Old world raid zones, worth a visit?

[rgirty]

My guild can field a raid force of about 25-30 people.

NONE of which have much/any gear from mc/bwl/zg/aq/naxx.

We did clear mc through rags a month or so ago but I didn't see anything of much interest.

My question is, if we are stumped on a kara boss would it be worth it to go back and re-visit one of those zones? Not only to see the content that we have never seen before OR for some of the rare enchants/loot?

One of the reasons, is that we all like to play together. Sure, we could break off into 5 mans and do some heroics but that isn't as fun. We also need practice as a raiding group and I think it builds friendships when we get everyone together.

I'm thinking BwL would be good if we get everyone attuned. The rejuv trinket is still top end and could be used by healers even now.

The 2% reduced threat to cloak thread made me think of this, i'd love to have that enchant. I know its from the twin emps whom i'd love to visit and take out just for kicks if nothing else.

Thoughts?

[Grendo]

If youre raid group is inexperienced / inexperienced with each other, definitely. I wouldnt go lower than BWL, but many of the events in outlands closely resemble old endgame events - many times combinations of two or more fights. Theyre worth doing if for no other reason than to understand the mechanics in an easier controlled setting.

We still have guild member interested in finishing Naxx and AQ40, mainly due to how close we were when TBC hit. While the gear is on par/less than high 70 blues and heroics for some events, we're really just completionists.

If youre stuck in kara and need to see some kind of progress, id definitely check out a few quick BWL runs (should be a breeze at 70), and focus on Naxx.

[Spennce]

I would only do it for the enchants sake, but even then its a waste of time imo. If you are stumped on a kara boss nothing is going to build more chemistry and moral with your raid group than finally beating the boss. Stick it out, you may go a week with nothing more to show than wipes and repair bills, but your learning a ton about each other in the process.

[rgirty]

I doubt we could field enough for naxx, and 90% of us aren't attuned for it.

So thats kinda out.. blah!

I've been looking at the loot tables and not much out there. Looks like i'll scrap the idea.

[ocellaris]

You would be surprised to find that a lot of the AQ and Naxx bosses can not simply be rolled over at L70. There are a lot of "if you mess this up, you die" situations on many of the encounters.

And it is also a complete waste of time and effort for your guild. What boss are you stuck on in Kara?

[Wintrow]

I'd love it for the tourist value alone.

But sure yeah, Vael's Burning Adrenaline will kill you just as fast whether you have 9000 or 14000 hp :smiley:

[Twoflower]

the nice enchants are super rare drops. you could farm the bosses every ID for months and still not get one. Also, the loot is nothing any more compared to lvl 70 blues, let alone epics.

There are some items late into Naxx ( sapphiron for example ) that would still have some value at lvl 70, but the effort to get there would be enormous.

There are some fights in all these instances ( vaelastraz, twins, CTHUN, 4 HORSEMEN ) that are very difficult and the lvl you have makes allmost no difference. So you'd have to put in all the effort a lvl 60 raiding guild did, for almost no return or no return at all.

So, if you wanna do it for the challenge, go for it, if you wanna do it for anything else, forget it.

[Wintrow]

I suppose you could last one extra mark of the 4 horsemen at the stamina ranges of outland... ?

[Twoflower]

yeah, but the basic tactic stays the same. you cannot just hang around and not check the debuffs "because you are lvl 70". So it will still be a hard learning process.

same for cthun :) 500k lightning chain is still uber damage, even at lvl 70 :P

[Telmar]

The four horsemen is completely do-able with a PUG. I've led it with 15-18 guild and 25ish randoms. You can do a very simple rotation with a healer or two in each group. Basically have 4 groups rotate through the front two and 4 through the back two. The burst from mograine (which was the hardest bit to deal with when we did it at 60) is negligable now you have double the HP. And taunt resists are easily deable with, as you can get up to 20k+ hp with cooldowns.

[Telmar]

And ye, if ppl are retarded, they wont be able to do either fight. Basic ability and understanding of ANY fight is needed once you step into the high level raid zones (BWL and above imo). You cant do nef without understanding the drakonid colors, nor do Chromaggus without a understanding of the breaths. At any level.

4HM and Cthun are a significant amount easier at 70 than they were at 60. Either should be learnable in less than 10 pulls.

[Stigg]

If you and your guildmates have never seen anything in the game, go do it. MC you can roll through, a good portion of AQ20 you can roll through, ZG is a joke. So, go do those, the gear will be worthless, but bring along a DE and sell all the shards you get (or ocmplete old sets you never thought you would be able to).

BWL is going to be a little more difficult, but still farily simple. the "Depression" room is a cinch now with the immense increase in +dmg and stamina, and assuming you can get through Vael, the rest is easy.

It is awesome to go back and see some of these places....by all means, do it if nothing else than for a moral booster. Just don't expect to be getting useful loot!

[Astross]

How long does it take to get to the Twin Emperor's in AQ40?

My guildmates and I were considering farming this boss for the rare Subtlety Enchant (2% threat reduction) to cloak.

Having never gone far in AQ40, i was wondering how long of a farm session are we in for?

[Telmar]

Hrm, with you not having done it before its hard to say. We could get there in about 1hr 30 at lvl 60, so we reckon we could do it in under an hour now. If you know nothing about the fights, probably 2-3hours

[Valshenna]

Would doing old content be productive in the guild progression sense (gear upgrades, recipes/forumulas, etc)? Probably not, and many above have said definitely not.

But would it be productive in the "hey lets hang out with friends and have a blast of a good time" sense? Hell yeah! Especially if you've hit a wall in Karazhan. If you're at a point where you're wiping ad nauseum each time you go there, maybe it's time to take a step back and do something that everyone would enjoy. Chances are that afterwards people will go back into Karazhan refreshed and ready to rock. Sometimes you need to just step back and sharpen the sword :wink:

[Xmcdaniel]

do it to shard purplz fer ur guild enchanter!

[kanitathedruid]

our guild has started trying to arrange trips back to old world content for tourist reasons for us 70s, but also if we tag some lvl 60s along with us then they can highly benefit from some of the gear coming out of these places. we are also thinking that it cements a guild together heading into places and feeling like you have accomplished something together.

[YamahaGuy]

For me, I dont care much for anything old world.

Its like, a time waster to me. Maybe to some its fun.

We did nax a little bit ago, went after the four horsemen. Probably the only fun moment of the evening.

The rest was just a joke, a bunch of 70's in hot gear beating the crap out of 60 level mobs.

LOLOL omg she only do 1k damage to me LOLOL!

meanwhile sitting there thinking.... this is what I gave up Friday night for?

The latest trend being, trying to convince people to go by telling them you can get "x gold" from a 10 man ony or whatever.

So yeah. The minute we heard 'naxx' after doing gruul or whatever, like 10 people immediately left raid. Not the only one. =)

[Telmar]

For me, I dont care much for anything old world.

Its like, a time waster to me. Maybe to some its fun.

We did nax a little bit ago, went after the four horsemen. Probably the only fun moment of the evening.

The rest was just a joke, a bunch of 70's in hot gear beating the crap out of 60 level mobs.

LOLOL omg she only do 1k damage to me LOLOL!

meanwhile sitting there thinking.... this is what I gave up Friday night for?

The latest trend being, trying to convince people to go by telling them you can get "x gold" from a 10 man ony or whatever.

So yeah. The minute we heard 'naxx' after doing gruul or whatever, like 10 people immediately left raid. Not the only one. =)

Yeah, I imagine giving up your friday raid to have a laugh in naxx was probably a horrific experiance >_<

Those ten people that left, you probably want to keep an eye on them. They'll be the ones missing progression raids, but turning up to pick up stuff once its on farm.

[YamahaGuy]

Some people enjoy it. To me, its like listening to an oldies record or something.

Especially when the motivational reason is because one key member wants ashbringer or the kara staff or a binding or.... w/e


Those ten people that left, you probably want to keep an eye on them. They'll be the ones missing progression raids, but turning up to pick up stuff once its on farm.

Naxx = deprogression / time machine

[clevins]

There's another thing to remember - as new people level up you'll have more and more people who have never seen Naxx, MC, Aq20/40, etc. OK, this won't happen if you only recruit very experienced people, but for a lot of guilds, this will happen.

That doesn't mean the raids are worth a lot of time but it can be fun for those of us who haven't seen them to pop into the old world raid zones just to be tourists.

[Axivyper]

I just started playing with the BC, so ive never experienced the older endgame content. How many well-geared (5-Man blues, some epics) people does it take to do MC? ZG? What would you recommend a new player experience, for the view/learning ability?

[dwarfenhelm]

also after reading this guide http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/btattunement/ do we not all need to go and do all the old world raids or is someone playiong a joke for attunement to the black temple.
every thing upto tempest keep raid looks very do able with the right people no matter how new to the game they are but this looks imposible unless youve been playing for a year or so

[Suicider]

It's a joke.

[Justinledwards]

We 13 manned MC including 2nd boss. That includes 2 level 60s. Got the TOEP which has only just been replaced :)

[Aswer]

Yesterday there was a PUG (led and attended mostly by experienced pre-TBC raiders) to AQ40 on my realm, some of my guildies that weren't in Magtheridon's lair attended, last i heard before going to sleep all the way to Fankriss included down. BTW Sartura's adds AoEd in the tunnel pewpew lazorbeamz. :D

[Shadowss]

The only reason I would go back to one of the lvl 60s raids would be get a legendary item because theirs a rumor that their going to be able to be upgraded to better items.

[xDarkDrifterx]

Have fun and run ZG for your Zanzabar Tribe Trinket =)

[Shadowpup]

Out of curiosity, how much better are 70's in these than 60's?

For instance (hah!) how many 70s would you need to run AQ 20 as well or better than 20 60's?

In other words, is each 70 as good as 2 60's? 3 60's?

[Fursphere]

Blizz said MC'd could be 15 manned at 70.

BWL - I would guess 20, due to adds and stuff.

Naxx - Probably 25...

AQ20 - 10 man, maybe even 5.

AQ40 - Probably 25 man again...

I think it would be good to take a brand new guild through MC and parts of BWL, just to get the "team" working together.... instead of cutting your teeth on brand new stuff that will be fustrating every time you wipe, go grind some old stuff, be tourists, and have FUN. Get a feel for what works and what doesn't IN YOUR GUILD.

And say hi to Ragnaros for me. /wave

[WatcherZero]

Since it requires rep to get the water to douse the runes and summon ragnaros I doubt a new group of non-60 raiders will see Rag as it requires a few weeks of trash clears to get the rep, and they wont wipe enough :)

[Telmar]

We took a lvl 70 pug to MC the other night for a laugh. Cleared the whole place in 1hr 30, 20 minutes of which was waiting for ppl to get more water to douse runes.

[dexterhall]

Some people enjoy the nostalgia - I'm just not one of them. I seriously doubt a new guild will learn anything useful from going into an instance designed for 40 level 60s. Farm the 5man instances, get the gear, read the tactics, go to Kara and heroics. Wiping and learning the encounters is part of the experience, and it's so much more rewarding when you down the boss. And i have to agree with some of the above posters, MC, AQ20, and ZG may be easy, but I doubt it will take just a few wipes to do the last bit of AQ or Naxx if noone has been there before.

[Kracker]

Ive never done any level 60 ENdgames except for Ony, there was a PUG and some 70's went and stuff but sometmes i wish TBC never came out so i couldve expierinced all the Fun and stuff, Only if i was in leroy's guild during that instance man i wouldve went crazy lol hes a legend what Realm is he on any way? oh well.. Guess ill have to find PUGs for the endgames.. MC,naxx, AQ, all that good stuff..