Damage Meters

[Katrala]

What's your opinion on damage meters?

I get tired of damage meters being spammed in party chat after each fight in instances and then the following arguement about whose damage meter is correct, etc.

It seems that when people are spamming damage meters from the beginning, the group is much more likely to wipe or have some serious issues as all the DPS competes to see who can "win."

I can see damage meters being useful in some situations (along with damage taken and healing) to discover problems in guild raids and groups or to personally assess your damage and make changes to your character as needed, but the competition between DPS gets ridiculous.

What's your take on it? Good thing or bad thing?

[Silverhand]

What's your opinion on damage meters?

I get tired of damage meters being spammed in party chat after each fight in instances and then the following arguement about whose damage meter is correct, etc.

It seems that when people are spamming damage meters from the beginning, the group is much more likely to wipe or have some serious issues as all the DPS competes to see who can "win."

I can see damage meters being useful in some situations (along with damage taken and healing) to discover problems in guild raids and groups or to personally assess your damage and make changes to your character as needed, but the competition between DPS gets ridiculous.

What's your take on it? Good thing or bad thing?


Mostly irrelevant - trending to bad. They can cause people to get too focused on one aspect of game play.

Cheers,

Silverhand

[Rysteranch]

The first time I saw a damage meter, was SFK, and I was playing a holy priest. Needless to say, I was at the bottom for the whole instance and made fun of it the whole time! DPS at 15K? I wooted my 1K! I ended up with ~5% at the end and shoved it in their faces just to make some fun. Lol.

Then, I asked for the healing meter and the tank had .7%, which he promptly shoved in my face FTW!!! I laughed so hard I thought I was going to wet my pants!

EDIT: Neither good or bad, just is.

[waltorly]

Damage meters shouldnt matter in any way to a healer or a tank, but sometimes you get that mage that thinks its a waste of dps time to sheep stuff and goes on a bunnyhopping AE rampage everytime u fight more than 1 mob and then yells at the tank for not holding aggro, nothing more annoying. I usually ignore the damage meter.

[PlayThemAll]

I have never used a damage meter. I really could care less about how much damage I put out, or anyone else for that matter.

If everyone would just be concerned about helping out everyone in the group and less concerned with topping this or that scale then more groups would go smoothly. If the group wipes, it matters not who did the most damage.

Maybe I'm just an anomaly but I always put the needs of the group above my own.

[Katrala]

I have never used a damage meter. I really could care less about how much damage I put out, or anyone else for that matter.

If everyone would just be concerned about helping out everyone in the group and less concerned with topping this or that scale then more groups would go smoothly. If the group wipes, it matters not who did the most damage.

Maybe I'm just an anomaly but I always put the needs of the group above my own.

This has been my opinion, too.

When I see damage meters start, I usually say, "I don't really care who does the most damage as long as we're all alive and we make it through the instance. Otherwise, we all lose."

[mesonm]

My lock couldn't care less...Most people don't push her off of the top....

[rgirty]

I like it in my groups, used correctly it is a great tool.

When I group with two rogues/hunters/mages I display the meter and they often get into a conversation as to why one person out dps'd the other since they are the same class. This leads to gear/spec discussions and both of them often benefit and do even more dps the next time.

Same occurs with two opposite classes, it promotes competition and leads to better class play if used correctly.

The thing about the meter is, if you are dead you aren't doing any dmg so #1 thing is not to break CC and not die else you slip on the meter.

We use it well IMO.

[Bobcat]

I like the damagemeter but I never post it in chat or compare myself to other players/classes, just fun info to have.

[rilot]

My raid comm has dubbed them "Wipe Meters" and they are banned from our community. Far too much temptation for high DPS classes to "just get above that Fury Warrior" and then pull aggro, wiping the raid.

[meikyo]

It's funny, I guarantee you the person spamming damage meter's is the person who is showing at the top. You won't see them do it if it doesn't show them at number 1. I was that person when I still played my rogue, personally it gave me something to strive for...to put out as much damage as I could without pulling hate, but I can see how it could put others into a frenzy thus causing more problems. If you're going to post damage meters....do it after the raid and not :

1.After quite a few magic immune mobs
2.After alot of aoe pulls

I'm sure you get it by now. Spamming while you're just an hour in is only going to cause problems, and waiting til the end is fair to everyone anyway.

[IRPander]

Threat meter > Damage meter

[rgirty]

I'm typically main healing as a holy priest. I'm not at the top of the meter.

[PTiger]

My raid comm has dubbed them "Wipe Meters" and they are banned from our community. Far too much temptation for high DPS classes to "just get above that Fury Warrior" and then pull aggro, wiping the raid.

Then you have noob DPS members. Everyone in my raid knows how to control their agro. We use DPS meters all the time and it's all fun and games. But if someone pulls agro without anyway of reducing it, and/or causes a wipe, there is a LOT of shame that is SELF-imposed on the person who did it. Not pulling agro off the tank is a skill learned 30 levels ago, and if someone still does it in Kara or Gruul or SSC, then really, they aren't playing well. The class leader will pull them aside and tell them to sack up.

[xDarkDrifterx]

I've got DM and I show it to the party - but instead of spamming it I simply ask if anyone is interested in any meter readings.

Various classes want to see different stuff . . .some DPS, some overall Damage, some Healing etc.

But spamming it for no reason can be annoying.

[rgirty]

Threat meter = damage meter more or less. The person who can best manage threat wins the dps battle more often than not.

[YamahaGuy]

Threat meter > Damage meter

I must agree :grin: One meter I win on all the time. The other, im next to the healers. Heh heh =)

[MapleBarb]

What's your opinion on damage meters?

I get tired of damage meters being spammed in party chat after each fight in instances and then the following arguement about whose damage meter is correct, etc.

It seems that when people are spamming damage meters from the beginning, the group is much more likely to wipe or have some serious issues as all the DPS competes to see who can "win."

I can see damage meters being useful in some situations (along with damage taken and healing) to discover problems in guild raids and groups or to personally assess your damage and make changes to your character as needed, but the competition between DPS gets ridiculous.

What's your take on it? Good thing or bad thing?thus far the only people I met in my server that have dmg meters are morons. One, who had asked me to heal at an istance, reminded me my priest hadnt done any dmg lol. Him and his friends (3 of them were lvl 70, and they were helping his lower lvl friend lvl up, so they had their chars in highly regard) also wanted to do this instance asap. So they pulled way too many monsters at the same time. Reminding them that we were going too quick and I was running out of mana trying to heal them didnt work. So after I got tired of this I just left. I mean was I supposed to heal AND do dmg? one thing's for sure: It "cured" me out of trying to do any instances. Now I just play by myself.

[IRPander]

Threat meter = damage meter more or less. The person who can best manage threat wins the dps battle more often than not.

As a hunter and warrior I use threat meter moreover then I use a damage meter. Threat meters help me know when to cool off on my yellow shots and let me know if i need more sunders or if i need to spam heroic strike some more.

[rgirty]

thus far the only people I met in my server that have dmg meters are morons. One, who had asked me to heal at an istance, reminded me my priest hadnt done any dmg lol. Him and his friends (3 of them were lvl 70, and they were helping his lower lvl friend lvl up, so they had their chars in highly regard) also wanted to do this instance asap. So they pulled way too many monsters at the same time. Reminding them that we were going too quick and I was running out of mana trying to heal them didnt work. So after I got tired of this I just left. I mean was I supposed to heal AND do dmg? one thing's for sure: It "cured" me out of trying to do any instances. Now I just play by myself.

Having a bad experience in a pug shouldn't turn you away from instances. You will have many good ones as well, don't shun them all especially if you are a priest.

[cyks]

Many meters, unless synched up before hand, don't see the whole picture... they don't include pets or damage caused more then a few yards away from them. This puts Warlocks and Hunters at a serious disadvantage to those who actually follow and believe in the meters.

As mentioned, many people are also against them because they don't show the whole picture. Sure, that Mage topped the charts by a landslide- but how many wipes (or close calls) were called from constantly pulling aggro?


I use them heavily for myself- and keep them private. If I upgrade gear or change a shot rotation, I want to see the difference it makes- good or bad. If I'm grouped with someone of equal or lesser gear then me, but is destroying me in damage, I want to know so I can find out why.

[DrOsmius]

Nothing against them per se, but I do think they cause more "harm" than help. The problem is that there are so many factors that they do not nor cannot measure (preaching to choir, I know).

In my mind, their most useful use to me is knowing who not to group with, i.e. anyone that is focused on the meter.

[bhroam]

IMHO there are 2 reasons to use a damage meter...

1) cyks's use is the best. If used by yourself to modify spec/weapon/gear/special attack rotation and see if it makes a difference.
2) As a raid/class leader to see trends in members. If one dps class is an order of magnitude under another, than you know they're not keeping up... You can suggest they try a different spec or gear up differently.

The standard way of using them is crap. The battle of who can top the damage meter is a surefire way to cause a wipe. Good players only occasionally cause one, morons cause them all the time.

Now don't get me wrong, I suffer from the 'oohhh look at me at the top of the meter, now let me stay there' syndrome. Fortunately for me I've only ever killed myself that way.

Recently I wanted to see one for one reason. I didn't really know how much my rogue alt was doing in the damage. I've been asked to bring him into kara. We recruited a new tank, and since I have an alt... we thought it'd work out this way. As it turns out I topped the meter the first night, and was 2nd the next.

I quickly noticed myself falling into the trap of wanting to stay there... and stopped looking at the meters.

We have a rule in kara... only post them at the end of the night.

[Metatron]

I keep a damage meter switched on for my own amusement. Nothing to be spammed. Like to check myself and see that I am pulling my weight as dps. If the tank goes ahead of me, am I really a worthwhile asset to the party? I don't spam it in the channel, and usually rogues and mages stop spamming it after a couple of boss fights and where I've really focused and pulled my weight.

But if anyone ever asks me to give a report, I just shove out healing done. Healing is such a thankless task and I'd much rather the healer got his big moment at the top of the charts than a chain aggroing dps class. Damage waits til the very end when we done.

As Brohm above me put it, the meters are for measuring and assessment purposes. See what classes stand where and who could use some tips and hints on how to improve their overall dps to come on par with their peers. It's the 'lol i pwn yoo' people that drive me nuts. Not an asset to a party if you just trying to cause the most aggro.

[rgirty]

Healing taken is a great meter as well. If you can top the damage done, you should also look at the damage or healing taken meter.

[Mallstrop]

I use the SWS damage meter, it also records which attacks are being used which is a great indicator of how good a player is.

[shifttusk]

<< My raid comm has dubbed them "Wipe Meters" and they are banned from our community. Far too much temptation for high DPS classes to "just get above that Fury Warrior" and then pull aggro, wiping the raid. >>

<<When I see damage meters start, I usually say, "I don't really care who does the most damage as long as we're all alive and we make it through the instance. Otherwise, we all lose.">>

<<It seems that when people are spamming damage meters from the beginning, the group is much more likely to wipe or have some serious issues as all the DPS competes to see who can "win.">>

The whole point of DPS is to do the MAXIMUM the very very very maximum dmg without pulling agro off of the tank. If you don't use dmg meters (and yes they need to be syncd) you can't see if someone is slacking. Everyone should be trying to "win" without pulling agro. This would mean all your DPSers special skills asside are around equal. Without dmg meters how are you going to ID a dps person not dpsing enough. Exactly when you hit a dps intensive fight and your healer can't keep the party alive because they're out of mana. From vaels to curators to gruuls there are fights many guilds will wipe on over and over because they don't pay attention to the need for the max dps possible. Learning your limit through one wipe is alot better than being stuck on a boss for 2 months with 1000g in wipe repairs and another 2k in consumables. But hey thats just me.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

I thought Damage Meters were somewhat fun when the mod first came out. Then I saw how people were using it to push some elitist tripe around and mock people. In the end, I ditched the idea. I really could care less about Damage Meters.

[galermon]

Damage meter is just a tool. How the players that react to it, is the problem or issue. It's like when someone tells you "Money is the root of all evil". That being said, I don't have nor do I use any mods when I play WoW.

I do run into people every now and than that use damage meters though, but surprisingly not that many (at least not publicly in group). It is interesting information when it is posted though. I am usually pretty observant to what others are doing while instancing, so when I do see a damage meter pop up it usually just confirms what I have been watching the other DPSers doing.

For example, I have had lots of runs where I have seen MM hunters or equally equipped or better fire mages or rogues do nothing but take aggro on lots of trash pulls. Then half way through the instance someone puts up a damage meter. I have not pulled aggro once from the tank, have inferior equipment yet I have done ALOT more damage than anyone else. In fact last night I ran heroic mechanar with 2 fire mages, warrior, shadow priest, and healadin.
The fire mage other than myself was equipped with about +170 more spdmg, 1.5% more crit. I did 1,000,400 dmg. He did 599,000.

When the mage pulled up the damage meter, I privately messaged him and let him know to just tone it down in the beginning of fights cause I have seen him constantly pulling aggro throughout the instance. The damage meter just re-affirmed that.

[Sarc]

In my opinion, damage meters are better suited as a guide and that's primarily how we utilize them. When used correctly, they do make a decent indicator to show if people are where they should be. At the same time though, we do frown upon showing them off for bragging rights. The people that top the damage charts are usually the ones who don't mention them at all, and similar to other people's posts, they don't mean a thing if you wipe. Also not a priority on progression runs as well.

Our guild also uses SW stats, as we feel is portrays a more accurate result.

[coani]

I like Recap for seeing individual stats on hits & misses/resists... helps to see what is working and what isn't.. and in some cases helps to spot if someone is doing something wrong (like hunter still using aimed shot in shot rotation ;p

epeen slapping dmg/heal spam however is boring.
and nothing is more irritating than someone spamming dmg meter stats after every boss, every 2nd trash pull, all the bloody time.

[amgyn]

i was tracking damage meters the other day on one of our kara raids and noticed that one of our warlocks was 6th down the list.. (this was a better geared warlock).. i talk to raid leader and we both noticed that all they did was put up dots and stand there, with the occasional bolt.. anyway, 2 pulls later we replaced her.

[Leandar]

Damage meters should onl be used after bosses or at the end of the dungeon. I get annoyed when the damage meter dosent include my pet because I add my pet's % of damage to mine. I did Ramparts earlier and the mage had one, he used it only when asked about it. He had a healing meter too, the funny thing is that my pet was on it.

[Twoflower]

I can see damage meters being useful in some situations (along with damage taken and healing) to discover problems in guild raids and groups or to personally assess your damage and make changes to your character as needed, but the competition between DPS gets ridiculous.

What's your take on it? Good thing or bad thing?

exactly what they are used for.

Good.

I have never used a damage meter. I really could care less about how much damage I put out, or anyone else for that matter.

If everyone would just be concerned about helping out everyone in the group and less concerned with topping this or that scale then more groups would go smoothly. If the group wipes, it matters not who did the most damage.

Maybe I'm just an anomaly but I always put the needs of the group above my own.

Erm, you know, for Damage dealers, helping the group IS putting out damage. The new instances are less forgiving in terms of lazy damage dealers. 3th boss in shadow lab for example, if you dont nuke him down fast you will never make it. So, in short, the group DOES need damage dealers who do the best they can. And damage meters help discover who does and who does not.

My raid comm has dubbed them "Wipe Meters" and they are banned from our community. Far too much temptation for high DPS classes to "just get above that Fury Warrior" and then pull aggro, wiping the raid.

how sad.

In guild raids, i find damage meters a very helpful tool for analysis. Completely ignoring them just because of some superstition is not helpful, at best :)

[AeroJonesy]

I used to think they didn't help much. But I use them now. I don't find them particularly useful in dungeons (5-man runs) because of the need for people to adapt to the situation. If a warlock is banishing and fearing, he or she won't be putting out the same damage as the rogue just backstabbing away.

Where I do find them useful is on raid bosses. If one hunter is far below the other 2, you know there's a problem. But no need to watch the meter during the fight, just checck it out afterward and see who needs some help.

[Valshenna]

And anyone doing less DPS than the tanks really needs help. That used to happen all the time in MC runs I used to go on--and it was often a few of our warlocks!

[Schift]

And anyone doing less DPS than the tanks really needs help. That used to happen all the time in MC runs I used to go on--and it was often a few of our warlocks!

Depends on the situation and your tank :wink:

j/k I know what you mean even though Druid tanks before the nerf and Prot Paladins tanking several mobs at a time put out lots of damage.

That was off topic, but damage meters are a tool and just because a hammer could be used in bad ways doesn't mean that they are useless. Use them in context and for analysis in order to improve, and they are a very good thing. It is important to take into consideration what kind of encounter you are facing and why this type of encounter will be an advantage or disadvantage in overall damage for certain classes and get a good idea from that. Also consider buff and assisting classes. For instance a melee class will benefit from an enhancement shaman's windfury and AP bonus from crit and even more with a feral druid's LotP. Many classes synergize well together and have certain advantages in certain encounters and against certain enemies.

A simplistic, "Look I am beating you on the damage meter, I'm better than you." is a terrible thing without these considerations and yes, that is sometimes a problem in PuGs.

Damage, Healing, Damage+Healing, Damage Taken, Healing Taken, etc... meters are useful and should definitely be used depending on how serious you take the game.

[LucidSpirit]

I have never used a damage meter. I really could care less about how much damage I put out, or anyone else for that matter.

If everyone would just be concerned about helping out everyone in the group and less concerned with topping this or that scale then more groups would go smoothly. If the group wipes, it matters not who did the most damage.

Maybe I'm just an anomaly but I always put the needs of the group above my own.

Now that's what a call a team player -- I would have you in my group anytime :cool:

[Telmar]

I have never used a damage meter. I really could care less about how much damage I put out, or anyone else for that matter.

If everyone would just be concerned about helping out everyone in the group and less concerned with topping this or that scale then more groups would go smoothly. If the group wipes, it matters not who did the most damage.

Maybe I'm just an anomaly but I always put the needs of the group above my own.

As a DPSer, your job to help out the group is to do as much damage as possible without drawing agro. Meters arent the problem here, your DPSers are. Agro was learnt in MC, send them back there if they cant do it by now.

[Telmar]

Where I do find them useful is on raid bosses. If one hunter is far below the other 2, you know there's a problem. But no need to watch the meter during the fight, just checck it out afterward and see who needs some help.

Completely agree. If someone links a damage meter in our raids without it being requested by myself or whoever is leading at the time, then they're warned that we dont do that in our guild. If they do it again, they get removed. Simple as that, follow the rules or find another raid to join, I dont want you in mine.

DPS Meters are great for working out who is letting the side down after a enrage caused wipe. If DPS is too low, and you have one rogue putting out half the DPS of another, then you know they're doing something wrong. If they dont fix it for the next go, then again they'll be replaced.

If you dont know how much DPS someone is doing though, how can you know if they're the one letting the side down or not?

[Naolin]

depends how you use them, as e-peen meters i hate them. For raids they might be handy, but seeing I never raid (and even if I do I'll probably join as healer) I wont bother using them.

[Kugan]

I find damage meters only useful if it is “spammed” with damage taken meters. But even that doesn’t always show the entire truth (as a tank, I usually keep an extra close eye on the trouble makers, ready to bubble them or taunt the mobs of them. It might take a second or two to realise that someone that doesn’t normally steal aggro is getting pounded on).

[Eratia]

I had my first negative experience with a damage meter on my little pally the other night.

I was healing through RFK and one of the members was spamming his damage meter and constantly ranting on about how I was doing no damage. It was kind of frustrating. I can understand how a healing priest could do damage--if they can afford the mana they can use some of their offensive spells at range or wand when not healing. But as a low level pally, I have to get in the fray to do damage, which is exactly what a healer shouldn't do.

Of course, the guy who was posting the damage meter wouldn't hear any of it--seems you can't reason with people sometimes.

Still interesting to see the damage meter, though. Our mage was performing badly, largely because he was pulling mobs and making the tank work to get aggro back. It was a good illustration of some of the golden rules for pulling I've seen people talk about on here.

[Kugan]

I had my first negative experience with a damage meter on my little pally the other night.

I was healing through RFK and one of the members was spamming his damage meter and constantly ranting on about how I was doing no damage. It was kind of frustrating. I can understand how a healing priest could do damage--if they can afford the mana they can use some of their offensive spells at range or wand when not healing. But as a low level pally, I have to get in the fray to do damage, which is exactly what a healer shouldn't do.

Of course, the guy who was posting the damage meter wouldn't hear any of it--seems you can't reason with people sometimes.

Still interesting to see the damage meter, though. Our mage was performing badly, largely because he was pulling mobs and making the tank work to get aggro back. It was a good illustration of some of the golden rules for pulling I've seen people talk about on here.


Yeah, bunch of stupid people you grouped with there. Don’t worry about it much, even if you jumped into the fray (as you rightly said you shouldn’t), you wouldn’t have done that much damage.

Come heal me when you grow up! I’ll be grateful (and I’ll kick anyone that gives you trouble :laugh: )

[shifttusk]

I still stand with DMG meters = good tool. For example heroic 5man looking like this:

Shifttusk (survival hunter) - 34%
Duder afliction warlock - 27%
Duder combat dags rogue - 20%
Tusks Pet - 4%

this is an issue and should be resolved. No spam, one send saying hey the hunter is 11% over the warlock he needs to pick up his pace.

[Telmar]

I still stand with DMG meters = good tool. For example heroic 5man looking like this:

Shifttusk (survival hunter) - 34%
Duder afliction warlock - 27%
Duder combat dags rogue - 20%
Tusks Pet - 4%

this is an issue and should be resolved. No spam, one send saying hey the hunter is 11% over the warlock he needs to pick up his pace.

Far more worrying than that is the fact your combat dagger rogue is 14% below. He should be at around 30-35% damage done, along with the afflication lock, with the Hunter coming in at around 25-30% and the tank making up any of the rest. That is provided they're all equally geared/potted.

[Sherkhan]

Personaly I use a damage / heal meter to measure my own performance. They (in my opinion) should not be spammed during a run - unless you are in a bio break, etc. Otherwise they are a great tool to measure you own performance.

Unfortunately far too many people see only the damage numbers and forget about the other things a class or player may (or may not) be doing. A hunter in crowd control mode (be it traps, kiting, whatever) - this will change the numbers, does not show on the meter, but may be vital to success.

They have a purpose, but spamming them after every single fight is just way too much (and as a healer myself - well, if it was after every fight I would probably have to make an excuse and leave). DPS is all well and good, but DPS competitions lend themselves to everyone pulling aggro, wich leads to people dying no matter what the healer does, which gets the healer yelled at for something that is not the healers fault. Sorry, but that is not my idea of fun anymore.

[Magikhat]

I hate damage meters as a priest. Its like thanks for racing to win dps which doesent matter and pulling aggro off the tank and making my job harder.

[DraedynLei]

I find damage meters only useful if it is “spammed” with damage taken meters.

LOL. Yup. In my raid I have two goals, top 3 in dps and bottom 3 in damage taken. Usually I'm right above our two main healers. But for those who don't think it's useful, I think they're just turned off by the spammers. We use it in raid especially when we bring along a new dps or healer to gauge how they are in comparison with the rest of the group. Are they completely accurate? Nope, not by a long shot. But we all try to use SWS and sync up. On some fights you just run around too much and people go out of range. But it still gives you a rough idea of what happened during a raid. We also keep a death count :)

Also threat meter is > > > damage meter.

[BradleyOrr]

Personally I love damage meters. But then again I'm a mage! :tongue:

Mine stays on my own screen, right next to the threat meters. Used together they're a great tool to see how I'm holding up against other dps classes. They stay on my screen too and only venture into /p if someone requests to see them. Even then it's a one off at the end of the instance when the readings will actually have some consistency to them. Spamming them is kind of pointless.

They can make people lose a little focus though - I remember being shouted at in ZG by someone for being near the bottom of the damage meters after one encounter (name of the boss escapes me now) until I pointed out I was on sheeping duty for most of the fight...

[Astross]

damage meters are awesome to see how that new mage/rogue recruit is doing...and to see which nooobs are slacking so they can get the /gkick

[Telmar]

I hate damage meters as a priest. Its like thanks for racing to win dps which doesent matter and pulling aggro off the tank and making my job harder.

Thats not a problem with damage meters, thats a problem with your DPSers.

[meikyo]

http://www.darklegacycomics.com/46.html

I think some are missing the point. There's nothing wrong with damage meter's(provided they're accurate), but it's a bad idea to post them during raids. If you use them to track potential problems with dps'ers or maybe keep track of you own performance then it's being used right...just keep it to yourself just because one person asks doesn't mean the whole raid wants to see(you know you jump at that chance). Class leads should be paying attention to this among many other things about their members and bringing it to their attention after raids.