Heroic Slave Pens, give me some advice!

[rgirty]

A few weeks ago some guildmates and I downed the first boss in heroic slave pens. We got busy with some things and never went back, until last night.

We had little trouble with the bosses, we one shotted the first two and got the end boss down on the second attempt (bad positioning on the first attempt).

The problem we had was with the defenders. The mobs that cannot be CC. They are immune to poly, to traps..to saps and you cannot fear them. They would kill multiple party members when we faced them. We eventually cleared the instance, but these mobs added dramatically to our time spent in the instance.

We eventually found that allowing a hunter to kite one of them worked best, but for some reason that mob would eventually come after the healer even if 0 healing was being performed on the hunter.

I'd like to know how the rest of you handle these guys? Also with quag (end boss) does he always drop an epic and does he always drop a nether? He dropped 4 items for us, one being a nether, one epic rogue pants and two blues. Is that typical? It was my first time to down him on heroic mode.

[Twoflower]

defenders : we just have our tank tank both. alternative : rogue applies slowing poison to one who is kited by the distance classes, while the tank tanks the other. But a good tank should be able to tank both.

Loot : the endboss of any heroic instance drops 1 epic and 1 nether. i think this will change in the patch that all bosses drops epics, but i am not sure on that. For now, the endboss always drops a epic and a nether.

[rgirty]

Our tank isn't geared enough to tank both, we tried that it simply won't work for us. The slowing poison is a good idea, i'll try that thanks!

[DraedynLei]

If your tank can't tank both, don't feel bad. My heroic tank can barely do it. We just kite them. The crappy pulls are the ones where they have friends. Also we've found that warlocks can use... dang it I forget the curse or affliction. Makes em very slow. And I'll usually throw on a lvl 1 frostbolt every once in a while when their reflect isn't up.

[rgirty]

Tough pulls to be sure.

[moopy]

Same, we just have both tanked, and CC the ones that can be CCed, burn the tanked ones down nice and fast. Some of the casters in there can be MCed too, if you have a shadow priest with +hit gear, they can sometimes MC one and have the others kill him, before the proper CC and tanking starts, reducing the strain on the party.

[Steamboat]

Here is my advice:

Always refer to it as "Slave Penis" just to annoy people. Pretty soon they will start referring to it that way against their will.

[rgirty]

Same, we just have both tanked, and CC the ones that can be CCed, burn the tanked ones down nice and fast. Some of the casters in there can be MCed too, if you have a shadow priest with +hit gear, they can sometimes MC one and have the others kill him, before the proper CC and tanking starts, reducing the strain on the party.

We don't have a shadow priest.

Also, we don't say "penis" to annoy people. The guild is made up of mature people with many of them being married/having children.

We don't swear or use sexual references in vent/guild chat.

We'll have to practice the double tanking and see if we can get it down. I think i'd pull heal aggro because it would take so much mana to keep him up there is no way he could hold both. I have some ideas tho, i'll leave some feedback after our next attempt.

[moopy]

Here is my advice:

We already do this, after I made a freudian slip. What's worse is that our GM also subsequently misread "piercing jab" as "piercing job". It all rather went downhill from there.

[Steamboat]

Also, we don't say "penis" to annoy people. The guild is made up of mature people with many of them being married/having children.

We don't swear or use sexual references in vent/guild chat.



Poor rgirty, I'm sad for how boring your guild chat must be. I am in a mature guild as well, we all went to college together and I think our youngest guildmember is 22, but most of us are 26-30, and half our raiders are married couples.

That's why we can get away with sexual references in guild chat. There aren't any innocent ears to offend. In fact we have a special channel that's dedicated to dirty jokes: /join riffraffsex.

A lot of us have kids, but none of them are old enough to read yet.

[liquidicem]

Tanking 2 is the best bet if your tank and healer can handle it. If not, kiting them works pretty well as long as your kiter keeps aggro. The healer doesn't have to heal the kiter to build healing aggro on the mob.

[rgirty]

Poor rgirty, I'm sad for how boring your guild chat must be. I am in a mature guild as well, we all went to college together and I think our youngest guildmember is 22, but most of us are 26-30, and half our raiders are married couples.

That's why we can get away with sexual references in guild chat. There aren't any innocent ears to offend. In fact we have a special channel that's dedicated to dirty jokes: /join riffraffsex.

A lot of us have kids, but none of them are old enough to read yet.

Don't feel bad for me friend. We aren't a group of 26-30 year olds that need to talk about penis and tell dirty jokes to entertain ourselves. To each their own, and i'm glad you have a good time.

Just as you say poor girty, I say poor steamboat. Just last night we were discussing the opening of a new toyota plant in MS, the 11th in the country and the economical impact of the company in the region as well as the new business phenomenon known as rural sourcing.

We then went on to discuss lean manufacturing and how toyota has used those principles to become the largest most successful car manufacturer in the world, just last month finally accomplishing their 40+year old objective to do so.

I guess we could have just told each other dirty jokes, or snickered at each other while typing slave penis but I doubt that would entertain many of my guildmates.

[Steamboat]

Don't feel bad for me friend. We aren't a group of 26-30 year olds that need to talk about penis and tell dirty jokes to entertain ourselves. To each their own, and i'm glad you have a good time.

Just as you say poor girty, I say poor steamboat. Just last night we were discussing the opening of a new toyota plant in MS, the 11th in the country and the economical impact of the company in the region as well as the new business phenomenon known as rural sourcing.

We then went on to discuss lean manufacturing and how toyota has used those principles to become the largest most successful car manufacturer in the world, just last month finally accomplishing their 40+year old objective to do so.

I guess we could have just told each other dirty jokes, or snickered at each other while typing slave penis but I doubt that would entertain many of my guildmates.

To each his own indeed. I work in an office all day, and I have to use words like "paradigm shift" and "economically feasible." I want my free time to be the complete opposite of that. Talking about the economic impact of the local Toyota plant would make me want to /warcraft quit.

[/offtopic]

[galermon]

Rgirty,

The Defenders can't be CC'd, but they can be slowed. I have always been in Slavepens with a Hunter, and he has always kited using frost traps and concussive shots. We normally have the other defender down well before the hunter has to FD and release him back to us.

About the loot question. Have done Heroic SP about 15 times now. Has dropped 2 blues, a nether and an epic every single time.

And my preference when playing for enjoyment on WoW is to not talk about work or anything to serious. I come home from a hard days work to relax, not to think about more work about how my high cost of funds is going to hurt my bank's loan portfolio, bleh, bleh, bleh. So I have to go with Steamboat on that one =P.

[Schift]

defenders : we just have our tank tank both. alternative : rogue applies slowing poison to one who is kited by the distance classes, while the tank tanks the other. But a good tank should be able to tank both.

Loot : the endboss of any heroic instance drops 1 epic and 1 nether. i think this will change in the patch that all bosses drops epics, but i am not sure on that. For now, the endboss always drops a epic and a nether.

Currently Heroic Bosses have a chance of not dropping an epic at all. Last HSP I ran two blues and and epic gem dropped (primal nether's have 100% chance to drop in heroics off end boss).

After the patch, the end boss will have 100% chance to drop an epic item and all of the bosses will have a chance to drop an epic gem. That is my understanding of what the patch will change in terms of loot in heroics.

[Aerath]

You can tank both Defenders, but might require a backup healer - they hit fairly hard and pretty fast.

Other method is indeed to just kite 'em around. Requires a competent kiter, cos they'll one or two-shot most anything that isn't a tank.

If you've got an off-tank, you could try that one as well.

[Telmar]

The method we used when we first went was to have the rogue keep a good chain of stuns going on one of them, then vanish, and cheapshot and stun the other so diminishing returns didnt come into play.

This really helped, as we were using a bear tank, and they crushed the hell out of him, so it gave the healers a bit of breathing space to get those big heals to land while the group nuked one down.

[moopy]

You can tank both Defenders, but might require a backup healer - they hit fairly hard and pretty fast.

Other method is indeed to just kite 'em around. Requires a competent kiter, cos they'll one or two-shot most anything that isn't a tank.

If you've got an off-tank, you could try that one as well.

Yep, my preferred group takes a STORNG DURID as an OT, and when she's not tanking, she goes kitty and DPSses. OT is a great form of CC.

[rgirty]

I typically don't run with an OT either.

Priest
Warrior
Mage
Rogue
Hunter/lock/shaman

More kiting is needed, and more dps applied to remove the tanked mob from the scene.

[moopy]

In the last few heroics, we didn't have an offtank at all, and it still worked out OK. You need at least one solid CCer (mage or hunter) or an offtank, minimum. Then having other DPSsers able to CC or OT on top of that is just icing on the CAEK.

With a mage and a hunter, you should be on really solid ground in most heroics. The rogue can sometimes be useful, but if he's a raiding rogue without imp sap, he won't come fully into his own until after the patch (though distract tricks still make him viable).

Hell, in a recent heroic mana tombs, the doomkin was even doing great work with cyclone- necessity is the mother of invention and all that. We were using

Warrior (Prot)
Shammy (Resto)
Druid (Doomkin)
Mage (Fire/Arcane)
Priest (Shadow)

Poly was our only really high-quality CC. There were some big nasty pulls, but generally, it went well. When I am on my hunter, I rarely have to kite in heroics- though some people like to kite one of the giants before Hungarfen in Underbog. Last time, though, we just tanked and spanked them both, with the healadin almost catching fire from the healing/second.

[rgirty]

The CC on normal mobs wasn't an issue it was the pulls with two mobs who couldn't be cc'd. I have a good idea of how to handle them next time.

For example, when the fight starts I will move max distance in opposite direction of the hunter, he will pull one of the mobs and kite it until he must FD. At that time or before i will gain healing aggro and the mob will start moving in my direction. If the mob being tanked is near death the tank can grab the kited* mob when it passes him.

If we are still working on the tanked mob, I can use fade + aggro reduction trinket in timing with the hunter beginning to kite the mob again.

We'll need room but it should work, we'll need heavy dps on the original tanked mob OR have the tank grab the kited mob when it passes him and tank two for a very short period while the initial tanked mob goes down.

I think either way will work.

[Raemaar]

I find the trouble with having the tank on both defenders, is that without some really nice gear and/or a great healer, the cleaves from both will really carve huge gaps in the tanks armor...

I'm an ele shammy, more often than not in SP i find myself having to kite at least 1 defenders - just watch out for the spell reflect...Frost shocking yourself really hinders kiting ;)

[moopy]

We'll need room but it should work, we'll need heavy dps on the original tanked mob OR have the tank grab the kited mob when it passes him and tank two for a very short period while the initial tanked mob goes down.

I think either way will work.

One thing that helps a lot in these situations, assuming you have a trapping hunter is if she is able to maintain DPS on the primary target while retrapping. A lot of people don't notice the group DPS dropping like a stone when the hunter stops dpssing- binding a key (I use one of the extra mouse buttons) to allow traps to be dropped without hassle sounds simple, but it can be a lifesaver.

[rgirty]

One thing that helps a lot in these situations, assuming you have a trapping hunter is if she is able to maintain DPS on the primary target while retrapping. A lot of people don't notice the group DPS dropping like a stone when the hunter stops dpssing- binding a key (I use one of the extra mouse buttons) to allow traps to be dropped without hassle sounds simple, but it can be a lifesaver.

I don't think these mobs can be trapped?

[moopy]

No, I don't think the defenders can, but usually something in each pull can- and the hunter has to try and keep the DPS up while CCing, or the poor old tank gets pwnt. The defenders still get tanked, of course.

Sadly, trial and error is the only reliable way to find out which types can. I was delighted to find that the naughty electric robots in Mechanar heroic could, wasn't expecting that one. However, CC immunity does sometimes differ from the same instance in normal mode.

[rgirty]

No, I don't think the defenders can, but usually something in each pull can- and the hunter has to try and keep the DPS up while CCing, or the poor old tank gets pwnt. The defenders still get tanked, of course.

Sadly, trial and error is the only reliable way to find out which types can. I was delighted to find that the naughty electric robots in Mechanar heroic could, wasn't expecting that one. However, CC immunity does sometimes differ from the same instance in normal mode.

The 2 defender pulls were the ones giving us trouble, someone would almost always die (me).

[moopy]

They do suck, sadly, the best way to deal with them is to tank and spank them ASAP, and CC anything you can meantime. Heroics can be harsh.

[det]

I think especially the defender packs (where you get 2) are being changed in the patch...generally things are going to be easier. Also there will be guaranteed epix on (end?) bosses.

[rgirty]

I thought there was an epic on every end boss, and nether. I thought the changes in heroics were that epics could drop from any boss and that seduce could be used.

[Grendo]

I think especially the defender packs (where you get 2) are being changed in the patch...generally things are going to be easier. Also there will be guaranteed epix on (end?) bosses.Which is truly sad. While I understand the need to allow more class options in these instances, it takes out anything truly heroic about them. I liked being challenged again.

[rgirty]

Which is truly sad. While I understand the need to allow more class options in these instances, it takes out anything truly heroic about them. I liked being challenged again.

Head over to heroic black morass, i heard it delivers.

[Gaelan]

In blues you can still easily tank both defenders at once. I always did it on my Warrior prior to getting any epics. A few tips to help tank both and not take as much damage is to use Demo shout, T-Clap, disarm the 2nd Defender while everyone is attacking the 1st. By the time disarm wears off the 1st Defender should be falling very shortly. Use any trinkets you have at the beginning of the pull as well, shield block trinkets, armor buff trinkets, whathaveyou.

[DraedynLei]

In blues you can still easily tank both defenders at once. I always did it on my Warrior prior to getting any epics. A few tips to help tank both and not take as much damage is to use Demo shout, T-Clap, disarm the 2nd Defender while everyone is attacking the 1st. By the time disarm wears off the 1st Defender should be falling very shortly. Use any trinkets you have at the beginning of the pull as well, shield block trinkets, armor buff trinkets, whathaveyou.

Will tell my tank to try this. We're slated to run heroic SPs tonight.

[Magentia]

Kite a defender with a huntard, shaman or mage. they are not cc'able but they still take effect of frostshock, traps and other snares. they are immune to all roots though.

[Grendo]

Head over to heroic black morass, i heard it delivers.It truly does. Each wave is pretty painful. I havent found a way around the healing pains yet long enough to get passed the first boss. 2.1 is going to make this worse. Though, more ranged dps may be helpful at this point - we are currently using 3 melee, and no shadow priests, which hurts anytime the melee lords spawn.

[rgirty]

What is the issue with healing?

[Grendo]

AoE damage to the melee dps mainly. The thunderclaps are a good 2-3k damage, shadow volleys 2-4k, etc. Add in adds that do more damage than before, while having twice the health, and you have at least 2 people needing constant attention aside from the aoe damage.

The first boss is doable, but rough. He has a nice little 5k+ large range aoe (similar to aran's summon and ae, but with much more range). In addition to I believe a 4-5k DD, and normal melee that hits like a truck.

Even with 1500+ heal, ~200mp5, and 20%+ holy crit at this point, a single paladin healer can be overwhelmed in a melee heavy group.

We werent flasked, but had decent food and pot buffs.

[DraedynLei]

Kite a defender with a huntard, shaman or mage. they are not cc'able but they still take effect of frostshock, traps and other snares. they are immune to all roots though.

The problem is that stupid reflect. I am kiting just fine but then that reflect pops up and I just frostbolted myself. Now I'm debuffed and he's not. One shotted. Luckily I had pulled him far enough away by then so my group got both down.

[rgirty]

I think i'll try it with:

Prot warrior

Fire mage

Warlock x 2.

A warlock on adds, as they can do drive by dots.

The other warlock, and mage can stand very near me (holy priest).

I'm thinking I won't have any problem keeping the tank healed, but the entire party taking damage is designed to drain your mana.

Heavy +heal and mp5 food/buffs/pots with super mana pot chugging and 2/2 in healing prayers makes me believe that I could MH the first boss at least without much trouble.

The second and third boss, i'm not sure.

My strategy would simply be to have the 2 caster dps who are on the boss to stand near me, downranked renew (still ticks for nearly 500) and the occasional Prayer of healing should top myself and the casters off nicely. Inner focus every 3 minutes for a free PoH.

I'm really thinking of giving it a go, my regular group all have heroic access.

It was multiple mobs that gave us trouble in slave pens, i'm thinking single target fights that we are familiar with shouldn't give us as much trouble. I'll be taking 3 casters all with around 900-1000 spell damage unbuffed.

I'll report back if we give it a shot.

[det]

Which is truly sad. While I understand the need to allow more class options in these instances, it takes out anything truly heroic about them. I liked being challenged again.

Still, while I felt challenged, I also felt that the very last bit in Slave Pens was stupidly hard. The guy that is in the cage is no elite and dies without anyone even having a chance to save or heal him, so if you come without a shaman, the fight becomes impossibly hard.

We did really, really well with a druid tank, paladin, priest, warlock, rogue party. No wipes, some 5 man groups we finished even when the tank died with kiting, fearing and general imbaness. Yet that last group before the cage, the spawns after that and Quagg kept us occupied for 2 hours, wiping and eventually (after a 1% wipe on the boss fully buffed / potted, all CD blown) to give up.

Re-run with a shammy we got him on the second try.

Felt more random and frustrating than heroic.

[rgirty]

Still, while I felt challenged, I also felt that the very last bit in Slave Pens was stupidly hard. The guy that is in the cage is no elite and dies without anyone even having a chance to save or heal him, so if you come without a shaman, the fight becomes impossibly hard.

We did really, really well with a druid tank, paladin, priest, warlock, rogue party. No wipes, some 5 man groups we finished even when the tank died with kiting, fearing and general imbaness. Yet that last group before the cage, the spawns after that and Quagg kept us occupied for 2 hours, wiping and eventually (after a 1% wipe on the boss fully buffed / potted, all CD blown) to give up.

Re-run with a shammy we got him on the second try.

Felt more random and frustrating than heroic.

Strange, we died on the first pull of quag due to some bad positioning of the mob and players, but we got him easily on the second attempt. For us he was easier than the end boss in mech.. as I type that I think i figured out why.

I usually run with 1 tank, perhaps a rogue and caster dps. As long as we don't have adds on a boss we do very well, the dps is good but the durability is not. When there are adds, such as pantheon or the botanist we struggle mightily. The pulls in slave pens were much more difficult than the bosses.

Out of the three bosses, we only wiped once and that was the bad setup on quag, on the second try we didn't have any problems.

I think for that reason we might have good success with heroic bm.

[Grendo]

A warlock on adds, as they can do drive by dots.We use our warlock for the same in later attempts. Was much more successful given the self-survivability.

I'll be taking 3 casters all with around 900-1000 spell damage unbuffed.Should help a ton, as well as the emergency heals, and HoTs - both things I lack on the paladin for obvious reasons. Let me know how it goes. ;)

[Fenris Ulf]

We did heroic slavepens with 3 mages, druid tank (me) and a priest healing.

The only changeups were on the 2nd/3rd boss fight. One of the mages goes out, bring in prot warrior and druid goes off heal (+900 heal at the time, my HoT's were humming + tranq +innerv + battle rez..gg mr. boss, yousah is dead).

The prot warrior claimed he could tank it alone, but with the priest we had (~1000 healing, maybe less), it wouldn't have been possible. Prot warriors like to talk out their butts sometimes to druid tanks.

[rgirty]

I question the +1k healing your priest had. Especially attempting a heroic instance. That is a very low amount.

[Grendo]

Shrug, my paladin had ~850 when I started running mech daily. A good tank can make up for a lot, as can a healer who understands the encounters and maintains a decent amount of skill.

[rgirty]

An essence focuser can be bought from the ah for 50g on my realm, It has 227+heal and a good amount of mp5. With a +81 heal and any kind of green offhand you can easily get +308 healing with those two items alone.

If in all the remaining slots your priest can only muster 700 heal i would be hesitant to take them to a heroic instance, unless they just spec'd holy from shadow.

[Fenris Ulf]

+1000 priest was a PUG, the other 4 guild...soooooo, yeah, ideally we don't take anyone less than +1200 with skill. I'm just saying it can be done with 2 nice dps classes, a kara-ready tank, and 1.5 mediocre healers (the 0.5 being me, the feral druid, healing). I'm sure X/resto hybrid shaman would have done a much better job than I dps/healing on these last 2 bosses...I'm simply trying to point out that 4/5 well geared with good cc can accomplish a lot.

[rgirty]

I agree, the priest boosted by a druid no matter the spec would work. HoT stacking helped a lot post 2.0

[Aerath]

Still, while I felt challenged, I also felt that the very last bit in Slave Pens was stupidly hard. The guy that is in the cage is no elite and dies without anyone even having a chance to save or heal him, so if you come without a shaman, the fight becomes impossibly hard.

Easy solution, don't let him get anywhere near the elites.

You know they spawn, just catch 'em out of eye sight of the Naturalist and your problem is solved. He won't aggro on them unless they get close. And vice versa.

[rgirty]

Easy solution, don't let him get anywhere near the elites.

You know they spawn, just catch 'em out of eye sight of the Naturalist and your problem is solved. He won't aggro on them unless they get close. And vice versa.

AH! i learned something, and with that I'll be back tomorrow!

But after that, Rgirty is going on vacation and won't be back on the boards for 2 weeks!

[moopy]

Of course, unless you need him alive for a reason other than his buff, you can skip that whole mound altogether, and kill the boss without ever pulling that group. Tank the boss near the pool against the far wall, and tell ranged to keep in fairly close to the wall too, and there's no real problem. He's not as hard to kill as you might expect in heroic, you can get by without any special resist gear et cetera.

[rgirty]

I just told the ranged to stand near me and healed them with PoH and downranked renew. I had no problem keeping the tank up.

[Twoflower]

why not get the buff ?

when you release the guy, have the other 4 party members allready wait at the tunnel entrance to welcome the 3 mobs that spawn. It s just a group of 3, not groups of 4 or 5 mobs like the last 5 pulls on the way there. I dont see why you should have a problem whit this group.

[rgirty]

I'll skip it next time. We don't need the buff.

[moopy]

why not get the buff ?

To turn it around, why get the buff? It's just another pull that you don't need to make. You don't need it to kill the buff. Skipping mobs that you don't need to kill can make things a lot less dull.

[rgirty]

To turn it around, why get the buff? It's just another pull that you don't need to make. You don't need it to kill the buff. Skipping mobs that you don't need to kill can make things a lot less dull.

yep 123456

[alanthecelt]

can be tough
as a rogue i hit them as hard and as fast and apply as many stuns as possible while everyone goes full dps on my target and hopefully it will be dead before it can move...
leaving the other mob on the tank

[Telmar]

To turn it around, why get the buff? It's just another pull that you don't need to make. You don't need it to kill the buff. Skipping mobs that you don't need to kill can make things a lot less dull.

Because I'd rather not have a pack with defenders in sat close behind me as i kill a boss :)

[dwarfenhelm]

i did slave pens last night first time and found it a good chalenge. i specced full prot and had holy priest from my guild other 3 mage rogue and feral druid (catty form) all randoms we had never run together b4 and only 1 person had been into this in heroic. the 5 man pulls we got the sap on then the priest to mc the healer wait till healeris dead and id blood rage and challenge shout stood next to the priest as he fadded out and run back mage sheeps mob and we tank and spank. the defenders caused a lot of problems but in the end we got the druid to pull 1 and sprint away we killed other then i tuant agro as defender comes back worked very well. after a few trash mob wipes we1 slotted every boss though on last boss only me and the mage left for the last 20% of the fight spam shield block like crazy hit my trinkets and health pot and some how i had 1k hp left after the fight.
all in all it was a really good run and i cant wait to get back

[rgirty]

I have found that group makeup is a real deciding factor here. I ran it with a prot warrior and feral druid. While trash was easier to clear bosses were not, it could have been the guy on the druid who was the issue.

I have ran it several times now, a double tank by the warrior on the defenders works 90% of the time and my normal group 1 shots all the bosses with ease.

[xaoxen]

im sure it has been posted, but a neat trick we do on those defenders is to have a hunter (me) park their pet in the water for the first defender pull and misdirect onto the pet. apply a frost trap to slow him. for the other defender pulls, there is much more room to simply kite them around like puppets.

also i would guess 50% of all trash mobs in SP can be skipped if not more!

[rgirty]

After running it a few times, we skip a considerable amount of mobs and double tank defenders. Much easier than it used to be, in nearly the same gear.