Has anyone switched from PvP to PvE and why?

[Katrala]

My very first character was on a PvE server, but that only lasted about week. I started a PvP server with some friends and I've stuck with it up until level 62 (current).

However, I've become so frustrated by the amount of ganking that I'm seriously considering switching to a PvE server. I enjoy PvP, but not when I'm killed dozens of times in an hour or so. It gets to the point where it's not fun anymore.

I'm cool with PvP when it's a fair fight, but it really bothers me when..
1) Someone 10+ levels higher than me ganks me. Of coruse, then they have to /dance, /laugh, whatever. Is killing someone that much lower than you something to really consider an accomplishment?

2) I'm ganked over and over by a player when my health and mana are 50% or less. They know I don't stand a chance, so where is the challenge for them?

3) A group of horde will camp either my body or the graveyard and not tire of it. Sitting there for 30+ minutes waiting for me (and others around me that they've killed) to rez so they can kill all over again.

I was reading Blizzard's PvP rules and it seems that all of this is fair - however, I hate having to just log out and come back later because I can't manage to get away from the people that are attacking me (they are also camping graveyards at the same time).

I wish there was some type of limit on PvP - such as a certain number of times that someone can be killed by a certain player in a given amount of time. For example, you can only be killed by the same person 3 or 4 times within a 20 or 30 minute period. It would allow you to still have that interaction, but at least allow an out every once in a while if you've reached your kill limit. Not giving honor doesn't work - the people who are repeatedly ganking lower level players aren't doing it for honor, obviously.

/rant

[cyks]

My friend started playing WoW on a PvP server (had gotten to lvl 40 or so there)... then when I started- they joined me and a bunch of other RL friends on their PvE server. Needless to say, they couldn't believe how much easier everything was to actually accomplish anything- especially STV as they'd just experienced it on a PvP.

Any time they miss it- they just flag up for a little while... and are quickly reminded why they left (for most of the reasons you pointed out).

[NOYB]

One thing that makes a huge difference on a PvP realm is faction ratio. If you're unlucky to be massively outnumbered, it will be a huge gank-a-thon. Certainly, not fun to always be the underdog. If you are on the side with all the numbers in your favor; or at least somewhat even, it's not bad at all.

I'd recommend rolling a PvE toon before you make the transfer. Also, check warcraftrealms.com. Pay attention to the total population, server age, and ratio. These things are all fairly important in increasing your enjoyment of the game. A well-populated server, with an even distribution of horde/alliance means easy groups and good auction house/economy. Once you've found your "ideal" server; and you've decided you enjoy PvE more than PvP -- make the switch.

Good Luck.

[SLUGFly]

STV is the worst ganking zone I've seen yet. Yesterday I had a guy help me kill a mob I was fighting... and then after it died I started to type "/than..." and he one-shotted me o.0

[Sakyyra]

I wish there was some type of limit on PvP - such as a certain number of times that someone can be killed by a certain player in a given amount of time. For example, you can only be killed by the same person 3 or 4 times within a 20 or 30 minute period. It would allow you to still have that interaction, but at least allow an out every once in a while if you've reached your kill limit. Not giving honor doesn't work - the people who are repeatedly ganking lower level players aren't doing it for honor, obviously.


That`s a nice idea. But with your concerns now it looks like a PvE server would fit you better...

I personnally am on a PvE server, have always been and am enjoying it very much. As I see it, a PvE server is just like a PvP one, less the ganking. If I ever want to do some PvP, I just go to the battlegrounds.

It also happened to me a couple of times while questing to run into a horde player, stare at him... and turn PvP on. Most of the time we end up fighting.
So this way you still can have some PvP combat with mutual agreement.

[Sakyyra]

One thing that makes a huge difference on a PvP realm is faction ratio. If you're unlucky to be massively outnumbered, it will be a huge gank-a-thon. Certainly, not fun to always be the underdog. If you are on the side with all the numbers in your favor; or at least somewhat even, it's not bad at all.

I'd recommend rolling a PvE toon before you make the transfer. Also, check warcraftrealms.com. Pay attention to the total population, server age, and ratio. These things are all fairly important in increasing your enjoyment of the game. A well-populated server, with an even distribution of horde/alliance means easy groups and good auction house/economy. Once you've found your "ideal" server; and you've decided you enjoy PvE more than PvP -- make the switch.

Good Luck.

Link removed, please don't link to sites with gold seller ads

There`s something found on this site I find quite astonishing.

On PvP servers, Alliance to Horde ratio is 1 : 1.1 so Horde is slightly more popular.
But on PvE servers, the ratio is 2:1. Alliance completely dominates.


Anyone can explain this?

[cyks]

There`s something found on this site I find quite astonishing.

On PvP servers, Alliance to Horde ratio is 1 : 1.1 so Horde is slightly more popular.
But on PvE servers, the ratio is 2:1. Alliance completely dominates.


Anyone can explain this?


Casual players and people who play more for social then gaming... usually choose Alliance side PvE. That also explains the abundance of Humans, Nelfs, Undead, and now- Belfs... casual gamers tend to pick 'what looks good' and what they can relate to.

[Amurko]

You may want to create alts.. especially on a PvP realm. When your main gets camped, switch to an alt. When that alt gets camped, switch to yet another alt. Turn this into a contest and see how many people you can get simultaneously camping all your alts (and hence how many people's free time you're wasting) for a cheap thrill.

[JaedxRapture]

The Player versus Player (PvP) servers are specifically designed to allow open combat between members of the Horde and the Alliance factions. As such, players on these servers have a greater ability to resolve cross-faction disputes on their own. By choosing to play on a PvP server, you have chosen to move the game difficulty slider from "Easy" to "Hard." While this makes attaining any goal all the more satisfying, expect the road to be paved with sorrow.

That sums it up pretty well. Quoted from the official site. By choosing a PvP server, you accept a new unique and realisitic challenge of open PvP.

[LucidTaint]

I played on a PvP server for the first 2 years of the game. But some real life friends of mine had started their toons on a PvE server and would occassionally point out that I should go play with them.

The thing is, when I first started playing this game, things were a lot different for me. I only worked part time, back then, and was between schooling. I had a lot more free time on my hands. Now, I work full time and go to school part time, which makes my free time very precious. I don't want to spend it making corpse runs because I'm being camped by gankers.

So when they opened up the ability to pay to transfer servers, I paid to have my highest level characters transferred over to my friends' PvE server. And I've been enjoying the perks of the server, such as being able to do high level quests that I wasn't able to do on the PvP server (because you would just get ganked in the midst of trying to kill quest mobs).

One of my friends from the old PvP server wanted me to come back, so a couple of months ago I rolled a new toon over there. It was fun until I got to level 20, ran to Duskwood for the first time, and was killed. After sitting around for about 20 minutes, watching the 8 level ?? Horde camp my corpse, I remembered why I had stopped playing on the PvP server. I just didn't have the time to deal with that kind of stuff anymore.

If I want to PvP, I go to the battlegrounds. Or, as someone else pointed out, you can toss your PvP flag up. The funny thing about PvE servers is, they'll hop on someone who is flagged faster than players on a PvP server will (must be a side-effect of not constantly being around people who are attackable, when you see one who is you feel the urge to reach out and smack it).

But if you have the time to deal with it, by all means, go with the PvP server. For me, I'd rather spend my time accomplishing things in the game. ^.^

[det]

..... on their PvE server. Needless to say, they couldn't believe how much easier everything was to actually accomplish anything- especially STV as they'd just experienced it on a PvP.

Any time they miss it- they just flag up for a little while... and are quickly reminded why they left (for most of the reasons you pointed out).

That is pretty much my idea why I am on a PvE realm. And even dislike Battlegrounds at times ^^

All these PvP threads boil down to: You know what you did when you chose a PvP realm...and all suggested "solutions" are just a crutch. A player killed you 4 times, now you are "immune" to him. But you haven't killed him at all. Does that mean now you gank back and he can't defend himself?

PvP realms might make players better at the game, but I firmly believe it also brings out the worst in some people....

[LucidSpirit]

Casual players and people who play more for social then gaming... usually choose Alliance side PvE. That also explains the abundance of Humans, Nelfs, Undead, and now- Belfs... casual gamers tend to pick 'what looks good' and what they can relate to.

I think this is true...However, Blizzard do put in a lot of effort into load balancing their servers, and faction ratios play an important part in the criteria.

[Aswer]

I suppose different things make us tick, I find PvE servers as fun as watching paint dry TBH, I like to have some emotion when I'm back home after work. :afro: Anyway, it's not half as bad as some people put it. I've leveled all my toons 32-40ish in STV (I'm quite stubborn about it) and even that is not so bad.

[Serrat]

I The funny thing about PvE servers is, they'll hop on someone who is flagged faster than players on a PvP server will (must be a side-effect of not constantly being around people who are attackable, when you see one who is you feel the urge to reach out and smack it).



haha aint that the truth, its like you suddenly stick a neon light sign above your char with writing flashing saying "Please attack me now" free cookies for all or something.

of course it could have just been the "shaman flagged here get your easy kill here"
:laugh:

[Sturm]

I made 4 level 60s on Burning Legion. All horde - all outnumbered by the 1:1.5 ratio we had back then. I hated leveling, but loved the PvE aspects.

Now I recently decided to start on a PvE realm again since I have had a long break. And to be honest - this suits me so much more. Being able to level at my own pace and never having to look over my shoulder is just great.

I would recommend PvE for ppl with limited time. Don't waste your time on being ganked - then gank back - then getting even more ganked etc.

The PvP aspect of the PvE realms is as funny as I remembered on the PvP realm. And saying ppl on PvP realms play better is just a plain lie. Being good at looking over your shoulder doesn't make u a better player. :P

[Katrala]

All these PvP threads boil down to: You know what you did when you chose a PvP realm...and all suggested "solutions" are just a crutch. A player killed you 4 times, now you are "immune" to him. But you haven't killed him at all. Does that mean now you gank back and he can't defend himself?
Good point.

It would have to be that if you have reached your kill limit with a certain player, then you would have to also be unable to kill him/her for that given increment of time. Possible option off/on from the UI.


PvP realms might make players better at the game, but I firmly believe it also brings out the worst in some people....
Yes, this is what I'm seeing. Last night I went into a cave in Zangarmarsh and saw a horde player the same level as me. He was in the middle of fighting two mobs and close to death. I helped him kill one, then /wave, and walked in the other direction to kill so we wouldn't get in each other's way. As soon as I am in combat with a mob and my health is half down, he ganks me.

*sigh*

Can anyone recommend any good PvE servers that aren't too full but are pretty evenly balanced?

[Sturm]

If u want to play alliance I can recommend Aerie Peak. It's medium populated, hasn't got lag issues and the ppl I have met so far have been really nice.
:wave:

[Eileithyia]

I recently transferred my Mage at lvl 38 from a PVP realm to a PVE. This was mainly because to servers population was full and was very laggy, also because of the Gank factor.
I always found it was usually 2 allys against 1 Horde. I don’t mind 1v1 but when it’s usually 2 ganking you it can get a bit frustrating. But at the end of the day, thats life on a PVP realm.

[kcma]

My very first character was on a PvE server, but that only lasted about week. I started a PvP server with some friends and I've stuck with it up until level 62 (current).

However, I've become so frustrated by the amount of ganking that I'm seriously considering switching to a PvE server. I enjoy PvP, but not when I'm killed dozens of times in an hour or so. It gets to the point where it's not fun anymore.

I'm cool with PvP when it's a fair fight, but it really bothers me when..
1) Someone 10+ levels higher than me ganks me. Of coruse, then they have to /dance, /laugh, whatever. Is killing someone that much lower than you something to really consider an accomplishment?

2) I'm ganked over and over by a player when my health and mana are 50% or less. They know I don't stand a chance, so where is the challenge for them?

3) A group of horde will camp either my body or the graveyard and not tire of it. Sitting there for 30+ minutes waiting for me (and others around me that they've killed) to rez so they can kill all over again.

I was reading Blizzard's PvP rules and it seems that all of this is fair - however, I hate having to just log out and come back later because I can't manage to get away from the people that are attacking me (they are also camping graveyards at the same time).

I wish there was some type of limit on PvP - such as a certain number of times that someone can be killed by a certain player in a given amount of time. For example, you can only be killed by the same person 3 or 4 times within a 20 or 30 minute period. It would allow you to still have that interaction, but at least allow an out every once in a while if you've reached your kill limit. Not giving honor doesn't work - the people who are repeatedly ganking lower level players aren't doing it for honor, obviously.

/rant

1) i play on pvp realm because i love the rush of escaping and surviving the ganking by lvl ???

2) i play on pvp realm because there arent many things more satisfying than surviving and defeating a ganker who ambushed you half dead with mobs engaged.

3) i play on pvp realm because i love escaping from a group of enemies or somehow defeat them

so basically... L2P or do it the easy way, reroll on pve and save yourself the hassle of Ling2P :)

I'm cool with PvP when it's a fair fight,

let me translate that. i'm cool with pvp when i want to pvp... but really, i'm not cool with pvp at all.

you don't have to like pvp, that's why we have pve realms. but come on, let's at least pretend to be honest about ourselves. you don't like pvp.

making you a better player than bringing out the worst in you? GREAT!! that's a challenge an AI can't do!! sign me up!

[Renata]

It has nothing to do with "l2play" (a cliche in the game world I'm growing to loathe). I have characters on both PvP and PvE servers. I prefer PvE for one simple reason: I can choose when and where I interact with other players, either for negative or positive reasonss. Some days, I just want to be left alone and left to do my own thing on my own, not because I "can't" deal with PvPing, but because I really don't want to. I don't want some other person dictating how I play my game that day by imposing themselves on me.

There are different types of servers for a reason. Not everyone thinks the adrenaline rush is a positive thing -- not because it is something they can't handle, but because they don't like having their lives invaded by some jerk who thinks it's funny to harass you. Sometimes I just grin and say "bring it on!" but other days, I just want to be left to finish my quests in peace, do what I want to do on my terms, not on someone else's terms.

I played PvP on the worst server in Everquest, Sullon Zek (the "no rules is good rules" server). Believe me, I've seen PvP at its absolute worst. It can still be fun at times, but it can also be intensely frustrating.

So for the most part, I play PvE and the PvP realm remains my alt server. I just wonder why PvPers think that this is somehow copping out, because I don't prefer to play the game the same way they do.

...Ren

[OneMadOgre]

I would recommend PvE for ppl with limited time. Don't waste your time on being ganked - then gank back - then getting even more ganked etc.

The PvP aspect of the PvE realms is as funny as I remembered on the PvP realm. And saying ppl on PvP realms play better is just a plain lie. Being good at looking over your shoulder doesn't make u a better player. :P

I'd agree wholeheartedly about the time. If your main is still lvl62, you don't have the time required to really level on a PvP server. You're going to spend a lot of your time running as a ghost and you're going to be happier on a PvE server. Flag and run around when you miss the old days, and they will be back to visit you soon enough.

The PvP players in my experience are usually better players, not because they have some inate ability, it's because they play (hence practice) more. WoW really isn't much of a skill game as it is a practice game.

[Babobery]

I also used to play EQ on a zek server, after they all merged it was literally the worst aspect of pvp every seen. I rolled PvE for the reasons mentioned above, mainly because my free time is too valuable to be wasted by some frustrated person picking me off from 40 yards away when all I was trying to do is move between zones.

In my eyes if I wanted to test myself against other people I would play counter strike, WoW has enough balancing issues to leave the average person aggrieved against at least 1 or 2 classes even in an even level fight.

[Aswer]

I respect the decision of those who play on carebear realms, but what I hate most is those that decide to roll on PvP realms like mine and then spend their life complaining on realm forums, due to, attention, ZOMG, PvP!!!!

[Katrala]

let me translate that. i'm cool with pvp when i want to pvp... but really, i'm not cool with pvp at all.


I think your translator is broken. :)

Do I enjoy PvP? Sure. But I don't gank players that are 10-15 players lower than me because it's not a fair fight. When I PvP against something, I want to be able to say that I kicked their rear in a good fight, not without stooping to tactics such as waiting until they were half down, etc. Where's the fun in that?

Have I killed players that tried to gank me? Sure. Is it fun? Sure. But I only do it once and then I typically leave them alone (unless they come back and engage again - then I fight again). I don't waste time camping their corpse, waiting for them to rez. I'm there to have fun, not make someone else's life miserable.

[Serrat]

of course at least on pvp servers you pretty much know you are going to be attacked.

if the pve servers are anything like mine(rp server fyi) when you are flagged its not so much the flagged enemies that are a problem, its the herds of unflagged people that attack.

of course this comes down to the servers erm attitude proberbly being rp and all.

but it is amusing when you take halaa with 5 horde then slowly over time more and more unflagged alliance fly in to the area untill they outnumber you 4-1 then attack :laugh:

on the point of pvp servers everyone should know what they are letting themselves in for, perhaps they should rename them gank servers just to avoid the problem we seem to have now, lots of people going to pvp servers and realising its aint for them.

ive played pvp servers in previous games ive played, however when i came to wow mainly due to a lack of time to be able to play compared to in the past i didnt roll on a pvp server, i like pvping be it the BGs arenas or world pvp, but prefere to fight when i want.

spending my evening running back to my corpse didnt interest me anymore:grin:

oh and the people who are complaining about ganking, camping and zerging should have been around back when ultima online came out with its original ruleset(before they changed it) now that was pvp, red guys running around in packs killing anyone they could and looting all of there items, fun times:thumbsup:

[Tr1cK]

I spent my first year and a half on PVE. Made 2 60s...one epicced out. Gave it all up and rerolled on PVP with a warrior. He's now 70 and transferred to the PVE server with my others to do real PVE.

There is no point at all for PVP servers in WoW. The "world pvp" objectives flag you automatically on any server and those are the only things worth doing for quest rewards & faction. The only thing PVP servers are good for are pains in my ass during raid times. 30 of the opposite faction camped outside of kara is not my idea of fun when it delays the raid.

Seriously, who open world PVPs anymore? It's all about the gear or the grind, which you will only get from battlegrounds, arena, or world objectives. If you could get rewarded more for open world PVP, it might be more worth it, but as it stands now, its not.

And to the poster above, I was in on UO WAYYY back in The Second Age. THAT was a real mmorpg. There was no PVP, it was ALL PVP!

[Drakkor]

I like PvP for the chance of a fight you don't expect - is getting ganked by a ?? frustrating, sure it is, but a quick pst to friends and the tide turns ... lol.
We have fun w/it - horde ganks me, I call friends - we gank them - they call friends - gank us back ect... we've had as many 6-7 players lvl's 40 to 70 fighting each other in STV or Tanaris - it's like a BG in the open, great fun. Usually when we're done we end up in Gadgetzan or Booty Bay laughing, waving, bowing ect to the Horde players we just fought and vice-versa. There have been some real idiots that just can't stand to lose and will get help until they outnumber us or outlevel us and try to camp our corpe or run from a fair fight, but hey that's fine - we remember thier names .... lol
Karma sux and yes even if your a 40 and we have a 70 w/us and you participated in a gank fest agianst us, well your gonna die if we see you even if your all alone tryingto quest - that's PvP life.

[earindur]

OP

I too went through what you went through. at lvl 32 i ganked a player (29) of the opposite faction. didnt camp him, just ganked him for killing my named mob i was waiting for.

An hour or two passed then out of nowhere i was steamrolled by 4 lvl 60/s (highest back then) in tier 3 and camped me for 55+ mins to the graveyard and back. i even logged for 20 of those minutes and they were still there.

posts up on the official forums calling me out about it, etc. made my way onto his guilds KoS list for some BS reason he made up about me camping his alt? (one gank aint camping).

Turned out i ganked the wrong persons alt and was crucified from 1-60, then 60-70 too.finally got my own back in halaa a month or two ago and followed him up and down halaa till he eventually logged off. more posts on the forums but it just goes to show idiots like him cant take it when the playing field is leveled.

Stick it out m8, pvp servers have so much more random fun.

[Eonblue]

Yeah, ganking and camping is inevidable on pvp but it can be a lot of fun leveling pvp to. I would also advise rolling a few alts, most of mine are on pvp, but i do have one on a pve server. I tend to keep them at different levels and even utilize 3 different servers, this ensures i can always play and accomplish something :)

[fzyx]

PVP can be fun, but it can also suck based on horde:alliance ratio, your class, your race, or just your constitution for getting "ganked". I love it and hate it at the same time, I'd switch to a PVE server but I'd feel hollow if I ever reached lvl 70 knowing I had taken the easy way out. On PVP if I survive until a top-level I'll feel like I've accomplished something.

But to all those who say, "oh QQ, its a pvp server, why did you roll on a pvp server if you don't like getting ganked by ??'s". Blizzard hasn't gotten anything perfect in this game, why can't they modify pvp to make it more sporting?

One idea I read somewhere was that supporting NPC troops should fly into heavily ganked areas to protect their faction. So if 10 high-level horde are camping neringway's camp in STV and ganking low-levels trying to quest, troops would come running/flying in from other zones to settle things down. This would give 10-20 minutes of PVP "fun" and then force the campers to either leave before support shows up or get their butts kicked. It would also have the interesting side-effect that now darkshire and lakeshire are unprotected. Or maybe they should be a neutral policing faction to refresh stale ganking/camping situations.

Just one idea, but the point is PVP is not perfect at the moment and there is no reason blizz couldn't make it better. Except that they may not care, because they make the same money whether you are PVE or PVP.

[Sturm]

Just add a pvp penalty for killing greys.
Take away honor for honorless kills?

Can't be that hard to do.

[DraedynLei]

honestly it all boils down to preferences. but the thing i see is that some PVP'ers are elitists. cuz they play on a PVP realm they are suddenly better players than PVE players? its a bunch of bull. i'm not saying that their pvp skills aren't better, but from the countless scenarios i've read, pvp seems more about waiting for someone to be at 50% health and mana, totally outnumbering or out lvling someone and then walking in and ganking them. where's the skill in that? there is none. look im lvl 70 and i just one-shotted that lvl 40. i'm elite! they just like the idea of killing players instead of mobs imo.

true pvp takes place in arenas and BGs, where things are balanced and controlled. thats when you find out who really is better if thats your kind of thing. 3v1 or taking someone out when they just finished fighting a mob and are drinking doesn't prove anything. and you can do arenas and BGs on PVE servers. just my two cents.

[fzyx]

honestly it all boils down to preferences. but the thing i see is that some PVP'ers are elitists. cuz they play on a PVP realm they are suddenly better players than PVE players? its a bunch of bull. i'm not saying that their pvp skills aren't better, but from the countless scenarios i've read, pvp seems more about waiting for someone to be at 50% health and mana, totally outnumbering or out lvling someone and then walking in and ganking them. where's the skill in that? there is none. look im lvl 70 and i just one-shotted that lvl 40. i'm elite! they just like the idea of killing players instead of mobs imo.

true pvp takes place in arenas and BGs, where things are balanced and controlled. thats when you find out who really is better if thats your kind of thing. 3v1 or taking someone out when they just finished fighting a mob and are drinking doesn't prove anything. and you can do arenas and BGs on PVE servers. just my two cents.

I'd say about 95% of the pvp I've encountered is as you described, but the remaining 5% is so great that it is worth it.

The other day I was on my horse (just hit 40 as a mage) running down the road in wetlands towards menethil and blew past a horde priest running the other way (lvl 39). I stopped, dismounted, and we stood there facing off for a little bit, then went at it. It was a great fight that I ended up barely winning when I counter-spelled his heal. I suppose it could have happened on a PVE server, but the fact that he could have been a ?? and destroyed me just adds that little bit of extra thrill to the encounter. It actually makes the contested areas really feel dangerous which adds so much to the game that I can't imagine you would feel otherwise. The only thing that ruins it is the camping.

In all honesty, if I had the safety net of PVE I probably never would PVP and probably never would have bothered using battlegrounds to harden my pvp.

[Eonblue]

I like that idea to an extent as bit as blizz has already started leaning that way in som respect, think contested territories that can be controlled and once controlled will have rider pats that, or perhaps when an area is controlled by an opposing faction there are npcs elites who roam the area 'looking for trouble', that might disuade gankers a bit from camping...
or..perhaps bring back some kind of dishonor points...perhaps if you kill a player 6+ levels below you it will result in an honor kill penalty of a few 25 points at level 70..not a lot mind you, but enough to keep ppl from camping boddies as that would add up.

But then the other side of me thinks, part of the joy in pvp is trecking through an area keepin an eye out potential gankers..makes my heart race a bit :)

[Katrala]

Just add a pvp penalty for killing greys.
Take away honor for honorless kills?

Can't be that hard to do.

This would be interesting. Take away honor or have some type of penalty for killing greys unless they hit you first.

Also, I wish they would allow potions to continue if you're killed by a member of the opposing factions. It's ridiculous to use potions and be ganked a minute later, wasting most of it. If another playing ganking you doesn't make you lose item durability, it also shouldn't make you lose potions that you have just imbibed, either.

[fzyx]

I like that idea to an extent as bit as blizz has already started leaning that way in som respect, think contested territories that can be controlled and once controlled will have rider pats that, or perhaps when an area is controlled by an opposing faction there are npcs elites who roam the area 'looking for trouble', that might disuade gankers a bit from camping...
or..perhaps bring back some kind of dishonor points...perhaps if you kill a player 6+ levels below you it will result in an honor kill penalty of a few 25 points at level 70..not a lot mind you, but enough to keep ppl from camping boddies as that would add up.

But then the other side of me thinks, part of the joy in pvp is trecking through an area keepin an eye out potential gankers..makes my heart race a bit :)

Getting ganked once is cool, its the camping that ruins it. So maybe dishonor points that double for every repeated killing within 10 minutes. 1st camp = 25 dishonor points, 2nd = 50, 100, 200, 400, etc... Though I like the idea of patrolling NPC's more since it makes the game more dynamic.

Not that I expect Blizzard to implement either since they haven't yet, but its always good to dream.

[Cow Vs The World]

Just one idea, but the point is PVP is not perfect at the moment and there is no reason blizz couldn't make it better. Except that they may not care, because they make the same money whether you are PVE or PVP.
Or because alot of people like PvP the way it is, even if it has its moments of frustration. I've head alot of ideas from people who want to say they play on a PvP server but want it to be almost PvE safe, and all of them have their own serious drawbacks that would just make the world frustrating in different ways.

So we start flying in guards from the closest towns to protect zones getting ganked. So gankers send a guy or two to a dark corner of the world, gank someone a few times to draw the guards out of a town and camp the town until they return. Rinse and repeat. Two good groups of gankers could effectively keep the guards in the air and end up making less of the world safe.

If we don't pull guards from towns and just have new ones spawn, then the world could easily be overrun with faction guards making it twice as hard for non-gankers to get around.

Neutral police? Great, so you can only kill someone once or twice before police rush in. Sounds like PvE, only instead of flagging yourself when you want, you can only dual the opposite faction once in a while in fear of 70-elite police rushing in to punish you.

Taking away honor points for killing lowbies seems like it might work, except not everyone would care about negative honor. If the real jerky gankers cared about honor then they'd be in the Battlegrounds farming it instead of killing honorless lowbies. Also do lowbies then get to pester high-levels with impunity or does this introduce a new flagging system where you lose your negative honor flag by hitting a high-level? And what's to stop lowbies from walking into an AoE from a high-level by accident or even on purpose and making them lose honor even though they didn't really intend to hit said lowbie?

I think people like to say "QQ, go play PvE" because it really satisfies what you seem to ask for: safety while doing quests and the ability to PvP when you want by flagging yourself or playing Arena/Battlegrounds. Sure it has its drawbacks, but so does any other solution and have loads of different types of servers would just confuse things, and people would just complain about those drawbacks too. Nothing is perfect and it's impossible to make open-PvP polite without ruining open-PvP or introducing a host of new problems. Not that I think that all your ideas are worse than the choices we already have, its just they aren't any better and I don't see the point of changing things if it really won't be an overall improvement. You just can't really stop people from being jerks.

[cyks]

So many of these 'solutions' to stop mass ganking and camping on lower levels would only lead to more problems and bigger issues.

You're a lvl 70 helping out a lvl 35 friend in STV... a group of 40's see you and attack your friend (but smart enough not to touch you). You defend your friend and kill them, but they don't get the hint and return- making your friend's death their goal for the afternoon.

In this (fairly common) situation, what would you recommend Blizzard to do to 'fix' things?

PvP is fine- working as it should. War is harsh... don't like it- join the PvE servers and flag when the mood hits.

[NOYB]

So much discussion, but not much resolution.

If you enjoy PvP, find a battle-buddy. Just like combat, you should never be alone. Quest as a duo, and smash those that would try to get in your way. Even on a server with poor faction balance, a pair of players working as a team is lethal.

If you're a loner and just like to quest in peace. Roll PvE. Save yourself the frustration.

[Tanitha]

I too went through what you went through. at lvl 32 i ganked a player (29) of the opposite faction. didnt camp him, just ganked him for killing my named mob i was waiting for.

Wait ... since when Is ganking killing someone of close to your level? If he was level 26 or lower, I could understand it, but 29? Come-on, he should toughen up a bit.

Katrala, PvP can be frustrating. I also like Sturm's idea of dishonour for killing somebody who is gray to you. JaedxRapture has a thread over here (http://forums.worldofwar.net/showthread.php?t=394205&goto=newpost) where that topic was tossed to and fro between us and he makes some good points against having dishonour. I'd still like it in though!

But, as to server suggestions I'd recommend a RP/PvP server for anyone who wants a nice blend between PvE and PvP. Their populations aren't quite as high as the pure servers and you must (please) be at least a little bit into RP. While the PvP is frenetic, it's also a little bit more sane and mature. That's not to say you won't get your muppets who should have played on a pure PvP server, but there certainly seems to be less of them. And, being transported to a world that is really like Azeroth, with people playing their characters as real people is a real blessing.

Anyway, that might be an interesting inbetween step if you're not quite convinced that PvE is the server type for you. Myself, I couldn't play on something quite that sterile, although I do appreciate that different people have different goals in their game-play. Myself, I like that feeling of fear, of checking around you for what happens. Most of the time I find myself not even looking at the mobs, just using hot keys while scanning the greenery of STV for Alliance. That sense of death walking and stalking is just too much of a rush for me to go without it.

Sure, you'll level slower and you'll get frustrated. But as other posters have mentioned, there are always alts and other, localdefense, ways around it.

[fzyx]

I think people like to say "QQ, go play PvE" because it really satisfies what you seem to ask for: safety while doing quests and the ability to PvP when you want by flagging yourself or playing Arena/Battlegrounds. Sure it has its drawbacks, but so does any other solution and have loads of different types of servers would just confuse things, and people would just complain about those drawbacks too. Nothing is perfect and it's impossible to make open-PvP polite without ruining open-PvP or introducing a host of new problems. Not that I think that all your ideas are worse than the choices we already have, its just they aren't any better and I don't see the point of changing things if it really won't be an overall improvement. You just can't really stop people from being jerks.

I don't think they should curtail ganking, I think they should curtail camping.

And it is possible to stop people from being jerks. Whenever I walk around DC or NYC I'm very aware that I would be dead or wallet-less were it not for the police. But most of the time the police don't intrude on my life if I'm following the rules. I don't see any benefit or sport in a lvl 70 repeatedly killing a lvl 20 whose trying to turn in a quest. Thats like if country A's army stood by country B's subway system and randomly shot people who were trying to go to work. I don't agree that camping is an inherent part of open PVP.

The simplest thing they could do is make camping somebodies corpse against the rules and take punitive action when necessary. The other suggestions are just ways to make the punishment part of the game instead of account suspensions.

[fzyx]

So many of these 'solutions' to stop mass ganking and camping on lower levels would only lead to more problems and bigger issues.

You're a lvl 70 helping out a lvl 35 friend in STV... a group of 40's see you and attack your friend (but smart enough not to touch you). You defend your friend and kill them, but they don't get the hint and return- making your friend's death their goal for the afternoon.

In this (fairly common) situation, what would you recommend Blizzard to do to 'fix' things?

PvP is fine- working as it should. War is harsh... don't like it- join the PvE servers and flag when the mood hits.

This situation wouldn't need any fix from blizzard, it is already self-policing because the lvl 70 is there to keep his friend safe and presumably not dead. EDIT : Though I suppose after the 70 kills the 40's enough times it could be interpreted incorrectly as ganking, and at that point the area is swarmed with elite bruisers to calm things down. At that point the 35 finally gets to run away in one piece, the 40's (being dim-witted) probably try to kill the 70 and in turn get destroyed by the bruisers. After enough times they learn their lesson.

Now take away the lvl 70, and you just have this lvl 35 getting repeatedly killed by a group of 40's with no hope of defending himself. Again, the bruisers swarm and take out the 40's a couple times until they learn their lesson.

This is the situation that is not sport, its not anything like real war (you can't kill somebody twice in real life), and its really not even a game at that point because one side has no chance at all. If the 40's were smart they'd camp once or twice to have their fun and then move on before the bruisers got there. It really isn't any different from getting on the defense channel and calling for help. Except that on a low-pop server with a poor horde:alliance ratio you could still hope for some backup.

[Cychwyn]

I play on both. I expect ganking, camping etc on the PvP servers. It's when I try to step into the shoes of someone who would actually enjoy killing greys, never mind ganging up with three of your mates to repeatedly kill a half-health grey that my mind boggles. Just can't see where the skill, challenge or general fun is in that.

[kcma]

no one is holding a gun to your head to play on pvp. want a solution? too much discussion and no answer?

easy. don't play on pvp. frustrated? don't be, play on pve.

[fzyx]

no one is holding a gun to your head to play on pvp. want a solution? too much discussion and no answer?

easy. don't play on pvp. frustrated? don't be, play on pve.

PVE is not the equivalent of PVP without ?? camping.

I don't see what's wrong with trying to come up with ways to make PVP more sporting.

[Katrala]

no one is holding a gun to your head to play on pvp. want a solution? too much discussion and no answer?

easy. don't play on pvp. frustrated? don't be, play on pve.

Obviously I'm thinking about switching to PvE, since the PvP experience when people are jerks can be extremely frustrating.

I'm sorry (no, not really :smiley: ) if the thread annoys you, but it does help to get some other perspective of people who have went through the same decision, if they regretted it or not, etc. I know that once I switch this character, I can't switch back and will have to re-roll if I want to play on a PvP server again. Having gotten this far, I'm not sure if I want to do that or not.

I did check out the warcraft realm data site (thanks for the link!) - my faction is in the slight minority (45/55), but that's probably not significant enough to make a real difference.

I'm relatively new to the game and haven't been playing for years like some of you - have PvP rules changed over time?

[kcma]

fzyx: yes, there is one way and a perfect solution. pve realm.

katrala: no it doesnt annoy me. i just dont understand why ppl force themselves to play on pvp realm and whine about pvp. "zomg!! pvp on pvp realm?? no wai!!111!!!1!" - aerath

there is nothing wrong with playing on pve. i mean, i love det and he loves pve. nothing wrong with that at all. heck, i play on pve realm sometimes, i dont feel shame or embarassed or anything. pvp rules has changed, but only in minor details. what's AI? it's predictable and can be defeated. where as human players aren't. you might run into cool enemy who help you, or you might run into complete jerks. you know when you hit that bear, he's gonna run to you. you don't know that when you see an enemy. and AI doesn't creep up on you when you've pulled your mob either (well, maybe mor'ladim). some ppl love that interaction some don't (they find it, frustrating). you don't like it? that's fine, no one is trying to convert you to pvp-ism and shoving it down the throat.

so now the qustion is. while us pvp lovers respect your carebeariness and leave your pve realms alone. why can't you carebearies reciporcate the same respect? why is it that some of you insist on staying in our realm, whine, complain, and propose ridicules changes?

i mean, when you goto a casino and sit down at a $50 min black jack table, do you insist on placing $10 bets? no. there are $10 table that will be happy to have you right? :)

[Tanitha]

kcma, We all know how l337 and uber you are and that you have mad skillzzz. Katrala has come here asking opinions from people who have made the shift. There's nothing from her whining about playing on a PvP realm or wanting to change it. Others have dragged the topic a bit off with suggested changes, but that is a tangent.

[kcma]

maybe, but that tangent more than dominate the last 5 pages :) and if you read more than the title of the thread dear Tanitha, you'll notice that the OP's OP IS indeed about whining and complaining about pvp realms. which leaves the only thing in this whole thread not off the tangent the title :p

[Tanitha]

Well darling, I read the title as a question and the rest of the OP as an explanation of the motivation behind that question. Post 16 seemed to clarify that for me.

[kcma]

:D well, i read it the other way on OPs :D i think the content of OP is the message/questiong and titles are often afterthoughts :)

[conor rocks]

PvE doesn't have much of an endgame. Once you have the best gear and level 70 wouldn't you want to have some fun. The only reason people get camped is no one will help them. It's fun to help people in contested/opposite faction from getting ganked. People would rather just spend hours trying to get something with 1 more ap then their gear then spend a little while to save someone an hour of getting ganked constantly.

[fzyx]

fzyx: yes, there is one way and a perfect solution. pve realm.

katrala: no it doesnt annoy me. i just dont understand why ppl force themselves to play on pvp realm and whine about pvp. "zomg!! pvp on pvp realm?? no wai!!111!!!1!" - aerath

there is nothing wrong with playing on pve. i mean, i love det and he loves pve. nothing wrong with that at all. heck, i play on pve realm sometimes, i dont feel shame or embarassed or anything. pvp rules has changed, but only in minor details. what's AI? it's predictable and can be defeated. where as human players aren't. you might run into cool enemy who help you, or you might run into complete jerks. you know when you hit that bear, he's gonna run to you. you don't know that when you see an enemy. and AI doesn't creep up on you when you've pulled your mob either (well, maybe mor'ladim). some ppl love that interaction some don't (they find it, frustrating). you don't like it? that's fine, no one is trying to convert you to pvp-ism and shoving it down the throat.

so now the qustion is. while us pvp lovers respect your carebeariness and leave your pve realms alone. why can't you carebearies reciporcate the same respect? why is it that some of you insist on staying in our realm, whine, complain, and propose ridicules changes?

i mean, when you goto a casino and sit down at a $50 min black jack table, do you insist on placing $10 bets? no. there are $10 table that will be happy to have you right? :)

I don't agree that you have to live complacently with whatever the world (in this case blizzard) serves you. So you like PVP the way it is, good for you. I think it could be better, and I don't consider PVE an option. What do you care?

[earindur]

...

dont mind kcma, hes an elitest pudding bender at the best of times.

[OneMadOgre]

Heh.

I played UO at release and it was because of my miserable experience there that I didn't pick up another MMO until WoW. Those Dread Lord packs where absolute game killers for people like me who only had a little bit of time to play.

[kcma]

I don't agree that you have to live complacently with whatever the world (in this case blizzard) serves you. So you like PVP the way it is, good for you. I think it could be better, and I don't consider PVE an option. What do you care?

pve is not an option? and you don't like to pvp? wow, my favorite ppl to gank <3

[fzyx]

pve is not an option? and you don't like to pvp? wow, my favorite ppl to gank <3

When did I say I don't like to pvp? All I've said is I think the camping situation sucks and should be addressed. Other than that I'm all for world-pvp and ganking. I don't like getting killed by ??'s but I know its part of the fun for them and will be for me. Without that chance the environment would be "sterile" as Tanitha has said. I don't want to have to choose to duel or else I'd just run around goldshire dueling my own faction.

[rgirty]

pve is not an option? and you don't like to pvp? wow, my favorite ppl to gank <3

No surprise some take every opportunity to attempt to display to others how superior they are.

[NOYB]

What KCMA is saying is, PvP servers are fine as they are. What a lot of people want is to tone down PvP so it's more "fair." That's what the battlegrounds are for. (Even though those aren't totally "fair" either.) World PvP on a PvP server is actually completely fair because there are no limitations. There's nothing stopping you from putting together a group of friends and rolling through the quests.

World PvP is darwinism in action.


Picture a group of zebra crossing a river and getting eaten by crocodiles.

Zebra: OMG, crossing this river is totally unfair.
Ranger: We'll build a bridge for you to cross in safety.
Zebra: I should be able to cross the river safely. I like the feeling of the water!
Ranger: But you'll get eaten.
Zebra: I want you to shoot all the crocodiles to make it safe for me.
Ranger: But that's not fair to the crocodiles.
(Another zebra gets eaten)
Zebra: ZOMG, we can't see them. NERF crocodiles!

[Cow Vs The World]

I don't agree that you have to live complacently with whatever the world (in this case blizzard) serves you. So you like PVP the way it is, good for you. I think it could be better, and I don't consider PVE an option. What do you care?

I would imagine most people care because folks like you who want PvE safety on a server that says 'PvP' next to it's name usually take the angle of changing the mechanics of existing PvP servers. Most people on PvP servers like it, believe it or not. Take the angle of "try to get Blizzard to start putting up new PvP-Lite servers" in addition to PvP and PvE servers might not irk people as much. Of course good luck getting all the PvP-whiners to agree on a compromised "solution" to stop PvP while still having PvP. It'll never happen though, because PvE is their solution to people who can't handle PvP.

When did I say I don't like to pvp?
Um, that's all you've done. If I said I love Top Gun but I just didn't like that it was movie about jets, and wished it was a movie about a hilarious cat who gets lost in a big city it really wouldn't make any sense. You keep saying you like PvP servers but you just want to change them so that they are not PvP servers anymore.

[fzyx]

Um, that's all you've done. If I said I love Top Gun but I just didn't like that it was movie about jets, and wished it was a movie about a hilarious cat who gets lost in a big city it really wouldn't make any sense. You keep saying you like PvP servers but you just want to change them so that they are not PvP servers anymore.

In a black-and-white world, yes, thats all I've done. I remember liking Top Gun at the time but wishing the flying scenes were more realistic. I liked the movie, I thought part of it could be better. I like PVP, I don't like camping. Get it? That doesn't mean that I should go watch the smurfs.

Your definition of entertaining PVP and mine are obviously different. You are surely welcome to your opinion, but you can't stop me from thinking you are wrong and expressing my opinion.

[fzyx]

What KCMA is saying is, PvP servers are fine as they are.


Uhhh... thx. What I am saying is that PVP servers are not fine the way they are. I pay the same amount for my account as you I don't see why I can't voice my opinion.

And don't forget, there was a time when minorities couldn't vote. When that changed you can be sure alot of old white rich men were complaining about keeping the status quo. Even though it was clearly broken.

[rgirty]

Uhhh... thx. What I am saying is that PVP servers are not fine the way they are. I pay the same amount for my account as you I don't see why I can't voice my opinion.

And don't forget, there was a time when minorities couldn't vote. When that changed you can be sure alot of old white rich men were complaining about keeping the status quo. Even though it was clearly broken.

PVP/PVE

If you don't like PvP roll PvE

If you don't like PvE roll PvP.

PvP = war

War = Not fair.

There, that sums it up.

[fzyx]

PVP/PVE

If you don't like PvP roll PvE

If you don't like PvE roll PvP.

PvP = war

War = Not fair.

There, that sums it up.

Again, in a black and white world, you are right.

PVE != PVP-Camping

[rgirty]

Again, in a black and white world, you are right.

PVE != PVP-Camping

Yep.

War= taking over and occupying = camping.

PvP isn't killing someone once then letting them go about their merry way.

Its war, war = occupation after conquest = camping your corpse.

Did I miss something?

[fzyx]

Yep.

War= taking over and occupying = camping.

PvP isn't killing someone once then letting them go about their merry way.

Its war, war = occupation after conquest = camping your corpse.

Did I miss something?

Thats how PVP is, my point is I don't think thats all PVP should be. A level 70 camping my level 30 corpse is not war. Its a big tough marine beating up children in a sandbox. And thats not a war I'd be proud to participate in...

[rgirty]

Thats how PVP is, my point is I don't think thats all PVP should be. A level 70 camping my level 30 corpse is not war. Its a big tough marine beating up children in a sandbox.

Kind of like what you see IRL? Innocent people get killed in war, just like your lvl 30.

War=not fair. You can't be "picked on" or "camped" in war you can only defeated and occupied.

If you want controlled PvP join a PvE server and do some bg's then you won't be bothered out in the real world as it is PvE not PvP where its player versus player and not

Player versus players within 5 levels of his own range and only for two deaths then said player must move on and not kill this individual again.

See what I'm gettin at here?

PvP= war, player versus player. It isn't fair, it isn't nice and it isn't meant to be. If you don't like it, go PvE thats why there are two types of servers. Just as there are RP servers and NON-RP servers.

[fzyx]

Kind of like what you see IRL? Innocent people get killed in war, just like your lvl 30.

War=not fair. You can't be "picked on" or "camped" in war you can only defeated and occupied.

If you want controlled PvP join a PvE server and do some bg's then you won't be bothered out in the real world as it is PvE not PvP where its player versus player and not

Player versus players within 5 levels of his own range and only for two deaths then said player must move on and not kill this individual again.

See what I'm gettin at here?

PvP= war, player versus player. It isn't fair, it isn't nice and it isn't meant to be. If you don't like it, go PvE thats why there are two types of servers. Just as there are RP servers and NON-RP servers.

I get what you're saying, I just think you're wrong in stating that the way it is is the way that it should be.

Yes, you feel differently. Great. Go take your level 70 horde to neringway's camp and kill all the level 30 alliance that are trying to turn-in quests for a couple hours. Then get on the realm forum and complain about how there is no fun pvp at level 70 because you killed 30's for hours and no other 70's came to fight you.

Sound like fun to you? For either side?

What I don't get is why all of you care so much. I had an idea for something I think will improve PVP. I posted it in a thread where people were discussing what they think is wrong with PVP. Do I need your permission to disagree with you?

[Foonyak]

fzyx - Your idea to improve PvP is seen as an improvement only to the people that don't play on PvP servers exclusively, or to people that can't or won't admit that PvP servers aren't the right servers for their play style or time allowances.

For the people that do play exclusively on PvP servers, it is seen as a nerf to something that works great for them.

There are already PvP Lite servers; they're labeled PvE. If you want to PvP on a PvE server, you can throw up the flag, queue up for a BG, or join an arena team, but there is no nonconsensual PvP on a PvE server.

The actual PvP servers work just like the name of the game implies. World of War...craft, and even then, it's not like doing PvP with your Hardcore characters from D2, where there is no such thing as a spirit healer or corpse run.

If you don't like your lowbie character being whacked by 70's, Blizzard has a working solution for you. If you don't like the 70's camping your lowbie's corpse, Blizzard has a working solution for you. If you want to PvP at your discretion as opposed to someone else's discretion, Blizzard has a working solution for you.

PvE servers.

You are certainly entitled to have your opinion that PvP servers are broken, and you're also entitled to make suggestions as to how to improve this broken-ness that you perceive, but Blizzard has stated that PvP servers are working as intended.

[rgirty]

I get what you're saying, I just think you're wrong in stating that the way it is is the way that it should be.

Yes, you feel differently. Great. Go take your level 70 horde to neringway's camp and kill all the level 30 alliance that are trying to turn-in quests for a couple hours. Then get on the realm forum and complain about how there is no fun pvp at level 70 because you killed 30's for hours and no other 70's came to fight you.

Sound like fun to you? For either side?

What I don't get is why all of you care so much. I had an idea for something I think will improve PVP. I posted it in a thread where people were discussing what they think is wrong with PVP. Do I need your permission to disagree with you?

Nope you don't need any permission to do anything. Also, I play alliance not horde.. and my char is a holy priest so I don't exactly go around ganking people.

Your on a bit of a high horse here I'm sorry to say and seem to be getting a little upset there is already a solution to the "problem" you have its called PvE server.

Thats what they are there for, people that don't like world PvP like yourself.

PvE allows you to go about your way, BG when you want if you want PvP.

If this bothers you that much you might consider it, it might be good for you.

[Torik]

There are really two types of PvP PvP as Sport and PvP as War.

PvP as Sport is about beating opponent to prove that your are a better player than they are. How good you are is defined by how tough the opponents are you beat. ie mugging a 90 year old granny is not really something one braggs about but beating up 5 Hell's Angels bikers in a fight shows that you are one tough SOB.

PvP as War is all about doing the other guy in before he does you in. You do not care how tough the opponent is as long as you get him first. Success here is defined by achieving objectives. Ideally the less fighting you have to do to win the objective the better.

The problem in WoW is that PvP as War really has no serious objectives to fight for. The best ones so far are the capturable objectives in Outlands like Halaa or the spires in Bone Wastes. They give clear cut objectives with an attractive reward for achieving them in the most effective way.

Also a lot of WoW PvPers like to play PvP as Sport but with PvP as War mentality. This is the source of this entier dispute. They do not seek fair fights but rather just want to kill the other player for no real gain beside some Honor Points and mostly not even that.

[fzyx]

fzyx - Your idea to improve PvP is seen as an improvement only to the people that don't play on PvP servers exclusively, or to people that can't or won't admit that PvP servers aren't the right servers for their play style or time allowances.

For the people that do play exclusively on PvP servers, it is seen as a nerf to something that works great for them.

There are already PvP Lite servers; they're labeled PvE. If you want to PvP on a PvE server, you can throw up the flag, queue up for a BG, or join an arena team, but there is no nonconsentual PvP on a PvE server.

The actual PvP servers work just like the name of the game implies. World of War...craft, and even then, it's not like doing PvP with your Hardcore characters from D2, where there is no such thing as a spirit healer or corpse run.

If you don't like you lowbie character being whacked by 70's, Blizzard has a working solution for you. If you don't like the 70's camping your lowbie's corpse, Blizzard has a working solution for you. If you want to PvP at you discretion as opposed to someone else's discretion, Blizzard has a working solution for you.

PvE servers.

You are certainly entitled to have your opinion that PvP servers are broken, and you're also entitled to make suggestions as to how to improve this broken-ness that you perceive, but Blizzard has stated that PvP servers are working as intended.

Once again... You are right about how things are, I disagree with you on how things -should- be. Just because some people like the PVP servers the way they are doesn't mean they have reached perfection. I'm ok if a couple hardcore PVP'ers feel nerfed because they now can't camp 30's on their 70's. I'm fairly positive that the vast majority of people playing on PVP servers are not "hardcore" and would appreciate some sort of solution to camping. If you took all of them away and put them in PVE, where would that leave the "hardcore" PVP'ers? Who would they gank?

And like I've said at least twice before, PVE!=PVP-Camping.

[rgirty]

Once again... You are right about how things are, I disagree with you on how things -should- be. Just because some people like the PVP servers the way they are doesn't mean they have reached perfection. I'm ok if a couple hardcore PVP'ers feel nerfed because they now can't camp 30's on their 70's. I'm fairly positive that the vast majority of people playing on PVP servers are not "hardcore" and would appreciate some sort of solution to camping. If you took all of them away and put them in PVE, where would that leave the "hardcore" PVP'ers? Who would they gank?

And like I've said at least twice before, PVE!=PVP-Camping.

Yes, like i've said before thats how it is meant to be.

If you don't like getting ganked by people higher than you, take the option that blizzard has provided to you PvE server.

Why is that so hard?

[fzyx]

Nope you don't need any permission to do anything. Also, I play alliance not horde.. and my char is a holy priest so I don't exactly go around ganking people.

Your on a bit of a high horse here I'm sorry to say and seem to be getting a little upset there is already a solution to the "problem" you have its called PvE server.

Thats what they are there for, people that don't like world PvP like yourself.

PvE allows you to go about your way, BG when you want if you want PvP.

If this bothers you that much you might consider it, it might be good for you.

PVE != PVP-Camping. I like world pvp, I just don't like everything about it and think it could be better.

I didn't mean to claim that you are horde or that you gank people, I meant that as an example of a situation that is not sporting, gaming, or fun for anybody. Sorry if it looked like I was implying otherwise.

[rgirty]

PVE != PVP-Camping. I like world pvp, I just don't like everything about it and think it could be better.

I didn't mean to claim that you are horde or that you gank people, I meant that as an example of a situation that is not sporting, gaming, or fun for anybody. Sorry if it looked like I was implying otherwise.

You like world pvp, but you don't want someone higher level than you killing you?

You like world pvp, but you don't want someone to kill you more than x amount of times?

Sounds like you want the entire world to be a controlled bg?

Bg has brackets, a time limit or goals that prevent you from needing to kill the same person x amount of times and with the x-server bg's implemented you won't even face the same people.

Are you really meaning you like world pvp when it is a fair fight, or in your favor so you might win?

pvp=war and nothing is fair yes it is camping and ganking thus war.

[fzyx]

Yes, like i've said before thats how it is meant to be.

If you don't like getting ganked by people higher than you, take the option that blizzard has provided to you PvE server.

Why is that so hard?

Because I don't want to remove the chance of getting ganked. The run through wetlands and arathi would not be nearly as exciting on a PVE server. Southshore would be just another town, and STV would be a walk in the park without PVP. I want to lower the amount of camping (griefing in my opinion) that occurs. That is not the same thing as playing on a PVE server.

I'm not arguing that it is not the way it is meant to be, I'm arguing that I don't think the way it is meant to be is the best way that it could be. If you don't agree, thats fine with me.

[Foonyak]

Blizzard has stated that PvP servers are working as intended.

Did you miss this part of the post? Why are you so intent on changing something that the owners of WoW have stated that they aren't going to be changing?

where would that leave the "hardcore" PVP'ers? Who would they gank?

They would take their ~$15 a month and invest it into another MMO, which is also something that Blizzard doesn't want happening.

And it's not just the hardcore that like it the way it is. I'm playing less than five hours a week, and I like it just fine. All of my toons are on a PvP server. I don't want to pull someone else's name into this but Tanitha is another person who is a very casual player, and she's already stated in this thread that she "could never play in such a sterile environment".

[fzyx]

Did you miss this part of the post? Why are you so intent on changing something that the owners of WoW have stated that they aren't going to be changing?



They would take their ~$15 a month and invest it into another MMO, which is also something that Blizzard has no intention of changing.

And it's not just the hardcore that like it the way it is. I'm playing less than five hours a week, and I like it just fine. All of my toons are on a PvP server. I don't want to pull someone else's name into this but Tanitha is another person who is a very casual player, and she's already stated in this thread that she "could never play in such a sterile environment".

Umm... yeah, thats what I said earlier as well. Thats my point, PVE is not a substitute for PVP.

And about suggesting a change that could make the game better in my opinion, I'd also like to suggest to Mazda that they should put out a turbocharged rx-8. Bring back the rx-7 the way it used to be. I'd like to suggest that Land Rover bring back the defender 90 in America and that Ford get rid of the Expedition and bring back the old Bronco. I think McDonald's should bring back the old french fries, and Taco Bell should still have the Wild sauce. I think the middle-class should be taxed less, small business should be encouraged, farmers should not be bailed out, and people who live in the middle of nowhere should pay higher taxes to receive infrastructure improvements.

I think Blizzard should put some sort of mechanism in place to discourage repeated camping. Is that ok with you? Its not like you're arguing with the CEO of blizzard, nothing I say makes a ... bit of difference, why are all of you so up in arms because I suggested that PVP could be better?

[sohcan]

I think Blizzard should put some sort of mechanism in place to discourage repeated camping. Is that ok with you? Its not like you're arguing with the CEO of blizzard, nothing I say makes a ... bit of difference, why are all of you so up in arms because I suggested that PVP could be better?

On the flipside of the coin camping can be a very useful tool. It sends across a strong message that "You are in my area and you are going to have a problem if you stay. And that problem will be me camping your arse."

;)

[fzyx]

On the flipside of the coin camping can be a very useful tool. It sends across a strong message that "You are in my area and you are going to have a problem if you stay. And that problem will be me camping your arse."

;)

Sure :) I was in refuge pointe once when it was attacked by a lvl 70 horde rogue. He was taking on all of the guards and about 15 lvl 20-30s were trying to help, he killed everybody until a lvl 70 alliance hunter showed up and beat him down. We all camped him after that until he corpse hopped out of refuge pointe. After that we let him run off... That was a fun moment that couldn't happen in PVE. We wouldn't all have been hiding out there in the first place.

[Foonyak]

why are all of you so up in arms because I suggested that PVP could be better?

I'm not. I calmly suggested to you that Blizzard has no intention of changing the way PvP works on PvP servers.

To reverse your question, and repeat mine that you never answered, why are you so up in arms to change something that is working exactly the way it's creators intended it to work?

Honestly, if you think WoW's PvP servers are too tough when working as intended, and the PvE servers aren't tough enough when working as intended, WoW might not be the right MMO for you.

EDIT:
We all camped him
Hi pot, meet kettle.

[srobin]

PvP in the World of Warcraft is all about the gank. Pure and simple. Seen it both ways. My guild was originally both in SWG and WoW, over time SWG got worse and worse, so we all ended up in WoW on a PvP. I'd go PvE in a second if not for the group of guys and gals I've been MMO'ing with for over 2 years now.

[fzyx]

I'm not. I calmly suggested to you that Blizzard has no intention of changing the way PvP works on PvP servers.

To reverse your question, and repeat mine that you never answered, why are you so up in arms to change something that is working exactly the way it's creators intended it to work? Why are you so anxious to change an aspect of a game that so many others enjoy?

Because I think there are problems in the game that could be addressed with simple changes that should not drastically reduce the fun for a "hardcore" pvp'er. If the ability to camp people 40 levels beneath you until they throw up their hands in despair and switch to a sterile PVE server is an overwhelming part of the game for a hardcore PVP'er (I don't think it is), then I propose that PVP is severely lacking. There should be more to it than camping. And I actually think there is already much more to PVP than camping which is why I'm on a PVP server.

[fzyx]

I'm not. I calmly suggested to you that Blizzard has no intention of changing the way PvP works on PvP servers.

To reverse your question, and repeat mine that you never answered, why are you so up in arms to change something that is working exactly the way it's creators intended it to work?

Honestly, if you think WoW's PvP servers are too tough when working as intended, and the PvE servers aren't tough enough when working as intended, WoW might not be the right MMO for you.

EDIT:

Hi pot, meet kettle.

Way to take a quote out of context. He invaded our town, he got camped until he left our town. What were we supposed to do, leave him alone in our town while he healed up and slaughtered us again?

[rgirty]

Because I think there are problems in the game that could be addressed with simple changes that should not drastically reduce the fun for a "hardcore" pvp'er. If the ability to camp people 40 levels beneath you until they throw up their hands in despair and switch to a sterile PVE server is an overwhelming part of the game for a hardcore PVP'er (I don't think it is), then I propose that PVP is severely lacking. There should be more to it than camping. And I actually think there is already much more to PVP than camping which is why I'm on a PVP server.

Yes, picking on people lower level than you is what gankers like. They want to PWN and feel superior. I hope you are not just catching on to this.

Why do you think Tarren mill is like it is?

Why do you think STV is like it is?

Why do you think RH cem is the way it is?

Tanaris?

Higher level players love to gank lower levels, just like a bully likes to give a wedgie to the class nerd. The numerous twink threads and such should give you a clear indication of the same. Why would anyone want to build a 19 twink other than have a real advantage over other players. If they wanted competition they would be doing arena combat, they don't they want to dominate.

If you don't like being camped roll PvE

If you don't like being ganked roll PvE

Like it or not, thats how it is and thats how blizz wants it. All of that is within the rules if they didn't want it this way we would have a rule making it an offense.

I understand you have a problem with it, however read my above statement.

[fzyx]

Yes, picking on people lower level than you is what gankers like. They want to PWN and feel superior. I hope you are not just catching on to this.

Why do you think Tarren mill is like it is?

Why do you think STV is like it is?

Why do you think RH cem is the way it is?

Tanaris?

Higher level players love to gank lower levels, just like a bully likes to give a wedgie to the class nerd. The numerous twink threads and such should give you a clear indication of the same. Why would anyone want to build a 19 twink other than have a real advantage over other players. If they wanted competition they would be doing arena combat, they don't they want to dominate.

If you don't like being camped roll PvE

If you don't like being ganked roll PvE

Like it or not, thats how it is and thats how blizz wants it. All of that is within the rules if they didn't want it this way we would have a rule making it an offense.

I understand you have a problem with it, however read my above statement.

Yeah. Thanks. If I ever give up on PVP I will do just that. For now I am just giving a suggestion for what I think could make PVP better (from my perspective as an alliance mage on a horde dominated server). If you don't like it or agree with it, thats fine with me.

[Foonyak]

What were we supposed to do, leave him alone in our town while he healed up and slaughtered us again?

If one does not want to appear a hypocrit, one should not make contradictory posts.

With the opposition you've shown towards others camping you, I'd say either sit there and wait for the inevitable or go somewhere else. You're the one who's shown a marked opposition to corpse camping, not me.

Since you've shown no signs of accepting what Blizzard has said about the way PvP servers function, and you've shown no signs of suggesting this on the official forums, I see no point in debating this anymore with you.

[rgirty]

I wish there was some type of limit on PvP - such as a certain number of times that someone can be killed by a certain player in a given amount of time. For example, you can only be killed by the same person 3 or 4 times within a 20 or 30 minute period. It would allow you to still have that interaction, but at least allow an out every once in a while if you've reached your kill limit. Not giving honor doesn't work - the people who are repeatedly ganking lower level players aren't doing it for honor, obviously.

If this is your suggestion your asking for the server to be turned into a pve server under certain circumstances.

I'm glad that it does not bother you taht I don't like it or agree with it.

PvP servers would not be made better if lowbies were made immune to being ganked.

PvP servers would not be better if players could only kill each other xx amount of times within a certain time frame.

If you want to play your lowbie unhindered, PvE servers are there for just that reason.

[fzyx]

If one does not want to appear a hypocrit, one should not make contradictory posts.

With the opposition you've shown towards others camping you, I'd say either sit there and wait for the inevitable or go somewhere else. You're the one who's shown a marked opposition to corpse camping, not me.

Since you've shown no signs of accepting what Blizzard has said about the way PvP servers function, and you've shown no signs of suggesting this on the official forums, I see no point in debating this anymore with you.

I've stated that my opposition is to people camping in places like neringway's camp for the sole purpose of stopping people from questing and giving them grief. If I'm stupid enough to invade tauren mill then by all means camp me until I leave. There's a difference.

[rgirty]

I've stated that my opposition is to people camping in places like neringway's camp for the sole purpose of stopping people from questing and giving them grief. If I'm stupid enough to invade tauren mill then by all means camp me until I leave. There's a difference.

People have been ganking people during escort quests for years.

They will continue for years to come.

PvP = WAR

World of WARcraft.

If you don't want WAR roll PvE. There you don't have to put up with all this "stupid" warlike behavior and can go about your merry way.

Last saturday night 30 horde camped the auchindon meeting stone. A few spread out to each zone entrance as well.

Guess what? Few if any alliance ran any of the zones that night. War = slowing/stopping the other factions progression as well.

Your suggestion reminds me of someone eating chocolate ice cream wishing it was vanilla. Someone would suggest the individual buy vanilla, but the person eats chocolate keeps complaining and suggesting how it would be better if it was more vanilla in flavor.

[fzyx]

If this is your suggestion your asking for the server to be turned into a pve server under certain circumstances.

I'm glad that it does not bother you taht I don't like it or agree with it.

PvP servers would not be made better if lowbies were made immune to being ganked.

PvP servers would not be better if players could only kill each other xx amount of times within a certain time frame.

If you want to play your lowbie unhindered, PvE servers are there for just that reason.

This is the suggestion that I prefer "
One idea I read somewhere was that supporting NPC troops should fly into heavily ganked areas to protect their faction. So if 10 high-level horde are camping neringway's camp in STV and ganking low-levels trying to quest, troops would come running/flying in from other zones to settle things down. This would give 10-20 minutes of PVP "fun" and then force the campers to either leave before support shows up or get their butts kicked. It would also have the interesting side-effect that now darkshire and lakeshire are unprotected. Or maybe they should be a neutral policing faction to refresh stale ganking/camping situations."

And yes, I suppose I am suggesting that on a PVP server, in certain circumstances, lower-levels should have some bit of recourse that allows them to continue playing the game. This is not war, this is not even life, a game should have some sort of sport to it.

[rgirty]

This is the suggestion that I prefer "
One idea I read somewhere was that supporting NPC troops should fly into heavily ganked areas to protect their faction. So if 10 high-level horde are camping neringway's camp in STV and ganking low-levels trying to quest, troops would come running/flying in from other zones to settle things down. This would give 10-20 minutes of PVP "fun" and then force the campers to either leave before support shows up or get their butts kicked. It would also have the interesting side-effect that now darkshire and lakeshire are unprotected. Or maybe they should be a neutral policing faction to refresh stale ganking/camping situations."

And yes, I suppose I am suggesting that on a PVP server, in certain circumstances, lower-levels should have some bit of recourse that allows them to continue playing the game. This is not war, this is not even life, a game should have some sort of sport to it.

Low levels do have a bit of recourse, unless you flag yourself for PvP all the lowbie zones are non contested.

You want every area to be like a neutral goblin area where the guards protect those less fortunate?

Are you really suggesting that blizzard install a "police" set of guards that bring down the thunder on nasty gankers scurrying them on their way with their tail between their legs?

"This is not war"

Perhaps you missed the last word in the title. WARCRAFT :D

Thats a good one!

[fzyx]

Low levels do have a bit of recourse, unless you flag yourself for PvP all the lowbie zones are non contested.

You want every area to be like a neutral goblin area where the guards protect those less fortunate?

Are you really suggesting that blizzard install a "police" set of guards that bring down the thunder on nasty gankers scurrying them on their way with their tail between their legs?

"This is not war"

Perhaps you missed the last word in the title. WARCRAFT :D

Thats a good one!

Its a game called world of warcraft. This is not war. Perhaps you have the two confused?

I'm not suggesting they are there all the time and everywhere, I'm suggesting that after a period of time bruisers (or alliance/horde guards) would come running to calm things down. For what its worth, I imagine this is what would happen in a real war. One squadron is pinned down somewhere, they call in backup, 20 minutes later jets are flying over head. It just so happens, on my server, there aren't many high level alliance, which is why I think it would be cool if you could essentially call in NPC support. Its part of the game, the campers could still choose to fight the support should they choose, but it gives the lowbies a fighting chance.

But I digress, if you don't agree with the premise for the discussion I don't understand why you're debating the merits of the idea.

[rgirty]

Its a game called world of warcraft. This is not war. Perhaps you have the two confused?

I'm not suggesting they are there all the time and everywhere, I'm suggesting that after a period of time bruisers (or alliance/horde guards) would come running to calm things down. For what its worth, I imagine this is what would happen in a real war. One squadron is pinned down somewhere, they call in backup, 20 minutes later jets are flying over head. It just so happens, on my server, there aren't many high level alliance, which is why I think it would be cool if you could essentially call in NPC support. Its part of the game, the campers could still choose to fight the support should they choose, but it gives the lowbies a fighting chance.

But I digress, if you don't agree with the premise for the discussion I don't understand why you're debating the merits of the idea.


I don't either really, i'm /threadquitting now as I have suggested the real fix for your issue. PvE.

"calling in" npc guards when your lowbie is being threatened is a good one. That'll keep a smile on my face all weekend long.

[fzyx]

I don't either really, i'm /threadquitting now as I have suggested the real fix for your issue. PvE.

"calling in" npc guards when your lowbie is being threatened is a good one. That'll keep a smile on my face all weekend long.

Thanks for the suggestion. You've been very helpful here. Buh-bye!

[Tanitha]

I've stated that my opposition is to people camping in places like neringway's camp for the sole purpose of stopping people from questing and giving them grief.

And? You're not supposed to be safe when questing. There are hostile animals and beasts that can kill you - Night Elves, Gnomes and even Humans. Look, I dislike being one shotted by a level 70 as much as the next person. Especially when they keep on doing it.

A few nights ago, a Night Elf Rogue was one shotting me whenever I got into Booty Bay to use the Auction House. As soon as the guards started whaling on her, she's kill one or two and Vanish. I'd do a corpse run, and come out to find her "gone". Resurrect. Post an Auction. Die. That carried on until I managed to post all my auctions, turn in my quests and fly out of there.

What was the answer? And there are answers to this problem.

1. Play an Alt.
2. Call help in on Local Defense
3. Log out and go do something else for a bit

I called in help, nobody answered. Finished what I had to do and got out of there, then went and played an alt as I didn't have enough time left to get anything decent done with Tasharin.

Much as a I dislike it, that's the name of the game. I do think additions to the game mechanic can work, but I would not want to see prohibitions placed on things. There are two ideas that I have really, really liked so far:

1. The bounty tool where you can post a bounty on a player who has camped you. There is a suggestion forum thread for it here (http://forums.worldofwar.net/showthread.php?t=388825&goto=newpost).

2. The other one is an honor penalty for killing grays. But this has a lot (And I really mean a lot) of issues for something that already has other ways around it.

And yeah, Foonyak, I'd play on a PvP server no matter what. I simply cannot do PvE.

[fzyx]

And? You're not supposed to be safe when questing. There are hostile animals and beasts that can kill you - Night Elves, Gnomes and even Humans. Look, I dislike being one shotted by a level 70 as much as the next person. Especially when they keep on doing it.

A few nights ago, a Night Elf Rogue was one shotting me whenever I got into Booty Bay to use the Auction House. As soon as the guards started whaling on her, she's kill one or two and Vanish. I'd do a corpse run, and come out to find her "gone". Resurrect. Post an Auction. Die. That carried on until I managed to post all my auctions, turn in my quests and fly out of there.

What was the answer? And there are answers to this problem.

1. Play an Alt.
2. Call help in on Local Defense
3. Log out and go do something else for a bit

I called in help, nobody answered. Finished what I had to do and got out of there, then went and played an alt as I didn't have enough time left to get anything decent done with Tasharin.

Much as a I dislike it, that's the name of the game. I do think additions to the game mechanic can work, but I would not want to see prohibitions placed on things. There are two ideas that I have really, really liked so far:

1. The bounty tool where you can post a bounty on a player who has camped you. There is a suggestion forum thread for it here (http://forums.worldofwar.net/showthread.php?t=388825&goto=newpost).

2. The other one is an honor penalty for killing grays. But this has a lot (And I really mean a lot) of issues for something that already has other ways around it.

And yeah, Foonyak, I'd play on a PvP server no matter what. I simply cannot do PvE.

I agree with all of that. I guess I simply don't like the idea of some jerk causing me to literally be unable to play the game. Logging into an alt does let you keep playing, but essentially the mechanics of the game allowed somebody else to kick you off by harassing you until you were unable to get anything out of the game. PVE would solve the problem, but at what expense?

[NOYB]

The thing to keep in mind is that jerk probably had the very same thing done to him/her. It's part of the circle of ganking that is - PvP. If you don't like the idea of ganking; then, PvP servers really aren't your thing. I know that comes across harsh, but it's true. Check cordiality at the door when you log onto a PvP realm. You can be a good sport if you wish, but don't think that your idea of sportsmanship is in any way shared by anyone else on that realm.

[fzyx]

The thing to keep in mind is that jerk probably had the very same thing done to him/her. It's part of the circle of ganking that is - PvP. If you don't like the idea of ganking; then, PvP servers really aren't your thing. I know that comes across harsh, but it's true. Check cordiality at the door when you log onto a PvP realm. You can be a good sport if you wish, but don't think that your idea of sportsmanship is in any way shared by anyone else on that realm.

Like any other violent circle, who is benefiting here? Wouldn't everybody be better off with more interesting/sporting pvp?

[lambonywow]

lllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[Torik]

People have been ganking people during escort quests for years.

They will continue for years to come.

PvP = WAR

World of WARcraft.

If you don't want WAR roll PvE. There you don't have to put up with all this "stupid" warlike behavior and can go about your merry way.

Last saturday night 30 horde camped the auchindon meeting stone. A few spread out to each zone entrance as well.

Guess what? Few if any alliance ran any of the zones that night. War = slowing/stopping the other factions progression as well.

Your suggestion reminds me of someone eating chocolate ice cream wishing it was vanilla. Someone would suggest the individual buy vanilla, but the person eats chocolate keeps complaining and suggesting how it would be better if it was more vanilla in flavor.

I am a realist and accepted the fact that this is the way Blizzard wants their PvP servers to work. Therefore I rolled on a PvE server and only do PvP in Battlegrounds.

The reason I stayed away from PvP servers in WoW is because world PvP in WoW just has no real purpose. I gank you, you rez up, gank another player, that player rezzes, etc... Nothing very significant is achieved in-game and I simply disrupted another player's progress for no good reason which makes me a jerk.

If world PvP in WoW actually accomplished something tangible I would be willing to participate in it. I used to play EVE Online and in that game PvP was actually a means to an end rather than a pointless end unto itself.

[Tanitha]

The reason I stayed away from PvP servers in WoW is because world PvP in WoW just has no real purpose. I gank you, you rez up, gank another player, that player rezzes, etc... Nothing very significant is achieved in-game and I simply disrupted another player's progress for no good reason which makes me a jerk.

Why would that make you a jerk? The other player also rolled on a PvP server for the purpose of engaging in world PvP. If they did not want that opportunity they would have rolled PvE. So no, playing on a server and accepting the ruleset of that server does not make you a jerk.

It's when you start camping the lowbies that you become a jerk :wink:

[kcma]

Once again... You are right about how things are, I disagree with you on how things -should- be. Just because some people like the PVP servers the way they are doesn't mean they have reached perfection. I'm ok if a couple hardcore PVP'ers feel nerfed because they now can't camp 30's on their 70's. I'm fairly positive that the vast majority of people playing on PVP servers are not "hardcore" and would appreciate some sort of solution to camping. If you took all of them away and put them in PVE, where would that leave the "hardcore" PVP'ers? Who would they gank?

And like I've said at least twice before, PVE!=PVP-Camping.

you hate world pvp, just admit it. you're entitled to your opnions and you're not wrong.

this all reminds me of ppl saying, "i'm not racist, i just don't like ppl who came from ____."

denial :)

***

and guess what, feel free to stay in pvp realm and continue playing. there are no players i enjoy ganking, camping, griefing than players like yourself who never belonged in pvp realm in the first place but insist on staying :) we need more players like yourself where i play <3

I agree with all of that. I guess I simply don't like the idea of some jerk causing me to literally be unable to play the game. Logging into an alt does let you keep playing, but essentially the mechanics of the game allowed somebody else to kick you off by harassing you until you were unable to get anything out of the game. PVE would solve the problem, but at what expense?

some jerk causing me unable to play my game is exactly the reason i roll in pvp realms. if i have to kill one more murlock or one more gnoll my brain might bleed, please, some one lvl ??? come gank and camp me and wake me up!!

pve will solve your problem, and at practically no expense at all. just hang outside of IF/Org and duel, do some BG and arena... or run around with your pvp flag on. you're not missing out on anything AT all. since you don't wnat ppl lvl ??? attacking you, and you don't want to be kill more than 2x. you are a true pve carebear, learn to live with that and accept that. I'm a jerky griefer and i'm damn proud. label me anything you want, at least i'm honest with myself with who i am. stop trying to deceive everyone else, we all know you don't like pvp... and definitely stop deceiving yourself.

[fzyx]

you hate world pvp, just admit it. you're entitled to your opnions and you're not wrong.

this all reminds me of ppl saying, "i'm not racist, i just don't like ppl who came from ____."

denial :)

***

and guess what, feel free to stay in pvp realm and continue playing. there are no players i enjoy ganking, camping, griefing than players like yourself who never belonged in pvp realm in the first place but insist on staying :) we need more players like yourself where i play <3



some jerk causing me unable to play my game is exactly the reason i roll in pvp realms. if i have to kill one more murlock or one more gnoll my brain might bleed, please, some one lvl ??? come gank and camp me and wake me up!!

pve will solve your problem, and at practically no expense at all. just hang outside of IF/Org and duel, do some BG and arena... or run around with your pvp flag on. you're not missing out on anything AT all. since you don't wnat ppl lvl ??? attacking you, and you don't want to be kill more than 2x. you are a true pve carebear, learn to live with that and accept that. I'm a jerky griefer and i'm damn proud. label me anything you want, at least i'm honest with myself with who i am. stop trying to deceive everyone else, we all know you don't like pvp... and definitely stop deceiving yourself.

No, PVE is not the solution, but thanks for your 2cents.

[Katrala]

I do find it odd that some people seem to think that PvP servers are perfect in every aspect.

If PvP has already changed over time in some ways - what is wrong with it changing some more? Not making chocolate into vanilla, but adding or taking away a few current ingredients to make your current concoction all that much better.

The bounty idea is pretty nice. If I had an option to place a bounty on someone who repeatedly ganked me, I'd definitely go for that.

I have found that when someone 10+ levels above me starts to kill me, not fighting back seems to make them do it less. Maybe they think I'm boring - I'm not sure - but it does seem to be working a little bit.

[cyradis2003]

Bounties might be fun but that can be abused too.

Hmmm ... I have 8,000 gold, I think I will put a couple 100g bounties on the main healer from that stupid guild that ganked me last night. Lets see how he likes being hunted and killed 20-30 times. Or "that stupid guild that just passed us in pve progression"


The main thing people are arguing about is that they like the way PVP is. Blizzard likes the way PvP is. All this fussing about making it suit your personal and specific needs thereby changing a game for 8 million people because you don't like being camped is a bit selfish seeming.

And I like chocolate ice cream as it is. If you don't like it make your own flavor but don't arbitrarily decide to take away my chocolate because you think you know what is best for me.

[fzyx]

Bounties might be fun but that can be abused too.

Hmmm ... I have 8,000 gold, I think I will put a couple 100g bounties on the main healer from that stupid guild that ganked me last night. Lets see how he likes being hunted and killed 20-30 times. Or "that stupid guild that just passed us in pve progression"


The main thing people are arguing about is that they like the way PVP is. Blizzard likes the way PvP is. All this fussing about making it suit your personal and specific needs thereby changing a game for 8 million people because you don't like being camped is a bit selfish seeming.

And I like chocolate ice cream as it is. If you don't like it make your own flavor but don't arbitrarily decide to take away my chocolate because you think you know what is best for me.

I understand what you're saying and that certain people think WoW has achieved absolute perfection as an MMORPG. But just as you have a right to think pvp is everything it could be, other people have the right to think it could be better. We both play the same game, and pay the same amount of money to play the game, its pointless to try to invalidate my opinion.

Yeah, sometimes I just hit /sleep and wait a while before running back.

[Summër]

My 35 rogue camped a 33 hunter. Am I a bad person? :P

I personally like world PvP a lot. I can't level very fast, but it's still fun when it's fair. When it's unfair, I'll just run away and be alright. When you get to 70 on a PvE server, you'll be bored out of your mind. It's just not the same without World PvP.

[Katrala]

One of my main reasons for wanting to stay PvP and not switch is helping out other Alliance that are being camped, etc.

Although I didn't often have people help me out (when asking), I do keep an eye out for Alliance being ganked anywhere around me and try to go help out.

This far in the game, I've never been one to start a fight. I've only fought in self-defense and in defense of others. If I have a lower guild member that is trying to get a quest done and is being ganked, if I kill them, I will stay nearby in case they come back - but not to kill them again. I only kill
them again if they attempt to fight, but that's just me, personally.

If I'm helping out someone in a lower area, I do sometimes find it fun to see a low horde player and run towards them, just to watch them run away. I have no intention of ganking them, but it is fun to watch them rush off. :grin:

The game doesn't end as soon as you reach lvl 70, so even on a PvE server, I don't see how you'd be bored.

[kcma]

katrala: all changes are extremely minor, for example, you cannot gank ppl from rooftop where guards can't reach you. they're simply things considere exploit by bliz. otherwise the core of pvp mechanic has not changed.

fzyx: dood, you're like the crack addict who says stop smoking crack is NOT an answer. whatever. everything you do want to do is accessible to you on pve realm. what is it that you want you can't have on pve? enlighten me please. it just seem like such a perfect fit. maybe i'm wrong show me a couple things that you just must have that you must stay on pvp realm for.

and to help out the carebears, there IS one mechanic in place to drive away the ganker for a bit. if you kill a ganker 2x or 3x, dont remember the detail, they have to stay away for x amount of time. so it's up to you to figure out how to kill them. use guards, use other players, etc.

[fzyx]

fzyx: dood, you're like the crack addict who says stop smoking crack is NOT an answer. whatever. everything you do want to do is accessible to you on pve realm. what is it that you want you can't have on pve? enlighten me please. it just seem like such a perfect fit. maybe i'm wrong show me a couple things that you just must have that you must stay on pvp realm for.

and to help out the carebears, there IS one mechanic in place to drive away the ganker for a bit. if you kill a ganker 2x or 3x, dont remember the detail, they have to stay away for x amount of time. so it's up to you to figure out how to kill them. use guards, use other players, etc.

Like the OP said, I enjoy helping out lowbies when I can. I enjoy PVP when it is a fair fight. And I enjoy the atmosphere created by knowing around the corner I could run into a ??. It actually gets my heart pumping which is something that wouldn't happen if I could be in safe mode. I even think its cool to be in southshore when horde is raiding and trying to hide in a corner of the inn but knowing the ?? rogue is out there looking for me. I only don't enjoy it when the ?? rogue slaughters everybody in the town, and then stays around for 2 hours killing people and npc's as they respawn.

Plus, from what I've heard, PVE can be just as annoying. As a mage I frequently cast AOE spells so it would be easy for somebody who wanted to mess with me to just follow me around with their flag on to force me into PVP mode. I also hear ??'s still kill everybody in southshore and then stick around just to make it impossible to do anything in the town. So even if it wasn't for the above reasons, I don't believe PVE would solve the problem.

And finally, when i do make it to 70 I'll feel alot more accomplishment knowing I went through the hell that is PVP. I'd feel hollow getting there in a PVE environment.

Putting in a control mechanism to stop repeated camping would not stop PVP from being a war zone, and it wouldn't even mean I would get ganked less.

[Foonyak]

It's not that we're trying to invalidate your opinion. Blizzard has already invalidated it. You're still entitled to have the opinion that PvP on PvP servers is broken, just as it's my opinion that McDonald's would be far more awesome if they would use ingredients of a higher quality. Those higher quality ingredients would cut into their profit margins though, so they're not changing ingredients, invalidating my opinion.

It seems to me that if you're unhappy with the unchanging mechanics of the PvP realms, and the PvE realms aren't providing you with the challenge you want, you should look into a different game. Something like LotRO, that is not so focused on PvP, or if PvP is your thing, save your WoW subscription money for Warhammer Online, that will be heavily-PvP oriented.

[NOYB]

Just so you know: Exploiting AoE to gank players on PvE servers is against the rules; therefore, reportable.

[fzyx]

It's not that we're trying to invalidate your opinion. Blizzard has already invalidated it. You're still entitled to have the opinion that PvP on PvP servers is broken, just as it's my opinion that McDonald's would be far more awesome if they would use ingredients of a higher quality. Those higher quality ingredients would cut into their profit margins though, so they're not changing ingredients, invalidating my opinion.

It seems to me that if you're unhappy with the unchanging mechanics of the PvP realms, and the PvE realms aren't providing you with the challenge you want, you should look into a different game. Something like LotRO, that is not so focused on PvP, or if PvP is your thing, save your WoW subscription money for Warhammer Online, that will be heavily-PvP oriented.

Once again, thanks for your opinion. I didn't ask for it though and I'm not sure why you keep giving it to me.

Like somebody else said, the mechanics of PVP have changed in the past, and honestly, none of us have any clue what Blizzard is going to do next. For all you know there is a marketing person out there with alot of clout saying that they are having a hard time because there is a growing opinion that PVP in the game is less than sporting. I'm not saying I know that, but things change, and if I had a say in it I'd point out to them that PVP could be better.

Luckily for you, I don't have a say in it. Luckily for me, neither do you.

[fzyx]

Just so you know: Exploiting AoE to gank players on PvE servers is against the rules; therefore, reportable.

Interesting, is there a mechanism to stop lvl 70's from camping the npc's in southshore? It still doesn't solve my problem though because I don't mind being ganked. Once, twice, maybe three times, ok that was fun, you've proved your point, now move on and gank somebody else.

[dagee]

You have to realize though, that a lot depends on your server (or at least I think it does). I am on Kelecgos horde side. And while I do get ganked from time to time by lvl 70 alliance especially near TM and STV I rarely getted camped. In fact, know on wood, this newest character that I been working on, lvl 47, has never been camped. Ganked, yes, but camped no. So everyones experience is different. I am sure my opinion of pvp servers would be much different if everytime I stepped into a contested zone I got corpse camped the entire time.

[fzyx]

You have to realize though, that a lot depends on your server (or at least I think it does). I am on Kelecgos horde side. And while I do get ganked from time to time by lvl 70 alliance especially near TM and STV I rarely getted camped. In fact, know on wood, this newest character that I been working on, lvl 47, has never been camped. Ganked, yes, but camped no. So everyones experience is different. I am sure my opinion of pvp servers would be much different if everytime I stepped into a contested zone I got corpse camped the entire time.

Good point. If I do give up on PVP on my server I'm first going to look into another PVP with more high level alliance so I'll at least have more support.

Does anybody know the site that has realm stats?

[kcma]

so back to my point, you only want to pvp when you're ready to pvp the way you want to pvp. that is NOT pvp :) you enjoy a fair fight? go outside IF/org and /duel ppl your lvl and everyone goes home happy <3

[fzyx]

so back to my point, you only want to pvp when you're ready to pvp the way you want to pvp. that is NOT pvp :) you enjoy a fair fight? go outside IF/org and /duel ppl your lvl and everyone goes home happy <3

Not really, but you are clearly not trying to understand the other side of the argument so lets just leave it at that. As I told the other guy, I don't understand why you keep giving me your opinion when I haven't asked for it. Oh wait a minute, you know, this feels an awful lot like being camped... You've made your point, I disagree, move on.

[kcma]

Not really, but you are clearly not trying to understand the other side of the argument so lets just leave it at that. As I told the other guy, I don't understand why you keep giving me your opinion when I haven't asked for it. Oh wait a minute, you know, this feels an awful lot like being camped... You've made your point, I disagree, move on.

and you know exactly what the best part of camping you is ;)

and clearly, you are wrong about yourself. you don't like pvp.

this all reminds me of having conversations with catholic friends and having to listen to them talk about why they cannot use condoms because it's against their religion however they will have sex with whoever they can, whenever they can and anyway they see fit. hypocracy baby, hypocracy :) call me a lowlife jerk asshat ganker/griefer/camper or whatever you want. at least ppl like me are perfectly honest with who we are and we accept whatever label you want to put on us. mr. "high and might i wanna pvp but i'm honorable and i do fair fights" do the right thing and come to term with who you really are then.

we ALL see your side of the arguement, you're the only one who doesn't see it :)

[fzyx]

and clearly, you are wrong about yourself. you don't like pvp.


Dude, you got some idea in your head and you can't let it go. Don't you have something better to do with your billions in gold? I'm not asking for your opinion, I don't value your opinion, and you've added absolutely nothing since your first post except that you are beginning to call people names. Move on.

[kcma]

you're right everyone including me are all wrong and you're teh right <3 carry on, carry on :)

[fzyx]

you're right everyone including me are all wrong and you're teh right <3 carry on, carry on :)

To the OP, sorry for waylaying your thread. Did you decide to switch or stay?

[cyradis2003]

Not really, but you are clearly not trying to understand the other side of the argument so lets just leave it at that. As I told the other guy, I don't understand why you keep giving me your opinion when I haven't asked for it. Oh wait a minute, you know, this feels an awful lot like being camped... You've made your point, I disagree, move on.

Posting in a thread is basically opening your point of view to all opinions. You can't tell peopple that you don't want them posting.

If you don't want people to argue with you don't post on a public forum. Actually this is the same as PvP as you mentioned above. A forum allows people to camp your posts as much as they want and there is nothing you can do save put them on ignore. PvP server alllows you to be camped with nothing to do save reroll.

I think if you want this little argument to end you are going to have to reroll threads.



On a more constructive note - RP/PVP tends to be more pvp-light meaning less of the nasty camping stuff. Something to think about.

[Aswer]

On a more constructive note - RP/PVP tends to be more pvp-light meaning less of the nasty camping stuff. Something to think about.

You obviously haven't met my UD rogue on RP-PvP who lives in Nessingwary's in STV and is being role played as a serial killer. :grin:

[fzyx]

Posting in a thread is basically opening your point of view to all opinions. You can't tell peopple that you don't want them posting.

If you don't want people to argue with you don't post on a public forum. Actually this is the same as PvP as you mentioned above. A forum allows people to camp your posts as much as they want and there is nothing you can do save put them on ignore. PvP server alllows you to be camped with nothing to do save reroll.

I think if you want this little argument to end you are going to have to reroll threads.



On a more constructive note - RP/PVP tends to be more pvp-light meaning less of the nasty camping stuff. Something to think about.

Lol, I didn't tell anybody to stop posting or stop arguing, simply that concentrating on giving their opinion on what I should do in the game when I haven't asked for it is worthless. At least post on topic.

[Foonyak]

Lol, I didn't tell anybody to stop posting or stop arguing

Really now? What's this (http://forums.worldofwar.net/showpost.php?p=3945985&postcount=119) then?

And simply stating an opinion over and over on how Blizzard should change something that they're not planning on changing, when we haven't asked for your opinion on how to change it, is worthless by your own logic.

[fzyx]

Really now? What's this (http://forums.worldofwar.net/showpost.php?p=3945985&postcount=119) then?

And simply stating an opinion over and over on how Blizzard should change something that they're not planning on changing, when we haven't asked for your opinion on how to change it, is worthless by your own logic.

Like I said, I didn't start this thread, I posted a couple ideas on what could be done (IMHO) to make pvp better (again, IMHO), and 4 or 5 people decided to take it upon themselves to decide that I should move to a PVE server. The post you linked to was me telling kcma that he should stop telling ME what kind of server he thinks I should play on... I didn't say stop posting your opinions on PVP vs. PVE, just to stop being fixated on what I do with MY account.

I haven't stated my opinion over and over except in answer to these worthless posts directed at me. When I say move on, I'm saying stop worrying your heads about what kind of server I play on and at least make an attempt at a mature and on-topic post.

EDIT : Oh, and btw, please at least make an attempt to understand the context of my post before quoting me. This is the second time you've completely missed the point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fzyx
We all camped him
Hi pot, meet kettle.

[cyradis2003]

If we are all misunderstanding what you are saying it may be a problem with the delivery rather than the reception.

At any rate - I agree camping sucks. I hate being camped. I once was foolish enough to complain about it on this forum where I was promptly called a whiner and told to reroll pve and get a life and stop crying etc etc etc. For all that we hope these forums are more mature they often aren't.

Solution - when it comes to matters of PvP I discuss it with friends far away from kcma telling me to reroll.

While I agree that the way things are now kind of suck it doesn't mean that I want it changed. I may hate getting camped or in my case fly-by-gankings but I like my pvp server enough to put up with that. I am thinking you feel the same. The only real differences are that I already learned the hard way to keep these feelings off this particular forum and that I have accepted that nothing will change no matter how much I might want it to. And I accept that my idea of "fixed" is probably someone else's idea of "broken" so it is better to all just accept what "is" and have fun playing the game that exists rather than fighting over a game that will never be over a forum.

PS - You can't beat kcma. He is an unmutable fact of life, much like the missing sock in the dryer and the distressing odors of people next to you in lines at the grocery store.

[fzyx]

If we are all misunderstanding what you are saying it may be a problem with the delivery rather than the reception.

At any rate - I agree camping sucks. I hate being camped. I once was foolish enough to complain about it on this forum where I was promptly called a whiner and told to reroll pve and get a life and stop crying etc etc etc. For all that we hope these forums are more mature they often aren't.

Solution - when it comes to matters of PvP I discuss it with friends far away from kcma telling me to reroll.

While I agree that the way things are now kind of suck it doesn't mean that I want it changed. I may hate getting camped or in my case fly-by-gankings but I like my pvp server enough to put up with that. I am thinking you feel the same. The only real differences are that I already learned the hard way to keep these feelings off this particular forum and that I have accepted that nothing will change no matter how much I might want it to. And I accept that my idea of "fixed" is probably someone else's idea of "broken" so it is better to all just accept what "is" and have fun playing the game that exists rather than fighting over a game that will never be over a forum.

PS - You can't beat kcma. He is an unmutable fact of life, much like the missing sock in the dryer and the distressing odors of people next to you in lines at the grocery store.

Points well taken and thanks for the civil voice :) And yes, this thread has been extremely annoying to me and at times I have probably not communicated my thoughts in a way that was easily understood.

[Katrala]

To the OP, sorry for waylaying your thread. Did you decide to switch or stay?

I'm still thinking about it, but the closer I get to 70, the more I think, "What's the point switching now?"

I've been considering starting an alt on a PvE server just to see what it's like (since I've never really played for any significant length of time on PvE), but I've already invested so much time in my current main that I really don't want to give her up.

I have thought about switching to RP-PvP in the hopes of an older and more mature server, but I may first roll on a RP server and see if I like that atmosphere before switching my main.

For the most part - the responses here have been very helpful (if at somepoint you've said, "L2P," then I'm not directing it at you) and before this thread, I didn't really think of it as being one faction trying to slow the PvE progression of the other faction - which makes sense, of course. Using that viewpoint (which I really don't think many people on PvP use - they just want to kill, kill, kill instead of killing at thought-out points in the game where more progression, etc. occurs) the whole idea of PvP appeals to me much more than PvE.

[Foonyak]

Like I said, I didn't start this thread, I posted a couple ideas on what could be done (IMHO) to make pvp better (again, IMHO), and 4 or 5 people decided to take it upon themselves to decide that I should move to a PVE server. The post you linked to was me telling kcma that he should stop telling ME what kind of server he thinks I should play on... I didn't say stop posting your opinions on PVP vs. PVE, just to stop being fixated on what I do with MY account.

Not really, but you are clearly not trying to understand the other side of the argument so lets just leave it at that. As I told the other guy, I don't understand why you keep giving me your opinion when I haven't asked for it. Oh wait a minute, you know, this feels an awful lot like being camped... You've made your point, I disagree, move on.

There is your entire post in question. Nowhere does it say, "KCMA, you've taken my post out of context, and I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't tell me what to do with my account." It says what it says, which is, "You don't understand my opinion, and neither does the other guy. I don't want you two giving me your opinions. I don't care about your opinions, which are fully backed by Blizzard, go away."

EDIT : Oh, and btw, please at least make an attempt to understand the context of my post before quoting me. This is the second time you've completely missed the point.

I understand the context of your posts. Believe me, it's not hard at all to understand that you're not happy with the current state of the PvP system, nor is it beyond me that you believe you have the answer to solve the problem you perceive in the current PvP system.

Grant me the same respect that you ask of me. Understand that not all PvP players are unhappy with the current system, and some in fact, are great fans of the way it currently works.

Your solution my be what you want, but it is not what everyone wants, not is it perceived by others to be better than what is currently implemented.

I've asked before, and I'll ask again.

Are you or are you not vehemently opposed to corpse camping?

Did you or did you not corpse camp a player's corpse?

If the answer to either of those questions is no, then I misunderstood your post. If the answer to both of those questions is yes, then I did not misunderstand your post.

[fzyx]

Are you or are you not vehemently opposed to corpse camping?

Did you or did you not corpse camp a player's corpse?

If the answer to either of those questions is no, then I misunderstood your post. If the answer to both of those questions is yes, then I did not misunderstand your post.

I am not vehemently opposed to corpse camping in all situations. If I am a level 70 alliance character who raids a horde town and the guards/lowbies/reinforcments manage to kill me, I rez and start killing lowbies again, then by all means camp me until I corpse hop out of your town. My highest level toon is 41, so I have never done this.

I have waited around for somebody to rez after a fight to see if they want to go at it again, if they do, I kill them again. If they've been camping an alliance lowbie and I'm helping the lowbie, then yes, I'll kill them a couple times to make the point until they leave.

I have never picked out a character 30 levels below me, killed them, and kept killing them until they finally log off in despair.

If you are a level 70 horde and you come into southshore, kill all the npc's, kill all the lowbies, then kill them again for 2 hours so that nobody can do anything in the town. Yes, I'm opposed to that kind of camping.

The specific situation that you misquoted/misunderstood was me (lvl 30) in refuge pointe, a lvl 70 invades, kills everybody, we put out a call for support, the highest level ally in area comes (lvl 65 hunter), and combined with the support of the NPC guards we were able to kill the horde. He rezzed, went at us again, we killed him (we mostly being the 65 hunter and npc's). Hunter leaves, the horde comes back with rez sickness but stayed around, so we (a bunch of lvl 30's) killed him. I'm not sure you can even call that camping, but we did kill the same character multiple times until he had to leave.

And feel free to replace all the "horde" above with "alliance" and vice versa, I'm sure it happens in both directions.

[Katrala]

I don't really consider it camping in the same way if the other person starts the fight. If a horde player comes into alliance area with the sole person of killing everyone, then by all means make their life miserable. Same for alliance in horde area.

If you go and attack someone or opposing NPC's, then there can be no complaining about being camped.

[Foonyak]

fzyx, check your PM. Far too off-topic to be posted in the thread

[fzyx]

fzyx, check your PM. Far too off-topic to be posted in the thread

To keep things on the up and up, I'm going to post my response to Foonyak's pm (but not his pm since he apparently wants to keep it private). Foonyak - this is very on-topic, probably more on-topic than all of the posts in the last 10 pages.

There is a half-way here, if you bring the fight to me and you're lower level than me or equal level to me, I will make your life miserable (if I can) until you leave me alone.

If you bring the fight to me and you are hugely overpowered compared to me, yet you keep killing me over and over until I have no recourse but to logout for the night? That is different from me defending myself on my own turf.

I'm sorry if you can't see the difference. Think of it this way, the United States could invade Canada. We could stomp them into the ground and camp out for as long as we wanted. Making sure the whole time that their entire infrastructure was in shambles so nobody in the country could go about their daily life. Do we? Should we? No. If only because there is some sort of international policing force that would stop the injustice.

If Canada invades the United States and we turned around and stomped them into the ground until they stopped sending forces into our country, we'd be perfectly justified.

Sorry if I offended any Canadians...

[kcma]

so basically, you're saying 1) we're all wrong and you're right. you are a pvp loving kindda buddy and we're crazy. 2) you don't want to hear any opinion, unless they happen to agree with your opinion, which is obviously the only correct opinion. 3) you have no valid argument than, 'this is want i want and if you don't agree that's right.... go away!!' 4) i want WARRRRR! but only on these terms a. it's fair. b. i can defend myself. c. if i lose you go away. d. if i stop wanting this war, you go away!

waren't we kindda camping iraq right now? :D

[fzyx]

Technically, yeah :) But I've been trying hard not to make this political...

What I'm saying is I understand you love PVP the way it is, camping and all, and you certainly have a right to love it. I welcome your opinion and I do believe you have alot of wisdom to impart given your experience with the game. Let me try to reset the discussion so we can rescue some sort of usefulness from this thread.

Lets discuss the question of why people switch from PVP to PVE and whether they will get what they want out of a PVE server.

Why don't you tell us what critical experiences you get out of a PVP server that you don't get out of a PVE server? Is there anything you don't like about PVP? Maybe some constructive discussion of experiences from people who believe PVP is all it could be will give us naysayers some things to think about.

To those who feel like me about PVP and don't think they are getting everything out of it they could, what specifically do you not like? And what do you think you would be missing in PVE that keeps you on a PVP server?

Lets not discuss my account, what you think I should do with my account, or whether you think I'm a hypocrit for staying on a PVP server when I have issues with the gameplay. That is not on the table for discussion.

OK?

[fzyx]

llllllllllll

[sohcan]

I personally have no issue with the way pvp servers are, I used to play on one exclusively. Although I see someone has mentioned that Blizzard sees pvp servers (camping, ganking, etc) as "working as intended" I don't recall anyone mentioning why Blizzard thinks so. The why, I have seen a CM on the official boards say this but don't have the quote handy, is that there is, as Blizzard would say, "a pvp resolution available" for these problems and I agree with that.

If you are being camped you can solicit help in chat from people in the area, which although not always reliable it can and does happen. Secondly if you run solo in the game you should probably join a guild, there is strength in numbers. If you are already in a guild and they won't come and back you up then you need to find a better guild.

On my old pvp server I never had an issue with being camped after I joined my guild. Any time I was unfairly outgunned all I would need to do was holler in guild chat and two to fifteen members of my guild would fly into the area and slap the campers around. If warranted they would camp the offenders until they logged off. A good guild means you have back up most of the time if you need it.

As for the argument ongoing at the end of this thread here, well it has turned into glorified phallus waving instead of constructive debate. :P

Also if Blizzard was to add a new ruleset I would imagine they would add a free for all pvp server before they would add "pvp lite". Which would in turn take a lot of those who engage in merciless pvp off the normal pvp servers, and this in turn might produce the result fzyx desires. However I can't see Blizzard being interested in maintaining yet another ruleset because it means another code base to look after. In other words you currently have the choice between PVE and PVP, neither of which is a panacea for all players.

My two copper. ;)

[fzyx]

I personally have no issue with the way pvp servers are, I used to play on one exclusively. Although I see someone has mentioned that Blizzard sees pvp servers (camping, ganking, etc) as "working as intended" I don't recall anyone mentioning why Blizzard thinks so. The why, I have seen a CM on the official boards say this but don't have the quote handy, is that there is, as Blizzard would say, "a pvp resolution available" for these problems and I agree with that.

If you are being camped you can solicit help in chat from people in the area, which although not always reliable it can and does happen. Secondly if you run solo in the game you should probably join a guild, there is strength in numbers. If you are already in a guild and they won't come and back you up then you need to find a better guild.

On my old pvp server I never had an issue with being camped after I joined my guild. Any time I was unfairly outgunned all I would need to do was holler in guild chat and two to fifteen members of my guild would fly into the area and slap the campers around. If warranted they would camp the offenders until they logged off. A good guild means you have back up most of the time if you need it.

As for the argument ongoing at the end of this thread here, well it has turned into glorified phallus waving instead of constructive debate. :P

Also if Blizzard was to add a new ruleset I would imagine they would add a free for all pvp server before they would add "pvp lite". Which would in turn take a lot of those who engage in merciless pvp off the normal pvp servers, and this in turn might produce the result fzyx desires. However I can't see Blizzard being interested in maintaining yet another ruleset because it means another code base to look after. In other words you currently have the choice between PVE and PVP, neither of which is a panacea for all players.

My two copper. ;)

Hypothetically, what would be the difference between "free for all" and the current pvp?

I should probably join a guild and travel in a pack, but I much prefer playing solo and at my own speed most of the time.

I think the problem boils down to there being two schools of thought on PVP vs. PVE. When I signed up as a complete noob to WoW the only directions I had on choosing one over the other was the little blurb that they give you when you create a new toon. I can't remember what it says, but I took PVP to mean primarily PVE + some PVP. I'm coming to understand that many other people see world PVP as its own game and PVE is merely a setting for that PVP.

[sohcan]

Hypothetically, what would be the difference between the "free for all" and the current pvp?

Free for all would be the ability to attack anyone, including members of one's own faction. Similar to what you could do in Ultima Online. I have seen people asking for this ruleset on the official boards since the launch of the game.

I do respect the fact that some people aren't happy with how pvp works currently on pvp servers but chances are that won't change. You currently, and probably always, will have to choose which server type you prefer and take the bad with the good.

[fzyx]

Free for all would be the ability to attack anyone, including members of one's own faction. Similar to what you could do in Ultima Online. I have seen people asking for this ruleset on the official boards since the launch of the game.

I do respect the fact that some people aren't happy with how pvp works currently on pvp servers but chances are that won't change. You currently, and probably always, will have to choose which server type you prefer and take the bad with the good.

Agreed, one can always hope though.

I think somebody pointed out a while ago that PVP can probably also change drastically based on the ratio of horde to alliance on your server. If I could start from the beginning again I'd do more research on the particular realm I was about to join to make sure I wasn't starting out as the underdog.

[kcma]

yeh there are definitely things i dont like about pvp realm right now. it's not pvp enough and still way too carebear.

i'd like 0 newbie zone, and potentially free-for-all pvp. that's something us beta testers wanted since beta days. back then, UD spoke common and best friends are usually cross-faction. since 99% of ppl on your faction are just annoying ppl you wann put on your KOS list anyway.

***

the current pvp rule is already very carebear. and simply put, anyone who still has issues with it and wish to change it are simply closet pve-er. they'd all be happier having move to pve realm but for some reason, "they" always refuse.

which is great. it's not nearly as fun killing and griefing another hardcore pvper like myself. teh fun in killing/camping/griefing is to see the frustration of the misplaced carebear.

***

let me help you understand something fzyx, about the mindset of ppl like me.

if you're lvl 70 and i'm lvl 30. you killed me. i'll res and come back and let you kill me again. and again and again and again. i can and will do this for the next 10 hours, it's fun until you are so sick and tire of me you run away from me. and i'll find you and chase you and hit you so you'll kill me again. and i'll res and seek you out again until you log off.

it's not about winning or killing or being higher lvl. i WILL find a way to grief you. have fun killing me :)

[fzyx]

yeh there are definitely things i dont like about pvp realm right now. it's not pvp enough and still way too carebear.

i'd like 0 newbie zone, and potentially free-for-all pvp. that's something us beta testers wanted since beta days. back then, UD spoke common and best friends are usually cross-faction. since 99% of ppl on your faction are just annoying ppl you wann put on your KOS list anyway.


How would anybody level if all zones were contested? I suppose you'd be depending on there being higher-level people of your own faction there to defend the newbies?

[kcma]

that's the challenge ppl who love pvp realm loves. you find a way, there's always a way.

how boring is it to kill 20 troggs to hit that next lvl? i've done it since end of alpha phase and i fall asleep while staring at that trogg. i welcome teh sight of lvl ??? jumping out at me. and i could care less if i dont hit lvl 22 in the next 10 hours. the fun of the game is not hitting lvl 22, it's messing around with another player. that's why ppl who love pvp play pvp. it's not the pve contents... they're just fillers. i can stay lvl 22 for the next month if there are enough ppl around to stop me from lvling up ;)

instances, BG and arena already killed most of the world pvp. it's nothing but a shell of what pvp used to be in beta days.

[murderousmic]

Oh how I wish I could gank members of my own faction.

[kcma]

Oh how I wish I could gank members of my own faction.

my sentiment exactly ;) there should be no factions. just one world. factions should be defined by players :p that UD priest and my gnome warrior happened to be bestest of friends!

and we hate the gnome mage and UD rogue next door :)

[fzyx]

my sentiment exactly ;) there should be no factions. just one world. factions should be defined by players :p that UD priest and my gnome warrior happened to be bestest of friends!

and we hate the gnome mage and UD rogue next door :)

Believe it or not I agree with that and I think it would alleviate the frustration of the inevitable see ?? horde, die, run, and do it all over again. You wouldn't know who was going to gank you or not gank you.

[kcma]

try some reverse griefing... see how many times the lvl ??? can gank you before he get so sick and tired of you he report you to GM and log off.

my record was over 6 hours.

[OrpheusDeus]

I eventually made the switch from pvp to pve myself. It took me about two years of playing to do it but I don't regret it one bit.

I started playing WoW in the open beta and rolled with RL friends upon retail's release. Went to a PvP server and endured the gank environment, in the end I had many 60's.

Beyond the frustration in questing, which I considered to be give and take as I was vary fond of griefing others whenever I could, I ran into a vary fundamental dilemma on my own server: Population diffirence.

On a PvP server if the ratio is vary much out of balance the dominant faction can and often does nearly halt the progress of the other side if they so choose. On my server, Alliance regularly camped the blackrock mountain area (when MC and BWL were end-game) and later on did the same to the AQ zone-in areas. Content that already took hours out of my night to learn often required an hour or more just to zone in, running through many of the alliance raids.

It was at that point I realized that I wasn't enjoying the perks of a pvp server (world pvp) as a player and moved on.

I've been on pve servers for a few months now and don't miss it at all. There are times when I want to run around pvping but with the abundance of world pvp objectives in outland, I don't have to go far to find fellow flagged players to skirmish with.

[kcma]

good for you. more ppl need to learn from you and your experience. ppl look at pve realm like some shameful thing, "omg i'm more leet than that!" no you're not, there's nothing wrong with playing on pve. and playing on pvp doesn't make you better. just different.

[cyradis2003]

try some reverse griefing... see how many times the lvl ??? can gank you before he get so sick and tired of you he report you to GM and log off.

my record was over 6 hours.

I saw a movie of this on my old server. This lvl 30 paladin was trying to quest and a lvl 9 Tauren kept running up to him and hitting him then running away. It made a hysterical movie but it was all cut to look like the paladin was griefing the lvl 9 ... until the end when it showed all the times the shaman attacked him first and taunted /rude etc.



fixed to quote the right quote :-) makes a lot more sense now

[fzyx]

try some reverse griefing... see how many times the lvl ??? can gank you before he get so sick and tired of you he report you to GM and log off.

my record was over 6 hours.

the corpse runs would kill me...

btw - if you rez at the spirit after getting killed in pvp, does it take anything from you? i know that getting killed doesn't reduce durability.

[kcma]

no, but after a while you ahve to wait longer for res. and corpse run is a minor price to pay for driving the lvl ??? completely insane. after a couple of hours most ppl wont even kill you, they'll run away from you :p and i'd just chase them down and keep whacking them until they kill me again and again. i've been reported to GM for that before, might've made that person cried :p and that person logged off for the day, i just came here and posted and chatted on IM with my friend waiting for that person to log back on and it never happened.

[LucidTaint]

if the pve servers are anything like mine(rp server fyi) when you are flagged its not so much the flagged enemies that are a problem, its the herds of unflagged people that attack.

....

but it is amusing when you take halaa with 5 horde then slowly over time more and more unflagged alliance fly in to the area untill they outnumber you 4-1 then attack :laugh:

RoFL -- okay, here's my newb moment for the year. But you made me think of it. And it's funny enough that I'm not embarrassed to share it, because I was getting quite a laugh out of it when it happened.

So I play on an RP PvE server, also (Thorium Brotherhood, if anyone was curious). And this was a little bit after BC had come out. I'm out in Nagrand, leveling late one night, and I'm running back to Telaar to turn in quests when I see this thing that I can click on -- it brings up the little "wheel" cursor up when I hover over it with my mouse. It says "Wyvern Roost" and I wonder to myself, "Gee, what's that?" So what do I do? I run up and click on it. Only here's the thing, for those of you who play on a PvP server and don't realize this... on a PvE server, when you click on a PvP objective like that, it automatically flags you.

So now I'm flagged, and figure what the heck, I might as well try and figure out how the PvP objective in Nagrand works while I am, right? Except that when I take the wyvern flight, I completely miss the part about the bombs being added to my inventory. So I'm flying around Halaa, enjoying the view, but unsure of what I'm really supposed to be doing. Not knowing that I would land back at the very wyvern roost that I took off from, I also didn't realize that I was advertising my presence to all of the Horde that were sitting in the town....

And so yeah... when I finally landed, I was surrounded by about 20 Horde, all thirsty for my blood (because, as I've mentioned before, on PvE servers, if you are flagged, you're fresh meat)....

I felt so stupid, but me and my guild mates got a good laugh out of the whole thing. (In fact, some of them still don't let me live it down.)

[Exalted Warlock]

I started out on Korgath server because the friend who got me addicted to WOW played on that one - but I didn't know squat about PVP/PVE servers;
but after trying to maneuver through it (with him helping me at first) - after all the countless battles against Hordies I asked him about it, and he explained the "big picture" to me.

He loves the pvp crap.

I despise it. If I want it, i want to do it when I'm ready for it -
I don't want to play WOW when 99% of the time I'm always just looking over my shoulder to see how many hordies are camped nearby waiting to ambush me should I poke my head out of an an Alliance controlled area.

Ambushed constantly by mallicious little 13 year olds who hate the world is not my idea of fun - dying 20 times a session while trying to just do quests and explore the world? No thanks.

I moved my 12th level Warlock to a PVE server, and yes, paid the $25 or whatever, but I couldn't be happier.

Now I get to PLAY THE DAMN GAME,
rather than run from bullies every second.
Enough of those losers in the real world. I play a game for fun,
not to be victimized by people who are losers in real life,
and are overcompensating for their shortcomings :)

[kcma]

you can do lvl 1 to 12 in about 5 hours...

[bwirum]

So maybe he makes 6 bucks / hour working. He came out on top.

[rgirty]

no, but after a while you ahve to wait longer for res. and corpse run is a minor price to pay for driving the lvl ??? completely insane. after a couple of hours most ppl wont even kill you, they'll run away from you :p and i'd just chase them down and keep whacking them until they kill me again and again. i've been reported to GM for that before, might've made that person cried :p and that person logged off for the day, i just came here and posted and chatted on IM with my friend waiting for that person to log back on and it never happened.

This is why i live in instances.

The above is a fine example of why there is often a traffic jam and subsequent accidents at the scene of an original accident. People enjoy the misery of other people. Causing people misery and stress is great joy for others. Logging into wow and saying to yourself "who's gaming experience can i ruin today" is why some people play the game. Once you understand that the nature of why things happen on PvP servers becomes more clear.

People always say don't equate a game with real life, but i'm sure most of you can see how this mirrors certain behaviors in the real world.

[fzyx]

This is why i live in instances.

The above is a fine example of why there is often a traffic jam and subsequent accidents at the scene of an original accident. People enjoy the misery of other people. Causing people misery and stress is great joy for others. Logging into wow and saying to yourself "who's gaming experience can i ruin today" is why some people play the game. Once you understand that the nature of why things happen on PvP servers becomes more clear.

People always say don't equate a game with real life, but i'm sure most of you can see how this mirrors certain behaviors in the real world.

Then the question becomes, do you live in a gated community and never leave to avoid people like that? Or do you go about your normal life constantly aware that you may have to modify what you need/want to do in order to steer clear of people who's only purpose is to cause you misery? Or do you say, if I can't beat em, join em...

I don't think I'll ever enjoy camping people, but after this thread I've become alot more light-hearted about ganking or being ganked. I was trying to quest next to booty bay last night but kept getting killed by ??'s. Eventually I gave up and got a small group together and started messing with them as much as we could (we were just a bunch of low 40's and they were all ?? to us). Eventually like 20 horde swarmed and wouldn't let any alliance in or out of the tunnel to booty bay. In the past this would have been extremely annoying to the point where I would have logged out, but this time I just swam around booty bay and finished the bloodsail quest I was trying to do in the first place.

Point being, PVP isn't nearly as annoying if you take it for what it is, and if you realize that you may not always be able to quest where and when you want to... Luckily, its a big world.

[NOYB]

Point being, PVP isn't nearly as annoying if you take it for what it is, and if you realize that you may not always be able to quest where and when you want to... Luckily, its a big world.

I think that says it all.

Leveling a character on a PvE server leaves one with a sense of accomplishment. Leveling one on a PvP server means even more. Not to mention all of the battles you'll have to look back on. Of all my characters I've leveled, my PvP toons are by far the most memorable.

[rgirty]

Then the question becomes, do you live in a gated community and never leave to avoid people like that? Or do you go about your normal life constantly aware that you may have to modify what you need/want to do in order to steer clear of people who's only purpose is to cause you misery? Or do you say, if I can't beat em, join em...

I don't think I'll ever enjoy camping people, but after this thread I've become alot more light-hearted about ganking or being ganked. I was trying to quest next to booty bay last night but kept getting killed by ??'s. Eventually I gave up and got a small group together and started messing with them as much as we could (we were just a bunch of low 40's and they were all ?? to us). Eventually like 20 horde swarmed and wouldn't let any alliance in or out of the tunnel to booty bay. In the past this would have been extremely annoying to the point where I would have logged out, but this time I just swam around booty bay and finished the bloodsail quest I was trying to do in the first place.

Point being, PVP isn't nearly as annoying if you take it for what it is, and if you realize that you may not always be able to quest where and when you want to... Luckily, its a big world.

I steer away from the dregs of society, the bad parts of town. The areas I know better than to go into. Yes that is correct. If I had the means yes i would live in a gated community for the wellbeing and safety of my family.

That being said, I do other things. Donate my time as a "computer expert" to elderly people from different area churches. I always pick up 2 or 3 angels from the angel trees, donate to the united way...etc.

If something happens to me, then no one benefits from me.

The same can be said for wow, who's going to heal that instance if I let kcma camp/reverse camp me so he can enjoy another day of causing someone misery.

[Torik]

I've never been a fan of PvP in MMORPGs. It just is not my style of play. However, I actually enjoy the Battlegrounds in WoW (except WSG). I like the fact that there is a defined purpose for the PvP. I am not just killing other players for the heck of it but to accomplish a set goal.

As far as world PvP goes I like the capturable objectives in Bone Wastes and Hallaa. Once again there is a set achievable goal there that goes beyond just farming honor. The same goes for duels and arenas. While I do not participate in these activities I see their value and more importantly they have a set goal with defined objectives.

World PvP just lacks that appeal to me. It really does not achieve anything of significance and any challenges tend to be fleeting.

This is why for me personally PvP servers just do not have any real appeal. All the 'fun' PvP stuff can be done on a PvE server as well and the type of ganking you get on a PvP server jsut does not hold much excitement for me.

[Le GoogelGuRu]

I'm not terribly fond of PvP. I want to train where I want (in my faction territory, obviously) without the danger of opposite factions attacking me. Like Torik said, it's just not my style of play.

[Tanitha]

I'm not terribly fond of PvP. I want to train where I want (in my faction territory, obviously) without the danger of opposite factions attacking me. Like Torik said, it's just not my style of play.

More than fair enough. Just one point though, you are safe in your Factions' territory. You will only flag there if you actually attack an enemy player or aid somebody who is already flagged. Otherwise you can stand off safely and emote at them without any fear of repercussions.

You are only in danger in Contested and Enemy territory.

However, that does not stop enemy players from killing quest givers and so on, but that is usually met with a forceful response.

[snrofgar]

Only patient people should be allowed on Pvp Servers... yes pvp servers you will at some point get ganked.

[kcma]

pvp not your thing? nothing wrong with that. just strange that some ppl dont like pvp but insist on playing on pvp realm :p

[Gekothan]

I've considered switching to a PvE server many times, particularily last night when half of the best Horde guild on my server camped a group of us Alliance at the Elemental Plateau graveyard for literally over an hour making it impossible to use the spirit healer and hearth (which the GM said ISN'T against the rules on PvP servers, despite several other GM's telling me otherwise in the past). Though, as much as I hate being ganked, I LOVE those 5v5's that break out outside instances, racing to enter first, and I love the world PvP objective in Nagrand.

In the end, I could never sacrifice all of the great times that can be with world PvP just because of some mentally inept, subhuman children :)

[kcma]

no reason to get nasty with name calling ;)

[Gekothan]

So you don't call corpsecamping for AN HOUR (or more) and spamming /spit and /rofl childish or subhuman, let alone mentally inept? =] I'd happily corpsecamp someone for 5 minutes to prove a point and have a laugh, but an hour is just wrong.

[kcma]

no it isn't :p and blizzard agrees that it isn't :)

and if you're successfully camped for an hour, then, wow... you need to just l2p :p i know you hate to hear that but it's true. good luck camping me for an hour :D

[Gekothan]

Seriously, if you think a large number of Horde with superior gear camping a small bunch of random Alliance isn't childish, then I don't know what you'd consider childish. There's no "L2P" about it, there is technically no way to win, especially with res sickness. I guess with your all powerful skill, you can beat your foes with a mere thought, eliminating the possibility of being camped, right?

I'm not gonna be told to "L2P" by anyone (even the amazing, omnipotent kcma) because I couldn't defeat a bunch of idiotic, camping Horde who outgear me and outnumber me, as well as having res sickness. Seriously, you try doing that, I dare you. Oh wait, I forgot, you can simply kill them all IRL with a mere thought :)

And if this comes across as a direct flame towards you, it isn't, but addressing me as though I were some random noob won't yield a friendly reception and as such a powerful entity, you should know that ^^

[kcma]

Seriously, if you think a large number of Horde with superior gear camping a small bunch of random Alliance isn't childish, then I don't know what you'd consider childish. There's no "L2P" about it, there is technically no way to win, especially with res sickness. I guess with your all powerful skill, you can beat your foes with a mere thought, eliminating the possibility of being camped, right?

I'm not gonna be told to "L2P" by anyone (even the amazing, omnipotent kcma) because I couldn't defeat a bunch of idiotic, camping Horde who outgear me and outnumber me, as well as having res sickness. Seriously, you try doing that, I dare you. Oh wait, I forgot, you can simply kill them all IRL with a mere thought :)

And if this comes across as a direct flame towards you, it isn't, but addressing me as though I were some random noob won't yield a friendly reception and as such a powerful entity, you should know that ^^

there are 2 things you can do. 1) res at body and run, do it at the right time ressing at the right place will get you outta the jam.

and 2) just res and die and laugh at them again and again until 8 hours later they've had it and leave. you win. learn2annoy other ppl.

[Gekothan]

I did #1 personally, fell into the pond at the bottom of the plateau (next to throne of the elements) and flew away on my mount. <3 Option #2 seems rather timeconsuming, though sounds most satisfying. Annoying people is always fun :)

[kcma]

I did #1 personally, fell into the pond at the bottom of the plateau (next to throne of the elements) and flew away on my mount. <3 Option #2 seems rather timeconsuming, though sounds most satisfying. Annoying people is always fun :)

that's the mentality ppl who wants to play on pvp realm should adopt. what do gankers/griefers want? to annoy you. if they can't annoy you, it's not fun. and if you keep running up to them and die, it gets really annoying after, ohhhh i dont know maybe 20 straight death but who's counting right? kill me! i don't care, camp me!! make it easy for me to find you again. run away from me? no way, i'll find you and run up to you naked and spank you until you kill me for theh 85th times or whatever. that's the kindda mentality that makes pvp realm work and fun. the ability to frustrate and annoying other ppl. and there is nothing more annoying to a griefer than someone who cannot be griefted.

[Katrala]

An example of what I think world PVP *should* be about (the mentality of the players).

I was on my alt last night in Redridge Mountains trying to get some quests knocked out. I get ganked 2 or 3 times by a ?? rogue and I notice that there are plenty of other horde around. My main logged off in SW, so I get on my main and fly down to Redridge. The horde there are a few levels higher than me, but we had about 5 or 6 alliance show up to fight them. They ganked several lowbies right around Lakeshire, but we managed to kill them a few times, they killed us a few times, etc. The thing is - if I had wanted to, I could have rez'ed at the graveyard and flown away. The lowbies around the area had a choice to either 1)continue being ganked or 2)leave the area and quest elsewhere. They weren't continually being camped.

In this case, I didn't feel bad about "camping" their corpses. If you come into the other faction's territory with the intent of making someone's life miserable, you deserve to be camped. I would expect no less if I were to go into horde territory and pick a fight (which I don't, since I have better things to do than to try to make myself feel good by killing people 30 levels beneath me with one hit).

With world PvP, I feel like you shouldn't be able to choose when a fight will start - it can happen at anytime, anywhere (unless you're in a starting area and have PvP turned off). I do feel, however, that you should have some option or way to get away from the fight, even though you're taking the loss of not being able to play in the area you want to play in.

The problem is that most world PvP has nothing to do with slowing the progression of PvE for the other faction and everything to do with wanting to be a jerk.

[kcma]

which makes it fun... killing murlocks put me in a coma :)

Zzzzzzzz... and i hate that Keeshan in RR... someone PLEAAAAASE kill him <3

[Katrala]

Really, this thread has changed my perspective on PvP slightly.

Yes, it still annoys me sometimes, but I think at least for this character, I'm going to leave it where it already is.

I don't think I'll ever be the type to repeatedly gank and camp corpses. However, after being repeatedly ganked in STV, I do get a huge kick out of standing about 15 years in front of the Booty Bay entrance and watching horde stall when they see me, trying to decide what to do. I don't kill them, just stand there and make them nervous. I'll occasionally switch forms or buff myself if I think they're getting confident. :D

When I bored, I enjoy playing, "Watch the horde run." I just run where any low-level horde typically are and watch them run away from me. I never hit them, just run past. I've spent half an hour before following a priest around Arathi, running just beside him, while he keeps shielding himself over and over again.

The higher level I get, the more I enjoy PvP. Now I just need to learn how to PvP better.

[fzyx]

The higher level I get, the more I enjoy PvP.

I think this is unfortunately the key... Even at lvl 44 I'm noticing that I can now choose my battles more often than not. There are still the moments when a ?? decides to stop me from doing whatever I was doing, but that is happening less and less. I'm trying to ensure that my hearthstone is up when I venture into dangerous areas and always have an invisibility potion ready. If I want to get out of there fast, run a little bit away, pop the potion, and hearth out.

I'll always hope that Blizzard will fix PVP to be more sporting, but with a small attitude adjustment I think I can make something out of what we have.

[kcma]

there is nothing more sporting than lawless relentless murdering of the young and the weak :p

too many ppl say "i wont gank" it's just so easy to say that. but if you really think about it. do you really want to kill another 500,000 murlocks? or 500,000 ogres?

how about killing that Doan in SM lib? how many more times can you entertain yourself killing him? nothing in this game, none of the PvE content, will give you the entertainment for finding the most creative way to drive another human being completely insane :) imagination is your limit.

call it the dark side, call it what you wish, but as much as you hate gankers at lvl 20-30 whatever, when you're lvl 60-70, it's great :) and once you've started ganking, you'll start appreciate being ganked, and then... you become the master of griefers by learning how to grief lvl ??? with your lowbie char ;)

[fzyx]

there is nothing more sporting than lawless relentless murdering of the young and the weak :p

too many ppl say "i wont gank" it's just so easy to say that. but if you really think about it. do you really want to kill another 500,000 murlocks? or 500,000 ogres?

how about killing that Doan in SM lib? how many more times can you entertain yourself killing him? nothing in this game, none of the PvE content, will give you the entertainment for finding the most creative way to drive another human being completely insane :) imagination is your limit.

call it the dark side, call it what you wish, but as much as you hate gankers at lvl 20-30 whatever, when you're lvl 60-70, it's great :) and once you've started ganking, you'll start appreciate being ganked, and then... you become the master of griefers by learning how to grief lvl ??? with your lowbie char ;)

There has to be a happy-medium between PVE grinding/questing as a glorified human controlled bot and a glorified rock-paper-scissors game of level and class. I just don't think Blizzard has found it yet, and I'm not sure they're looking.

[Exalted Warlock]

I respect the decision of those who play on carebear realms, but what I hate most is those that decide to roll on PvP realms like mine and then spend their life complaining on realm forums, due to, attention, ZOMG, PvP!!!!

No, you don't respect us.
Your very usage of the term "carebear" realms is condescending,
insulting, and betrays your true opinion and lack of respect.

Nice try.

Should I say that PVP realms are for people overcompensating for what they lack further down? would you find that insulting?

[Exalted Warlock]

[QUOTE=kcma;3953376]there is nothing more sporting than lawless relentless murdering of the young and the weak :p

And that, ladies and gentlemen,
is the heart of the total lack of character and heart of the above poster, and most who glory in PVP realms of being slaughtering bullies.

From their own lips (or in this case, typing fingers) reveals what's in the depths of their own hearts

[Exalted Warlock]

Why would that make you a jerk? The other player also rolled on a PvP server for the purpose of engaging in world PvP. If they did not want that opportunity they would have rolled PvE. So no, playing on a server and accepting the ruleset of that server does not make you a jerk.

It's when you start camping the lowbies that you become a jerk :wink:

Which is what every single one of you PVP'ers do,
but then claim you do not.

[Exalted Warlock]

no one is holding a gun to your head to play on pvp. want a solution? too much discussion and no answer?

easy. don't play on pvp. frustrated? don't be, play on pve.

Very true. Because if they play on pvp,
they have to play with someone who acts like you do.

And in real life, that would get you jailed or sued.

This is my last post responding to KCMAs brutality and rudeness.

[Exalted Warlock]

Fortunately, you can move a toon from PVP to PVE servers, which is what I did from korgath to thorium brotherhood. Much better.
No kcma's running around that i have yet encountered.

[Exalted Warlock]

[QUOTE=Summër;3945616]My 35 rogue camped a 33 hunter. Am I a bad person? :P

In WOW, yes you are.

[Exalted Warlock]

Like the OP said, I enjoy helping out lowbies when I can. I enjoy PVP when it is a fair fight. And I enjoy the atmosphere created by knowing around the corner I could run into a ??. It actually gets my heart pumping which is something that wouldn't happen if I could be in safe mode. I even think its cool to be in southshore when horde is raiding and trying to hide in a corner of the inn but knowing the ?? rogue is out there looking for me. I only don't enjoy it when the ?? rogue slaughters everybody in the town, and then stays around for 2 hours killing people and npc's as they respawn.

Plus, from what I've heard, PVE can be just as annoying. As a mage I frequently cast AOE spells so it would be easy for somebody who wanted to mess with me to just follow me around with their flag on to force me into PVP mode. I also hear ??'s still kill everybody in southshore and then stick around just to make it impossible to do anything in the town. So even if it wasn't for the above reasons, I don't believe PVE would solve the problem.

And finally, when i do make it to 70 I'll feel alot more accomplishment knowing I went through the hell that is PVP. I'd feel hollow getting there in a PVE environment.

Putting in a control mechanism to stop repeated camping would not stop PVP from being a war zone, and it wouldn't even mean I would get ganked less.

A PVE change to the pvp system that is needed as in the above mentioned Southshore example:
If the bloody hordie children come and kill everyone in town, then camp out there waiting to kill any rezz'ing player and any respawning npc, then they SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DEFLAG WHILE IN THE AREA.
They kill everyone, deflag, so when level 70 alliancers show up, they are powerless to do anything, and everyone stands around doing nothing because the hordie gankers are cowards, and will wait until the 70's leave, then resume slaughtering helpless npcs tying up the town, or rez'ing low levels who are still flagged.

THAT is an abomination to the game, but it is still far better
than that crap of a gankathon on all pvp servers populated
with kcmas everywhere

[Exalted Warlock]

[QUOTE=kcma;3947163]yeh there are definitely things i dont like about pvp realm right now. it's not pvp enough and still way too carebear.

i'd like 0 newbie zone, and potentially free-for-all pvp.

***************************

And THAT, is all you need 2 know about kcma's total lack of character -
he wants to be 70th level, and hang out in level 1-10 areas of the other faction, slaughtering newbies wholesale so NO ONE can start playign the game, NO one can enjoy WOW, except him and other bullies.

Following that insane, twisted, psychopathic bully mentality,
only kcma would enjoy playing the game - and others like kcma too!

No one could start a character in an opposing area, because these evil, cowardly losers would just be hanging around all day long to kill an enemy faction player the second they appeared and/or rezzed after being killed -

THAT concludes KCMA's playability --- NONE.

I pity the poor fools who play with this total,
egotistical, lack of character LOSER.

I won't post on these boards anymore -
because Kcma is the type who'd I'd ass kick in real life if I ever encountered them, to show them just what it feels like to be helpless,
you limpdick loser

[Gekothan]

Reported for flaming. Everyone hates kcma a little, but this just crosses the line.

[Jhagut]

hey well at least someone else said it so I don't have to get reported!

I mostly agree. PvPers usually exibit the most ignorant traits of all sorts, remind me of how many badly parented kids are out there, and I've yet to meet a PvP gamer IRL who didn't look like Harry Potter except a little skinnier and a little pastier.

[Aerath]

yeh there are definitely things i dont like about pvp realm right now. it's not pvp enough and still way too carebear.

i'd like 0 newbie zone, and potentially free-for-all pvp.

***************************

And THAT, is all you need 2 know about kcma's total lack of character -
he wants to be 70th level, and hang out in level 1-10 areas of the other faction, slaughtering newbies wholesale so NO ONE can start playign the game, NO one can enjoy WOW, except him and other bullies.

Following that insane, twisted, psychopathic bully mentality,
only kcma would enjoy playing the game - and others like kcma too!

No one could start a character in an opposing area, because these evil, cowardly losers would just be hanging around all day long to kill an enemy faction player the second they appeared and/or rezzed after being killed -

THAT concludes KCMA's playability --- NONE.

I pity the poor fools who play with this total,
egotistical, lack of character LOSER.

I won't post on these boards anymore -
because Kcma is the type who'd I'd ass kick in real life if I ever encountered them, to show them just what it feels like to be helpless,
you limpdick loser

1) Don't spam 50 posts in a row. You can include multiple replies in a single post. You can edit posts for up to an hour.

2) That last post earned you a 1 day ban. We do -not- appreciate flaming on these forums. Whether you agree with someone or not is all perfectly fine, namecalling is not.

Read the forum rules (linked at the top of every page) before you make another post here, and abide by them as you signed you would when you made an account here.

[Clavina]

I won't post on these boards anymore -
because Kcma is the type who'd I'd ass kick in real life if I ever encountered them, to show them just what it feels like to be helpless,
you limpdick loser

I don't think you will be missed tbh. Try and get those issues sorted out while you are away. Good Luck

Slightly more on-topic...

Imagine a time before battlegrounds and before honour points. No WSG, No AB, No AV. A time where HK's earned you CP's and there were no PvP rewards. In this golden age of WoW the only PvP was world PvP and it started like this:

Step 1) Proceed to Hillsbrad
Step 2) High Level ganks low level
Step 3) Low level gets high level friends
Step 4) High level gets more high level Friends
Step 5) Repeat Steps 3 & 4
Step 6) Outnumbered side retreat to town
Step 7) Dominant force attacks town
Step 8) People respond to World defence channel and flock to zone
Step 9) Rumble

A good time was had by all, many epic battles ensued. It was the primary source of honourable kills. I remember many a 5 hour running battle with 50-100 toons of all levels. On PvE realms there was NO PvP whatsoever.

Then BG's were released and all this died, theres just no point in world pvp. HK's are more easily got from battlegrounds. PvP on a PvP Realm is now usually just restricted to Step 3 and occasionally Step 4 of the above.

[Rysteranch]

I recently started playing on a PvE server after playing my first 4 months on a PvP server. The only reason I rolled PvP is because my son was on the server, and I wanted to play with him. Now that I'm firmly established on that server (and can team with my boy), I've started playing on a PvE server. So far, I'm not high enough level for it to make a difference (other than not being able to attack any Horde on sight in Westfall), but once I hit SV, I'm sure I'll see a big diff.

I actually prefer the PvE concept because I play to relax. My life is full of challenges and griefs, so adding more with a form of entertainment isn't what I'm looking for. I found I enjoy the BGs once in a while, but I usually don't like the running battles in the contested areas (although I wouldn't suggest limiting them).

All in all, I think that Bliz has struck a nice balance in PvP vs. PvE, and while I've been camped/grieved/ganked and the like, I think there are enough options in the game to get around most of that behavior (play another char while camped, start a toon on a PvE server, team with a group, etc.). Hopefully the newbies getting camped know about the options available to them and don't just quit out of frustration.

[kcma]

wow where was i when this all happened :p

and for the record yes i love being lvl ??? and slaughtering lowbies, but atm i'm lvl 20something and i love being slaughtered just as much if not more :)

clavina: there were even mroe golden times when there was nothing, ppl just killed ppl because it is fun :)

[dagee]

I have played on both realms and in all honesty I prefer a PVP realm despite the fact that my play style is definitely more pve oriented. Let me explain, I don't initiate world pvp. When I game I do pve quests and, yes some light role play. For some reason the idea of jumping someone who is questing does not appeal to me. On the other hand being in a zone where you can be attacked by another human controlled character is exciting. While being smacked down by a ?? is not exactly thrilling the thought that at any moment during you questing you can smacked down makes your questing time seem more dangerous - you are always on your guard - unlike on a pve realm.

My favorite times on a pvp realm is when a near lvl to me jumps me. Like I said I don't really care for initiating world pvp but I do enjoy revenge pvp. Usually I play a rogue whith improved SAP and increased Master of deception maxed. My way of revenge is to torment my killer for a while using imp SAP. Just sap him every 5 to 10 minutes or so for a while without actually killing him - ok I admit sometimes I do kill him depends on my mood. But this is what makes a pvp realm fun, it breaks up the monotany (sp?) of pve play. I think though it appeals to players who have already gone through the game and are not racing to 70 - it gives them more variety of play.

I still think though, it would be cool to put a bounty on a high lvl gankers head. It would really add to the role playing part of WOW (yeah I know there are tons of ways to abuse it but still I think it would be cool).

[Katrala]

Is it within the rules to offer gold to someone if they can come and kill a ganker?

[fzyx]

I have played on both realms and in all honesty I prefer a PVP realm despite the fact that my play style is definitely more pve oriented. Let me explain, I don't initiate world pvp. When I game I do pve quests and, yes some light role play. For some reason the idea of jumping someone who is questing does not appeal to me. On the other hand being in a zone where you can be attacked by another human controlled character is exciting. While being smacked down by a ?? is not exactly thrilling the thought that at any moment during you questing you can smacked down makes your questing time seem more dangerous - you are always on your guard - unlike on a pve realm.

My favorite times on a pvp realm is when a near lvl to me jumps me. Like I said I don't really care for initiating world pvp but I do enjoy revenge pvp. Usually I play a rogue whith improved SAP and increased Master of deception maxed. My way of revenge is to torment my killer for a while using imp SAP. Just sap him every 5 to 10 minutes or so for a while without actually killing him - ok I admit sometimes I do kill him depends on my mood. But this is what makes a pvp realm fun, it breaks up the monotany (sp?) of pve play. I think though it appeals to players who have already gone through the game and are not racing to 70 - it gives them more variety of play.

I still think though, it would be cool to put a bounty on a high lvl gankers head. It would really add to the role playing part of WOW (yeah I know there are tons of ways to abuse it but still I think it would be cool).

Wouldn't that give an advantage to twinks and rich toons? The people who are the most aggravated by jerks camping them are most likely noobies to the game with low-level characters who couldn't offer more than 10s... Once you have enough money to bring in a lvl 70 it seems like you'd probably also have learned ways to deal with the aggravation, or switched to PVE.

[kcma]

Is it within the rules to offer gold to someone if they can come and kill a ganker?

perfectly legit.

[Tanitha]

Is it within the rules to offer gold to someone if they can come and kill a ganker?

I can't see why not.

[Stigg]

People that get pissed off when they are getting camped really need ot heed kcma's advice. Its a freakin game. Get over it. If you are so needing to play the game that you can't peel yourself away from it for an hour while the camper moves on to his next target, then at least have some fun with it.

For example....today on my lunch break I was attempting to kill pirates in STV. Some asinine hunter comes along and proceeds to camp me. He was level 48. So, everytime I rez, I swim out into the sea. He meets me and kills me, so I swim further out to see. RInse and repeat. He killed me iirc 13 times. One time, when I returned to my body, I found him dead....and when I rezd, i was in the deep water. I guess he never knew about that. SO i hearthed on back and went to work.

I could NEVER roll on a PVE server. No way in hell. It subtracts SOMETHING from the game. Yes, it adds more annoyance than pleasure. But at least I will get to experience something that I will not be able to on a different server. Living in constant fear of that rogue you swear you just saw on the corner of the screen. Was it alliance? Was it horde? Oh god!

Seeing that equal level player off in the distance, watchhim target you, and simultaneously begin running at eachother...knowing that in a few short mintes somebody will have a nice long walk to contemplate the error of their ways.

On the other hand, my older brother, when he used to play went from a PVP to a PVE server....when he reached level 20 and went to tarren mill.

He is a cardiologist, and only had about 30 minutes to play a night. If he got ganked once, it was practically 2 full days before he could be back and alive, only to get one-shotted again. He switched to a PVE realm, and in the end he just didn't have enough time ot play the game regardless. But in people situation when you just can't be on for any decent amount of time...then I understand.

[kcma]

where's the rush to level up right? in pvp, every level is fun. no reason to rush to 70 asap :)

[Tanitha]

where's the rush to level up right? in pvp, every level is fun. no reason to rush to 70 asap :)

Exactly. It seems like just yesterday we were talking to a brand new player who had leveled up to 70 in a rush and had no idea how to play their class. Especially on a PvP server you need to take the time to learn its strengths and weaknesses and to exploit those of your foes. Besides, it's fun from level 1 through to 70 and beyond, so why skip out on the wide variety of entertainment you can have?

[fzyx]

where's the rush to level up right? in pvp, every level is fun. no reason to rush to 70 asap :)

In my opinion PVP gets more fun the higher level you get because you can choose where and when you want to fight. I noticed that just having a mount makes me alot less susceptible to attack because its more difficult to chase me down. People with epic mounts will still try, but they are infrequent and typically have other stuff to do.

PVP in the early 30's in STV was not fun for me. All I had was my leather boots (didn't even have the pvp boots with +speed) and there were plenty of eager lvl 40's willing to chase me down and kill me. I don't know how you've learned to love it, but corpse runs (especially in STV with all the cliffs and rivers) are incredibly painful for me.

I think a turning point for me in STV is when I fought off a warrior who had just jumped me, he started to run so I chased him back to his... horde town? Just south of where I've been trying to quest for the last week and keep getting camped? Well no wonder the hordies are all up-in-arms when I run past their front door. I also realized there was no reason I had to finish those quests if I grinded out a couple levels in Desolace. So I dropped the quests and now only return to booty bay when I feel frisky. My gaming time is now much more enjoyable. Even though I hate PVP sometimes, I wouldn't give it up because I would never experience the feeling that my character actually lived through something horrible that I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get in PVE.

[rgirty]

where's the rush to level up right? in pvp, every level is fun. no reason to rush to 70 asap :)

Unless you have friends that play with you and don't consider suicide runs into the group of 70's who just ganked you for hours on end "fun".

Those friends who like to level up and run instances and not spend hours and hours more or less in an attempt just to annoy every other player on the server of the opposite faction.

Then you might want to level up some, maybe even rush it a bit. Or your friends might level on up and you wouldn't get to play with them anymore.

[kcma]

i hope friendship between you and your friends go beyond a few 10s of levels of difference ;)

and what's more fun in this game than surviving and escaping the ganking from lvl ??? nothing. no AI in game can match that lvl of ruthlessness and persistance and challenge. being lvl 30something in STV is my very very favorite part of the game :)

[Xaintrix]

In my opinion PVP gets more fun the higher level you get because you can choose where and when you want to fight. I noticed that just having a mount makes me alot less susceptible to attack because its more difficult to chase me down. People with epic mounts will still try, but they are infrequent and typically have other stuff to do.

PVP in the early 30's in STV was not fun for me. All I had was my leather boots (didn't even have the pvp boots with +speed) and there were plenty of eager lvl 40's willing to chase me down and kill me. I don't know how you've learned to love it, but corpse runs (especially in STV with all the cliffs and rivers) are incredibly painful for me.

I think a turning point for me in STV is when I fought off a warrior who had just jumped me, he started to run so I chased him back to his... horde town? Just south of where I've been trying to quest for the last week and keep getting camped? Well no wonder the hordies are all up-in-arms when I run past their front door. I also realized there was no reason I had to finish those quests if I grinded out a couple levels in Desolace. So I dropped the quests and now only return to booty bay when I feel frisky. My gaming time is now much more enjoyable. Even though I hate PVP sometimes, I wouldn't give it up because I would never experience the feeling that my character actually lived through something horrible that I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get in PVE.


Hello the me of a month and a half ago. I actually snapped in Terokkar after the umpteenth pack of "ballsy" 70s that came down to gank a hapless 64 that was questing. I used to think I could tough it out until the end, but after respeccing to resto I've had no end to the hell I've seen. Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting to really gank people or something unreasonable like that with that spec - but after getting your shield torn down countless times and ripped asunder it gets old.

About the only funny Outland experience was a Rogue that nailed me in the kidneys but couldn't do enough damage to bang through my Earth Shield. Very amusing.

Swapped to PvE... and honestly with the limited time I have now it's been much more relaxing which is what I really need after a long day of work.

[Tanitha]

Unless you have friends that play with you and don't consider suicide runs into the group of 70's who just ganked you for hours on end "fun".

Yeah, friends is a good reason to keep up with the leveling, especially if you're doing the odd instance run together and so on. But then, usually you should be able to work together in a group anyway so you'll be a lot safer from ganking. Sure - not immune to a group of higher levels, but there is some strength in numbers.

So while I'll say to each his own, I can't help but feel that even on a PvP server rapid leveling misses so much of the beautiful content there is in the game. Some of the quests are simple grind fests, but others are beautifully scripted and lovely and they are at all levels of the game. It just seems as if the "ZOMG must hit 70 nowz" crowd is missing out on a game that spans 70 levels and only playing one.

[kcma]

i haven't had a end lvl char in a long time now :)

[fzyx]

i hope friendship between you and your friends go beyond a few 10s of levels of difference ;)

and what's more fun in this game than surviving and escaping the ganking from lvl ??? nothing. no AI in game can match that lvl of ruthlessness and persistance and challenge. being lvl 30something in STV is my very very favorite part of the game :)

If a lvl ?? decides to kill you, there is really no way out of it unless he gets bored. I'm a mage with something like 1000hp, anything more than 8 levels above me can typically 2-shot me if not 1-shot.

In fact I once 3-shotted myself... I was running with a ?? rogue behind me and luckily stumbled into a group of higher-level allies who took on the rogue. I turned around and started launching pyro and then a fireball at the rogue, only to have them all reflected back on me. I died before I realized what was happening :)

But I agree that there is nothing more fun than surviving and escaping from being jumped by a character 3-4 levels above me. Especially if said character is a warlock.

[rgirty]

I play pvp and have never had a problem leveling. Honestly on a pvp server if you just stay out of the farming areas and away from the questing areas you have little if any issue.

I don't quest, and i never needed money so I rarely had problems. It is fairly annoying when a group camps an instance entrance but it does happen.

Tuesday night at kara should be the name of a novel, or movie.

[Tanitha]

But I agree that there is nothing more fun than surviving and escaping from being jumped by a character 3-4 levels above me. Especially if said character is a warlock.

/growl. As a Warlock, I really, really dislike that. Many moons ago I was ambushed while grinding by a gnome magette. A petite little thing with brightly coloured hair and fiery hands. After the inevitable resurrection and curses for that cowardly attack, vengeance was to be mine.

But I had to chase her for about two whole circuits of Shimmering Flats, because every few seconds she'd blink ahead and I had no way to slow her down. And just as I'd get into range and throw a few DoTs on, she'd be blinking even further away.

GRRRRRR!

[fzyx]

/growl. As a Warlock, I really, really dislike that. Many moons ago I was ambushed while grinding by a gnome magette. A petite little thing with brightly coloured hair and fiery hands. After the inevitable resurrection and curses for that cowardly attack, vengeance was to be mine.

But I had to chase her for about two whole circuits of Shimmering Flats, because every few seconds she'd blink ahead and I had no way to slow her down. And just as I'd get into range and throw a few DoTs on, she'd be blinking even further away.

GRRRRRR!

I'm sure she was just getting even for the last time she was feared and dotted into oblivion :)

[kcma]

surviving 3-4+ lvl is fun, but you should try to take those out :p now, lvl ??? is the real challenge ;)

[Katrala]

Just thought I'd do a rez on this thread to say thanks to anyone (a couple who sent PMs, too) who encouraged me to stay in PvP.

I recently got flight form and I can now see that I may eventually be one of those people who just kill horde for no other reason than being bored (all within 10 levels of me, though).

I've had so much fun flying around the Outlands, look for unsuspecting horde, swooping down - moonkin - kill - back up again instantly - that it's making the 1,432 times I was ganked in STV completely worth it.