Aggro Control: A Hunters Perspective [Archive] - Unofficial World of Warcraft Forums

LucidSpirit

17-05-2007, 09:58 AM

I asked a similar question in the mage forum but from my point of view, ie a mage -- the responses were very informative. I don't play any other classes other than a mage but I wish to learn about various characteristics of classes so that when I lead a group I can advise on certain strategies before embarking on a raid.

Now, please don't start flaming hunters. That is not the point of this thread. I merely wish to understand what can be done about a common problem: tank attacks first and therefore attempts to raise rage and holds aggro; hunter sends in his pet but then he also fires a couple of shots. Suddenly, the mobs are bored with the tank and head towards the hunter.

Other than getting a new tank, what can be done? I already know that hunters can feign death but then will the mob go the nearest person or head back to the tank? What other tricks do hunters have?

-LS

Qqwi

17-05-2007, 10:07 AM

Misdirection

LucidSpirit

17-05-2007, 10:12 AM

Misdirection

Thanks for the info but please expand as it means very little to me.

DotComm

17-05-2007, 10:16 AM

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=34477#z0z

earindur

17-05-2007, 10:37 AM

OP dont mind the eejits above,

a hunter should use misdirection from the hunter to the main tank as soon as the pull happens, this will increase the tanks agro from the start. the dps the hunter puts out while misdirection is up will act as dps the tank has done.

Once the pull has happened feign death as often as possible,

dps dps dps feign death
dps dps dps feign death

feign death is not an "oh ****" button, its a method to drop agro.

wildtxn

17-05-2007, 10:51 AM

Tell your hunter to 1st turn off growl on pet. This alone should keep the pet from stealing agro from the tank.

Misdirection and Feign also work but try to refrain from aimed shot as much will also reduce the chance of stealing agro.

A 5-7k crit aimed shot will steal agro almost every time.

LucidSpirit

17-05-2007, 10:54 AM

earindur

17-05-2007, 11:01 AM

Now this is the sort of information I need -- very useful to know. Thanks

no problem at all, i lead a new raiding group and have picked this stuff up recently :) anything you want to know just post or PM me.

dwarfenhelm

17-05-2007, 11:28 AM

feign death is a waste of time unless the mob is actualy coming at you. if you are constantly usng feign death then when you need to use it its on cd and your dead or you run around leading the tank on a merry treck.
also misdirection is great but unless your lvl 70 then you wont have it so its a bit pointless saying misdirection all the time. and a hunter cant misdirect if they are going to freeze trap.
basicly the simple way to make sure the hunter, mage, lock or what ever class your running with dont pull the aggro is to go and download KTM threat meter. this way you can see what threat the tank is putting out and alter your shot rotation incase your putting out to much agro.
always wait till the tank has 2 or 3 sunders on any target b4 you fire any shot then open with a low hitting shot and build up. if you do this then as long as the tank is any good you will struggle to pull the agro of them.

EdvinMedvind

17-05-2007, 12:08 PM

feign death is a waste of time unless the mob is actualy coming at you.
Fallacy. Playing a hunter by the book means feigning death before you pull aggro. This is so basic.

earindur

17-05-2007, 12:09 PM

misdirection is great but unless your lvl 70 then you wont have it so its a bit pointless saying misdirection all the time. and a hunter cant misdirect if they are going to freeze trap.

sorry to cut your post apart but, as quoted below lucid is talking about raiding so i am to assume she means at 70.

I wish to learn about various characteristics of classes so that when I lead a group I can advise on certain strategies before embarking on a raid.

also

feign death is a waste of time unless the mob is actualy coming at you. if you are constantly usng feign death then when you need to use it its on cd and your dead or you run around leading the tank on a merry treck.

You shouldnt need to use feign death to save your own ass, if you had feign death'd earlier you wouldnt have pulled agro.

bear in mind the warlock/shadow priest/mage are also higher in threat than the MT but because you have now broken it (over 30% iirc) the mob will go running for the poor unfortunates that have not broken the agro table. killing them or forcing them to use soulshatter/iceblock/fade.

Feign death is a brilliant utility to use as often as possible, if you feign death you drop all agro, so you can pop back up and start dps'ing again. using it as an "oh crap" button in raids can be seen as stupid and bloody selfish as its not helping the others you have now signed to death by breaking the agro table.

Drawing Aggro

The following conditions will cause a mob to attack a character if it is already attacking someone else:

1. Taunting the mob, or
2. Exceeding the threat level of the mob's current target by 10% within melee range of the mob, or
3. Exceeding the threat level of the mob's current target by 30% outside melee range of the mob, or
4. The player with aggro leaves the leash range of the mob, leaves the instance, successfully uses an ability to leave combat (such as feign death), or dies, or
5. If certain abilities impair the access of the mob to its higher threat-ranked targets (e.g. root spells), the mob will attack the highest threat-ranked target in its ability range (usually visible for melee mobs or silenced casters, which have a combat range of 5 yards)

if you break the 130% (100+30 for ranged) mark the other people from ranged over 100 will now get a beating if they are drawn into melee range and the tank doesnt get agro back quickly.

IMO your advice is not sound for raiding.

Clavina

17-05-2007, 12:55 PM

I was going to post something similar but earindur has explained it pretty well. In summary:

Good - using feign death has often as possible to ensure that you never pull aggro

Bad - using feign death after you have pulled aggro, often resulting in clothies getting a beating

Qqwi

17-05-2007, 01:08 PM

Sorry i was going to add to the Misdirection part but i am at work and i pulled aggro :)

had to Feign Work

moopy

17-05-2007, 01:17 PM

earindur

17-05-2007, 01:35 PM

Of course, sometimes the tank gets a string of freak misses, and then everyone is reactively spamming their aggro dropping skills. I hate it when that happens- it almost always coincides with a string of sweet crits from the DPS (damn the gods of WoW and their sense of humour).

aye, i see this alot...

"hold for 4 sunders"

blocks/resists/misses, 5 seconds later

"keep holding"

blocks/resists/misses, another 5 seconds later

"ah feck it, just dps on 2 im bored waiting"

Toolio

17-05-2007, 03:20 PM

A 5-7k crit aimed shot will steal agro almost every time.

How often are you critting for 5-7k? Seriously? And please don't embellish. I would love to see your profile.
And why would you use Aimed Shot in the middle of a fight? And if you're using it as an opening, why wouldn't you pop MD on the MT first? Something is not right with your statement.

Silverhand

17-05-2007, 04:35 PM

How often are you critting for 5-7k? Seriously? And please don't embellish. I would love to see your profile.
And why would you use Aimed Shot in the middle of a fight? And if you're using it as an opening, why wouldn't you pop MD on the MT first? Something is not right with your statement.

Folks:

A bit off topic but I have to say - really appreciate the content in this one. I started my first hunter about a week ago and have gotten him to 31. My initial impression has been that they're ridiculously easy to play. Not that I don't enjoy munching my way through packs of 3 - 4 equal level mobs without breaking much of a sweat and soloing quests that normally take at least one partner. It's just that you don't learn much doing it that way.

I have a rogue that I sweated - solo - to the mid sixties (didn't really join a guild until I hit the high 50's). It was often tiresome but I did learn how to play my character. Couldn't say the same with my hunter.

Combining this thread with an earlier kiteing thread and the chain trapping guide, I'm actually starting to get a feel for how to play my character in a group.

Thanks,

Silverhand

xDarkDrifterx

17-05-2007, 04:52 PM

feign death is a waste of time unless the mob is actualy coming at you.

Completely Incorrect - FD is an aggro control device when used properly - not just a save my butt button.

I use Feign constantly to drop aggro from myself in instances . . . I usually feign if I see that the target of my target (turn this on in the interface options) becomes me and not the tank.

I feign after large crits.

I feign alot actually . . .

Feigning regularly will keep the aggro on the tank and not the hunter.

For instancing try to get a hunter that has speced into survivablilty a bit to get clever traps. Clever traps ups the time that a trap holds. So it becomes something like 36 seconds I believe.

So mark one for the hunter to trap, mark one for a rogue to sap, mark one to be shackled (if the mob can be) or mark one for a lock to banish, and of course skull one for the tank and for focus firing.

A hunter has an ability (mentioned above) called misdirect - this puts the aggro from the hunters next 3 shots on to whatever raid / party member he puts the misdirect on.

Hunter's should not have growl turned on for their pet. Also, they should never have the pet on offense or defence - just passive - this will insure that the pet doesn't break any CC's or get any adds that you don't want b/c some far away mob shoots the hunter and pet runs over and aggros like 3 mobs.

Lately as soon as the rogue saps, the tank runs in and draws aggro - I conc and arcane the one marked for me and drop a trap. Before the mob gets to me I have clicked onto a new target and the mob then gets trapped and my dps is now elsewhere. Once the skull goes down that the tank was working on we usually go for the hunter's trapped mob as the other CC abilities usually last longer. I then lay another trap near the healer or in front of a mob that will be coming out of CC pretty soon and continue dpsing.

Chain trapping FTW . . .also as mentioned above hunters can kite a mob out of the area till the party is ready for him to return with it.

It's up to everyone to know how long each CC lasts . . . if you're not sure look it up or ask that party member when you start as some classes can extend the time on their CC abilities with points in certain trees (like hunters).

:grin:

moopy

17-05-2007, 05:10 PM

A well-geared hunter is going to be building aggro at an insane rate anyway, with a proper dense speed-adjusted shot rotation. If you use KTM, you'll see why you'll be wanting to FD pretty much whenever it's up.

"Hate, Sister, it's just a crit away, crit away, crit away"

or something. If your aggro is looking peachy and you have tonnes of breathing space, maybe you'll save it- but whenever you're anywhere near being in doubt, you burn that FD.

Kitano

17-05-2007, 05:16 PM

Folks:

A bit off topic but I have to say - really appreciate the content in this one. I started my first hunter about a week ago and have gotten him to 31. My initial impression has been that they're ridiculously easy to play. Not that I don't enjoy munching my way through packs of 3 - 4 equal level mobs without breaking much of a sweat and soloing quests that normally take at least one partner. It's just that you don't learn much doing it that way.

I have a rogue that I sweated - solo - to the mid sixties (didn't really join a guild until I hit the high 50's). It was often tiresome but I did learn how to play my character. Couldn't say the same with my hunter.

Combining this thread with an earlier kiteing thread and the chain trapping guide, I'm actually starting to get a feel for how to play my character in a group.

Thanks,

Silverhand

Despite the general opinion of those who don't play Hunters, Hunters are actually require quite a bit of skill to play well. Take your average instance at 70. In the instance I can be doing all of the following essentially at once on a pull:

MD to tank
Drop trap for mob
Watching for mobs that may attack squishies and be ready to pick them up
Controlling my pet
Watching my aggro and being sure to FD when it's up
Dropping a second trap to chain trap target
Bandageing when necessary
All of this while constantly DPSing the main target

Sure Hunters are an easy class to play. Every class is essentially easy if you don't want to learn all of the intricacies but you have to really work to learn to play one well. Don't be deceived by your ability to solo; there's so much more than that to being a good Hunter.

Silverhand

17-05-2007, 05:19 PM

Despite the general opinion of those who don't play Hunters, Hunters are actually require quite a bit of skill to play well. Take your average instance at 70. In the instance I can be doing all of the following essentially at once on a pull:

MD to tank
Drop trap for mob
Watching for mobs that may attack squishies and be ready to pick them up
Controlling my pet
Watching my aggro and being sure to FD when it's up
Dropping a second trap to chain trap target
Bandageing when necessary
All of this while constantly DPSing the main target

Sure Hunters are an easy class to play. Every class is essentially easy if you don't want to learn all of the intricacies but you have to really work to learn to play one well. Don't be deceived by your ability to solo; there's so much more than that to being a good Hunter.

Complete agreement here. This was a good thread - it may have been posted in the wrong forum - but good thread.

Cheers,

Silverhand

LucidSpirit

17-05-2007, 05:26 PM

Completely Incorrect - FD is an aggro control device when used properly - not just a save my butt button.

I use Feign constantly to drop aggro from myself in instances . . . I usually feign if I see that the target of my target (turn this on in the interface options) becomes me and not the tank.
on their CC abilities with points in certain trees (like hunters).
....
....
....
....
....

:grin:

Another well informed bit of advice. I will find this comment and others in the thread very useful. Thanks DarkDrifter and all those who have contributed.

Many people find playing hunters easy...but being part of a team is a whole new ball game. As I said earlier, I am not a hunter and I have no wish to be but that doesn't stop me from learning and understanding the capabilities and roles of each class in the group. Hence, this thread - I am soaking up the knowledge.

Thanks again

Seeo

17-05-2007, 05:48 PM

A 5-7k crit aimed shot will steal agro almost every time

O.O

I call BS on the 5 - 7K AS unless I see a Screenie...

I don't know how much AP you'd need to get that... but I bet its over 3000.

earindur

17-05-2007, 06:06 PM

O.O

I call BS on the 5 - 7K AS unless I see a Screenie...

I don't know how much AP you'd need to get that... but I bet its over 3000.

I would imagine he is going to provide a screenshot either standing in a beam in netherspite or against an evocating curator.

shifttusk

17-05-2007, 06:23 PM

<<feign death is a waste of time unless the mob is actualy coming at you. if you are constantly usng feign death then when you need to use it its on cd and your dead or you run around leading the tank on a merry treck.
also misdirection is great but unless your lvl 70 then you wont have it so its a bit pointless saying misdirection all the time. and a hunter cant misdirect if they are going to freeze trap.
basicly the simple way to make sure the hunter, mage, lock or what ever class your running with dont pull the aggro is to go and download KTM threat meter. this way you can see what threat the tank is putting out and alter your shot rotation incase your putting out to much agro.
always wait till the tank has 2 or 3 sunders on any target b4 you fire any shot then open with a low hitting shot and build up. if you do this then as long as the tank is any good you will struggle to pull the agro of them.>>

<<Fallacy. Playing a hunter by the book means feigning death before you pull aggro. This is so basic.>>

Evil although we but heads pleanty this is the best response I've heard. People who save FD to save their assses instead of using it continualy are... poopooheads...

Ok to dwarf. If I am your tank and I am beating on evil the evil mob who has my loots. You wait for 5 sunders and go. I have 5000 threat caused. You hit for 800 800 1400 800 so on. When do you feign death? As soon as you can. Why you drop back to 0 and will more than likely not catch back up in threat before 30seconds are up or the mob is dead. This is what FD is for, proactive agro managment. Use it as soon as you have decent hate (80-90 of tank) then use it every 30 seconds and you'll never pull agro. What you are saying is what leads to a mob getting twitchy and often times ending up beating the crap out of a mage or healer.

<<misdirection is great but unless your lvl 70 then you wont have it so its a bit pointless saying misdirection all the time. and a hunter cant misdirect if they are going to freeze trap.>> Completely wrong tank pulls group you pull mob over trap you misdirect tank you multishot into pack of mobs being tanked healer thanks you for keeping mobbies on the plate head.

Nitsujcm

17-05-2007, 06:34 PM

...tank attacks first and therefore attempts to raise rage and holds aggro...

I just wanted to say something about this since no one else has. Group has both a tank and a hunter... (even if they arn't lvl 70 with misdir.) - Please please for the love of all things holy let the hunter pull and back up so he can FD on a bad pull.

shifttusk

17-05-2007, 06:36 PM

O.O

I call BS on the 5 - 7K AS unless I see a Screenie...

I don't know how much AP you'd need to get that... but I bet its over 3000.

Ya, even on the PTR with the new HM and T5 and the SSC bow I didn't see anything over 4.6k except on curator during evocation and heroic mech first boss. This was around 2680ap

Toolio

17-05-2007, 07:03 PM

It's a shame that not a single hunter has mentioned the use of DISENGAGE as a means to lower threat.

xDarkDrifterx

17-05-2007, 07:32 PM

It's a shame that not a single hunter has mentioned the use of DISENGAGE as a means to lower threat.

Good point . . . I just rarely use it, as with using the aforementioned technique, the mobs are usually not that close to me - but yeah that works quite nicely when used as well.

xDarkDrifterx

17-05-2007, 07:39 PM

O.O

I call BS on the 5 - 7K AS unless I see a Screenie...

I don't know how much AP you'd need to get that... but I bet its over 3000.

same here - 5k okay totally - but 6-7 bahh - maybe all frasked / potted / totally purpled out / trinket in use / juju / scroll / howl buff from pet / then you're getting up there (maybe then with top top gear) . . . but even then . . . I'm critting high end just under 4k right now (not the best gear either - blues with a few of the last of my greenies while I try to get runs to replace them) - so I could see like 5.5 even 6 . . . but 7k - it sure would be nice though :grin:

omg i double posted lol . . . /slaps own wrist :laugh:

Pragar

17-05-2007, 08:22 PM

time to post and not lurk :grin:

well tbh i have hit a 9.2k aimed crit, partially potted, popped trinkets and yes it was on the curator during evocation :cool:

shifttusk

17-05-2007, 08:31 PM

It's a shame that not a single hunter has mentioned the use of DISENGAGE as a means to lower threat.

Generaly I use it in two cases:

1) I'm farming and bored and hit the button when i pull agro off my pet

2) I get 2 FD's resisted and actualy pull agro. I hit it which barely ever works and then get 2 shot by the boss.

ecanem

17-05-2007, 08:47 PM

Great post, it wasnt until I started doing 70 instances that I actually liked the hunter and his abilities.

As a beartank I love hunters, expecially ones like the poster below. Usually they can handle thier own mob and they will only ask for help when they need it, meanwhile they are also dpsing the other mobs we are fighting.

A good hunter like the op below is welcome in my group anytime.

Completely Incorrect - FD is an aggro control device when used properly - not just a save my butt button.

I use Feign constantly to drop aggro from myself in instances . . . I usually feign if I see that the target of my target (turn this on in the interface options) becomes me and not the tank.

I feign after large crits.

I feign alot actually . . .

Feigning regularly will keep the aggro on the tank and not the hunter.

For instancing try to get a hunter that has speced into survivablilty a bit to get clever traps. Clever traps ups the time that a trap holds. So it becomes something like 36 seconds I believe.

So mark one for the hunter to trap, mark one for a rogue to sap, mark one to be shackled (if the mob can be) or mark one for a lock to banish, and of course skull one for the tank and for focus firing.

A hunter has an ability (mentioned above) called misdirect - this puts the aggro from the hunters next 3 shots on to whatever raid / party member he puts the misdirect on.

Hunter's should not have growl turned on for their pet. Also, they should never have the pet on offense or defence - just passive - this will insure that the pet doesn't break any CC's or get any adds that you don't want b/c some far away mob shoots the hunter and pet runs over and aggros like 3 mobs.

Lately as soon as the rogue saps, the tank runs in and draws aggro - I conc and arcane the one marked for me and drop a trap. Before the mob gets to me I have clicked onto a new target and the mob then gets trapped and my dps is now elsewhere. Once the skull goes down that the tank was working on we usually go for the hunter's trapped mob as the other CC abilities usually last longer. I then lay another trap near the healer or in front of a mob that will be coming out of CC pretty soon and continue dpsing.

Chain trapping FTW . . .also as mentioned above hunters can kite a mob out of the area till the party is ready for him to return with it.

It's up to everyone to know how long each CC lasts . . . if you're not sure look it up or ask that party member when you start as some classes can extend the time on their CC abilities with points in certain trees (like hunters).

:grin:

Summoned

18-05-2007, 04:25 AM

It's a shame that not a single hunter has mentioned the use of DISENGAGE as a means to lower threat.
That's because you have to be in melee range to use it. Feign death a) costs less mana b) usually drops more aggro, and c) does not require you to be within range to be cleaved for 2000 to work.

Justinledwards

18-05-2007, 05:53 AM

Summoned

18-05-2007, 05:57 AM

Ha yes disengage... don't think I even bothered with it on toolbar. Wing clip, run , concuss, kite - much nicer strategy IMHO.

Is disengage spammable like wing-clip? If not its fairly useless... ok I am going to have another go at disengaging in 3 seconds with my voidaxe / halberd/ spear... cos he blocked one parried the other whoops thats 10 seconds - hey what's this release button?
It has something like a 10 second cooldown like feint/cower. It also seems to have an abnormally high chance to be parried/blocked/dodged whenever you absolutely need it to hit, but that may just be me.

Justinledwards

18-05-2007, 06:10 AM

Yes that is what I remember just wasn't sure. I think i used it a few times on the way to 60 then stuck with wing clip. I know some hunters use it and swear by it though... so it may have its uses.

I like the reliable stuff though for various PvE situations Feign Death is good. Ice trap is good. Pet is better. Pet + Feign Death is great (u get aggro, send pet, FD). Scatter + pet is great.

One note for a hunter utility in raid - the pet may not get used much on bosses, but is a nice squishy saver - along with ice traps.

On another note I would like to say I grouped with the best hunter ever last night, all guild except the hunter who I pugged. I have never seen a hunter actually have two mobs ice-trapped at the same time - not chain trap, but two trapped at once. This guy was good!

Aerath

18-05-2007, 10:56 AM

I just wanted to say something about this since no one else has. Group has both a tank and a hunter... (even if they arn't lvl 70 with misdir.) - Please please for the love of all things holy let the hunter pull and back up so he can FD on a bad pull.

Let a hunter pull ? I don't quite see the point. Get a tank who can make a proper pull and the instance goes that much faster. Most of the times it's completely not needed since there's precious little hard spots in the game where it comes to pulling. Only regular 5man I can think of where it might be an issue would be in Arcatraz right before the first boss.