Black Morass with a mage doing adds

[mesonm]

Alright...I did this the other day, and failed. The adds just came too fast, and I never was able to get out combat (after the fourth portal) to be able to drink.

So, I ran out of mana.

People I have spoken with tell me that if they have a mage in the party, the mage ALWAYS does the adds, alone.

I can see doing the whelps, but the singles come too fast.

The only time I've done this on a different toon, I did it on my druid...That time, the rogue in the party did adds, and the mage dps'd the bosses.

Thoughts?

1. How to do the adds successfully as a mage(fire spec), without running into mana issues...

2. Why not the rogue on the adds?

3. Why not have mage do whelps, and the rogue do singles, with everyone not otherwise occupied do the boss?

(This is not in the mage forum because I ask a broader question that is not mage-specific.)

[rgirty]

I've seen a lot of mages do the adds, as well as locks.

I'm usually healing and busy with that but from what i've noticed is the adds go directly for the shield. The shield is very strong, I would advise just picking targets, regaining mana as needed and picking a new target.

Even if the shield is at 25-30% when the final boss comes that should still leave plenty of time to gain mana/health and engage him. As long as the shield does not fail you can complete. You don't get any extra rewards for the shield being at 100%

[mesonm]

I've seen a lot of mages do the adds, as well as locks.

I'm usually healing and busy with that but from what i've noticed is the adds go directly for the shield. The shield is very strong, I would advise just picking targets, regaining mana as needed and picking a new target.

Even if the shield is at 25-30% when the final boss comes that should still leave plenty of time to gain mana/health and engage him. As long as the shield does not fail you can complete. You don't get any extra rewards for the shield being at 100%

Two key points I had not thought of....

I'll pick them off of the shield, rather than trying to take them on as they come out.

Thanks!

[larissa]

Alright...I did this the other day, and failed. The adds just came too fast, and I never was able to get out combat (after the fourth portal) to be able to drink.

So, I ran out of mana.

People I have spoken with tell me that if they have a mage in the party, the mage ALWAYS does the adds, alone.

I can see doing the whelps, but the singles come too fast.

The only time I've done this on a different toon, I did it on my druid...That time, the rogue in the party did adds, and the mage dps'd the bosses.

Thoughts?

1. How to do the adds successfully as a mage(fire spec), without running into mana issues...

2. Why not the rogue on the adds?

3. Why not have mage do whelps, and the rogue do singles, with everyone not otherwise occupied do the boss?

(This is not in the mage forum because I ask a broader question that is not mage-specific.)

I have no hints for question 1, I know far too little about mages. One thing is if you are doing adds, don't attack the boss. If you get into combat with the boss/miniboss, then you're stuck in combat for the duration. If you just attack adds, you're only in combat until the adds you attack drop.

2) Most rogues have higher dps on single targets from behind. They may get a good ambush off, but then it's mostly frontal damage, which lowers their dps significantly. As well, they can really only concentrate on one target at a time unless they want to lose their combo points, which lowers their damage even more.

3) A viable option, and the method we used for a couple of runs (unsuccessful in the end). I've only been to Black Morass recently, but have seen that this is a dps fight. Our successful groups have been myself, a protection warrior, a rogue, and then either a rogue/mage and druid, or a mage/shaman. The druid and shaman handled the adds, with the rogue/mage assisting where needed.

The druid one was by far the easiest run I've had. None of the mana issues that pop up with the mage/shaman, and a lot less healing needed by me than a rogue/shaman.

I've also heard tell of a group that has a warlock at Medivh, DoTing and chain fearing the adds as they come in.

Personally, I'd rather have the rogue and mage dps on the bosses rather than adds. But I guess it really depends on who your 5th is to figure out who should be focussing on the adds, and who on the bosses.

~~~Larissa

[DraedynLei]

i've only done BM once and I am a mage so i can only tell how we did it. i was on adds, waaaay back always between the portals and medivh. the rogue hung in between everything, once an add appeared, he tagged em, stopping their progress forward, then i lit em up. towards the end, he had to switch the boss and i was on adds alone. if you're far enough back, once an add dies, you go out of combat even if they're still on a boss. drink drink drink. every chance you get. honestly we barely survived. at the end it was just me and rogue left. the last boss had 4%. tank died. i was nuking away. when he got to me, i was oom. the rogue hit em from behind and it was over. oh i also had 400 hp left heh.

[tagkc]

I usually take the adds except for the last one of each portal. Our melee will usually take that one down on the way to the next portal while the healer and I regain our mana.

One exception to this is the 2nd boss. We just let the adds go to the shield while we take this boss down, w/ me making sure to steal the buff he keeps putting up. Then we just drop a beacon on the adds.

The first time I did this it was very fast and confusing. Something I learned is I don't have to be w/ the melee group as they head to the portal. I'll station myself about a third of the way between the portal and shield, being closer to the shield. Between portals, you will have time to drink up while the melee are heading to the portal. You should have plenty of time to get most, if not all the water done before you need to head off to intercept the first add of each wave.

[liquidicem]

I play a mage and I am always on the adds. The key is not stay right near the portals. You need to stay near the middle of the zone and attack from max range. Most of the adds are dead before they get to me. The only time I ever run into trouble is when the group as a whole is lacking on dps. With a decent group you should only get 3-4 spawns per portal. Any more than that and you'll start to run into mana issues.

One major help is a warlock if you have it. Have them throw curse of weakness on the melee spawns and curse of tongues on the casters as the spawn. This makes it almost too easy.

Just make sure to drink after every portal and ask the rest of the dps to help finish off the last spawn on thier way to the next portal.

[Magikhat]

I did the adds as a hunter. I pwn I know

[JaTal]

Alright...I did this the other day, and failed. The adds just came too fast, and I never was able to get out combat (after the fourth portal) to be able to drink.

So, I ran out of mana.


I don't think that is entrly your problem. It sounds like the group wasn't finishing up the portals fast enough.

People I have spoken with tell me that if they have a mage in the party, the mage ALWAYS does the adds, alone.


Not True. In the runs I did we had a Hunter get the Adds with me (Fire Mage) getting the Welps. Then after the Boss died, we all finish up the ads, run to the next protal and drink.


1. How to do the adds successfully as a mage(fire spec), without running into mana issues...

I will sometime still be drinking when the boss comes out. If you can't get out of combat, try not moving to the next Protal immediatly, drink where you are.

2. Why not the rogue on the adds?

I prefer Hunters. The Range Attack works better. Rogue would end up running around to much, expecially of another one comes out before the first is down.

3. Why not have mage do whelps, and the rogue do singles, with everyone not otherwise occupied do the boss?

We do that (Except with Hunter not Rogue)

[rgirty]

Two key points I had not thought of....

I'll pick them off of the shield, rather than trying to take them on as they come out.

Thanks!

You are welcome, I actually completed this 4 times over the weekend. I had completed it at least 5-6 times previously. As a priest i'm called upon to heal it for people getting attuned.

The above seems the easiest way to do it, 3 minute mages are very good at it as well as locks because of the fear/pet they can use. I typically try to throw on the occasional heal/shield as well as a heal or so for the pet.

Make sure to tell the person on adds to also fee free to drop a chrono beacon.

Typicall when the 2nd boss arrives we instruct the person on adds to drop a beacon, do not aggro any adds and come help with the boss.

The beacon will take care of a lot of the adds, then we just cleanup the leftovers after the boss is down. The adds normally take the shield down 15-25% Giving it anywhere from 60-75% total left when we start doing the third wave.

Something else that works, as of now.. and no idea if this will be changed post patch however you can totally IGNORE the 17th portal.

Simply drink, get mana back and get ready to go. It is on a timer, in a few minutes the 18th portal will open and the boss will come. You may have to drop a beacon to clear adds before the boss but that isn't very common.

If you are having difficulty, low on mana or a lot of adds when the 16th is over just go over and clean up the adds, get your mana back and move away from the shield so that you don't aggro the boss when he comes.

Even if the shield has 30% when the boss comes that is still considerable, it will take him a while to get it down. We typically try to engage him at 15% being the lowest point.

I have seen the runs finish at 100% shield and 15% shield, and both are just as successful.

Also, you have longer between portals than people seem to think. When a new portal opens people often rush to it, don't do this. Take time, get mana back and get ready. I'm not saying AFK or anything but don't be in a mad rush with your healer at 1/3rd mana when you rush the portal. The worst thing that can happen is that the adds become very numerous and the shield starts losing some power. After the portal, just go by clean up a few and drop a beacon if you need.

Tip for the end boss, he does an aoe at an angle in front of him. Have anyone with a beacon remaining drop it behind or on the flank of the boss so he does not take the mobs out with an aoe. We typically drop our beacons after the second time stop. This accelerates the fight and will make up for shortcomings in mana pool and or tank HP or damage mitigation.

BTW we actually have a disc priest in the guild who handles the adds at times, he is good with it and has no issues handling them.

[Solléx]

I did the adds as a hunter. I pwn I know

hunters are better at adds imo. There pets can intercept the adds and the hunters can pick off things.

Ive ran BM so far with these teams:

Prot Warrior
destro lock
demo lock (me)
hunter
priest

and
fury/arms warrior
rogue
mage
me
priest

If mages are on the adds, they pretty much have to have a helper (from what Ive seen I havent come across a mage who has had the ability to manage adds without losing all his mana). Im always half adds half bosses. Felguard is in LOS with the adds and Medivh, on aggressive, so he starts attacking the adds as they get close. Then the mage can use less mana. Same with hunter; I was still half/half.

Putting one person on adds is kinda bad since you have to have insane mana pools (mages/hunters) to keep up, and if the rest of the team isnt strong enough to take the rift lords down fast enough, then you are on a constant run, and no one has enough time to drink/eat.

just my two cents.

[Steamboat]

In my experience an affliction warlock is the best for soloing the adds in BM. I can attest that you can fear/dot them all to death, hit dark pact, do it again. All day. If there were 50 waves, your warlock would still be good to go.

[rgirty]

hunters are better at adds imo. There pets can intercept the adds and the hunters can pick off things.

Ive ran BM so far with these teams:

Prot Warrior
destro lock
demo lock (me)
hunter
priest

and
fury/arms warrior
rogue
mage
me
priest

If mages are on the adds, they pretty much have to have a helper (from what Ive seen I havent come across a mage who has had the ability to manage adds without losing all his mana). Im always half adds half bosses. Felguard is in LOS with the adds and Medivh, on aggressive, so he starts attacking the adds as they get close. Then the mage can use less mana. Same with hunter; I was still half/half.

Putting one person on adds is kinda bad since you have to have insane mana pools (mages/hunters) to keep up, and if the rest of the team isnt strong enough to take the rift lords down fast enough, then you are on a constant run, and no one has enough time to drink/eat.

just my two cents.

I was under the belief that once a hunter's cycle shot warmed up single target dps was better than multiple target.

The mages that do it for our groups help with nearly every portal and still take all the adds. I realize not everyone can do this, and aren't running around with 1k+ spell damage.

I've never had a problem with a single person on adds. I've never had a problem with dropping that person a heal, or stopping for healer mana.

I ran this 4x over the weekend and never once stopped for a drink until the end boss. Our group is a little OP and not saying everyone would have the same experience, but from what I understand a mage is standard for the adds.

I have seen a priest and lock both do it well however.

[paranoidj]

Best setup I`ve found is:

Warrior
Shadow Priest
Shaman/Holy Priest
Mage
Warlock (Affliction/Ruin)

I (warlock) usually solo the adds since I can maintain full mana by lifetaping while Vampiric Embrace procs from the shadow priest. On boss`s I`ll be included in the dps but still have to dot up the spawned dragonkins while void tanks them. The whelps on these stages I just ignore since they can be easily AoE down at the end.

This setup is easy mode aslong as everyone has good dps and can easily be cleared just over 20 minutes from the start of the first wave.

[moopy]

We usually have a rogue or mage do the adds, with a second DPSser briefed to help out if they get too unruly. Having a rogue or enhancement shammy kill the big adds and a mage AoE the whelps works nicely too, and means that they both spend most of their time on the rift keepers.

I've done adds as a hunter, it works. However, it's a waste, as hunter dps only really "warms up" in a shot cycle, so you're wasting DPS that would be better spent on the boss. Rogues and mages are great for the adds (as are warlocks), except backstab rogues, of course, who are all but useless. Enhancement shammies smash the adds to bits very fast, though with no target that stays alive for more than about ten seconds, they don't have an opportunity to use shamanistic rage to regain mana the way that they would when DPSsing the boss.

To be honest, the black morass isn't hard with an all-70 party of people, with a healer, a tank and three dpssers- if no-one is afk. If people are slacking, it can get a bit much, but if you're all awake, this instance should be a total cakewalk. Precise class mix isn't critical- just five decent players, three dps, one healer, one tank and you're home and dry.

Lots of PUGs have problems with BM, but that's mostly because they suck, and don't do their jobs properly. If someone is slacking, the timed nature of the instance makes things tedious.

[Krollin]

Best for Adds are: DPS Warriors, non-Dagger Combat Rogues, Feral Druids, Warlocks, BM Hunters, Enhancement Shaman, Retridins, Tankadins.

Dagger Rogues can do the job, Mutilate Rogues especially but the positioning requirement for max DPS is a real pain. Much better to have them on the Rift Lords.

In BM we have long stopped using Beacons on any of the bosses. Basically you can keep someone on the adds from waves 1-12 at all times if your DPS is high enough to get the Rift mobs down fast.
After that use Beacons on waves 13-17, put everyone on the Rift mobs and you should have no adds at all.

[Kitano]

As a Hunter I can, and I have, solely taken the adds. A good Hunter is certainly capable but it's really a waste of their effective single target DPS. I find an Ice Mage is the most effective on the adds but a Fire Mage can do just as well if they're good.

[swaldman]

I've seen the following successfully solo the adds:

- Mage
- Rogue
- dps warrior
- druid
- Enhancement shaman

The druid and the shammy were the nicest for me, because they don't particularly need healing and were self-sufficient. The mage shouldn't be getting hit, the warrior doesn't mind being hit, the rogue can be a problem if he doesn't stay in healing range.

I've tried it once with a hunter and failed, but that may not have been the hunter's fault.

[Krollin]

You don't actually need to kill the Rift Lord on wave 17, just take the adds until the last Boss spawns, after a short while the Rift Lord left over despawns.

Good way to recover if someone dies on Wave 17..

[Twoflower]

oh come on. these are non elite lvl 70 mobs that come out of this portal. If you can not kill them faster than they spawn whit ANY class that is specced for damage, you should think about deleting your char and stop playing WoW. it is ridicolously easy.

I ve done this many times, whit fire and whit ice spec. Whit fire spec these damn things take 2 fireballs and a fireblast ( total cast time : 6 seconds ) and they are history. Where is the problem ?

[YamahaGuy]

Never had a mage do ALL ads.

Just the flying welps.

Someone else gets the larger single ads.

Yes, rogue always on the elite. Hmmm rogue. Its funny cuz they get feared in BM a lot... heh heh

go go goooo rogue!

Anyway.

OKAY, so the people who complain to me the most about black morass, are the ones who take HORRIBLE group composition, then say something like "well, they all need attuned". and I shake my head.

[swaldman]

IMHO the reason that so many groups fail on BM is a simple one that I've noted on another thread: in the expansion, the dps classes have to wake up and perform.

Black Morass is quite nice in some ways in that 95% of the times that you wipe, you can't blame the tank, you can't blame the healer - it's all down to dps.
If a group fails on the first attempt due to a clear lack of dps, rather than a silly mistake or a disconnect (grrr), then I've taken to leaving rather than trying again.

[Twoflower]

Never had a mage do ALL ads.

Just the flying welps.

Someone else gets the larger single ads.



2 people for adds ? and one DD for the elite, or what ?

as i said before, get your Mage to get his act together. it is easy.

[maladroit2000]

Two points:

1) Its not necessary to go charging into the next rift lord as soon as you kill one - if people are low on mana just sit and drink and the group can kill any adds that spawn then go for the Rift Lord. There is plenty of time for this.

2) If you are getting a bit overwhelmed with the adds or low on mana just kite them until the rift lord is dead and have the rest of the group mop up. The sit and regen mana.

People don't seem to realise you don't have to go at breakneck speed. This is the only cause of trouble in any run I've done. Since the second boss was made much easier in the recent patch I would say its almost impossible to wipe in this instance now provided people are sensible and take their time.

Feral druids are great - no need for them to be healed, can do great single target dps, can agro multiple mobs with hurricane if necessary and can go bear form and tank/swipe them if things get hairy.

[Fleas]

I've always done it the same way:

Mage solos adds by the shield.
Everyone else DPS's the elite (fast).
After it dies, and before the next portal, the group helps the mage.
The mage eats/drinks between.

It's intense. This is one of the instances that made me a better priest.

[YamahaGuy]

2 people for adds ? and one DD for the elite, or what ?

Basically 2 on ads, but both also hit the elite inbetween / before spawns.

Guess to say people have their own methods.... I mean, we havnt had any problems.

[rgirty]

oh come on. these are non elite lvl 70 mobs that come out of this portal. If you can not kill them faster than they spawn whit ANY class that is specced for damage, you should think about deleting your char and stop playing WoW. it is ridicolously easy.

I ve done this many times, whit fire and whit ice spec. Whit fire spec these damn things take 2 fireballs and a fireblast ( total cast time : 6 seconds ) and they are history. Where is the problem ?

For future reference you could save yourself a lot of typing if you are going to post like this is the official boards and just use the term "l2play".

Obviously they are having difficulty with the instance, hence the ops questions and detail about the problem.

Strangest thing for me, I though bm was timed? I've completed it on numerous occasions and it almost always takes 40-45 minutes how do you do it in 20?

[YamahaGuy]

While were on the subject of BM.

Ran that place like 999 times trying to get my pants off final =( never got them.

Go back there the other day to help someones ALT, and the pants dropped.

Now obsolete to purple pants. Sigh.

Blizzard really good at playing head games =/

[kodeeak]

10/48/3 spec and have no problems with the adds, handle them solo on a regular basis when running guildies through for gear/attunement.

If you're having trouble as a fire spec mage because you're running out of mana I would suggest:

1) are you using your arsenal of spells effectively? Are you counterspelling casters, aoe'ing the welps with blastwave, ae... are you using your disorient spells effectively (dragon's breath if you have it).

2) are you using your trinkets as often as possible? helps immensely

3) are you too worried about "catching up" to the group on the lords/bosses? as the add killer, you'll be 30 seconds behind the main group almost all the time. drink as they are starting the next portal, intercept adds after drinking.

4) are you using ranged as often as possible? even on the welps i usually open with a flamestrike, blast wave, ae and all 3 are dead. use scorch to finish off almost dead mobs so as not to waste time and mana.

5) is the dps on the lord just not high enough that it affords you the opportunity to handle the adds? so many times people complain about the mage on the adds but if they are killing the lords too slow, you're doomed to fail as the portals open up on a timer.

hope it helps.

[mesonm]

10/48/3 spec and have no problems with the adds, handle them solo on a regular basis when running guildies through for gear/attunement.

If you're having trouble as a fire spec mage because you're running out of mana I would suggest:

1) are you using your arsenal of spells effectively? Are you counterspelling casters, aoe'ing the welps with blastwave, ae... are you using your disorient spells effectively (dragon's breath if you have it).

2) are you using your trinkets as often as possible? helps immensely

3) are you too worried about "catching up" to the group on the lords/bosses? as the add killer, you'll be 30 seconds behind the main group almost all the time. drink as they are starting the next portal, intercept adds after drinking.

4) are you using ranged as often as possible? even on the welps i usually open with a flamestrike, blast wave, ae and all 3 are dead. use scorch to finish off almost dead mobs so as not to waste time and mana.

5) is the dps on the lord just not high enough that it affords you the opportunity to handle the adds? so many times people complain about the mage on the adds but if they are killing the lords too slow, you're doomed to fail as the portals open up on a timer.

hope it helps.

I'm not doing several things you mention, and will try again this weekend.

Many thanks to everyone for your suggestions!

[kodeeak]

I'm not doing several things you mention, and will try again this weekend.

Many thanks to everyone for your suggestions!
good luck and let us know how it turns out..

[meikyo]

I've done this on numerous occasions as a fire mage without any problems...well there are two potential problems.

1. The party is too slow, I cant nuke two portals of adds at once...everyone starts trying to clean up the adds only helping the 3rd portal to open and seal our fate. Which reminds me, if adds get backed up at medivh don't dps them there, you just get infinite aggro, drop a damn beacon if you somehow get that far behind. If you're too slow, well for one the party isn't going to work, but at the very least try to take down the rift lords asap.

2. Someone is grabbing aggro on the mobs. For every portal there is a spot I like to stand at and let the mobs path to me. Demo shout, thunderclap, multi shot = annoying. As a fire mage without clearcasting I have 0 mana problems on adds, and I'm at the point now where I can do adds and throw in few fireballs at rift lords per fight...except if I have to chase after the damn adds because you pulled aggro! My mage isnt super decked out either,he has two 70 epics and the rest is endgame blues. Like two said, fireball, fireball,fireblast does the job for singles. Whelps portals 1-12 blastwave,dragon's breath, and maybe an arcane explosion.(ofc this last part is for fire mage's, for anyone else you're on your own)

Last time I went to bm I brought my rogue instead. We had a boomkin who had +healing as half of his dps gear...it was sloppy but we got it done second try.

I think this topic has been beaten to death. Hope this helped a bit for you and hopefully others. As for me, I still avoid bm pugs...all pugs even.

[shifttusk]

I did the adds as a hunter. I pwn I know

I've done the same its not too hard. I smoke the big ones and Multi over an explosive did in the welps.