Your guilds looting system?

[YamahaGuy]

What kind of looting system does your guild use?

I am curious.

In my previous guild, we had DKP. And what happened is, 3-4 people were at Kara the most, which drove them sky high and dominated any gear they could use. This caused a lot of drama and fighting because only a few key people had full epics / any T4, and most others never got anything at all. Attendance started dropping because people knew they woudlnt get something anyhow (sad, isnt it.)

I've seen /roll in some guilds. But I also hear constant moaning from people in /roll guilds, about how a first timer won something like, Shard of the Virtuous over someone who has gone with the guild for months. Or how someone with many epics and T4 won the roll once again, and they've lost every time.

Currently, I've been using Officer Loot (conditionally), which has worked well. We vote / voice in officer chat about items that drop, and who needs them. General rule of thumb, I'd give someone a one peice before I gave someone a 2 peice bonus, and same for 2 peice vs 3 peice. (Taking turns with T4.) If its a staff or weapon someone has been consistantly tring to get and attending for, Im more likely to send it their way over the new guy who is in the raid for his first time. Sometimes, if no conditions like that exist, I do also use /roll, or say 'one person this, one person that'.

Of couse, Im subject to what my officers say as well.

But that opens the door for massive QQ which I am starting to see some of, when other people don't like or openly contest the decision we made. There is jealousy, bitterness, and whispers about it floating around. I'd hate to go with something DKP for KARA instead of just SHARING and being practical about guild needs. Picture the miserable shadow priests who get overlooked because they don't have to tank or heal through a boss like, gruul.

Practicality. And seriously, some of these people act like they never get a damn thing, while their sugar coated in epics, crafted items, mindblades off prince, kara rings, bracers, boots, gloves blah blah blah

Its a joke.

But the last thing I want to do is go through dramatic ordeal every time something dies and drops items. Seriously =/

[rgirty]

We run a need/greed and all had been well until last night. Someone took t4 over two others. The person who took it already had a kara epic in that slot (hand) while the other two people sorely needed the upgrade.

We are going to a loot council, where we ML and you link your item in that slot. The council votes unless the item is for one on the council then they abstain.

[YamahaGuy]

We run a need/greed and all had been well until last night. Someone took t4 over two others. The person who took it already had a kara epic in that slot (hand) while the other two people sorely needed the upgrade.

We are going to a loot council, where we ML and you link your item in that slot. The council votes unless the item is for one on the council then they abstain.


Okay, so you can relate to both

The need/greed/roll problem

And council/vote a lot like officer loot, which we use.

Well same here, all has been well until last night, over a pair of T4 shoulders. Every class on that badge who WASNT the recipient is butthurt and being babies.

//

Oh yes and rgirty - Last I checked in I was reading your moroes post, now I see curator. Sounds like you are doing well. =)

[Shellar]

We usually manage to reach a consensus who needs the item the most. Disputes get solved by /rolling. That's the advantage of having a small guild of tight-knit friends - loot drama is almost nonexistant.

[moopy]

We use zero sum DKP, and a neat GPLed addon called "bidder" which pops up the loot on your screen, shows your DKP and the item cost etc, and works out the DKP awarded on each kill. The one with the most DKP wins the item, but it does balance itself out. People don't pounce bid, and are really relaxed.

I guess the unusual thing about my little guild is the attitude to loot. The only real arguments that I have seen over loot is when people get stuck in the "you need it more, you should have it", "rubbish, you've wanted it for ages" loop. It's quite possible for a boss to despawn while this is happening. Hell, our MT has to be bullied to take items in heroics too, because he hates depriving people of a shard, even when it's an item he clearly has a use for. This is very strange and pleasant, and makes loot a non-issue. Everyone knows they will get the good stuff at some point, no-one pulls rank. People seem genuinely happy to see their cohorts get shiny new bits, which is lovely.

Works for me. I never feel hard done to, and because no-one is tense about loot, no-one argues over it. It's only EPIXX, after all, means to an end. What do I care if the prince doesn't drop me a shiny this week? There's always next week- just prefer it when *someone* can use the item rather than sharding it :)

[YamahaGuy]

Part of the problem is people carry over BS from their old guild

Say, they saw 99999 pairs of T4 shoulders for their class and they never got one, and they are bitter about it.

They see it drop again one time in the new guild and didnt get it, and its automatically deamed "the same mistreatment I went through last guild"

Apply the same to mindblades staffs gloves whatever else you like.

Which is hella unfair and difficult on me.

[rgirty]

Okay, so you can relate to both

The need/greed/roll problem

And council/vote a lot like officer loot, which we use.

Well same here, all has been well until last night, over a pair of T4 shoulders. Every class on that badge who WASNT the recipient is butthurt and being babies.

//

Oh yes and rgirty - Last I checked in I was reading your moroes post, now I see curator. Sounds like you are doing well. =)

Thanks! We are going to do the shade tonight, i don't think we'll have any problems with him. We got him to 35% on our first attempt last week, we are better geared now and I don't plan on dying quickly this time.

As far as loot goes, people always get upset over it but if there is a council then at least it is a vote and not random luck like a rollling system.

[Telmar]

The only real arguments that I have seen over loot is when people get stuck in the "you need it more, you should have it", "rubbish, you've wanted it for ages" loop.

We have this same issue in Kara :)

We use a roll system, and encourage people to pass for the person who needs it most. If people get arsey, and start crying about how they didnt get XX this week, I'll generally remind them that it will probably drop next week, and if they want to still be in the guild by that point, they'll shut up about it, and be grateful for the loots they do win.

This has actually encouraged a guild atmosphere where we're pretty laid back about loot, and most people are more than happy to pass for a bigger upgrade for someone else. Occasionally we have an instance where its XX's HUGE UPGRADE against YY's OMG I'VE BEEN COMING HERE FOR AGES, and we just get them to roll it out. If they lose, well UL, you'll gt it next time.

Tbh, if the players in your guild are creating drama about loot, its because you've let them. Just tell them 'this is the way its going to be, if you dont like it, there are plenty of other guilds that you could join instead'. Of course this only works if the players really want to be in your guild, if you're struggling with attendance, I dont recommend it :P

[Telmar]

Part of the problem is people carry over BS from their old guild

Say, they saw 99999 pairs of T4 shoulders for their class and they never got one, and they are bitter about it.

They see it drop again one time in the new guild and didnt get it, and its automatically deamed "the same mistreatment I went through last guild"

Apply the same to mindblades staffs gloves whatever else you like.

Which is hella unfair and difficult on me.

Tell them then tbh.

If people in my guild are causing me grief I make it clear to them that I manage the guild because I want us to succeed, not being I enjoy people being abusive. If they want to be abusive, and cause me hassle, then they can sod off, and find someone else to annoy. We dont want people like that in our guild.

[Dallana]

We used to use an officer council kind of decision but it was just horrendous to administer and would result in a lot of discussion everytime something dropped that more than one person wanted.

We switched to a DKP system and this has worked out a lot better - the whole point of DKP is that it rewards people who put the most time into instances and progression over and above those people who only raid occasionally. I'm well aware that this can lead to problems but IMO it lets people know where they stand a lot better than a loot council which in larger guilds gets very messy and leads to arguments.

[Scrub]

Our officers have a loot list that they go by which works out pretty nice but there's been a few people that kind of took advantage. If you win something in the raid then you get bumped to the bottom of the list.

I remember way back when we started doing onyxia, some folks would never put a bid in on any items in MC so they could get the helm drop off ony. Sure, some people benifited from others passing on upgrades that everyone could use.....but it got to be annoying at times. It was their choice so I was fine with that but it hurt them (gearing up) in the long run from passing on several nice peices just for one.

If a ring or weapon dropped that several different classes could use then the officers debated on it and had a few people roll on it. I lost every roll for an item in raids......I need roll hacks badly.....lol. We had an epic wand drop in ZG and the officers rewarded me with it :D I was told it was because I never won anything when it came to rolls and they didn't want me to feel left out. I was pretty stoked!

I think it's been totally fair and worked pretty well.

[RWGreen]

A loot wheel works for some guilds. The person on top gets the drop. He then goes to the bottom and everyone else moves up 1 spot.. If you don't raid for a couple weeks you lose your spot and go to the bottom. When we started Karazhan, the other warrior and I agreed to alternate plate drops.

[Bigairbrucey]

We roll need/greed/pass ...and have 0 issues because most of us are adults who care about team progression over individual needs

we often make fun of the DKP slaves in other guilds with all of their infighting and loot drama

[Justinledwards]

For us, Kara is a stepping stone, and everyone in the guild knows that. Goal is to get the two pieces of T4 for everyone in the 2 groups out of kara. Everything else that drops is viewed 'officially' as 'nice to have but not the reason for being there'.

I nominate who can roll on an item, they roll. If they've already had an epic that night, then they are expected to pass. It's nice to see that most folks in the group consider others and there is plenty of passing.

It's about setting up a bigger picture - does your guild want to get to black temple / hyjal? Then EVERYONE has to get geared up.

We'll run DKP for the 25 mans, but thats zero sum, similiar to the loot wheel - you get a piece, you go to the bottom.

[GamerManOneTwo]

I think that raiding loot has been considerably muddied, by what you can get by crafting and PvP. Basically Weapon, Shoulders, Head, Chest, Legs, Feet are all better off from crafted or PvP for casters. Add to that heroic and ordinary 5 man drops and I could easily see myself raiding Kara for a while to get the few items that it has that are better.

Our guild distributes loot on a needs basis, where the group agrees on who needs it and if there is more than 1 there is a roll off. At the end shards from DEs are distributed to those who didn't get anything.


I could imagine though if Kara actually had better gear, then it would be more likely to create dramas.

[ascendedavatar]

We have zero tolerance as our policy.

Basically, our policy is:
If you already have equipped something equal or better, the only people who get to roll on it are those who do NOT, thus the drop rewards go to those in greatest need.
If everyone is doing better with their gear than the item dropped, then it's rolled for.
If more than 1 person needs the upgrade, then those who need the upgrade roll.
Wanting it to DE, is NOT as need but a greed,
and we only do that if no one needs it.
No one needs it? Everyone can roll greed to DE it.
Anyone need it for their toon who is HERE AND HONESTLY NEEDS THE UPGRADE? Only they can roll for it (or it's given to the one who needs it if there is only one obviously).

Anyone ninja's anything, they are kicked out of the raid and the guild right there on the spot.

If it's an "honest misunderstanding" they might be able to petition the council to hear their case,
but 99% of the time their true colors have come out - ninja greed - and we boot them permanently.

Everyone knows this in advance, so they can't claim they didn't know.

[Aerath]

Master Looter in Karazhan.

DKP in 25man raids.

[Telmar]

So your policy is 'if you need it, then you roll' ?

Not so much a loot policy, as common sense :P That being said, I've seen alot worse :)

In Kara we're pretty relaxed with loot tbh. If its an upgrade, there's rarely more than one person who needs it, so it goes to them. If its not an upgrade for your raid role, but you'd like it for offspec, then you can take it provided no one needs for ther main role (hence us having resto shamans with 800 spell damage, and holy paladins with full Kara tanking gear :P)

In SSC and TK we use a (almost) zero-sum dkp system combined with a big dollop of common sense. If its a huge upgrade for one person, but a minimal upgrade for another, then the person who it isnt a big upgrade for is encouraged to pass. They obviously dont have too, afterall they earnt that DKP to spend as they wish. But as a general rule, people will pass for those who need it more.

We've had almost zero loot drama, with the one exception being a mage that got £"%$£" over the shoulders from void reaver being taken by someone else. He got told "if you dont like it, leave. We have no time for your drama". He shut up and stayed.

[SadaraK]

We roll need/greed/pass ...and have 0 issues because most of us are adults who care about team progression over individual needs

we often make fun of the DKP slaves in other guilds with all of their infighting and loot drama

In my experiance no matter how good the system or sensible the people there is always one or two people that cause the drama over loot at some point. It might not happen often, or hardly at all, but acting like it never does and laughing about people that it does happen to is rather like both fooling yourself and being mean to them.

As others have said, go for rolling in kara and dkp in 25 mans, we have used that from the start and its worked out fine. Had the odd occasion in kara where someone for instance has gotten a few drops that night and someone else got none who could have got 1 from that persons multiple. But its minor and even then usually settled in a whisper where both parties agreed that they will communicate more about what they need.

On top of the kara rolling system the officer have the unofficial capacity to 'question' the decision of some peoples choices to take loot. If its a stupidly wrong choice for example an officer will whisper the person who is rolling when we think they shouldnt and ask if they are really sure they want to take that item from the other people in the circumstances. Usually the person backs down, an officer asking if ur sure tends to make people think twice. In cases when they dont theres a small convo after about putting guild needs first, repeat offenders in this dont stay in the guild long enough to do it much more.

Our dkp system is zero dkp with all items being 1dkp and a wheel system where when you win the item your dkp is reduced to zero. This means no matter how much you attend once you have gotten an item you are back to the bottom, and encourages the newer people to get geared fast while older people get back up on the dkp quicker. It works well, but like every loot system ever cant cover everything, and mistakes do happen.

In the end all you have to do as an officer is be prepared to handle any situations that do arise, and hope both your members and looting systems are good enough to handle everything else.

[YamahaGuy]

Our dkp system is zero dkp with all items being 1dkp and a wheel system where when you win the item your dkp is reduced to zero. This means no matter how much you attend once you have gotten an item you are back to the bottom, and encourages the newer people to get geared fast while older people get back up on the dkp quicker. It works well, but like every loot system ever cant cover everything, and mistakes do happen.

Well, thats kinda like "taking turns" but leans towards your actives first. Might I ask the values you award and what you get points for in that system?

We had a system in our last guild as well where DKP was awarded for "new attempt" wipes. We had a problem where a lot of people wouldnt show for new bosses because they knew it was "repair bill inc" so thats how they countered it.

The mage upset over shoulders - I dunno why people would get upset over T4 T5 T6 items from 25 man content; dropping 2 badges per kill cut time it takes to gear a group in half. Seriously, if you didnt get it this time, you eventually will. Patience...

[SadaraK]

Well, thats kinda like "taking turns" but leans towards your actives first. Might I ask the values you award and what you get points for in that system?

We had a system in our last guild as well where DKP was awarded for "new attempt" wipes. We had a problem where a lot of people wouldnt show for new bosses because they knew it was "repair bill inc" so thats how they countered it.

The mage upset over shoulders - I dunno why people would get upset over T4 T5 T6 items from 25 man content; dropping 2 badges per kill cut time it takes to gear a group in half. Seriously, if you didnt get it this time, you eventually will. Patience...


Like i said in my post, all items are 1dkp. So Gruul happens to drop his teeth, his shield and 2 pants items, its 4dkp to everyone there when he drops them. Makes it really easy to admin at anyrate. If an item drops you want, you whisper the raid leader, person with the highest dkp wins, and the person that wins looses all their dkp and goes to zero.

We also have a small addon dkp for attendance, where if you attend a full raid you get 5dkp, if you leave early or join late you get 3dkp. This is added to any dkp from epics, and is also added to any run without epics, giving learning raids a small incentive to show.

Additonal to that we run a pretty informal backup system, where anyone who doesnt get in and can attend joins the backup channel and receives 50% dkp for the night, while also being available to attend straight away if we need them. We do this so even if it looks like a person wont get in it wont stop them signing, and to promote a health list of players as backup incase we loose some.

[Telmar]

The mage upset over shoulders - I dunno why people would get upset over T4 T5 T6 items from 25 man content; dropping 2 badges per kill cut time it takes to gear a group in half. Seriously, if you didnt get it this time, you eventually will. Patience...

It was his 2nd piece T2, and he wanted to get it so he could spec arcane, guarenteeing himself a spot in the shadowpriest group :P

[ecanem]

I am in a casual raiding guild, we have about 30 people who raid and about 15-20 who consistently raid and are still in Kara (our first attumen kill was in april and we most recently made it to illhoof) so with the number of raiders swapping out and us not pushing hardcore we use a DKP system where each raid has a certain amount of DKP awarded and if milestones are reached you get bonus DKP. This really does reward those who will be doing more raiding rather than someone like me who can only make it once in a while, and I don't mind. I don't expect to get loot over someone who has been in kara for weeks.

The bidding system on all loot is a single silent (whisper) bid to the raid leader.

[rgirty]

How do you guys determine who gets to go on those kara raids, with only so many dps spots available?

[ecanem]

How do you guys determine who gets to go on those kara raids, with only so many dps spots available?

Every week we post open signups on the forums and its pretty much first come first serve unless we need a specific class for a boss fight. On top of that we sometimes have a latenight group go back in where the first group left off if there are willing members, usually the latenight group are people like me and others who have work or other obligations until later in the night.

As I said, we are still casual, we do not require ANY raiding attendance at all and that is why I love the guild. I still get a few shots to go in but I wont be kicked out because of real life.

[Telmar]

How do you guys determine who gets to go on those kara raids, with only so many dps spots available?

We run two kara raids, and we do it on an offnight, so generally its a case of whoever is online comes. If we only have 10 dps online, then each group gets 5, and 3 healers, with two tanky types. If we have less than 10, we'll ask healers to respec (they love to get a chance to pewpew it up) or get some of our non-raider members to join for a few bosses if they fancy it (although we also run a Alt & Non-raider Kara group during the day at weekends - they cleared it all including nightbane last week in about 6 hrs of raiding i think). If we're short on warrior/feral tanks, we'll get pallys to respec, or resto druids, or get people to play their alt/friends warriors.

Generally, once you've had it on farm for a week or two, you can be much more flexible with your group compositions.

It pays to let people gear up for offspec with the stuff that would be sharding by the way. Its really handy when you're short on dps. We had one too many healers for vashj yesterday, and basically had no dps on standby, so asked one of our resto shaman to respec elemental, and put on his kara and heroic gear for it. He had about 800 spell damage self buffed and did about 75% of the damage of some of our other DPSers, while buffing his group with totems and the odd heal. You cant ask for more than that tbh.

[YamahaGuy]

How do you guys determine who gets to go on those kara raids, with only so many dps spots available?

Arg. Were in an ugly situation with that.

We have way more people than 1 group. And theres always unhappy sad upset faces who sit out.

Mainly because our healers cant promise any consistancy. And yeah it does make me angry sometimes.

Sure sure, things like "real life" and "school" and "kids" and "work" and "changing schedules" are important.

Guess 8 extras of our peeps will just sit around and stare at tiles on shattrath's floor.

[ecanem]

Arg. Were in an ugly situation with that.

We have way more people than 1 group. And theres always unhappy sad upset faces who sit out.

Mainly because our healers cant promise any consistancy. And yeah it does make me angry sometimes.

Sure sure, things like "real life" and "school" and "kids" and "work" and "changing schedules" are important.

Guess 8 extras of our peeps will just sit around and stare at tiles on shattrath's floor.

Thats an issue with us, we have eleventybillion hunters and rogues and whatnot but we are short on healers and tanks of all kinds. Our "main" healer has +1600 healing but below that I am not sure what we have.

[Volrith]

When an item drops and you want it, my raid leader makes you link the item you'll be replacing. If it's a minor upgrade for you but a huge upgrade for someone else, he will probably give it to them. If there's more than one person that he decides could use the upgrade, then we just /roll for it.

[YamahaGuy]

Yeah =( Healers man.

At one time we had 5 holy priests. You never see more than 1 online at a time. And they would have to leave in an hour or something.

So, we have healadins. They are amazing. Their on every day. They are spoiled with Shards/Lights justice/T4 whatever. Its not favoritism... they are ONLINE to acquire those things and our priests aren't.

....Can't put HoTs on the tank. =/

[ecanem]

Yeah =( Healers man.

At one time we had 5 holy priests. You never see more than 1 online at a time. And they would have to leave in an hour or something.

So, we have healadins. They are amazing. Their on every day. They are spoiled with Shards/Lights justice/T4 whatever. Its not favoritism... they are ONLINE to acquire those things and our priests aren't.

....Can't put HoTs on the tank. =/

Hey now, a well geared resto druids lifebloom will tick for 700hp add in rejuv and you can get over 1000 hp/tick the only problem is that you run into overhealing because others will heal at the same time as the HoT's

[amgyn]

On epics:
Need if you need
Pass otherwise -> disenchanted

Greens:
greed.

on tier pieces:
tank/main healers get priority drops
afterwards its a ffa.

[Leonavice]

Another situation slightly related.

The core raiders got what they want up to a certain point in Karazhan. A batch of guildies just finished attunement. Now, the veterans don't really want to run Attumen to Opera simply because there are nothing left for them. The new batch of guildies are clueless about Kara because there is no one to lead them.

Sad case.

[moopy]

Tell them then tbh.

If people in my guild are causing me grief I make it clear to them that I manage the guild because I want us to succeed, not being I enjoy people being abusive. If they want to be abusive, and cause me hassle, then they can sod off, and find someone else to annoy. We dont want people like that in our guild.

QFT, at the risk of sounding like a politician, establish right from the start a policy and culture of not being tense about loot, and it'll probably make people happier in the long term.

[SadaraK]

Another situation slightly related.

The core raiders got what they want up to a certain point in Karazhan. A batch of guildies just finished attunement. Now, the veterans don't really want to run Attumen to Opera simply because there are nothing left for them. The new batch of guildies are clueless about Kara because there is no one to lead them.

Sad case.

We have the same situation with people being geared from kara and nothing there for them atm. Except that peeps in our guild dont mind helping anyway even if theres nothing for them, if alot of your guild members refuse to go on runs where all they get to do is help the guild your guild might be in a bit of trouble.

I remember in the mc days i ran the place for about 10 months after i got the last thing i wanted from there just because i was the guild mt. Same with kara atm, got everything i need but im still going every week because a geared warrior tank is needed for nightbane usually at least.

[Telmar]

Its the opposite in our guild heh. We have people who need absolutely nothing from Kara, queueing up to come along.

Alot of this is due to us running it on a offnight (friday) as a way to let our hair down. We have people mucking about on vt, singing songs, telling jokes, generally just chatting and having a laugh. We quite often have our guild netradio station going, with one of the raid DJing on there (setting up a playlist while we sort loots and leaving it running :P) who normally takes requests and stuff.

Offspec looting is encouraged, and people are trusted to be cool about who gets what. We have stupid stuff like mages with Malchazeen now due to our poor loot luck and them wanting it as "offspec - melee mage loot. wtf? You've never heard of a melee mage? Man, they're awesome" :P

Generally, making it fun for the people who turn up will mean they continue to turn up long after they need anything :)

[YamahaGuy]

Honestly, I hate the second half of Kara.

Thats where I get the most spot QQ.

Fights like Curator--->Chess Event ----> Prince, I only need 1 melee. And don't need an offtank less were doing our optional bosses. The exception being true needs from those events.

Group comp + guild needs is more important than "going for fun".

And if people don't need something, I tend to not take them.

And it sucks having 3 rogues peck peck pecking at you in whispers for a spot on prince. No way. Not happening.

Nightbanes even worse. Not only is he prioritized spots by "need" we also take "A team" people to get the job done.

More QQ whispers.... =/

[Telmar]

Honestly, I hate the second half of Kara.

Thats where I get the most spot QQ.

Fights like Curator--->Chess Event ----> Prince, I only need 1 melee. And don't need an offtank less were doing our optional bosses. The exception being true needs from those events.

Group comp + guild needs is more important than "going for fun".

And if people don't need something, I tend to not take them.

And it sucks having 3 rogues peck peck pecking at you in whispers for a spot on prince. No way. Not happening.

Nightbanes even worse. Not only is he prioritized spots by "need" we also take "A team" people to get the job done.

More QQ whispers.... =/


Guild needs = having a motivated and non-QQing raid force. You'll get better results with a happy raid force, that want to be there, than you will with you and 9 of your best buddies in with 15 sat out.

Why would you avoid taking melee on prince/curator? Surely you've moved to the 'everyone in a pile' strat for that by now? If not, i suggest you do. Is a million times easier, we downed him in one evocation last week. Prince is a bit harder, but melee arent particularly bad there either. Just get them to stand on the tank if they're not getting enfeebled, that way their DPS can stay on all the time.

Seriously, if you have that many ppl, that you're having issues with one group, make a second group. Everyone will be much happier for it, even if it falls on its face, you can at least say you tried.

[rgirty]

Everyone in a pile?

Downed him in one evocation?

Do tell!

(means explain please)P

[ellcrys]

Not sure I have more to add that has not already been said, but we are a smaller guild and have cleared Kara with a solid team of the same 10 people (mostly because we were the only 10). Now that we have the place on farm, we have a few other late comers to lvl 70 and a couple of alts. There has not been a single open dispute over gear. If you need it roll. Granted our situation was that we all had very good blues heading in so there were very few "I need it more because it is a bigger upgrade" occassions.

We are now doing some member swapping for bosses to try to get people geared, but as a general rule, us original 10 put in all the time learning the encounters and paying the repair bills, so if it is an item we need, we have priority over the late comers.

The only problem I have is that I actually would like to sit out on some bosses, but we do not have the dps to replace me. I've offered but as the top dpser, I am promptly given the "No, you are staying."

It has been great. It will be interesting to see if we can keep the same guild dynamic in the future. It was decided last night to begin recruiting for a second Kara group. So we can tackle the 25-man's and continue to progress. I think the plan is to use a DKP system when we get to this point

Now that my rogue is Kara'd out. I need to get cracking on my shadow priest (lvl64) so he can get in Kara before we get too many new members to get in the way of my new gear whore. :)

By the way, if you happen to play on Dethecus (US) and are looking for a good guild, give Penetrode a look. I believe we are considering all classes right now.


By the way...one evocation for Curator = very impressive.
We smoked him during his second one last week and thought that was something. I guess we still have some work to do. Good times!

[DrOsmius]

QFT, at the risk of sounding like a politician, establish right from the start a policy and culture of not being tense about loot, and it'll probably make people happier in the long term.

That's us. Loot is *almost* never an issue, and we too err on the side of passing rather than taking.

We roll in Kara. EPGP in 25man.

Any type of points system is nice, because you always feel you are earning something, and it is always impartial. But we also are willing to pass to let someone complete a set bonus, or give something new.

I've been amazed for a long time at the maturity of my guildmates.

[YamahaGuy]

Guild needs = having a motivated and non-QQing raid force. You'll get better results with a happy raid force, that want to be there, than you will with you and 9 of your best buddies in with 15 sat out.

Why would you avoid taking melee on prince/curator? Surely you've moved to the 'everyone in a pile' strat for that by now? If not, i suggest you do. Is a million times easier, we downed him in one evocation last week. Prince is a bit harder, but melee arent particularly bad there either. Just get them to stand on the tank if they're not getting enfeebled, that way their DPS can stay on all the time.

Seriously, if you have that many ppl, that you're having issues with one group, make a second group. Everyone will be much happier for it, even if it falls on its face, you can at least say you tried.

Well, why take more than 1? So they can all go for the same dagger, thats on the "loot waiting list" anyhow? And they have their helms already. We have an arms warrior who ... might be able to use the axe... but he has lionheart and doesnt want that. We don't typically /roll T4, so thats not a concern either.

Strat, everyone just stands on the door. Seen some videos of people running around from novas and infernals.... thats crazy. Tank can just stand there in novas/fire and get heals anyhow. Elementals tick for bout 1k... sometimes two are ticking... but is ok. Therefore, the rogue usually... dies. They do try to run for nova tho <3 funny.

Curator - each additional melee besides the tank, and bolt soaker, chain bolts onto the tank. 2 more melees means 2-3 more chain bolts sacking the tank when they spawn. And again... only "melee" item would be... an AP ring to fight over, or prioritzed T4.

2 groups - yes yes you are right... but... we can't get the healer conistancy to do that yet =( one works one day... one works another... total block on the chance of 2 groups. Dedication lack =(

[SadaraK]

Guild needs = having a motivated and non-QQing raid force. You'll get better results with a happy raid force, that want to be there, than you will with you and 9 of your best buddies in with 15 sat out.

Why would you avoid taking melee on prince/curator? Surely you've moved to the 'everyone in a pile' strat for that by now? If not, i suggest you do. Is a million times easier, we downed him in one evocation last week. Prince is a bit harder, but melee arent particularly bad there either. Just get them to stand on the tank if they're not getting enfeebled, that way their DPS can stay on all the time.

Seriously, if you have that many ppl, that you're having issues with one group, make a second group. Everyone will be much happier for it, even if it falls on its face, you can at least say you tried.

From your other posts i am assuming that most if not all of your kara groups dps is composed of people with top end epic weapons and gear, sugesting a kill in 1 evocation to someone clearly still have probs in kara might be a little missleading to them :).

[Telmar]

Curator - each additional melee besides the tank, and bolt soaker, chain bolts onto the tank. 2 more melees means 2-3 more chain bolts sacking the tank when they spawn. And again... only "melee" item would be... an AP ring to fight over, or prioritzed T4.

Basically, you've missed a small detail :)

The arcane lightning, only bounces TWICE each cast :) If you have a melee on the bolt, and its bouncing to more than one other person, you're already doing this much healing.

[YamahaGuy]

Basically, you've missed a small detail :)

The arcane lightning, only bounces TWICE each cast :) If you have a melee on the bolt, and its bouncing to more than one other person, you're already doing this much healing.

Kay, but they are also not so great at downing the ads. Stacking the mages kills ads dead.

Unless your implying, everyone stand with the tank and straight up zerg curator, ignoring the ads

But then... the ads will just own the healers.

Hmm. And no, I dont think were struggling with curator at all. We just... do him differently