why do I keep dieing?

[SLUGFly]

I don't get it... Do I just suck? I'm a 62 mage and whenever taking on a hunter or a warlock I get dead in the same amount of time it would take me to cast a single frostbolt! Is this normal or am I horribly underskilled for my level?

[Aerath]

Wrong choice of targets, probably lack of understanding of how to counter them vs decent opponents.

[Lalaust]

Learn2Counter

Dooh!

[Tanitha]

And here I thought this was going to be a thread about tailoring and how it applies to PvP. Or would that be Engineering? Anyway ... enough about dieing...

SLUG, Hunters and Warlocks are deadly in PvP and as a Mage you are probably highly specced for Intelligence and not so highly for Stamina, while the Warlock would be putting Stamina and +Damage first. They would have deep health pools (which doubles as mana) while yours might not quite be there.

The best way to win against a Warlock is to prevent them from controlling the fight. That's what we're all about - we're going to Fear you around and make sure you're playing the battle the way we want you to play it. But, I learned to my dismay the pain that Counterspelll can cause a Warlock. You might want to put that on a decent macro so you can have:

/stopcasting
/cast Counterspell

to get it off that little bit faster when you notice them opening a lengthy cast. However, most of a Warlocks first spells will be Instants, I don't know if you can even Counterspell those, but the idea is there. I've found that a good UI layout (Big buttons for important spells) as well as an accessible set of hotkeys make a world of difference in a PvP scenario.

What I would also recommend is that you grab a combat log addon, like ChatLog (From WowAce) and set that to record your battles to file. Then, whenever you've had an experience like above you can open up the log and review it, check to see what they cast and work out counter strategies.

[Xmcdaniel]

I don't get it... Do I just suck? I'm a 62 mage and whenever taking on a hunter or a warlock I get dead in the same amount of time it would take me to cast a single frostbolt! Is this normal or am I horribly underskilled for my level?

Hunters and Locks are the bane of every mages existence...you are not alone.

[earindur]

interupt us, lots, and burst us down quickly.

(warlock btw)

[Twoflower]

warlocks are hard indeed. Try to counterspell theyr shadowtree and KEEP AT MAX DISTANCE all the time. kite them. theyr fear has only a 20 yard range while your fireball has a 40 yard range.

hunters are easy. just keep in theyr deathzone ( farer than 5 yards so they can not melee you, but closer than 8 yards so they cannot shoot at you ) and finish them whit whatever spell you like. Instant casts preferred. And freeze them in place at the right time.

Both fights are alot about distance and keeping distance.

Warlocks are hard for a mage, hunters are cake.

[Gisharr]

I must suck then because hunters are not cake for me. I blink into dead zone, cast an instant or two, maybe frost nova, and BAM scatter shot and ice trapped. Now hunter is back at max range and opens on me with an aimed shot. Or, if the hunter is BM he'll just go red and I run.

[galermon]

I am with Gisharr on this one. Locks I really don't have a complaint on, I can kill them as long as they don't have their fel doggy out, but I usually die from their DoTs right after.

But a hunter? I have run into a couple of mages now that have told me how easy it is to kill a hunter. They have told me the same strat to use to kill them "easily". I have PvPed extensively with multiple classes in every BG. Of course I have killed many hunters as a mage, but killing a good player (hunter). I have always gotten my ass handed to me. I know all about the dead zone...doesn't help. I know PvP....it's about control, burst damage, mobility, and instant casts. It's about understanding your opponents. But again, every time I face a good player (hunter) it's damn near impossible. This is on a one vs one heads up, I know he is there, he know's I am there scenario.

[murderousmic]

I got flying mount jumped by a 70 mage on my 66 Hunter this weekend and counter-ganked him. If mages screw up they will get killed.

Also, I dueled a 70 mage this weekend and lost every time, badly.

Now fair fight, Hunter vs Mage same level, similarly well-geared I think the hunter has the edge, or has an easier time winning while the mage will have to play a more complete fight without mistakes than the hunter.

[Xmcdaniel]

warlocks are hard indeed. Try to counterspell theyr shadowtree and KEEP AT MAX DISTANCE all the time. kite them. theyr fear has only a 20 yard range while your fireball has a 40 yard range.

hunters are easy. just keep in theyr deathzone ( farer than 5 yards so they can not melee you, but closer than 8 yards so they cannot shoot at you ) and finish them whit whatever spell you like. Instant casts preferred. And freeze them in place at the right time.

Both fights are alot about distance and keeping distance.

Warlocks are hard for a mage, hunters are cake.

Hunters are not cake if they are any good. They'll silencing shot you, concussive shot you, and you are a dead mage. If I can actually get into their deadzone without losing 3/4 of my HP then I can usually win, but it's not as easy as you are making it out to be.

In a 1 on 1 duel where you know the hunter is coming is another thing altogether. I can destroy a hunter in that type of fight/environment. But in a BG (where I do all of my high level PvP ATM), Hunters will come out of nowwhere and it's over in 5-6 seconds before you can even react.

I must suck then because hunters are not cake for me. I blink into dead zone, cast an instant or two, maybe frost nova, and BAM scatter shot and ice trapped. Now hunter is back at max range and opens on me with an aimed shot. Or, if the hunter is BM he'll just go red and I run.

Above is another good example of what a decent hunter will do to a mage.

[xDarkDrifterx]

Hunters and Locks are the bane of every mages existence...you are not alone.

Indeed, my arrows usually slice through mages cloth like butter.

Sting, conc, multi, arcane, silence, arcane, then something to finish them with. Best defence is to mana shield asap and if you are able to cast your nukes and you get a crit twice, I may be dead :grin:

[Xmcdaniel]

Indeed, my arrows usually slice through mages cloth like butter.

Sting, conc, multi, arcane, silence, arcane, then something to finish them with. Best defence is to mana shield asap and if you are able to cast your nukes and you get a crit twice, I may be dead :grin:

LOL...that is if I have any mana left from my mana shield, and the chance of landing two crits in a row on high damage spells that require casting time while you and your pet chew away at my HP is just ridiculously low. I'm not the best PvP mage by a long way, so maybe I'm not the one that should be talking strategy. But I've tried all the said strategies and more often than not, if even one small negative variable comes into play they don't work. Only in 1 on 1 duels can you consistently use the "dead zone" strategy to defeat a hunter of same level and gear.

[Gisharr]

Doesn't the dead zone disappear with scatter shot? Long as that cd is not down, mages won't have a chance.

[murderousmic]

Yes we can scattershot you but generally we are frost nova'd before we can scatter. So I'm stuck in a block of ice and I scattershot, they're walking around aimlessly for 4 seconds. By the time scatter wears off, Frost nova wears off too and we're back to square one with a mage in the deadzone. Scatter is on 30sec cooldown.

But yes, it's a very tough fight for a mage, I agree. I honestly have lost maybe once 1 vs 1 to a similarly leveled and geared mage and that was when I was OOM. I can usually kill them in about 3-4 shots. Not a lot of time to work with.

[Shadowchild]

God i hate hunters !!!

[kickyoface]

God i hate hunters !!!

we love you too:heart:

[Amurko]

Playing a hunter, I can say that most equal level mages are cake. The ones that give me a run for my money are the ones with a ton of stamina, who can survive long enough to get into my dead zone.. *hint* *hint*

[maximusss]

blink to dead zone, CoC-Fire blast-pet should now be near the hunter attacking you-frost nova both of them-stay in dead zone and do as many frostbolts/fireballs as you can-then CoC-fire blast=dead hunter.
If they do scatter+frost trap then ice block (frost spec only)
If you arent frost spec just blink as soon as you can and repeat.
warlocks are the anti mage class tbh so just do ur best
hope this helps:)

[thmpr]

warlocks are hard indeed. Try to counterspell theyr shadowtree and KEEP AT MAX DISTANCE all the time. kite them. theyr fear has only a 20 yard range while your fireball has a 40 yard range.

hunters are easy. just keep in theyr deathzone ( farer than 5 yards so they can not melee you, but closer than 8 yards so they cannot shoot at you ) and finish them whit whatever spell you like. Instant casts preferred. And freeze them in place at the right time.

Both fights are alot about distance and keeping distance.

Warlocks are hard for a mage, hunters are cake.

Funny - in my limited experience with PVP, that's not what I've seen -
every mage that takes on a hunter tries that technique,
and takes a really pissed off animal with bestial wrath attacking him from behind, stunning him, ripping him a new you know what while he thinks he has the hunter "dead to rights".
Try picking whatever spell you like while the hunter's pet is ripping crits into your backside

[thmpr]

blink to dead zone, CoC-Fire blast-pet should now be near the hunter attacking you-frost nova both of them-stay in dead zone and do as many frostbolts/fireballs as you can-then CoC-fire blast=dead hunter.
If they do scatter+frost trap then ice block (frost spec only)
If you arent frost spec just blink as soon as you can and repeat.
warlocks are the anti mage class tbh so just do ur best
hope this helps:)

yep - love to insta-dot, follow with cc of your choice,
then when they're snapping out of that my pet & mana-drain is making them nice and useless as their health ticks away from my non-dispellable (or not w/out massive consequence) UA.

of course, I've seen uber-skilled mages pull off many warlock/hunter kills - so it really does depend on the skill of the individual player

[Twoflower]

Funny - in my limited experience with PVP, that's not what I've seen -
every mage that takes on a hunter tries that technique,
and takes a really pissed off animal with bestial wrath attacking him from behind, stunning him, ripping him a new you know what while he thinks he has the hunter "dead to rights".
Try picking whatever spell you like while the hunter's pet is ripping crits into your backside


if the pet is killing you whit his 200 ish hits, well, get more stamina ^^

and the deathzone works, belive me, it is the only way a mage can win against a hunter. practice it and you will blink in as soon as you see a hunter, happy about one of the easier fights a mage can have.

[Arthengel]

Although pvp is fun, sometimes some design aspects are just annoying. Most battles are designed to be quite short.

These days I am having troubles about shadowpriests. Yesterday in AB I charged a shadowpriest whenever I saw him, and got myself wtfpwned.

I charge, hit a MS which get absorbed by his shield, switch to zerker stance. I pummel his first spell either a mindblast or mindflay. Then he casts another spell!!! Are not all spells shadow? When I pummel, he shouldnt cast any spell from that school in three seconds.

And they continue mindflaying even if I walk to their back...out of LOS.

Anyway, they take away more than half of my hp (have 10kHP btw) without me getting anything decent on them, in a few seconds. Can any shadowpriest explain this to me? What am I doing wrong?

I can manage mages and locks on 1v1 50% of the encounters (mostly depending on who attacks first). But with shadowpriests, even if everything is to my advantage, I die.

[Gisharr]

if the pet is killing you whit his 200 ish hits, well, get more stamina ^^

and the deathzone works, belive me, it is the only way a mage can win against a hunter. practice it and you will blink in as soon as you see a hunter, happy about one of the easier fights a mage can have.

250-300 BM pet whites, 400-500ish crits OFTEN. 1.4something attack speed under frenzy/swiftness specced BM, .99 attack speed with frenzy/swiftness specced BM and new pet talent cobra reflexes. .99 attack speed means nothing with any kind of time, instants only. Simply, BM specced hunters are the anti mage. Honestly, no fight is an easy I win anymore. Warriors/rogues/pallies *may* be the easiest but it really matters if/when you time your imp CS with a pally. Locks and shadow priests are an absolute nightmare.

[Mirinda]

My PVP is in battlegrounds. Hunters are so nasty in bg because they do so much damage without having to defend themselves. Key is making them defend. I don't see many who want to try to melee me. If I get into dead zone, they're backing up not advancing. Use instants, pause for arcane missiles, more instants. Or pause for improved scorch to make that next fire blast better. If I have POM up then I can blow away half their health to start, and the majority just panic then.

I have to assume I'm getting hit with silencing shot, viper sting, scatter shot sequence somewhere along the way. Plan on it and you won't be thrown off.

If a hunter has a really tough pet, I will POM poly it. Then try to kite the hunter away from his pet while killing him. I've found that having impact, fire armor and blazing speed are a great improvement against pets.

I play a shadow priest in 30-39 battlegrounds, and with that one hunters are a little easier. Run toward the priest, fear him and his pet, DOT, mind blast and mind flay away. Shield and inner fire provide cushion. A mana burn can be very effective against a hunter too. Mages need some sort of mana-depleting spell too.

[Gisharr]

.... Mages need some sort of mana-depleting spell too.

Amen...That could help against priests, locks, hunters, and even pallies.

[Mirinda]

With warlocks, GFL.

Counterspell I suppose? Blow gobs of health off them, still not get a kill. Ack.

Trying to cast fireball against a warlock is like casting pyro, with the felguard eating me alive. Scorch just seems like peck peck peck against a warlock's hp. Silence, load up AP+trinket+POM, saved it just for you baby.

I'd rather see the demon ***** than the guard or felhunter. At least if I am seduced I might have a moment's peace.

Drain soul...what the heck damage does that tick for? It's incredible.