[OOC]Where did elves, orcs, trolls genre come from?

[flammable]

Where did all of these come from? Are these all Tolkien or have they been around much longer? Did they all come from the same books or seperate?

Thank you

[Valas Azuviir]

Where did all of these come from? Are these all Tolkien or have they been around much longer? Did they all come from the same books or seperate?

Thank you

Old mythology, especially Scandanavian/Germanic.
You'll also see bits and pieces in older forms of literature vastly predating Tolkien's work. From Beowulf to work by Christina Rossetti and/or Lord Dunsany.

Gives a decent overview (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_fantasy) of the history of the genre. Also has some links, which deal with the various beings which can be found in the various fantasy settings.

[flammable]

Thank you!

[Blended Pain]

Orcs were purely Tolkien's creation. Ogres were also made by some author. The rest have mythological backgrounds

[Valas Azuviir]

Orcs were purely Tolkien's creation. Ogres were also made by some author. The rest have mythological backgrounds

Not quite.
Orcs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc). And considering Tolkien himself shifted a bit back and forth by calling Orcs, Goblins as well.. Not quite sure, one could argue that they are purely his creation. Also see Ogre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogre).

[Blended Pain]

Can you elaborate what you mean by not quite. Wikipedia suggests Tolkien made orcs, it is widely known. He may have his inspirations but the modern form was made by him.

[Etrin]

Ok we all know that elves come from hollow trees, oh wait they live in hollow trees, that much I DO KNOW ...saw it on tv
and they eat nothing but cookies or something like that.

What race was created from tortured elves? Goblins?

[Stigg]

Can you elaborate what you mean by not quite. Wikipedia suggests Tolkien made orcs, it is widely known. He may have his inspirations but the modern form was made by him.

Right. The Modern Form. Which means nothing along the lines of he created them. He popularized them and molded them...but he did not create them.

As with almost all naration...it can all be traced back to old times. But somebody since then has taken it, molded it, and presented it again.

[Blended Pain]

So you're saying something known as "Orc" existed before and they were big humanoid warrior monsters?
If that's true then yeah, Tolkien did not create them but I don't think it's likely. Anyways the concept of 'Orc' in the present day was made by Tolkien that's for sure.

PS Also Etrin, I don't know where you got the idea about cookie eating elves.
But according to Tolkien's works Orcs were made by torturing elves.(if that's what you meant to ask)
Also in his works it is mentioned that goblins were created to imitate Dwarves.

[Stigg]

Hes talking about Clay Aiken. Err... i mean Keebler Elves. (the cookie guys).

[Etrin]

thank you pain for explaining that to me.

yep keebler made the first tree, or something like that.

[Valas Azuviir]

So you're saying something known as "Orc" existed before and they were big humanoid warrior monsters?
If that's true then yeah, Tolkien did not create them but I don't think it's likely. Anyways the concept of 'Orc' in the present day was made by Tolkien that's for sure.



Keep in mind that Tolkien was one of the foremost scholars on Beowulf.
Now, I don't quite have my: A Choice of Anglo-Saxon Verse by Richard Hamer handy, but what I recall from my lessons on Old English, Grendel is referred to in at least one passage as an Orc. That bit is also referenced in the wiki page dealing with Orcs, that I gave earlier.

Nowhere in Tolkien's work are Orcs portrayed as green-skinned or pig-snouted. The latter imagery is often found in D&D related material (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29#Orcs_in_Spelljammer) and apparently was first introduced by the Warhammer wargames..

In addition, he also rewrote the origin of the Orcs on several occasions, from creations of Melkor, to tortured elves to something else. In the Hobbit, he referred to them as goblins as well.

In addition, Tolkien's Orcs are not exactly sterling examples of intelligence to say the least. Serious reflection on what constitutes life and the cycle thereof, would not be on their to do list to say the least. Whereas, this is something, which you do see with Warcraft Orcs.

I'd personally consider the Scro from the Spelljammer setting as being the originators of the idea that, Orcs can be as intelligent and cunning as any regular human or demi-human.

[Ariakas]

Tolkien's Orcs were black. Their skill level with a weapon was low, and the original ones, (not Uruk) weren't especially well built or strong. Much unlike a standard WoW orc.

[Blended Pain]

Okay so lets put it this way, he may have not invented them completely, he gave them a very recoganisable creature in later fantasies and brought them to the fantyasy world map.Though it's quite obvious that Warcraft orcs are pretty different, when I meant modern orc I kinda meant DnD and those sorta stuff.