2.1 whose over/underpowered now?

[Azmyth]

with the patch going live today...

what are your thoughts on which classes will become OP while others that were OP become underpowered?

I know this mainly focuses around pvp.. but there is some pve usage for some classes too.

I'm a druid.. and I want to know where I stand..

[Fursphere]

Go play and decide for yourself?

[Xmcdaniel]

If there isn't a significant nerf to warlocks (and I don't think there is), then it's still warlocks that are the most overpowered:

Excellent raid utility, highest DPS, a variety of pets, free mounts, soulstones, unbreakable (for the most part) crowd control, DoT's that last even after the lock is dead, best survivability of any cloth wearer...need I go on?

At the moment, warlocks are the most dominant class in PvP AND PvE.

[djiss]

with the patch going live today...

what are your thoughts on which classes will become OP while others that were OP become underpowered?

I know this mainly focuses around pvp.. but there is some pve usage for some classes too.

I'm a druid.. and I want to know where I stand..

do you want to know what class will be the savor of the month to re-roll it and pew-pew in pvp? i think it's still the lock

[Stigg]

djiss got nerfed. bad.

[Rex Normal]

I wish I could get in on this overpowered warlock action cuz I aint seeing it.


Honestly I feel the game is pretty well balanced. If you feel a class is overpowered, they are likely your counter class.

[djiss]

djiss got nerfed. bad.
my shaman?
Nah, I knew from lv 1 downranking WF on offhand will be nerfed one day, so I never really used it unless in PvP (mouahaha me xploit gam3).

[Azmyth]

actually.. I'm deciding whether to take mage or lock as my new main for arena pvp and world pvp..

can't make up my mind.

[DevilDare]

haha i am back!

Well what i love tht its the end of those filthy old twinks who keep on ruining my WSG game xD

Well all i wanted to say

(yey twinks are dead)

[Nitsujcm]

Are you kidding? we are ALL under powered - hence the super slow raid progression and blizz buffing tons of gear.


OP? Give me a break....

Well geared Mage crits a pyro blast on someone who just dinged 70 and they cry OVERPOWERD!

That same mage gets two shotted 5 min later and they cry OVERPOWERED ROGUES!

That rogue gets chain feared by a lock and cry OVERPOWERED!

That lock gets owned by a BM hunter and cry OVERPOWERED!

If your a pally, don't expect to two shot anyone- if your a rogue, don't complain when you can't take 4 mobes at once. Some classes are BETTER for PVP and some are BETTER for PVE and some are BETTER for arenas- none of them are overpowered.


Everytime a class gets a nerf 3 guilds on each swerver stop progressing.
(Please note all facts in this post were made up on the spot.)

[Xaintrix]

Unless you're a Shaman, or until you get whapped in the package by the nerf sledgehammer, you have no right to call yourself underpowered.

*edit* Though I don't mind the Priests or Warriors as much. Can't tick off your fellow healers and unsung hero tanks now can we? :laugh:

[Astayanax]

I won't say that any class are 'overpowered'; just that some has been designed fully and solid (like warlocks) whereas others are having huge design issues with their classes (like mages and hunters) for certain aspects of the game.

As much as Blizzard claimed they will not do other class reviews, I just don't see how this could be done with the current state of the game. They pretty much admit that shamans on the whole will be looked at as well as "Ret" pallies. I also expect mages to be looked at again when most guilds are at the T5-T6 era since at this time, they will be among the weakest dps class for pve. As for hunters, Blizzard said they will continued being tweaked as necessarily until their dps is at a satisfactory level.

In other words, if you think you are 'underpowered' now in your expected roles, it will eventually be looked into.

[Xaintrix]

They've said that for years. Fundamental problems still haven't been addressed. Both the clearcasting and windfury nerfs I actually understand - even logical to a certain degree. That is if we had certain things addressed and fixed before them. This doesn't mean "GIVE US CC, GIVE US AGGRO DUMP" - we'll take any effective solution. This though, isn't it.

There's no give to this take that can act as a shield for all this criticism (and unfair flaming - bit extreme with the middle fingers I think)

[fzyx]

Are you kidding? we are ALL under powered - hence the super slow raid progression and blizz buffing tons of gear.


OP? Give me a break....

Well geared Mage crits a pyro blast on someone who just dinged 70 and they cry OVERPOWERD!

That same mage gets two shotted 5 min later and they cry OVERPOWERED ROGUES!

That rogue gets chain feared by a lock and cry OVERPOWERED!

That lock gets owned by a BM hunter and cry OVERPOWERED!

If your a pally, don't expect to two shot anyone- if your a rogue, don't complain when you can't take 4 mobes at once. Some classes are BETTER for PVP and some are BETTER for PVE and some are BETTER for arenas- none of them are overpowered.


Everytime a class gets a nerf 3 guilds on each swerver stop progressing.
(Please note all facts in this post were made up on the spot.)

The problem with this is that not every mage has pyro and not every hunter is a BM hunter. All locks can fear, dot, and hide behind a pet if I'm not mistaken.

[Ryste]

The problem with this is that not every mage has pyro and not every hunter is a BM hunter. All locks can fear, dot, and hide behind a pet if I'm not mistaken.

All class can interrupt fear, and break out of fear within 2 seconds.

[fzyx]

All class can interrupt fear, and break out of fear within 2 seconds.

How do you figure?

[Ryste]

How do you figure?

warrior: immune to fear, blah blah blah, don't even need to mention.

rogue: cloak of shadow, pvp trinket (2 minute timer), kick, gouge, blind, vanish, all interrupts fear cast. Plus WoTF which 90% of the horde rogues have, or aoe silence by Blood elf. potentially 8 interrupts/breaks.

druid: pvp trinket, feral charge, bash. If you are horde, warstomp. 1 way to break fear, 3 ways to stop fear being cast.

priest: pvp trinket. If you are undead, wotf which 99% of the horde priests are. If you spec 20 points in shadow, you get silence to stop fear being cast for 5 seconds. Dwarf and draenai priests, fear ward.

paladin: pvp trinket, bubble, instant hammer of justice, instant repentence if the paladin spec ret. Horde paladins, aoe silence.

shaman: earth shock, grounding totem, tremor totem.

hunter: silencing shot to stop fear being cast, feign death to stop fear being cast. Pet abilities intimidation stun 3 seconds. 41 yard range compare to 26 yard range of fear. Scatter shot, wyvern shot both also interrupt fear. instant shots compare to 1.5 second cast on fear. Beast within also make them immune to fear, death coil, and charm.

Mage: pvp trinket, silence, ice block. Horde mages, wotf, aoe silence.

[Xaintrix]

Earth Shock? If we can get in range of you and it's timed right. Many ways to keep us kited far away enough.

Grounding Totem? Nice if you immolate or shadow bolt us. Hasn't stopped fear.

Tremor Totem? You've...played a shaman right? You're damn lucky if you can get that thing to proc before you've fled in terror out of its area of effect.

[Ryste]

HAHHAHAHA *cough*

Earth Shock? If we can get in range of you and it's timed right. Many ways to keep us kited far away enough.

Grounding Totem? Nice if you immolate or shadow bolt us. Hasn't stopped fear.

Tremor Totem? You've...played a shaman right? You're damn lucky if you can get that thing to proc before you've fled in terror out of its area of effect.

Then spec elemental to extend your earth shock range.

You know fear has the same range as your shocks. 20 yards untalent, 24 yards talented.

If warlock going to use 2.5 seconds to shadow bolt you, consider yourself lucky going up against a crappy warlock. I am not here to hold your hands and teach you how to play, the tools are out there for you, if you dont' know how to use it to the maximum potential, blame nobody but yourself.

[shifttusk]

If there isn't a significant nerf to warlocks (and I don't think there is), then it's still warlocks that are the most overpowered:

Excellent raid utility, highest DPS, a variety of pets, free mounts, soulstones, unbreakable (for the most part) crowd control, DoT's that last even after the lock is dead, best survivability of any cloth wearer...need I go on?

At the moment, warlocks are the most dominant class in PvP AND PvE.

You forgot coolest looking armor?

<<If you feel a class is overpowered, they are likely your counter class.>>

Every other classes counterclass is a warlock. Locks are just very powerfull right now. A complete nub warlock could dominate a battleground just by tab dotting and fearing people. Skillcoil if getting hit. A skilled warlock is even worse.


<<hunter: silencing shot to stop fear being cast, feign death to stop fear being cast. Pet abilities intimidation stun 3 seconds. 41 yard range compare to 26 yard range of fear. Scatter shot, wyvern shot both also interrupt fear. instant shots compare to 1.5 second cast on fear. Beast within also make them immune to fear, death coil, and charm.>> First off intimidation is one spec not all hunters, silence and scatter are another and wyvern is the third. Either way each of the following buy you:

intimidation stun 3 seconds -> Yep but you're not going to kill a same level warlock in 3 seconds, if you time it right it could win you the fight. Beastwrath wins vs a warlock if you're geared enough but is on a 2 minute cooldown.

Silence -> Buys you 3 seconds not going to win you the fight.

Scatter -> Buys you a max of 4 and you cannot deal dmg at this time

Wyvern -> Buys you 1 cast and time to do 1 shot on a 2 minute cooldown

FD -> Buys you one cast of fear

We have a few nice solutions but none are enough to make it a fair fight and just about all are on a cooldown. Those that arent scatter/silence don't buy you enough time. My solution to warlocks = wyvern sting and run and let two rogues deal with them.

[fzyx]

warrior: immune to fear, blah blah blah, don't even need to mention.

rogue: cloak of shadow, pvp trinket (2 minute timer), kick, gouge, blind, vanish, all interrupts fear cast. Plus WoTF which 90% of the horde rogues have, or aoe silence by Blood elf. potentially 8 interrupts/breaks.

druid: pvp trinket, feral charge, bash. If you are horde, warstomp. 1 way to break fear, 3 ways to stop fear being cast.

priest: pvp trinket. If you are undead, wotf which 99% of the horde priests are. If you spec 20 points in shadow, you get silence to stop fear being cast for 5 seconds. Dwarf and draenai priests, fear ward.

paladin: pvp trinket, bubble, instant hammer of justice, instant repentence if the paladin spec ret. Horde paladins, aoe silence.

shaman: earth shock, grounding totem, tremor totem.

hunter: silencing shot to stop fear being cast, feign death to stop fear being cast. Pet abilities intimidation stun 3 seconds. 41 yard range compare to 26 yard range of fear. Scatter shot, wyvern shot both also interrupt fear. instant shots compare to 1.5 second cast on fear.

Mage: pvp trinket, silence, ice block. Horde mages, wotf, aoe silence.

Yeah, there are many options for interrupting the cast.

I'm more concerned with breaking out of it before the dots do much damage. Options seem to be trinkets, racials, or things like ice-block, all of which typically have a long cooldown. In a BG or world pvp, you rarely have the opportunity to interrupt the cast because you don't even know a lock has singled you out.

Not to mention, nothing but diminishing returns is stopping them from fearing you again. At which point, unless you picked your class/race very wisely, you're back to being screwed...

[Xaintrix]

Oh please hold my hand! Tell me this glorious talent in the elemental tree that allows a shaman to extend your earth shock range!

Oh wait, you can't, because it doesn't exist.

Very nice telling me to play using tools that are figments of your imagination.

[stegmst]

Are you kidding? we are ALL under powered - hence the super slow raid progression and blizz buffing tons of gear.


OP? Give me a break....

Well geared Mage crits a pyro blast on someone who just dinged 70 and they cry OVERPOWERD!

That same mage gets two shotted 5 min later and they cry OVERPOWERED ROGUES!

That rogue gets chain feared by a lock and cry OVERPOWERED!

That lock gets owned by a BM hunter and cry OVERPOWERED!

If your a pally, don't expect to two shot anyone- if your a rogue, don't complain when you can't take 4 mobes at once. Some classes are BETTER for PVP and some are BETTER for PVE and some are BETTER for arenas- none of them are overpowered.


Everytime a class gets a nerf 3 guilds on each swerver stop progressing.
(Please note all facts in this post were made up on the spot.)


I agree. I am tired of everytime someone runs into a different player class and that other class is better at playing there toon it is because they are overpowered. You might be the best player on your server and just have a bad day and loose to someone else. There is no one class is better in every instance. It depends on your build,gear:thumbsup: and who is behind the keyboard.

[Ryste]

Yeah, there are many options for interrupting the cast.

I'm more concerned with breaking out of it before the dots do much damage. Options seem to be trinkets, racials, or things like ice-block, all of which typically have a long cooldown. In a BG or world pvp, you rarely have the opportunity to interrupt the cast because you don't even know a lock has singled you out.

In world pvp, it's 99% 1v1, 1v2, pretty obvious when a warlock is going to cast fear. Besides, if you are going up against 1v2, you shouldn't expect to come out alive if they are anything but retarded.

In BG, you have your team mates, you can always target the warlock out first or stand 24 yards away from a warlock. There are directional arrow buttons on your keyboard to help you do that.

How are they going to cast again if you can just stop the cast?

for example:

mage - silence, that's 8 seconds (new patch) he can't cast fear. 8 seconds later, the warlock is going to cast fear again, you see the hand glowing dark, get ready to press that wotf button or pvp trinket. If they are going to cast again, get ready for that ice block button. or in some case, stay 24 yards away so he can't get in range for the fear.

[fzyx]

I agree. I am tired of everytime someone runs into a different player class and that other class is better at playing there toon it is because they are overpowered. You might be the best player on your server and just have a bad day and loose to someone else. There is no one class is better in every instance. It depends on your build,gear:thumbsup: and who is behind the keyboard.

And your class and the specific situation. Its clearly not just build, gear, and the person behind the keyboard.

[Ryste]

Oh please hold my hand! Tell me this glorious talent in the elemental tree that allows a shaman to extend your earth shock range!

Oh wait, you can't, because it doesn't exist.

Very nice telling me to play using tools that are figments of your imagination.

What? You don't have talents to extand shock range and lower cooldown? Probably has one with lower cooldown right?

Go on and pick the 1 thing I might got wrong in the post. Thank you very much. You can go back to getting roll by warlocks now.

[zzzzzzz]

Yeah, there are many options for interrupting the cast.

I'm more concerned with breaking out of it before the dots do much damage. Options seem to be trinkets, racials, or things like ice-block, all of which typically have a long cooldown. In a BG or world pvp, you rarely have the opportunity to interrupt the cast because you don't even know a lock has singled you out.

Fear was nerfed with this patch. Fear now has a higher chance of breaking with ANY damage being done. So basically if you get feared then doted each time the dot ticks it has a chance of breaking the fear. This is a Huge nerf to PVP locks and somewhat PVE locks who like to use fear/kiting in heroic instances. After each fear it already is shorter until basically your immune (pvp). Also Death Coil is now part of the deminishing returns (or however its spelled) meaning if a rogue persay stun locks you and you need to DC him to gets some distance then fear the fear will break a hell of alot quicker.

I could care less as I don't PVP much but for all the people complaining about locks and their fear tactics looks like your QQ'ing has worked for you.

Congrats

[fzyx]

In world pvp, it's 99% 1v1, 1v2, pretty obvious when a warlock is going to cast fear. Besides, if you are going up against 1v2, you shouldn't expect to come out alive if they are anything but retarded.

In BG, you have your team mates, you can always target the warlock out first or stand 24 yards away from a warlock. There are directional arrow buttons on your keyboard to help you do that.

OK.

Think of fear as being exactly like sheep. Now tell me how fear is greatly overpowered compared to sheep?

I just can't wait for the day when things are "balanced" again and warlock's are slapped down off their high horse :) EDIT : The high horse they didn't have to pay for...

[Ryste]

Fear was nerfed with this patch. Fear now has a higher chance of breaking with ANY damage being done. So basically if you get feared then doted each time the dot ticks it has a chance of breaking the fear. This is a Huge nerf to PVP locks and somewhat PVE locks who like to use fear/kiting in heroic instances. After each fear it already is shorter until basically your immune (pvp). Also Death Coil is now part of the deminishing returns (or however its spelled) meaning if a rogue persay stun locks you and you need to DC him to gets some distance then fear the fear will break a hell of alot quicker.

I could care less as I don't PVP much but for all the people complaining about locks and their fear tactics looks like your QQ'ing has worked for you.

Congrats

DC is on a seperate DR than fear.

One is horrified effect, one is fear effect.

[Xaintrix]

Deathcoil only has diminishing returns on horror effects. Deathcoil only has diminishing returns on itself at the moment.

[fzyx]

Fear was nerfed with this patch. Fear now has a higher chance of breaking with ANY damage being done. So basically if you get feared then doted each time the dot ticks it has a chance of breaking the fear. This is a Huge nerf to PVP locks and somewhat PVE locks who like to use fear/kiting in heroic instances. After each fear it already is shorter until basically your immune (pvp). Also Death Coil is now part of the deminishing returns (or however its spelled) meaning if a rogue persay stun locks you and you need to DC him to gets some distance then fear the fear will break a hell of alot quicker.

I could care less as I don't PVP much but for all the people complaining about locks and their fear tactics looks like your QQ'ing has worked for you.

Congrats

We'll see how much of a different the "nerf" actually makes. Haven't logged in yet to check out the new patch.

[Ryste]

OK.

Think of fear as being exactly like sheep. Now tell me how fear is greatly overpowered compared to sheep?

I just can't wait for the day when things are "balanced" again and warlock's are slapped down off their high horse :) EDIT : The high horse they didn't have to pay for...

Warlocks regular mount is free. epic mount cost as much as the paladin mount, and it uses mana. Who wants that anyways, better just to pay 30 BG tokens for that mount.

Most high rated alliance warlocks in arena don't rely on fear doing 100%-0% anyways. I don't see a big deal with it. In arena, fear lasts 2-4 seconds already, the "nerf" won't change that.

[icutyoubad]

When the hell did this become the official WoW boards?

How about less QQ and more pew pew, eh? What happened to that mentality?

Warlocks got a small nerf this patch, by the way. Fear breaks much more easily now. From what I've heard (haven't been able to play yet today) it's essentially useless. Deathcoil is good only for getting some HP back. If it lasts the whole 3 seconds, I can get a fear off, which will then break on the very next dot tick. Warlocks are NOT the overpowered class you all are saying they are. You're all coming from a 1v1 perspecitve, which is crap. WoW PvP does NOT revolve around 1v1, it is designed from a BG perspective.

In the BGs, my life expectancy is between 5 and 15 seconds usually. The problem is, everyone BELIEVES this crap about warlocks being overpowered, so I get targeted and focus fired to death immediately. I mean, they go after me before the priest! Do you REALLY think if you leave me alive I'm going to be able to take down the WHOLE alliance AV team by myself?

I can remember the days when I would top the KB, HK, Damage and all that in BGs, but it hasn't been that way in a LONG time.

[Rex Normal]

You forgot coolest looking armor?

<<If you feel a class is overpowered, they are likely your counter class.>>

Every other classes counterclass is a warlock. Locks are just very powerfull right now. A complete nub warlock could dominate a battleground just by tab dotting and fearing people. Skillcoil if getting hit. A skilled warlock is even worse.


Oh go back under your bridge. I defy you to provide me with 10 consecutive screenies of BG scoreboards where warlocks are regularly dominating the battle. I consider myself to be fairly adept at my class and have yet to be #1 on the scoreboard. I usually see hunters and warriors at the top.

Are you honestly saying that Rogues, Hunters, and Warriors are complaining about warlocks being OP? They are our counter classes. If any of them are regularly defeated by warlocks they aren't worth the pixels they are made of.

And people, please don't cry about Warlocks being able to beat you because of your spec. If your class has a spec option to outclass another, but you don't choose to use it, that does not make the other class overpowered to yours, you just choose to use an underpowered spec.

Finally, why are warlocks being singled out for fear? we aren't the only class that uses it. I get feared by priests more often than I get feared by warlocks. Heck, I don't even use fear anymore because there are so many ways for my opponent to inturrupt/break out of it and that means I just wasted a global cooldown on something that didn't do any damage giving my opponent an advantage. Sure I'll use it if the target doesn't see me coming or is occupied with something else, but what rogue wouldn't open with a kidneyshot when given the chance, or warrior charge, or druid pounce, etc.

[fzyx]

When the hell did this become the official WoW boards?

How about less QQ and more pew pew, eh? What happened to that mentality?

Warlocks got a small nerf this patch, by the way. Fear breaks much more easily now. From what I've heard (haven't been able to play yet today) it's essentially useless. Deathcoil is good only for getting some HP back. If it lasts the whole 3 seconds, I can get a fear off, which will then break on the very next dot tick. Warlocks are NOT the overpowered class you all are saying they are. You're all coming from a 1v1 perspecitve, which is crap. WoW PvP does NOT revolve around 1v1, it is designed from a BG perspective.

In the BGs, my life expectancy is between 5 and 15 seconds usually. The problem is, everyone BELIEVES this crap about warlocks being overpowered, so I get targeted and focus fired to death immediately. I mean, they go after me before the priest! Do you REALLY think if you leave me alive I'm going to be able to take down the WHOLE alliance AV team by myself?

I can remember the days when I would top the KB, HK, Damage and all that in BGs, but it hasn't been that way in a LONG time.

Can't speak to 2.1 because I haven't played either.

I disagree that PVP is (or should be) balanced around battlegrounds though and I don't think 1v1 world pvp is "crap". Blizzard attempts to balance many different versions of many different classes across many different levels in many different situations, there are bound to be unique situations where one skill is overpowered compared to another. Fear that doesn't break on damage is one of those... People would stop QQ'ing if locks would stop deny'ing it.

[Tanitha]

If Locks were so overpowered, why do I die so often?

[fzyx]

If Locks were so overpowered, why do I die so often?

Maybe you've grown over-confident in your lock and tend to attack people that you shouldn't be able to beat?

[Tanitha]

Maybe you've grown over-confident in your lock and tend to attack people that you shouldn't be able to beat?

No, not really. I won't attack anyone 5 or more levels above me (Resistance bites) and I'll stay away from Druids. Sometimes Hunters, but if I can get the drop on them I might win the fight. Those two classes seem to be my bane. But then, I've been annihilated by a Fury warrior who simply kept delaying my casting so much and was hitting so hard that my little Lock died.

So for me - it depends on the player, how they use their abilities and if they know the right ways to counter various situations. Of course, I could come here and cry that Druids are overpowered or that Hunters are ridiculously overpowered.

But that would simply not be true. Across the spectrum of the game the classes are reasonably balanced. Some are stronger in certain areas. You wouldn't come here when a Rogue has managed to catch you in a stunlock from stealth and cry that Rogues are overpowered, would you?

[fzyx]

I won't attack anyone 5 or more levels above me (Resistance bites)

How often do you lose to people your own level or below you that are not locks?

[Tanitha]

I usually have about a 60% win ratio with people within 2 levels. A lot depends on the circumstances though. People below that threshold? I don't usually consider those to be a fair fight.

[cyks]

The only issue I have with Warlocks is that even if I can kill them quickly, I'll still end up dying 15 seconds later regardless of what I do.

[Rex Normal]

Tanthia seems to be a very well informed and bright player, you can hardly use a single player as a benchmark to show how overpowered a class may be. Any class when played to perfection will prove to be successful against the other classes.

The only issue I have with Warlocks is that even if I can kill them quickly, I'll still end up dying 15 seconds later regardless of what I do.

eat food?

[zzzzzzz]

Can't speak to 2.1 because I haven't played either.

I disagree that PVP is (or should be) balanced around battlegrounds though and I don't think 1v1 world pvp is "crap". Blizzard attempts to balance many different versions of many different classes across many different levels in many different situations, there are bound to be unique situations where one skill is overpowered compared to another. Fear that doesn't break on damage is one of those... People would stop QQ'ing if locks would stop deny'ing it.


Fear was nerfed, it was the biggest complaint of all other classes about Locks. What else should be done? Take away DC? Remove the Instant Dots and maybe nerf the pets? I don't understand what is so OP about locks. Mages get many instant damaged spells, blink, Ice Block and sheep. All of these are devastating in PvP but they are not OP?

Locks get fear 1 instant dot unless affliction specced then up to 3 instant dots 2 instant DD in which one has to be specced for and cost a soul shard to use and the other is on a cooldown and used for a defensive ability. Rogues rip us apart fiery warriors rip us apart hunters rip us apart. Do we need all classes to rip us apart so that we can get people to stop QQ'ing about locks being OP'ed?

I disagree with your statement, I think that even if we were to go ahead and admit that we are OP'ed you would NOT stop QQ'ing.

[fzyx]

I usually have about a 60% win ratio with people within 2 levels. A lot depends on the circumstances though. People below that threshold? I don't usually consider those to be a fair fight.

Well, fwiw, I've been 2-shotted by stealthed rogues/druids and while its annoying I don't call them or any of their skills overpowered. Mainly because I know from playing my alts that it takes some skill to avoid detection and position yourself well. Rogues/druids are at least in there, close quarters, and there is equally as much chance that I will detect their stealth, frost nova, get some crits in, and win.

If a fear/dot goes well, I might as well just walk away from the computer and grab a beer for the corpse-run that is coming up. As far as I know, no other classes have that kind of ability to control a fight with two button presses. Granted I'm sure it doesn't happen that way all the time, and it probably doesn't work well at all against people 5 levels higher than you, but just the fact that it is a possibility seems overpowered to me.

You could say the same about a 3-minute mage one-shotting people, but at least the mage has to spec a certain way and gimps themselves in all other ways for that one ability.

EDIT : Now that fear has been "nerfed" people may very well stop QQ'ing. We have yet to see.

[shifttusk]

<<Oh go back under your bridge. I defy you to provide me with 10 consecutive screenies of BG scoreboards where warlocks are regularly dominating the battle. I consider myself to be fairly adept at my class and have yet to be #1 on the scoreboard. I usually see hunters and warriors at the top.>>

I'll try my best to get these but i can't make any promises. Its not soo much from a skilled vs skilled perspective. As a hunter I can beat warlocks pleanty but I know what I'm doing. An unskilled warlock will generaly rock an unskilled player of any other class. Its just what I see 95% of the time. Because of the not immediatly breaking on dmg nature of fear it allows unskilled warlocks to stand in one spot. Deathcoil fear dot dot shadowbolt fear shadowbolt HK another player. Another good player will find an answer to the problem.

<<Are you honestly saying that Rogues, Hunters, and Warriors are complaining about warlocks being OP? They are our counter classes. If any of them are regularly defeated by warlocks they aren't worth the pixels they are made of.>>

Eh as a hunter I would say I'm only your counterclass if I were to spec lolmastery. Other than that its a 50/50 fight generaly if I see the lock first I win if he sees me first he wins. Rogues I'll agree are your counterclass if you don't have a sucy out.

<<And people, please don't cry about Warlocks being able to beat you because of your spec. If your class has a spec option to outclass another, but you don't choose to use it, that does not make the other class overpowered to yours, you just choose to use an underpowered spec.>>
My spec is just fine I'll post ya pleanty of BG charts showing that :). I will agree that its the worst spec to have for fighting locks, but you give and you take some.

<<Finally, why are warlocks being singled out for fear? we aren't the only class that uses it. I get feared by priests more often than I get feared by warlocks. Heck, I don't even use fear anymore because there are so many ways for my opponent to inturrupt/break out of it and that means I just wasted a global cooldown on something that didn't do any damage giving my opponent an advantage. Sure I'll use it if the target doesn't see me coming or is occupied with something else, but what rogue wouldn't open with a kidneyshot when given the chance, or warrior charge, or druid pounce, etc.>>

I don't single warlocks out, shadow priests i guess fall into this as well, however I see less shadow priests, and their dmg to me seems to be a bit less. The reson I think fear is a bit OP is the fact that it doesnt break on dmg. Nearly ever. The only thing close to it is a stunlock rogue which requires alot more finesse.

<<If a fear/dot goes well, I might as well just walk away from the computer and grab a beer for the corpse-run that is coming up. As far as I know, no other classes have that kind of ability to control a fight with two button presses. Granted I'm sure it doesn't happen that way all the time, and it probably doesn't work well at all against people 5 levels higher than you, but just the fact that it is a possibility seems overpowered to me.>>

My point exactly. The same could be said about surv hunters with wyvern and readiness but they need to spec a certain way and can do it once every 5 minutes if NOTHING goes wrong. Oh wait, hides :)

Its the same thing with Sweeping/Execute some things are a bit overpowered and need to be adjusted. I think fear is one, I wanna see how the change is. For those who don't know about Sweep/execute I've seen a warrior with a warrior and 2 rogues on him get one rogue down and then kill all 3 via the execute with sweeping strikes up. About 20k dmg in a button... thats a bit OP.

[zzzzzzz]

Well, fwiw, I've been 2-shotted by stealthed rogues/druids and while its annoying I don't call them or any of their skills overpowered. Mainly because I know from playing my alts that it takes some skill to avoid detection and position yourself well. Rogues/druids are at least in there, close quarters, and there is equally as much chance that I will detect their stealth, frost nova, get some crits in, and win.

If a fear/dot goes well, I might as well just walk away from the computer and grab a beer for the corpse-run that is coming up. As far as I know, no other classes have that kind of ability to control a fight with two button presses. Granted I'm sure it doesn't happen that way all the time, and it probably doesn't work well at all against people 5 levels higher than you, but just the fact that it is a possibility seems overpowered to me.

You could say the same about a 3-minute mage one-shotting people, but at least the mage has to spec a certain way and gimps themselves in all other ways for that one ability.


Hmm... fear nerf.... think this has been explained already. Move on away from fear plz.

[Astross]

I don't know about you guys but I am exicted about the buffs the mage's frost tree:

- Added a new rank of Ice Barrier to mage trainers.
-Arctic Winds (Frost Talent) now also increases all Frost damage caused by 1-5%.
- Frostbolt: Damage on rank 12 has been increased slightly to ensure it did more damage than rank 11 at all levels.
- Water Elemental: This pet will now come into the game with full health and mana, including that gained from a percentage of its master's stamina and intellect.



The cookie-cutter PVE/raid mage build has been 10/48/3 lately...but with these changes I can see many more mages returning to frost. I myself can't wait to test it out.

[fzyx]

Hmm... fear nerf.... think this has been explained already. Move on away from fear plz.

Like I said in my edit, we don't really know how the fear "nerf" will affect things yet. We have yet to see. From what I've heard there isn't a dramatic difference since there was technically always a chance for fear to break on damage.

[shifttusk]

I don't know about you guys but I am exicted about the buffs the mage's frost tree:

- Added a new rank of Ice Barrier to mage trainers.
-Arctic Winds (Frost Talent) now also increases all Frost damage caused by 1-5%.
- Frostbolt: Damage on rank 12 has been increased slightly to ensure it did more damage than rank 11 at all levels.
- Water Elemental: This pet will now come into the game with full health and mana, including that gained from a percentage of its master's stamina and intellect.



The cookie-cutter PVE/raid mage build has been 10/48/3 lately...but with these changes I can see many more mages returning to frost. I myself can't wait to test it out.

I still think fire will out DPS frost. But frost will still be the utility spec. They're just tightening the gap. They are doing the same for marksman vs survival hunters. Upping survivals dps a bit higher than before but lower than marks. But surv has cool stuff :)

[Tanitha]

Now that fear has been "nerfed" people may very well stop QQ'ing. We have yet to see.

Perhaps. As a lock I've tried to stay away from Fear. Sometimes it is a life saver, but generally a reliance on it in PvP will result in your death. The two seconds spent trying to cast it while somebody is either rapidly blasting you with fire / frost / whatever OR poking holes in you with very sharp objects seem wasteful. That time could be much better spent actually doing damage to them. (Dotting, Drain Life, etc.)

As an example, have a look at this PvP encounter (http://forums.worldofwar.net/blogs/viewblog.php?userid=266690&entry=119). (Taken directly from a CombatLog) Two locks - Ammeris at level 38 and Tasharin (me) at level 31. He opened with a Fear and did me 962 points of unanswered damage. Which, considering I had only 1180 hitpoints at that time was a considerable amount. But look at how the fight turned out. And no Fear from me, at all.

So I guess I'm saying - if you are relying on a nerf to Fear to kill Warlocks you might want to reconsider your strategy. A Warlock does not need Fear. Silencing us and having a high shadow resistance (Helps against Fear too) hurt us a lot more.

Edit:
It seems to me as if you would profit from having a CombatLog too. I use ChatLog from WowAce. It's invaluable for getting better in PvP situations, because you can always review a fight and see what is going on. It's great for identifying WHY you lost a fight and working out what you need to change in either your build, your gear or the useage of your skills to fight against that particular scenario.

Overall though, I'm mightily impressed by this patch. They've made some big changes, some small ones but it looks to be a net positive at the end of the day.

@Rex, thanks!

[fzyx]

I don't know about you guys but I am exicted about the buffs the mage's frost tree:

- Added a new rank of Ice Barrier to mage trainers.
-Arctic Winds (Frost Talent) now also increases all Frost damage caused by 1-5%.
- Frostbolt: Damage on rank 12 has been increased slightly to ensure it did more damage than rank 11 at all levels.
- Water Elemental: This pet will now come into the game with full health and mana, including that gained from a percentage of its master's stamina and intellect.



The cookie-cutter PVE/raid mage build has been 10/48/3 lately...but with these changes I can see many more mages returning to frost. I myself can't wait to test it out.

I already re-specced frost for arctic winds and the bug fixed water elemental :) I'll also be trolling for some locks to test out my new ice-block and the fear nerf...

[Tanitha]

I'll also be trolling for some locks to test out my new ice-block and the fear nerf...

If you're around level 42 - 53 and an Alliance player on Lightninghoof, I'd be more than happy to oblige. We could use it as an opportunity to practice skills outside of a dueling environment but in a slightly friendlier setting than world PvP. (More balanced without mobs and other annoyances)

[fzyx]

Perhaps. As a lock I've tried to stay away from Fear. Sometimes it is a life saver, but generally a reliance on it in PvP will result in your death. The two seconds spent trying to cast it while somebody is either rapidly blasting you with fire / frost / whatever OR poking holes in you with very sharp objects seem wasteful. That time could be much better spent actually doing damage to them. (Dotting, Drain Life, etc.)

As an example, have a look at this PvP encounter (http://forums.worldofwar.net/blogs/viewblog.php?userid=266690&entry=119). (Taken directly from a CombatLog) Two locks - Ammeris at level 38 and Tasharin (me) at level 31. He opened with a Fear and did me 962 points of unanswered damage. Which, considering I had only 1180 hitpoints at that time was a considerable amount. But look at how the fight turned out. And no Fear from me, at all.

So I guess I'm saying - if you are relying on a nerf to Fear to kill Warlocks you might want to reconsider your strategy. A Warlock does not need Fear. Silencing us and having a high shadow resistance (Helps against Fear too) hurt us a lot more.

@Rex, thanks!

I've always looked forward to the good battles with warlocks, its the one-sided battles where I run around like a chicken with its head cut-off until I'm dead that I don't look forward to...

I'm relying on the fear nerf to reduce the number of 12-year olds running around using fear/dot because they know there is a good chance they will win the fight without doing anything else.

[zzzzzzz]

Like I said in my edit, we don't really know how the fear "nerf" will affect things yet. We have yet to see. From what I've heard there isn't a dramatic difference since there was technically always a chance for fear to break on damage.

Believe you are incorrect here. Fear was only broken from DD and to that extent (I may be wrong) but I think crits. As far as I know fear was never affected by dots. But think about it. An affliction lock can put up to 5 dots (usually only 4) when the mob is feared. If each tick of each dot has a chance to break the fear then the small chance that it will break fear gets multiplied by 5 making it a good chance that it will get broken.

Now 5 dots is alot I agree but most classes have the ability to wipe 1,2 or all of these dots as soon as fear drops.

On a side note I was incorrect when I stated earlier that DC was on the same line as fear for diminishing returns. Took me awhile to look up the patch notes. Thanks guys for pointing that out for me.

[fzyx]

If you're around level 42 - 53 and an Alliance player on Lightninghoof, I'd be more than happy to oblige. We could use it as an opportunity to practice skills outside of a dueling environment but in a slightly friendlier setting than world PvP. (More balanced without mobs and other annoyances)

I'd take you up on that, but I'm on the forgotten coast (otherwise known as the forgotten realm). I've always thought there should be a 1v1 practice mode against the opposite faction. Why isn't there arena 1v1?

[Tanitha]

I've always looked forward to the good battles with warlocks, its the one-sided battles where I run around like a chicken with its head cut-off until I'm dead that I don't look forward to...

Yeah, I dislike those too. I've worked myself into a superstitious frenzy with Druids because of one, Aesop, who roams in Stranglethorn Vale. In the space of a week it seemed I couldn't peek out from underneath a leaf without staring at that kitty. And no matter what I did he killed me. Time and time again with only a two or three level difference between us. So now I avoid Druids religiously - and guess what? I haven't died to a Druid since :laugh:

I don't know why there isn't a 1v1 Arena. It could be fabulous for sorting out all the forum flexing that happens. In my minds eye I see a gladiator's circle, with crowds (other players) around us who can bet on who will win and so on. It could be fun!

[fzyx]

Believe you are incorrect here. Fear was only broken from DD and to that extent (I may be wrong) but I think crits. As far as I know fear was never affected by dots.

Very possible that I was wrong. I think I got the idea that there was a small chance of breaking on damage by possibly mis-reading this part of the linked analysis of fear vs. other methods of crowd control :

"Although warlocks will argue that it has the chance for a heart-beat resist, they have since patched fear so that it is LESS likely to break on periodic damage; & still, even polymorph is restricted by heart-beat resists as well, but with far more limiting factors."

from

http://forums.subcreation.net/viewtopic.php?id=3275

[Rex Normal]

Believe you are incorrect here. Fear was only broken from DD and to that extent (I may be wrong) but I think crits. As far as I know fear was never affected by dots. But think about it. An affliction lock can put up to 5 dots (usually only 4) when the mob is feared. If each tick of each dot has a chance to break the fear then the small chance that it will break fear gets multiplied by 5 making it a good chance that it will get broken.

Now 5 dots is alot I agree but most classes have the ability to wipe 1,2 or all of these dots as soon as fear drops.

On a side note I was incorrect when I stated earlier that DC was on the same line as fear for diminishing returns. Took me awhile to look up the patch notes. Thanks guys for pointing that out for me.



Before patch: Fear had a chance to break on heartbeat, meaning you could fear someone without damaging them at all and there would be a chance every 2 seconds of the complete 12 second fear for it to just break. It may have been a small chance, but it was there. I don't know about dots, but DD spells had a low chance of breaking fear, and crits had a very high chance of breaking it.

Very possible that I was wrong. I think I got the idea that there was a small chance of breaking on damage by possibly mis-reading this part of the linked analysis of fear vs. other methods of crowd control :

"Although warlocks will argue that it has the chance for a heart-beat resist, they have since patched fear so that it is LESS likely to break on periodic damage; & still, even polymorph is restricted by heart-beat resists as well, but with far more limiting factors."


Fear cannot be compared to polymorph, mages have Frost Nova to keep their opponents at a distance which affects multiple targets, as well as slowing effects making it possible for a Mage to kite their enemies effectively. Polymorph is meant as a means to remove a target from play. Warlocks get fear(horror) as their only means to keep the opponent at bay.

[fzyx]

Yeah, I dislike those too. I've worked myself into a superstitious frenzy with Druids because of one, Aesop, who roams in Stranglethorn Vale. In the space of a week it seemed I couldn't peek out from underneath a leaf without staring at that kitty. And no matter what I did he killed me. Time and time again with only a two or three level difference between us. So now I avoid Druids religiously - and guess what? I haven't died to a Druid since :laugh:

I don't know why there isn't a 1v1 Arena. It could be fabulous for sorting out all the forum flexing that happens. In my minds eye I see a gladiator's circle, with crowds (other players) around us who can bet on who will win and so on. It could be fun!

I've been staying out of STV entirely for the last couple weeks and I haven't died in PVP since :) I saw a good quote on here about stv the other week, I think it was something like "where no matter what level you are there's always a rogue 10 levels higher stealthed right behind you".

Betting on 1v1 arena would be great fun. It would also be a good place to improve your pvp chops on a level playing field.

[murderousmic]

Locks are OP because they can stack way too much stamina. I could care less about fear, bs dots killing me after they are already dead (and they can rez).

Warlocks should not be warriors. They wear cloth, they should not take an hour to kill. They do insane damage, why should they last twice as long as mages?

In the 40's, yes Warlocks were insanely OP. In the 60's on to 70 they've balanced out more except for the the insane high amount of stamina.

[djiss]

Grounding Totem? Nice if you immolate or shadow bolt us. Hasn't stopped fear.

Tremor Totem? You've...played a shaman right? You're damn lucky if you can get that thing to proc before you've fled in terror out of its area of effect.

it doe. Grounding will eat the fear if... yeah there's a IF...
IF it's not an AoE fear, since Grounding don't work on AoE spell.

Often I was running right to the lock, drop grounding, who eat fear, now im at his feet, drop grounding and proceed to whack him.
IF is Deathcoil isnt in cd, I can have a problem, but must of the time, they open with a "LoLDeathCoil" who is eaten by the grounding then they are "WTF??? he dont run" and proceed to try to fear you, getting interrupted with hit and WF proc and when he finally finish to cast his fear, he's either death or close to and HOPE his fear isnt broke by Tremor.

Timing the drop of the right totem at the right moment is needed here.

/hug Tanitha

[Tanitha]

/wave @ Djiss. Welcome back man! I've missed you. Now tell me about a Grounding Totem and Tremor. How would a Warlock work around that? I've just read the spell descriptions for those and they sound nasty. Not yet met a Shaman that dropped those, but I'm thinking I'll need a hotkey on Hellfire to counter that.

[Aerath]

/tab
/wand

/skillcoil

[Xmcdaniel]

Fear was nerfed with this patch. Fear now has a higher chance of breaking with ANY damage being done. So basically if you get feared then doted each time the dot ticks it has a chance of breaking the fear. This is a Huge nerf to PVP locks and somewhat PVE locks who like to use fear/kiting in heroic instances. After each fear it already is shorter until basically your immune (pvp). Also Death Coil is now part of the deminishing returns (or however its spelled) meaning if a rogue persay stun locks you and you need to DC him to gets some distance then fear the fear will break a hell of alot quicker.

I could care less as I don't PVP much but for all the people complaining about locks and their fear tactics looks like your QQ'ing has worked for you.

Congrats

Locks are topping the damage boards in high level PvP by a WIDE margin in a lot of cases... The only class that Locks have a problem with are BM hunters and rogues (cloak of skill).

Locks are topping the damage meters in raids. C'mon are you serious? Over mages? Mages are supposed to be the pure DPS glass cannon class, and they are getting smoked by a class that is supposed to heal (priests) and a class that has loads more survivability?

It must be because all locks are uber-skilled or something. Just like all the HUNTARS! Please give me a break.

[djiss]

Tanitha, First grounding totem is susposed to eat any spell aiming the party, that mean if someone in my party (5man not the whole raid) "receive" a spell, the totem eat it and disapear and put me defenseless.
Second, it (suppose) to eat any spell. Some lock are wanding them which, IMO, isnt the best way.

Wanding the totem require you to switch target, start/stop attack (can be done with a macro). If you have 2 shaman close, you have chance to no kill the right one too :)

I would rather keep an instant rank 1 spell, cast it on the shaman to make his totem eat it then proceed with more powerful spell, that way you keep the shaman targeted. Global CD isnt really an issue since almost anything you'll do will put you in anyway.

Tremor totem isnt really an issue since it "pulse" every 5 sec, which prolly give you enough time to cast sumthing. So both side rely on chance to win, chance to break fear close enough VS chance he run outside totem range before it pulse. Yeah, we also need to deal with totem range which work between 20-30yd, depending of the totem.

In all honnestly, PvP lock are'nt easy at all.

[djiss]

/tab
/wand

/skillcoil
in a perfect world, you're prolly right.

/tab (wrong target)
/tab (wrong totem)
/tab (wrong target)
/tab (wrong totem)
/tab (woot grounding)
/wand
/stop attack
/find the shaman

is prolly closer to the reality, cuz you don'T always have time to see where totem are.

[Tanitha]

It must be because all locks are uber-skilled or something.Of course. We are the crem-dela-crem of players. But I don't know where you're getting Hunters from... they're just an OP class :wink:

Please give me a break.You'd need to talk to Aerath about that. And speaking of, I finally figured out what his Avatar is. I'd always glanced at it and thought: "Voidwalker". Heh.


(For reference, the first part of the response was in jest ... )

/tab (wrong target)
/tab (wrong totem)That was my concern. And not running with a wand as I keep a Spellstone for the improved crit chance and ability to purge harmful effects. I was half thinking Hellfire, but that's a serious mana investment to kill off a totem and I'll be taking damage. It's untargeted AoE though, so might be easier than Rain of Fire. Hmmm. I like the idea of having a lower level spell eaten though. Thanks for the tip!

[djiss]

And speaking of, I finally figured out what his Avatar is. I'd always glanced at it and thought: "Voidwalker". Heh.
a wolf

to fit sig.

[Xmcdaniel]

A Warlock does not need Fear.

This is an accurate statement. Warlocks are fueled by Mage tears...they do not need fear to win! LOL

[Xmcdaniel]

I already re-specced frost for arctic winds and the bug fixed water elemental :) I'll also be trolling for some locks to test out my new ice-block and the fear nerf...

Remember, you can't double iceblock because of the Hypothermia cooldown now. So...you clear the dots...all the lock has to do is refresh them. I'd make sure I had Imp. CS before iceblock if I were intent on beating locks.

[Tanitha]

This is an accurate statement. Warlocks are fueled by Mage tears...they do not need fear to win! LOL

:laugh: In a way, Warlocks are there to kill mages. The Felhunter just makes it much easier as it gives us the ability to eat debuffs off ourselves / buffs off the mage both of which heals the Felhunter. Spell Lock which silences that school of magic for a while (That's been changed slightly with this patch for PvP purposes). And Blood Elfs have their own 8 yard AoE silence.

The only thing I haven't worked out against Mages yet is how to weather the insane opening crits if they catch you unawares and how to catch them once they begin blinking!

[zzzzzzz]

Locks are topping the damage boards in high level PvP by a WIDE margin in a lot of cases... The only class that Locks have a problem with are BM hunters and rogues (cloak of skill).

Locks are topping the damage meters in raids. C'mon are you serious? Over mages? Mages are supposed to be the pure DPS glass cannon class, and they are getting smoked by a class that is supposed to heal (priests) and a class that has loads more survivability?

It must be because all locks are uber-skilled or something. Just like all the HUNTARS! Please give me a break.

Mages will out DPS locks any day of the week on BURST damage. It's not that locks and out DPS mages its that they can outlast them in long fights. On bosses we have an unlimited supply of mana so we end up coming up near the top of the meters because we have NO down time. It's how they were intended. On quick fights a fire mage will blow us out of the water its the long fights that we shine.

PVP yeah they can use SoC now to to alot of AoE damage. Its misleading just like mages AoE. We can DoT alot of targets with instants but it's a slow death. Mage are suppose to deal instant damage which is instant death.

If your getting out DPS'ed by any kind of priest then IMO L2P your class. There is no excuse for a mage to be out DPSed by a priest.

[icutyoubad]

Locks are OP because they can stack way too much stamina. I could care less about fear, bs dots killing me after they are already dead (and they can rez).

Warlocks should not be warriors. They wear cloth, they should not take an hour to kill. They do insane damage, why should they last twice as long as mages?

In the 40's, yes Warlocks were insanely OP. In the 60's on to 70 they've balanced out more except for the the insane high amount of stamina.

This is hardly being OP. Anyone can stack stamina, just get the gear for it. Warlocks choose stamina gear over other stats because of life tap, that's all. Of course it helps with survivability, but any caster can stack up on the stamina gear. It has nothing to do with being OP at all.

[Stigg]

haha i am back!

Well what i love tht its the end of those filthy old twinks who keep on ruining my WSG game xD

Well all i wanted to say

(yey twinks are dead)

Not at all. We are exactly where we wanted to be. Away from non-twinks.

[Xmcdaniel]

Mages will out DPS locks any day of the week on BURST damage. It's not that locks and out DPS mages its that they can outlast them in long fights. On bosses we have an unlimited supply of mana so we end up coming up near the top of the meters because we have NO down time. It's how they were intended. On quick fights a fire mage will blow us out of the water its the long fights that we shine.

PVP yeah they can use SoC now to to alot of AoE damage. Its misleading just like mages AoE. We can DoT alot of targets with instants but it's a slow death. Mage are suppose to deal instant damage which is instant death.

If your getting out DPS'ed by any kind of priest then IMO L2P your class. There is no excuse for a mage to be out DPSed by a priest.

L2P my class? Nihilum is the top raiding guild in the world, correct? They all know how to play their class, correct? Have you seen the damage meters from their PTR raid boss kills recently? Maybe that will answer your question.

Mages are supposed to be the kings of DPS with low survivability. But at the moment there are classes that are out-DPSing mages that have higher survivability. Thems the facts.

I love my playing my mage and I'd continue to play him even if the mage class suffered from additional nerfs. But I just find it comical that Warlocks have the cajones to come around and complain about people calling them overpowered because that's EXACTLY what they are at the moment...in every facet of the game.

[Jojin]

I think that even if we were to go ahead and admit that we are OP'ed you would NOT stop QQ'ing.

True. You only have to look at the shaman class to see what QQ can do.

[swaldman]

I was half thinking Hellfire, but that's a serious mana investment to kill off a totem and I'll be taking damage. It's untargeted AoE though, so might be easier than Rain of Fire. Hmmm. I like the idea of having a lower level spell eaten though. Thanks for the tip!

AIUI, totems are immune to AoE.

[Gorechylde]

My only problem with Locks pre-patch was fear. Locks have the only non-damage ended CC. Chain-fearing the healer around the arena with 4 dots on him, each ticking for 500+, for a full 8 secs while shadow bolting for 2k non-crit is overpowered(And ANY lock can do this regardless of spec). I only wish Intimidating Shout worked the same way.

[NOYB]

Off-track a little bit, but deathcoil shouldn't be a ranged attack. It really is O/P having an instant ranged attack that heals the warlock and sends an enemy running in terror (it's not fear.) Who wouldn't want such an ability?

[fzyx]

Remember, you can't double iceblock because of the Hypothermia cooldown now. So...you clear the dots...all the lock has to do is refresh them. I'd make sure I had Imp. CS before iceblock if I were intent on beating locks.


Yeah, I don't expect it to be a cure-all and I know that locks will still be horribly overpowered, but every little bit helps :) I'm going for water elemental first, then imp. cs, since in reality I only run into locks once in a blue moon but I'm constantly grinding through murlocs.

[fzyx]

This is hardly being OP. Anyone can stack stamina, just get the gear for it. Warlocks choose stamina gear over other stats because of life tap, that's all. Of course it helps with survivability, but any caster can stack up on the stamina gear. It has nothing to do with being OP at all.

And their virtually unlimited supply of mana in long fights? You make a valid point, any class that had virtually unlimited supplies of things they need could go ahead and stack stamina. It has nothing to do with being OP at all...

[owlx]

haha i am back!

Well what i love tht its the end of those filthy old twinks who keep on ruining my WSG game xD

Well all i wanted to say

(yey twinks are dead)


um, no, not really. Far from it in fact. so far the matching system seems to be pretty good. I'm all for it if the que times stay at 1 min like there were all of yesterday. Evenly matched bg's with mostly all twinks on each side. Games that forced people to use a strategy other than "zerg" or "farm hk's"

lots of fun, got enought token for me necklace..........now time to farm my AGM's and finish my enchants

[Qwertius]

If Locks were so overpowered, why do I die so often?



all these discussions about who is beating who concentrate for 99% at LVL max characters, being lvl 60, or nowadays lvl 70 .

different classes scale different at different lvls

for example shamans can be all ruling at lvl 26 and be less powerfull at lvl 36 because the talents and skills they get at a certain lvl compared to other classes. (this is just a random example I know very little about shamans)


But I know that theorizing about low lvl (and even your nicelvl 46 lock falls in that category :) ) power levels has little meaning

[Ryste]

My only problem with Locks pre-patch was fear. Locks have the only non-damage ended CC. Chain-fearing the healer around the arena with 4 dots on him, each ticking for 500+, for a full 8 secs while shadow bolting for 2k non-crit is overpowered(And ANY lock can do this regardless of spec). I only wish Intimidating Shout worked the same way.

hahaha, 500 ticks on dots and 2k non-crit shadowbolt. Please post screenshots.

[Qwertius]

My only problem with Locks pre-patch was fear. Locks have the only non-damage ended CC. Chain-fearing the healer around the arena with 4 dots on him, each ticking for 500+, for a full 8 secs while shadow bolting for 2k non-crit is overpowered(And ANY lock can do this regardless of spec). I only wish Intimidating Shout worked the same way.

That would work about 1% of the time (4 dots + shadowbolt + full duration)

I would say I haven't seen that happen in my 2 years of warlock playing

[shifttusk]

hahaha, 500 ticks on dots and 2k non-crit shadowbolt. Please post screenshots.

2k noncrit shadowbolts is not that uncomon i've seen it before... 500 ticks on all dots usualy requires afliction speccing though

[Ryste]

2k noncrit shadowbolts is not that uncomon i've seen it before... 500 ticks on all dots usualy requires afliction speccing though

Post screenshots.

I am running 900 shadow damage, and my bolts are hitting for 1400-1600 non-crit, non debuff.

My corruption is ticking for 300's, and agony starting off at high 100's.

You are right, warlocks running around with 1300 shadow damage is common. Also, any real pvp warlock would stack up resilience instead of +dmg for pvp.

[Janggala]

And their virtually unlimited supply of mana in long fights? You make a valid point, any class that had virtually unlimited supplies of things they need could go ahead and stack stamina. It has nothing to do with being OP at all...

The "unlimited" supply of mana is due to the stamina stacking. In order for a lock to have "unlimited" mana, they have to drain their own health, hence the stamina stacking.

You can't have it both ways...we either have insane stamina or "unlimited" mana, but not both.

Besides, who says we're not supposed to be the dominating class? :wink:

[fzyx]

The "unlimited" supply of mana is due to the stamina stacking. In order for a lock to have "unlimited" mana, they have to drain their own health, hence the stamina stacking.

You can't have it both ways...we either have insane stamina or "unlimited" mana, but not both.

Besides, who says we're not supposed to be the dominating class? :wink:

I agree completely :) I do think warlocks are supposed to be the dominating class. For now. How else can Blizzard guarantee an even distribution of players and classes if they don't rotate an OP class around? I actually think warlocks are currently on the way down, but still feel they have some unfair advantages.

But we can go on like that forever, so to satisfy my curiousity about whether the grass is really greener on the other side, I'm creating a horde warlock (and mage while I'm at it). Anybody have suggestions for a good server? My other toons are all alliance so this will be my first horde.

[Tanitha]

You're not a big fan of RP/PvP are you? I've played on two servers like that - The Venture Co (Alliance) and Lightninghoof (Horde). Both of those were fabulous servers, although LH seem to have a more active AH.

Otherwise, why not try rolling on Kalecgos? Stigg, Kollegegurl and a few other forum members are there and it sounds like great fun.

[fzyx]

You're not a big fan of RP/PvP are you? I've played on two servers like that - The Venture Co (Alliance) and Lightninghoof (Horde). Both of those were fabulous servers, although LH seem to have a more active AH.

Otherwise, why not try rolling on Kalecgos? Stigg, Kollegegurl and a few other forum members are there and it sounds like great fun.

Not big on the role-play part, but I have been curious as to whether there is a difference in attitudes vs. a regular PVP server. Definetly not rolling on a PVE server though... No matter what kcma thinks :)

[shifttusk]

Post screenshots.

I am running 900 shadow damage, and my bolts are hitting for 1400-1600 non-crit, non debuff.

My corruption is ticking for 300's, and agony starting off at high 100's.

You are right, warlocks running around with 1300 shadow damage is common. Also, any real pvp warlock would stack up resilience instead of +dmg for pvp.

Haha next time I'm with my buddy i will. I think he was potted up and was at around 1200+shadow. There may have been misery or shadow vuln up though.

[kodeeak]

But we can go on like that forever, so to satisfy my curiousity about whether the grass is really greener on the other side, I'm creating a horde warlock (and mage while I'm at it). Anybody have suggestions for a good server? My other toons are all alliance so this will be my first horde.
emerald dream is fun for horde, lotsa alliance to kill.

[djiss]

You're not a big fan of RP/PvP are you? I've played on two servers like that - The Venture Co (Alliance) and Lightninghoof (Horde). Both of those were fabulous servers, although LH seem to have a more active AH.

Otherwise, why not try rolling on Kalecgos? Stigg, Kollegegurl and a few other forum members are there and it sounds like great fun.

Oh you moved server?

[Schift]

I started a new warlock as well so that I wouldn't have to QQ on this thread :wink:

I'm at lvl 16 and I must say Warlocks are a very easy class to level. It'll be nice when I get a little higher level and can get a little bit better perspective of how powerful I really am against different classes.

My main is a feral druid (70) and I have extensive PvP experience. Warlocks (good ones with near equal gear to mine or better) give me a lot of trouble 1v1. Most classes if I can get the jump on them, it's not even that much of a challenge. Good Warlocks with 10k+ life and a decent amount of resilience can often reverse the battle and I see and hear about them owning many other classes on a consistent basis.

I wouldn't call them severly overpowered, but there is an undeniable fact that if most classes have a problem with one class something is out of balance. Claims that it's all about the player and gear are inaccurate because even Blizzard wouldn't claim that they've been able to balance the game evenly quite yet. Many imbalances can be overcome, but too many disadvantages make even the best player merely a moderate threat.

One thing that has me concerned in high end PvP with Warlocks is that as everyone continues to stack stamina and resilience with the arena gear and such, Warlocks will become even more powerful. Other classes will remain balanced, but Dot heavy classes will have a great advantage. Maybe they will add a buff to resilience to have it mitigate damage over time spells, but I highly doubt it. Most really well geared warlocks are just able to outlast just about any other class (including rogues). The higher you go gearwise, the weaker and weaker rogues especially become against Warlocks. I can't complain though, Blizzard is constantly trying to balance something like pvp between 9 classes... quite a hard thing to do.

[swaldman]

I can't complain though, Blizzard is constantly trying to balance something like pvp between 9 classes... quite a hard thing to do.

And, the tricky bit, trying to do it without breaking the classes for PvE.

[Schift]

And, the tricky bit, trying to do it without breaking the classes for PvE.

Exactly. Not only do they have to try and balance them in PvP (and that means, 1v1 world PvP, 10-40 man BG's, and 2v2-3v3-5v5 arenas) but they have to balance them in PvE grinding, questing, 5-mans, 10-40 man raids and other. They also have to balance all of this from 1-70 and with gear. Lets say they get all that balanced: now they have to multiply that by 3 specs for each of those 9 classes - now they have racial's - now professions - etc... It's pretty amazing how balanced it is right now to be honest.

For instance, if my sources are correct, Blizzard is currently looking at a way to "fix" the Paladin's Retribution talent tree to make it more viable for raiding. They want to increase their sustained DPS to allow them to be considered for a role in raids. If they just increase DPS the way it is now by a percentage that will make them viable DPSers in raids, the ret paladin will absolutely dominate many classes in PvP.

On a personal note, I can't imagine trying to hold aggro off of a Ret Pally with a 15% boost to dps or so...

[Telmar]

Post screenshots.

I am running 900 shadow damage, and my bolts are hitting for 1400-1600 non-crit, non debuff.

My corruption is ticking for 300's, and agony starting off at high 100's.

You are right, warlocks running around with 1300 shadow damage is common. Also, any real pvp warlock would stack up resilience instead of +dmg for pvp.

On a decent server (ie a PVP server, where there are serious PVE guilds) then yes, its VERY common. Theres at least 3 in my guild with that level of gear, and they dont bother putting on resiliance for PVP, they just nuke anything that moves.

Warlocks were OP. No doubt about it. Best arena burst, most utility, best CC, highest sustained damage, their gear is itemized for loads of dmg and hp.

[fzyx]

Yeah, I don't expect it to be a cure-all and I know that locks will still be horribly overpowered, but every little bit helps :) I'm going for water elemental first, then imp. cs, since in reality I only run into locks once in a blue moon but I'm constantly grinding through murlocs.

FWIW - I did 5 AB bg's and 5 WSG last night and if fear was nerfed, it was entirely unnoticeable.

[fzyx]

Exactly. Not only do they have to try and balance them in PvP (and that means, 1v1 world PvP, 10-40 man BG's, and 2v2-3v3-5v5 arenas) but they have to balance them in PvE grinding, questing, 5-mans, 10-40 man raids and other. They also have to balance all of this from 1-70 and with gear. Lets say they get all that balanced: now they have to multiply that by 3 specs for each of those 9 classes - now they have racial's - now professions - etc... It's pretty amazing how balanced it is right now to be honest.

For instance, if my sources are correct, Blizzard is currently looking at a way to "fix" the Paladin's Retribution talent tree to make it more viable for raiding. They want to increase their sustained DPS to allow them to be considered for a role in raids. If they just increase DPS the way it is now by a percentage that will make them viable DPSers in raids, the ret paladin will absolutely dominate many classes in PvP.

On a personal note, I can't imagine trying to hold aggro off of a Ret Pally with a 15% boost to dps or so...


I think they should just stop trying to balance all classes across all the different possibilities. If you want to be the most feared class in PVP? Play a warlock, but don't expect to kick-butt in a PVE raid. Want to have lots of cool fun "magic" to play with, play a mage, but don't expect to survive much in PVP. Want to stealth and sneak up on people in STV? Play a rogue, but don't expect to sneak up on the bosses. IMHO the unique qualities of the different classes are lost when they try to balance everything across the board.

[SwervinCL]

True. You only have to look at the shaman class to see what QQ can do.

Or the druid class to see what happens when warriors QQ....

So to you warlocks that say that locks don't need fear. What do you do against melee player? If you don't use fear, how do you deal with them?

[shifttusk]

Or the druid class to see what happens when warriors QQ....

So to you warlocks that say that locks don't need fear. What do you do against melee player? If you don't use fear, how do you deal with them?

Skillcoil, curse of exhation, kite

[Rex Normal]

Or the druid class to see what happens when warriors QQ....

So to you warlocks that say that locks don't need fear. What do you do against melee player? If you don't use fear, how do you deal with them?

I like it when melee beats on me, I get instant shadowbolts when they do. Seriously tho, I die quite often from warriors, rogues, feral druids, and good BM hunters. I don't use fear because even tho it's only a 1.5 second cast, with the pushback from all the hits I'm taking it ends up being a 3-4 second cast, a waste of my time and mana. DC comes in handy, so does seduce and shadowfury, but really all I can hope for is that my talent procs and I get enough instant casts to burn thru their armor before I die.

If I were an afflock tho it would be a different story, I'd probably just have to dot dot dot dot dot and run for my life hoping the dots will kill them before they get to me.

Skillcoil, curse of exhation, kite

Skillcoil? come on, are we still calling it that? Get over it. Its nothing more than a GTFOff me spell. the six to seven hundred health transfer will hardly turn any tables.

[shifttusk]

<<Skillcoil? come on, are we still calling it that? Get over it. Its nothing more than a GTFOff me spell. the six to seven hundred health transfer will hardly turn any tables.>>

By far the coolest pokefun name for a spell that I will still use. And hey I make fun of the hunter ones as well. The nub within etc. :)

[SwervinCL]

I like it when melee beats on me, I get instant shadowbolts when they do. Seriously tho, I die quite often from warriors, rogues, feral druids, and good BM hunters. I don't use fear because even tho it's only a 1.5 second cast, with the pushback from all the hits I'm taking it ends up being a 3-4 second cast, a waste of my time and mana. DC comes in handy, so does seduce and shadowfury, but really all I can hope for is that my talent procs and I get enough instant casts to burn thru their armor before I die.

If I were an afflock tho it would be a different story, I'd probably just have to dot dot dot dot dot and run for my life hoping the dots will kill them before they get to me.



Skillcoil? come on, are we still calling it that? Get over it. Its nothing more than a GTFOff me spell. the six to seven hundred health transfer will hardly turn any tables.

Im only a level 32 right now, so I do not have many spells asides from fear to keep melee classes away from me. Melee classes are the only ones I fear right now asides from a hunters pet.

Like the 36 warrior that me and my friend came across yesterday with his 32 mage friend. The mage was easy, but dealing with that warrior would have been damn near impossible to deal with, without fear.

BTW.. Im an affliction lock, so I dont have the glory of instant shadow bolts. See, you destruction locks rely on burst damage to kill things, me as an affliction lock, need time for the dots to work. That time is made up while the guy I am going against is running around like a chicken with his head cut off...

Sorry, thats all I got.

[Rex Normal]

It's hard to have this arguement without defining the levels you are speaking of. Being level 70 I will always argue warlocks relative power to all other lvl 70's. As far as I'm concerned the balance of power between any sub 70 levels is really irrelivant because levels change, gear gets swapped out, new spells are learned, new tactics are discovered it's far too volitle to consider a class's overall power before they are at least at max level.

[Magikhat]

Skillcoil? come on, are we still calling it that? Get over it. Its nothing more than a GTFOff me spell. the six to seven hundred health transfer will hardly turn any tables.


I thought we were calling it noobcoil still? :ponder:

its nothing more than a GTFO me spell? Its an instant GTFO off me spell, +heal, +fear coming your way.

[Tanitha]

BTW.. Im an affliction lock, so I dont have the glory of instant shadow bolts. See, you destruction locks rely on burst damage to kill things, me as an affliction lock, need time for the dots to work.

Wait until you get Nightfall. Instant Shadowbolts is the province of an Affliction Lock, as your Corruption / Drain Life will have a 2% / 4% chance of proccing an instant Shadowbolt.

From the sound of this though, a few of the main complainants against Warlocks seem to want us reduced to "Here, have a wand" class. Every single class out there has a series of signature spells. For a Warlock, Deathcoil, Fear and the Dots are our trademarks. Hunters have Feign Death, their traps and their awesome array of shots. Every class has it. It doesn't make the classes overpowered.

[fricfrac]

I thought we were calling it noobcoil still? :ponder:

its nothing more than a GTFO me spell? Its an instant GTFO off me spell, +heal, +fear coming your way.

Not to mention I love how it's called a "defensive" spell when it has a 30 yard range. That and it easily sets you up for the Fear/Seduce spam.

[Magikhat]

sorry I disagree. I have a 60 lock which i stopped playing because it was too easy to kill people. If I remember correctly, i told my guild that I wanted a challenge in pvp so im re-rolling. I also have a 70 hunter a 70 priest and a 60 rogue and a warrior as well. Locks are by far the easiest class to pvp with.

Yeah I told my guild I would play my lock when they made the class equal to the other classes and its not a coincidence he is still sitting on level 60 for the past almost 2 years.

It's easy to defend the lock class when your main is a lock. I use to do the same.

[fzyx]

Wait until you get Nightfall. Instant Shadowbolts is the province of an Affliction Lock, as your Corruption / Drain Life will have a 2% / 4% chance of proccing an instant Shadowbolt.

From the sound of this though, a few of the main complainants against Warlocks seem to want us reduced to "Here, have a wand" class. Every single class out there has a series of signature spells. For a Warlock, Deathcoil, Fear and the Dots are our trademarks. Hunters have Feign Death, their traps and their awesome array of shots. Every class has it. It doesn't make the classes overpowered.

Every class has signature moves, but its entirely possible that one set of signature moves is overpowered compared to those of the other classes.

I would call Hunters overpowered when it comes to single person PVE, I'm not sure my hunter has ever even died in PVE. Its an easy class to play. In my opinion, warlocks are meant to be tops when it comes to PVP. If you look at classic fantasy lore, or even at the name 'warlock', they are meant to be down and dirty fighters on the front lines. While something like a mage is meant to be hidden in a tower somewhere scrying on people and manipulating things behind the scenes.

The problem is that people playing WoW want to be able to do everything with every class, and some classes are more gimped in that respect than others. Some classes just don't have the tools to compete head-to-head while some classes do have those tools.

[Rex Normal]

sorry I disagree. I have a 60 lock which i stopped playing because it was too easy to kill people. If I remember correctly, i told my guild that I wanted a challenge in pvp so im re-rolling. I also have a 70 hunter a 70 priest and a 60 rogue and a warrior as well. Locks are by far the easiest class to pvp with.

Yeah I told my guild I would play my lock when they made the class equal to the other classes and its not a coincidence he is still sitting on level 60 for the past almost 2 years.

It's easy to defend the lock class when your main is a lock. I use to do the same.

It's just as easy to complain about the warlock class when you haven't played it. a lot has happened in 2 years and there's a big difference between 60 and 70 now. You do have a unique perspective as you have experience playing a warlock, but I wouldn't say your fundamental opinion of the class is up to date if you haven't played in 2 years. A lot of people never even stepped foot in a warlocks shoes yet they call it the easiest class to play. I don't know that may be true, I haven't played all the other classes yet so I can't honestly say, but I think very few people can. As a warlock the bane of my existence is the rogue, but rather than cry bloody murder on the rogue class, I am building a rogue and having a lot of fun with it.

[memetootoo]

For the last time, warlocks do not get a free epic mount -_-

When I bought my mats, all from the AH the gold cost was 800-900 total. Not to mention having to go through a variety of instances to get it.

And a lock at 60, is much diff than a lock at 70 in pvp

[Rex Normal]

FWIW - I did 5 AB bg's and 5 WSG last night and if fear was nerfed, it was entirely unnoticeable.


Curious, what bracket? the fear nerf only affects lvl 60+ targets.

[fzyx]

Curious, what bracket? the fear nerf only affects lvl 60+ targets.

Ahhhh... didn't know that. Which I suppose explains why it didn't affect anything in 40-49. So lower than level 60 there really wasn't a fear "nerf"?

[murderousmic]

Warlocks in this bracket are practically god-mode.

What I would advise, young hunter, level up into the 60's bracket and then take a crack at Warlocks. It is very easy for a hunter to take a lot of deep-down warlock aggression out. Honestly (if you're MM) and get silencing shot, you almost want to shoot at Locks and mages exclusively, because you can completely shut them down for 3 seconds which is a lot of time to tip the battle in your favor. 49 is pretty much the zenith of the pvp mountain for locks.

[fzyx]

Warlocks in this bracket are practically god-mode.

What I would advise, young hunter, level up into the 60's bracket and then take a crack at Warlocks. It is very easy for a hunter to take a lot of deep-down warlock aggression out. Honestly (if you're MM) and get silencing shot, you almost want to shoot at Locks and mages exclusively, because you can completely shut them down for 3 seconds which is a lot of time to tip the battle in your favor. 49 is pretty much the zenith of the pvp mountain for locks.

Good to know. My hunter is actually just lvl 21 right now, I was in 40-49 on my mage. And yes, i did notice hunters and locks both liked gunning for me, as well as shaman, and, well, everyone else :)

[Icefrost]

For the last time, warlocks do not get a free epic mount -_-


Wasn't the talk about the NORMAL lvl 40 mount anyways? And yeah, that ~90g isn't much if you have a high level char or two to farm it for ya, but if you play your first char, its a different story.

As for the balance discussion, I mostly agree with whoever said warlocks don't need fear. They sure wouldn't really need it for killing me, they are bad enough without it. So why all this fuss about getting it nerfed? Yeah, they did do something to it once before already, didn't they? These "its practically useless now" -comments were in the air that time too, and what change did I notice back then? Nothing.

[thmpr]

If there isn't a significant nerf to warlocks (and I don't think there is), then it's still warlocks that are the most overpowered:

Excellent raid utility, highest DPS, a variety of pets, free mounts, soulstones, unbreakable (for the most part) crowd control, DoT's that last even after the lock is dead, best survivability of any cloth wearer...need I go on?

At the moment, warlocks are the most dominant class in PvP AND PvE.

I beg to differ - of course it's just my personal opinion meaning zip - but,
in PVE: Hunters outclass warlocks all across the board
in PVP: A Shaman specced out can decimate warlocks too in pvp
Also:

[shifttusk]

<<in PVE: Hunters outclass warlocks all across the board>>

HAHAHAHA Hunter outclassing warlocks in PVE? Have you see the difference in DPS between an equally geared warlock and hunter? +stam for party? Healthstones?

<<in PVP: A Shaman specced out can decimate warlocks too in pvp >>
L2wand tremor totem skillcoil and win

[sohcan]

Just for clarity the warlock receives no free mounts. The epic one has materials required which cost gold and or farming, and the level 40 mount costs 90 silver. Now the cost of the level 40 mount might not be a lot, but unless there is some new fangled math I am not privy to it doesn't equal free. Plus a low cost mount doesn't equal overpowered, if anything you could refer to it as a perk or being spoiled, but the cost of a warlock mount affects pvp to the sum of zero. Paladins also get spoiled with a low cost mount at 40. Oh and other classes get low cost travel perks such as; aspect of the cheetah, ghost wolf, travel form, and mage teleports. Some of which do factor into pvp play. But I probably shouldn't mention those because no classes, except warlocks of course, get anything good in the game do they? :P

From the sound of this though, a few of the main complainants against Warlocks seem to want us reduced to "Here, have a wand" class. Every single class out there has a series of signature spells. For a Warlock, Deathcoil, Fear and the Dots are our trademarks. Hunters have Feign Death, their traps and their awesome array of shots. Every class has it. It doesn't make the classes overpowered.

I concur, it seems the most people want to gut the warlock.I am curious after all these complaints, and some insults, how our armchair developers would "balance" warlocks.

A lot of what I have seen in this thread is people throwing out tidbits and deeming them overpowered.

Fear is a good example. Why would the developers make a crowd control skill that allows damage? And why is this fair if most others don't have it? Easy, the way that the majority of the damage the warlock does warrants it. The majority of warlock damage is damage over time, it needs some time to work. Would I argue with them making it break easier, like they have? No, that is the developer's digression in my opinion, but having fear break on any damage would cripple warlocks, especially affliction locks. It differs from a mage, the majority of whose damage is direct. With a small portion being dots, ie ignite. Mages and warlocks may have some similarities, but they aren't the same class, so why should their crowd control function the same way? Warlocks don't get multiple snares, roots, or an escape spell like blink. We get a talented snare for 30%. We don't get a talented immunity like iceblock. Is that fair? Sure it is, we aren't Mages. And although fear might be a great pvp cc, sheep is much nicer for pve, it's fire and forget. If you want to cc with fear in pve you need to constantly monitor the mob and fear pong it with curse of recklessness. So maybe fear isn't superior in every aspect after all.

Another classic example would be, "ZOMG Warlocks have too much stamina! OP!!!111". Do you honestly believe that this wasn't intended? Any developer worth his salt can figure out that if you give a mana using class a way to convert life into mana they are going to stack life. It's not rocket science, and it wasn't an "oops we didn't think of that" mistake. The class was intended, designed, and balanced to have high stamina. Warlocks don't get as many escape tricks, or healing spells as other cloth wearers, nor do they get a high armor class, part of a warlock's defense is simply large amounts of life.

Pretty much all I have seen in this thread is just class hate and spurious reasoning. "Class A has this? Class B doesn't! ZOMG that is overpowered! It's a slap in the face!". Which doesn't prove a darn thing. Also people seem to constantly overlook how the game was balanced. It was balanced for group pvp and balanced with a rock/paper/scissors concept, as has been stated by Blizzard. You can ignore those facts all you like, but that doesn't make your case any stronger, quite the opposite. And Blizzard decides how to balance its games, not you.

What would you the player who believes the warlock to be horribly overpowered do if you were a developer? Could you, would you keep in mind Blizzard's intentions in doing so?

I am curious how many could/would do it without gutting the class and leaving it defenseless,and balancing it in the manner Blizzard deemed feasible. Or would you gut the whole game and go for 1 vs 1 balance? Feel free to enlighten us.

As a general rule I trust game developers more than players when it comes to issues of "balance". Although you do find the odd player who truly gets game mechanics, has a sense of fairplay, and can remove themselves from class bias. Someone like faxmonkey the mage springs to mind as a player who actually would make a decent developer. His posts are always worth a read.

So have it, balance the warlock for us with specifics and show us the error of our overpowered ways. :P


Don't get me wrong, whether I agree with you or not I appreciate armchair dev'ing as much as the next guy, that is what game forums are about.Solid reasoning behind your assertions is also enjoyed. :P

[fzyx]

Fear is a good example. Why would the developers make a crowd control skill that allows damage? And why is this fair if most others don't have it? Easy, the way that the majority of the damage the warlock does warrants it.

... stuff snipped ...

Pretty much all I have seen in this thread is just class hate and spurious reasoning. "Class A has this? Class B doesn't! ZOMG that is overpowered! It's a slap in the face!". Which doesn't prove a darn thing. Also people seem to constantly overlook how the game was balanced. It was balanced for group pvp and balanced with a rock/paper/scissors concept, as has been stated by Blizzard. You can ignore those facts all you like, but that doesn't make your case any stronger, quite the opposite. And Blizzard decides how to balance its games, not you.

... more stuff snipped ...


I don't know why developers would make crowd control for one class that allows damage... I can't answer that. The only valid thing to say here is, yes, the game is balanced as the developers intended it to be balanced. The other night in 40-49 bg a warlock did 44k damage, the second in damage (same level, same team) was 20k. Somebody pointed out that our entire team did less damage than that one warlock.

I don't know why blizzard decided to balance the game this way, but they did. I also don't know why warlock's needed pets, healthstones, and a way to convert health into mana. Why do they get shadow bolts (or whatever) when they so desparately need unbreakable fear to get their dots out? I don't know. Why do they get an essentially free (you are questing and farming anyway) lvl 40 mount that looks cooler than normal mounts? I don't know. Breathe under water? Ummm... I don't know. EDIT : My best guess is that blizzard wanted to create incentive for new players to choose the warlock class because at some point nobody was playing warlocks. Probably because they were underpowered.

Nobody is ignoring the fact that Blizzard balanced things the way they wanted them balanced. If you could wade through the first 12 pages of this thread you'll read that multiple people have tried to compromise that yes, warlocks at certain level ranges are god-like in pvp. They are the scissor to the mages paper. It was intended that way. Its a strong class that excels in everything in the game. Why do warlock's keep arguing?

[zzzzzzz]

I don't know why developers would make crowd control for one class that allows damage... I can't answer that. The only valid thing to say here is, yes, the game is balanced as the developers intended it to be balanced. The other night in 40-49 bg a warlock did 44k damage, the second in damage (same level, same team) was 20k. Somebody pointed out that our entire team did less damage than that one warlock.

I don't know why blizzard decided to balance the game this way, but they did. I also don't know why warlock's needed pets, healthstones, and a way to convert health into mana. Why do they get shadow bolts (or whatever) when they so desparately need unbreakable fear to get their dots out? I don't know. Why do they get an essentially free (you are questing and farming anyway) lvl 40 mount that looks cooler than normal mounts? I don't know. Breathe under water? Ummm... I don't know. EDIT : My best guess is that blizzard wanted to create incentive for new players to choose the warlock class because at some point nobody was playing warlocks. Probably because they were underpowered.

Nobody is ignoring the fact that Blizzard balanced things the way they wanted them balanced. If you could wade through the first 12 pages of this thread you'll read that multiple people have tried to compromise that yes, warlocks at certain level ranges are god-like in pvp. They are the scissor to the mages paper. It was intended that way. Its a strong class that excels in everything in the game. Why do warlock's keep arguing?

OK you win Locks are OP'ed now can you give it a rest? Each class has it own "I don't know why they can do this" abilities. Mages can sheep and cast a spell that takes half your health in one shot the re-sheep and do again. When sheeped the guy on the other end sits there knowing that he is going to get nuked with nothing to do about it. Man I am tired of listening to you complain about locks every ability. Earlier you stated if someone would just admit to them being OP'ed then you wouldn't address it anymore so here you go locks are OP'ed I agree.... now let it go.

[fzyx]

OK you win Locks are OP'ed now can you give it a rest? Each class has it own "I don't know why they can do this" abilities. Mages can sheep and cast a spell that takes half your health in one shot the re-sheep and do again. When sheeped the guy on the other end sits there knowing that he is going to get nuked with nothing to do about it. Man I am tired of listening to you complain about locks every ability. Earlier you stated if someone would just admit to them being OP'ed then you wouldn't address it anymore so here you go locks are OP'ed I agree.... now let it go.

No they can't, sheep is essentially an instant heal so it only works once. And you have to be spec'ed a certain way to take half of anybodies health in one shot.

But cool, I'll let it go since we've come to an agreement.

[murderousmic]

I don't know why developers would make crowd control for one class that allows damage... I can't answer that. The only valid thing to say here is, yes, the game is balanced as the developers intended it to be balanced. The other night in 40-49 bg a warlock did 44k damage, the second in damage (same level, same team) was 20k. Somebody pointed out that our entire team did less damage than that one warlock.

I don't know why blizzard decided to balance the game this way, but they did. I also don't know why warlock's needed pets, healthstones, and a way to convert health into mana. Why do they get shadow bolts (or whatever) when they so desparately need unbreakable fear to get their dots out? I don't know. Why do they get an essentially free (you are questing and farming anyway) lvl 40 mount that looks cooler than normal mounts? I don't know. Breathe under water? Ummm... I don't know. EDIT : My best guess is that blizzard wanted to create incentive for new players to choose the warlock class because at some point nobody was playing warlocks. Probably because they were underpowered.

Nobody is ignoring the fact that Blizzard balanced things the way they wanted them balanced. If you could wade through the first 12 pages of this thread you'll read that multiple people have tried to compromise that yes, warlocks at certain level ranges are god-like in pvp. They are the scissor to the mages paper. It was intended that way. Its a strong class that excels in everything in the game. Why do warlock's keep arguing?

Lol, yesterday I did an AB on my 69 Hunter, well-geared for the bracket, and one match I ended up with 185k damage done and the next highest player on either team was at 90k. I was double what the next best player was. Complete and utter ownage.

Of course I had been doing pvp for hours and was in rhythm but I was pretty unstoppable.

[icutyoubad]

No they can't, sheep is essentially an instant heal so it only works once. And you have to be spec'ed a certain way to take half of anybodies health in one shot.

But cool, I'll let it go since we've come to an agreement.

My warlock is 41/41/41, which is why I have ALL of the abilites that piss you off so much, and why I am an unstoppable killing machine in BGs, and why I do 30 million more damage than everyone else in my guild in Kara even though my gear is all grays and whites I got while farming spiders, snakes, rats, rabbits, and all manner of critters.

[fzyx]

My warlock is 41/41/41, which is why I have ALL of the abilites that piss you off so much, and why I am an unstoppable killing machine in BGs, and why I do 30 million more damage than everyone else in my guild in Kara even though my gear is all grays and whites I got while farming spiders, snakes, rats, rabbits, and all manner of critters.

Do you have to spec for a pet, fear, and dots?

[Tanitha]

But cool, I'll let it go since we've come to an agreement.

:laugh: I wouldn't call that an agreement, it seems more like you've verbally bludgeoned somebody into a reluctant submission. Personally, I see you take every single skill of a Warlock and call it OP and (?) that it should be changed. Maybe the time has come to actually roll a Warlock and play that rather than a mage? Of course, your tune will change then when you've actually played the class and seen that half of what seems overpowered simply isn't when you are the one driving it.

Why - last night a mage (47) two levels below me (49) two shotted me. I was busy fighting a 48 Elite Giant in Feralas, at about 2/3rd of my health and mana when the giant died. Next thing I see is a fireball incoming that ate about half of that. Seduced him. Nuked him with Soul Fire (800 odd damage) but he absorbed / resisted everything but 150 of that. EEK! Blinked into range, I could cast two dots before he did something and I died.

So yeah. Mages are overpowered. Nerf their fireballs. Nerf their blink. Nerf their incredible resistance to magic. Oh, and nerf their ability to have instant cast direct damage spells. They should make do with a staff.

[fzyx]

:laugh: I wouldn't call that an agreement, it seems more like you've verbally bludgeoned somebody into a reluctant submission. Personally, I see you take every single skill of a Warlock and call it OP and (?) that it should be changed. Maybe the time has come to actually roll a Warlock and play that rather than a mage? Of course, your tune will change then when you've actually played the class and seen that half of what seems overpowered simply isn't when you are the one driving it.

Why - last night a mage (47) two levels below me (49) two shotted me. I was busy fighting a 48 Elite Giant in Feralas, at about 2/3rd of my health and mana when the giant died. Next thing I see is a fireball incoming that ate about half of that. Seduced him. Nuked him with Soul Fire (800 odd damage) but he absorbed / resisted everything but 150 of that. EEK! Blinked into range, I could cast two dots before he did something and I died.

So yeah. Mages are overpowered. Nerf their fireballs. Nerf their blink. Nerf their incredible resistance to magic. Oh, and nerf their ability to have instant cast direct damage spells. They should make do with a staff.

Its not two-shotting if you were at 2/3 health... That would be a three shot and its very unlikely they would crit 3 times in a row or that they could have gotten off three long wind-up fireballs without you or your pet interrupting them. And I also wouldn't call a surprise attack while you were otherwise occupied a fair fight. That is probably the only way a mage your level or lower has any chance whatsoever to beat you, and he took advantage of it.

My warlock made it to lvl 9 last night. Obviously too early to make any observations, but having a pet, dots, and a decent long-range nuke at lvl 6 makes the game so much easier.

Plus, how could I verbally bludgeon somebody into a reluctant submission when it was the first time they've posted in this thread (as far as I remember)?

I wouldn't expect warlock's to admit they are overpowered, which is why this is so fun.

So, in answer to the original poster, as far as I can tell, warlock's are still as overpowered as they have ever been in the sub-60 range.

[Icefrost]

The most OP aspect of a warlock is that their succubi can seduce my female character.:thumbsup:

[Tanitha]

Its not two-shotting if you were at 2/3 health... That would be a three shot and its very unlikely they would crit 3 times in a row or that they could have gotten off three long wind-up fireballs without you or your pet interrupting them.

Two shots to death == two shotting. The giant had done the other damage.


And I also wouldn't call a surprise attack while you were otherwise occupied a fair fight. That is probably the only way a mage your level or lower has any chance whatsoever to beat you, and he took advantage of it.

Ah, so taking advantage of what they had available and playing their class well? And he did play his class well. If Warlocks were so overpowered I should have been able to kill him no? But no, he stopped me casting spells so I couldn't even get an instant Deathcoil off. But no, it seems that mages can take a higher level Warlock on and still win if they play well. That seems pretty reasonable to me. Especially as the 40-49 range is the sweet spot for Warlocks. (That's when we're at our strongest)

So - a mage using all his abilities, terrain, the situation and so on to his advantage manages to down a higher level Warlock. How is this different to a Warlock using all their abilities, terrain and the situation to their advantage when taking on other players?

It isn't. You just seem a little blinkered by the fact that each and every class is OP in their own way and seem to like taking it out on Warlocks while not acknowledging that your own class is just as powerful when played right. :laugh:

Plus, how could I verbally bludgeon somebody into a reluctant submission when it was the first time they've posted in this thread (as far as I remember)?

People read, even when they don't post. And frankly, the one line stance has me wanting to capitulate and lie and say: "Yeah, okay. Fine. Warlocks are OP. Even if it's untrue. Now just make it stop, please!"

[Kinjal]

Are you kidding? we are ALL under powered - hence the super slow raid progression and blizz buffing tons of gear.


OP? Give me a break....

Well geared Mage crits a pyro blast on someone who just dinged 70 and they cry OVERPOWERD!

That same mage gets two shotted 5 min later and they cry OVERPOWERED ROGUES!

That rogue gets chain feared by a lock and cry OVERPOWERED!

That lock gets owned by a BM hunter and cry OVERPOWERED!

If your a pally, don't expect to two shot anyone- if your a rogue, don't complain when you can't take 4 mobes at once. Some classes are BETTER for PVP and some are BETTER for PVE and some are BETTER for arenas- none of them are overpowered.


Everytime a class gets a nerf 3 guilds on each swerver stop progressing.
(Please note all facts in this post were made up on the spot.)



I would have to agree I think we are all fairly balanced.. it's just people cry about different classes and we all form our opinions... and then we claim the fact that a certain class is over power.

[fzyx]

Two shots to death == two shotting. The giant had done the other damage.


If you had 60 out of 3000 hp left I could wand you to death in one shot, does that mean I can one shot you with my wand? To me, saying you can one-shot somebody has to imply that the person was at full health to start with, otherwise its a meaningless statement. The only reason he was able to kill you is because he took advantage of you already being low health, got lucky with crits, and played his class well. Thats a far cry from fear/dot=dead.

[Tanitha]

If you had 60 out of 3000 hp left I could wand you to death in one shot, does that mean I one shotted you with my wand?
You'd have killed me in one shot, wouldn't you? So yes, then you one shotted me.

The only reason he was able to kill you is because he took advantage of you already being low health, got lucky with crits, and played his class well. Thats a far-cry from fear/dot=dead.

I wouldn't call 1400 odd hitpoints low health, not at that level. We'd probably have been roughly equal in terms of health at that time.

Fear+dot != death. Have you seen somebody break that Fear? Or resist it? Or healed inbetween / popped a potion and come back to rip the Warlock a new one? From this side of the keyboard it happens roughly half the fights you have.

Player skill > Warlock.

[fzyx]

You'd have killed me in one shot, wouldn't you? So yes, then you one shotted me.



I wouldn't call 1400 odd hitpoints low health, not at that level. We'd probably have been roughly equal in terms of health at that time.

Fear+dot != death. Have you seen somebody break that Fear? Or resist it? Or healed inbetween / popped a potion and come back to rip the Warlock a new one? From this side of the keyboard it happens roughly half the fights you have.

Player skill > Warlock.

From this side of the keyboard I'd say about 1 in 10 of my fights with warlocks involve me running around like a chicken with its head cut-off watching my health drop from dots. No other class has killed me without me ever having a chance to do a single thing... That is overpowered. Even if it only works 1 in 10 times. The rest of the time I survive the fear/dots and start a fight severly disadvantaged, and oh yeah, there is a pet beating on me.

And yes, I corrected my statement about one-shotting. We are using the term differently, to say you can one-shot somebody (in my opinion) you are implying that the person is at full health. I can't run around saying I can one-shot you if I only wanded your last 60 health. If I could, I could say I can one shot every class in the game because there is always one last shot.

[Wiired]

I've only just read the last few posts here, and it seems it's become another "Warlocks are / aren't overpowered" fight.

I'm going to approach this in two way. First as a player, then as a developer.

There's nothing more annoying than fighting a Warlock and you die while they chain fear you. However, as Blizzard has said in the past, "This game is not balanced around one on one." The arenas show that. Most top Arena groups don't have more than one Warlock.

So no, Warlocks aren't overpowered.

[fzyx]

I've only just read the last few posts here, and it seems it's become another "Warlocks are / aren't overpowered" fight.

I'm going to approach this in two way. First as a player, then as a developer.

There's nothing more annoying than fighting a Warlock and you die while they chain fear you. However, as Blizzard has said in the past, "This game is not balanced around one on one." The arenas show that. Most top Arena groups don't have more than one Warlock.

So no, Warlocks aren't overpowered.

Warlocks are not overpowered across the board, thats true. Personally I couldn't care less about arena teams though.

[Tanitha]

From this side of the keyboard I'd say about 1 in 10 of my fights with warlocks involve me running around like a chicken with its head cut-off watching my health drop from dots. No other class has killed me without me ever having a chance to do a single thing... That is overpowered. Even if it only works 1 in 10 times. The rest of the time I survive the fear/dots and start a fight severly disadvantaged, and oh yeah, there is a pet beating on me.

Or a Hunter could open at range with an Aimed shot, then send in his pet. Or a Beast Master could have one of those insanely fast attacking pets which means you don't get any cast beyond instant off. (Warlocks have 4 (?) of those - three are dots two of which need talent points to get)

Or a rogue comes out of stealth and does his kidney shot, cheap shot, stun, blah blah routine and by the time he's out of energy you're either dead or at less than one third of your life.

Or that druid prowls around stealthed in kitty form, and once he's done all the same things rogues do to you, he flips to bear form and suddenly bumps up in health like nothing that has gone before. And when you do get a Fear + Dot off, he shifts to caster, heals over time and you're back to square one and quite probably dead as we don't have much in the way of healing. (One interruptable channeling spell and health stones. Ooooooo)

Or a Warrior intercepts and begins unleashing all sorts of goodness on you. I don't know the names of them, but I've been caught in that position many, many times. Often you don't even get a Fear off before you're dead.

Or ... Or ... Or ...

I'm not even going to delve into what is it that mages do? Pyroblast, followed by blink, followed by instant cast insanely direct damage.
What you are suggesting about Warlocks is possible and probably with every single class in the game. It happens.

[fzyx]

Or a Hunter could open at range with an Aimed shot, then send in his pet. Or a Beast Master could have one of those insanely fast attacking pets which means you don't get any cast beyond instant off. (Warlocks have 4 (?) of those - three are dots two of which need talent points to get)

Or a rogue comes out of stealth and does his kidney shot, cheap shot, stun, blah blah routine and by the time he's out of energy you're either dead or at less than one third of your life.

Or that druid prowls around stealthed in kitty form, and once he's done all the same things rogues do to you, he flips to bear form and suddenly bumps up in health like nothing that has gone before. And when you do get a Fear + Dot off, he shifts to caster, heals over time and you're back to square one and quite probably dead as we don't have much in the way of healing. (One interruptable channeling spell and health stones. Ooooooo)

Or a Warrior intercepts and begins unleashing all sorts of goodness on you. I don't know the names of them, but I've been caught in that position many, many times. Often you don't even get a Fear off before you're dead.

Or ... Or ... Or ...

I'm not even going to delve into what is it that mages do? Pyroblast, followed by blink, followed by instant cast insanely direct damage.
What you are suggesting about Warlocks is possible and probably with every single class in the game. It happens.

The difference is that none of those classes can use crowd control on you while they damage you. Blizzard broke their own ruleset to ensure that warlock's had a good place in pvp. And yes, beast master hunters are also on my list of overpowered classes. They know it though, its practically in the talent descriptions. Thats why people spec beast master, specifically to "wtfpwn" in pvp.

Let my mage sheep somebody without healing while ignite continues to tick away, then I'll say we're even.

[zzzzzzz]

From this side of the keyboard I'd say about 1 in 10 of my fights with warlocks involve me running around like a chicken with its head cut-off watching my health drop from dots. No other class has killed me without me ever having a chance to do a single thing... That is overpowered. Even if it only works 1 in 10 times. The rest of the time I survive the fear/dots and start a fight severly disadvantaged, and oh yeah, there is a pet beating on me.

And yes, I corrected my statement about one-shotting. We are using the term differently, to say you can one-shot somebody (in my opinion) you are implying that the person is at full health. I can't run around saying I can one-shot you if I only wanded your last 60 health. If I could, I could say I can one shot every class in the game because there is always one last shot.


I die to rogues 9 out of 10 times as they rip locks up. Where as a mage can blink out of it. Locks cannot win against a rogue but I don't go around saying rogues of OP nerf them! Every class has a class that are vertually unbeatable. These also change a great deal at different levels. Just because you cannot beat locks at your current level doesn't mean you won't be able to take them on later.

I have posted in this forum and I have posted in other forum's where you were screaming the "Locks are OP'ed" crap. I have no problems with debates but with you it's like every ability a lock has should be taken away. Maybe they should nuke the warlock class and make everyone roll a mage? You complain about what is wrong but never give any suggestions of how they could change it. Just because you cannot beat a lock you have to go scream to everyone that locks are OP when maybe you just don't know how to play your own class. I was dueling a mage the other night that was consistantly ripping me apart. It was fun as hell and I learned quite a bit on how to fight them but if I was so OP'ed skill would not have anything to do with it I would just have feared and dotted him and it would have been end of story right?

Grant it mages usually are not as big a problem for locks then other classes. But then again locks are not as big a problem for rogues as other classes. We are your anti-class as rogues are ours. Deal with it and stfu already.

[fzyx]

I die to rogues 9 out of 10 times as they rip locks up. Where as a mage can blink out of it. Locks cannot win against a rogue but I don't go around saying rogues of OP nerf them! Every class has a class that are vertually unbeatable. These also change a great deal at different levels. Just because you cannot beat locks at your current level doesn't mean you won't be able to take them on later.

I have posted in this forum and I have posted in other forum's where you were screaming the "Locks are OP'ed" crap. I have no problems with debates but with you it's like every ability a lock has should be taken away. Maybe they should nuke the warlock class and make everyone roll a mage? You complain about what is wrong but never give any suggestions of how they could change it. Just because you cannot beat a lock you have to go scream to everyone that locks are OP when maybe you just don't know how to play your own class. I was dueling a mage the other night that was consistantly ripping me apart. It was fun as hell and I learned quite a bit on how to fight them but if I was so OP'ed skill would not have anything to do with it I would just have feared and dotted him and it would have been end of story right?

Grant it mages usually are not as big a problem for locks then other classes. But then again locks are not as big a problem for rogues as other classes. We are your anti-class as rogues are yours. Deal with it and stfu already.

Getting personal now huh? Which other forum have we both posted on? As far as I know this is the only wow forum I post on...

The other classes follow rules, my suggestion is to change fear so that it breaks on damage (even below lvl 60). That way every class would be virtually even.

[Kyusoath]

so if fear breaks on any damage, what would you replace the affliction tree with ? because fear doesn't break on damage so you can apply dots to them.

not every warlock uses fear like this, not every warlock is 41/x/x , not every warlock relies on dots.

the ones that do use fear in this manner, would be completely destroyed by that change, pvp would be pointless as 41/x/x because why spec heavily into dots when you'll spend ~10 seconds casting them all , with very little damage being done , while you (mr mage) blow him away with direct damage, yes you'd like tha wouldn't you.

' The other classes follow rules' what are you talking about ? all the cc abilities in the game are different and work differently Sap only works OOC, sheep regens health, fear allows damage but runs them around madly, ice trap needs skill and reappling to use as CC

[fzyx]

so if fear breaks on any damage, what would you replace the affliction tree with ? because fear doesn't break on damage so you can apply dots to them.

not every warlock uses fear like this, not every warlock is 41/x/x , not every warlock relies on dots.

the ones that do use fear in this manner, would be completely destroyed by that change, pvp would be pointless as 41/x/x because why spec heavily into dots when you'll spend ~10 seconds casting them all , with very little damage being done , while you (mr mage) blow him away with direct damage, yes you'd like tha wouldn't you.

' The other classes follow rules' what are you talking about ? all the cc abilities in the game are different and work differently Sap only works OOC, sheep regens health, fear allows damage but runs them around madly, ice trap needs skill and reappling to use as CC


So make it a learnable talent to reduce the chance of fear breaking. The truth is, if I am wrong and fear is not an overpowered skill, then it should make no difference if it is brought in line with other forms of crowd control. Those of you that don't need it/use it, great, it won't change anything for you... Of course its a moot point because none of us have any say in it, but for arguments sake.

EDIT : All cc has different qualities, but all follow the same rule that damage will break the cc. I don't know how many times I've forgotten to wait until serpent sting is up on my hunter before ice trapping somebody.

[zzzzzzz]

Getting personal now huh? Which other forum have we both posted on? As far as I know this is the only wow forum I post on...

The other classes follow rules, my suggestion is to change fear so that it breaks on damage (even below lvl 60). That way every class would be virtually even.

Not personal its just that there will be no pleasing you. As far a forum, maybe I should have said thread like this one http://forums.worldofwar.net/showthread.php?t=392285&page=9 Same old story different thread. You just are hell bent on getting locks nerfed even though you have never played a class to 70. IMO level up then come back and discuss the mechanics of the game. If they break locks at lower levels to fit your needs then what does that do to higher level raiding or maybe heroic runs? PvP is alot tougher at higher levels, every class can just about destroy you in a few seconds especially melee class. If you want to take away our fear ability so that we have no Defence then give us more instant DD spells... hold on think there is another class that can already do that? Yeah lets just nuke locks and convert them all to mages that should fix it.

Btw not all classes CC breaks when being damaged. Druids can root and nuke with a chance to break just like locks.

[Tanitha]

The difference is that none of those classes can use crowd control on you while they damage you.

Rogue stunlock? But apart from that, other classes have other strengths. Mages deal an incredible amount of rapid burst damage. Hunters have a range/kiting + pet advantage. And so on and so forth. If you're asking for a Warlock to use the CC + damage ability, I'd expect to see a request for Mage burst damage to be reduced, for Rogue's stealth+stun ability to be reduced, etc. But I'm not seeing that. Why?

[NOYB]

Honestly, fear is not that overpowered a form of CC. Anyone can get a PvP trinket that breaks fear. Many classes have talents that reduce fear and stun effects. There are consumables that increase shadow resistance.

Fear and seduce also run into diminishing returns if used too much.

That being said, Warlock PvP is easymode when compared to several other classes. The only class that has a chance of reliably killing my warlock is the rogue, and that's only because of cloak of shadows. Before they get that talent, they die just like everybody else.

[fzyx]

Rogue stunlock? But apart from that, other classes have other strengths. Mages deal an incredible amount of rapid burst damage. Hunters have a range/kiting + pet advantage. And so on and so forth. If you're asking for a Warlock to use the CC + damage ability, I'd expect to see a request for Mage burst damage to be reduced, for Rogue's stealth+stun ability to be reduced, etc. But I'm not seeing that. Why?

Because I don't think those other classes are overpowered? When I'm in battlegrounds or world pvp I don't see people literally running from mages? I've never seen one at the top of the damage charts? Because mages have been nerfed to hell already? Because a mages instant burst damage can't kill anything on its own and in pvp you will -never- get a chance to wind up a long cast spell? There are countless reasons.

Maybe because I've never had a rogue my same level bring me from full health to zero health without a chance to do a single thing? Maybe because stealth/stun is the only ability that rogues have?

But to answer your question without other questions, other classes have imbalances as well. I just don't consider their abilities overpowered, its just the abilities that the class has at its disposal.

Anyway, this is pointless as so many have pointed out so this will be my last post in this thread. Have fun with your warlocks! :thumbsup:

[Pongle]

The sheer level of ****tardedness in this thread makes me think I'm on the official boards.

Most classes are fairly effective right now, I guess you could say Paladins are OP because pretty much every top end 5v5 team has one, but thats really about all.

[thmpr]

If there isn't a significant nerf to warlocks (and I don't think there is), then it's still warlocks that are the most overpowered:

Excellent raid utility, highest DPS, a variety of pets, free mounts, soulstones, unbreakable (for the most part) crowd control, DoT's that last even after the lock is dead, best survivability of any cloth wearer...need I go on?

At the moment, warlocks are the most dominant class in PvP AND PvE.

Not on my server.

I hear this complaint often - but it's either of hunter or warlock.
Yet I see Horde Shamans & rogues being the lords of the arena,
not warlocks or hunters.

[thmpr]

Honestly, fear is not that overpowered a form of CC. Anyone can get a PvP trinket that breaks fear. Many classes have talents that reduce fear and stun effects. There are consumables that increase shadow resistance.

Fear and seduce also run into diminishing returns if used too much.

That being said, Warlock PvP is easymode when compared to several other classes. The only class that has a chance of reliably killing my warlock is the rogue, and that's only because of cloak of shadows. Before they get that talent, they die just like everybody else.

Exactly. Horde get fear trinkets pretty easy from what I've seen,
as my alliance warlock can't get fear to work on one of the suckers in BG for anything...they must sell them at vendors LOL (just kidding, but it must be pretty easy to get)

And once they get it - there goes the "warlocks are god" theory.

I do wish people would stop whining about the "unbeatable" class theory.
It's foolish.
Just because Horde Shamans kick my butt in PVP doesn't mean that I think they're overpowered and need to be nerfed ---
it means they are better players than I am.

Stop whining and looking for excuses - accept responsibility and take ownership of reality - they play better than you do, or use better tactics, and in time, you will too :)

[thmpr]

Geez if you are going to whine about PVP so much rather than just
learn how to do it better and put some thought & practice into what you do,
go play a PS2 game or something. When dealing with real people behind your opponents' actions, you're going to have to learn how to play your class, and learn how they play THEIR classes, as well - whining won't make it better.

It's not blizzards' fault - get out of society's mindset of blaming other people for everything -

isn't it a remarkable twist of fate that it's ALWAYS
someone else's fault for our problems? LOL

[Schift]

Thmpr, you can edit your posts within an hour. You don't have to post three in a row.

Also, Blizzard is constantly trying to balance the classes, and I'm pretty sure they aren't perfected yet (and I doubt they ever will be). There is plenty of validity for people posting their opinions on which classes are too powerful compared to the majority of other classes, and why.

[Icefrost]

Anyone can get a PvP trinket that breaks fear. Many classes have talents that reduce fear and stun effects. There are consumables that increase shadow resistance.


And the fact that I must have all that stuff with me whenever there is a 0.1% chance that I might run into a warlock to even expect to run away from him does not make it seem a tad too powerful?
Never needed anything more than my trinket to have a reasonable chance to beat most classes.

PvP is alot tougher at higher levels, every class can just about destroy you in a few secondsI can't. And that's assuming you stand there doing nothing and I go all out, blowing every single cooldown and item I have.

fear allows damage AND runs them around madlyThat's more like it.

[zzzzzzz]

And the fact that I must have all that stuff with me whenever there is a 0.1% chance that I might run into a warlock to even expect to run away from him does not make it seem a tad too powerful?
Never needed anything more than my trinket to have a reasonable chance to beat most classes.

I can't. And that's assuming you stand there doing nothing and I go all out, blowing every single cooldown and item I have.
That's more like it.

Nope its the same factor as I must have my seduction pet out when fighting a rogue or have my felpuppy out when fighting a mage.

Fear has a higher chance of breaking now with DOT's applied just like a druids root does. Again all classes have a defense mechanism to use it. Pally's get a flipping bubble that they can heal and still do damage while invulnerable to anything. Rogues get CoTS mages get blink, IB, Sheep AOE Stun depending on specs. Hunters get silence, scatter shot the list goes on. Locks fear is a pain but in the last patch blizz somewhat addressed that issue at least for the higher levels.

I am well geared 1142 shadow damage (granted raiding gear) and I still get destroyed quite often in pvp especially from rogues, hunters and fury warriors. I would say thats balanced but maybe your right and I just suck at pvp :ponder:

[Icefrost]

Fear has a higher chance of breaking now with DOT's applied just like a druids root does.
Then again, the only thing roots stops you from doing is moving, which shouldn't matter that much since I'm the one on the run by then.
Again all classes have a defense mechanism to use it.And yet I fail to find one on me. 2-3 spells that all require me to wait at least 2 global cooldows before I can use them are hardly something to stop a 1.5sec cast with.

I am well geared 1142 shadow damage (granted raiding gear) and I still get destroyed quite often in pvp especially from rogues, hunters and fury warriors. I would say thats balanced but maybe your right and I just suck at pvp :ponder:Not sure what that is supposed to mean. I was merely pointing out that at least I can't do that, not that someone else can't do it either.

[icutyoubad]

Warlocks are not overpowered across the board, thats true. Personally I couldn't care less about arena teams though.

Ah, see, that's where this whole issue stems from. Unfortunately, Blizzard could care less about your personal feelings on the warlock class, arenas, 1 vs 1 PvP, or anything at ll. Come to think of it, I could care less--oh wait, no, I couldn't.

I think you've proved you are a whiny crybaby. I'm not coming back to this thread.

[owlx]

Again all classes have a defense mechanism to use it. Pally's get a flipping bubble that they can heal and still do damage while invulnerable to anything. Rogues get CoTS mages get blink, IB, Sheep AOE Stun depending on specs. Hunters get silence, scatter shot the list goes on.


Shamans aren't on that list............. and if you say tremor totem, I laugh at your ignorance.

Pally cannot attack when their bubble is up, if I remember correctly.

[owlx]

Ah, see, that's where this whole issue stems from. Unfortunately, Blizzard could care less about your personal feelings on the warlock class, arenas, 1 vs 1 PvP, or anything at ll. Come to think of it, I could care less--oh wait, no, I couldn't.

I think you've proved you are a whiny crybaby. I'm not coming back to this thread.


Irony FTL.

LMAO

[Azmyth]

I agree.. that there are some aspects of warlocks that can be considered overpowered..

there are a few classes that come to mind when you think about overpowered abilities.. its not so much that they ARE.. but how they get used.

before the patch.. a warlock WOULD indeed make sure you are feared for the entire fight.. is this right? yes its an ability they have.. they can use it, but at the same time its a little aggrivating to some classes when they only get 1 trinket to get out of it 1 time.. and in pvp where you have more than 1 warlock or priest.. that 1 trinket is not enough for the 6 times you will get feared.

I've always thought it should break auto.. after a set number of dot ticks.. and break in 6 secs.. if no dots are applied.. and break auto on direct damage. one day I did a test.. and a warlock who Doesn't fear me.. in bear.. form can dot me up with a full set of dots.. like he would do IF i was feared.. was still able to take over half my HP in the first round of dots.. and just imagine if i was feared this whole time? Warlocks do not need fear, they just use it as a crutch.

I know plenty of amazing warlocks who rarely use fear in this manner.. but the way the spell is designed.. it caters to OMGIWIN players.. who don't know jack about how to to play the cast as a whole.. so they pigeon whole their whole arsenal behind 1 spell.

warlock is one of the only classes who can have the same strat vs. every class they face..

I can't tell you as a druid.. if I tried to use the same strat vs. every class I played.. I would get wtfpwnd.

I'll agree.. that mages have their overpoweredness too.. with being able to literally kill you with 2 spells if specced for it.. but, they have to spec for it.. and they lose alot of survivability in the process... warlocks can spec however they want, and still overuse fear.

there are other classes that have abilities similar that i won't go into.

I have a warlock myself, and I find them fun, and both boring at times.. watching life tick away is not as satisfying to me as actually being on top of your corpse when you die.. because I DEALT the damage to you directly.. not by running around poles hoping I'm out of LOS..

my 2 cents

[timebomb]

did some one here say locks are OP? OMG

if you ask a lock he'll tell you they are suposed to be OP. you can find many threads on this.

[fzyx]

Ah, see, that's where this whole issue stems from. Unfortunately, Blizzard could care less about your personal feelings on the warlock class, arenas, 1 vs 1 PvP, or anything at ll. Come to think of it, I could care less--oh wait, no, I couldn't.

I think you've proved you are a whiny crybaby. I'm not coming back to this thread.

I lied I can't stay out of this... Think what you want. I'm not the only person that feels that Blizzard is catering to the elitist high-end gamers and forsaking the rest of us. If they continue ignoring the concerns of the "average" player they will lose much of their "8 million" player base to the next generation of mmorpg's that do address the many issues. Balancing being one of those issues. The game experience below level 70 is equally (perhaps more) important than the game at 70. I can guarantee that at least 90% of people playing wow spend their entire wow experience below level 70.

I'm not going to argue anymore, just going to post the only intelligent discussion I've ever read about the fear issue :

http://forums.subcreation.net/viewtopic.php?id=3275

My lock got fear and the voidwalker last night, if you can't beat em, join em! :evil:

[Tanitha]

Pally cannot attack when their bubble is up, if I remember correctly.

They can. Their first two levels of the bubble does not allow for attacking, but somewhere in the 30s or 40s they get one they can act normally in, including attacking and so forth.

[Icefrost]

somewhere in the 30s or 40s they get one they can act normally in, including attacking and so forth.
Except that their attack speed with the bubble up is something like 40% or so, IIRC.

[Tanitha]

Except that their attack speed with the bubble up is something like 40% or so, IIRC.

50%, you are correct. However, if they are speccing protection they can through talent points increases their total Stamina by 3-6%, reduced the cooldown of your Divine Shield spell by 30-60 sec and reduces the attack penalty by 50-100%. A very useful investment of talent points, at least I found that to be the case on my Paladin.

But you're a Druid, my poor little Warlocks' nemesis. What am I doing sharing sekrit information like this with you! I'm sure it's against the contract rules I signed with Blizzard to keep my class so OP that they'll lose all their customers. Yes. You will forget what I just told you.

(Where's that priest with Mind Control when you need him!)

[shifttusk]

<<I am well geared 1142 shadow damage (granted raiding gear) and I still get destroyed quite often in pvp especially from rogues, hunters and fury warriors. I would say thats balanced but maybe your right and I just suck at pvp>>

You probably also only have 7500 hp or so. You're getting owned because you dont have pvp gear.

[Tanitha]

The game experience below level 70 is equally (perhaps more) important than the game at 70. I can guarantee that at least 90% of people playing wow spend their entire wow experience below level 70.

I'm not going to argue anymore, just going to post the only intelligent discussion I've ever read about the fear issue

That was a rather interesting read, although I'm shattered you don't think we've had an intelligent discussion so far. Must be because we don't agree? :wink: (Said in jest, hence the wink)

What they miss in that discussion is that Warlocks, unlike all the classes they have listed there, have no escape clause. While Mages have Blink, Ice Block through talents, Druids have a caster form heal, Paladins have their bubble and so on, Hunters have feign death - we have nothing to save us when things go pear shaped. And most of the time those simply provide a fresh platform from which to launch an attack, and as we've seen in the case of Paladins, cleanse, become immune to everything AND keep on attacking.

Fear and Deathcoil ARE our escape clauses. Yes, it still allows for damage, but how would you change that without turning a Warlock into a squishy with no viability?

[owlx]

They can. Their first two levels of the bubble does not allow for attacking, but somewhere in the 30s or 40s they get one they can act normally in, including attacking and so forth.

ahh good to know. I only have a twink pally, and I never really pay attention to attacking pallies anyways..........I rarely see one that does and significant damage :P

[owlx]

Fear and Deathcoil ARE our escape clauses. Yes, it still allows for damage, but how would you change that without turning a Warlock into a squishy with no viability?

rename them shamans? oh wait you saidthey had to be viable......:rolleyes: :tongue:

Make the slowing curse trainable instead of a talent?

[fzyx]

That was a rather interesting read, although I'm shattered you don't think we've had an intelligent discussion so far. Must be because we don't agree? :wink: (Said in jest, hence the wink)

What they miss in that discussion is that Warlocks, unlike all the classes they have listed there, have no escape clause. While Mages have Blink, Ice Block through talents, Druids have a caster form heal, Paladins have their bubble and so on, Hunters have feign death - we have nothing to save us when things go pear shaped. And most of the time those simply provide a fresh platform from which to launch an attack, and as we've seen in the case of Paladins, cleanse, become immune to everything AND keep on attacking.

Fear and Deathcoil ARE our escape clauses. Yes, it still allows for damage, but how would you change that without turning a Warlock into a squishy with no viability?

Since Blizz seems to enjoy giving the same talent to all classes with some small variation, maybe let the warlock shift phases for 10 seconds where they can't do anything but their dots keep ticking? This would save the warlock, let them do damage, but give the opposition a fighting chance?

In that post the guy actually suggested changing fear to root the person in place and to break on periodic damage. This gives the warlock a chance to get range, get their pet on the opposition, reset the battle, and save themselves.

I'm actually not familiar with deathcoil, but if I'm right from warlock battles its essentially a stun/silence for a couple seconds?

I don't know. Like the guy said in the linked post though, I don't think fear is the correct answer (surprised, I know :) ). It seems like a bandaid to me, like devs at some point said "you know, warlocks are really weak because they have no 'get the f off me' skill. lets give them a crowd control like sheep that lets their dots continue ticking and doesn't heal".

[Tanitha]

Make the slowing curse trainable instead of a talent?

That was an interesting / odd suggestion in the linked thread. Curse of Exhaustion is so useless that you'll find very few Warlocks using it. About the only time it has any real viability is when you are Fear ponging a mob and trying to keep it close so it doesn't aggro anything else.

But yes, it would be about on par with a Druids' Roots. That leaves Warlocks without the HoT and other heals then. So what gives them the healing then?

And would nerfing a Warlocks' Fear have a priests Mind Control and Fear nerfed as well?

maybe let the warlock shift phases for 10 seconds where they can't do anything but their dots keep ticking? This would save the warlock, let them do damage, but give the opposition a fighting chance?

I quite like that idea. It's a nice sounding spell and has some class crossover with the Imp gaining Phase Shift already. Perhaps the answer is to have a "halp halp I'm being repressed" ability depending on the pet they have.

If you dislike Fear though you are REALLY going to hate Deathcoil. It's an instant cast, ranged Fear that does damage and heals the Warlock for the amount of damage it deals. And it causes Terror, not Fear so it can't be broken in the normal ways that Fear can. It's on a long cooldown though and lasts for something like 3 seconds, so it's only a quick "halp halp".

[owlx]

Then spec elemental to extend your earth shock range.

You know fear has the same range as your shocks. 20 yards untalent, 24 yards talented.




um......shock range can only be improved with gear, not talents........If there is a talent that extends the range of my shocks, please let me know, I'll respec immediately.

Any other bright ideas for shamans facing Warlocks.......other than "l2p," "run," or "reroll?"

I respeced my shaman to make him a little more versatile. I do a little better. Still limited a little bit by gear. until Shamans get to join the CC party with all the other classes, or we at least have a reliable way of escaping snares, offensively, we are bottom of the barrel.

[fzyx]

um......shock range can only be improved with gear, not talents........If there is a talent that extends the range of my shocks, please let me know, I'll respec immediately.

Any other bright ideas for shamans facing Warlocks.......other than "l2p," "run," or "reroll?"

I respeced my shaman to make him a little more versatile. I do a little better. Still limited a little bit by gear. until Shamans get to join the CC party with all the other classes, or we at least have a reliable way of escaping snares, offensively, we are bottom of the barrel.

I had a shaman two shotting me the other day in the bg's, they must not be too low in the barrel.

[owlx]

That was an interesting / odd suggestion in the linked thread. Curse of Exhaustion is so useless that you'll find very few Warlocks using it. About the only time it has any real viability is when you are Fear ponging a mob and trying to keep it close so it doesn't aggro anything else.

But yes, it would be about on par with a Druids' Roots. That leaves Warlocks without the HoT and other heals then. So what gives them the healing then?

And would nerfing a Warlocks' Fear have a priests Mind Control and Fear nerfed as well?


It would put warlocks on par with shamans as far as CC ability................cept locks would still have their terrify that can't be broken. And they have Succy and Felguard for either seduce or Charge stuns..........so I think a skilled lock should be able to keep someone off them without fear. It's a heck of a lot more than and 10 yard totem that can be destroyed, avoided, and/or resisted.

2.1 is a step in the right direction, but, still not enough IMO.

[Tanitha]

I had a shaman two shotting me the other day in the bg's, they must not be too low in the barrel.

Was that with a wand when you were at 60 health? :wink: Shamans are right up there with Druids for the class that causes me the most trouble too. But I'm starting to get the impression that my playing style is very different to other people's.

[owlx]

I had a shaman two shotting me the other day in the bg's, they must not be too low in the barrel.


you also said you just got your voidwalker didn't you? So was this on a low level toon, or was it a shaman that got the lucks windfury crit or the lightning overload proc? Shaman's 2 shotting someone is not going to happen as often as a warlock fearing/doting someone or two or three people to death.

post 2.1 warlocks are still cream of the crop. Sure the top arena class will show warrior, but, they are only as good as their support.

[Icefrost]

Perhaps they could add some buff á la weakened soul that makes the feared player immune to all fear effects for the same amount of time that they were feared.
So basically, if I was feared and used trinket or some other trick to break it after 2 seconds, or it breaks on its own, I get a 2 sec fear immunity when it ends. If it lasted its full duration (10 sec?), then I get a 10 sec immunity when I'm done running in circles. And also, the diminishing returns of fear spells would not take this buff into account, but instead, it would actually count as if I only just came out of the fear when the buff ends.
And to have it work, a feared player is always immune to fear, so you can't get around this by fearing me again while I'm still under a previous fear spell.
And also, it would be target-specific, not caster specific. So if I get ganked by 2 warlocks and warlock #1 fears me, then I become immune to warlock #2's fears as well.
And to keep it fair, make it so that it only applies to players, not mobs.

This would apply to all fear based spells, including but not limited to, Death Coil, Fear, Psychic Scream, Intimidating Shout, etc.

And if it's not enough, they could also include charm spells in it too, namely Secude and Mind control.

With some fine tuning it might actually work.

[Tanitha]

And they have Succy and Felguard for either seduce or Charge stuns..........

Succy, yes. Felguard only if you've specced 41 into Demonology. When you're delving that deeply into Demonology you lose a lot of the DoT + Instant Howl of Terror and so on you get from Affliction. So it becomes a bit of a trade-off.

How do you find Shaman lacking at the moment?

[fzyx]

Was that with a wand when you were at 60 health? :wink: Shamans are right up there with Druids for the class that causes me the most trouble too. But I'm starting to get the impression that my playing style is very different to other people's.

LOL, no i was at full health and running to intercept the shaman on his way to the flag. Broke right through my ice barrier (thats 500hp) and then my measly 1700hp. My infamous burst damage of frost nova, cone of cold, fireblast, and arcane explosion only adds up to 1400 damage (probably half of his health if not less). And thats if everything crits. Of course it was in the heat of the battle so I'm saying this a bit tongue-in-cheek. For all I know there was a rogue I couldn't see stabbing me. Anyway, didn't mean to side-track us...

owlx - this was on my lvl 48 mage, not my up-and-coming pvp terror of a warlock. Though this thread has taught me one thing, I've been stacking +sta on gargamael. I think he's up to +3 sta, watch out mages!

[owlx]

Succy, yes. Felguard only if you've specced 41 into Demonology. When you're delving that deeply into Demonology you lose a lot of the DoT + Instant Howl of Terror and so on you get from Affliction. So it becomes a bit of a trade-off.

How do you find Shaman lacking at the moment?

sure a trade off, but, at least it's something


Shamans have zero effective CC abilities and no way to effectively deal with cc. They are the only class without either

by cc I am refering to roots, snares, poly, fear, stun effects.

Earthbind totem is laughable at best. One of the worst slowing effects in the game........thus I do not consider a totem that can be destroyed/avoided to have no effect, or be resisted/dispelled with ease by many to be an effective form of CC.

[fzyx]

sure a trade off, but, at least it's something


Shamans have zero effective CC abilities and no way to effectively deal with cc. They are the only class without both.

by cc I am refering to roots, snares, poly, fear, stun effects.

Earthbind totem is laughable at best. One of the worst slowing effects in the game........thus I do not consider a totem that can be destroyed/avoided to have no effect, or be resisted/dispelled with easy by many an effective form of CC.

I'm going to roll a shaman next, they are probably the biggest mystery to me. Alot of people seem to be scared of shaman, but shaman don't seem to feel they deserve it.

[owlx]

owlx - this was on my lvl 48 mage, not my up-and-coming pvp terror of a warlock. Though this thread has taught me one thing, I've been stacking +sta on gargamael. I think he's up to +3 sta, watch out mages!

i would bet you dollars to doughnuts that you were facing a twink shaman who is in their prime. 39 and 49 shamans pwn..............after that, it's all downhill. I have spent a good amount of time in each pvp bracket with my shaman on the way to 70. 70 is as bad as 19...........actually worse. At least in 19 you can twink and get enchants that almost make you viable as anything other than a healer.

39 and 49 are the best levels to pvp with a shaman............all the other brackets are a struggle to do enough damage to avoid "heal you noob shaman or gtfo of the bg."

[fzyx]

i would bet you dollars to doughnuts that you were facing a twink shaman who is in their prime. 39 and 49 shamans pwn..............after that, it's all downhill. I have spent a good amount of time in each pvp bracket with my shaman on the way to 70. 70 is as bad as 19...........actually worse. At least in 19 you can twink and get enchants that almost make you viable as anything other than a healer.

39 and 49 are the best levels to pvp with a shaman............all the other brackets are a struggle to do enough damage to avoid "heal you noob shaman or gtfo of the bg."

Sounds very likely.

[zzzzzzz]

Perhaps they could add some buff á la weakened soul that makes the feared player immune to all fear effects for the same amount of time that they were feared.
So basically, if I was feared and used trinket or some other trick to break it after 2 seconds, or it breaks on its own, I get a 2 sec fear immunity when it ends. If it lasted its full duration (10 sec?), then I get a 10 sec immunity when I'm done running in circles. And also, the diminishing returns of fear spells would not take this buff into account, but instead, it would actually count as if I only just came out of the fear when the buff ends.
And to have it work, a feared player is always immune to fear, so you can't get around this by fearing me again while I'm still under a previous fear spell.
And also, it would be target-specific, not caster specific. So if I get ganked by 2 warlocks and warlock #1 fears me, then I become immune to warlock #2's fears as well.
And to keep it fair, make it so that it only applies to players, not mobs.

This would apply to all fear based spells, including but not limited to, Death Coil, Fear, Psychic Scream, Intimidating Shout, etc.

And if it's not enough, they could also include charm spells in it too, namely Secude and Mind control.

With some fine tuning it might actually work.


Alot of this I wouldnt have any problems with. But then again I am not a huge PVP guy but I do agree that diminishing returns should at least apply to all fear as you say warlock 1 and 2. But you have to say someone has listened to all the complaints and made a change. I guess the only problem I have is they give and inch but most want a mile. To totally break the class like they had done warriors awhile back.

I respect your post though as I dont see the truely QQ you are OP but instead you are actually making some suggestions.

[Icefrost]

I guess the only problem I have is they give and inch but most want a mile. To totally break the class like they had done warriors awhile back.


Ignore this post if I'm misunderstanding, but I don't see how my suggestion would break anyone's class. It would in no way break the functionality of a single fear spell as it is now. Priests who have a long cooldown on it wouldn't be effected at all unless they are playing with a warlock friend who is trigger-happy with that fear.
Warlocks would still have a choice of several spells to use when you need to get someone off you, only without the possibility to keep their opponent disabled for the rest of the fight while they're at it.
All it would do is stop people from winning fights by spamming that fear button like a lot of them seem to do nowadays. And best of all it would show us just how big part of the warlock population is so completely dependant on the spammability(lol, is there a word like that?) of a single spell. Not to say that it's a big part of them, but I'm sure there are more of them than they'd admit.

Take note though, the chance of fear breaking on damage/resist/whatever would stay at least as high as it is now, because this is in the essence, a downright nerf, not just a mechanics change.

[Findariel]

Well it's sometimes a bit dificult to answer the OP's question as half the respondents only answer the question from a lvl70 with the best gear, and others from a whole range perspective, since playing in other than lvl 70 BGs also could be taken into acount (personally I don't have a lvl 70).

Well in my experience it's still the minion/pet classes that are the strongest. Although there are slight differences in the different brackets, it's usually them who lead the kb/dmg lists and are very hard to beat.

That was an interesting / odd suggestion in the linked thread. Curse of Exhaustion is so useless that you'll find very few Warlocks using it.
Well hmm .. that's not valid for my warlock; I use it both in BGs (esp. in WSG to slow down flagrunners and basically anyone chasing me) as in PvE to kill extremely hard/elite monsters (just keep running around something and DoT them to death). ;)

[Azmyth]

you know last night I was doing halaa pvp..

this one warlock..

did nothing but deathcoil.. dot me up, and run away..

can you guess what the end result was?