moroes!

[rgirty]

My fresh new 5 day old guild put together a kara run last night. We had to pug about 4 people to do this.

We didn't have any deaths or trouble through attunemen or the trash and made our way to moroes.

We would get the adds under control or killed then start on moroes, we would run out of healing before getting him down.

We had two holy/disc priests healing. Myself and another priest. I was at +1500 heal and 175/mp5. I don't believe his stats were that high but they were good.

We had a prot pally who didn't want to heal much and wasn't real effective at fearing his add and I believe that was our downfall.

It seemed the garrottes either took too much mana to heal through, or it would kill enough dps classes to prevent us from winning the fight. I believe if we would have had a holy paladin OR a shadow priest for ve/vt we could have been successful.

Keep in mind there wasn't a single person there in any kara gear, we were all in rep items, 5 man blues and crafted gear. One of the two drops we got from attunemen was de'd the other were the priest gloves who went to the other priest (he was fairly joyed at how fair we were, and in fact joined our guild due to that fact we just rolled on them and he won).

The dps seemed good, as all the trash and first boss went down rather quickly. I have downed that guy a few times and have not seen him go down so fast before we just seemed to run out of healing power on moroes. Being a dwarf myself stoneform kept me alive fairly easily and keeping a mob shackled wasn't tough.

That was my next question, we had 4 adds. We shackled 1, tanked one, trapped one and feared one. Being unfamiliar with the fight, i followed the lead of someone who said they had seen it before. Apparently the other 3 mobs could break shackle and not be controlled in that fashion.

It seemed to me if there were two mobs that could be shackled, leaving only one to offtanked and burned down with one being feared then destroyed next that we could get to moroes quicker and have fewer people down or suffering from garotte.

How do you do it? Advice/suggestions? Since he is so easy to get to and everyone needs rep for their rings so they don't mind pulling trash (i got the epic vengeance wrap tailoring pattern off a trash mob woot) we'll be trying it again over the weekend in hopes of getting him down.

I've read some wikki's and talked to some folks, but I value the opinions/methods of the folks here above all others.

Thanks in advance, and I apologize for the length of this post.

[Kitano]

In my guild we generally have 2 Priests to shackle and a Hunter to trap 1. We also have a tank and an OT for the adds. The Hutner MD's Moroes to the MT and lays a trap for an add. The Priests each keep 1 shackled and the raid DPS's down the first add. Then we move on to the trapped target, followed by 1 shackle. We leave 1 trapped/shackled the entire fight and run out and let it despawn after Moroes is dead or kill it depending on our mood.

As for Moroes, there's reall not much you can do about the Garrotes. It's completely random as to who gets hit but Hunters can avoid it every time if you FD when he vanishes and stay down until he reappears. As long as you have the healing and a good tank, the rest of the raid should have no trouble DPSing Moroes down.

[CorinthianSC]

If we have two priests, we shackle two for the duration of the fight, and kill two adds before going to Moroes. With two add's down the CC is much more manageable, and more of your group can focus on killing the boss.

This is by no means the only way to do it, I've done kills with 3 CC'ed the entire fight, and seen groups kill all add before Moroes. So there is flexibility.

Just keep in mind, you need to work fast, as you're essentially on a timer. As garrottes stack up, it'll get overwhelming. You can't take your time on this fight.

[rgirty]

Thats what happened the garottes stacked up...

Ok, so who do you shackle? I don't think you can shackle the pally we had the baron? shackled.

Who else can you shackle? If we can shackle 2, fear one then take the 4th then the fear i believe we can take moroes. If its possible to shackle three i'll bring a shadow priest and we can just kill the mob the paladin would normally fear then one of the shackles before moving to moroes.

I don't think we could do the adds first as garotte stacks up. What about shackling 3, fearing one and everyone on moroes?

[Toolio]

In my guild we generally have 2 Priests to shackle and a Hunter to trap 1. We also have a tank and an OT for the adds. The Hutner MD's Moroes to the MT and lays a trap for an add. The Priests each keep 1 shackled and the raid DPS's down the first add. Then we move on to the trapped target, followed by 1 shackle. We leave 1 trapped/shackled the entire fight and run out and let it despawn after Moroes is dead or kill it depending on our mood.

As for Moroes, there's reall not much you can do about the Garrotes. It's completely random as to who gets hit but Hunters can avoid it every time if you FD when he vanishes and stay down until he reappears. As long as you have the healing and a good tank, the rest of the raid should have no trouble DPSing Moroes down.

Haha... This is PRECISELY what we did on Tuesday. Worked like a charm. Not a single death on Moroes.

[moopy]

We normally do it with one shackle, one trap and a pally to fear, works like a charm. We keep the prot warrior (who was being trapped) in a shackle when all the other adds are down and kill Moroes, and then go back and kill the add. We also call out on vent when someone gets the garotte, so they can get some lovin'- seems to do the trick.

This fight is mostly a co-ordination check. If everyone sticks to the kill order and doesn't break the CC, it's smooth. If someone gets it wrong, it can spin into chaos.

[rgirty]

We normally do it with one shackle, one trap and a pally to fear, works like a charm. We keep the prot warrior (who was being trapped) in a shackle when all the other adds are down and kill Moroes, and then go back and kill the add. We also call out on vent when someone gets the garotte, so they can get some lovin'- seems to do the trick.

This fight is mostly a co-ordination check. If everyone sticks to the kill order and doesn't break the CC, it's smooth. If someone gets it wrong, it can spin into chaos.

This was what we did, and it worked. Our two healers simply couldn't keep up with the garotte damage. We need 3 healers with our dps gear and tank/healing gear i don't beleive we can do it with any less. If we could replace 1 mage with a shadow priest for ve/vt and the prot pally in the raid with a holy we could get it done without any trouble. We would have the fight managed just like you describe moroes woudl get to 30-40% and the garottes would just be too much. The healers would have to decide who gets the heals the tank or the dps...either choice is bad to be sure.

This fight once again shows the IMBA of the dwarven racials I used stoneform every time we tried him and twice on more than one occasion. I still believe that stoneform/fearward/desperate prayer are some of if not the strongest racials a priest can have.

[moopy]

Stoneform is blissful, though I don't need it often, as I just feign death there.. Nice to be doubly safe.

Not sure why the garotte is getting too much to bear, have you considered three healers? We take three- usually one of them (the pally) is busy fearing for some of the fight though, and joins in healing at the end. If your DPS has good lv 115 blues or better (pre-kara gear can be great), then tank x2 healer x3 dps x5 can be a winning setup- maybe worth a try? The only semi-regular death we get is our crazy ToL druid, just because he seems to generate a lot of threat- but I suspect that this could be worked on (shades of the Vael or Razorgore fights in this respect).

(Our OT is a druid, and can help with DPS when she's not tanking anything)

[CorinthianSC]

Kill priority for us is as follows:

Shadow Priest (Can nuke your entire mana bar with one Mana Burn)
Holy Priest (Can heal Moroes and cleanse shackles)
Holy Paladin (Same as priest, but not as bad)
Ret Paladin
MS Warrior
Prot Warrior

We seem to always get the same adds, or dang close.

Shadow Priest
Holy priest/paladin
ret pally/prot warrior
MS Warrior

We do this, exactly.

Kill Shadow Priest
Shackle Holy Priest and Ret Paladin
Freeze Trap MS Warrior.

Once the first add is down, we kill the Holy Priest/Paladin, and the second shackle moves to the MS warrior.

Once second add is dead, you keep the last two shackled and kill Moroes. Then mop up the adds.

[rgirty]

Yep, we followed that and feared an add. I believe we had the holy paladin the shadow priest and ms warrior as well as another.

[Mathaus]

Remember, if you have pallies with you, their Blessing of Protection can remove a garrote. One less garrote to heal through...

[Valshenna]

As far as I know all of the adds can be CC'ed, although some of them are more dangerous than others. What we usually do is have 2 priests keep 2 mobs shackled at all times, and then use a palading and hunter to do a fear / ice combo. We usually kill a caster add right off the bat, and leave the others CCed until Moroes is down.

It takes some training, but the best way we've found to do it is to have each CCer use a DoT-Timer mod so they know exactly how long the shackle will stay up, and then recast before it ends. They also need to keep distance between themselves and the CCed mob, so that if it breaks early they'll have time to see the mob coming and reshackle before getting ganked.

For the pally/hunter combo, the hunter will let the pally fear the mob, and will then set an ice trap at the paladin's feet. When the fear breaks, the mob goes to the pally and gets iced. Both then move away and wait for the ice to break, and before the mob can get to the pally, it gets feared again. Rinse and repeat. This method requires minimal time for both the pally and the hunter, and allows them to focus much more on DPS / healing.

[shifttusk]

Remember, if you have pallies with you, their Blessing of Protection can remove a garrote. One less garrote to heal through...

Yep We BOP any healer that gets garoted.


Basic strat for my group =

MT+OT get up on moroes and start their agro mgt festival woppie
Shackle MS war and any paladins or combos of the 2
Paladin fears one. I (hunter) pick up #4 usualy shadowpriest or priest and kite him around while dps kills it. Then we pick up the feared (other caster) and kill it same way. They go down fast. Then we move to moroes. BOP any healer that gets garotted. Heal warriors through it.

We generaly allow dpsers to use their HS/POT and then die we usualy make an exception for the lock since his dps is sick.

Not a bad fight, keep vent chatter low, call out garotes. Keep CC breaking from happening. Reshackle on vanishes and you will be golden.

[rgirty]

I don't think our hunter is good enough to do that, it sounds like nearly the same strat, i'd like to run two shackles i think that would get the job done. Only leaving two adds to burn and then moroes.

[shifttusk]

I don't think our hunter is good enough to do that, it sounds like nearly the same strat, i'd like to run two shackles i think that would get the job done. Only leaving two adds to burn and then moroes.

If you have a warlock with COE up on the mob its a joke of an easy kite. Plus its not crucial for him to do a perfect job, if another dper gets agro on him the mob is generaly cooked by then. If anyone can get to file planet I can kinda make a little drawing of the path to take. I'm at work and cant get it hosted.

[rgirty]

No need for a drawing, i'll suggest that. kite better than box for sure, which mob was it that you kite?

[shifttusk]

No need for a drawing, i'll suggest that. kite better than box for sure, which mob was it that you kite?

We've been getting

MS war
Paly
Shadow Priest
Healer Priest

we shackle the ms and paly and i take first the shadow then the healer. Between me silencing/counterspell/kick we keep the casters moving. If your dps is going good one lap per mob will have it down. Make sure your hunter knows he needs agro and should pull with aimed->arcane->distract->concus and make sure he scatters the mob as she turns the first corner with him, unless you have all the mobs in the leading room cleared he has to cut the corner tight and will need a few secs more of lead time.

[rgirty]

Can't the paly break the shackle himself?

[liquidicem]

We generally use the same strat as others have mentioned. We keep 2 shackled the whole fight and 2 tanks on Moroes. The unshackled are dpsed down with 1 of them being feared until the first is dead.

We really try to limit the use of fear because: 1. It can reset the encounter if it is feared out of the room and 2. The fear last 20 seconds and the cooldown is 30 seconds. Usually the first mob is dead by the end of the fear (shadow priest or holy priest).

When chosing who to shackle we always keep the MS warrior and anyone who can dispel shackled (pallys mostly, the priest don't seem to dispell shackles). We chose this because we don't usually have a 3rd tank for the adds we just kite or I tank (fire mage :) )

The key to the fight really is moving on to Moroes as soon as possible to limit the garrot but it can be done with killing all 4 adds first. You just need a few lucky garrots and some decent dps.

[rgirty]

Thats where we erred in judgement. We should have shackled the pally and another, killed the SP and the other add.

Instead we were shackling one and killing 3.. 2 shackles woudl have worked I believe because the 2 caster mobs we would have killed whom were non shackled would have died very quickly leaving us only moroes i believe we could have downed him, even with garottes ticking. Myself being a dwarven priest does not need to worry about the garotte with a SS on me even if I die and we win, i could SS let the mobs reset, rez everyone and loot.

We'll get it next time.

[shifttusk]

<<Can't the paly break the shackle himself>> No he can break other CC if he is not CC'd thats why he goes into a nice ol shackle

<<Instead we were shackling one and killing 3>> Def CC 3 and kill 1 then pull a second if you are still in good shape. Basicaly if you can cc 3 the whole fight you're golden as well but its more mana intensive on CCers. You can run out with moroes dead and adds up and still get your loot once they reset.

Like you said you will get it. You're asking Q's and learning thats all thats needed... well that and once again

all you need is shifttusk!!

[rgirty]

I've seen the fight now, and we were doing everything right other than the additional shackle. two shackles and a box, then fear out of the box or kill as the first should be down with two tanks on moroes, bop the garrotte we should be in good shape.

Thanks all, we were 90% on the right track but those few tips will put us over the edge :D

[burninspear]

We are having lots of trouble with that fight as well - still have not beat him.

We do not have a raiding pally in the guild yet, (horde). It seems to me that the garrotte kills us - the fight goes so long that our healers run out of mana before Moroes is even at 25%.

I just had a thought, what if I dropped my Stoneclaw Totem (the high aggro one) every time Moroes vanishes? Do you think he might target it with the garrotte?

[rgirty]

We are having lots of trouble with that fight as well - still have not beat him.

We do not have a raiding pally in the guild yet, (horde). It seems to me that the garrotte kills us - the fight goes so long that our healers run out of mana before Moroes is even at 25%.

I just had a thought, what if I dropped my Stoneclaw Totem (the high aggro one) every time Moroes vanishes? Do you think he might target it with the garrotte?

Thats the same thing that happens to us, i think either of us can beat it with

A. More DPS
b. More healing.

We didn't have teh right CC applied, when we do we'll be on moroes longer which essentially means more dps on moroes.

[Blueblud]

Sounds like you need to get a better pally.

[rgirty]

I knew it wasn't going to be good when he said he had every point in prot and couldn't heal.

[burninspear]

Sounds like you need to get a better pally.

For Rgirty ^

For my guild we will take any pally... but then maybe he would bump me, (one of our healing shammies) out :sad:

Maybe I will ask the shaman forum about Stoneclaw on Moroes.

[rgirty]

For Rgirty ^

For my guild we will take any pally... but then maybe he would bump me, (one of our healing shammies) out :sad:

Maybe I will ask the shaman forum about Stoneclaw on Moroes.

Not this pally, he wanted to tank it.

[Pallas]

We are lucky on Moroes with our group set up. Currently, we have no pallies, but do have 3 priests in the raid. We shackle 3, have our dps hammer down one add at a time, leaving the warrior up until after Moroes is down.

One thing that helps us is all the renews we can put on players that are garotted. Plus there are 3 dwarves, a hunter and frost mage, so half of our raid can get rid of the garrottes immediately and we don't have to heal through it unless Stoneform/Ice Block is on cool down.

The fight is easy for us now, but it took a bit for everyone to get onto the same page.

I recommed taking down three adds, as it then lets your healers concentrate on just healing (while still keeping one shackled).

[rgirty]

We are lucky on Moroes with our group set up. Currently, we have no pallies, but do have 3 priests in the raid. We shackle 3, have our dps hammer down one add at a time, leaving the warrior up until after Moroes is down.

One thing that helps us is all the renews we can put on players that are garotted. Plus there are 3 dwarves, a hunter and frost mage, so half of our raid can get rid of the garrottes immediately and we don't have to heal through it unless Stoneform/Ice Block is on cool down.

The fight is easy for us now, but it took a bit for everyone to get onto the same page.

I recommed taking down three adds, as it then lets your healers concentrate on just healing (while still keeping one shackled).

Good post, but the fact that only 6 people can suffer a garotte out of your 10 means you don't face the same factor as others.

THe problem seems to be that so many people suffer from it, they die and dps is reduced so the fight cannot be won.

OR healers heal them and run out of mana.

If you had 5-7 dwarves the fight would be trivial, but no one (save me) seems to roll dwarves.

[WatcherZero]

One thing we do is have a offtank get as much aggro as possible on Moroes, e.g. warrior or druid. This person will then recive about 75% of the garrotes.

[Shellar]

Our technique goes as follows:

MS Warrior, Holy Paladin: Keep shackled for the entire fight.

Holy Priest, Shadow Priest: Kill. If we get both, keep Shadow Priest trapped/stunned while we kill the Holy one, then finish her off, as well.

Prot Warrior, Retri Paladin: Tank - a feral OT can easily keep aggro on two adds while staying #2 on Moroes. They do rather pitiful DPS, certainly less than the damage inflicted by Garottes and Moroes during the extra minute that we would spend killing them.

[burninspear]

Well we downed him last night - finally.

I tired the 'drop the Stoneclaw' when he vanished trick and I have never seen this before, (20 + attempts) but many times - actually almost 50% - he came out of vanish without garrotting anyone - just coincidence?

Most likely but /cheer - got my Belt of the Gale Force http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=28567&locale=enUS;source=live

[lofta]

CC three adds (two will be CC'd until Moroes is dead)
Offtank tanks the other add and Moroes to stay #2 on Moroes threat list.
Raid nukes this add.
Then offtank repeats this for one more add.
Then raid nukes Moroes.
Then pick off the remaining adds one at a time.

[Telmar]

CC three adds (two will be CC'd until Moroes is dead)
Offtank tanks the other add and Moroes to stay #2 on Moroes threat list.
Raid nukes this add.
Then offtank repeats this for one more add.
Then raid nukes Moroes.
Then pick off the remaining adds one at a time.

Why make it this difficult for yourself?

If you kill all the adds before moroes, you only have one mob to worry about.

[lofta]

It's not more difficult. We have 2 shackles and a hunter.

In fact, the longer you take nuking 2 more adds (esp the Warrs and Paladins) before Moroes is down, the more garrotes you will have, and the more chance one of the adds will break a CC or come after your squishies. :afro:

[earindur]

or easier yet,

Nuke down two adds, kill moroes, then run out and reset... stupid mobs.

[Telmar]

It's not more difficult. We have 2 shackles and a hunter.

In fact, the longer you take nuking 2 more adds (esp the Warrs and Paladins) before Moroes is down, the more garrotes you will have, and the more chance one of the adds will break a CC or come after your squishies. :afro:

Maybe we're looking at this from slightly different guild perspectives, but you can happily nuke down all the adds before his 3rd vanish rather than 2 before his 2nd. One more garrote uses less mana to heal than reapplying shackles throughout the entire fight... Mana conservation wise, it is more difficult.

Im not following how killing all the adds INCREASES the chances that one will break CC either?

[lofta]

You and me just seem to be on completely different wavelengths.

Shackle mana? I don't need to pot during Moroes.

[rgirty]

You and me just seem to be on completely different wavelengths.

Shackle mana? I don't need to pot during Moroes.

How many healers do you bring to moroes?

[Telmar]

Then whats the problem with making the fight more controlled? If you have no mana issues with healing, then you're better off removing the random elements of the fight and ensuring you dont get a CC break early and kill anyone.

So you dont need to pot, well its hardly surprising, if you bring a shadow priest for your 2nd shackle (which i assume you do, as you advocate not taking more than 3 healers in another thread). For those groups without the luxury of a mana battery, then its probably wise to use the most controlled tactic possible.

[lofta]

3: holy priest, holy paladin, resto shaman - shadow priest is imba useful for regen, mana tide not bad, either

Don't most raids have a shadow priest? You're missing one of the most useful raid slots for boss fights without one. Shadow priest and paladin grouped is just insane.

[rgirty]

3: priest, paladin, resto shaman - shadow priest is imba useful for regen, mana tide not bad, either

Thats why you can do this.

My raid:

1. Holy Priest
1. Resto Druid

0 shamans, or paladins.

Different group makeup means different tactics, PoTs are definitely in order if you don't have 2 mana batteries and 3 people to handle garrotte.

[Telmar]

3: holy priest, holy paladin, resto shaman - shadow priest is imba useful for regen, mana tide not bad, either

Don't most raids have a shadow priest? You're missing one of the most useful raid slots for boss fights without one. Shadow priest and paladin grouped is just insane.

In a ten man?

We're a raiding guild, with 2 shadow priests (all you need for 25 man raids), we currently field 3 full kara clears a week. That means a) your group comps arent going to be optimal, b) you aint always going to have unlimited mana.

Hence me suggesting a strategy that works for any kara group, rather than yours, which from your posts on other threads, looks to be swapped around between bosses so that you have the perfect raid group for each boss in what is essentially an oversized UBRS.

[lofta]

Untrue, we have core members that includes a very good geared Shadow Priest - the rest swap in/out as they have to go eat / go out / go bed

[rgirty]

I wish my guild had all those players to choose from, we have to do our best with 2 healers. One being a resto druid with +800 healing.

[lofta]

Recruit one more active healer and things will ease up a lot, I would say.
Also, gear up the drood from 5 man guild runs.

[rgirty]

My guild is based on playtimes being between 8:30pm and 2:00am server.

We are made up of people who are married/have kids/jobs/lives. Memorial day weekend was a virtual ghost town with our guild.

The druid took a break from writing his small business plan to come to the raid.

We've had several more "active" players leave the guild because basically we all play at almost the exact same time. Many of us have responsibilities other than children that require their attention.

Also our guild is made up of about 40% women, all but 1 being a real life wife to a guild mate.

In our 10 man raid last night we had people from all walks of life.

The average age is in the upper 20's, we have a hard time recruiting the younger crowd.

[lofta]

Sounds like a unique and nice guild!

How about posting a recruit thread on womengamers.com?

[earindur]

My guild is based on playtimes being between 8:30pm and 2:00am server.

We are made up of people who are married/have kids/jobs/lives. Memorial day weekend was a virtual ghost town with our guild.

The druid took a break from writing his small business plan to come to the raid.

We've had several more "active" players leave the guild because basically we all play at almost the exact same time. Many of us have responsibilities other than children that require their attention.

Also our guild is made up of about 40% women, all but 1 being a real life wife to a guild mate.

In our 10 man raid last night we had people from all walks of life.

The average age is in the upper 20's, we have a hard time recruiting the younger crowd.

you are in a very similar guild to me, we struggled for ages with recruiting but we finally have a fair few players.

if you want to chat about anything or pick my brains feel free to pm me. Hopefully i can help you.

[rgirty]

you are in a very similar guild to me, we struggled for ages with recruiting but we finally have a fair few players.

if you want to chat about anything or pick my brains feel free to pm me. Hopefully i can help you.

We have a lot of great players, just lack healers and tanks like most every guild in wow. We have a paladin that should be attuned in the next day or so that will really help. I think we reject quite a few people too, I think we're a bunch of old "get off my lawn you dang fool kids" type of people LOL.

[ocellaris]

I wish my guild had all those players to choose from, we have to do our best with 2 healers. One being a resto druid with +800 healing.

I hope that is a typo, because +800 healing is basically crap, and worse than what someone could get with just quest reward items if they pay attention. With gear that bad, your people should likely spend more time farming 5 mans for helpful gear and take another attempt at Kara after a few straight nights of gearing up in 5 mans.

[rgirty]

I hope that is a typo, because +800 healing is basically crap, and worse than what someone could get with just quest reward items if they pay attention. With gear that bad, your people should likely spend more time farming 5 mans for helpful gear and take another attempt at Kara after a few straight nights of gearing up in 5 mans.

nope, its not a typo. We were the only two healers in the raid. I try to get him to gear up he just does not have that much playtime.

That being said, we got attumen down and moroes to about 40% before the garrottes started outpacing our healing.

I had about 190mp5 and 1850+heal when full on buffed before each boss fight.

Food/pots/oils every thing i could put on.

[ocellaris]

Without trying to sugar coat it, I am just going to say its almost impossible to get Moroes down with 1.5 healers (which is basically what you have there). I am sure you could do it with some luck, consumables, and huge repair bills, however its not going to be smooth or repeatable. Then you would hit another brick wall at Opera or Maiden of Virtue.

[rgirty]

Yes, and I told 9 people that. But when you have multiple people believing that their char is superhuman and they can pwn (many of them had never seen moroes) they simply won't listen.

It started like this:

"RAAWR, attunmen down easy, lets get moroes!"
8 other people *RAAWR*

Me: We only have 2 healers, myself and xx druid. No offense to mr. druid but his gear isn't that great (being nice about it).

Raid: We have DPS! We have 2 tanks!

Me: You are aware that he has 4 adds? We have 1 shackle?

Raid: WE HAVE DPS!!111

Me: ok then.

After the first run out and reset "whats this dot I have, someone remove it please!"

Me: you will die, it lasts 5 minutes.

Them: WHAT!?

Me: yes, thats why we failed. Even if cc was perfect that is the problem.

Raid in unison: "what? it was going well"

Me: you have 2 healers, you have 1 shackle. If you keep one add boxed, and one add mage kited while one is shackled with another being killed, at that point you can take on moroes. OR you can choose to kill either 1 of the adds, boxed or kited then do moroes. You can actually choose to kill both if you like, and just leave the shackle.

If we do this, it really stretches the fight out that means more garrottes for you folks. I'm a dwarf so every 3 minutes I can stoneform out of it but most of you... well i think all of you but the rogues have no recourse.

We really have an uphill battle, if we keep 3 adds cc'd that means my mana is very taxed healing the tanks + the shackle and the guy trying to box as well as the guy trying to kite should they take damage. Don't forget i have to renew everyone who gets the garotte.

Unless we have 1 more shackle, OR a paladin that can fear one of these mobs as well as bubble out of garotte we are going to have trouble. The garrotte simply outruns the healing, there comes a point in which you only have so much mana as a healer you can pick the tanks or the dps to heal. Eventually enough dps dies that you can't win the fight. That is why we got him to 40ish when I went LoM and we had to reset.

Raid: We'll DPS harder!

Me: ok, we'll try it again.

A few tries later, hmm...seems we don't have enough healing and people start looking in my direction.

Me: Thats what I was saying.

Them: Hmm..

I think when the raid was over they felt like I couldn't heal well enough. Not sure what to tell them really. Hopefully we'll have the paladin to take this weekend and we can win the moroes encounter.

[DraedynLei]

That sucks rgirty but some people only learn things the hard way. Good luck with recruitment and gearing up your guys. It's hard when not everyone has a lot of time. We've been trying for a month to recruit enough healers for Gruul's.

[rgirty]

Gruul is like the darth vader of wow for my guild, LOL there is no way we could ever defeat him.

[ocellaris]

Yes, and I told 9 people that. But when you have multiple people believing that their char is superhuman and they can pwn (many of them had never seen moroes) they simply won't listen.

People listen when you disband the raid. Raids with new guilds rarely work if they are a democracy, once people fall into an established order of command things go better :)

[rgirty]

People listen when you disband the raid. Raids with new guilds rarely work if they are a democracy, once people fall into an established order of command things go better :)

Showing is better than telling sometime.

[ocellaris]

Showing is better than telling sometime.

Not always. People can quickly get frustrated and lose a lot of momentum. My guild normally only rolls up on new encounters prepared and ready to down the bosses. If we know we do not have the raid for something, we do not go. We have never gone and pushed a wipefest just so show people what happens with a bad group makeup. Its different for each guild and set of players. Sounds like you have a good idea of what is going on some hopefully soon you will get some more people and get through Kara.

[rgirty]

Not always. People can quickly get frustrated and lose a lot of momentum. My guild normally only rolls up on new encounters prepared and ready to down the bosses. If we know we do not have the raid for something, we do not go. We have never gone and pushed a wipefest just so show people what happens with a bad group makeup. Its different for each guild and set of players. Sounds like you have a good idea of what is going on some hopefully soon you will get some more people and get through Kara.

I was glad we did when it was over, several people realized that you have to have balance to win some of the encounters. People finally started thinking about that rather than DPS!111!!

[DraedynLei]

We have never gone and pushed a wipefest just so show people what happens with a bad group makeup.

Yeah but sometimes the wipefests just happen spontaneously. Stupid prince.

[Inocs]

Isn't the paladin supposed to do Blessing of Protection on the garroted people as well?

This fight can be done in a lot of ways but this is the tactic that we've used twice now.
The key is the adds and how fast you can take them down to then go for moroes. You have to know what adds dispells shackles and what adds hits hardest etc.
Raid setup:
2 Warriors (tanks)
1 Resto Druid
2 Shamans 1 Resto and 1 Elemental
2 Rogues
2 Priests 1 Shadow and 1 Holy (me :cool: )
1 Warlock

As you can see, no hunter, no paladin and no 3rd tank for the adds. We have only 2 shackles so 2 adds will be able to be shackled.
The adds are 4 of 8 possible:
Baron Rafe Dreuger - Retribution Paladin *Dispells shackle*
Baroness Dorothea Milstipe - Shadow Priest *Dispells shackle* mana burns
Lady Catriona Von'Indi - Holy Priest *Dispells shackle* heals
Lady Keira Berrybuck - Holy Paladin *Dispells shackle* heals
Lord Crispin Ference - Protection Warrior
Lord Robin Daris - Mortal Strike Warrior *hits like a train*

Last night we got MS warrior, Holy Priest, Retri Pala and Prot Warrior.
Holy priest went down first, pretty much stunlocked by the rogues. The retri pala and MS warrior was shackled since the paladin dispells shackles and can do a lot of harm to the raid and MS warrior was shackled since he hits hard as hell. Usually if he is in the addpack we keep him shackled the entire fight since he can easily wipe the raid.

During the entire fight me and the shadow priest were keeping our targets shackled. The druid was keeping up the garroted players in tree form, I helped him a little with renews and prayer of mending. The shaman kept both tanks up.

This fight, as many other fights, is all about control. But in my opinion, 2 healers is not enough, especially if one of them is not a paladin since he can use BoP on the garroted player which helps a LOT.

Anyways, I wish you guys good luck! he's not that hard when you've finally downed him, just takes some practice and multittasking :wink:

[lofta]

Try having the tank and offtank tank one add each.

[ocellaris]

Oddly enough, ended up doing Moroes last night with just a Priest and a Druid (me) for healers. No Shadow Priest, no Paladins, no Shaman in the raid.

[rgirty]

We'll try it tonight again, with three tanks i believe maybe we can shackle one, burn one down kite one, OT one and burn down moroes.

[ocellaris]

You really do not want to just OT one the whole time without a third healer, once that OT gets the Garrote, they are taking a lot of damage. Also, that tank ends up doing 0 damage to Moroes so you lose a lot of DPS.

[rgirty]

Recommend a way for this group to down him:

Holy priest: - Me
Resto druid (only +800 heal)
Prot warrior #1
Prot warrior #2
Rogue
Rogue
Mage
Mage
Hunter
Enhancement Shaman

1 dwarf, and thats me.

[liquidicem]

Recommend a way for this group to down him:

Holy priest: - Me
Resto druid (only +800 heal)
Prot warrior #1
Prot warrior #2
Rogue
Rogue
Mage
Mage
Hunter
Enhancement Shaman

1 dwarf, and thats me.

Both tank on Moroes. Shackle the worst add you get (MS Warrior or Ret Pally usually). Chain trap another add. Burn down the other 2 adds as fast as possible with the rogue/shammy tanking/stun locking them (these should go down super fast if you get the priest with 2 rogues on them). Then burn Moroes down.

It is not going to be an easy fight with only 2 healers and no pallys but I done it with worse group setups.

You might even want the shammy to help heal until the adds are down and as needed with the garrote.

[rgirty]

Both tank on Moroes. Shackle the worst add you get (MS Warrior or Ret Pally usually). Chain trap another add. Burn down the other 2 adds as fast as possible with the rogue/shammy tanking/stun locking them (these should go down super fast if you get the priest with 2 rogues on them). Then burn Moroes down.

It is not going to be an easy fight with only 2 healers and no pallys but I done it with worse group setups.

You might even want the shammy to help heal until the adds are down and as needed with the garrote.

So you are suggesting to box one add and shackle one add the entire fight, only taking down two adds using rogue/shaman tanking to do so?

This does mean we have more dps as all dps classes can focus on both adds.

[YamahaGuy]

Geez, I guess my group nearly cheats.

We have two dwarf healdins usually. BoP and stoneform for the win.

And we take 3 healers (combination of different classes) to every boss. Plus a shadowpriest for mana regen.

@rgirty - I dunno about that 800ish bonus healing. A lot of people step foot in kara for the first time with well over 1100; from hard work grinding 5 man instances, reputation items like the gavel of pure light, enchantments, crafted items / tailoring / gems and other options.

But, I guess I know a lot of people (just an "on the other hand" comment) who hit 70, did a few instances and shortcutted key fragments, then went to kara way undergeared.

Not implying thats the case though.

[rgirty]

Geez, I guess my group nearly cheats.

We have two dwarf healdins usually. BoP and stoneform for the win.

And we take 3 healers (combination of different classes) to every boss. Plus a shadowpriest for mana regen.

@rgirty - I dunno about that 800ish bonus healing. A lot of people step foot in kara for the first time with well over 1100; from hard work grinding 5 man instances, reputation items like the gavel of pure light, enchantments, crafted items / tailoring / gems and other options.

But, I guess I know a lot of people (just an "on the other hand" comment) who hit 70, did a few instances and shortcutted key fragments, then went to kara way undergeared.

Not implying thats the case though.

Getting into kara with myself and the druid healing, is better than not getting in kara at all. At least we can down one boss and look at anohter if we choose, get some rep along the way.

We have a paladin who will be attuned very soon and ready to go, that should help some.

[ocellaris]

Getting into kara with myself and the druid healing, is better than not getting in kara at all. At least we can down one boss and look at anohter if we choose, get some rep along the way.

We have a paladin who will be attuned very soon and ready to go, that should help some.

You seem fairly nice and well spoken, and a lot of people are looking for raid spots with nice people who want to work together. Honestly, I would say try finding a new healer in the public chat channels or work on that Paladin for a night, and go to Kara tomorrow. With the Paladin, you, and the Druid, you can clear Maiden fairly easy and likely do the Opera as well this week.

[rgirty]

We have a hard time recruting and lost a member last night, we are a small guild i'll explain why we have issues.

1. 90% of our players play in a very small time window 8pm server until 2 am server. Any other time you are lucky to see 2-3 people online. We all work, have kids. From 8-2 you might see 30+ on but not at other times.

2. We are the "get off my lawn" type. A guy left the guild last night because we asked him not to make penis jokes. We don't allow that stuff, a lot of us have kids that play/watch us play.

3. We are a fairly new guild, every guild on the server is begging for healing.

I believe we are going to make an alliance with another guild, about the same size and strategy as our own. Use GeM to make raid events and try that. We might even be able to get two groups. DPS people are not happy. 2 tanks, 3 healers means only 5 dps spots and we are overloaded with dps. They know this however, and are very good about setting out etc etc.

[YamahaGuy]

1. 90% of our players play in a very small time window 8pm server until 2 am server. Any other time you are lucky to see 2-3 people online. We all work, have kids. From 8-2 you might see 30+ on but not at other times.

Challenging indeed. We have people who cant start until X time, or have to leave at Y time, or can only play on certain days. Some days we have 5 healers and two get miffed at sitting out. Other days we have 2 and don't go because of it. Good scheduling and working on times / days helps with it a lot. Thats a good plan.


2. We are the "get off my lawn" type. A guy left the guild last night because we asked him not to make penis jokes. We don't allow that stuff, a lot of us have kids that play/watch us play.

Let em go if he doesnt fit in anyway. We had a rogue leave last night because he always insited on going to Curator. He wanted his gloves. A) Healadins are first and B) we take one extra melee; the bolt soaker. Which is my new warrior for his plate pants if they drop. So he ninja left. (shrug) and Im not much concerned.


3. We are a fairly new guild, every guild on the server is begging for healing.

Aint that the truth. Our larger guilds on the server have started competing for them. Bribary with T4 items they'll hand to a warrior anyway. Poaching from other guilds with promises of greener grass. It isnt pretty. And a lot of people have been getting T4 from various guilds then x-fering off the server with it.

[rgirty]

Challenging indeed. We have people who cant start until X time, or have to leave at Y time, or can only play on certain days. Some days we have 5 healers and two get miffed at sitting out. Other days we have 2 and don't go because of it. Good scheduling and working on times / days helps with it a lot. Thats a good plan.



Let em go if he doesnt fit in anyway. We had a rogue leave last night because he always insited on going to Curator. He wanted his gloves. A) Healadins are first and B) we take one extra melee; the bolt soaker. Which is my new warrior for his plate pants if they drop. So he ninja left. (shrug) and Im not much concerned.



Aint that the truth. Our larger guilds on the server have started competing for them. Bribary with T4 items they'll hand to a warrior anyway. Poaching from other guilds with promises of greener grass. It isnt pretty. And a lot of people have been getting T4 from various guilds then x-fering off the server with it.

Our guild full of people isn't purple based, which helps a lot. But we have very little to offer to a healer.

One of the rogues took it upon himself to level a paladin, we all helped as much as we could and now he's 70 and nearly attuned. Teamwork there.

[YamahaGuy]

Lately it seems like holy priests are the hardest healers to find. Most all of better holy priests I know have

A) Gotten burnt out and rerolled
B) Went shadow
C) Are part of the "I quit my holy priest because lawladins and trees can heal too and my 31 point talent is useless" campaign.

Almost a dying breed. We an awesome holy priest; but she has a life. We have another who is on during the most random, radical times of day .... never during actual 'raid' time.

[ecanem]

Man, maybe I need to look harder because I am currently in a guild running kara from 8-11 ish EST(server time) on bloodhoof but I don't get on till around 10:00-10:30 because of work and life and yet I am keyed for kara and geared to offtank well (feral druid: 25k armor 14.5k health unbuffed) or I would even be willing to DPS or even respec to resto and get more +healing (currently just above 800 but thats without any talents) and all of this is JUST so I can run kara and get the experience of killing the big bosses. I don't care as much about loot as other might, I don't have time time to accumulate tons of DKP, I just want to experience kara, I want to do what I have been reading about.

Sadly, its not looking too great just yet :(

[rgirty]

Man, maybe I need to look harder because I am currently in a guild running kara from 8-11 ish EST(server time) on bloodhoof but I don't get on till around 10:00-10:30 because of work and life and yet I am keyed for kara and geared to offtank well (feral druid: 25k armor 14.5k health unbuffed) or I would even be willing to DPS or even respec to resto and get more +healing (currently just above 800 but thats without any talents) and all of this is JUST so I can run kara and get the experience of killing the big bosses. I don't care as much about loot as other might, I don't have time time to accumulate tons of DKP, I just want to experience kara, I want to do what I have been reading about.

Sadly, its not looking too great just yet :(

Thats about what time we start, 10ish and could use more off tanks or people willing to spec resto. Too bad everyone pleays on all diff servers. 10 central is when we start, 10-30.

[Beruen]

2. We are the "get off my lawn" type. A guy left the guild last night because we asked him not to make penis jokes. We don't allow that stuff, a lot of us have kids that play/watch us play.

We've lost at least one person for the same reason. Heck, should have pointed him at the guild who's recruiting line was something like "Tired of watching your language or not doing what you really want just because someone said no? Join us. No rules." If ever I wanted a /ignoreguild command, that was it :grin:

[ecanem]

Thats about what time we start, 10ish and could use more off tanks or people willing to spec resto. Too bad everyone pleays on all diff servers. 10 central is when we start, 10-30.

That is the type of guild im looking for or at least to group with a few times! I know most EST guilds will start around 8, a guild like yours that starts at 10 Central would mean that I would come on right now and start the raid.

Maybe I will find a guild who could use my help eventually.

[liquidicem]

So you are suggesting to box one add and shackle one add the entire fight, only taking down two adds using rogue/shaman tanking to do so?

This does mean we have more dps as all dps classes can focus on both adds.

That is exactly what I'm suggesting. Especially when learning this fight and not having a lot of gear, it is important to get Moroes down before the garrote get out of control. Keeping as many adds as possible CC'd until Moroes is dead helps a lot. On our first kill we stack 3 priests in the raid and kept 3 adds shackled the whole fight.

Just make sure all dps focuses on 1 add at a time, the most dangeous (usually the shadow priest if you get it). And make sure they are on top of the spell interrupts. You can't afford to have an add get a mana burn or heal off. Let them use their damage spell like mind flay or holy fire, but interrupt the dangerous ones.

You really don't need to "tank" the adds. They go down pretty quick. I play a fire mage and the current dps target is usually aggro'd on me but with enough stunning and slowing I can kite it around or burn it down before it can do too much damage.

I think this is a really fun fight with some nice randomness to it. I remeber when it seemed really hard but now its just fun.

[Pallas]

That is the type of guild im looking for or at least to group with a few times! I know most EST guilds will start around 8, a guild like yours that starts at 10 Central would mean that I would come on right now and start the raid.

Maybe I will find a guild who could use my help eventually.

This is something I just went through with my guild. I'm the GM and play on Kargath. It's in the EST and I live in the MST (2 hrs behind). To raid at 8pm server, meant that I was on at 6pm, or more likely 5:30pm to start.

I have a couple small kids and now that it's summer, there is so much more to do than sit in front of a computer before they go to bed.

Anyway, we were trying to start up a second Kara group, so I figured, why not do one a few hours later server time. So we planned to start at 10pm (8pm my time). It can be surprising how many people like the new time. Those who couldn't get on earlier now have a place to raid.

Only issue is that we just started this week and Kargath has been crashing nightly for two weeks since they upgraded the hardware.

Casual players who want to raid a couple times a week are out there.....it's just REALLY hard to find them.

[ecanem]

This is something I just went through with my guild. I'm the GM and play on Kargath. It's in the EST and I live in the MST (2 hrs behind). To raid at 8pm server, meant that I was on at 6pm, or more likely 5:30pm to start.

I have a couple small kids and now that it's summer, there is so much more to do than sit in front of a computer before they go to bed.

Anyway, we were trying to start up a second Kara group, so I figured, why not do one a few hours later server time. So we planned to start at 10pm (8pm my time). It can be surprising how many people like the new time. Those who couldn't get on earlier now have a place to raid.

Only issue is that we just started this week and Kargath has been crashing nightly for two weeks since they upgraded the hardware.

Casual players who want to raid a couple times a week are out there.....it's just REALLY hard to find them.

Yep, maybe I will make a post in our forum to see if anyone would be willing to do a later kara run. Maybe I will just start a new guild lol, I don't need all of that pressure though, I just want to run kara, I have the key, I just want to try it out.

I am getting a little bored with tanking now so I am almost thinking of getting more resto gear and healing for a week or two to practice that. I remember when I was the healer of a group in lower levels it was exciting, as a tank its like, "ok focus on this guy and watch for others to break cc and make sure the healer is safe" usually its just 1 after the next.

[rgirty]

Moroes down, 1 shot after the reset. Added a hunter to the raid and removed one of the two mages (the second mage had other obligations). We were also much more fortunate on the makeup of his adds.

Maiden down to 50% on the first attempt, not bad as most of our raiders had never experienced the encounter.

Productive night overall, 1 trash epic and 4 epics from bosses. All good drops and used to upgrade several people and no surprise to me replaced greens for some.

Now, i'll make a Maiden!! thread.

Without the advice of this thread, and others here we would not have had success last night. The tips here and how other people are winning the encounter ultimately led to our victory.

The one thing that we did that I had not read about anyone else trying was a warlock kite. We had a warlock kite the prot warrior with curse of exhaustion. We downed that mob last leaving only the shackled add before we started on moroes. The advantage for us with that strategy was that 100% of dps could focus on moroes, no adds being kited/feared/frozen also the add being kited by the lock as only around 50% health from all the dot rot by the time we got to him.

Now, for the maiden.

[Pallas]

Grats on that.

One thing we do is that even with 2 available shackles, we take down three adds first, then Moroes, then the last add.

I find it much easier for healing if only one of our priests has to pay attention to the shackles. Helps that our dps can take them down so fast though.