one knows locks are OP. If they were not then people would not say they were. All you have to do is read or roll one to 70 to find out. We may find things differant when every one is sporting 25 man raid gear. For now tho you know its true.

That's bad logic. Every class has been called overpowered at one point or another--mainly because someone got messed up by a player with much greater skill than himself. Warlocks are not overpowered. A good warrior will beat even a good warlock more often than not. A good hunter will beat him from time to time (depending on spec). For the 5-10% of players who are skilled with their class, they will beat a player of average skill 2/3 of the time, no matter what class they are.

Heart made up statistics.

[Pwnzaurs]

wow omg the whole purpose of this thread was to say there is no OP class, and just if u keep getting beat by 1 or 2 certan classes then find that classes weakness...

[timebomb]

That's bad logic. Every class has been called overpowered at one point or another--mainly because someone got messed up by a player with much greater skill than himself. Warlocks are not overpowered. A good warrior will beat even a good warlock more often than not. A good hunter will beat him from time to time (depending on spec). For the 5-10% of players who are skilled with their class, they will beat a player of average skill 2/3 of the time, no matter what class they are.

Heart made up statistics.

just so i have this right.

locks are not OP because you can be beat by a good warrior and some times a good hunter.
and
5-10% of players who are skilled with there class will beat a player of average skill 2/3 times.

ok. i dont know what your idea of OP is but any more OP than that and locks are the hero class.

is this an april fools thread?

I am not over powered but 1.5 other classes have a chance to beat my class. <---- = OP.

[fzyx]

That's bad logic. Every class has been called overpowered at one point or another--mainly because someone got messed up by a player with much greater skill than himself. Warlocks are not overpowered. A good warrior will beat even a good warlock more often than not. A good hunter will beat him from time to time (depending on spec). For the 5-10% of players who are skilled with their class, they will beat a player of average skill 2/3 of the time, no matter what class they are.

Heart made up statistics.

Every class probably has been overpowered, or more importantly every class has probably been underpowered at some point in the game. Its just a fact of life. At the moment warlock's are not underpowered, and since there are underpowered classes like mages in same-level pvp 1v1, it makes sense that there are also overpowered classes. Even the statement "a good warrior will beat even a good warlock more often than not" implies that there is something special about warlock's (-even- a good warlock).

My theory is that blizzard likes to rotate the overpowered classes to get new users in and invested in their classes before they rotate the overpowered class to something else. How many warlock players would keep playing to level 70 if they consistently lost to every other class? But check back in a year and I bet things will be different.

[AeroJonesy]

My theory is that blizzard likes to rotate the overpowered classes to get new users in and invested in their classes before they rotate the overpowered class to something else. How many warlock players would keep playing to level 70 if they consistently lost to every other class? But check back in a year and I bet things will be different.

I think it's far less sinister than that. It's just as time goes on, and people get better gear, and get used to playing the latest changes made by Blizz, certain classes start to stand out more than others, so Blizz decides to get everyone back in line again with changes, until a different class stands out. Or if they see one lagging behind, they'll give them a buff.

[fzyx]

I think it's far less sinister than that. It's just as time goes on, and people get better gear, and get used to playing the latest changes made by Blizz, certain classes start to stand out more than others, so Blizz decides to get everyone back in line again with changes, until a different class stands out. Or if they see one lagging behind, they'll give them a buff.

Maybe, but I still prefer the sinister theory :) It also keeps the game interesting because the number of users of the different classes balance out over time. I rarely run into mages at this point and the ones I do see are 60+. But every other character I pass is a warlock, hunter, or rogue.

[zzzzzzz]

no offence if im wrong, but this is a joke thread right?

Every one knows locks are OP. If they were not then people would not say they were. All you have to do is read or roll one to 70 to find out. We may find things differant when every one is sporting 25 man raid gear. For now tho you know its true.


Give me a break! I play a 70 lock and for you to say they are overpowered even at level 70 is not even close to correct. Granted at lower levels I could handle most classes but at 70 it pretty much balances out. Warriors pawn me most of the time because they have so many ways to break and become immune to fear. Hunters can just kite me and Rogues, hell rogues are pretty much impossible now with their one minute cooldown of CoS. I win my fair share of battles just like I do with my other toons but nothing anymore different.

People like you that go around saying that one class is OP is the reason why there are unnecessary nerf's (hence the warrior rage nerf earlier) and end up being a shortage in these classes when trying to run instances again the warrior class. Its hard to find a good warrior to run an instance now because alot of warriors quit leveling because they felt gimped. It does seem to be getting better since they gave them back some of their rage abilitily.

Quit whining about how a class is OP and learned to find their weakness. Maybe your a certain class that a lock can usually take most of the time that doesn't mean they are OP! If that was the case then each class would be considered OP'ed as each class has an opposite class that they can handle better then another.

[Icefrost]

My theory is that blizzard likes to rotate the overpowered classes to get new users in and invested in their classes before they rotate the overpowered class to something else.
Yet still some classes have been getting the short end of the stick all along while the opposite is true for a select few others.

[fzyx]

Yet still some classes have been getting the short end of the stick all along while the opposite is true for a select few others.

Seems to me the game started out with a couple select classes being overpowered and a couple underpowered, over the years blizz has tipped the scales the other way. But I don't know, I've only been playing since december so can only speak to the current state of things from my mid-lvl perspective.

[timebomb]

Give me a break! I play a 70 lock and for you to say they are overpowered even at level 70 is not even close to correct. Granted at lower levels I could handle most classes but at 70 it pretty much balances out. Warriors pawn me most of the time because they have so many ways to break and become immune to fear. Hunters can just kite me and Rogues, hell rogues are pretty much impossible now with their one minute cooldown of CoS. I win my fair share of battles just like I do with my other toons but nothing anymore different.

People like you that go around saying that one class is OP is the reason why there are unnecessary nerf's (hence the warrior rage nerf earlier) and end up being a shortage in these classes when trying to run instances again the warrior class. Its hard to find a good warrior to run an instance now because alot of warriors quit leveling because they felt gimped. It does seem to be getting better since they gave them back some of their rage abilitily.

Quit whining about how a class is OP and learned to find their weakness. Maybe your a certain class that a lock can usually take most of the time that doesn't mean they are OP! If that was the case then each class would be considered OP'ed as each class has an opposite class that they can handle better then another.

OK so we have a second lock that has a hard time with warriors. and a lock being kited seems a bit odd seeing how all you have to do is DOT them up and run lol. and a rogue beats anyone if they catch you with your pants down. so i still fail to see how your not OP.

In my opinion there are a couple things that could make locks balenced.

1. Any and all damge breaks fear
2. DOT's stop if lock dies

Now, that will make me happy.

[laffncry]

Seems to me the game started out with a couple select classes being overpowered and a couple underpowered, over the years blizz has tipped the scales the other way. But I don't know, I've only been playing since december so can only speak to the current state of things from my mid-lvl perspective.

The reality is this, whatever blizzard do in balancing the classes, they can't please everyone. When they buff a certain class some would argue that they are OP. They would demand nerf on the latter and ask for buffs. The cycle goes on and on.

They can't grant everybody's wish to win the lottery coz' it would be chaos. Get the point?

[fzyx]

The reality is this, whatever blizzard do in balancing the classes, they can't please everyone. When they buff a certain class some would argue that they are OP. They would demand nerf on the latter and ask for buffs. The cycle goes on and on.

They can't grant everybody's wish to win the lottery coz' it would be chaos. Get the point?

Yeah, I get the point. Certain classes are currently buffed and certain classes are currently nerfed. The buffed classes have the advantage. And the cycle goes on and on. That was my point earlier in the thread.

[Penny]

Rock: That Paper class - it's so overpowered!
Scissors: Oh, I don't know... I personally think YOUR class needs to be nerfed.
Paper: I'm thinking it's your class, Scissors.

[fzyx]

Rock: That Paper class - it's so overpowered!
Scissors: Oh, I don't know... I personally think YOUR class needs to be nerfed.
Paper: I'm thinking it's your class, Scissors.

Now lets say somebody suddenly starts making paper out of kevlar instead of wood pulp. Scissors will be pissed (well, maybe not, I don't really know if you can cut kevlar with scissors or whether it is just high tensile strength or something, but you get my point).

[Icefrost]

When they buff a certain class some would argue that they are OP.Then again, believe it or not, there are people who really wouldn't mind seeing some class get a buff even if its not the one they happen to be playing, nor the one that beats them up every time.Rock: That Paper class - it's so overpowered!
Scissors: Oh, I don't know... I personally think YOUR class needs to be nerfed.
Paper: I'm thinking it's your class, Scissors.Getting kinda repeative here, but my rock has yet to find his scissors. That is the part that feels unfair, not the fact that paper beats me.

[fzyx]

Then again, believe it or not, there are people who really wouldn't mind seeing some class get a buff even if its not the one they happen to be playing, nor the one that beats them up every time.Getting kinda repeative here, but my rock has yet to find his scissors. That is the part that that feels unfair, not the fact that paper beats me.

I think I can guess icefrost, but what class are you?

[Tanitha]

I think I can guess icefrost, but what class are you?

Druid. My one true nemesis. Apart from Hunters, of course. But I just cannot tell you how much I loathe druids. They are just so - adaptable. The things they do to me in PvP cannot be typed in polite words. Shred. Mangle. Dead Warlock. All the time. The only Druids I can face are too many levels below me to make it worth the killing.

[Icefrost]

Druid. My one true nemesis.

We got a winner. But what's all this "I think I can guess" -stuff about?

[Tanitha]

We got a winner. But what's all this "I think I can guess" -stuff about?

Probably because Druids have always seemed to get the short end of the stick and are reasonably vocal about it? (I disagree, they're a brilliant class, just not right for my mentality to play though)

[shifttusk]

I agree man! There is no such thing as OP. those people just have to learn how to play good. Eating you one time doesn't mean that he/she is OP.:ponder:

Completely agree, I was dueling outside of ogrimar the other day while waiting for my HS to come up and I was just wrecking people outside. (70 hunter obnoxious master specced). There was another level 70 hunter who came out to "show me whats up" and i proceeded to pound his face in 2-3 times untill i let him win one (read didnt blow any CD's just shot him back and forth). He proceeded to then blame it on yea your spec is OP if you don't use cooldowns you get beat. So we duled again and then I proceeded to beat him using no CD's. I would break his AS by getting out of range and flit in and out of range arcane and multishotting him down. He then blamed it on gear. So I inspected him he is in 4/9 t3 1/5 t4 and mixed kara epics with the bow from later in kara thats a 77dps or so wepon. I'm in 4/5 my dungeon 3 set level 70 pvp bracers and boots with valanos longbow. I laughed at this point.

Point being there are people who are good players, there are people that arent but more importantly there are people who whine and QQ about alot. This happens in wow and IRL. The fact is the can't do mentality catches up to you eventualy.

[fzyx]

We got a winner. But what's all this "I think I can guess" -stuff about?

I was actually wrong, thought you were a fellow mage. I was guessing based on your name "IceFrost", as in the frost tree of mages.

FWIW - Druids get out of any snare I have for them, and tend to kill me quickly after. Not to mention the stealth abilities.

[Oatmealsmurf]

zzzzz... don't waste your time with replies. Timebomb shows up every couple of months to whine about something new. Just let him be. He doesn't feel right if he doesn't believe he has the short end of the stick.

[Icefrost]

I was actually wrong, thought you were a fellow mage. I was guessing based on your name "IceFrost", as in the frost tree of mages.

FWIW - Druids get out of any snare I have for them, and tend to kill me quickly after. Not to mention the stealth abilities.

Well you missed the jackpot (which went to Tanitha:wink: ), but not by far. My "main alt" or "other main" or whatever you wanna call 'em happens to be a mage. And frost specced indeed.:cool:

[zzzzzzz]

zzzzz... don't waste your time with replies. Timebomb shows up every couple of months to whine about something new. Just let him be. He doesn't feel right if he doesn't believe he has the short end of the stick.


Guy just doesn't have a clue. Lets just make everyone the same class so that we don't have anyone like Timebomb complaining about OP. Now there is true balance! Boring but Balanced.

[Chemm]

I tend to not whine OP but whine my class is Underpowered, under appericated, and forgotten by blizzard...

I will say i'm not the best at pvp but when I'm out grinding it is rediculous, I get ganked usually every 15-20minutes anywhere, by any class, because I'm spec'd to raid it makes me insanely underpowered in pvp, rogues 4 levels below me don't have too much of a problem with me, other classes that catch me in the middle of a fight will be about 95% of the time, I have 7k health buffed, and if my inner fire is up only 2.5k armor, if not I'm at 950 armor.

Rogues eat me alive now since CLoS came out and I can no longer fear and dot them...

Honestly blizzard needs to improve the priests talent trees overall, I understand balance but the fact the only class I have a chance to beat in a 1 on 1 more then not is a paladin, and that probably is because horde doesn't have a lot of experianced pvp paladins...

/whine

[nosoup4crr]

just so i have this right.

locks are not OP because you can be beat by a good warrior and some times a good hunter.
and
5-10% of players who are skilled with there class will beat a player of average skill 2/3 times.

ok. i dont know what your idea of OP is but any more OP than that and locks are the hero class.

is this an april fools thread?

I am not over powered but 1.5 other classes have a chance to beat my class. <---- = OP.


Every class has a chance to beat you. If you're of average skill, a good player has a great chance to beat you...no matter what his class is. And even if you're of good skills, a warrior and some hunters will consistently beat you. Other classes will beat you less often--but they will still beat you. And even when you do win against someone of comparable skill, you won't demolish them.

If locks consistently demolished other classes, played by someone of comparable skill, that would be overpowered. Simply winning in duels, more often than not, makes them stronger than other classes--not overpowered. There's a difference. "Overpowered" entails that there's something wrong with game mechanics such that locks (or whatever class you're talking about) have upset the balance of the game and REQUIRE fixing.

I'm sorry...but a class who appears at the top of the killing blows and damage done charts in BG's only as often 2 or 3 other classes (See hunters, mages, druids...dependiing on BG), a class who is always killed first or second in skirmishes (see arena), or a class who's substantially behind the hunter in PvE survivability and grinding times, is NOT overpowered.

[Arthengel]

As a warrior I don't think there is an overpowered class really. But I do have a nemesis class in pvp of course, druids!!!

I dont mind fighting any clothie, because I know if I manage to stay at melee range, I'll be killing them. Locks are not a problem at all since I can have 40 seconds of fear immunity. But i dont beat them all the time of course. Rogues are no big deal, a good stun-lock will kill me, but when I'm out I kill them. A paladin is a long and boring fight.

But with druids, I get very uneasy. When they are in cat, moonkin, or caster forms i am happy. When they are at 30%, they cast a HoT on themselves, then go bear. Ok, now I am fighting a plate wearer. I do less damage, take less damage, i fear, bandage, he goes out to caster and roots me, etc...etc...etc... I was losing 80% of the duels. I didn't duel a druid since the last patch, because i specced prot. but will try in these days.

[Vindictive]

I remember the days ages ago when Shamans were the OP class and everyone whined about it. Now look at shamans...

[Toolio]

Nerf bards.

[timebomb]

Guy just doesn't have a clue. Lets just make everyone the same class so that we don't have anyone like Timebomb complaining about OP. Now there is true balance! Boring but Balanced.

HMMM. I'm exulted with 3 BG factions and i do a butt load of would PVP. Me and 90% of the people who post about OP class have to be wrong.

You guys want to make me out to be out of line, your welcome to your opinion.

like i stated before lets wait a see how things are when every one is running around in 25 man gear. Things may balance out then. I gave my opinion on how to fix the lock class but it was ignored and i was called a whinner.

I am sure most of the people in the game play locks for the fact that they will get group easy in raids.

I say locks are OP 1 vs. 1. in group PVP they blow nuts.

[Foonyak]

I say locks are OP 1 vs. 1. in group PVP they blow *self-censored*.

Overpowered usually means no matter what, that class will win. Here you state that in group PvP (which a lot of world PvP is, unless you happen to get ganked/corpse-camped) locks are utter poo. Please elaborate on how an 'utter-poo' class is overpowered.

[Oatmealsmurf]

Timebob

This is just your flavor of the month whine. Before it was Hunters.. before that it was someone else. exalted in BG factions just means you spent time there. Doesn't mean you have any greater perspective on the subject.

The change you propose would break the class for pvp and some of or pve utility as well for all but the very good lock players. You just want free HKs again... Locks don't have any snares or roots (unless you spec affliction and get CoEx)... Locks only have one instant nuke that is also a talent. We have no easy way to remove snares or roots... dependent on the pet we choose.... and no way to break stuns.

So basically you want to turn locks into a cloth wearing class without the ability to kite, melee, root, or create breathing room. Let's turn locks in to mages without any of the defensive abilities or burst damage. Yeah sounds good /endsarcasm... There are game mechanics that allow you to break fear. If you're unprepared for it that's your own fault. Sorry but yes you are whining.

[moopy]

Timebob

This is just your flavor of the month whine. Before it was Hunters.. before that it was someone else. exalted in BG factions just means you spent time there. Doesn't mean you have any greater perspective on the subject.

Pot, kettle.

[Oatmealsmurf]

Not following your assertion here... I don't claim that any class is overpowered and I don't claim that any in game achievement makes me better qualified to comment.

[timebomb]

i have run into locks that are able to beat you with out fear. This says some thing about the class IMO. and about hunters lol all you have to do is ask a hunter he'll admit to being well off in PVP. its the locks who lie about it.

yes it take a good lock to win with out fear. but any nub can fear kite.

I posted my experiance in hopes to make my view more valid than just calling names and coming up nothing of substance.

[fzyx]

and about hunters lol all you have to do is ask a hunter he'll admit to being well off in PVP. its the locks who lie about it.

I agree.

I think the important thing to remember is that it is just a normal cycle of the game. There is nothing really wrong with a lock being overpowered in world 1v1 (call it -stronger- if you really want) because I think everybody agrees they have their own issues in other aspects of the game. I know that if I'm still playing in a year, I'm going to enjoy chasing down locks/hunters 3 levels above me with my mage. Or at least running beside them from whatever other class is then overpowered.

[Oatmealsmurf]

No you miss the point entirely. This is not about completely killing people while they are stuck in fear. Not to mention any player worth his salt in pvp will be prepared for fear when confronting a lock and won't allow themselves to be fear kited for the entire fight.

If you find yourself in a constant state of fear then the problem is your own tactics.

Here is the problem with your proposal... if any damage whatsoever breaks fear that means locks cannot DoT if they want to use fear at all. If you have 4 DoTs ticking on someone, fear will break immediately after it's cast... rendering it completly and utterly useless. And unless they are affliction specced they have no other way of creating space.... period. This would also effect priests... Mages get Frost Nova and Blink.

You cannot take away fear without giving locks another viable way to lock people down... you want to give us a frost nova like talent... fine... but you cannot take away our only method of cross spec crowd control.

But like I said... the bottomline is at the end of the day locks really aren't' overpowered. At lvl 60 yes they are overpowered... at level 70 hardly. You just always have something to complain about. Hunters aren't overpowered either... and they don't claim to be... that's just your anecdotal way of trying to use a straw man argument to impugn locks.

And even CoEx means jack if someone has you hamstrung, chilled, wing clipped, slowed, rooted, frost shocked or has crippling poison on you. Without fear Locks would be worthless... again to all but the very best players... but those players will beat you no matter which class they're playing. I suspect you're dying to locks who use fear as an offensive opener rather than defensive... and if that's the case you need to brush up on your skills.

[fzyx]

Not to mention any player worth his salt in pvp will be prepared for fear when confronting a lock and won't allow themselves to be fear kited for the entire fight.
...
At lvl 60 yes they are overpowered
...

Two questions :

1) What tools does a lvl 37 mage have to prepare for fear?

2) Why do you say lvl 60 locks are overpowered, and would you extend that to lower levels as well?

[Oatmealsmurf]

Two questions :

1) What tools does a lvl 37 mage have to prepare for fear?

2) Why do you say lvl 60 locks are overpowered, and would you extend that to lower levels as well?


1. Locks were designed to destroy mages... there is no good defense for an mage against an equally skilled and geared lock.

2. Because the game is balanced around lvl 70 now. When 2.0 came out Locks got a lot of great offensive abilities incorporated into their revamped talent trees. (Felguard, UA, Instant HoT, Shadowfury, Demonic Knowledge, Demonic Aegis). It really ramped up our damage capabilities and CC abilities which of course made us devestating in PvP. A lot of the other classes didn't receive great 41 point talents (hunters bing the exception) for pvp.

The flipside is our new trainable skills are pve oriented and don't benefit us in the slightest in pvp... at 66 we got Soul Shatter and at 68 Well of Souls then at 70 we got Seed of Corruption (but that's not useful in the slightest in 1 v 1). Meanwhile Mages picked up Icelance, Rogues picked up Cloak of Shadows, Priest got Shadow Word Death etc.

Also there is way more stamina out there now. I've seen mages running around with 8k health. At level 60 we could throw three dots on someone and forget about em. Not so much the case anymore... It takes longer to kill people, there are more ways to get rid of our dots and break fears, fights take a little bit longer and diminishing returns are much more of a factor.

I would say locks start becoming dominant forces in PvP at level 42 when they get death coil and really become overpowered once they hit level 50 and get their 41 point talents. But the playing field levels more and more the further you go past 60.

But that's no different than other brackets... rogues and hunters own levels 10-29 easily.

[nosoup4crr]

and about hunters lol all you have to do is ask a hunter he'll admit to being well off in PVP. its the locks who lie about it.

There's a difference b/w being "well off" and being overpowered. I agree that hunters and locks are well of in PvP. But their advantage does not merit patch/change/etc. Therefore, not overpowered.

[Malentra]

Two questions :

1) What tools does a lvl 37 mage have to prepare for fear?

2) Why do you say lvl 60 locks are overpowered, and would you extend that to lower levels as well?

1) Will of the Forsaken and PvP Trinket. Additionally, speccing frost will give you a huge edge against warlocks. Ice Barrier and Ice Block do wonders against locks. Combined with polymorph, nice shatter crits, a CS on their Shadow school, and fire ward, you can hurt them badly.

The difference between a lock and mage is that it takes a very good mage to beat a lock, but an average lock can still beat a good mage. (but not always)

And with a Felhunter out, Locks become twice as hard to kill.

2) Fear makes locks very powerful at low levels. Death Coil enters the picture right when classes start getting abilities to counter fear (interrupts, stuns, etc.) Recent nerfs to Fear have made it a bit more balanced skill, but overall its one of the most effective PvP skills in the game.

[fzyx]

...informative stuff deleted...

Thanks, that helps clear things up. I think I've come to terms with my issues with balancing between classes now. Especially knowing that it is intentional and not my imagination.

[fzyx]

1) Will of the Forsaken and PvP Trinket. Additionally, speccing frost will give you a huge edge against warlocks. Ice Barrier and Ice Block do wonders against locks. Combined with polymorph, nice shatter crits, a CS on their Shadow school, and fire ward, you can hurt them badly.

The difference between a lock and mage is that it takes a very good mage to beat a lock, but an average lock can still beat a good mage. (but not always)

And with a Felhunter out, Locks become twice as hard to kill.

2) Fear makes locks very powerful at low levels. Death Coil enters the picture right when classes start getting abilities to counter fear (interrupts, stuns, etc.) Recent nerfs to Fear have made it a bit more balanced skill, but overall its one of the most effective PvP skills in the game.

Its the pets that always do me in, if only because of the flustration aspect of dealing with two casters. Anyway, thx for the tips.

[rgirty]

1v1 I believe for the most part it is skill. There are however certain classes that do very well against others.

In battlegrounds I believe it is who gets the jump first, it seems that the element of surprise is the biggest advantage. In world or bg pvp. In straight up duels thats a diff story.

[Oatmealsmurf]

basically... first blow is big advantage no matter what your class is. Especially when the enemy doesn't see it coming.

[Icefrost]

If you find yourself in a constant state of fear then the problem is your own tactics.

I don't see what is wrong with my tactics when I still have exactly one trinket that breaks fear once and nothing to do about the other 3 fears and that death coil. (not playing undead and my skills have exactly nothing to break it with either) And if a fear/psychic scream actually lasts less than 5-7 seconds on me it must be my once-a-month lucky day.

[Ryste]

Two questions :

1) What tools does a lvl 37 mage have to prepare for fear?

2) Why do you say lvl 60 locks are overpowered, and would you extend that to lower levels as well?

1) counter spell, stay more than 20-24 yards away.

[Ergundergun]

warlocks are overpowered. thats it

[fzyx]

1) counter spell, stay more than 20-24 yards away.

That's right about the range of their pet though isn't it?

[Oatmealsmurf]

usually it seems like it's longer than it is. But Icefrost... which class are you speaking of? I know you said you have two classes (one being a mage). As I stated... a mage doesn't really matter. It's very hard for a mage to turn a fight around against a lock once the lock has seized control of it even if the lock is marginally skilled. That's just class dynamics... but a big thing with the mage is CSing the shadow school. Do that and you don't have to worry about fear. If you're on another class use whatever you have to interupt it. Secondly a 6 second fear will net two ticks of a DoT ... 3 if staggerd optimally. If you break fear the first time 6 seconds is the most you can be feared for on the second. You get practically nothing out of a fear on the third one and then you are immune. There are lots of ways to combat fear you just have to figure out your approach.

I think a lot of people do what I do sometimes... forget to equip their trinkets for one...

[fzyx]

As I stated... a mage doesn't really matter. It's very hard for a mage to turn a fight around against a lock once the lock has seized control of it even if the lock is marginally skilled. ...

Not to harp on it, but "It's very hard for a mage to turn a fight around against a lock once the lock has seized control of it even if the lock is marginally skilled." To the OP, are you even still reading?

[Oatmealsmurf]

Well I know he mentioned in another thread he plays a second class as well. But it's important to know the difference... just because a mage has a really hard time with locks doesn't make them overpowered. If that were the case the Mages are overpowered because warriors can't do jack to them if the mage knows what he's doing.

[murderousmic]

I'm overpowered. Fear me.

[Altaris]

Paladins are overpowered. Nerf us paladins. Take away our bubblehearth!

Shadow Priests are overpowered. Nerf us shadow priests. Take away our fears!

Locks are overpowered. Nerf us locks. Take away our pets!

Hunters are overpowered. Nerf us hunters. Take away our traps!

Rogues are overpowered. Nerf us rogues. Take away our stealth!

Droods are overpowered. Nerf us droods. Take away our cat forms!

Warriors are overpowered. Nerf us warriors. Take away our dual wield!

Shamans are overpowered. Nerf us shamans. Take away our totems!

Mages are overpowered. Nerf us mages. Take away our crowd control!

Did I miss anyone?

[fzyx]

Well I know he mentioned in another thread he plays a second class as well. But it's important to know the difference... just because a mage has a really hard time with locks doesn't make them overpowered. If that were the case the Mages are overpowered because warriors can't do jack to them if the mage knows what he's doing.

From my experience so far up to lvl 37, a mage/warrior fight is usually pretty fair unlike a lock/mage or hunter/mage.

What tools do mages have that make them more overpowered against warriors than locks are against warriors?

[Icefrost]

I know you said you have two classes (one being a mage). As I stated... a mage doesn't really matter.

Actually I am speaking of my druid, who likes to sneak on enemies from behind, toss on an up to 4-10 second worth of stuns and still ends up dead every single time the target was a warlock or shadow priest of nearly equal (from below) level.
I have also witnessed it to be true that a druid's shapeshifts reset the "fearcount", which means that since I'm the type of druid who likes to shapeshift a lot, most fear effects practically always count as being the first of the stack on me.

[Altaris]

From my experience so far up to lvl 37, a mage/warrior fight is usually pretty fair unlike a lock/mage or hunter/mage.

What tools do mages have that make them more overpowered against warriors than locks are against warriors?

War's can break fear, but not usually sheep/frost. As a pally I can own most mages in BG, mostly due to BoF. But not so for Hunters. :( As a lock, I found rogues owned me the most. As a rogue, I got owned by everything because I sucked at the class. As a hunter... I pwnz all! :thumbsup: Because I let everyone else on my team run up while I rain hell from behind the lines.

[Oatmealsmurf]

Frost nova, frost bolts and blink. You can kite warriors all day on a mage... and if things get too rough you can just sheep them heal up and start the fight over.

[Altaris]

Just in case it wasn't clear, my earlier post was in jest. I agree there are no OP classes.

[Oatmealsmurf]

Actually I am speaking of my druid, who likes to sneak on enemies from behind, toss on an up to 4-10 second worth of stuns and still ends up dead every single time the target was a warlock or shadow priest of nearly equal (from below) level.
I have also witnessed it to be true that a druid's shapeshifts reset the "fearcount", which means that since I'm the type of druid who likes to shapeshift a lot, most fear effects practically always count as being the first of the stack on me.

Okay I was guessing Drood... but I wasn't sure. I would have to say it's your tactics then. 1 v 1 Druids are an absolute pain in the butt... I'm not familiar enough with each of their individual abilities or their trees to really give you step by step sound advice but I know I have both experienced and witnessed many a druid simply outlasting a lock's mana. And that should be your focus... not quick kills or attempting to stun lock. It won't work... most rogues have a tough time doing a complete stunlock and you need a complete stunlock to avoid Deathcoil. What you want to try and do is get the lock to blow his mana while you keep yourself healed... be patient. Nothing worse than blowing half your mana and almost killing a druid only to have him get off a big heal and be back at full health.

I've never heard of fear resetting on shape shifts though and haven't noticed it either... I'll have to check that out or maybe someone else here can confirm that. I would reckon if that is true it's not supposed to be that way.

[Icefrost]

I know I have both experienced and witnessed many a druid simply outlasting a lock's mana.

Don't know what the hell happened there but when I try outlasting a lock, not only do I get 3(2 with trinket) fears on me while I'm still in bearform (where I presumably started the battle) and when I shift out to heal (yeah, I have to do that. no magic reduction on bears, remember?) I get another 3 fears on me. And that's when I'm back at my caster HP, not the 10k+ in bearform. If I'm lucky enough to get out and blow a NS+HT for a quick insta heal, I'm just gonna get the same run over again when I shift again to be able to take the incoming dps.

And oh, guess what happens then? Lifetap!

[fzyx]

Frost nova, frost bolts and blink. You can kite warriors all day on a mage... and if things get too rough you can just sheep them heal up and start the fight over.

Maybe, in reality the tools don't seem to work reliably but I have alot to learn. Anyway, I shouldn't have gotten involved in this again, we already agreed on the important parts.

[Oatmealsmurf]

fzyx... sent you a PM...


Icefrost... well I don't know what to tell you. I just know that Druids are generally an exceptional dueling class. Wish I could offer you more insight but I haven't played a druid. Not saying that fear thing isn't true... just struck me as odd and hadn't noticed. Have you tried rooting the lock and running out of range to heal and do all that so you have time to shift back into your chosen form.

And yeah inevitably we will life tap but that's also volutarily taking a good chunk of HPs off our health meter. I used to get owned repeatedly by druids until I learned to be patient and not blow through my mana too fast going for a quick kill.

[Amurko]

I think the 9 classes as a whole are a lot more balanced now than say a year ago or even 6 months. They're not all on the same level of course but the differences aren't that noticible anymore.

[lordbigchang]

to be honest, I dont like fighting locks. Dot-run is not one of the ways I like to be killed. I get frustrated when im on my hunter with most Agi gears getting killed when i didn have any chance to shoot. But also, I realize they killed killed pretty easily when hes not targetting you

[Rex Normal]

IceFrost, in most cases when I am fighting a druid, I can't get a fear off on them because I get interupted almost every time. If you are in bear form don't stand directly in front of the warlock, crowd him so if your stun is on cooldown you can hope to be able to get behind him where his fear will be broken. You may have to eat a howl of terror, but that has a 40 second cooldown and only 8 second fear. You can kite 'em pretty easily too by jumping into travel form until you are well out of range to heal, just keep running while spamming your instant HoT's if you need to. Good luck.

[Ergundergun]

warlocks are still overpowered

[Oatmealsmurf]

I give up the above posters argument is just too strong.

[fzyx]

I give up the above posters argument is just too strong.

Voting is a valid form of argument isn't it? Sorry, just can't stay out of this thread :)

[Oatmealsmurf]

You see I didn't say anything the first time he said it. Only after he repeated it as if the repetition added more validity to it. :)

[Altaris]

You see I didn't say anything the first time he said it. Only after he repeated it as if the repetition added more validity to it. :)

Repeating a fantasy as if to make it reality is the sure sign of a developing mental trauma. Perhaps the poster is reaffirming his own self worth by repeatedly stating that locks are overpowered in the hopes he can demean all the times he got wtfpwned. :rolleyes:

[fzyx]

Repeating a fantasy as if to make it reality is the sure sign of a developing mental trauma. Perhaps the poster is reaffirming his own self worth by repeatedly stating that locks are overpowered in the hopes he can demean all the times he got wtfpwned. :rolleyes:

Reading other threads on this forum I find two things:

One, people complain about warlocks being overpowered frequently, usually they are not warlocks.

Two, warlocks frequently say things like "it was a difficult run, even for me, and I'm a warlock".

He most likely did not get "wtfpwned" because he sucks, he most likely got "wtfpwned" because warlocks have it easier than most other classes.

[Oatmealsmurf]

PvE and PvP are two different things. Warlocks are exceptional PvE soloers... there is not denying that.

[zzzzzzz]

Reading other threads on this forum I find two things:

One, people complain about warlocks being overpowered frequently, usually they are not warlocks.

Two, warlocks frequently say things like "it was a difficult run, even for me, and I'm a warlock".

He most likely did not get "wtfpwned" because he sucks, he most likely got "wtfpwned" because warlocks have it easier than most other classes.

Fzyx didn't you say that you are only in the mid 30's or so? Please try to level up a bit and see how it rounds out more before claiming how much more easier a lock has it then most classes. Sorry but you haven't experienced the full extent of PvP nor a certain classes abilities to counter any kind of attacks. Thats like saying rogues are OP when your level 19. At level 19 rogues as you would say wtfpwn just about every class as they are the easiest to twink at that level.

Btw if I am wrong and you are a higher level then I appologize.

[fzyx]

Fzyx didn't you say that you are only in the mid 30's or so? Please try to level up a bit and see how it rounds out more before claiming how much more easier a lock has it then most classes. Sorry but you haven't experienced the full extent of PvP nor a certain classes abilities to counter any kind of attacks. Thats like saying rogues are OP when your level 19. At level 19 rogues as you would say wtfpwn just about every class as they are the easiest to twink at that level.

Btw if I am wrong and you are a higher level then I appologize.

You're right, I'm lvl 37. I don't see why it matters though. At level 37 warlocks are overpowered.

And I wouldn't say wtfpwn, I was quoting the other guy. As evidenced by the quotes.

[Oatmealsmurf]

I don't think you will find many people saying warlocks are overpowered at lvl 37. They don't even have Deathcoil yet.

[fzyx]

I don't think you will find many people saying warlocks are overpowered at lvl 37. They don't even have Deathcoil yet.

From a different thread...


I, a level 28 Undead Warlock, decide to take my well earned AB Tokens and make a trip to Hammerfall to buy my Defilers boots. I figure I'll get ganked once or twice on the way so I set soul stone get Big Blue out.
Things are going well and Im about 1/3 of the way through the area before I even seen an Ally. I get to refuge point and what do I see, a level ?? Warrior (Named "BigbadJohn" known hence forth as BBJ). Well, he sees me, i get the obligatory Charge stun and the fight ensues.
I land my first fear fear, big blue is pounding away and DoTs are ticking off. Im moving fast away cause Im sure I cant beat this level ?? warrior. Well, fear breaks, charge again, resists *2* fears and now im at like 250 health. So I sac Big Blue, drop a HS, and fear/Dot once more. This is where it goes bad. BBJ is now at about 33% health and im thinking I may pull this off, when a nasty level 32 spider attacks. Long story short, I get BBJ to about 10% when I die. He starts to camp me as I wait to use SS. About 3 mins into it, he gets distracted and fights the spider that was fighting me, i see my window. I SS, Fear BBJ and run like hell. I make it almost all the way to the farm with the horde ogres in it when he rides next to me on his horse. Fear, run, make it to the farm. *Sheew* NOT. Frost Mage attacks, fear him into all the mobs, level 34 pally attacks, Fear him into the mobs, he Dies. Then BBJ shows up and finishes me again. This time he stands there and does the Cry/Laugh/dance and builds a campfire on my corpse. I release and begin the run back and when i get there I see him fighting the horde ogres again and he is at about 33%. So I rez, Dot/Fear pop a heal and finish him off. The Pally rezzed and tried to take me again, but a quick Fear/dot on him did the trick again.
I healed up, resummoned big blue and made the rest of the way to hammerfall uninterupted and got my defilers boots. Longer story than I intended, but that incident last night makes me want to make my lock my main and shelve my 70 Rogue. I know that the area was a big advantage to me, but I like to think that it took some skill/level headedness to pull that off. (And I know I would have taken BBJ the first time had it not been for that damn spider :( )

[SwervinCL]

Anyone who whines about another class being overpowered needs to work on their tactics a little bit... Anyone can be beaten.

Its like whining when people use Awps in CSS... Dont whine, just find another way to kill them... :2cents:

I always used to think rogues were OP'd.. Until I found a way to beat them... Now I dont even break a sweat as they pick their dead ass body off the ground.

[Eonblue]

Oh god i just cant resist...okay i may add, warlocks are often called OP because i feel they are every classes counter class to some extent. Most classes other than locks I have found, have 2-3 counter classes. Between the locks pets and curses and forms of CC, there is no fight where we dont have a good chance at walking away alive under the proper circumstances, however, we do not excell at anyone class IMO.
In other words, you do not have to be a good player as a lock to beat another average player regularly...whereas say it takes a decent pally to beat a not so decent mage imho (does that mean the mage is OP? Nooooo). The flip side is...a good/great lock vs. good/great any other class, the fight can go either way depending on a lot of things assuming relativly equal gear.
That PLUS the fact that a lot ppl who get pwnd call OP instead of learning to play better.
In summary, lots of lock win against noobs even if they themselves are noobs and it happens enough simply due to the classes design, that results in a lot of noobs (or noobs against locks) loosing and the more ppl loosing to locks, the more ppl there will be to cry OP. But in reality they are just like any other class. If you want to win, it will take a little strat and a little luck, period. Any class can beat a lock if they know what they are doing. Which is true for every class.

[fzyx]

From a different thread...

From the same thread


Aye, I've been enjoying my warlock alt, now 27.

Been attacked my slightly higher level people while fighting mobs and still kill them. Took a +5 hunter on the road in ashenvale the other day. Can't wait till I get skillcoil (ok I hated locks for a long time) or my AOE fear on instant to get that intial clearance.


Not level 37, but same range.

[Altaris]

Reading other threads on this forum I find two things:

One, people complain about warlocks being overpowered frequently, usually they are not warlocks.

Two, warlocks frequently say things like "it was a difficult run, even for me, and I'm a warlock".

He most likely did not get "wtfpwned" because he sucks, he most likely got "wtfpwned" because warlocks have it easier than most other classes.

OK, so my sarcasm was little overboard. I apologize for being a smart alek. It's second nature. :wink:

But fact is, people complain about most classes being over powered.

[Oatmealsmurf]

The warrior clearly sucked balls... The level disparity will result in a lot of spell resists/misses. So if he could get past all that... the warrior was really clueless. Plus he's clearly twinking out his lock in a way not many do if he's making the trek to get his defilers. Anyone who is twinking will be able to take people beyond their level. A twink warrior, rogue, hunter or mage would have done just as well... probably better in fact.

The pally he feared into mobs... so he didn't actually kill the pally... and the second time he got the jump on them when they were below half health.

What I think you have here is an experienced player with gear that is far above average against a horrible pvper in BBJ.

[Oatmealsmurf]

From the same thread



Not level 37, but same range.

You can find these examples for almost any class Fzyx, rogues, hunters, mages, druids, shamans, pallys etc. It happens... doesn't mean it happens consistantly... And if you go up against a bad player... The levels probably won't matter. But these are not regular occurances. People by nature also exaggerate their pvp exploits. That's just a given.

But take me and my warrior who's lvl 39... I make no bones about the fact that I SUCK at pvping with him. I'm sure there is someone out there bragging in a story about how they were 5 levels lower than me and took me out. And they might have... but you know what? Taking me out when I'm on my warrior is no great feat... If you can't take me out when I'm on my warrior you are in trouble on the pvp front LOL... If we take all the stories about me getting owned on my warrior by lower level players... then every class in the game is overpowered.

[Altaris]

If you can't take me out when I'm on my warrior you are in trouble on the pvp front LOL... If we take all the stories about me getting owned on my warrior by lower level players... then every class in the game is overpowered.

Exactly.
QFT.

[fzyx]

You can find these examples for almost any class Fzyx, rogues, hunters, mages, druids, shamans, pallys etc. It happens... doesn't mean it happens consistantly... And if you go up against a bad player... The levels probably won't matter. But these are not regular occurances. People by nature also exaggerate their pvp exploits. That's just a given.

But take me and my warrior who's lvl 39... I make no bones about the fact that I SUCK at pvping with him. I'm sure there is someone out there bragging in a story about how they were 5 levels lower than me and took me out. And they might have... but you know what? Taking me out when I'm on my warrior is no great feat... If you can't take me out when I'm on my warrior you are in trouble on the pvp front LOL... If we take all the stories about me getting owned on my warrior by lower level players... then every class in the game is overpowered.

I actually can't find similar threads for other classes, and unfortunately I did actually just take the time to look :)

[fzyx]

I actually can't find similar threads for other classes, and unfortunately I did actually just take the time to look :)

Maybe rogues and hunters are in the same boat in terms of people crying foul.

In any case, I consider it overpowered if the class has abilities that allow a so-so player to consistently defeat a so-so player 5 levels above him. That doesn't mean the class needs to be nerfed, and it doesn't mean that the other classes need to be buffed. We've already agreed that blizzard has a difficult job of balancing 1v1 pvp, arena, bg, and pve and that the cycle is such that in a year locks will probably be on the other side of the coin.

[zzzzzzz]

Maybe rogues and hunters are in the same boat in terms of people crying foul.

In any case, I consider it overpowered if the class has abilities that allow a so-so player to consistently defeat a so-so player 5 levels above him. That doesn't mean the class needs to be nerfed, and it doesn't mean that the other classes need to be buffed. We've already agreed that blizzard has a difficult job of balancing 1v1 pvp, arena, bg, and pve and that the cycle is such that in a year locks will probably be on the other side of the coin.

Well not sure what your argument is then. Maybe its time to start a lock yourself and see the differences. Experience how if feels when a rogue comes and stun locks you until your dead without getting off one spell. See what it feels like when a warrior hamstrings your then goes immune to fear for 15 seconds while hacking at your internals. I think you will notice with all the fights that you win there are just as many equal fights that you lose.

Another good reason to make a lock is to find his weaknesses. I made a rogue because I had so many issues with them that I wanted to learn them more. People that claim that another class is OP should play the class first to experience what their crutches are.

[timebomb]

Fzyx didn't you say that you are only in the mid 30's or so? Please try to level up a bit and see how it rounds out more before claiming how much more easier a lock has it then most classes. Sorry but you haven't experienced the full extent of PvP nor a certain classes abilities to counter any kind of attacks. Thats like saying rogues are OP when your level 19. At level 19 rogues as you would say wtfpwn just about every class as they are the easiest to twink at that level.

Btw if I am wrong and you are a higher level then I appologize.

This is great advice. So when you have played the game for more than 2 years and do have end game experience then you can give your opinion.

Do you know what they will say to you when you give it? "you’re a whiner"<--

When you’re in your mid 30's your just ignorant but hit 70 and you’re a whiner.

Do you think they would bother arguing the point of being OP if the point did not hold water?

[fzyx]

Well not sure what your argument is then. Maybe its time to start a lock yourself and see the differences. Experience how if feels when a rogue comes and stun locks you until your dead without getting off one spell. See what it feels like when a warrior hamstrings your then goes immune to fear for 15 seconds while hacking at your internals. I think you will notice with all the fights that you win there are just as many equal fights that you lose.

Another good reason to make a lock is to find his weaknesses. I made a rogue because I had so many issues with them that I wanted to learn them more. People that claim that another class is OP should play the class first to experience what their crutches are.

Already did, mostly because I wanted to make one named gargamel, but now I think I'll level him a little to learn about the class.

Oh, and I already know what it feels like when a rogue comes and stun locks you until your dead without getting off one spell :)

My argument, at this point, is essentially something somebody said earlier in the thread. Hunters will happily admit that they have it better than most, most warlocks won't.

[Oatmealsmurf]

I actually can't find similar threads for other classes, and unfortunately I did actually just take the time to look :)

You can start here:

http://forums.worldofwar.net/showthread.php?t=368990

And then you can dig deeper on the pvp forum for the original embarrassing moments in pvp thread where most of the stories tend to be about some higher level character jumping them and killing them but then them coming back and getting their revenge despite the advantage their opposition had.

You really must not have looked very hard... I hear and have read countless stories about great pvp moments. You could spend your whole day watching pvp videos on google where people are bragging (presumably with the video evidence) about whooping people that they shouldn't necessarily win against.

I mean you're taking this to the outer limits now. There is a reason why you don't see a lot of warlock twinks until the 40-49 bracket... and instead you mainly see Warriors, Rogues and Hunters. Most people even remotely thinking about making a lock twink for the brackets below 30-39 are experienced pvpers.

A story here or there about beating higher level toons really means nothing... I have completely embarrassed people on my mage when they were 5-10 levels above me numerous times. Doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things though.

[Ergundergun]

well heres the deal. warlocks....are overpowered.

[Oatmealsmurf]

No one has failed to admit that warlocks don't have it good for pvp. They are an exceptional dueling class. There is a difference from being suited for pvp and being overpowered.

And Timebomb... I just say you are a whiner because that's what you do. You have a pattern of doing it. It's not everyone so please come down off the cross.

[Ergundergun]

OO theyre OP in PvE too. sooooooo in conclusion

Warlocks continue to be overpowered

[fzyx]

You can start here:

http://forums.worldofwar.net/showthread.php?t=368990

And then you can dig deeper on the pvp forum for the original embarrassing moments in pvp thread where most of the stories tend to be about some higher level character jumping them and killing them but then them coming back and getting their revenge despite the advantage their opposition had.

You really must not have looked very hard... I hear and have read countless stories about great pvp moments. You could spend your whole day watching pvp videos on google where people are bragging (presumably with the video evidence) about whooping people that they shouldn't necessarily win against.

I mean you're taking this to the outer limits now. There is a reason why you don't see a lot of warlock twinks until the 40-49 bracket... and instead you mainly see Warriors, Rogues and Hunters. Most people even remotely thinking about making a lock twink for the brackets below 30-39 are experienced pvpers.

A story here or there about beating higher level toons really means nothing... I have completely embarrassed people on my mage when they were 5-10 levels above me numerous times. Doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things though.

You're right, the quotes I posted are not very good evidence.

[Icefrost]

IceFrost, in most cases when I am fighting a druid, I can't get a fear off on them because I get interupted almost every time.Don't know how they pull that off, because every single interrupt ability a druid has requires either rage, energy and/or combo points not to mention the right form to use it in. Not to say its impossible to do, but in terms of effectiveness, its certainly miles behind a shocking shaman, kicking rogue or even a silencing/screaming priest. If you are in bear form don't stand directly in front of the warlock, crowd him so if your stun is on cooldown you can hope to be able to get behind him where his fear will be broken. Don't know where this is coming from, but I've been feared by a warlock when he had his back to me by the time the spell went off and I'm pretty sure that was not a howl nor a coil. Not to mention my roots' cast time is the same as what you have on your fear(or is it actually even longer?) with minimal benefit when used aganist ranged enemies, not to mention that you might as well use your trinket to get off it. You can kite 'em pretty easily too by jumping into travel form until you are well out of range to heal, just keep running while spamming your instant HoT's if you need to.
Running off with travelform might sound like an easy trick, but it still doesn't provide immunity to the daze and interception your pet likes to pull off on me. And spamming my HoTs may sound like a lot after you have seen what resto druids do in raids, but for a feral druid the case is quite different plus it takes a lot more of my mana than you might imagine, when taken into account that I have to keep shifting between caster and travelform to pull of what you said there.

[Ergundergun]

i agree, its a game of rock paper scissors and all the stuff and most classes have something over other classes, or different aspects of the game. and when i say most classes i mean all of the except warlocks.

[Oatmealsmurf]

Not all warlocks have a Fel Guard... I think we're seeing here another case of the assumed 41/41/41 spec. Also a Warlock's trinket removes charm, fear and polymorph effects... not roots or stuns. So we can't trinket out of them.

You're right about fear though... doesn't matter if you're in front or behind. As long as you don't have LOS issues you can fear.

Can I assume you don't have your annoying little treants yet?

[Altaris]

OO theyre OP in PvE too. sooooooo in conclusion

Warlocks continue to be overpowered

Do you have anything of substance to add to this conversation?

I have a lock above 40 on a pvp realm. I get pwned constantly, especially by rogues. Pwned, camped, and taken to task. So that means rogues are over powered, right?

[Icefrost]

Can I assume you don't have your annoying little treants yet?

I said I was a feral druid, and this is not a said 41/41/41 assumption then? You don't seem much better than that yourself either.:wink:
As for the trinket, I was pretty sure it removed immobilizing effects as well, but maybe I was wrong. And we are talking about the Insignia of the Alliance/Horde, right?
And also, any pet except your imp can still daze me, which is the worse one of the two mentioned nuisances.

[Oatmealsmurf]

yeah that's the trinket... It doesn't remove imobilizing effects for locks... yeah and sorry Does that mean the trees are the balance 41 point talent? Told you I didn't know druids all that well. LOL..

Pre 2.0 I used to think of Druids as free HKs.. but now they are one of the biggest pains to deal with. What is the 41 point feral talent by the way?

[fzyx]

Do you have anything of substance to add to this conversation?

I have a lock above 40 on a pvp realm. I get pwned constantly, especially by rogues. Pwned, camped, and taken to task. So that means rogues are over powered, right?

We're just going in circles here now.

How would the people saying locks are not overpowered define overpowered?

[Icefrost]

yeah and sorry Does that mean the trees are the balance 41 point talent? Told you I didn't know druids all that well.
What is the 41 point feral talent by the way?

Balance 41pts = Force of Nature (said loveable little trees:wink: )
Feral 41pts = Mangle ( I don't have this and I daresay I'm proud of it)
Resto 41pts = Treeform (don't tell me you don't know what this is...)

As for the trinket, I never knew it had different effects for different classes...

[Oatmealsmurf]

Yeah I know and love tree form... nothing warms the heart of a lock more than a Druid who makes the mistake of being in tree form. LOL... I will die a horrible and painful death at the hands of other just for the opporotunity to banish him.

[Altaris]

We're just going in circles here now.

How would the people saying locks are not overpowered define overpowered?

Overpowered is a situation where only the most extreme circumstances cause you to fail, where "you" is anyone and everyone.

[Oatmealsmurf]

I would qualify a class as overpowered if the majority of other classes do not have a reasonable chance of beating them and where skill has very little to do with it. If you feel that way about locks then I feel for you because I know I have been taken down by every class in the game handily by people who were simply better than me.

while locks do have tools that make them highly adaptable... there is no IWin button or cookie cutter strategy that anyone can implement to insure victory.

I realize there are a lot of people who take issue with the mechanics of fear. But the fact is if people find themselves dying repeatedly to locks who just fear, dot, fear dot... those people need to evaluate their tactics. Fear is a crutch for a lot of poor pvping locks... There are ways to avoid it completely or at least make sure when it's cast that you are ready for it and therefore are able to minimize it's influence on the outcome.

[fzyx]

Overpowered is a situation where only the most extreme circumstances cause you to fail, where "you" is anyone and everyone.

I'm taking the cheap and cliche way out, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Altaris]

I would qualify a class as overpowered if the majority of other classes do not have a reasonable chance of beating them and where skill has very little to do with it. If you feel that way about locks then I feel for you because I know I have been taken down by every class in the game handily by people who were simply better than me.

while locks do have tools that make them highly adaptable... there is no IWin button or cookie cutter strategy that anyone can implement to insure victory.

I realize there are a lot of people who take issue with the mechanics of fear. But the fact is if people find themselves dying repeatedly to locks who just fear, dot, fear dot... those people need to evaluate their tactics. Fear is a crutch for a lot of poor pvping locks... There are ways to avoid it completely or at least make sure when it's cast that you are ready for it and therefore are able to minimize it's influence on the outcome.


Well said smurf, well said.

[nosoup4crr]

We're just going in circles here now.

How would the people saying locks are not overpowered define overpowered?

I'm thinking that this is why this thread has managed to accomplish so little. Everyone has a different definition. Some think that because a warlock will beat them 9 times out of 10 when encountered in open world PvP, they're overpowered. This isn't how I would define overpowered. "Overpowered" means that a class is so strong that it disrupts the balance of the game. People only scream overpowered when they think a change needs to be made. Therefore, overpowered necessarily entails that the advantage is so great that it merits a change in game mechanics.

Warlocks are great in 1 on 1 PvP...possibly the best overall (as far as their ability to consistently beat the most classes). However, warlocks are hardly overpowered in BG's. In some brackets, they're very strong. But I would say that in no bracket do they consistently top the HK, damage dealt, and killing blows chart. Even in their best bracket, they'll only match 2 or 3 other classes in that respect. Furthermore, they get blown away in arena. Because they have such great offensive abilities, they get targeted first...and their defensive abilities are lacking to an extent that they cannot mitigate much of that offense at all. And lastly, in PvE they're great...don't get me wrong. Warlocks are probably far and away the SECOND best solo PvEers. Hunters can grind more quickly and will die less often. Lastly, they have about as much utility as any other class in end game content.

In summation, you have what? You have a class that is arguably the best 1 on 1 PvPer in the game (still could be disputed). A class that is above average in BG's. A class that is weak in Arena. A class that is second best in solo PvE. And a class that is no better than any other in end game utility.

A strong class? Sure...I'd agree. Overpowered? So strong that they disrupt the balance of the game? I don't personally think so. There's more to consider than simply 1 on 1 PvP.

[zzzzzzz]

I'm thinking that this is why this thread has managed to accomplish so little. Everyone has a different definition. Some think that because a warlock will beat them 9 times out of 10 when encountered in open world PvP, they're overpowered. This isn't how I would define overpowered. "Overpowered" means that a class is so strong that it disrupts the balance of the game. People only scream overpowered when they think a change needs to be made. Therefore, overpowered necessarily entails that the advantage is so great that it merits a change in game mechanics.

Warlocks are great in 1 on 1 PvP...possibly the best overall (as far as their ability to consistently beat the most classes). However, warlocks are hardly overpowered in BG's. In some brackets, they're very strong. But I would say that in no bracket do they consistently top the HK, damage dealt, and killing blows chart. Even in their best bracket, they'll only match 2 or 3 other classes in that respect. Furthermore, they get blown away in arena. Because they have such great offensive abilities, they get targeted first...and their defensive abilities are lacking to an extent that they cannot mitigate much of that offense at all. And lastly, in PvE they're great...don't get me wrong. Warlocks are probably far and away the SECOND best solo PvEers. Hunters can grind more quickly and will die less often. Lastly, they have about as much utility as any other class in end game content.

In summation, you have what? You have a class that is arguably the best 1 on 1 PvPer in the game (still could be disputed). A class that is above average in BG's. A class that is weak in Arena. A class that is second best in solo PvE. And a class that is no better than any other in end game utility.

A strong class? Sure...I'd agree. Overpowered? So strong that they disrupt the balance of the game? I don't personally think so. There's more to consider than simply 1 on 1 PvP.

Couldn't agree more here.

Actually I think Shammies are more OP then Locks. I think they should nerf their totems and remove the earth elemental that they get. That elemental is just rediculas.

[fzyx]

I'm thinking that this is why this thread has managed to accomplish so little. Everyone has a different definition. Some think that because a warlock will beat them 9 times out of 10 when encountered in open world PvP, they're overpowered. This isn't how I would define overpowered. "Overpowered" means that a class is so strong that it disrupts the balance of the game. People only scream overpowered when they think a change needs to be made. Therefore, overpowered necessarily entails that the advantage is so great that it merits a change in game mechanics.

Warlocks are great in 1 on 1 PvP...possibly the best overall (as far as their ability to consistently beat the most classes). However, warlocks are hardly overpowered in BG's. In some brackets, they're very strong. But I would say that in no bracket do they consistently top the HK, damage dealt, and killing blows chart. Even in their best bracket, they'll only match 2 or 3 other classes in that respect. Furthermore, they get blown away in arena. Because they have such great offensive abilities, they get targeted first...and their defensive abilities are lacking to an extent that they cannot mitigate much of that offense at all. And lastly, in PvE they're great...don't get me wrong. Warlocks are probably far and away the SECOND best solo PvEers. Hunters can grind more quickly and will die less often. Lastly, they have about as much utility as any other class in end game content.

In summation, you have what? You have a class that is arguably the best 1 on 1 PvPer in the game (still could be disputed). A class that is above average in BG's. A class that is weak in Arena. A class that is second best in solo PvE. And a class that is no better than any other in end game utility.

A strong class? Sure...I'd agree. Overpowered? So strong that they disrupt the balance of the game? I don't personally think so. There's more to consider than simply 1 on 1 PvP.

I can agree with that. Looking at the whole picture I wouldn't say they are overpowered.

But I'll always feel I'm getting the short end of the stick on my mage when dueling a lock. Which is apparently by design, so thats ok.

[zzzzzzz]

I can agree with that. Looking at the whole picture I wouldn't say they are overpowered.

But I'll always feel I'm getting the short end of the stick on my mage when dueling a lock. Which is apparently by design, so thats ok.


Thats ok I feel the same way about rogues. Everyone has their opposite class that tears them up. rogues and hunters are a pain to a lock especially at level 70.

[Rex Normal]

Don't know how they pull that off, because every single interrupt ability a druid has requires either rage, energy and/or combo points not to mention the right form to use it in. Not to say its impossible to do, but in terms of effectiveness, its certainly miles behind a shocking shaman, kicking rogue or even a silencing/screaming priest. Don't know where this is coming from, but I've been feared by a warlock when he had his back to me by the time the spell went off and I'm pretty sure that was not a howl nor a coil. Not to mention my roots' cast time is the same as what you have on your fear(or is it actually even longer?) with minimal benefit when used aganist ranged enemies, not to mention that you might as well use your trinket to get off it.
Running off with travelform might sound like an easy trick, but it still doesn't provide immunity to the daze and interception your pet likes to pull off on me. And spamming my HoTs may sound like a lot after you have seen what resto druids do in raids, but for a feral druid the case is quite different plus it takes a lot more of my mana than you might imagine, when taken into account that I have to keep shifting between caster and travelform to pull of what you said there.

I beleive you have a talent that generates rage as well as a spec that allows you to transform with 10? points of rage into bear form

No warlock pet aside from the felguard should be able to catch up with you in travel form.

if you get far enough away in travel form you can go to caster mode and keep running, the lock or his pet will not be able to catch up with you while your HoTs tick no need to transform back and forth.

I was pretty sure that for fear to work the enemy has to be in front of the warlock, I might be wrong. It's possible that due to lag you appeared as tho you were behind him but the server registered you as in front and the fear went into effect, I'll have to double check tonight when I log on I guess.

Look if you can't figure these things out, I don't want to sit here and try to tell you how to play your class, I'm just telling you how I've been beaten by druids before. The other day I was battling at EotS and ended up going basicly 1 on 1 with a feral druid and those were the tactics he used on me. I fought him for a good solid several minutes where for some reason everyone on the horde were ignoring me and I could focus on the druid. It was a very close fight and the only reason it ended was because my rogue buddy finally came over and finished the druid off by ambushing him.

[Xizwhoa]

IMO there is def. no OP class. There are, however, people that are so good at playing there class that they make it seem like they are all that good.

X

[Altaris]

I'm thinking that this is why this thread has managed to accomplish so little. Everyone has a different definition. Some think that because a warlock will beat them 9 times out of 10 when encountered in open world PvP, they're overpowered. This isn't how I would define overpowered. "Overpowered" means that a class is so strong that it disrupts the balance of the game. People only scream overpowered when they think a change needs to be made. Therefore, overpowered necessarily entails that the advantage is so great that it merits a change in game mechanics.

Warlocks are great in 1 on 1 PvP...possibly the best overall (as far as their ability to consistently beat the most classes). However, warlocks are hardly overpowered in BG's. In some brackets, they're very strong. But I would say that in no bracket do they consistently top the HK, damage dealt, and killing blows chart. Even in their best bracket, they'll only match 2 or 3 other classes in that respect. Furthermore, they get blown away in arena. Because they have such great offensive abilities, they get targeted first...and their defensive abilities are lacking to an extent that they cannot mitigate much of that offense at all. And lastly, in PvE they're great...don't get me wrong. Warlocks are probably far and away the SECOND best solo PvEers. Hunters can grind more quickly and will die less often. Lastly, they have about as much utility as any other class in end game content.

In summation, you have what? You have a class that is arguably the best 1 on 1 PvPer in the game (still could be disputed). A class that is above average in BG's. A class that is weak in Arena. A class that is second best in solo PvE. And a class that is no better than any other in end game utility.

A strong class? Sure...I'd agree. Overpowered? So strong that they disrupt the balance of the game? I don't personally think so. There's more to consider than simply 1 on 1 PvP.

Excellent post. :thumbsup:

[Eonblue]

Maybe rogues and hunters are in the same boat in terms of people crying foul.

In any case, I consider it overpowered if the class has abilities that allow a so-so player to consistently defeat a so-so player 5 levels above him. That doesn't mean the class needs to be nerfed, and it doesn't mean that the other classes need to be buffed. We've already agreed that blizzard has a difficult job of balancing 1v1 pvp, arena, bg, and pve and that the cycle is such that in a year locks will probably be on the other side of the coin.


Sooooo by this theory then paladins are over powered...case in point (and this goes back to pvp exagerations..as who knows how that fight actually played out but I am going to lay this out as accuratly as possible for my example)
1. My BE Pally level 21 headed to durnholde for the quest where i free some orcs...as i approach the entrance I see a 25 night elf rogue finishing off a guard, i target him and notice he has something like 84% health (something like that) and he is coming right at me (kill or be killed apparently). So i run in ready to die. But, I managed to kill him thanks to some decent crits and a well timed hammer of justice... and I walk away with a very fair amount of health too..around 30% or so.
2. Some things to note here are, this was my first world pvp encounter on this toon (other than being ganked by high levels heading to tauren mill), I had never done any bgs with this toon, this was my first pally (actually i had another lvl 20 human on a pve server that i played one weekend and deleted wayyy back when)...so obviously i am not a very skilled pally yet...how could i be?
3. Apparently the night elf having his behind handed to him to him got rather pissy and decided he wanted revenge, so a few minutes later he shows up while i'm fighting another mob...i manage to hold my own a bit, but lucky for me, a 23 be rogue shows up to lend a hand and we manage to take the guy down....then he comes back again and kills us both...then back again and he kills me but i manage to get his health low enough so an adds comes and kills him....i use the later attempts by this guy to show that if he is prolly at least a decent player...more skilled than myself at the class we are playing.
4. So granted, he was only 4 levels higher, but does it seems based ont he previous posts, pallys are OP...i mean i'm a noob pally and i beat a rogue 4 levels higher.

[Aerath]

Posts like 'taking people down 5 levels above them' are blanket statements that really don't hold true and the more so the lower you place them.

Gear will have a big impact, but more importantly - not all classes are at the same strength throughout the game. It's one thing to ask from Blizzard that the classes are reasonably balanced when at the end levels, it's another to expect them to do so at every single point in the game.

[timebomb]

This thread makes me smile. :sunny:

the bat is coming in less than 60 days. remember who said it here first.

if anyone remembers the last time i whined about something it was how easy they made getting honor for gear and the next day they nerfed it. I beleave the same people called me whiner then too. but for some strang reason blizard thought the same as i.

good luck locks when you have to play at the same level as the rest of us. maybe youll have to use some skills rather then saying all locks are just better players.

sorry if i sound made guys but i hate people who can just lie so much until the point they make themself beleave what they say is true. i dont know who they are trying to convince but i think its themself.

[Serrat]

Couldn't agree more here.

Actually I think Shammies are more OP then Locks. I think they should nerf their totems and remove the earth elemental that they get. That elemental is just rediculas.

is that shaman comment a joke?

just want to check before i make a comment:wink:

[Ergundergun]

IMO there is def. no OP class. There are, however, people that are so good at playing there class that they make it seem like they are all that good.

X

and then there are warlocks.

[Telmar]

I would argue that the only class is overpowered is currently warlocks. They dominate heavily at level 70 in both pvp, and pve, alongside bringing a surprisingly large amount of utility. They particularly shine on movement fights as a large proportion of their damage is from instant dots. They suffer none of the drawbacks that melee do, and currently there are no heavy fire/shadow resistant/immune bosses to cause them significant problems with resists.

Currently, a warlock can dominate me in pvp (with his pve spec), along with farming 3 or 4 times more effectively than me, without taking damage, AND can keep up on the damage meters (less so on a stationary fight like patchwerk/gruul).

I would argue that at the moment, warlocks have come into their own, mainly due to the AMAZING tailoring gear thats available to them, along with the fact that alot of the fights are currently very mobile, allowing the steady dps of their dots to out perform melee/stationary ranged (mages/shadow priests). The synergy that they gain with a shadow priest (hi2u misery, VT and VE) in their group is also ridiculous. It scales far far to well atm, and with both casters kitted out in tailoring gear, it is a HUGE damage boost.

Im not saying this is the fault of warlocks in some way, but i feel that the current high scaling of the shadow damage bonuses needs to be given a slight tweak downwards in PVE, to bring warlock/spriest combos in line with everyone else.

[Ergundergun]

I would argue that the only class is overpowered is currently warlocks. They dominate heavily at level 70 in both pvp, and pve, alongside bringing a surprisingly large amount of utility. They particularly shine on movement fights as a large proportion of their damage is from instant dots. They suffer none of the drawbacks that melee do, and currently there are no heavy fire/shadow resistant/immune bosses to cause them significant problems with resists.

Currently, a warlock can dominate me in pvp (with his pve spec), along with farming 3 or 4 times more effectively than me, without taking damage, AND can keep up on the damage meters (less so on a stationary fight like patchwerk/gruul).

I would argue that at the moment, warlocks have come into their own, mainly due to the AMAZING tailoring gear thats available to them, along with the fact that alot of the fights are currently very mobile, allowing the steady dps of their dots to out perform melee/stationary ranged (mages/shadow priests). The synergy that they gain with a shadow priest (hi2u misery, VT and VE) in their group is also ridiculous. It scales far far to well atm, and with both casters kitted out in tailoring gear, it is a HUGE damage boost.

Im not saying this is the fault of warlocks in some way, but i feel that the current high scaling of the shadow damage bonuses needs to be given a slight tweak downwards in PVE, to bring warlock/spriest combos in line with everyone else.

thats exactly what ive been tryin to say, no one ever listens to me .......


:rolleyes:

[Oatmealsmurf]

This thread makes me smile. :sunny:

the bat is coming in less than 60 days. remember who said it here first.

if anyone remembers the last time i whined about something it was how easy they made getting honor for gear and the next day they nerfed it. I beleave the same people called me whiner then too. but for some strang reason blizard thought the same as i.

good luck locks when you have to play at the same level as the rest of us. maybe youll have to use some skills rather then saying all locks are just better players.

sorry if i sound made guys but i hate people who can just lie so much until the point they make themself beleave what they say is true. i dont know who they are trying to convince but i think its themself.


One could only wish that was the last time you whined about something. LOL

[timebomb]

thats exactly what ive been tryin to say, no one ever listens to me .......


:rolleyes:

LOL i dont know why there not listening to you man. you said it like 5 times. :thumbsup: i hear you man.

and to oatmeal,
go read some other threads from other sites about locks. I may bring up points about the game that are unfair and they may sound like whines to you. But i dont lie to myself and others. face it locks are at the top of the food chain and are going to be targeted to get fixed. then it will be another class next.

maybe we are playing 2 differant games.

[Oatmealsmurf]

Take comfort in your minority of vocal pvp whiners but Locks already had their DoTs nerfed back to lower than pre 2.0 standards the Fel Guard has been Nerfed and so has Demonic Tactics. It's a a shame that Blizzard caters to pre pubescents on the official forums who don't like it because they got "wtfpwned" by a certain class that they can't be bothered to figure out.

That's why warriors and rogues are the mess they are now... People whined and whined until they took away their ability to compete.

I could care less if they did something to nerf the synergy between Locks and Shadowpriests as one poster suggested above... But your suggestion to completely alter the mechanics of fear is what sets you apart from the legit critiques. You basically want to break the class in solo pve and pvp. So yes I call that whining. I could call it even if they gave us some kind of frost nova like ability but that would just generate more whining from people like you that locks were getting even more of a buff.

[esdawg]

I don't think any class is overpowered. That being said there are definitely class imbalances.

Warriors - Extremely gear and spec dependent for PvP viability
Priests, Pallies, Shammies - Very spec dependent

The other problem I see is this "Rock, Paper, Scissors" syndrome. Warriors get man handled by Frost Mages which get ganked by Rogues which die to Druids (Don't take that too literally it's merely a rough example) . . . and so on. While this emphasizes a degree of teamwork to cover for weaknesses the problem is exagerated in 1 vs 1 settings. Certain match ups are extremely difficult for one class or another.

[zzzzzzz]

is that shaman comment a joke?

just want to check before i make a comment:wink:

Yes its a joke as I really don't see any class OP.

But I am sure if we wanted to we could have a 10 page thread on any class of how they have an ability that makes them OP to another class. People hate to get feared which is the Locks bread and butter so people bring up the OP statement again. If locks don't have fear we have NO defense. We can't go toe to toe with any melee class. Timebomb asked us to make fear breakable when any damage is done, and that would make it more even. So if this is the case then I think that Mages frost root spell (forget what it's called) should be nerfed too. Mages shouldn't be able to blink out of stuns. Shammies totems should dissapear when a shammy gets hit. You can't take one classes defense away without evening it out with other classes.

What other defense do locks have? We dont have root or stun capability. We don't have the ability to change how fast we move. Maybe they should take locks fear away and put them in plate so we can stand up to a melee attack.

In the end blizzard heard about all the complaints regarding fear and our dots and put in mechanic's to defense against these. Trinkets,abilities etc.. just learn how to use them. As a lock I have to learn how to get around a mages Silence ability or a warriors hamstring a rogues stun (which with CoS I still haven't gotten around). I think people claim locks are OP because they are anoying not OP.

[nosoup4crr]

I would argue that the only class is overpowered is currently warlocks. They dominate heavily at level 70 in both pvp, and pve, alongside bringing a surprisingly large amount of utility. They particularly shine on movement fights as a large proportion of their damage is from instant dots. They suffer none of the drawbacks that melee do, and currently there are no heavy fire/shadow resistant/immune bosses to cause them significant problems with resists.

Currently, a warlock can dominate me in pvp (with his pve spec), along with farming 3 or 4 times more effectively than me, without taking damage, AND can keep up on the damage meters (less so on a stationary fight like patchwerk/gruul).

I would argue that at the moment, warlocks have come into their own, mainly due to the AMAZING tailoring gear thats available to them, along with the fact that alot of the fights are currently very mobile, allowing the steady dps of their dots to out perform melee/stationary ranged (mages/shadow priests). The synergy that they gain with a shadow priest (hi2u misery, VT and VE) in their group is also ridiculous. It scales far far to well atm, and with both casters kitted out in tailoring gear, it is a HUGE damage boost.

Im not saying this is the fault of warlocks in some way, but i feel that the current high scaling of the shadow damage bonuses needs to be given a slight tweak downwards in PVE, to bring warlock/spriest combos in line with everyone else.

Dominate in both PvE and PvP? They're strong in solo PvE, yes...But they're still less efficient than hunters. Even the best locks only kill every 14-15 seconds including a run to the next mob. It's inexcusable for any character, who's grinding, other than a resto or prot build to kill and move in more than 30 seconds. Therefore, at best, a warlock should be grinding twice as efficiently as you. If it's 3-4 times more efficiently than you, that's a problem with your play style...not your class. So, yes...warlocks are strong in solo PvE...they don't dominate because hunters still outgrind them.

In endgame content, locks will only now and then out DPS a mage. Mages bring the most consistent CC in the game, as well...along with arcane intellect and temporary weakness to fire damage. Locks bring curse of elements, a soul stone, and either blood pact or CC that is inconsistent (charm). I'd argue that the mage has more utility. Furthermore, though a shaman (elemental or resto) won't lead in DPS, they'll provide 3x more utility than nearly any other class. At best, a warlock is above average in overall endgame PvE benefit. They hardly dominate.

PvP? Like I've said before...sure a good lock might consistently beat more classes 1 on 1 than the other classes. Yes...they're great duelers. However, your comment about being able to run around and DoT...and thus making them great group PvPers is inexact. Locks are great in 2v2 arena. However, if you watch any relatively skilled arena group of 3v3 or 5v5, locks go down quickly. Their damage mitigation is arguably the worst of any class. They'll die in larger group PvP situations before they get a chance to show off their offensive power. I can't see how you can infer them as being either dominating or overpowered from that.

[Altaris]

There are a great many excellent posts in this thread about how no class is over powered. There are as many posts in this thread about how the warlock in particular is not overpowered.

The fact is obvious to those who step back at look at all the posts.

Unfortunately, too many "whiners" are here and have changed this from a "no class is overpowered" thread into a "nerf locks" thred.

[Ergundergun]

ROFL, all becasue warlocks ore overpowered

[zzzzzzz]

ROFL, all becasue warlocks ore overpowered

Rofl look at the type of books this guy reads and you will understand why he doesn't give any better insight into why he thinks locks of OP. Sounds like all you is make post to irritate people which IMO is better off being ignored.

http://forums.worldofwar.net/showthread.php?t=392200&highlight=ergundergun

[Ergundergun]

..........wow

[timebomb]

More personal attacks. From people who cant do much more than fear dot. Oops forgot the opener, skillcoil. :thumbsup:

Some people voice opinion on the game. Others like to dig up dirt to attempt discredit. If only I had the time to do every ones background check and see what I can dig up. But I have a job and don’t live in my parent’s basement. So I check in now and then when I have time.

zzz and oatmeat are just to witty for me.

[Ergundergun]

i love you timebomb

p.s. i love all of you, but warlocks.....nvm im done :D

[Eonblue]

ZOMG, here is official proof warlocks are NOT overpowered!

Part 1
http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=1847895

Part 2
http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=1847905

Part 3
http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=1847907



All in good fun folks...really not trying to ruffle any feathers..after all it is just a game...but I had to definitively put an end to the debate :P

[Oatmealsmurf]

LOL... I'm all for good fun... I just get a little tired of seeing the same guy constantly whine about something that isn't fair to him. At different times I've seen him complain about mages, rogues, pallys, locks, hunters and warriors... not to mention his own reference to his infamous honor whine about "zomg" all these people are getting high warlord weapons when it took me months to get my tier 2. I can actually sympathize on that one a little bit but after a while it's like... when are you going to stop blaming all your failures on someone else supposedly being given more than you... and you want it taken away.

Everything is always about what someone else has that isn't fair with this guy. Give it a rest already. One thing is for sure though... he wasn't complaining when shamans were getting WF procs off yellow damage. Quite ironic I'd say.

[Xizwhoa]

That's it, when you die it's back to lvl one for you


X

[zzzzzzz]

More personal attacks. From people who cant do much more than fear dot. Oops forgot the opener, skillcoil. :thumbsup:

Some people voice opinion on the game. Others like to dig up dirt to attempt discredit. If only I had the time to do every ones background check and see what I can dig up. But I have a job and don’t live in my parent’s basement. So I check in now and then when I have time.

zzz and oatmeat are just to witty for me.

Voicing opinion is usually backed up by why you feel a certain way. But just to post over and over a simple statement of "Locks are over OP" with nothing to back it up is meaningless and meant to stir the pot. As far as digging up dirt? I ran across his post today in that forum and thought it was pretty much par for the coarse. I am sure if it was any other topic you would probably think he was a troll in the forum's also but since he is basically one of only a few that agree with you on this topic you are backing him up.

You can try again with the parents basement thing. Married with children here and I believe you have more post on this forum then I do so obviously you have more time then me.

[Eonblue]

Jeezum Crow...i need to find something else to do all day at work :P

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[NOYB]

There are no OP classes. Just OP players.

You'll see this in every game genre. Some people are just better than others.

[Xizwhoa]

Well NOYB gets it. 1-1 as a hunter I don't have too much trouble with locks, it's usually a close fight every time, but sometimes you get that person that just blows you away, no matter what the class is. That is when you need to stop crying OP and start learning from it.


X

[fzyx]

Posts like 'taking people down 5 levels above them' are blanket statements that really don't hold true and the more so the lower you place them.

Gear will have a big impact, but more importantly - not all classes are at the same strength throughout the game. It's one thing to ask from Blizzard that the classes are reasonably balanced when at the end levels, it's another to expect them to do so at every single point in the game.

Agreed. There is no way that they can balance all classes in all situations. At certain levels certain classes are overpowered specifically in relation to other classes. I do admit that my definition of overpowered at the beginning of this thread was incorrect. I've seen the light in that I now understand there is more to calling one class overpowered than that they can beat my class without a sweat.

"There are no OP classes. Just OP players."

I still think this statement is a cop-out though, and incorrect. It all depends on the situation.

[Tanitha]

I still think this statement is a cop-out though, and incorrect. It all depends on the situation.

Exactly, it's situational. And some classes deal with some situations better than others. To build on Aerath's quote - my best fight ever was against a Warlock 7 levels above me. He opened with Fear while I was banishing his pet - he won which saw me running around amongst Desolace's Thunder lizards for ~960 points of damage before I was able to respond. Yet, I still won that fight. Was it luck? Skill? A badly played enemy Warlock? All of the above?

Nah, it's easier to take the cop out and say "Warlocks are overpowered".

(P.S. I have the combat log to prove the above, once blogs are back)

[NOYB]

"It all depends on the situation"

Not really. Luck may have something to do with it, but pitting a good player vs a bad one regardless of class will show the bad player losing more often.

I think what's difficult for people to admit is that they're not as good as they think they are. "ZOMGZ nerf Warlocks"! Obviously, it was because the other guy was playing a warlock, and not because you chose the wrong strategy. Blaming a loss on the choice of class is the cop-out.

[Tanitha]

I'm not sure what you're saying. That was two Warlocks facing off against one-another. Both played reasonably well, but the higher level Warlock made a few mistakes, the lower level one had a lucky crit-heal off a Health Stone and ... there is no blame on the choice of class, etc.

[NOYB]

Wasn't directing it at you, specifically. Just the general sentiment. BTW, making a few mistakes in one fight is not playing reasonably well.

[Tanitha]

Well, in analysing the fight later on (Virtue of having a Combat Log) he had me at around 30 or 40 hp. At that stage he pulled his Voidwalker off me as my Succubus was starting to annoy him. That was the one mistake he made that I could find, because it cost him the win. It gave me enough time to get a crit heal off the healthstone, a heal off a potion and to dot him up which, coupled with Drain Life, resulting in him dying.

What is wrong with the sentiment though? I found that an example of:

(a) player skill potentially trumping class selection
(b) luck playing a role (The crit heal)
(c) a simple mistake turning the tide
(d) a fairly unique situation
(e) a mocking proof that Warlocks aren't overpowered? :grin:

Anyway. I'm still failing to see what your general point is. Would you mind spelling it out?

[NOYB]

My point was simple. There aren't OP classes.

I actually don't understand why you even brought up the whole "I beat a warlock 7 levels higher than me" example. Wouldn't that demonstrate that I'm right in that good players will beat bad ones? Do you believe your fight would have been nearly as close if the two of you were of equivalent level?

You did indeed get a lucky break, but this guy blew it big time. Did he even sac his VW?

[Tanitha]

My point was simple. There aren't OP classes.

Ah. Then I believe we are in complete agreement. I also think there are no OP classes, although some are better in certain situations than other classes.

The reason I brought the example up was because of Aerath's earlier statement regarding the level differentials. Here were two supposedly OP classes facing off against one-another (Two Warlocks) and it came down to a combination of luck, mistakes and skill.

IF Warlocks were overpowered, I'd have expected the much higher level player to have wiped the floor with me. Which didn't happen.

[Lonestarrrrr]

i didn't read all 19 pages.

i think a lot of frustration comes from the "hard counters" that are part of pvp in this game. for example, a frost mage can kite a warrior around all day with rank 1 frostbolt, there's really not much a warrior can do in that situation. or as a fire mage, when a hunter sends the red pet in on me. im reliant on roots and snares and the red pet is a hard counter to that, it makes it real hard to take a hunter 1 on 1 in that situation unless the planets align correctly...lol... counterspell a paladin's healing tree and its an easy win.

it's frustrating getting chain feared and going from full health to zero health without even being able to get an instant cast spell of because you have absolutely no control over your character.

on the other hand im sure certain classes don't appreciate my sheep/pyro/dragonsbreath/blastwave/fireblast combo too much either ;)

the whole thing with these hard counters is that in many 1 vs 1 matchups, you just have to run away because if your opponent knows how to play his class, you know you don't have a chance - you're paper to his scissors.

so at first this is all real frustrating. after getting wtfpwnt by certain classes repeatedly no matter what you do, you get frustrated and call the class OP.

i think it's important to pick your battles wisely, and know what situations you can excel in, and which situations to avoid. as a fire mage, i will not willingly fight a warlock 1 on 1, instead i'll pull back and let a rogue sneak in there, then i'll run in and start nuking.

staring down a beast master hunter with a red pet at a range of 41+ yards, it would be foolish to charge in. but if i'm mounted, and i manage to sneak up on a hunter and dismount/frostnova/fireball/dragonsbreath/blastwave/fireblast, i can win without taking damage.

stuff like that. i think half of being good at battlegrounds is just knowing how to choose your battles. i'm willing to bet the source of many peoples anger is when they try to go 1 on 1 with their anti-class.

the whole rock paper scissors thing doesn't appeal to some people. some people believe that if you play your character flawlessly, you should win regardless of what your opponents class is. i can agree with that in a way, but that's just not how pvp works in this game. sometimes you can do everything in your power, while your opponent repeatedly makes mistakes, and still lose. it's embarrasing losing to a hunter who uses the S key to walk backwards at half speed instead of strafing, and clicks his spells, but it happens.

overall though, win or lose i have a lot of fun. that's all that matters

edit: (finished reading the entire thread btw)

Maybe, in reality the tools don't seem to work reliably but I have alot to learn. Anyway, I shouldn't have gotten involved in this again, we already agreed on the important parts.

frost nova the charge, blink out of intercept, slap on a rank 1 frostbolt then go to work (usually works for me anyways). also im pretty sure that if you counterspell a warrior before they charge, it will put them in combat and make it so they can't charge (not positive though)

[fzyx]

Ah. Then I believe we are in complete agreement. I also think there are no OP classes, although some are better in certain situations than other classes.

The reason I brought the example up was because of Aerath's earlier statement regarding the level differentials. Here were two supposedly OP classes facing off against one-another (Two Warlocks) and it came down to a combination of luck, mistakes and skill.

IF Warlocks were overpowered, I'd have expected the much higher level player to have wiped the floor with me. Which didn't happen.

Why? If both warlocks are overpowered doesn't it cancel it out? Yes, either you were skilled in this situation or your opponent made a mistake, but it doesn't apply to the question of whether there are overpowered classes.

The fact is (at least in my mind) an average player on a level 33 warlock has an above average chance of beating a level 37 mage of the same ability. While a level 33 mage has close to zero chance of beating a level 37 warlock unless they are afk. Even then if the pet is out it would probably kill the mage :) Maybe a lucky string of crits will give the mage a fighting chance, if they can get a single spell off between fear and the pet, and if the warlock doesn't get a lucky heal. Mages have no ability (short of higher-level trinkets) to break out of fear, and no ability to heal.

Oatmealsmurf (or whatever) already agreed to this by stating that a warlock (scissors) was designed to beat a mage (paper).

So in the case when a warlock jumps a mage in world pvp (this is the "situation" I was alluding to), the warlock is overpowered because for the most part the mage has no chance short of extreme luck. The best advice mages will give vs. a warlock is to run/blink/pray. Or just kneel and take it.

EDIT : Just read lonestarrrr's post so some of this is redundant. And I just want to clarify that I am no longer saying Warlock's are overpowered throughout the game, but that in certain situations certain classes are overpowered in respect to other classes. When those pvp situations happen, the warlock should not pat themselves on the back for a job well-done, they should send a letter to blizzard thanking them. And the mage should go out and learn to play better, or learn to give a wider berth to their anti-class. In this one situation, it is a cop-out to say "there are no OP classes, just OP players", because it is simply not true.

[Justinledwards]

Druids. I just had a scan down the feral tree for the first time, it's like the hunter's BM, MM and survival all rolled into one. With a 5/45/11 build I think you'd be amazing in PvE and pretty darn good in PvP... I mean, look at the Druid forum - heh which boss did u solo today?

[Tanitha]

Wait, I retract my earlier statements. Warlocks are overpowered. This proves it (http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/28). But I don't know about the tasting like chocolate bit.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

As someone who plays every class, I'm going to have to chime in and say none of the characters I have are overpowered compared to each other. They all have strengths and weaknesses, but it balances out. Some classes are having issues, but Blizzard historically does address those issues and resolves them. for instance, ask anyone who remembers what the Hunter class was like from beta to patch 1.4. Or what the Feral Combat talent tree for druids USED to be like. All I can say is time will fix all things, and patience is a virtue.

[timebomb]

This thread makes me smile. :sunny:

the bat is coming in less than 60 days. remember who said it here first.

if anyone remembers the last time i whined about something it was how easy they made getting honor for gear and the next day they nerfed it. I beleave the same people called me whiner then too. but for some strang reason blizard thought the same as i.

good luck locks when you have to play at the same level as the rest of us. maybe youll have to use some skills rather then saying all locks are just better players.

sorry if i sound made guys but i hate people who can just lie so much until the point they make themself beleave what they say is true. i dont know who they are trying to convince but i think its themself.


- Chance to break crowd control from damage: The increased chance for
a spell to break from taking a critical strike has been removed.
Instead, all targets over level 60 have a slightly larger chance to
break out of crowd-controlling effects when they take damage.

Man they are all most there. They are so close. I'm guessing baby steps.

[fzyx]

- Chance to break crowd control from damage: The increased chance for
a spell to break from taking a critical strike has been removed.
Instead, all targets over level 60 have a slightly larger chance to
break out of crowd-controlling effects when they take damage.

Man they are all most there. They are so close. I'm guessing baby steps.

Where did you get that from?

[Foonyak]

Wait, I retract my earlier statements. Warlocks are overpowered. This proves it (http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/28). But I don't know about the tasting like chocolate bit.

No one can tell yet whether monks' souls taste like chocolate. Blizzard hasn't implemented them yet. :grin:

[timebomb]

Where did you get that from?

warlock 2.1 patch notes.