My friend is quiting WoW

[Leandar]

My friend and guildie is quiting WoW and is giving me his account. No I didnt buy it I already have a lvl 70 hunter. I want to move his toons from his account to mine. I looked on the website and couldnt find anything about moving toons between accounts. I know blizz can do it. Can some one tell me how to do it or show me on the europe site where it says about moving.

[shadatlol]

you need to be paying with the same credit card first, then there should be a move char. button somewhere just select to different account.. That is I think

[Leandar]

I use a game card but I might be able to use a credit card for a month or two. Is there a way to do it with a game card?

[Baal]

First of all - what you're doing is against the Blizzard ToS and is in no way allowed.

Second, you can only transfer between accounts with the same name.

What you're trying to do pisses a lot of people off and isn't condoned here either... Go away and level up your own character.

[shadatlol]

wow Baal no need for the personal attack. Just because he obviously didn't know it wasn't allowed. Some people....

[Baal]

wow Baal no need for the personal attack. Just because he obviously didn't know it wasn't allowed. Some people....

I didn't make a personal attack at all. I didn't call him a name or anything. I simply let him know what he's doing isn't allowed and is extremely frowned upon and to go level his own character...

You need to be less sensitive.

[Leandar]

I didnt know it was against the ToS, I knew buying an account was but I didnt know a friend giving another friend his account was. I already have a mage at lvl 50 and I know how to play them.

[shadatlol]

'what you're trying to do pisses alot of people off' 'go away and level your own character.' Seems pretty harsh to me for someone who was just asking a question?

[Baal]

I didnt know it was against the ToS, I knew buying an account was but I didnt know a friend giving another friend his account was. I already have a mage at lvl 50 and I know how to play them.

Well you know now :)

And for further reference, any sharing of accounts other than an adult allowing their minor child to play is prohibited.

'what you're trying to do pisses alot of people off' 'go away and level your own character.' Seems pretty harsh to me for someone who was just asking a question?

Perhaps. I guess I tend to assume people have bothered to read the rules of the product they're using... That's my fault there...

[blackgold]

The comment about it pissing people off got me thinking...why does it?

It doesn't piss me off if this guy plays his friend's toon now that it was 'given' to him. Doesn't irritate me that it's probably an exciting time for him to try out new stuff. Doesn't even cause a hint of annoyance that he's going to enjoy his game more now. But it pisses others off? Go figure.

[poopsmcgee]

well personally i have never read an entire eula before i started playing a game and most likely never will.

[Baal]

The comment about it pissing people off got me thinking...why does it?

It doesn't piss me off if this guy plays his friend's toon now that it was 'given' to him. Doesn't irritate me that it's probably an exciting time for him to try out new stuff. Doesn't even cause a hint of annoyance that he's going to enjoy his game more now. But it pisses others off? Go figure.

For me it's because he didn't earn it. He's just being given all the work of someone else without having to do a thing himself.

Also because it's against the ToS - and it's annoying when people think they're above the ToS and that they needn't abide by them.

[blackgold]

Earn what? This isn't about a doctoral degree. He didn't earn the fact that the pixels on his monitor say 70 instead of 1? Big whoop.

[PlayThemAll]

Perhaps. I guess I tend to assume people have bothered to read the rules of the product they're using... That's my fault there...

Honestly, how many people actually read the all of terms of use for every piece of software they install? Did you read the TOS/EULA at the time of install? I know I didn't, I just clicked past it because I wanted to play right now.

It wasn't until I started hearing about powerlevelers, gold sellers and gathering info on this forum that I went back and read the TOS/EULA. I thank the forums educating me with that knowledge.

The OP obvioulsy didn't know, was asking a legitimate question, and could have been informed with a less hostile tone.

[fzyx]

well personally i have never read an entire eula before i started playing a game and most likely never will.

Ditto... This thread is starting to sound very familiar.

[odinsnephew]

My friend and guildie is quiting WoW and is giving me his account. No I didnt buy it I already have a lvl 70 hunter. I want to move his toons from his account to mine. I looked on the website and couldnt find anything about moving toons between accounts. I know blizz can do it. Can some one tell me how to do it or show me on the europe site where it says about moving.

The only way I see this working without violation of the rules would be to get him/her to sell all their items to you - et voila! you have lots of gold. Not the the characters maybe, but who cares? you have a nice bit of money to produce your own alts :thumbsup: & you could even name them the same.

I must add that I do not condone this kind of behaviour.

On another note - if you are already level 70, why bother???

[LunarSolaris]

Can someone post the part of the TOS or EULA where it says somoene can't give another person their account? I know you're not supposed to sell accounts, but I'd like to see where it states you can't just give it to someone.

[Baal]

Earn what? This isn't about a doctoral degree. He didn't earn the fact that the pixels on his monitor say 70 instead of 1? Big whoop.

I've spent over 48 hours to get my character to level 38... And some other guy just has someone give him the account and has to spend no time doing anything to get the character.

Maybe not a big deal to you. But it is to many.

[Toolio]

Although I respect the ToS and rules, I think the real reason most people get pissed about account sharing is because they don't have access to the same situation. Classic "hater" syndrome.

[krayzie]

Although I respect the ToS and rules, I think the real reason most people get pissed about account sharing is because they don't have access to the same situation. Classic "hater" syndrome.

So right! it doesnt piss me off in the slightest. I think it should be allowed coz its not like your getting new level 70 characters or anything... just changing 'ownership'. The one thing i guess bliz want to stop is ppl trading money on the outside for high level characters.

I've spent over 48 hours to get my character to level 38... And some other guy just has someone give him the account and has to spend no time doing anything to get the character.

Maybe not a big deal to you. But it is to many.

What does it matter to you? why should it change your gaming experience? its not like you can tell or anything 'in game' if someone has a shared account. in short, it makes no difference to you, theres no sudden influx of 70's in the game or anything, its just a change of driver... GET OVER IT.

[Kodonn]

Although I respect the ToS and rules, I think the real reason most people get pissed about account sharing is because they don't have access to the same situation. Classic "hater" syndrome.

Well, then you would be wrong. :wink:
Most of the people on this forum are just tired of people trying to paint a black and white line gray and then coming up with excuses why it should be ok for them to cross it.

The TOS and EULA are there for you to read. They pop up and force you to click/accept it EVERYTIME there is a patch. Why do you think that happens ? It's not like it's a bug or something. They do that on purpose so people will be reminded to read it....AND follow it. Get a clue. If you're (not you personally Toolio, just general "you") too lazy to read the rules it's not really anybody's fault but your own when people call you on it.

And if it's against the rules to "sell" your account to another person, AND it's against the rules to "share" your account information with another person, then how could anyone think that it's ok for your buddy to give you his account for free to play ?

:ponder:hmmm...ok. On second thought, maybe there is a way around this.
Your friend can probably give you his account, he just can't tell you his login name, password or secret question, and you can never try to guess them or hack into it to play.

[odinsnephew]

I've spent over 48 hours to get my character to level 38... And some other guy just has someone give him the account and has to spend no time doing anything to get the character.

Maybe not a big deal to you. But it is to many.

Hey mate I agree with you there :)

I will add this just for those who havnt seen it from a previous post by myself on this matter. This is an excerpt on a newbie level 54 :)

I was questing in STV as a low 30's hunter when a lvl54 Nelf hunter unknown to me appeared next to me & asked if I needed assistance. I thought well this is STV and all so replied yes. He helped me with quite a few & I said that I needed to go to Arathi to do a few more & ty for the help i'll see you again. He says he will come & help me there. Brilliant I thought, as he played very well actually.

This is the conversation (generally):
Me: Ok I will HS back to SW & meet you in Arathi?
Him: ?
Me: HS Back to SW to repair/sell stuff, see you in Arathi in 10 mins
Him: What is HS? SW?
Me: Hearthstone to Stormwind!
Him: Umm ok.

Im in SW & look at map to see him walking through Duskwood,
Me: What you doing? Walking to SW?!!
Him: Yeah where are you?
Me: SW. Ready to go mate
Him: How you got there so fast?
Me: /sigh meet you in Duskwood town place then? You know location? (not wanting to confuse him anymore lol)
Him: Yeah k

I eventually met him at Darkshire there & we fly to Arathi after much standing around by the FP. "where is Arathi?" etc, etc

I thought wtf? Who is this guy?

Then after a lot of help in Arathi, he decides to tell me he bought the account off his friend & not to tell anyone. I really couldnt care less about that as he helped me a lot through about 3/4 levels. I just couldnt believe that I knew more than he did at 20 levels below him.

The moral of the story is that there is newby behavior from all levels :)

<edit> I forgot to say that I asked him where his hearthstone would take him to, but that was met with "what are you talking about?". Him being 20 levels higher I thought I was going totally bonkers!!

Still makes me laugh - but he was a good guy really :)

[Tanitha]

So right! it doesnt piss me off in the slightest. I think it should be allowed coz its not like your getting new level 70 characters or anything... just changing 'ownership'.

Or, how about this. A gold seller buys an account, levels a character to 70 and stocks it with 10,000gp. A gold buyer drops $500 into their bank account and picks up the account, because it's just changing 'ownership'. A mule for delivering the gold, a perfect match for the gold selling / power leveling marriage.

Honestly, how many people actually read the all of terms of use for every piece of software they install? Did you read the TOS/EULA at the time of install? I know I didn't, I just clicked past it because I wanted to play right now.

Would you sign a lease / contract / mortgage / loan without reading the documentation? I wouldn't. It's the same with software and, sorry to say it, but it's smart to read all the little terms and conditions that come with it. Because you are entering into an agreement with the company providing that software. And especially because you will be forking over a couple of hundred dollars a year for the right to play the game.

[odinsnephew]

Would you sign a lease / contract / mortgage / loan without reading the documentation? I wouldn't. It's the same with software and, sorry to say it, but it's smart to read all the little terms and conditions that come with it. Because you are entering into an agreement with the company providing that software. And especially because you will be forking over a couple of hundred dollars a year for the right to play the game.


Well said Tanitha. However, I would suggest the majority do not read them. I think it probably comes from the "damned annoyance" of having to read that stuff. But I agree, it should be read & printed off for future correspondence, but again its too easy to just go.............clickplaykill.

<edit> I think putting a few pounds per year (yes, its a lot for some people) into this game isnt in the same "bracket" as a mortgage which involves a significant amount more. As I know at the moment.

[PlayThemAll]

Would you sign a lease / contract / mortgage / loan without reading the documentation? I wouldn't. It's the same with software and, sorry to say it, but it's smart to read all the little terms and conditions that come with it. Because you are entering into an agreement with the company providing that software. And especially because you will be forking over a couple of hundred dollars a year for the right to play the game.

No, Point taken. Can you honestly say you have read every TOS/EULA presented to you at the time of install? (not just WoW but any other piece of software.)

If you say yes then I commend you. My point is that most consumers couldn't be bothered and would just go on blind faith that there is nothing that will hurt them.

[Grendo]

If someone already has a level 70 account of his own, then I have no issues with him/her/anyone giving their account to a friend when they move on from the game.

So it took you two years to hit 70? Boo-hoo. You still enjoyed the game right? And therefore felt the price you paid was worth it? So how does someone else not having to spend time leveling a second toon affect your enjoyment in anyway? Life's not fair, why would you think the interweb is any different?

You can complain on an internet forum all you want about it, more power to you, but its going to make no difference in anyones life but yours, while it raises your blood pressure over something that has zero impact on you. Warn the person that its against the TOS and move on. I promise life will continue anyway.

With 2 70s, and a myriad of 60 toons, Im extremely happy I have friends that are good enough people to be trusted with my accounts when im gone. If it becomes a problem for blizzard, they can close the account and theyll be no harm done. Until then, im glad someone else can benefit from my hard work. E-Charity if you will ;)

[Tanitha]

<edit> I think putting a few pounds per year (yes, its a lot for some people) into this game isnt in the same "bracket" as a mortgage which involves a significant amount more. As I know at the moment.

:laugh: Agreed, especially as floating rates here have just hit mid to upper 9%. But the essence of the comment was to illustrate that World of Warcraft is more of an investment than most other games. You pick up Fable and it's the NZ$99 you spent on buying the box. It ends there. World of Warcraft? Feels like a lifetime already. And a good one at that.

Can you honestly say you have read every TOS/EULA presented to you at the time of install? (not just WoW but any other piece of software.)

Honestly, no. I skim the agreements for evaluation software or tools I use in my job which I know other developers in the company are also using. Things which I am putting my own money down for though or which I'm hoping to have a lengthy relationship with, those I do read carefully.

I wish they would highlight changes in the Terms of Service though with any patch. That would make it a LOT easier. Anyway, my viewpoint is that trading an account, even giving it away is against the Terms of Service. This is debatable and there are clauses that seem to contradict that (Although I'm of the opinion that refers to the media, not the actual account) but to my mind it's an agreement I knowingly entered into. Not really breakable.

[odinsnephew]

:laugh: Agreed, especially as floating rates here have just hit mid to upper 9%. But the essence of the comment was to illustrate that World of Warcraft is more of an investment than most other games. You pick up Fable and it's the NZ$99 you spent on buying the box. It ends there. World of Warcraft? Feels like a lifetime already. And a good one at that.



Honestly, no. I skim the agreements for evaluation software or tools I use in my job which I know other developers in the company are also using. Things which I am putting my own money down for though or which I'm hoping to have a lengthy relationship with, those I do read carefully.

I wish they would highlight changes in the Terms of Service though with any patch. That would make it a LOT easier. Anyway, my viewpoint is that trading an account, even giving it away is against the Terms of Service. This is debatable and there are clauses that seem to contradict that (Although I'm of the opinion that refers to the media, not the actual account) but to my mind it's an agreement I knowingly entered into. Not really breakable.

9% - bloody hell mate & I was thinking of emigrating to NZ :)

yes I agree it is bad practice to not look at the TOS or any agreement you venture into. BUT, people do not........and for the major part they get away with it. Some get caught, some dont.

As you say - once entered its darned difficult to get out so the best option is to "read before you click".

[xDarkDrifterx]

Can someone post the part of the TOS or EULA where it says somoene can't give another person their account? I know you're not supposed to sell accounts, but I'd like to see where it states you can't just give it to someone.

Limitations placed on Account Access:

The ToU speaks extensively about what you may and may not do with a World of Warcraft account. This section highlights a few passages from the ToU that are most relevant to this policy. The core message is that you, and only you (with the exception of a minor authorized to use an account by a parent or guardian), should be accessing an account registered in your name.

Blizzard Entertainment does not recognize the transfer of Accounts between individuals. (Section 1E of the ToU)

You may not share your Account or password with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one (1) minor child to use the Account instead of you (in which case you may not use that Account at the same time). (Section 1A of the ToU)

You are liable for all activities conducted through the Account, including any activities which may be conducted by your minor children that you allow to use your Account. (Section 1A of the ToU)

You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your User Name and password, and you will be responsible for all uses of your User Name and password whether or not authorized by you. Security of your account is your responsibility. (Section 1D of the ToU)

http://www.blizzard.com/support/wowgm/?id=agm01889p

[Valas Azuviir]

My point is that most consumers couldn't be bothered and would just go on blind faith that there is nothing that will hurt them.

And that self same attitude is displayed towards the forum rules we have here, I might add. Much to our annoyance and much to Fluffy's delight.

Yes, Baal was somewhat testy. Then again, this question has been asked before:

Example 1 (http://wow.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=394376&highlight=giving%2C+account%2C+quitting%2C+ToS)

Example 2 (http://wow.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397878&highlight=account+transfer)


Example 3 (http://wow.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=396503&highlight=account+transfer)


And that was just a quick search and a lot of those threads did not manage to keep their temperatures down. So a certain amount of irritation seems to be understandable.

What folks just seem unwilling to understand is the following: all you own are some shiny frisbees annex coasters, a colourful box and a manual. That's it.

You are leasing the account nothing more, no different from leasing a car. You can't sell or give the car to someone else, it does not belong to you. You lack the legal authority to do so. End of story. No, ifs.... No, buts...

No different from the rules we have here. Obey them or else.
If, we say behave yourselves, we do mean behave yourselves.
Obey the request... or else..



Sorry... Pet peeve.. :grin:

[Rex Normal]

Account sharing affected me when I grouped with a level 70 rogue in Sethekk a while back. He was wearing level 60 pvp gear and some random BoE greens. No big deal I thought, Sethekk is easy anyway. It became a problem when we had to explain to him how to "sap" a target, what DPS meant, what mana is and why it's important to casters, what a caster is, etc.

It DOES affect other people.

[poopsmcgee]

/cheer *in my female BE voice cuz i know we have so many BE fans on this forum lol

[xDarkDrifterx]

Account sharing affected me when I grouped with a level 70 rogue in Sethekk a while back. He was wearing level 60 pvp gear and some random BoE greens. No big deal I thought, Sethekk is easy anyway. It became a problem when we had to explain to him how to "sap" a target, what DPS meant, what mana is and why it's important to casters, what a caster is, etc.

It DOES affect other people.

Like the 70 Rogue in SW Keep awaiting a BG that said "What's a DOT?"

:shocked: :banghead: :laughing:

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Tanitha

Quote:
Originally Posted by krayzie
So right! it doesnt piss me off in the slightest. I think it should be allowed coz its not like your getting new level 70 characters or anything... just changing 'ownership'.

Or, how about this. A gold seller buys an account, levels a character to 70 and stocks it with 10,000gp. A gold buyer drops $500 into their bank account and picks up the account, because it's just changing 'ownership'. A mule for delivering the gold, a perfect match for the gold selling / power leveling marriage.

ARRRGGHHH!!! You actually make me pissed off! you are the lowest of the low! I even said that in my original post yet you choose to misrepresent me by only posting half of what i said! i cant believe you would actually do that... actually shocked

Account sharing affected me when I grouped with a level 70 rogue in Sethekk a while back. He was wearing level 60 pvp gear and some random BoE greens. No big deal I thought, Sethekk is easy anyway. It became a problem when we had to explain to him how to "sap" a target, what DPS meant, what mana is and why it's important to casters, what a caster is, etc.

It DOES affect other people.

Hold up here! if you go into a PUG where you dont know the members of the group you can't be surprised if some of them don't add up to your skill level and knowledge of the game. In my opinion this isn't an issue. PUGs are like that, granted that this is an extreme case but it stays the same. If you want to be assured of a competent group for an instance do not go for a PUG, end of story.

I still say that it doesn't affect you... they don't impact your game

[LunarSolaris]

Thank you xDarkDrifterx for posting that portion.

Still though... even after reading that, I'm not seeing how one could interpret that it's going against the ToS or EULA for one person to give another their account. It mentions that they are against sharing of accounts and passwords, but honestly, I'm not sure how that can be feasibly (or perhaps even legally) enforce that. But still...

[Tanitha]

ARRRGGHHH!!! You actually make me pissed off! you are the lowest of the low! I even said that in my original post yet you choose to misrepresent me by only posting half of what i said! i cant believe you would actually do that... actually shocked

No darling your post had:

"The one thing i guess bliz want to stop is ppl trading money on the outside for high level characters."

tacked onto it.

There's a difference between trading real world money for high level characters and trading real world money for in-game GOLD using a high level character as a vehicle for that transfer. I was actually agreeing with what you had said and expanding on it.

But thank you for the insult.

Edit:
Should I expect an apology?

[xDarkDrifterx]

Thank you xDarkDrifterx for posting that portion.

Still though... even after reading that, I'm not seeing how one could interpret that it's going against the ToS or EULA for one person to give another their account. It mentions that they are against sharing of accounts and passwords, but honestly, I'm not sure how that can be feasibly (or perhaps even legally) enforce that. But still...

NP

This topic has been gone over a lot in various other threads with the topic being something close to "Virtual Intelectual Property Rights" - this is a battle being fought the world over, and not just pertaining to games.

The Gaming arguement being that it's your's, you pay for it, level it, etc etc (sometimes even for years and years). . . but in the TOS / EULA you're agreeing (by clicking "I agree") that Blizzard still own's it - so it's theres to do what they want with it . . .you're more like renting the pixels for X amount a time until you are done with them (then it's theres again).

[poopsmcgee]

some needs to finally kill this horse once and for all so i can skin it. this type of thread seems to pop up every week with everyone saying the same thing lol. yah yah it doesn't effect people yah yah against tos yah yah.

you do not have the right to buy/sell/trade blizzard property with anyone but blizzard period

[Kodonn]

Hold up here! if you go into a PUG where you dont know the members of the group you can't be surprised if some of them don't add up to your skill level and knowledge of the game. In my opinion this isn't an issue. PUGs are like that, granted that this is an extreme case but it stays the same.



Why is it that when you hit people over the head with the evidence they claim doesn't exist, they still refuse to acknowledge it ? :ponder:

One of the reasons you "shouldn't be surprised if some PUG group members don't add up to your skill level" IS becuase so many people have just rolled over and accepted that account buying is ok.

If you want to be assured of a competent group for an instance do not go for a PUG, end of story.

I still say that it doesn't affect you... they don't impact your game

Or...if you want to be assured of a competent PUG group, STOP supporting / endorsing character / account buying.

The mere fact that he SHOULDN'T trust a PUG anymore means IT IS affecting him.

[krayzie]

Or...if you want to be assured of a competent PUG group, STOP supporting / endorsing character / account buying.

Bad PUG's are not the result of character sharing. Simply the result of youth/unintelligence/selfish goals/lack of teamwork or all at once. Thats a good reason why wow has guilds. You can't filter whose in your PUG since you dont know anyone most of the time (must be over 18, a degree in battlestrategy, been playing since release etc etc) but you can limit whose in your guild to ppl that you can trust.

One of the reasons you "shouldn't be surprised if some PUG group members don't add up to your skill level" IS becuase so many people have just rolled over and accepted that account buying is ok.

hmm... tbh i can only recall once where account sharing caused me any issues. Deadmines on an alt, rogue in our group was been played by account owners little brother (which he said was the reason when big bro got back). He got lippy and didnt listen to my commands (simple logic like don't aggro the boss, wait till we have mana) so i kicked him and we found someone else. problem solved. thats the only time ive noticed it in WOW. Hardly the reason for all bad pugs.. More often that not bad pugs were due to the reasons i listed above... and then, the joy of finding a good pug :D

[Tanitha]

Point of fact is krayzie, you're arguing for this and it is against the Blizzard terms of service. A terms of service you agreed to when you created your account and on every subsequent patch day.

I think it should be allowed coz its not like your getting new level 70 characters or anything

So are you currently advocating that people should be doing things against the Terms of Service agreement they signed with Blizzard?

[odinsnephew]

Bad PUG's are not the result of character sharing. Simply the result of youth/unintelligence/selfish goals/lack of teamwork or all at once. Thats a good reason why wow has guilds. You can't filter whose in your PUG since you dont know anyone most of the time (must be over 18, a degree in battlestrategy, been playing since release etc etc) but you can limit whose in your guild to ppl that you can trust.

Add "new players" *sharp intake of breath* and you might be onto something.

New players? whats that all about? where do I come into this? How new am I?

ARRRGGHHH!!! You actually make me pissed off! you are the lowest of the low! I even said that in my original post yet you choose to misrepresent me by only posting half of what i said! i cant believe you would actually do that... actually shocked

Edit:
Should I expect an apology?

Yes I think so :)

But as the all seeing mods are here & already told us that we only actually own the box we bought, then im willing to let it lie :)

<edit> but I really dont like that comment Krayzie.

[krayzie]

Point of fact is krayzie, you're arguing for this and it is against the Blizzard terms of service. A terms of service you agreed to when you created your account and on every subsequent patch day.

Yeah I am. Bliz have made a program with a ton of rules, regulations etc which is fine, as you need em to keep order. Im simply challenging one of the rules and saying why should it be so? whats wrong with that? ppl seem to be allowed to rip out the "aw bliz you've nerfed xxx class again! change something plz in next patch kthxbie" while i know that you don't accept tos for class changes but the point of fact is that WOW is definately a dynamic program (always changing) it even says it on the box ("note: gaming experience may change") so challenging rules in my books is fine.

So are you currently advocating that people should be doing things against the Terms of Service agreement they signed with Blizzard?

No, im not. I said I think it should be allowed. I never said "do it". then even proceeded to say in the next sentance that it mite encourage ppl paying for characters outside of wow (which obviously would be bad)

What happened next was ppl posted claiming that character sharing was vastly affecting their wow experience, i said bs and gave my opinion.

I still think character sharing in its current form doesn't affect your gameplay experience enough to warrent a response and I think that blizz ban character sharing because ppl could make a $ profit from it, not because it affects other users gaming experience.

Thoughts?



oop thought id just chuck in an edit here... man OP must be thinking "what have i started?"

[Tanitha]

I think that blizz ban character sharing because ppl could make a $ profit from it, not because it affects other users gaming experience.

That I agree with, as I indicated earlier with my expansion upon your earlier post. But I figure we'll have to disagree on the whole "It should be allowed" part of it. Specifically for the reason you've just highlighted.

[Zendarin]

IMHO I do believe Krayzie has a valid point. Now - let it be understood up front - I am very much against power lvling, gold buying, etc.

When it comes to letting a friend take over your account, however, I have to share a personal experience to demonstrate why I believe it should be allowed under certain circumstances.

A couple of years ago when I was still an avid player of EQ I had a regular group of 5 other players that I met with and adventured with on a regular basis. We were all good friends in r/l and performed well together in a team - we usually took on instances on their hardest setting without a problem.

Ond day one of our group decided to leave EQ - he happened to be our group healer. None of us wanted to try and find some other healer to replace our friend so the healer gave his account to my friend Todd - who had been providing dps for the group - and Todd took over playing the healer for our runs. He also did an outstanding job of it.

Todd continued to play his main outside of our group doing guild runs and stuff but always played our friends healer for our instances. He was quite good at playing a healer, had one of his own that was just the wrong level for our group.

If EQ did not allow transferring accounts none of this would have been possible.

I guess my point is that there are times when account transfers are a good thing and perhaps the baby is being thrown out with the bathwater?

Now - as long as it IS against ToU - I would never condone account sharing. Still, I think there is merit in questioning this rule and perhaps seeking a revision which would still make buying an account/character illegal but allow for account transfers with Bliz approval.

[kcma]

i'm very sure i agree to something about not sharing my pin ## and my ATM card, not even with my spouse... and no i didn't follow those rule/advice... but i am ultimately responsible for what happens to my account right?

this all remind me of that episode of Seinfeld where george refuse to share his pin wiht his girlfriend :p

and in the end, it's not the matter of against EULA or not neither is it a matter of bannable offense or not... if you're going to share it, share it... do it at your own risk... i'll share my _____ with those i trust, and if i break some rules doing it so be it... has anyone i trusted with _____ get me in trouble? no.

[Xlorep DarkHelm]

My friend and guildie is quiting WoW and is giving me his account. No I didnt buy it I already have a lvl 70 hunter. I want to move his toons from his account to mine. I looked on the website and couldnt find anything about moving toons between accounts. I know blizz can do it. Can some one tell me how to do it or show me on the europe site where it says about moving.

The account names on both accounts needs to be the same. And, you can't change the names on the accounts. so, unless you had planned ahead for this and both accounts are in the same name, it won't work.

[Kodonn]

Bliz have made a program with a ton of rules, regulations etc which is fine, as you need em to keep order. Im simply challenging one of the rules and saying why should it be so? whats wrong with that?

What happened next was ppl posted claiming that character sharing was vastly affecting their wow experience, i said bs and gave my opinion.

I still think character sharing in its current form doesn't affect your gameplay experience enough to warrent a response and I think that blizz ban character sharing because ppl could make a $ profit from it, not because it affects other users gaming experience.

Thoughts?

Fair enough. :thumbsup: No problem with challenging a rule if you think it doesn't belong, as long as you're willing to accept some reasons why. I don't think anyone claimed it "vastly" affected their gameplay, only that it did or could in some circumstances. You can't discount those circumstances just because they are minimal. Besides, when you're (as in each of us) the one immediately affected and it ruins your evening, it usually SEEMS like it has a bigger impact than it really does. And it may not be the main reasons not to trust PUGs (I'll agree with you there) but it is one more reason. Why not elliminate it ? Then there would be one less.

However, I think you already nailed the main reason Blizzard deemed it a no-no from the beginning. Some rules are made simply to prevent things from getting out of hand. Rather than saying "a little bit is ok, we'll try to judge when it becomes too much", they just banned it outright. Can you imagine what the game would turn into if people just played to level up characters so they could E-bay them ? You think PUGs are bad now. I don't think that is the type of experience or environment the developers had in mind. It's bad enough already with the gold farmers.

And really, it IS Blizzards game. Some people would have you believe they are evil because they don't want other people profitting off of WoW. Well, I don't blame them. They spent the money to develop it and put in all the hardware. It's their property. It's no different than any other type of business. The movie theaters don't allow you to come in on openning night and tape the movie so you can burn a bunch of DvDs and bootleg it on the street. Same with music. Same with any other merchandise.


..... None of us wanted to try and find some other healer to replace our friend so the healer gave his account to my friend Todd - who had been providing dps for the group - and Todd took over playing the healer for our runs. He also did an outstanding job of it.

Todd continued to play his main outside of our group doing guild runs and stuff but always played our friends healer for our instances. He was quite good at playing a healer, had one of his own that was just the wrong level for our group.

If EQ did not allow transferring accounts none of this would have been possible....

Good point and I'm glad it worked out for all of you. But consider...What if you had been forced to find a new healer for your group ? And what if that player turned out to be really good and all of you accepted him/her into your group of friends ? Your friend Todd could have still played his dps AND your new friend would also have been able to play with you. Everyone would have benefitted all around. But, by transferring the account, not only did you possibly miss out on making a new friend, you also possibly denied someone else the oppurtunity to become your friend. :hanky:

I think Blizzard purposely designed WoW to encourage players to go out and meet new people they could learn to rely on and have fun with. That's what the second "M" stands for in MMORPG (multi-player). For some people it's easy to go out and make new friends. For others it's a bit more difficult. By creating a game world where you sometimes HAVE to go out and find someone to replace your friend who quits playing, they are creating oppurtunities for both types of personalities.

[odinsnephew]

The account names on both accounts needs to be the same. And, you can't change the names on the accounts. so, unless you had planned ahead for this and both accounts are in the same name, it won't work.

yes correct. but you could have a legitimate agreement with another person albeit illegal in the eyes of the CC company & the company you are dealing with ie; blizzard, to take over your details.

extremely dodgy in my eyes, but that is the reason we have hackers IMO.

[bmunschki]

use your friends account until it expires, no use wasting spent money if he quit yesterday. blizz may be against it but its common sense to not waste money!

[moopy]

Not being able to transfer toons between accounts is frankly one of the smartest decisions blizzard ever took. It cuts down on the number of times that you see the following scenario:

Raidleader: Ok, NewlyRecruitedHunterWithAmazingEpicGear, we want you to kite and chain trap the prot warrior until the star is down.

NewlyRecruitedHunterWithAmazingEpicGear: kite wtf iz kite lol!!!!

[PlayThemAll]

PlayThemAll



Bet you thought I wouldn't notice. :grin:

[Qwertius]

Bad PUG's are not the result of character sharing. Simply the result of youth/unintelligence/selfish goals/lack of teamwork or all at once. Thats a good reason why wow has guilds. You can't filter whose in your PUG since you dont know anyone most of the time (must be over 18, a degree in battlestrategy, been playing since release etc etc) but you can limit whose in your guild to ppl that you can trust.


I totally agree with krazie here. I really hate PUG's and avoid them at all costs. My bad experience comes from the childish teenagers found in PuGs and not from people buying accounts. youth/unintelligence/selfish goals/lack of teamwork Couldn't say it better.

One way to avoid PuGs is to make sure you can fill each roll within your own friends circle. A way to do that is to share accounts. I know it is illigal, but it is done between groups of GOOD FRIENDS. 8 friends have accounts. 5 are online: Priest Mage Warlock Hunter and another Mage. It is very nice if one of these can log in with the account of friend number 6 (who has a lvl 70 warrior and is playing Tennis on tuesday evenings) so that these 5 friends can enjoy a good evening of fun, with a Tank they know and trust.

Or 25 man at Magtheridon and the raid is being canceled because ONE person didn't show up because he had to work late ? If it's a key person that can really ruin the day for the rest of the guild.. One of his close buddies can play his character and the raid is saved.

PVPing on each others characters. (For example a priest PVPs on his buddies Mage, just for fun to experience the roll of nuker for a change, after all his hard healing work, and he has no time to lvl a lvl 70 mage himself)

Or using each other accounts fro Jewelcrafting or Enchanting..

In high end raiding guilds this is done all the time.

AND NOBODY IS EVER GETTING ANY DISADVANTAGE because of this, it doesn't harm anybody.

Yet it's completely illegal

[Baal]

What does it matter to you? why should it change your gaming experience? its not like you can tell or anything 'in game' if someone has a shared account. in short, it makes no difference to you, theres no sudden influx of 70's in the game or anything, its just a change of driver... GET OVER IT.

I already explained why it matters to me - but you won't listen.

It's great that you have your opinion, but don't tell me to get over mine... Because mine is completely valid... So why don't you just get over that and move on yourself?

[Naedea]

All the goody goody ToS lawyers crack me up.

Every week.

[Baal]

All the goody goody ToS lawyers crack me up.

Every week.

*shrugs*

I guess there are those who tend to follow the rules, and those who don't. I pretty much follow rules. I don't cheat in game. I don't download pirated software of any kind. I don't do any of those sorts of things...

[poopsmcgee]

but do you read the ToS for every piece of software you buy/use?

[fzyx]

*shrugs*

I guess there are those who tend to follow the rules, and those who don't. I pretty much follow rules. I don't cheat in game. I don't download pirated software of any kind. I don't do any of those sorts of things...

Have you ever used napster or other music sharing software?

[Kugan]

I've spent over 48 hours to get my character to level 38... And some other guy just has someone give him the account and has to spend no time doing anything to get the character.

Maybe not a big deal to you. But it is to many.

Nope, the question is: Why do you continue playing if you obviously don’t enjoy it. Levelling is supposed to be fun (on your first character at least, I’m not enjoying it on my current character, but only because I’ve seen the content a lot of times), not work. If you find this work, I can promise you that level 70 will be much worse…

[Baal]

Nope, the question is: Why do you continue playing if you obviously don’t enjoy it. Levelling is supposed to be fun (on your first character at least, I’m not enjoying it on my current character, but only because I’ve seen the content a lot of times), not work. If you find this work, I can promise you that level 70 will be much worse…

Where did I say I didn't enjoy it? Please don't put words in my mouth. What I said is that I've put the time into my character and EARNED my level. This guy who is just given an account hasn't earned it at all.

Have you ever used napster or other music sharing software?

Have I used file sharing applications, yes. Have I downloaded copyright material illegally/without the proper permissions. No. I thought I already said that.

[LunarSolaris]

NP

This topic has been gone over a lot in various other threads with the topic being something close to "Virtual Intelectual Property Rights" - this is a battle being fought the world over, and not just pertaining to games.

The Gaming arguement being that it's your's, you pay for it, level it, etc etc (sometimes even for years and years). . . but in the TOS / EULA you're agreeing (by clicking "I agree") that Blizzard still own's it - so it's theres to do what they want with it . . .you're more like renting the pixels for X amount a time until you are done with them (then it's theres again).


I definitely understand this concept. I realize that the account is a rented one... and the characters I've developed do not technically "belong" to me (intellectual property rights, etc. etc.)... and perhaps that's the answer to the question I'm seeking.

I imagine though, that it wouldn't be very hard for a person to give a friend their account. That friend then places the account under their credit card, thus they have "control" of both accounts (based on Blizzards standard), and once this is established, they then can transfer the toons (I guess).

I've never done it so I honestly don't know. I know my wife and I had talked about this before (me transferring one or two of her toons that she doesn't play anymore to my account). I had considered it before, but wasn't sure how to implement it. As of now, my wife and I both have seperate accounts (obviously so that we can play together at the same time).

[Baal]

I imagine though, that it wouldn't be very hard for a person to give a friend their account. That friend then places the account under their credit card, thus they have "control" of both accounts (based on Blizzards standard), and once this is established, they then can transfer the toons (I guess).

I've never done it so I honestly don't know. I know my wife and I had talked about this before (me transferring one or two of her toons that she doesn't play anymore to my account). I had considered it before, but wasn't sure how to implement it. As of now, my wife and I both have seperate accounts (obviously so that we can play together at the same time).

You have to have the same name on the account, not the credit card. And you can't change the name on the account without some sort of proof of a legal name change.

[Kugan]

Where did I say I didn't enjoy it? Please don't put words in my mouth. What I said is that I've put the time into my character and EARNED my level. This guy who is just given an account hasn't earned it at all.

You’re right, I made an assumption.

Usually when I’m having fun, I don’t really feel the need to validate that with something else. Let me use an example:

Person 1 decides to build a model (is that the right word?) boat.
Person 1 having a lot of fun figuring out how to put it together, learning from his mistakes, and in the end, is very proud if his achievement.

Person 2 decides to build a model boat.
Person 2 hates every moment of it, but his end goal is to have a model boat, so he sticks through with it. In the end, he has a model boat, and is very proud of his achievements.

Person 3 decides to buy a model boat.
Person 3 doesn’t really have any sense of achievement in building the boat, and didn’t have any fun in getting it. All person 3 has is a model boat that doesn’t mean anything to him.

Who do you think will be upset that Person 3 also has a model boat (Hint: It’s not Person 1)

[Baal]

You’re right, I made an assumption.

Usually when I’m having fun, I don’t really feel the need to validate that with something else. Let me use an example:

Person 1 decides to build a model (is that the right word?) boat.
Person 1 having a lot of fun figuring out how to put it together, learning from his mistakes, and in the end, is very proud if his achievement.

Person 2 decides to build a model boat.
Person 2 hates every moment of it, but his end goal is to have a model boat, so he sticks through with it. In the end, he has a model boat, and is very proud of his achievements.

Person 3 decides to buy a model boat.
Person 3 doesn’t really have any sense of achievement in building the boat, and didn’t have any fun in getting it. All person 3 has is a model boat that doesn’t mean anything to him.

Who do you think will be upset that Person 3 also has a model boat (Hint: It’s not Person 1)

That comparison doesn't fit at all.

Buying a model boat isn't in anyway against a ToS... If you want a model boat, then go buy one or build one depending on what you want to do. That's a personal choice...

The only way you could compare it is if they were racing these boats (assuming functional model), and it was against the rules of the race to buy the boat. Then the 3rd person cheated, while the other two worked on their boat, and earned the right to race them...

That comparison would fit much better - and I would guess that #1 and #2 would both be upset about the 3rd person cheating at the race.

[Kodonn]

You’re right, I made an assumption.

Usually when I’m having fun, I don’t really feel the need to validate that with something else. Let me use an example:

Person 1 decides to build a model (is that the right word?) boat.
Person 1 having a lot of fun figuring out how to put it together, learning from his mistakes, and in the end, is very proud if his achievement.

Person 2 decides to build a model boat.
Person 2 hates every moment of it, but his end goal is to have a model boat, so he sticks through with it. In the end, he has a model boat, and is very proud of his achievements.

Person 3 decides to buy a model boat.
Person 3 doesn’t really have any sense of achievement in building the boat, and didn’t have any fun in getting it. All person 3 has is a model boat that doesn’t mean anything to him.

Who do you think will be upset that Person 3 also has a model boat (Hint: It’s not Person 1)

Good...but you forgot to finish your analogy. Mind if I make it more appropriate to the topic at hand ? :ponder:

Person 1, person 2 and person 3 all happen to enter their model boats in a "Model Boat Building and Sailing Competition" at the local park, along with 247 other contestants. The judging is difficult, but at the end, the judges announce they have a 3-way tie for first place. Just so happens that persons 1, 2 and 3 all tie for the first place prize. It was cash, so it has to be split 3-ways.

Now how do you think persons 1 and 2 feel about person 3, with both of them knowing full well how he obtained his boat ?

And before you retort with "but there is no prizes to be split in WoW", think for a minute about people competing for places in raid groups and trying to get their epic gear.

EDIT: aaaack...Baal beat me to it. :shocked: Must learn to type faster.

[dgrampa]

Even those analogies are not correct. You don't get prize money for leveling a toon to 70. You don't 'win' anything and this is NOT a competition.

Anyone who says someone else getting an account from a friend affects their own gaming experience is the equivalent of a crybaby crying 'because it's not fair! If he gets one we all should.' You can come up with all sorts of BS excuses like 'noobs in PUGs' but none of them are true. People share accounts constantly and you don't even know it.

The only issue is that Blizzard has deemed it is against the ToU/EULA and that is all that matters. Anyone claiming anything else is IMO an emo b****. The only reason Blizzard has chosen to not allow the practice is to cover their own butts.

[Killmenow]

Of course we all know the real reason is money.

Blizzard wants every player to purchase the game and pay their own monthly payments. Giving away the game to another person deprives them of the profit they would make on the initial cost of the game.

Sure, the new "owner" is still paying the $15 monthly charge, but its probably less likely now that the original owner will get back into the game since they gave away their characters.

They want to keep that hook in players who quit playing and paying, on the good chance that they will come back to it again.

I don't blame them one bit.

[dgrampa]

I don't think even that is the reason. It has more to do with what Tanitha originally said in this thread. If it were legal, Blizzard would have to evaluate 1000s of transfer requests a day to make sure there is no 'funny business' going on, ie: actual cash trading hands for gold/items/characters. That is unrealistic and opens the door for many scammers. Much easier to just say it is all against the rules.

If you were to ask any Blizzard employee, I am sure they would say that they wouldn't have a problem with the OPs situation. But because it is against the ToU they still would not allow it.

[Cow Vs The World]

How, pray tell, is a guy who just bought or traded a 70 character going to get into a top-level raiding guild? All the epics in the world won't give you the experience and free time required to be in one of those guilds. Nobody buying or trading characters is stealing your "prize". Nevermind when all the ToS violators somehow steal all the coveted raiding guild spots, all the whiners can make their own raiding guild and do it too. It's not like only one guild can raid at a time.

And frankly, with the ridiculous hard-on some of you have for following the ToS, you'd never survive in any decent guild because account sharing is extremely common and nobody would want to listen to endless tirades about how everyone should follow every rule no matter how stupid they may be or how obvious the intention of the rule is. Most people figure out that Blizzard mostly wants to make more money and prevent things like pairs of people on opposite sides of the earth sharing an account to play while the other one sleeps, companies making a business of renting/selling/leasing accounts, and things like that. They didn't do it to prevent what 99% of account sharing is: logging onto a buddy's account to use a tradeskill, having a guild bank that everyone can access, or test driving a race/class before you spend a week of your life leveling an alt that you may not enjoy playing.

And to stick to this silly analogy, it would be more like if there were a for-fun boat sailing event (not really a race because a race has an end) with no winner or prize (because I'm sorry, you can't buy your way into any of those "prizes" in WoW, not to mention being able to raid doesn't prevent someone else from doing so) and the rules said you had to build and sail your own boat using the sponsor's parts. Two guys build and sail their own boat, another guy who has never sailed boats before buys a boat and tries to sail it. For one, the guy who bought his boat doesn't have much of a chance at first because he doesn't know how to sail it even though he has a great boat. Two, nobody loses anything since there was nothing to win, but one of the guys who built his own is miserable because he can't enjoy his boat because he so obsessed about what other people are doing.

[Valas Azuviir]

Dgrampa and Tanitha have hit the bullseye. This whole idea is far too open to exploitation with regards to "friends". Now spouses or parents/kids, I can see a way where it could be set up that they could transfer toons from their own accounts to another one.

Simply a case of getting a notary to sign off that the passports, wedding license, birth records etc etc show that there is indeed a direct familial (first degree: married, parents/kids, whereas siblings would count as second degree) link between the two parties and then have said affidavits sent to Blizzard or Blizzard EU, where it will be processed and subsequent actions taken. This would not up the workload for their staff to such a degree that a mass hiring of support staff would be necessary, and that is something which is bad for the bottom line and thus unattractive for the suits, who in the end have to give the nod for such a decision.

Course, that type of stuff with cost the customer a pretty penny as well. But if you deem it necessary, eh...

For the rest, the whole we should change Blizzard's mind on this, because they also change their minds on gameplay decisions. Vast oversimplification of the issue at hand. Gameplay alterations fall within the scope of the game designers, they have little to no legal implications.

Whereas with EULA/ToS creation, that's the legal department's cup of tea. They will find an interpretation that is to the full advantage of the company and if it crushes some consumers along the way, not their problem. Their job isn't to make people happy, or to give a fun game. It's to protect the company from any legal liabilities.

Or in short two very very different ball games.

And even the compromise "solution" that I outlined could mean substantial legal problems, depending upon the nations in question and how exactly their laws specify matters.

So in the end it boils down to a cost/benefit equation. And thus far the costs outweigh the benefits. Then again, the official forums, considering its populace, are hardly a place to suggest such an idea at all. You'd probably be better off trying to pitch such an idea at say Blizzcon or something like that, and even then be humble and appreciative about the fact that they're even willing to listen to the idea. Being fully cognizant that it might not even be accepted is also a wise move.

As for the rest.. I do believe everything has been said and done already..

So....


*Casts binding spell*
*Clank*